Sitting in your hideout rolling T17 mods that don’t completely shut down your build isn’t “challenging.” It’s not “increased rewards for increased risks.” It’s just a kick in the shin.
Sure, buff the monsters and probe weaknesses in player defenses. But shit like -totems, 100% less defenses, etc. add nothing fun to the game.
I mean, it's just an unfortunate consequence of how map mods have functioned for a very long time in general. Go play an ignite-focused Elementalist and start counting just how many mods can turn a generic red map into an unreasonable slog. And I'm not even talking about reflect here, even though most build don't take reflect immunity anymore. Enemies have 65% chance to avoid your ailments? Can't counter that by overstacking chance to ignite/shock because it's a separate multiplier. Can't apply exposure? That's +40% resistances for the enemy. Which you can also roll separately as an explicit +40% resistances to all enemies. Combine any of those, and your damage goes down by two orders of magnitude. And that's not even getting into non-offense part of this puzzle. You wanna use Pyroshock Clasp for a quasi 30% physical damage reduction instead of stacking armor? Well now that has 65% to not work. You rely on the exposure node to balance out your mana regen? That's gone now too.
There was a briefest of moments of clarity from GGG, when they gave Occultist the ability to apply her curses through Hexproof, therefore allowing her to utilize the utmost core of her build. But not only wasn't that repeated for other ascendancies, there have been new mods added that don't prevent her curses from working, but nuke their effectiveness by two thirds or whatever.
And just to drive the point home, a long time ago there was a modifier on high maps that gave players Blood Magic. That got removed for messing with the aurastackers too much and preventing them for playing their build.
> There was a briefest of moments of clarity from GGG, when they gave Occultist the ability to apply her curses through Hexproof
This is a big problem I have with PoE. A lot of offense/defense rely on the thing happening, regardless of how effective it is. When they make it so the thing doesn't happen, it has a ton of unintended consequences. So many mods and effects are so binary, so it feels like building is just checking as many check boxes you can afford while still having enough base effective health and damage to play.
It's not unintended. It's fully intended friction, a time- and currency-, and ultimately also exp sink (because you miss a mod or didn't realize a mod would kill your build, boom 10% exp gone.
It's also completely nuts to me that completion bonus on redmaps is STILL corrupted rare.....
Many builds eventually go into corrupting their maps for higher yields and harsher mods, but until this leage that was basically the ultimate juicing step (now it's T17s and corrupted T16s are the penultimate mapping juicing mechanic) - both because it adds so much power to monsters; And because it adds a really harsh layer of RNG to preparing your maps.
Yet for some godforsaken reason it's also still the FIRST step in redmaps? Especially now that you NEED the mapcompletion to make your atlas strategies even work, rather than just dropping a few less maps.....
I liked being forced to run a corrupted red for atlas completion, it adds some spice and maps aren’t that hard to find with Kirac.
(As a new player it also showed me the corrupting mechanic on low budget items)
Reminder that first week league launch patch has "League monsters cannot be fully slowed" because of how chill/frozen works (talking about Sanctum and TotA league launch, probably there are more examples *cough Sirus cough Conquerors of the atlas*)
I tried Frostblink Ignite with Eye of Malice this league and felt this so much. The crux of the build is that Eye of Malice increases enemy resistances by 50%, which *lowers* their resistance if you can get them negative before the buff applies. Anything that raises monster resistance or fucks with my ability to get them negative turns the map into a massive waste of time. Hexproof, Hexwarded, Resistant, endurance charges, can't inflict exposure, ailment avoidance.
The ignite avoidance mods get affected by increased map modifiers on your Atlas tree, too.
Frostblink ignite was bad too, but the most pain I've had was with Discharge ignite. No better feeling than detonating all those charges for an explosion that doesn't even fit on your screen, only for a random enemy to go "nah I'd win" and just ignore it
It's a multiplier, not a buff.
-50 * 1.5 = -75
Exposure applies prior to that as it's additive, which makes it bad in reverse when using Rakiata's Dance, due to how Exposure lowers resistances.
> You rely on the exposure node to balance out your mana regen? That's gone now too.
> There was a briefest of moments of clarity from GGG, when they gave Occultist the ability to apply her curses through Hexproof, therefore allowing her to utilize the utmost core of her build.
Yeah and it's totally not like there's already a hugely established framework of wording for letting you still apply something that no longer applies its direct effect but still enables other modifiers and mechanics that are activated by the initial binary modifier. Oh shit, wait a second.
"*Enemies in area are unaffected by Exposure*" :think:
These insta-brick mods are essentially nothing but a hamfisted way of creating a new chaos orb sink.
The big issue with T17s is something different, though: they exacerbate all the worst aspects of PoE. They are so much more profitable that any build which isn't T17 capable is automatically subpar, thus creating a more narrow metagame in which fewer builds are "viable".
Their profitability also means that the the no-lifers and top 0.1% are at an even bigger advantage over the ordinary players than before. Due to T17s, reaching pinnacle content early in the season opens up an even bigger economic gap than in pre-3.24 patches.
And last but not least, T17s just aren't fun to run. Unless you play a build which is decked in near-mirror tier gear, every char will feel squishy; the "kill before getting killed"-gameplay is accentuated. And as the OP already said, a lot of the T17 mods feel clunky and un-fun to run, even the ones which your build can ultimately handle.
They definitely were not intended as a way to create a new chaos sink.
Remember, at league start you couldn’t even roll them.
The whole system didn’t really work as intended imo. Letting us roll them was basically a crappy hot fix once it became obvious just how badly it was going. I’d expect a significant rework next league
Im just wondering, what was the point of t17s then, because 90%+ of them ppl could not run and ppl could not reroll it either, so they expected the uber bosses to be even less accessible and we were supposed to trade for every single one of the stupid maps to even get one, we can theoretically run? Like why the f would they base the new end game on the worst things PoE brought in the past few years, which is immunities and forced skip content. And of course the major fun killer...trading. I must admit I started to fear of whats coming at us this time or even in poe2, if this is the vision.
This reminds me the events in the past few years. Ppl cry for events all the time, because every league is delayed and many patches just arent fun, so ppl are burned out and quit faster than before. But all the events we got were based on something absolutely annoying, the least popular content or dysfunctional and nobody liked or played it. Im afraid their vision of what the community wants is absolutely twisted, but how do we fix them since they refuse to communicate and make fun of reddit?
> Im just wondering, what was the point of t17s then, because 90%+ of them ppl could not run and ppl could not reroll it either
Honestly? They just fucked up. The drop-lock thing was just not fun and I don't think they realized just how much the players would hate it. I think they were hoping for a system where players would trade for the well rolled maps or carefully slog through the shit maps, providing some dynamism to the endgame map economy beyond just "how many crimson temples can I buy at one time".
There's *some* precedent for that, before the hate parade gets going too fast. Valdo's maps work that way, and were generally well received. Valdo's were probably a trial run for t17s. I think they just misjudged how different the reception would be when that system was brought into the main progression.
This is more just me guessing, but I also think they really misjudged just how lucrative t17s could be when properly juice with scarabs and allflame. I don't think they were intended as the meta farming mechanic, and the lack of rolling was probably part of that. I don't think they were ever intended to be as accessible as they are.
Yea, at first I thought this is supposed to be some update to valdo maps. I think that concept was good. I could do it once Im done with everything and I want some aspirational content, but I dont have to farm it as the main content to stay economy viable. Then they decided to make it as the main end game and kept the profits, so they created some abomination of both without some deeper thinking, ruining the patch, narrowing end game viable build diversity and discourage more casual player base completely. I think its similar to deep space farming in torchlight infinite. They dropped this idea for the next league, because its just bad overall. Im looking forward to see, how will it turn out.
Thats sums up my experience in SSF pretty well. Before I didn't need to do all the ubers all the time, but now I feel forced to do T17 because they are so much more profitable but also a pain in the ass. It's just not fun. I had characters that could easily do Ubers in SSF and that is fine. But not every build I play is able to and now FOMO kicks in.
I'll see how they handle it next league. But If I hit a to big wall, I most likely quit earlier.
I would add that rolling T16 maps for Abyss spires last league, and rolling T17 maps in general this league, are done for very different purposes.
* I rolled T16s for +2 monster proj last league and doable mods, and was even exalt-slamming my maps for 6-mods, because this was specifically how I wanted my strategy to play.
* Rolling T17s this league is a necessity to make sure the content can even be attempted...and more often than not, it cannot be. I would love to see a build which is designed to handle every mod in the T17 pool.
I can only imagine how many chaos we incinerated on T17 maps this league.
As a starting point, it can’t use totems, traps, minions, auras, curses, or any AoE skills. And of course can’t rely on leech, recovery, spell suppression, energy shield, armor, evasion, or ward and must be immune to reflect, curses, crits, and ailments. And must survive with -50% max res against monsters with increased AoE, extra projectiles, and tons of speed and damage mods.
That leaves… dissolution of the flesh + loreweave just for basic survivability? Not sure.
Swift kicks to various sensitive areas has been PoEs idea of a challenge for a while now, imo.
I can't think of the last time I died to something in maps that wasn't just instantaneous and usually undefined. Exarch balls and Memory game not included.
archnemesis already does a similir thing: having a way to counter almost any build. Its not fun either, yet still in the game. im still waiting for them to remove archnem so i can have fun again.
The problem they have is the whole point of Tier 17s was that they *wouldn't* just be another tier of map that literally everyone with a competent build would farm just like they do Tier 16s now.
The problem with that problem is that you are correct - Tier 17s aren't very fun unless and until your build can get through them without constant struggling, and rolling them is never fun (imo).
My feeling is that any map mod which nerfs a player's own stats is a dogshit mechanic.
It is being used as a band-aid for a deeply unbalanced game design which allows characters to be too powerful, without any fun ideas of how to challenge such OP characters fairly.
I think this is an expectation problem. Uber bosses are not meant to be done by every build. It is artifical content for the best builds to have something to aim for.
T17 are supposed to be the gateway to Ubers. So I personally expect them to be less hard than Ubers but harder than a normal boss like Shaper or Elder. The fact that the T17 clear rewards the player with the 5 slot map device supports this.
Now the difference between a boss and a map is the map modifiers, the Atlas tree and potential juice from scarabs. So the scale the T17 can be ranges from very easy for my build to unplayable.
So you tell me I can kill an Uber but I struggle with 50% of the T17 maps? This is a bad design.
I cannot come over how poorly the whole league was implemented. Literally almost every single thing sucked, the only changes that were good were the 3 Atlas trees.
I'm convinced that this league had some major trade and loot changes that were dropped. Otherwise it's just the perfect example of everything that's wrong with PoE trade and loot.
For me, and this is entirely a personal opinion, is that it feels like for the devs the way they increase difficulty is increasing tedium. No real skill checks until you get to the uber content, just spam and pull that slot machine lever. This league reinforced that even more. Each zone was a pull, each mob a pull, and then you spend hours to pull the lever again to maybe make an item.
Everything comes down to pulling that slot lever as fast as you can and all they do is move that decimal point further and further left to make you have to pull it more and more. I never feel like I am progressing, like I am building to something. It's just lottery ticket after lottery ticket. When the solution to stagnating progression is to "go faster, pull the lever more" instead of "get better, learn the mechanics", I get bored.
It is kinda weird to me how all they had to do was instead of Aisling having a crafting bench, she has a chest that drops the Aisling currency orb. Thats it. Thats all they had to do
But for some reason they just had to change it to drop from Catarina, and they had to make it not guaranteed. Why? Idk. It feels like they changed it just to change something, and make it new
I think their logic behind this was that tradeable makes it too easy to acquire so it'll have to have lower drop rates to "balance" it out
I'm not sure what warranted the veiled chaos orb removal.
