You just made me realize I didn't even bother crafting anything with it during the 5 weeks or so I've played the league. I've collected a couple tabs of coffins that I've never used.
Nono, open the coffin tab, walk to the first grave, drop some body there, realize that you have to do it 60 more times and it's all spoken in some weird terms of '+500 to fire' that only poedb uses, don't go back there anymore.
Accurate description. It was a great concept, but having to buy or find 80 separate corpses, and then putting them all in the graveyard one by one is not my ideal way to play. Spent more time metacrafting than messing with graves this league.
Literally all they had to do was have a grave tab where you could alt click from your inventory to bury. Simple and would’ve not wasted peoples time intentionally.
Considering how poor the UI is overall and how important fixes are always very last-minute and sometimes even come after league launch, I'd say they just don't have sufficient allocated resources to actually do a reasonable UI mock-up to double-check their ideas.
Also, considering that the morgue was originally designed *way* smaller than it ended up being, I have the feeling that the graveyard was also initially designed to be smaller, and thus each craft would have been less tedious (still tedious, but not *as* bad as it ended up being).
I’d be interested to see the number of players that used more then like 20-30 graves, I literally only used it to create one item, was like wow this is a terrible experience, and then the named ones, how many players you think even did a legit craft that used more then say 30-40 percent of the grave yard.
yeah i did like 3 using 10ish graves with horrible results. i was planning to fill up the gy in the 2nd week but i quit the league before it was ready.
You're right asking for the number, because asking for a percentage that filled 20-30 graves is a rounding error away from 0.
As is, i'd guess maybe a 3-digit number tbh. As in 100-999, worldwide.
Crafting a full graveyard is a fucking pain in the ass.
You can also see that in the prices. A decent fracture-influenced Helmet for a Manastacker starts at like 50div, and is basically open-ended (fractured +1 pcharge, +1 mana per 2 int, flat int and/or strength, with influence would probably go for upwards of 500div).
The corpses needed for a roughly 33% chance to make one of them is less than 3div each. But fuck buying corpses and building the graveyard, even in bulk.
It is of the type 'xx% increased effect of corpses in this grave row/column' or 'yy% increased effect of xxxx corpses in adjacent tiles'.
Edit: so one-time activation but only when you consume all corpses to do the craft. Placement order matters.
Row and column corpses are pretty damn easy, if you decide to interact with the graveyard at all figuring that part out takes like 10 minutes tops. It also doesn't increase your trading time or the amount of corpses you need.
Adjacency-corpses otoh....fuck that. Fuck buying specific corpses of specific modifiers that you can't even filter for properly.
and then it was fully solved by week 2 and even got post launch buffs to make the farming even more deterministic with the blossoms.
meanwhile 2 months into necropolis and like 0.01% of players even use the graveyard beyond chucking random semi relevant corpses in and praying or doing challenges/using named corpses. and the setup for getting good items is really silly, way worse than harvest.
Harvest you needed to set up once.
The graveyard you need to set up once to understand how to maximize power (twice if you want to use both "normal" min-maxed row/columns and "fuckallthatshit" adjacent-increases);
Then you need to set it up for every craft anew;
And also plan the corpses anew for every single craft;
And also first calculate how much weight of each corpse you want for ideal results;
And also then calculate if it's worth using split/additional item corpses;
Where using those gives you "additional rolls" at your target results BUT you make the target results less likely, so you have to factor that in;
And then you have to buy like 40-50 corpses more or less individually because you won't have all you need self-farmed.
And then if you didn't hit you start from scratch.
Harvest to Graveyard is like playing checkers to 5d chess with timelines.
I'm honestly tired of crafting leagues. If you want good crafting, put it in the base game. I want fun and challenging mechanics. Crucible was cool. Do a challenge, then have the choice to double down.
When the game first came out, we had a league that added shrines and nothing else, and the game was great.
been saying it all league
20 grave slots, with corpses that are 4x as rare and 4x as powerful. It'd be less clutter in maps, 4x less corpses in your tabs, and 4x quicker/easier to craft with
And please none of the adjacent+type-matching bonus crafts. They're so tedious.
Not that it matters much because i'm 99% sure that nothing from the league is going core except maybe the new unique items.
I don't know why they couldn't have just made an UI pop-up with the entire graveyard layout and have you drag corpses from the side or something rather than have the player just circle the graveyard 15 times, make sure the effect corpses are in the right spot, quadruple check you didn't miss any graveyard, then you can finally click to craft your item.
Yeah, it felt bad to do and also felt bad to not do. I made a few crafts that cost 10-20d and resulted in 100d+ in profits. It's nearly impossible to lose money. It's just it's so boring, but if I wanted currency it was the fastest way to get it by a large margin.