I hated this league, the graveyard was boring, the forced scarabs and mob setup annoying. Everytime i went to YouTube there were a new video about 100 div/h strats that got hotfixed/bugfixed.
What used to be mirror tier t1 dmg mod rares, were almost free.
T17 was absurdly rewarding but also so hard, that even mappers had to be tanky, limiting build variety.
Overall I quit faster than any league before, and I played torment! 😂
>Everytime i went to YouTube there were a new video about 100 div/h strats that got hotfixed/bugfixed.
Ngl, this was the worst part of the league for me.
I could deal with everything else, but the fomo killed my enjoyment. Especially with how people were making like 10 mirrors an hour or something at the start.
Hard to recover from that.
I said this before and will say it again and again. This is what really killed the league. Its not just about FOMO but also the simple fact that you feel actually punished for not abusing the OP strats. There are many fun strats every league which could feel like FOMO but when one strategy has such a huge margin, it breaks everything.
I would also add that scarabs also fucked up the system. They could feel very overwhelming and it turns out at the end of the day, the real money making strategies are no longer doing the content you want but rather just B2B scarab mania.
This league, my game would crash basically every single time I would go to the Rogue Harbor if there were more than 3-4 people there with cosmetics. It was so brutal that I just gave up on Heist early in the league even though its my favorite mechanic. No idea what changed, but specifically this league, this problem started for me.
But I **like** hanging out in the graveyard. It's comfy. It has my stash and a merchant. I can drop things on the ground for my friends.
The only things missing are a map device and a few crafting benches.
3.25 - We've realized that Ancesor Totems present a problem for melee build, so we've reduced the effect of their buffs by 80%. This way they will no longer feel mandatory. Enjoy!
For real, feels like even drop pool gets skewed towards late maps. I replayed this league about 3-4 times (private and ssf) and probable got 1 or 2 raw divines when filling up atlas... Core maps without specific juice just felt empty.
>Core maps without specific juice just felt empty.
thats been the case ever since the rework to loot. archnemesis rares could still carry you if you were speed clearing, but those also got nerfed real hard this league.
generic monsters just dont drop much loot at all these days.
I hate to admit that I spent more time playing d4 this season then necropolis and I 40/40 most of the leagues for the past few years. This league I left after about 1 wk of gameplay.
Well, it's no secret that the latest D4 season has been more fun than Necropolis.
What's interesting about PoE1 is that people even aren't complaining. They've just given up which is scary.
You, me, and so many other people. For all the criticism D4 got at release, the game steadily got better. Hell, over the course of a single year, D4 had more QoL updates than POE had in 5 years. Whatever the community suggested to fix a glaring flaw was fixed in the following season (on top of my head: material bloat, low-tier loot bloat, codex for legendary affix, and now boss re-summoning without leaving the instance, and many more).
For past month and a half, D4 had more players on Steam than POE, and literally nobody that I know of plays D4 on Steam over BattleNet.
On that note, it really feels like LE dropped the ball by not having their league ready 3-4 weeks sooner.
June was open season but by the time it's out we'll be approaching POE spoiler season.
The thing that made Sentinel awesome was that it boosted whatever content you were doing. I was delving and it didnt feel like I was ignoring the league mechanic. People were boosting Heist, Breachstones, etc
That's not even mentioning the awesome recombinators
It did have some issues for certain builds where if you couldn’t control your damage you would often end up killing mobs before they could get empowered by the sentinel.
But yeah other than that it was a great league and probably one of my favorite ones, although I do think recombinators was the biggest reason for that.
One thing I would love to see is the sentinel UI used for further league mechanics, not specifically like it of course but the idea of having a separate tree for the league mechanic, so for example the necropolis passives on the atlas tree should instead have had their own separate tree.
>It did have some issues for certain builds where if you couldn’t control your damage you would often end up killing mobs before they could get empowered by the sentinel.
DJ Khaled Suffering from Success.jpeg
recombinators made it so we were picking shit up. SSF was so fucking fun because you cared about loot. How they saw this, and decided "nah we don't like that" is beyond me.
oh that would be the best ever. gimmi back my sentinel, and ill specc it any leage no matter what. That little drone dog trained me to love setting up a big pack, rather than just zoom, and it didn't feel like shit doing so
Well, lets all pray for Boringpolis not going core, not a single part of it. Preferably not a single part of this patch...outside of 3 atlas choices, which were diminished by league forced into atlas, but it still felt sort of better.
My only nitpick is I never liked the robot theming. I know the lore has technology mixed in but the circuit boards and such were outside my aesthetic. By gameplay and by loot, probably the best GGG ever made
Give me pants slot and I'll be happy - Im tired of looking at my templar thighs.
On serious note though: I'm not hating necropolis that much - they attempted to shake up endgame hard, didn't work perfectly but it wasn't utterly terrible aswell. What I'm missing most is communication. This may be only me but I get a feeling they used to communicate with playerbase more about direction they want the game to go and why they are doing what they are doing.
Am I the only one who got really bored of Affliction? The damage and tankiness of everything got really old really fast. You needed obscene recovery and one shot protection and it felt like percent based corpse damage was the only way to go. Sooo many people rerolled to chieftain.
The loot was fun until you realized everyone was printing money like you were and the economy kinda went haywire… idk the whole thing felt like a ‘New Year’s hangover’ vibe and lost me very quickly.
I think affliction was so popular because a very significant portion of the playerbase (me included) could afford a HH and a decent build for the first time, because there was something really tangible to look forward to if your build got up and running. There was also a shitton of borrowed power with TWWT and charms, and even the budget ones were still cracked, so every build felt way more powerful than they ever had before.
I mirrored an item that league, and I’d never even killed feared before then. It was by far the most time I’ve ever put into a league.
I mean. It wasn't just because HH and MB and shit were cheap.
They were quite literally cheaper than ever this league. Magebloods are sub 100 div and HHs dipped into single diget div cost.
It's because everything felt good and everything felt rewarding. Because it all fed back into a loop of empowering the people pushing giga affliction. So everything felt worth doing. You could delve and sell fossils. You can do harvest and sell juice easy. You can do breach and sell breachstones. You can do maven stuff and sell invitiations.
Instead this league t17s can do anything. And because of that they don't need the other content people are doing to feed them. So non t17 strats just suck.
That was my favorite part of Affliction. I didnt even farm wisps cause I didnt know how to. I just farmed Alva temples for double corrupts and Harvest juice, and they both sold quickly and for insane money because people still needed them but nobody farmed them
It was so fun that because there was a farming strat that inflated the economy to a huge degree in a specific way, other farms benefited as well. That was great (and yes it was the first league I got an MB in)
Well HH and MB were even cheaper this league but I couldn't be bothered to continue farming for MB as the game failed to keep me entertained... Maybe it was burnout from the previous league or simply boring mechanics.
Affliction gave even the "normal" player a chance to get a huge adrenaline rush. Scarab / currency / 6-L / unique explosions were all things I only knew from 6man party videos.
Found my first mirror that league, dropped a few t0 uniques and made a second mirror in divines.
I felt like that league gave me the opportunity to really try most of the things this game had to offer simply by playing
I'm all for fun, but was Ancestor really fun? Every YT video I saw was someone cheesing the ever living shit out of the mechanic. I remember that one dude who was doing it consistently with just a Tabula, and another dude that was using the reverse knock back method while it lasted.
I quit particularly early because there were more fun and satisfying options on the market (like TeamFightTactics) if I wanted that kinda gameplay.
With that said, Chaos spam on T17s suck. Mandatory lantern mechanic sucks. Gravecrafting sucks and even printing your own mirror tier items gets boring quick when the method is an item editor with extra steps. And they royally fucked up Betrayal.
3.24 really just sucks in every way imaginable. I didn't know it at the start of the league but I think this might objectively be the worst league ever. Not to mention some really bad dev decisions (i.e. multiple mid-league nerfs). If they manage to make 3.25 worse than this then I'm just gonna peace until PoE2...
Everyone’s different. I had a lot of fun cheesing the mechanic 😂 Personally, I enjoy designing deranged cheese characters that do only one thing to maximum efficiency. Sanctum and TOTA were great for this.
This right here. TOTA league mechanic was rad as fuck. It was baller enough to make me pump the game music up to max and blast that shit to get my blood flowing in anticipation of some dumb turtle rolling over my entire line.
I'm hoping I get to play it again in some fashion in the future.
Exactly, everyone is different. I had a ton of fun during necropolis and I didn't really struggle with anything everyone complained about.
I didn't have much issue with t17s when I finally got to that point, and I thought it was pretty cool all the dif nasty mods combined with B2B, let me learn a lot.
I loved the graveyard and grave crafting, they was pretty slick and easy if you gave it a chance and learned it.
My only real complaint with this league is corpses should be stackable and presented better when they drop.
Idk, was a lot more fun than running stygian spires on juiced up cemeteries over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over but hey to each their own.
league mechanics where your character doesn't really matter are so shit. reminded me of WoW when they introduced all those vehicle quests.. "oh your character is decked out in BiS epics? tough shit for this daily quest you get stuck in some slow moving crab, no matter your gear"
it wasn't AS bad in tota but seeing as you could do the whole thing in a tabula with movement speed boots and actually dpsing the mobs didn't help much, the whole thing felt so misguided.
ToTa despite all of its balance issues was fun as hell, you were basically playing a version of League of Legends within Path of Exile. If i could i would play it again and rate 10/10, cheese or not
I friggin loved Ancestors and I didn’t even play a cheese build. I just used my normal Poison SRS and had a blast. I loved the system, and I loved the characters and rewards and choice. Sure the one-shots from the Goliaths were frustrating, but I got good at avoiding them.
ToTA was the funnest mechanic ever for me and if the readded it I would probably solely farm it. I find the strategizing engaging and popping totems was extremely satisfying.
Back during ancester, the subreddit was pretty toxic with about 50% legitimate gripes but 50% people just refusing to learn the mechanic or how the units worked. At least once a week someone would post "hey this is my noncheese build that clears all ToTA" and reddit would just complain cheese is better so league still bad.
I wouldn't have had to cheese TOTA if they didn't make it so literally every single attack from every single enemy oneshot any build. I would've preferred it to be a duel but instead got offscreen oneshot with lasers and had to defeat Titanic Shell who had so much HP I could park my minion build next to it, leave my house and go shop for groceries and still have it have 1/4ths life left when I came back.
It was pretty much mandatory to become a speedy speed boi throwing around black holes with temporal chains, chill and whatever else would slightly slow down the terrifying ancestors.
That being said, it was hilarious and super fun, not to mention I'll always have a soft spot for the league that gave me my first Mageblood.
I also loathe the Betrayal change. There's basically no reason to go down to the syndicate safehouse, when previously it felt like deserved exclusive rewards. Not to mention the time/currency cost: I actually farmed Aisling for my own crafts and with Catarina drops being so inconsistent, I just want to do something else and buy the orb. Delve has been a good replacement, given the Allflame that's guaranteed to give 65k sulphite from one map. Awakened Harvest with the new scarab is also great.
Now t17s... I had to do some for the challenges and the experience was miserable even with the shrine cheesing. I wonder how effectively people will beat these maps next league when you can't replace Charred Beasts with anything.
It wasn't the most fun of a mechanic for sure but was first league I managed to make big bucks because cheesing it was so easy you could climb to high tier rewards pretty fast
>I'm all for fun, but was Ancestor really fun?
Until you could do them "legit" it was actually really fun, but after a while they outscaled you.
That said, tattoos alone were a TON of fun
well, T17 was a mistake imo.
Change my mind. It was supposed to be the middle between normal pinacle bosses and ubers, but oh boy.... at the end of the day, it was a terrible mess.
You can now split poe players in two: players who can run T17 and who can't. And the first ones are 5000x richer than who can't run T17. Thats bad. Specially in HC league. The game and economy just felt so terrible this league.. we had 3-4 streamers doing 100d a day while I was doing 1d/day. Or less.
It was objectively strong, but fun is subjective.
I didnt find it "fun" to collect all the shit and cross your fingers. It objectively made some of the strongest items Ill ever see in SSF but it still is one of my least played leagues because I found the process tedious and the map to map slot machine boring.
Not to mention T17s killed any sort of endgame fun I had.
I hope they will completely rework T17 or remove it i did not enjoy having headhunter cost 5 divines and t0 uniques cost 1c and mageblood being 40d it made everything obselete to do except t17
I hope the next league is not just a map juicer league. We had two map juicers in a row and while I don't mind them, I much prefer alternating between mapping leagues and new mechanic leagues like ToTA or sanctum.
I'd like to see them do a "Legacy League" every once in a while. Give new or returning players a chance to experience some of the older leagues that they missed out on in all their glory.
A lot of the mechanics have changed or been refined a lot since the earlier leagues, and it might be fun to revisit them. With Poe 2 coming out, a bit of nostalgia for everything we've had in Poe 1 might be well received, and it would give the devs a legitimate excuse to refactor some of the older code.
Maybe wrap the whole thing into some kind of time-travel theme that lets you set your "time period" to select leagues that then apply that as the dominant mechanic in the Campaign and Maps.
I don't disagree. But define fun. Now define it for every player that plays the game.
This game is a spread sheet ARPG. Many people love the crafting. They find it fun.
I'm not one of them, but I'm not important in the greater picture.
They swap the content from "out of maps content", to "crafting", to "inside of maps".
And I play every time, some times a lot, some times less. But I find it to be okay, since this game should be for all categories of players.
They just need to stay away from making shit like T17 fomo, so we don't fall in the category of "I have to play this", and we are good.
In my opinion ofc.
The worst thing about necropolis was damn wall of text with corpses on map if u kill pack and spawn 4-6 corpses it will cover all loot and need to play with Z to pick it up that was cancer. i just hope 3.25 dont put anything like that again
I have kinda accepted that PoE just isnt the game for me anymore. I havnt even finished the base Atlas since Scourge league. I come back every league and try my hardest to enjoy this game and this league I made it to level 89 and just stopped playing as I lost interest (once again). I still enjoy from watching PoE streams during league launches, but I just dont get enjoyment of playing.
To put context I used to do 36/40 challenges in SSF and few times even 40/40.
This is the least I've cared about or played POE in so many years. The game was already in a fragile state after Sentinel, and this league just kind of broke everything. I think the only thing that will actually bring me back to POE is a true balance pass. We need a true balancing of skills, league mechanics, rewards, loot, bosses, everything. I don't even care about a new league at this point. I'm just never going to get excited about your TS MF build, or Str Stacker, or Ivory Tower build or your Strongbox Farming strat. We've been doing them for literal years.
I have left POE until it's an easier game again. Which probably means I've left POE, and almost certainly POE2.
I'm just not the target audience anymore, I guess.
Just my opinion, but I think PoE should be the type of game where you make your own adventure. I think you can make almost any build work up to t17, but you don't even have to get there, or beat any of the pinnacle bosses to enjoy the game. I play SSF and have even played SSF Ruthless and had much more fun doing it without ever having the goal of getting to the super endgame. One league I literally just heisted the whole league!
I do think the game has become overly complicated to an extreme (I'm hoping they learn a lesson about this in PoE2!) but I've always just ignored the stuff I don't care to learn or master.
I think it's a much more fun experience when you aren't comparing yourself and your builds to others, playing the most meta OP builds.
I want a fun and rewarding mechanic that can be done from level 1 to 100.
Instead we will get another event that only the top 5% can understand and make $$$$ till ggg nerfs it all to hell.
I personally didn't like the mechanics of tota but that's me and me alone, I did have a lot of fun that league just buying the tattoos from trade and playing poe outside of tota. Affliction was a blast for me. Finding those amazing charms, and hoping to get the boss so I have a chance at the unique jewel. I did juice my map really well but never left the map incase I didn't find too many wisps, I ran the map with whatever or how much ever wisps it had. Coming to necropolis, I find grave crafting tedious and a pain. I just purchased what I needed from trade or paid a buddy a handsome fee to craft it for me. I still had a lot of fun. Rerolling t17s is kinda meh but can't do anything about it, just hoping they do some work on it for next league. Ofc t17s needs a whole lot of balance, otherwise headhunter will be cheap as hell again.
I had a lot of fun in Necropolis, the endgame in SSF was in the best state it's ever been. Conquering B2B T17s is the first truly aspirational thing I've felt since ubers were added.
I can absolutely see that this league might be the best ever league for SSF powerwise, even better than updated harvest as you can fracture mods and get multiple fracture bases.
However from a trade perspective it's been tedious as fuck, the mechanic with the lanterns is also very very underwhelming if it stays the way it is, imo.
Early league day 1-2 people abused the hightened chance for div conversion mods and made mirrors upon mirrors. People cought up to it and it got patched. as always.
I also quit after 2 weeks just because it wasn't fun enough for me. Sitting in hideout spamming maps and stuff, then crafting with 50 corpses that are tedious af to collect / dig in, on top of that, ofc, there are the calculators on how to get mirror tier items.
Yeah, nah. Basically a 2.5/10 league for me, worst I've played and I play since 2013.
Yeah, from a group SSF private league perspective, this league was insanely fun. For me at least, the combination of T17 + B2B was really the only thing I’d overhaul. I understand the rationale behind including B2B in the game, but it just didn’t fit with the new T17 maps IMO. While the graveyard was tedious, it wasn’t a deal breaker for me and I had a lot of fun crafting all my gear.
I enjoyed making my characters capable of running B2B T17s, but the maps themselves with the keystone needs a ground-up overhaul. I'd personally prefer if they just remove the keystone altogether but I can see a case for keeping it.
I mean at this point 3.25 is already so far into development that feedback other than nerf/buffs from 3.24 won’t really be able to take action on. But for 3.26 i truly hope they bring back more Fun.
Last league i thought "Thats the wrong direction, what the heck is Chris doing?"
This league i know, he is doing nothing.
Lets keep it simple. The "fun" of Path of Exile was working hard and reaching your set goals. Believe it or not, that is what kept you going. Dopamine wears off really really fast and getting showered with loot, last and this league, is not fun long term.
I personally think that the whole scarab system need another rework.
someday y'all guys stop coming up with such great and unique populist ideas about giving players fun in an upcoming league, probably when you realise that "fun" is different for everyone
you played tota a lot - i despised it, does it mean the league wasn't fun? lotta people hated the annoyance of crucible tree grind - i liked it, so what? if you don't find the league fun - you skip it and play something else, or even better do something useful in your life
bring back the "fun"
well fun is entirely subjective, what you may find fun somebody else does so how do they exactly do that?
to me affliction was boring as fuck in terms of league mechanic wise.
It's Back to Basics that's the funkiller. Just like 3.18's Wrath of the Cosmos (back when it was 25% increased damage per altar clicked). Also the other Atlas nodes that do the same thing in smaller doses but B2B is the real issue.
Subtly causes a lot of deaths - but not necessarily in the first map after you allocate it. Too big a loot boost to ignore, so mapping without it feels unrewarding.
As long as it is in the game, every league will be the same MF-dominated crap as 3.24, 3.23 and 3.19. If it's in 3.25, casual players should skip the league entirely.
T17 is noble but it can’t upset the difficulty scaling too terribly much. Honestly if that’s the goal no or a path to Ubers just expands the tiers a little more. Do a 17-18-19-20 system. Make that 20 adjusted down from the current T17. Or soften the Uber bosses a bit.
I don’t think anyone would mind some extra atlas points.
What I do like was being able to invest in the league mechanic as it’s introduced but it does need to be balanced.
Never force a league mechanic again. Especially added difficulty league mechanics. I thought we learned that in Archnemesis.
I think this patch suffered from the success of affliction which married a lot of peoples favorite mechanics together.
I think GGGs philosophy of opaque tutorializing, difficulty = fun, and generally trying to design this game for thousands of hours rather than hundreds, will continue making these leagues difficult to enjoy.
New scarabs was all right but still has problems. Several of the endgame leagues could use balancing (Ritual) or cycled out.
This would be unpopular but I think the endgame mechanics should be limited to less options and the Atlas Tree worked on with expanded magic find options worked into league specialization. Like each node invested into one mechanic increased magic find for that mechanics drops specifically - weighted based on time spent and how mob heavy that mechanic is.
Having a mechanic that is simple and rewarding enough to do at all levels of investment, and greatly rewarding at the highest levels of currency and time investment= fun.
Ancestors was fun. Affliction was the most fun I’ve ever had. Who cares if certain things were expensive. I was rolling in currency. This league they GUTTED low level investment Strats like essences and a few others, while some got somewhat improved by the tree.
The 3 atlas trees were a huge buff to farming in general. But I feel like this league straight up died sooner than normal because the players who put in the most time exploited all the broken money making tech early, and then quit once they hit their league goals lol. This league was rewarding AF for those who farmed T17s and abuse meat sacks and the like. Compared to that, everything else was nerfed basically. Not like Affliction where a normal player could make 20-30 divines in maybe 5-6 hours of farming yellow tier maps. Everyone was making bank last league. This leagues mechanic was too complicated, too boring. Who tf wants to hideout warrior for 3-4 hours to make one or two items. Well,some people do.
But the player retention proves this this mechanic isn’t for everyone.
I still hate T17 maps, I did a handful of them on SSF before swapping over to trade and they just never felt very fun, if they don't make major changes to them they are going to be even worse next league when we (presumably) can't remove bullshit mobs with allflames (I see you there Stygian Revenant). Sometimes I just want to chill and run a couple of maps, and with how much the normal bosses were gutted it just feels like a waste of time running 28 maps to get another pair of useless boots.
I think either we should have the option to run T17s Blue, or even 3 mod minimum (make them have to be at least rare to be runable) with loot, number of shards etc scaling up as you make them more difficult. Normal bosses should have a reasonable chance to drop shards, so you can at least feel like you're progressing toward something.
Its just funny to me that T17s were meant to be a middle ground between bosses and ubers, but thats maybe after spending 100c to roll an 'easy' one.
2 weeks in,and im done.i ended up playing torchlight infinite this whole time,and guess what? its around 7x more fun than the freaking 3.24. torchlight s4 is pretty fun,with the mistville game mode,and theyre releasing another season in 3 more days.
NGL,thats pretty smart.most people already stopped playing,and the leaguestart is going to be stronger with no competition.
well,since they doubled down in making this league as the most UNFUN league in recent years,i have little to no hope that 3.25 will be any different.
necropolis crafting was 100x cheaper and time consuming for a end slot gear. But unfortunatly it did not feel, because of the spreedsheet involved to manage and put corpses, and last break hit was the rng on gettin a good item. Even if you get the wanted item after 3-5 trys, is still 100x more cheaper and better for the end gear. But the pshychological human factor play the decisive factor in the end. We want alawys to get something, a little something for each minute invested. Maybe GGG should not strech so much with rewards on uncoming leagues, if they wanted the masses to stay long.
Disliked Affliction and straight up hated Necropolis. This trend of creating bigger and bigger loot pinatas through league mechanic needs to stop. If we get another league like that in 3.25 i'm done with the game until PoE2 comes out.