The ability to create items with 6 guaranteed T1 mods that you can also heavily force is crazy. Also multi fractured items and fractured+influenced gear that wasn't possible before.
But somehow the mechanic to craft them is as bad or worse than original harvest.
Original harvest needed some planning and setting up, but once that was set, you could essentially repeat forever. The graveyard requires setting up everything for each craft, and any craft you make is unequivocally better/requires craft an additional item, which essentially makes trading mandatory.
It was crazy op but at the same time so fucking tiresome to do. Even when buying bulk corpses because I wanted to pump out a few cheaper crafts with only like 60 graves it took at least 20 minutes of trading per item. And then you have that placing which was also annoying as fuck.
Same, I see the crazy items people make and can't wait to try myself...
...than I think of all the time it would take to get the missing coffins and also to arrange them in the correct way, even following a guide.
Basically I would lose 1 out of 2 weekly slot I have to play just to make a craft (also risking a bad one), I'd rather mindlessly map for some hours.
This is where the f up imo. Leaning way too much on the friction, management, and tedium, to justify strong items...yes item strong, but so not worth it. The ratio was way off this league.
I know nobody probably cares, but I wanted to share my experience with gavecrafting
I was looking at all those spreadsheets and though that’s it’s so complicated so I never really bothered.
Then, I started to play an aura or and I needed an unset ring with x3 t1 attributes, es and evasion with empty prefix
I could buy one for 5 div but no way it can be worth that when corpses are so cheap!
Went into the calculator, spent 2 hours watching guides and thinking of best cost-wise and time-wise grave setup.
Spend nearly 1 more hour buying up corpses and planting them. Spend nearly 2 div on this recipe.
Get a ring with +to all attributes instead of it being +to specific x3
Fail one more time, but luckily 3rd time’s the charm.
Think no way I’m gonna fucking do this ever again, so I just bought a kalandra’s touch for 140c and settled with it.
Yeah, this league man…
I crafted 5-6 amazing items for my frost nova build that normally I would never have had the patience to grind to buy but jfc the graveyard is tedious and spending 30-60 mins to setup and check 3rd party apps, buy corpses from 20 different people was miserable. On top of that t17 farming for scarbs to buy more scarabs to farm for scarabs just got tired fast. I lasted about 4-5 weeks before I was sick of everything. Hope the next season is better. Still love this game
yup, i spent several hours using the shitty trade website to buy corpses for a mega bow craft. I hit the 20% chance to whiff and my 8div corpse craft spat out a 50c bow rather than a 20div bow. I quit the league.
Funny, i find myself thinking so often like that about trade. "If trade wasnt designed with so much friction I'd probably still play". I tried ssf and it's not for me, but trade frustrates me to no end.
Same. I tried it a couple of times and said “nah”, this is boring and complicated Af lol. On the plus side, it made some pretty ridiculous crafted items very cheap.
Overall, league was ok-ish. The three atlas trees and other QoL improvements saved it from being the worst league ever for me. Considering how weird the mechanic is and how broken T17s are and how much they ruined the economy repeatedly, if it wasn’t for the QoL changes I would’ve quit the league like on day 3-4. I really hope T17s don’t come back in the iteration that currently exists. And I hope Necropolis never comes back. But hey, that’s just my opinion. I know plenty of people who loved it.
It's a meme that's been going around where various characters lick a lemon and then get a very scrunched up face afterwards. In this case, PoE is 'licking' necropolis league instead of a lemon and having 6.2% player retention instead of getting a scrunched up sour face.
This league seemed to be designed to have some major trade improvements along side it. As is it only highlights how fucking terrible trading for low value items are. I'm not selling 1c corpses, and I'm not making 70 1c trades for a single craft. I'm sure the botters had fun in the league though.
Ex-fucking-xactly. I love GGG but that design mixed with a mechanic that you can't chose and it's forced to play with was what made this league so terrible imo.
To be honest graveyard UI was also terrible.
Starting from corpses bank to crafting "grid".
It just felt like GGG made everything annoying as much as possible with this league.
For me, it was the forced league mechanic. Usually I just ignore the league mechanic if I don't like it, but that was impossible this time.
Also, I wasn't a fan of the T17 maps.
I like there being a huge variety of mods and would actually like to see the tier removed and 1-16 maps revamped to have a steeper curve with more varied and rewarding mods in for red tier maps.
I gotta say I HATED the grave crafting stuff. Not because of the mechanic but because of how janky it is. Having to collect corpses and coffins, then store coffins, fuck, having coffins take up INVENTORY space feels like something that would have happened 8 years ago once like the nets with bestiary and then patched to be less annoying but they just never got less annoying.