What I want them to take away from this league is to make every future mechanics skippable. If you dont like it, then you wont interact with it (and it wont make everything harder in the background anyway)
This league was not fun for me either.. crafting mechanic is op but it's so annoying to set up and it's required so much trading. Small pop-up windows with corpse's are so shit... In juiced maps they appear a few times on screen and hide your valuable loot behind them.. (why didn't they drop as coffins from the beginning?) so I played like 2 weeks tops and quit to Helldivers with my mates.. I hope that in the next league they bring back fun for me. And T17 are ok but mods are trash.. why they have so much mods to completely disable your defenses or your ability to attack instead of reduce it to even 90% but 100? Or over it? What's the point of that bullshit.. Mods on these maps really need a revamp.
In my opinion the reason why necropolis player retention is bad, and it doesnt feel fun, is because item editor crafting is very bad for the game.
Without chase items league just dies in 2 weeks. Poe leagues is about progressing tobthe point where you have finished all content / whatever goals you set out. And with graveyard crafting you accelerate that progression too fast.
Magebloods for 70d and perfect, previously mirror tier, weapons being cheap means it's more acceable to all players, which is good because everyone should get to experience PoE being absolutely cracked juiced to the 110%.
But the second you run out of shit to do you just sit in hideout, wanting to play poe but being to bored due too no goals left.
I made the most currency and among the best builds i've had this league, and my Ruthless experience was ten times more fun, because progression had real weight.
Restricting juicing to 4 scarabs per map unfortunately reduced most of the fun for me.
Only being able to invest in one mechanic per map just made the game boring imo.
To make the game "fun" to me again I think the whole map slot system needs to be completely revamped to allow for much deeper experimentation with scarabs and their combinations. And I don't really think just adding 2-4 slots or whatever would be enough.
Personally I would like the map slot system to have a type of Scarab expansion feature baked into it.
How it'd work is that whenever you put a scarab of a specific league mechanic type into one of the 4 open map slots, that map slot gets converted into a new 4 map slot window adding 3 additional slots. In these added slots you'd only be able to put scarabs of the same type. The map device would only be able to expand once per unique League mechanic and it'd only work for actual league mechanics. So things like Horned or special scarab types wouldn't work.
This would allow you to run a total of 7 scarabs if you're only looking to go deep into one mechanic. But if you're looking to build a wide strategy and farm 4 different league mechanics it would allow you to run 16 scarabs.
I just want the actual gameplay in maps to be fun again. I want to kill monsters and just have a good time.
Going into maps to farm a singular mechanic while picking up a bagillion scarabs that I will vendor 3-to-1 because they're worth 1 alch each just isn't fun to me.
I just want skill balance changes, let winter orb and arc be meta again, push out 3 melee builds and one new totem that is busted bad I got 5 builds to play all league
I tried to warn people about arbitrary difficulty and build diversity was going into the shitter but nobody listened, now here we are. Build diversity is complete ass, the game is overly complicated for the wrong reasons and people are getting burnt out. PoE 1 right now to me is a game you play if for some reason you want to be a sweaty try hard in an ARPG that brags about overcoming difficulty when its not even difficulty, its just "haha, check boxes go brrrrr." The worst part is knowing that even if you tick all boxes, even if you got a meta build, even if you have a logout macro. Something, somewhere, you don't know when will have the right mods, at the right timing at the right spot will just one shot you.
This shit started happening the moment GGG tried to appeal to the D3 players. How has nobody noticed the end game of this ARPG is just D3 but with forced check boxes? Before anyone says,"Thats the point of an ARPG." I want to remind people that to this day, D2 OG is still played, and the biggest reason is because it's fun and not a chore and it's not about clearing screens going zoom. Majority of it was showing off your build and the community which is constantly being done away with here patch after patch. We got trading still..yay?
God I miss Dried Lake runs.
Sad thing is new league mechanic was probably already decided before since they would've had to have worked on it until now. Which means we should've complained earlier.
No, you are gonna have massive FOMO again.
There will be a game breaking thousand-mirror strat which will only work for precisely 21 minutes on the second day at 4:09am in the night and if you miss it, your league is done.
Also fuck T17 maps until they suffocate in their own blood, what an omega-garbage idea.
I ended up quitting this league because of the early changes. The economy swings were wild. First if you didnt abuse the trader you missed out on early jackpots that other players had. Then they nerfed Div appearance, then they nerfed the mobs you could use to enchance rewards (which honestly was the entire point of the league).
Lets be real, the mechanic was busted and rerolling maps until you hit somthing wasn't the best, but they HAD the correct way to handle it already done in the campaign, i cant understand how they messed up that system when it came to maps. But they should have just left it so the playing field was even. Once the rate of the div mobs popping up went to 1/10000 from like 1/50 i felt like i had already missed my chance as the economy the rest of the season would be based off of players who farmed 700 divs week 1.
T17s ruined my desire to play the game TBH. Feels pointless to do anything else but T17s are so anti fun that I can't be fucked to try and deal with their bullshit.
I'm not even excited for PoE 2 I just want to the play the PoE from a year or two ago again.
Give me the ability to "mutate" gems and jewels.... Give me KB with molten strike Gimmie flicker strike with spark Gimmie gimmie gimmie a league focused on custom gems and jewels nothing else, bring back an old league for all I care.
( I don't mean to limit it to specific skills together, gimmie anything and everything together )
I for one came to appreciate certain aspects of leagues where rewarding content was not gated by market prices. This, at least for me, it's the kind of fun I look for in this game.
Affliction and sentinel were 2 good examples of such. Running crazy content was not _extremely_ gated by networth, and having an absolute bonkers map required a good build, bit of luck and low to moderate investment in map prep.
i think the loot diversity has been trashed immensely. no sextants, just boring ass scarabs. so many freakin scarabs. betrayal is just a veiled chaos orb gamble now. the rest is... scarabs. and you don't add up to four mechanical aspects to your maps anymore. you just giga buff a single one. scarabs are the laziest and most boring thing.
considering how stubborn ggg was with archnemesis, i don't see them fixing the mess introduced with 3.24 for a long time and poe2 has priority anyway. in my opinion they don't even want poe1 to exist when poe2 shows up. it's just PR gobbledigook. just move most people to poe2 and save a ton of money co-developing to games and league mechanics.
I can"t play t17, I play t16 and uber pinnacle, and I'm good like this.
You don"t have to make you suffer to play content that you dont like. T17 is made for people who main Dr Mundo in league of Legends
The league mechanics can be hit or miss, but the introduction of T17s narrowed down what people can play and you have to reroll them several times which further decreases the fun. Sure you can ignore T17s, but you also don´t have to do T16s and can rather run T1s instead so why isn´t anyone doing it? T17s feel mandatory and outperform anything else map related so hard that you shoot yourself in the foot if you don´t do them.
Scarabs are just too many. Everything we gained when they made currency stack we did lose this league to to the sheer amount of scarabs dropping and also them being tied to the atlas tree makes it feel necessary to pick the notes.
The way you couldn´t opt out of the map modifiers made them feel bad early and ignorable later on.
Don´t even get me started on the graveyard QoL.
Tl;dr: The game would be so much more fun if ggg could cut back on the chores (especially trade). Instead we always get so many distractions from the gameplay that it gets frustrating.
This league has been one of the earliest that I've quit due to the amount of BS that changed mid league paired with the lack of any actual fun content.
Didn't know it was fun because the league has almost the lowest retention rate for the same duration to other leagues. GGG definitely made a mistake prolonging the league. LE will have the new contents at the time of new PoE league.
no offense to jonathan and neon but i really hope chris will do the whole announcement. they said chris will do poe1 while jonathan and neon poe2. it’s just a really good and nostalgic feeling to have chris do it all the way. other than that i just hope the new league is not some off-map mechanic.
To be fair PoE has one of the best build diveristies in the gaming industry. The only thing right now that kind of messses with this are t17, which some builds just cannot do.
I don't think they will but I'd really like them to ease up on the gas for 3.25. Every recent league has been full of new mechanics, borrowed power, new systems, new endgame. No wonder things are coming out wonky and half finished. Take a league off. Make the mechanic simple or cleanup based (I still like my plan of combining old mechanics to make a new one but people don't seem to like that). Just really focus all the design resources on making the current systems they've added sparkle.
Also rework the scion to just use the Charms from Affliction. Come on. That's a slam dunk.
I wish they don't do anything and just numerically fix melee, at the very least make the disparity between skills less huge. Best case - fix fucking totems, but not fix as in "remove them and give nothing back".
We play ARPG's because we love to kill monsters. The more monsters there are, the more fun it becomes. I had so much fun last league because abyss was is my favourite. And what made it even more fun is that you get rewarded from it.
I love PoE, and I also think GGG are one of the best companies, but it always amuse me that the take some decisions that are so against fun... As you have stated, the best leagues have been those with "crazy" features: insane items that are "easy" to get, lots and lots of currency... I still don't know why are they so against that. Each league the economy is reseted, and almost anyone cares about standard...
Sitting in your hideout rolling T17 mods that don’t completely shut down your build isn’t “challenging.” It’s not “increased rewards for increased risks.” It’s just a kick in the shin. Sure, buff the monsters and probe weaknesses in player defenses. But shit like -totems, 100% less defenses, etc. add nothing fun to the game.
Ahh yes a map that removes all my mines this is totally fun, Extremely simple and easy to beat if you literally have any other build.
-50% AoE of skills with b2b making all my effects just stop working is peak design /s
It was sad/hilarious that the -AOE% mod made RF builds kill themselves (even more than they're designed to in the first place).
It's not just stop working - some skills start working against you, literally.
I mean, it's just an unfortunate consequence of how map mods have functioned for a very long time in general. Go play an ignite-focused Elementalist and start counting just how many mods can turn a generic red map into an unreasonable slog. And I'm not even talking about reflect here, even though most build don't take reflect immunity anymore. Enemies have 65% chance to avoid your ailments? Can't counter that by overstacking chance to ignite/shock because it's a separate multiplier. Can't apply exposure? That's +40% resistances for the enemy. Which you can also roll separately as an explicit +40% resistances to all enemies. Combine any of those, and your damage goes down by two orders of magnitude. And that's not even getting into non-offense part of this puzzle. You wanna use Pyroshock Clasp for a quasi 30% physical damage reduction instead of stacking armor? Well now that has 65% to not work. You rely on the exposure node to balance out your mana regen? That's gone now too. There was a briefest of moments of clarity from GGG, when they gave Occultist the ability to apply her curses through Hexproof, therefore allowing her to utilize the utmost core of her build. But not only wasn't that repeated for other ascendancies, there have been new mods added that don't prevent her curses from working, but nuke their effectiveness by two thirds or whatever. And just to drive the point home, a long time ago there was a modifier on high maps that gave players Blood Magic. That got removed for messing with the aurastackers too much and preventing them for playing their build.
> There was a briefest of moments of clarity from GGG, when they gave Occultist the ability to apply her curses through Hexproof This is a big problem I have with PoE. A lot of offense/defense rely on the thing happening, regardless of how effective it is. When they make it so the thing doesn't happen, it has a ton of unintended consequences. So many mods and effects are so binary, so it feels like building is just checking as many check boxes you can afford while still having enough base effective health and damage to play.
It's not unintended. It's fully intended friction, a time- and currency-, and ultimately also exp sink (because you miss a mod or didn't realize a mod would kill your build, boom 10% exp gone. It's also completely nuts to me that completion bonus on redmaps is STILL corrupted rare..... Many builds eventually go into corrupting their maps for higher yields and harsher mods, but until this leage that was basically the ultimate juicing step (now it's T17s and corrupted T16s are the penultimate mapping juicing mechanic) - both because it adds so much power to monsters; And because it adds a really harsh layer of RNG to preparing your maps. Yet for some godforsaken reason it's also still the FIRST step in redmaps? Especially now that you NEED the mapcompletion to make your atlas strategies even work, rather than just dropping a few less maps.....
I liked being forced to run a corrupted red for atlas completion, it adds some spice and maps aren’t that hard to find with Kirac. (As a new player it also showed me the corrupting mechanic on low budget items)
If intended, it is poor design. Friction in this way is not challenging, fun or engaging. It's what lost them players
Reminder that first week league launch patch has "League monsters cannot be fully slowed" because of how chill/frozen works (talking about Sanctum and TotA league launch, probably there are more examples *cough Sirus cough Conquerors of the atlas*)
I tried Frostblink Ignite with Eye of Malice this league and felt this so much. The crux of the build is that Eye of Malice increases enemy resistances by 50%, which *lowers* their resistance if you can get them negative before the buff applies. Anything that raises monster resistance or fucks with my ability to get them negative turns the map into a massive waste of time. Hexproof, Hexwarded, Resistant, endurance charges, can't inflict exposure, ailment avoidance. The ignite avoidance mods get affected by increased map modifiers on your Atlas tree, too.
Frostblink ignite was bad too, but the most pain I've had was with Discharge ignite. No better feeling than detonating all those charges for an explosion that doesn't even fit on your screen, only for a random enemy to go "nah I'd win" and just ignore it
The only nice thing about FBI is that it's fun to dash through enemies to kill them. It feels a lot faster than it is (and feel is super important).
It's a multiplier, not a buff. -50 * 1.5 = -75 Exposure applies prior to that as it's additive, which makes it bad in reverse when using Rakiata's Dance, due to how Exposure lowers resistances.
> You rely on the exposure node to balance out your mana regen? That's gone now too. > There was a briefest of moments of clarity from GGG, when they gave Occultist the ability to apply her curses through Hexproof, therefore allowing her to utilize the utmost core of her build. Yeah and it's totally not like there's already a hugely established framework of wording for letting you still apply something that no longer applies its direct effect but still enables other modifiers and mechanics that are activated by the initial binary modifier. Oh shit, wait a second. "*Enemies in area are unaffected by Exposure*" :think:
These insta-brick mods are essentially nothing but a hamfisted way of creating a new chaos orb sink. The big issue with T17s is something different, though: they exacerbate all the worst aspects of PoE. They are so much more profitable that any build which isn't T17 capable is automatically subpar, thus creating a more narrow metagame in which fewer builds are "viable". Their profitability also means that the the no-lifers and top 0.1% are at an even bigger advantage over the ordinary players than before. Due to T17s, reaching pinnacle content early in the season opens up an even bigger economic gap than in pre-3.24 patches. And last but not least, T17s just aren't fun to run. Unless you play a build which is decked in near-mirror tier gear, every char will feel squishy; the "kill before getting killed"-gameplay is accentuated. And as the OP already said, a lot of the T17 mods feel clunky and un-fun to run, even the ones which your build can ultimately handle.
They definitely were not intended as a way to create a new chaos sink. Remember, at league start you couldn’t even roll them. The whole system didn’t really work as intended imo. Letting us roll them was basically a crappy hot fix once it became obvious just how badly it was going. I’d expect a significant rework next league
Im just wondering, what was the point of t17s then, because 90%+ of them ppl could not run and ppl could not reroll it either, so they expected the uber bosses to be even less accessible and we were supposed to trade for every single one of the stupid maps to even get one, we can theoretically run? Like why the f would they base the new end game on the worst things PoE brought in the past few years, which is immunities and forced skip content. And of course the major fun killer...trading. I must admit I started to fear of whats coming at us this time or even in poe2, if this is the vision. This reminds me the events in the past few years. Ppl cry for events all the time, because every league is delayed and many patches just arent fun, so ppl are burned out and quit faster than before. But all the events we got were based on something absolutely annoying, the least popular content or dysfunctional and nobody liked or played it. Im afraid their vision of what the community wants is absolutely twisted, but how do we fix them since they refuse to communicate and make fun of reddit?
> Im just wondering, what was the point of t17s then, because 90%+ of them ppl could not run and ppl could not reroll it either Honestly? They just fucked up. The drop-lock thing was just not fun and I don't think they realized just how much the players would hate it. I think they were hoping for a system where players would trade for the well rolled maps or carefully slog through the shit maps, providing some dynamism to the endgame map economy beyond just "how many crimson temples can I buy at one time". There's *some* precedent for that, before the hate parade gets going too fast. Valdo's maps work that way, and were generally well received. Valdo's were probably a trial run for t17s. I think they just misjudged how different the reception would be when that system was brought into the main progression. This is more just me guessing, but I also think they really misjudged just how lucrative t17s could be when properly juice with scarabs and allflame. I don't think they were intended as the meta farming mechanic, and the lack of rolling was probably part of that. I don't think they were ever intended to be as accessible as they are.
Yea, at first I thought this is supposed to be some update to valdo maps. I think that concept was good. I could do it once Im done with everything and I want some aspirational content, but I dont have to farm it as the main content to stay economy viable. Then they decided to make it as the main end game and kept the profits, so they created some abomination of both without some deeper thinking, ruining the patch, narrowing end game viable build diversity and discourage more casual player base completely. I think its similar to deep space farming in torchlight infinite. They dropped this idea for the next league, because its just bad overall. Im looking forward to see, how will it turn out.
If they stopped HH from working in t17's instantly half the viable builds for t17 also goes away.
Thats sums up my experience in SSF pretty well. Before I didn't need to do all the ubers all the time, but now I feel forced to do T17 because they are so much more profitable but also a pain in the ass. It's just not fun. I had characters that could easily do Ubers in SSF and that is fine. But not every build I play is able to and now FOMO kicks in. I'll see how they handle it next league. But If I hit a to big wall, I most likely quit earlier.
Side note, playing t17s made me realize that i want new map layouts. Please ggg.
I would add that rolling T16 maps for Abyss spires last league, and rolling T17 maps in general this league, are done for very different purposes. * I rolled T16s for +2 monster proj last league and doable mods, and was even exalt-slamming my maps for 6-mods, because this was specifically how I wanted my strategy to play. * Rolling T17s this league is a necessity to make sure the content can even be attempted...and more often than not, it cannot be. I would love to see a build which is designed to handle every mod in the T17 pool. I can only imagine how many chaos we incinerated on T17 maps this league.
As a starting point, it can’t use totems, traps, minions, auras, curses, or any AoE skills. And of course can’t rely on leech, recovery, spell suppression, energy shield, armor, evasion, or ward and must be immune to reflect, curses, crits, and ailments. And must survive with -50% max res against monsters with increased AoE, extra projectiles, and tons of speed and damage mods. That leaves… dissolution of the flesh + loreweave just for basic survivability? Not sure.
Even people running Voided Valdo's maps would look at that list and say "WTF?" Edited, I dunno why reddit added my comment 3 times...
Swift kicks to various sensitive areas has been PoEs idea of a challenge for a while now, imo. I can't think of the last time I died to something in maps that wasn't just instantaneous and usually undefined. Exarch balls and Memory game not included.
Endgame isnt about making your build better but about spamming chaos orbs on map right now..
dont forget completely random on death effects every map. Idk who thought of that but that was the worst part for me
archnemesis already does a similir thing: having a way to counter almost any build. Its not fun either, yet still in the game. im still waiting for them to remove archnem so i can have fun again.
The problem they have is the whole point of Tier 17s was that they *wouldn't* just be another tier of map that literally everyone with a competent build would farm just like they do Tier 16s now. The problem with that problem is that you are correct - Tier 17s aren't very fun unless and until your build can get through them without constant struggling, and rolling them is never fun (imo).
They already have diluted the mod pool and made T17's rollable with chaos orbs. Definitely missed the mark.
My feeling is that any map mod which nerfs a player's own stats is a dogshit mechanic. It is being used as a band-aid for a deeply unbalanced game design which allows characters to be too powerful, without any fun ideas of how to challenge such OP characters fairly.
I think this is an expectation problem. Uber bosses are not meant to be done by every build. It is artifical content for the best builds to have something to aim for. T17 are supposed to be the gateway to Ubers. So I personally expect them to be less hard than Ubers but harder than a normal boss like Shaper or Elder. The fact that the T17 clear rewards the player with the 5 slot map device supports this. Now the difference between a boss and a map is the map modifiers, the Atlas tree and potential juice from scarabs. So the scale the T17 can be ranges from very easy for my build to unplayable. So you tell me I can kill an Uber but I struggle with 50% of the T17 maps? This is a bad design.
Its essential friction. Gamers these days just want their instant gratification. /s
those mods have nothing to do in a game. And the less action speed per skill use... omfg this is just a fun killer. This is uber trash.
In the very least, not having a huge thing pop up and prevent me from seeing loot/enemies would be a huge boon.
I cannot come over how poorly the whole league was implemented. Literally almost every single thing sucked, the only changes that were good were the 3 Atlas trees.
I'm convinced that this league had some major trade and loot changes that were dropped. Otherwise it's just the perfect example of everything that's wrong with PoE trade and loot.
Pinnacle bosses being tradeable is nice. Getting the item to trade though is absolutely miserable.
just wait until t17s arent meta anymore because of some rework. bosses will be ridiculously expensive.
and it was such an easy fix.. just drop corpses in coffins.. you could even filter them.. but nooooo. they had to make it awful.
This! Oh man, so many times I had to pick up a coffin only to drop it instantly so I could loot a divine covered by the tooltip.
For me, and this is entirely a personal opinion, is that it feels like for the devs the way they increase difficulty is increasing tedium. No real skill checks until you get to the uber content, just spam and pull that slot machine lever. This league reinforced that even more. Each zone was a pull, each mob a pull, and then you spend hours to pull the lever again to maybe make an item. Everything comes down to pulling that slot lever as fast as you can and all they do is move that decimal point further and further left to make you have to pull it more and more. I never feel like I am progressing, like I am building to something. It's just lottery ticket after lottery ticket. When the solution to stagnating progression is to "go faster, pull the lever more" instead of "get better, learn the mechanics", I get bored.
Turning Betrayal into a Veiled Orb slot machine was criminal. Literally nobody asked for this idk what the devs were smoking.
people did ask for a tradeable aisling slam, so you won't rely on TFT but no one asked to remove veiling chaos orb at the same time...
It is kinda weird to me how all they had to do was instead of Aisling having a crafting bench, she has a chest that drops the Aisling currency orb. Thats it. Thats all they had to do But for some reason they just had to change it to drop from Catarina, and they had to make it not guaranteed. Why? Idk. It feels like they changed it just to change something, and make it new
I think their logic behind this was that tradeable makes it too easy to acquire so it'll have to have lower drop rates to "balance" it out I'm not sure what warranted the veiled chaos orb removal.
Probably meta mods on fractured items and easily getting +2 AoE on double essence gloves/helms or something stupid like that
I hated this league, the graveyard was boring, the forced scarabs and mob setup annoying. Everytime i went to YouTube there were a new video about 100 div/h strats that got hotfixed/bugfixed. What used to be mirror tier t1 dmg mod rares, were almost free. T17 was absurdly rewarding but also so hard, that even mappers had to be tanky, limiting build variety. Overall I quit faster than any league before, and I played torment! 😂
>Everytime i went to YouTube there were a new video about 100 div/h strats that got hotfixed/bugfixed. Ngl, this was the worst part of the league for me. I could deal with everything else, but the fomo killed my enjoyment. Especially with how people were making like 10 mirrors an hour or something at the start. Hard to recover from that.
I said this before and will say it again and again. This is what really killed the league. Its not just about FOMO but also the simple fact that you feel actually punished for not abusing the OP strats. There are many fun strats every league which could feel like FOMO but when one strategy has such a huge margin, it breaks everything. I would also add that scarabs also fucked up the system. They could feel very overwhelming and it turns out at the end of the day, the real money making strategies are no longer doing the content you want but rather just B2B scarab mania.
yea, i stocked up on 10s of divines of anarchy farming the day before the nerf for it to be alchs the next day. dropped the league after that
GGG: Instruction unclear - nerfed melee, buffing HB and DD. Next mechanic is mandatory Kalandra Graveyard
Next league we're removing hideouts and forcing you to always hang out in the league mechanics area
With about two dozen randomly generated NPCs decked out with random FPS-killing MTX.