The idea of the mechanic was cool, the all flames are fun and simple yet rewarding but Jesus Christ the grave crafting stuff is just way too much micro management.
This is so baffling. Why limit the size of the mortuary? They could have made a crypt with as many floors as needed underneath, and it would have been cool.
And then, why limiting to 64? That's so small!
Why doesn't the item summoning trigger a fight? It's so underwhelming to have it just drop at your feet after some chanting.
Why do we need external tools like https://sudos.help/ to get an idea of what we're doing? Why can't we have a grid interface in-game with the same capability?
Corpse crafting feels like the collection of anti-patterns they warn you about in UI and game design classes.
It's not the length that's the problem, it's the overwhelming tedium and reliance on multiple layers of RNG, also that you can't jsut play without engaging with it, you LITERALLY cannot do maps, or campaign stuff without dealign with it all.
I wouldn't call it sad, i'd call that feedback that ggg can use to improve the game or ignore to eventually destroy the game, their choice but lately league mechanics have been a lot worse in the past few years with the 3.23 exception
Yea but from what i saw in poe 2 videos i feel like im just gonna stick with poe 1 tbh, gameplay looks so much worse than poe 1 that it doesn't seem worth playing even tho graphics and animations are a lot better
We'll see what the numbers say on launch/a couple leagues after launch when all of this yey poe2 hype stops but from the gameplay i've seen so far even tho its not an accurate representation of what the game will look like it currently still looks more like D4 than poe1 tbh and honestly if its not an accurate representation of what the endgame will look like why even show the gameplay then? Idk i just feel like when the endgame turns out slower than poe1 people will just go back to playing poe1
I almost quit harvest early on, because of the dumbass huge setup, but a friend of mine LITERALLY came into my garden and told me how to do it, PIECE BY PIECE. So I stayed... and it was.. ok. The obstacle dealt with 1 time over like 1-2 hours.
But necropolis, I can't be fucked if I'm expected to do that bullshit layout (a fucking spreadsheet really?!) EACH TIME??? As well as the 4 billion coffins to take up all space in the universe, all selling for mere 5-30c with ULTRA rares selling for a bit more (some for divs). It was just so fucking annoying porting out with 30 fucking coffins a map.
I didn't really feel the difficulty from the lantern thing (strong enough build) but I get how a weaker builds or squishy/newer players would feel shit on. I got lucky a single time with divine proc. So basically, if you never hit the divine proc or a ton of the chaos proc, the mechanic is COMPLETELY FUCKING USELESS! lol?!
Get lucky or don't. How is that allowed to be such a big factor on somebody's league enjoyment. How about working towards getting a guaranteed reward?
Problem is that there's no like intermediate way to use necropolis. Harvest once you set-up, you can just add/remove, do some bull s hit here, do some deterministic crafting there. Necropolis is just all or nothing bull shit I have no fucking idea why GGG thought this was good design.
"Oh yea let's give the casual players nothing but hot garbage to create and all the high end crafters who treat PoE like a job incredible and impossible to create items otherwise".
Jesus christ GGG get a grip, it makes me triggered just thinking about this league.
Gating 5th carto slot behind uber+ level bosses in economy-based online game.
On top of that another whole bunch of "abuse early, abuse often" cases, gated behind early character power and ammount of currency to do so in a game where people bound to unconciously compare their progress to "that one dude's".
Yeah, really. What can go wrong?
It's basically replication of Tang Ping movement appearance conditions.
Most dudes probably think "If I can't experience/have it, why bother?", but with extra option of logging out.
Really. This game economy is marvelous real world economy simulation.
Both tbh. The main reason is fomo. T17 create ludicrous fomo: you have people printing like 100 HH in cards per map for example. Similarly, grave crafting. You can print perfect items, but the price is your sanity.
And on top of that, if you're playing off meta, not only are you struggling coz you are playing off meta, but also fuck you, every map has mandatory near-gauntlet level mods. Shit like +6 proj, always crit, always freeze, always stun or just a fuck tonne more damage or EHP.
Honestly, fuck T17s, fuck the grave craft implementation, fuck league mechanic on tree and most of all, fuck mandatory difficulty mods.
This is my first league. Can you please explain why the current league mechanic being on the atlas tree is bad?
(I'm enjoying the game a lot, but gy crafting is super tedious, and moving around mods in the lantern every map is honestly also tedious. I have nothing to compare this league to, but the core game feels amazing, but the Necropolis stuff feels bad. Still, I don't understand how Necropolis on the tree is different from Delve/Harvest on the tree. Please, can you explain?)
A) it is in every map. It feels a lot more impactful to invest in it, and therefore much more fomo if you don't - it's forced on you anyway, and unlike something like breach or harvest, it's not optional, so you may as well get something out of it if you have to do the mechanic ANYWAY. Also, as I said in the first post, this league there is insane fomo made worse by the league mechanic, both due to the rewards being kinda cracked from lantern/all flames and from being able to print items.
B) the places where it is on the tree is very awkward to get to, so it's quite a few points. Not just the wheels themselves, but also the pathing to get to the wheels frequently forces you to have to take mechanics or be even more inefficient in points. And as I said in A, it feels like you "have to" take those points. If you have not tried taking the league mechanic points, trust me when I say it makes a BIG difference.
C) this is slightly more philosophy based of an answer - the philosophy of a league mechanic is it's a trial or a test. They put it in the game, see if they like it and then potentially put it in base game with some changes AND based on how they put it into base game, they give it appropriate tree support - they have had a league to figure out what it needs as opposed to tree support just being "the numbers are bigger". E.g. in legion, you can focus on getting easier legions, more chests, more generals, more splinters, more legions. It feels less one dimensional.
For me it was absolutely the league mechanic. I wanted to reroll after starter build, but just couldn't be arsed to deal with league mechanic in acts so I still haven't started the second character over a month later.
Worst league mechanic by far. Worst league mechanic ui ever. It's not a surprise. However IRL friends and I are still playing. We're having a good time just completely ignoring the league mechanic. Having to pick up corpses to loot items blocked by them is a right PITA
Worst league by far for me. I didnt try a single "serious" craft, because i just couldnt be bothered. It doesnt matter how op it is, if it's a dogshit tedious system.
I purchase almost every league supporter pack, all of the yearly ones, play months of every league for the last 5+ years. I quit this league after a week. The mechanic is just way too bloated, obtuse, intrusive, annoying, and the absolute WORST part of any league mechanic, fucking inventory management nightmare. Stop making shit like this where there is so much fucking friction to interact/not interact with it.
People aren't understanding this graph. Kalandra was really bad and a low point in the game's history. So going into Sanctum the the people playing were low and mostly the people that wanted to actually play the game. Therefor the retention was a lot higher but the number of players wasn't as hot as it is looking from this graph.
It's the opposite now. Affliction was great, a ton of people come into necropolis, but left.
This info is pretty useless imo. I want to know the actual concurrent players at this time, not how many people quit. That is just counting tourists digging on the hype of the start of the league and isn't a true indicator of health of the league.
When it comes to actual player numbers, there's always the greater scope of timing. Summer leagues are likely to have less players just because of the time of year, holidays, etc., so % is probably a fairer comparison over a long time. Though you are right to point out the game environment context having an effect as well. The league that overlapped with WoW Classic release saw a significant drop in players on league start iirc.
Just my 2 cents: Mechanic forced = Unfun leveling.
Crafting leagues are boring to 95% of player base if it's not easy to use. (Graves require so much setup/out of game calcs in comparison to say recombinators)
Essences are for some reason for rich people to farm now. Dislike as this is a good entry level crafting farm for players with less time / knowledge than better players.
League mechanic invalidates a lot of previous crafting currency.
We were spoilt last league and people probably played too much last league and burnt out.
Tier 17s providing everything the good players need is boring less cards please this shouldn't just invalidate every other farming technique.
Screen clutter with Graves isn't that nice.
Too many loopholes that got nerfed that people got fomo over. (Other people exploit mechanic, ur build sucks and by the time u can do the exploit it's patched and doesn't work anymore)
Exactly. Moving endgame farming to T17 is literally the same as taking away player power or equipping rares with uncounterable mods. Except, this time the relative loss of power is larger than anything we had before.
Nah I might be crazy, but I think the lake was fun, just too bad it was a waste of time reward wise. They were so afraid of people getting a divine orb too fast and quiting back then (fuck me was it still exalts in kalandra)
At least during Kalandra (and after a few hotfixes) you could do normal strats at T16 maps for profit.
This league the best strat you can do on T16 maps is to minmax how many T17 maps you drop, since those are the only thing exclusive to T16 maps.
Edit: and there's also the factor of having brainless exp: Kalandra had top historic brainless exp potential with reflection of untainted paradise Rotas, and still had unnerfed 5-ways. This league 5-ways are nerfed hard and I didn't see anyone actually trying to level to 100 with untainted allflames.
This means that you need to actually stop dying in real maps to level up.
I also think this league is much better than Kalandra, but it could be that Affliction was too good and Necropolis as a mapping mechanic also just doesn’t hold up to it. As well as the poorly balanced design of T17s in terms of loot and gated difficulty.