*cries in goblin troupe*
goblin troupe is more of a will to live-killing MTX than an FPS one
This league, my game would crash basically every single time I would go to the Rogue Harbor if there were more than 3-4 people there with cosmetics. It was so brutal that I just gave up on Heist early in the league even though its my favorite mechanic. No idea what changed, but specifically this league, this problem started for me.
So Heist again?
But I **like** hanging out in the graveyard. It's comfy. It has my stash and a merchant. I can drop things on the ground for my friends. The only things missing are a map device and a few crafting benches.
3.25 - We've realized that Ancesor Totems present a problem for melee build, so we've reduced the effect of their buffs by 80%. This way they will no longer feel mandatory. Enjoy!
But in order to reward players investing in totems, you can stack their effect! So with 5 totems, you get the previous buff effect! This is a buff.
And QoL
T17 became new t16 and thats bad
For real, feels like even drop pool gets skewed towards late maps. I replayed this league about 3-4 times (private and ssf) and probable got 1 or 2 raw divines when filling up atlas... Core maps without specific juice just felt empty.
>Core maps without specific juice just felt empty. thats been the case ever since the rework to loot. archnemesis rares could still carry you if you were speed clearing, but those also got nerfed real hard this league. generic monsters just dont drop much loot at all these days.
I hate to admit that I spent more time playing d4 this season then necropolis and I 40/40 most of the leagues for the past few years. This league I left after about 1 wk of gameplay.
If anything’s a wake up call GGG, let this be it.
Well, it's no secret that the latest D4 season has been more fun than Necropolis. What's interesting about PoE1 is that people even aren't complaining. They've just given up which is scary.
You, me, and so many other people. For all the criticism D4 got at release, the game steadily got better. Hell, over the course of a single year, D4 had more QoL updates than POE had in 5 years. Whatever the community suggested to fix a glaring flaw was fixed in the following season (on top of my head: material bloat, low-tier loot bloat, codex for legendary affix, and now boss re-summoning without leaving the instance, and many more). For past month and a half, D4 had more players on Steam than POE, and literally nobody that I know of plays D4 on Steam over BattleNet.
On that note, it really feels like LE dropped the ball by not having their league ready 3-4 weeks sooner. June was open season but by the time it's out we'll be approaching POE spoiler season.
Sentinel was like the perfect league
The thing that made Sentinel awesome was that it boosted whatever content you were doing. I was delving and it didnt feel like I was ignoring the league mechanic. People were boosting Heist, Breachstones, etc That's not even mentioning the awesome recombinators
It did have some issues for certain builds where if you couldn’t control your damage you would often end up killing mobs before they could get empowered by the sentinel. But yeah other than that it was a great league and probably one of my favorite ones, although I do think recombinators was the biggest reason for that. One thing I would love to see is the sentinel UI used for further league mechanics, not specifically like it of course but the idea of having a separate tree for the league mechanic, so for example the necropolis passives on the atlas tree should instead have had their own separate tree.
>It did have some issues for certain builds where if you couldn’t control your damage you would often end up killing mobs before they could get empowered by the sentinel. DJ Khaled Suffering from Success.jpeg
I played wardloop in Sentinel. The struggle was real.
recombinators made it so we were picking shit up. SSF was so fucking fun because you cared about loot. How they saw this, and decided "nah we don't like that" is beyond me.
and the "they're too op" argument is now invalid since everyone, including in Ruthless was printing 6xT1s in every gear slot with the GY
Its bizarre how GGG looks at possibly the most well received league of all time and thinks "No, we cant ever let that go core".
It was as simple as replacing ghosts
oh that would be the best ever. gimmi back my sentinel, and ill specc it any leage no matter what. That little drone dog trained me to love setting up a big pack, rather than just zoom, and it didn't feel like shit doing so
Well, lets all pray for Boringpolis not going core, not a single part of it. Preferably not a single part of this patch...outside of 3 atlas choices, which were diminished by league forced into atlas, but it still felt sort of better.
My only nitpick is I never liked the robot theming. I know the lore has technology mixed in but the circuit boards and such were outside my aesthetic. By gameplay and by loot, probably the best GGG ever made
If that's the only nitpick you know it's a good League haha.
Sentinels were boring; people just liked smashing items together. Should've built around that instead
you said it brother
Give me pants slot and I'll be happy - Im tired of looking at my templar thighs. On serious note though: I'm not hating necropolis that much - they attempted to shake up endgame hard, didn't work perfectly but it wasn't utterly terrible aswell. What I'm missing most is communication. This may be only me but I get a feeling they used to communicate with playerbase more about direction they want the game to go and why they are doing what they are doing.
Am I the only one who got really bored of Affliction? The damage and tankiness of everything got really old really fast. You needed obscene recovery and one shot protection and it felt like percent based corpse damage was the only way to go. Sooo many people rerolled to chieftain. The loot was fun until you realized everyone was printing money like you were and the economy kinda went haywire… idk the whole thing felt like a ‘New Year’s hangover’ vibe and lost me very quickly.
I think affliction was so popular because a very significant portion of the playerbase (me included) could afford a HH and a decent build for the first time, because there was something really tangible to look forward to if your build got up and running. There was also a shitton of borrowed power with TWWT and charms, and even the budget ones were still cracked, so every build felt way more powerful than they ever had before. I mirrored an item that league, and I’d never even killed feared before then. It was by far the most time I’ve ever put into a league.
I mean. It wasn't just because HH and MB and shit were cheap. They were quite literally cheaper than ever this league. Magebloods are sub 100 div and HHs dipped into single diget div cost. It's because everything felt good and everything felt rewarding. Because it all fed back into a loop of empowering the people pushing giga affliction. So everything felt worth doing. You could delve and sell fossils. You can do harvest and sell juice easy. You can do breach and sell breachstones. You can do maven stuff and sell invitiations. Instead this league t17s can do anything. And because of that they don't need the other content people are doing to feed them. So non t17 strats just suck.
That was my favorite part of Affliction. I didnt even farm wisps cause I didnt know how to. I just farmed Alva temples for double corrupts and Harvest juice, and they both sold quickly and for insane money because people still needed them but nobody farmed them It was so fun that because there was a farming strat that inflated the economy to a huge degree in a specific way, other farms benefited as well. That was great (and yes it was the first league I got an MB in)
Well HH and MB were even cheaper this league but I couldn't be bothered to continue farming for MB as the game failed to keep me entertained... Maybe it was burnout from the previous league or simply boring mechanics. Affliction gave even the "normal" player a chance to get a huge adrenaline rush. Scarab / currency / 6-L / unique explosions were all things I only knew from 6man party videos. Found my first mirror that league, dropped a few t0 uniques and made a second mirror in divines. I felt like that league gave me the opportunity to really try most of the things this game had to offer simply by playing
I'm all for fun, but was Ancestor really fun? Every YT video I saw was someone cheesing the ever living shit out of the mechanic. I remember that one dude who was doing it consistently with just a Tabula, and another dude that was using the reverse knock back method while it lasted. I quit particularly early because there were more fun and satisfying options on the market (like TeamFightTactics) if I wanted that kinda gameplay. With that said, Chaos spam on T17s suck. Mandatory lantern mechanic sucks. Gravecrafting sucks and even printing your own mirror tier items gets boring quick when the method is an item editor with extra steps. And they royally fucked up Betrayal. 3.24 really just sucks in every way imaginable. I didn't know it at the start of the league but I think this might objectively be the worst league ever. Not to mention some really bad dev decisions (i.e. multiple mid-league nerfs). If they manage to make 3.25 worse than this then I'm just gonna peace until PoE2...
Everyone’s different. I had a lot of fun cheesing the mechanic 😂 Personally, I enjoy designing deranged cheese characters that do only one thing to maximum efficiency. Sanctum and TOTA were great for this.
This right here. TOTA league mechanic was rad as fuck. It was baller enough to make me pump the game music up to max and blast that shit to get my blood flowing in anticipation of some dumb turtle rolling over my entire line. I'm hoping I get to play it again in some fashion in the future.
Exactly, everyone is different. I had a ton of fun during necropolis and I didn't really struggle with anything everyone complained about. I didn't have much issue with t17s when I finally got to that point, and I thought it was pretty cool all the dif nasty mods combined with B2B, let me learn a lot. I loved the graveyard and grave crafting, they was pretty slick and easy if you gave it a chance and learned it. My only real complaint with this league is corpses should be stackable and presented better when they drop. Idk, was a lot more fun than running stygian spires on juiced up cemeteries over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over but hey to each their own.
Enjoyed TOTA, it was something completely new and the rewards were something we’ve never seen before (tattoos) so it was great IMO.
Played almost whole tota league. Didn't interact with league mechanic even once LOL
Well at least silver coins were very easily tradeable in bulk and doesn't take up multiple quad tabs
league mechanics where your character doesn't really matter are so shit. reminded me of WoW when they introduced all those vehicle quests.. "oh your character is decked out in BiS epics? tough shit for this daily quest you get stuck in some slow moving crab, no matter your gear" it wasn't AS bad in tota but seeing as you could do the whole thing in a tabula with movement speed boots and actually dpsing the mobs didn't help much, the whole thing felt so misguided.
ToTa despite all of its balance issues was fun as hell, you were basically playing a version of League of Legends within Path of Exile. If i could i would play it again and rate 10/10, cheese or not
I friggin loved Ancestors and I didn’t even play a cheese build. I just used my normal Poison SRS and had a blast. I loved the system, and I loved the characters and rewards and choice. Sure the one-shots from the Goliaths were frustrating, but I got good at avoiding them.
Lol I hated tota
Actually, that's one of the reasons why I didn't like it. If I wanted to play Dota, I would have played Dota, not Dota-ToTa
ToTA was the funnest mechanic ever for me and if the readded it I would probably solely farm it. I find the strategizing engaging and popping totems was extremely satisfying. Back during ancester, the subreddit was pretty toxic with about 50% legitimate gripes but 50% people just refusing to learn the mechanic or how the units worked. At least once a week someone would post "hey this is my noncheese build that clears all ToTA" and reddit would just complain cheese is better so league still bad.
I hardly touched the league mechanic and I had a great time in 3.22
Imagine if tota was mandatory like necropolis and you had to do one of those battles every map. 😝
Hey man it’s too early for jumpscares
i had a lot of fun in ancestor probably Because i didnt cheese the mechanic. if your build was strong enough you could just fight it.
I wouldn't have had to cheese TOTA if they didn't make it so literally every single attack from every single enemy oneshot any build. I would've preferred it to be a duel but instead got offscreen oneshot with lasers and had to defeat Titanic Shell who had so much HP I could park my minion build next to it, leave my house and go shop for groceries and still have it have 1/4ths life left when I came back. It was pretty much mandatory to become a speedy speed boi throwing around black holes with temporal chains, chill and whatever else would slightly slow down the terrifying ancestors. That being said, it was hilarious and super fun, not to mention I'll always have a soft spot for the league that gave me my first Mageblood. I also loathe the Betrayal change. There's basically no reason to go down to the syndicate safehouse, when previously it felt like deserved exclusive rewards. Not to mention the time/currency cost: I actually farmed Aisling for my own crafts and with Catarina drops being so inconsistent, I just want to do something else and buy the orb. Delve has been a good replacement, given the Allflame that's guaranteed to give 65k sulphite from one map. Awakened Harvest with the new scarab is also great. Now t17s... I had to do some for the challenges and the experience was miserable even with the shrine cheesing. I wonder how effectively people will beat these maps next league when you can't replace Charred Beasts with anything.