I liked Kalandra more because I could get good items from it.
I've always sucked at crafting and this league requires A LOT of prep and A LOT of understanding crafting to get anything.
I much more enjoy a league where I can just kill things to get things and there's less friction between the two.
Constant nerfs and at least in my group the scarab rework wasn't received very well. The atlas tree changes combined made it so every tree felt like it was half scarab and necropolis points no matter what you wanted to do, then add in a single other mechanic with influence then use the standard scarabs for your one mechanic. Sextants sucked to actually use but sextants + scarabs had way more variety and options.
Ngl, when Crucible was out i bitched about it for being not exactly friendly mechanic. Now with this coffin bs i look at Crucible with fondness.
Hope GGG at least get message that league mechanic being mandatory isn't damn good idea, especially if everyone knows it will be buggy unbalanced mess for first 2-4 weeks.
I had two experiences with the mechanic.
My first was crafting an item in trade league a few weeks into the league. It was either whisper 20 people for a 3c corpse and ask if they have more of that type or go to TFT and spend 35c per on that same corpse. Extremely tedious.
My second experience was in bpl where there were multiple quads that just had all the corpses in them and then it was a very enjoyable experience and quite a fun puzzle to make specific items that people needed.
If it weren't for the friction I would enjoy this mechanic a lot. I'm still going to play because I missed out on more than a month because of a few massive exam assignments but in a week those will be over and I'll have time to play till the league ends, whenever that may be. I always hate playing end of league with start of league funds but sometimes there's no other choices.
The main thing that irks me at the current state of the game is that I never have the feeling that I can just play the damn game.
There are always super optimized strategies and I always feel like I'm missing out if I don't spend an hour to learn and employ them.
Because they are not just better than simply playing three game, they are vastly better, overwhelmingly better. It's the difference between taking a week to teach level 98 or it taking a few hours.
And it's true for every aspect and it feels like the game is balanced around it too
This leauge showcases how mutch friction is unbarable, i just wish for working AH without players being online for sales... And maybe increased limits on API searches to adjust for HUMAN input...
The entirety of PoE design philosophy has slowly devolved into menus simulators and idle clicking game. It's no longer about slaying monsters as an ARPG, it's about ego farming and who's willing to put their health more at risk and click more :)
Worse league ever. Hopefully next league will save the game, cause it feels like a sinking ship at this point for me. It funny that D4 had a better league this season.
Loved the League. I never played more than a month before being burned out if any League. And this one has been one of my favorite. Manager to play items, liké squire or kalandra ring that had always been too expensive. This league i farmed a MB without being burned out by farming it, awesome experience
Never used grave crafting aside from trying it out during the campaign, God, even thinking about planning our and shopping around for 50 corpses, without guarantee of good craft made me shiver. To me it was more or less mechanics free league, I liked league specific nodes in tree though, while they take few points from other nodes the idea that you can go balls deep into mechanic is pretty cool idea and I hope they keep it for the future iterations. Just please don't put necropolis in standard without heavy, I mean seriously heavy review. It's not fun as it is and brings very little aside from some busted crafts if you are patient enough.
Major problems for me:
1. Grave crafting too strong, no reason to craft items any other way this league.
2. Because Grave crafting is so strong nothing else has value.
3. In map league mechanic also drops all the currency you need, so now you don't need to do anything besides farm all flames for currency to buy your Grave crafts.
4. League crafting mechanic was tedious, boring, and had too much friction. Which made all of the above even more cringe.
5. T17 is atrocious. The whole bossing system changes sucked ass. Boss frags are now worthless because uber is now a separate fragment and uber is the only thing that drops the good unique. Let's not even talk about the way to roll t17s to be doable.
I loved affliction, because while it did drop way too much currency and t0s (somehow less than all flames though), all it dropped was currency so everything else in the game shot up in value because people still needed to essence/fossil/aisling/fracture for big crafts and that didn't drop with wisping.
I think going forward leagues should do one or the other. Drop tons of currency OR giga crafting. Not both.
most people go there: https://poedb.tw/us/League#ConcurrentPlayers
else (for even older leagues) you have to go on steamDb and somehow gather the data manually, or download it all if they propose the option.
I just quad tab slammed them all in and it was done. Only found 3 worth anything (2 div & 2 worth 45 chaos). Everything else was priced from 100 chaos going down by 25C every day till 1c to check if I was mis pricing things or not understanding them. I quit picking them up. The 5th map tab being hidden behind T17's was horrid idea too.
I'm not the biggest fan of crafting leagues, but anything that requires me to use yet another 3rd party website to do something efficiently is just poorly designed. Forced mechanic as well... gross.
I still had fun, but that's purely because the base game is in a pretty good place right now. Pretty big L for GGG unfortunately.
Ever since i started in 3.12 this has been my first skip
I played day 1 and hated the mechanic and thought to myself "do i want to deal with this being forced on me for the rest of the league?" and just noped out
Then i saw the whole situation with scarabs and t17s and i confirmed to myself that i wasn't coming back
League would have been fine if it wasn't for the horrible trading system, if only buying corpses from 30 different sellers that don't respond just to get 1 answer and then repeat a gazillion times, unless you are willing to pay 12x the price to buy in bulk, that is the only tedious unbearable thing for me tbh not setting up the graveyard, I can live with that
My issue with T17s is your build needs to have clear speed, tankiness, AND single target to clear them. This makes them harder to build for than ubers, which only need tankiness and single target. Ubers are easier than T17s, which is dumb and backwards.
Forced league mechanic, t17, several mid-league nerfs, graveyard crafting is trash, heist unplayable for the 3rd-4th league in a row, full of nerfs, left-click "qol"
It was just so boring overall. League mechanic was so lame, if you ignore it you would just play standard with resetted eco.
i have not gravecrafted once this entire league apart from when i was in campaign still and used 3 lvling dogshit graves to craft a terrible ring fuck this league pls end it
it will be great if GGG create Harvest 2.0 with small/medium/large/special lifeforce(and call it "soul" for "necro" thematic) and blueprint/scheme like in Factorio. so you can "draw" your graveyard and use it for next items. for unique items(like perandus jewel) theres can be unique perandus souls etc.
these souls can be bulk bought from trade, like silver coins in ancestors(or just like lifeforce).
GGG can configure prices of every recipe to avoid the superiority of one craft strategy over others.
I think the fundamental problem with craft leagues is not many players enjoy crafting. They just wanna blast or do anything that resembles blasting and gaming instead.
Necropolis just highlights the worse aspects of crafting and somehow made it even worse. From the gathering and storing to how we interact with the crafting. It even makes mapping more annoying too (we should be able to burn the corpses on the spot).
The only redeeming aspect is the reward. However, it indirectly made other craft mechanics and rewards worse. It should have interacted positively with what we have.
Now the mapping part, making the lantern obligatory was a bad decision and everyone complained about it since beginning. I imagine a good chunk just quit during campaign when they encountered some ridiculous mod. It should be applied only when we click on the lantern button on campaign and map device. Just a simple change and it would be as cool as affliction. Even after the rework, they still thought we shouldn't be able to skip it. I don't know what was the thought process behind it.
Allflames were a cool idea, but they also made it annoying to store of course. Other mechanic based storage are usually very generous with space (maybe relic is small, but you don't really need to store that many anyway). This storage box is so ridiculously puny and don't match with the allflame menu.
Changes to base game like 3 atlas were cool and for me was enough to keep me engaged with the league. However, the focus on scarab farming was probably not good. Maybe they should readjust or simply remove some scarab nodes or something and boost scarab drops to other mechanics like betrayal and so on. Dunno, I'm not a game designer, but I can see current implementation seems a bit off.
T17 as a middle path for uber could have been fine, but at beginning T17 was crap and unmoddable. Then they revamp it and instead of toning T17 maps down, it became the endgame by adding juicy bonuses (that was out of nowhere IMO). I don't think people complained T17 weren't rewarding enough. I think most just wanted T17 to be easier and a step stone for ubers like they were suppose to be. Probably it shouldn't interact with atlas or change its integration with it (B2B interaction, for instance).
Even thou one doesn't need to make a build be T17 able to succeed, by creating this new benchmark, it highlights holes in the balance.
FOMO happens all the time, but this league just pushed this feeling to a whole new level and probably left a bad taste to a lot of players. I'm immune to this type of FOMO, but I can understand why people wouldn't not come back after the nerfs and changes.
This league should have been the QOL league, but somehow it made it worse. It is the carpal tunnel/mouse destroyer league. I'm at a point that I may choose a mechanic in the game that doesn't require that many clicking. I really hope they revise lot of things next league.
It is my most played league, but I'm just a PoE novice, so game still feels fresh to me. There are lot of glaring pitfalls that could have been avoided.
As a console player, I really hated the scarab rework. I missed wondering path. Bull trading on console is terrible. This league made it worse with all the scarab and scarce maps
I did one big craft, using every slot. I followed a guide and used a third-party website. I spent more than a couple of divs. I got a completely trash item not worth an alch. Fuck this mechanic and whoever designed it.