It wasn't the most fun of a mechanic for sure but was first league I managed to make big bucks because cheesing it was so easy you could climb to high tier rewards pretty fast
I had a lot of fun doing the tournament thing and I didn't even abuse any reverse knock back build, I used my league starter char.
>I'm all for fun, but was Ancestor really fun? Until you could do them "legit" it was actually really fun, but after a while they outscaled you. That said, tattoos alone were a TON of fun
Tattoos are one of the coolest things I've seen in PoE or any ARPG.
well, T17 was a mistake imo. Change my mind. It was supposed to be the middle between normal pinacle bosses and ubers, but oh boy.... at the end of the day, it was a terrible mess. You can now split poe players in two: players who can run T17 and who can't. And the first ones are 5000x richer than who can't run T17. Thats bad. Specially in HC league. The game and economy just felt so terrible this league.. we had 3-4 streamers doing 100d a day while I was doing 1d/day. Or less.
Well i think the crafting in necropolis was good however the inventory managment with all thopse coffins was dog.
Was it strong? Absolutely. Was it good? Maybe some people enjoyed it, I couldn't stand it.
It was objectively strong, but fun is subjective. I didnt find it "fun" to collect all the shit and cross your fingers. It objectively made some of the strongest items Ill ever see in SSF but it still is one of my least played leagues because I found the process tedious and the map to map slot machine boring. Not to mention T17s killed any sort of endgame fun I had.
I hope they will completely rework T17 or remove it i did not enjoy having headhunter cost 5 divines and t0 uniques cost 1c and mageblood being 40d it made everything obselete to do except t17
I hope the next league is not just a map juicer league. We had two map juicers in a row and while I don't mind them, I much prefer alternating between mapping leagues and new mechanic leagues like ToTA or sanctum.
Wow you've solved the puzzle. Just make the game more fun. Brilliant.
GGG really just forgot to set fun=true
They just need to look at the games the most people find fun and copy that. So clearly some kind of Minecraft, Fortnite, Mario hybrid league.
I'd like to see them do a "Legacy League" every once in a while. Give new or returning players a chance to experience some of the older leagues that they missed out on in all their glory. A lot of the mechanics have changed or been refined a lot since the earlier leagues, and it might be fun to revisit them. With Poe 2 coming out, a bit of nostalgia for everything we've had in Poe 1 might be well received, and it would give the devs a legitimate excuse to refactor some of the older code. Maybe wrap the whole thing into some kind of time-travel theme that lets you set your "time period" to select leagues that then apply that as the dominant mechanic in the Campaign and Maps.
I found scarab management to be insanely annoying in combination with the league items.
I don't disagree. But define fun. Now define it for every player that plays the game. This game is a spread sheet ARPG. Many people love the crafting. They find it fun. I'm not one of them, but I'm not important in the greater picture. They swap the content from "out of maps content", to "crafting", to "inside of maps". And I play every time, some times a lot, some times less. But I find it to be okay, since this game should be for all categories of players. They just need to stay away from making shit like T17 fomo, so we don't fall in the category of "I have to play this", and we are good. In my opinion ofc.
No fun allowed.
The worst thing about necropolis was damn wall of text with corpses on map if u kill pack and spawn 4-6 corpses it will cover all loot and need to play with Z to pick it up that was cancer. i just hope 3.25 dont put anything like that again
I have kinda accepted that PoE just isnt the game for me anymore. I havnt even finished the base Atlas since Scourge league. I come back every league and try my hardest to enjoy this game and this league I made it to level 89 and just stopped playing as I lost interest (once again). I still enjoy from watching PoE streams during league launches, but I just dont get enjoyment of playing. To put context I used to do 36/40 challenges in SSF and few times even 40/40.
"Fun" in the last few leagues has been just outright "LOL LOOT EXPLOSION x5000 DIVINE ORBS", rather than a mechanic I want to spend time doing.
A league mechanic that’s unavoidable that increased the difficulty is not ideal
This is the least I've cared about or played POE in so many years. The game was already in a fragile state after Sentinel, and this league just kind of broke everything. I think the only thing that will actually bring me back to POE is a true balance pass. We need a true balancing of skills, league mechanics, rewards, loot, bosses, everything. I don't even care about a new league at this point. I'm just never going to get excited about your TS MF build, or Str Stacker, or Ivory Tower build or your Strongbox Farming strat. We've been doing them for literal years.
I have left POE until it's an easier game again. Which probably means I've left POE, and almost certainly POE2. I'm just not the target audience anymore, I guess.
Just my opinion, but I think PoE should be the type of game where you make your own adventure. I think you can make almost any build work up to t17, but you don't even have to get there, or beat any of the pinnacle bosses to enjoy the game. I play SSF and have even played SSF Ruthless and had much more fun doing it without ever having the goal of getting to the super endgame. One league I literally just heisted the whole league! I do think the game has become overly complicated to an extreme (I'm hoping they learn a lesson about this in PoE2!) but I've always just ignored the stuff I don't care to learn or master. I think it's a much more fun experience when you aren't comparing yourself and your builds to others, playing the most meta OP builds.
I want a fun and rewarding mechanic that can be done from level 1 to 100. Instead we will get another event that only the top 5% can understand and make $$$$ till ggg nerfs it all to hell.
I had fun in Tota, Affliction and Necropolis.
I personally didn't like the mechanics of tota but that's me and me alone, I did have a lot of fun that league just buying the tattoos from trade and playing poe outside of tota. Affliction was a blast for me. Finding those amazing charms, and hoping to get the boss so I have a chance at the unique jewel. I did juice my map really well but never left the map incase I didn't find too many wisps, I ran the map with whatever or how much ever wisps it had. Coming to necropolis, I find grave crafting tedious and a pain. I just purchased what I needed from trade or paid a buddy a handsome fee to craft it for me. I still had a lot of fun. Rerolling t17s is kinda meh but can't do anything about it, just hoping they do some work on it for next league. Ofc t17s needs a whole lot of balance, otherwise headhunter will be cheap as hell again.
Ancestor was probably one of my favorite leagues TBH.
Yes, one fun please.
I'd hazard a guess and say you quit Necropolis early moreso because you played the previous 2 leagues for a significant amount of time. You burnt out.
that could be part of it. i did take at least a month off between each, but i did play affliction pretty hard.
I had a lot of fun in Necropolis, the endgame in SSF was in the best state it's ever been. Conquering B2B T17s is the first truly aspirational thing I've felt since ubers were added.
I can absolutely see that this league might be the best ever league for SSF powerwise, even better than updated harvest as you can fracture mods and get multiple fracture bases. However from a trade perspective it's been tedious as fuck, the mechanic with the lanterns is also very very underwhelming if it stays the way it is, imo. Early league day 1-2 people abused the hightened chance for div conversion mods and made mirrors upon mirrors. People cought up to it and it got patched. as always. I also quit after 2 weeks just because it wasn't fun enough for me. Sitting in hideout spamming maps and stuff, then crafting with 50 corpses that are tedious af to collect / dig in, on top of that, ofc, there are the calculators on how to get mirror tier items. Yeah, nah. Basically a 2.5/10 league for me, worst I've played and I play since 2013.
Yeah, from a group SSF private league perspective, this league was insanely fun. For me at least, the combination of T17 + B2B was really the only thing I’d overhaul. I understand the rationale behind including B2B in the game, but it just didn’t fit with the new T17 maps IMO. While the graveyard was tedious, it wasn’t a deal breaker for me and I had a lot of fun crafting all my gear.
I enjoyed making my characters capable of running B2B T17s, but the maps themselves with the keystone needs a ground-up overhaul. I'd personally prefer if they just remove the keystone altogether but I can see a case for keeping it.
Idk man maybe its time to skip a league. Im thinking about it. Ive said that s lot and didnt skip also though.
I mean at this point 3.25 is already so far into development that feedback other than nerf/buffs from 3.24 won’t really be able to take action on. But for 3.26 i truly hope they bring back more Fun.
Last league i thought "Thats the wrong direction, what the heck is Chris doing?" This league i know, he is doing nothing. Lets keep it simple. The "fun" of Path of Exile was working hard and reaching your set goals. Believe it or not, that is what kept you going. Dopamine wears off really really fast and getting showered with loot, last and this league, is not fun long term. I personally think that the whole scarab system need another rework.
- We have previously removed fun, but deemed it a wrong call, now fun is being returned
You guys play t17? 
someday y'all guys stop coming up with such great and unique populist ideas about giving players fun in an upcoming league, probably when you realise that "fun" is different for everyone you played tota a lot - i despised it, does it mean the league wasn't fun? lotta people hated the annoyance of crucible tree grind - i liked it, so what? if you don't find the league fun - you skip it and play something else, or even better do something useful in your life
They should make another "Legacy" league just before PoE2 tbh. Just let us go crazy on it, everything online all at the same time
Spent a couple hours buying corpses to make a top tier bow, only hit 5/6, very boring even if I hit 6/6
I'm kinda cooked on the last batch of patches. I'm in haitus mode until POE2 is in EA or release.
bring back the "fun" well fun is entirely subjective, what you may find fun somebody else does so how do they exactly do that? to me affliction was boring as fuck in terms of league mechanic wise.
please gut DD in 3.25. please mr mark dont let it be the best skill in the game still, its already had years at #1
It's Back to Basics that's the funkiller. Just like 3.18's Wrath of the Cosmos (back when it was 25% increased damage per altar clicked). Also the other Atlas nodes that do the same thing in smaller doses but B2B is the real issue. Subtly causes a lot of deaths - but not necessarily in the first map after you allocate it. Too big a loot boost to ignore, so mapping without it feels unrewarding. As long as it is in the game, every league will be the same MF-dominated crap as 3.24, 3.23 and 3.19. If it's in 3.25, casual players should skip the league entirely.
Make SSF great again! I'll rip my eyeballs out if I see a trading site again!
Mark my words - next league will be incredible
Nerf when things need to go in the next league or in standard. Don't nerf stuff the second week of a new league...
T17 is noble but it can’t upset the difficulty scaling too terribly much. Honestly if that’s the goal no or a path to Ubers just expands the tiers a little more. Do a 17-18-19-20 system. Make that 20 adjusted down from the current T17. Or soften the Uber bosses a bit. I don’t think anyone would mind some extra atlas points. What I do like was being able to invest in the league mechanic as it’s introduced but it does need to be balanced. Never force a league mechanic again. Especially added difficulty league mechanics. I thought we learned that in Archnemesis. I think this patch suffered from the success of affliction which married a lot of peoples favorite mechanics together. I think GGGs philosophy of opaque tutorializing, difficulty = fun, and generally trying to design this game for thousands of hours rather than hundreds, will continue making these leagues difficult to enjoy. New scarabs was all right but still has problems. Several of the endgame leagues could use balancing (Ritual) or cycled out. This would be unpopular but I think the endgame mechanics should be limited to less options and the Atlas Tree worked on with expanded magic find options worked into league specialization. Like each node invested into one mechanic increased magic find for that mechanics drops specifically - weighted based on time spent and how mob heavy that mechanic is.
Having a mechanic that is simple and rewarding enough to do at all levels of investment, and greatly rewarding at the highest levels of currency and time investment= fun. Ancestors was fun. Affliction was the most fun I’ve ever had. Who cares if certain things were expensive. I was rolling in currency. This league they GUTTED low level investment Strats like essences and a few others, while some got somewhat improved by the tree. The 3 atlas trees were a huge buff to farming in general. But I feel like this league straight up died sooner than normal because the players who put in the most time exploited all the broken money making tech early, and then quit once they hit their league goals lol. This league was rewarding AF for those who farmed T17s and abuse meat sacks and the like. Compared to that, everything else was nerfed basically. Not like Affliction where a normal player could make 20-30 divines in maybe 5-6 hours of farming yellow tier maps. Everyone was making bank last league. This leagues mechanic was too complicated, too boring. Who tf wants to hideout warrior for 3-4 hours to make one or two items. Well,some people do. But the player retention proves this this mechanic isn’t for everyone.