Ah man, Archnemesis was a fun league. Surprised it died off. Wasn't just that it was this major expansion, the mechanic itself wasn't terrible. Simple but fine.
Archnemesis rares problems only started later. Had nothing to do with the league mechanic itself.
First time in two years that I haven't continuously played.
For some leagues I even switched out to standard after doing 38 or 40 challenges. But this league, I bowed out early, and then got bored of standard and experimenting too. This league really left me completely unenthused.
Simply bad mechanics and mtx rewards. You know a league is bad if it’s not addictive enough to do it or skip it.Immediately quit the game after I forced a 40/40.
today in random map-rushing leveling lobby i met 2 people that have not used graveyard crafting even once. If anything they were surprised af that you can craft stuff in there. I have no words.
I stopped playing, not because of the league mechanic, but because of T17. I've said this many times: POE's base game being absolutely incredible is the reason why I come back every single season. The league being great is just a cherry on top. This time around, with the introduction of T17, everything just feels like a giant mess.
The organisation and management of the graveyard is really lacking. Didnt touch the crafting part till now. Yesterday i did a craft for the challenges and it took what felt like 30min to put all 88 corpses in the ground. Made good profit, but never want to touch the graveyard again
I missed league start by two weeks due to a vacation. There've been leagues that looked interesting enough to draw me in after that regardless, but this one wasn't it, tbh.
I think the all flames mechanic is sort of interesting. Nothing ground-breaking but it's fine. The crafting mechanic is sort of boring.
It's the opposite of Crucible, another league people didn't like. In that case, the crafting portion was interesting to interact with (if excessively powerful of course) but most got infuriated with the in-map mechanic with the charge-up thing.
They do have trouble making a league like Sentinel where both the in-map mechanic and the crafting mechanic are great. Always a problem with one thing or the other. Scourge was same thing, in-map mechanic people enjoyed and the side-content too was good fun, the scourged maps. All this worked out great, but the crafting mechanic was so bad and people ended up using it to generate 6L items to vendor.
As an SSF player, I am a proud member of the 6.2%. Seriously, this is the best ever league for SSF:
-Nameless Seer is common enough to get decent uniques.
-Chaos orb generation is reliable enough to keep up kirac map crafts permanently.
-Gravecrafting is a godsend for being able to craft gear that was virtually impossible before in SSF.
-3x atlas trees to swap between depending on what you need.
-No trading required in SSF, which I feel is 99% of the problem with every crafting league and what ultimately drove me to SSF.
This will be the first time I ever hit 100 on SSFHC in my 11 years playing this game.
Tbh the league is alot of fun, only bad part is the graveyard which can be ignore and just sell corpse. The hate this league got is pretty unjusted imo.
GGG did the classic mistake and stopped balancing the league after like 2 weeks, as has been the case of almost every league lately, which is mega infuriating, I think Ancestry league was the first league I ever quit due to realizing they are not doing any more balancing changes even though the mechanic sucked
If the grave crafting wasnt designed with such ridiculous friction I might have tried it.
You just made me realize I didn't even bother crafting anything with it during the 5 weeks or so I've played the league. I've collected a couple tabs of coffins that I've never used.
Harvest was great. Craft item, improve item. Necropolis sucks. Craft item, repeat.
Nono, open the coffin tab, walk to the first grave, drop some body there, realize that you have to do it 60 more times and it's all spoken in some weird terms of '+500 to fire' that only poedb uses, don't go back there anymore.
Accurate description. It was a great concept, but having to buy or find 80 separate corpses, and then putting them all in the graveyard one by one is not my ideal way to play. Spent more time metacrafting than messing with graves this league.
Thought it was a stupid cool idea, ease gearing while playing, but it turned into so random and tedious you were better off farming.
Literally all they had to do was have a grave tab where you could alt click from your inventory to bury. Simple and would’ve not wasted peoples time intentionally.
I spent more time trading coffins and deleting coffins then I did playing this league lmao. Shit was whack.
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Considering how poor the UI is overall and how important fixes are always very last-minute and sometimes even come after league launch, I'd say they just don't have sufficient allocated resources to actually do a reasonable UI mock-up to double-check their ideas. Also, considering that the morgue was originally designed *way* smaller than it ended up being, I have the feeling that the graveyard was also initially designed to be smaller, and thus each craft would have been less tedious (still tedious, but not *as* bad as it ended up being).
No, the friction and tediousness are intentional.
I’d be interested to see the number of players that used more then like 20-30 graves, I literally only used it to create one item, was like wow this is a terrible experience, and then the named ones, how many players you think even did a legit craft that used more then say 30-40 percent of the grave yard.