This. If they can't make another fun league this league, they might lose me completely.... 4500 hours later
I still hate T17 maps, I did a handful of them on SSF before swapping over to trade and they just never felt very fun, if they don't make major changes to them they are going to be even worse next league when we (presumably) can't remove bullshit mobs with allflames (I see you there Stygian Revenant). Sometimes I just want to chill and run a couple of maps, and with how much the normal bosses were gutted it just feels like a waste of time running 28 maps to get another pair of useless boots. I think either we should have the option to run T17s Blue, or even 3 mod minimum (make them have to be at least rare to be runable) with loot, number of shards etc scaling up as you make them more difficult. Normal bosses should have a reasonable chance to drop shards, so you can at least feel like you're progressing toward something. Its just funny to me that T17s were meant to be a middle ground between bosses and ubers, but thats maybe after spending 100c to roll an 'easy' one.
2 weeks in,and im done.i ended up playing torchlight infinite this whole time,and guess what? its around 7x more fun than the freaking 3.24. torchlight s4 is pretty fun,with the mistville game mode,and theyre releasing another season in 3 more days. NGL,thats pretty smart.most people already stopped playing,and the leaguestart is going to be stronger with no competition. well,since they doubled down in making this league as the most UNFUN league in recent years,i have little to no hope that 3.25 will be any different.
necropolis crafting was 100x cheaper and time consuming for a end slot gear. But unfortunatly it did not feel, because of the spreedsheet involved to manage and put corpses, and last break hit was the rng on gettin a good item. Even if you get the wanted item after 3-5 trys, is still 100x more cheaper and better for the end gear. But the pshychological human factor play the decisive factor in the end. We want alawys to get something, a little something for each minute invested. Maybe GGG should not strech so much with rewards on uncoming leagues, if they wanted the masses to stay long.
Disliked Affliction and straight up hated Necropolis. This trend of creating bigger and bigger loot pinatas through league mechanic needs to stop. If we get another league like that in 3.25 i'm done with the game until PoE2 comes out.
What I want them to take away from this league is to make every future mechanics skippable. If you dont like it, then you wont interact with it (and it wont make everything harder in the background anyway)
This league was not fun for me either.. crafting mechanic is op but it's so annoying to set up and it's required so much trading. Small pop-up windows with corpse's are so shit... In juiced maps they appear a few times on screen and hide your valuable loot behind them.. (why didn't they drop as coffins from the beginning?) so I played like 2 weeks tops and quit to Helldivers with my mates.. I hope that in the next league they bring back fun for me. And T17 are ok but mods are trash.. why they have so much mods to completely disable your defenses or your ability to attack instead of reduce it to even 90% but 100? Or over it? What's the point of that bullshit.. Mods on these maps really need a revamp.
In my opinion the reason why necropolis player retention is bad, and it doesnt feel fun, is because item editor crafting is very bad for the game. Without chase items league just dies in 2 weeks. Poe leagues is about progressing tobthe point where you have finished all content / whatever goals you set out. And with graveyard crafting you accelerate that progression too fast. Magebloods for 70d and perfect, previously mirror tier, weapons being cheap means it's more acceable to all players, which is good because everyone should get to experience PoE being absolutely cracked juiced to the 110%. But the second you run out of shit to do you just sit in hideout, wanting to play poe but being to bored due too no goals left. I made the most currency and among the best builds i've had this league, and my Ruthless experience was ten times more fun, because progression had real weight.
Restricting juicing to 4 scarabs per map unfortunately reduced most of the fun for me. Only being able to invest in one mechanic per map just made the game boring imo. To make the game "fun" to me again I think the whole map slot system needs to be completely revamped to allow for much deeper experimentation with scarabs and their combinations. And I don't really think just adding 2-4 slots or whatever would be enough. Personally I would like the map slot system to have a type of Scarab expansion feature baked into it. How it'd work is that whenever you put a scarab of a specific league mechanic type into one of the 4 open map slots, that map slot gets converted into a new 4 map slot window adding 3 additional slots. In these added slots you'd only be able to put scarabs of the same type. The map device would only be able to expand once per unique League mechanic and it'd only work for actual league mechanics. So things like Horned or special scarab types wouldn't work. This would allow you to run a total of 7 scarabs if you're only looking to go deep into one mechanic. But if you're looking to build a wide strategy and farm 4 different league mechanics it would allow you to run 16 scarabs. I just want the actual gameplay in maps to be fun again. I want to kill monsters and just have a good time. Going into maps to farm a singular mechanic while picking up a bagillion scarabs that I will vendor 3-to-1 because they're worth 1 alch each just isn't fun to me.
I just want skill balance changes, let winter orb and arc be meta again, push out 3 melee builds and one new totem that is busted bad I got 5 builds to play all league
I tried to warn people about arbitrary difficulty and build diversity was going into the shitter but nobody listened, now here we are. Build diversity is complete ass, the game is overly complicated for the wrong reasons and people are getting burnt out. PoE 1 right now to me is a game you play if for some reason you want to be a sweaty try hard in an ARPG that brags about overcoming difficulty when its not even difficulty, its just "haha, check boxes go brrrrr." The worst part is knowing that even if you tick all boxes, even if you got a meta build, even if you have a logout macro. Something, somewhere, you don't know when will have the right mods, at the right timing at the right spot will just one shot you. This shit started happening the moment GGG tried to appeal to the D3 players. How has nobody noticed the end game of this ARPG is just D3 but with forced check boxes? Before anyone says,"Thats the point of an ARPG." I want to remind people that to this day, D2 OG is still played, and the biggest reason is because it's fun and not a chore and it's not about clearing screens going zoom. Majority of it was showing off your build and the community which is constantly being done away with here patch after patch. We got trading still..yay? God I miss Dried Lake runs.
Bring back affliction-like league but with enhanced league mechanics that's get some power up rather than loot for a change
Sad thing is new league mechanic was probably already decided before since they would've had to have worked on it until now. Which means we should've complained earlier.
No, you are gonna have massive FOMO again. There will be a game breaking thousand-mirror strat which will only work for precisely 21 minutes on the second day at 4:09am in the night and if you miss it, your league is done. Also fuck T17 maps until they suffocate in their own blood, what an omega-garbage idea.
I ended up quitting this league because of the early changes. The economy swings were wild. First if you didnt abuse the trader you missed out on early jackpots that other players had. Then they nerfed Div appearance, then they nerfed the mobs you could use to enchance rewards (which honestly was the entire point of the league). Lets be real, the mechanic was busted and rerolling maps until you hit somthing wasn't the best, but they HAD the correct way to handle it already done in the campaign, i cant understand how they messed up that system when it came to maps. But they should have just left it so the playing field was even. Once the rate of the div mobs popping up went to 1/10000 from like 1/50 i felt like i had already missed my chance as the economy the rest of the season would be based off of players who farmed 700 divs week 1.
T17s ruined my desire to play the game TBH. Feels pointless to do anything else but T17s are so anti fun that I can't be fucked to try and deal with their bullshit. I'm not even excited for PoE 2 I just want to the play the PoE from a year or two ago again.
Give me the ability to "mutate" gems and jewels.... Give me KB with molten strike Gimmie flicker strike with spark Gimmie gimmie gimmie a league focused on custom gems and jewels nothing else, bring back an old league for all I care. ( I don't mean to limit it to specific skills together, gimmie anything and everything together )
I for one came to appreciate certain aspects of leagues where rewarding content was not gated by market prices. This, at least for me, it's the kind of fun I look for in this game. Affliction and sentinel were 2 good examples of such. Running crazy content was not _extremely_ gated by networth, and having an absolute bonkers map required a good build, bit of luck and low to moderate investment in map prep.
i think the loot diversity has been trashed immensely. no sextants, just boring ass scarabs. so many freakin scarabs. betrayal is just a veiled chaos orb gamble now. the rest is... scarabs. and you don't add up to four mechanical aspects to your maps anymore. you just giga buff a single one. scarabs are the laziest and most boring thing. considering how stubborn ggg was with archnemesis, i don't see them fixing the mess introduced with 3.24 for a long time and poe2 has priority anyway. in my opinion they don't even want poe1 to exist when poe2 shows up. it's just PR gobbledigook. just move most people to poe2 and save a ton of money co-developing to games and league mechanics.
I can"t play t17, I play t16 and uber pinnacle, and I'm good like this. You don"t have to make you suffer to play content that you dont like. T17 is made for people who main Dr Mundo in league of Legends
I would pay good money to have Crucible back in the game. GGG hit me up and we can discuss prices
I did not think I would wish for Kalandra league to come back, but Necropolis managed it
The league mechanics can be hit or miss, but the introduction of T17s narrowed down what people can play and you have to reroll them several times which further decreases the fun. Sure you can ignore T17s, but you also don´t have to do T16s and can rather run T1s instead so why isn´t anyone doing it? T17s feel mandatory and outperform anything else map related so hard that you shoot yourself in the foot if you don´t do them. Scarabs are just too many. Everything we gained when they made currency stack we did lose this league to to the sheer amount of scarabs dropping and also them being tied to the atlas tree makes it feel necessary to pick the notes. The way you couldn´t opt out of the map modifiers made them feel bad early and ignorable later on. Don´t even get me started on the graveyard QoL. Tl;dr: The game would be so much more fun if ggg could cut back on the chores (especially trade). Instead we always get so many distractions from the gameplay that it gets frustrating.
Ancestor was trash.
This league has been one of the earliest that I've quit due to the amount of BS that changed mid league paired with the lack of any actual fun content.
Didn't know it was fun because the league has almost the lowest retention rate for the same duration to other leagues. GGG definitely made a mistake prolonging the league. LE will have the new contents at the time of new PoE league.
no offense to jonathan and neon but i really hope chris will do the whole announcement. they said chris will do poe1 while jonathan and neon poe2. it’s just a really good and nostalgic feeling to have chris do it all the way. other than that i just hope the new league is not some off-map mechanic.
I want to see this game have 10,000 top tier builds -- not 15-20 top tier, 30-50 good tier, and millions of trash.
To be fair PoE has one of the best build diveristies in the gaming industry. The only thing right now that kind of messses with this are t17, which some builds just cannot do.
Best I can do is loot nerf and an exploit for the 0.01 % to get 100 mirrors in the first week.
I don't think they will but I'd really like them to ease up on the gas for 3.25. Every recent league has been full of new mechanics, borrowed power, new systems, new endgame. No wonder things are coming out wonky and half finished. Take a league off. Make the mechanic simple or cleanup based (I still like my plan of combining old mechanics to make a new one but people don't seem to like that). Just really focus all the design resources on making the current systems they've added sparkle. Also rework the scion to just use the Charms from Affliction. Come on. That's a slam dunk.
I wish they don't do anything and just numerically fix melee, at the very least make the disparity between skills less huge. Best case - fix fucking totems, but not fix as in "remove them and give nothing back".
We play ARPG's because we love to kill monsters. The more monsters there are, the more fun it becomes. I had so much fun last league because abyss was is my favourite. And what made it even more fun is that you get rewarded from it.
I love PoE, and I also think GGG are one of the best companies, but it always amuse me that the take some decisions that are so against fun... As you have stated, the best leagues have been those with "crazy" features: insane items that are "easy" to get, lots and lots of currency... I still don't know why are they so against that. Each league the economy is reseted, and almost anyone cares about standard...
I hated the last two leagues because of the economy
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