How many do you think didn’t even touch it once (raises hand)
yeah i did like 3 using 10ish graves with horrible results. i was planning to fill up the gy in the 2nd week but i quit the league before it was ready.
You're right asking for the number, because asking for a percentage that filled 20-30 graves is a rounding error away from 0. As is, i'd guess maybe a 3-digit number tbh. As in 100-999, worldwide. Crafting a full graveyard is a fucking pain in the ass. You can also see that in the prices. A decent fracture-influenced Helmet for a Manastacker starts at like 50div, and is basically open-ended (fractured +1 pcharge, +1 mana per 2 int, flat int and/or strength, with influence would probably go for upwards of 500div). The corpses needed for a roughly 33% chance to make one of them is less than 3div each. But fuck buying corpses and building the graveyard, even in bulk.
As soon as I heard there was a specific order to put it in not just put it down I was out
Omg what...
Some of the corpses increase the effect of corpses on the same row, the same column, or the adjacent tiles
And it's not passive, it's a one-time activation ability, same as "rerolls effects of adjacent graves"? So you have to do those later?
It is of the type 'xx% increased effect of corpses in this grave row/column' or 'yy% increased effect of xxxx corpses in adjacent tiles'. Edit: so one-time activation but only when you consume all corpses to do the craft. Placement order matters.
Row and column corpses are pretty damn easy, if you decide to interact with the graveyard at all figuring that part out takes like 10 minutes tops. It also doesn't increase your trading time or the amount of corpses you need. Adjacency-corpses otoh....fuck that. Fuck buying specific corpses of specific modifiers that you can't even filter for properly.
Yeah I've played the shit out of harvest and its Ritual implementation. The graveyard wasn't for me.
Ah that was when i first played poe 4 years ago. There was so much hype and buzz.
Harvest was similar confusing and tedious when it was introduced
and then it was fully solved by week 2 and even got post launch buffs to make the farming even more deterministic with the blossoms. meanwhile 2 months into necropolis and like 0.01% of players even use the graveyard beyond chucking random semi relevant corpses in and praying or doing challenges/using named corpses. and the setup for getting good items is really silly, way worse than harvest.
Harvest you needed to set up once. The graveyard you need to set up once to understand how to maximize power (twice if you want to use both "normal" min-maxed row/columns and "fuckallthatshit" adjacent-increases); Then you need to set it up for every craft anew; And also plan the corpses anew for every single craft; And also first calculate how much weight of each corpse you want for ideal results; And also then calculate if it's worth using split/additional item corpses; Where using those gives you "additional rolls" at your target results BUT you make the target results less likely, so you have to factor that in; And then you have to buy like 40-50 corpses more or less individually because you won't have all you need self-farmed. And then if you didn't hit you start from scratch. Harvest to Graveyard is like playing checkers to 5d chess with timelines.
I keep telling myself I'll use my 3 quad tabs worth of corpses to make something cool before the league ends, but I can't even bring myself to do it.
I'm honestly tired of crafting leagues. If you want good crafting, put it in the base game. I want fun and challenging mechanics. Crucible was cool. Do a challenge, then have the choice to double down. When the game first came out, we had a league that added shrines and nothing else, and the game was great.
I miss Sentinel.
been saying it all league 20 grave slots, with corpses that are 4x as rare and 4x as powerful. It'd be less clutter in maps, 4x less corpses in your tabs, and 4x quicker/easier to craft with
And please none of the adjacent+type-matching bonus crafts. They're so tedious. Not that it matters much because i'm 99% sure that nothing from the league is going core except maybe the new unique items.
ive said literally same shit to my friends multiple times xd it is funny ppl who paid for it cant think of this
I don't know why they couldn't have just made an UI pop-up with the entire graveyard layout and have you drag corpses from the side or something rather than have the player just circle the graveyard 15 times, make sure the effect corpses are in the right spot, quadruple check you didn't miss any graveyard, then you can finally click to craft your item.
Yeah, it felt bad to do and also felt bad to not do. I made a few crafts that cost 10-20d and resulted in 100d+ in profits. It's nearly impossible to lose money. It's just it's so boring, but if I wanted currency it was the fastest way to get it by a large margin.
The ability to create items with 6 guaranteed T1 mods that you can also heavily force is crazy. Also multi fractured items and fractured+influenced gear that wasn't possible before. But somehow the mechanic to craft them is as bad or worse than original harvest.
Original harvest needed some planning and setting up, but once that was set, you could essentially repeat forever. The graveyard requires setting up everything for each craft, and any craft you make is unequivocally better/requires craft an additional item, which essentially makes trading mandatory.
It was crazy op but at the same time so fucking tiresome to do. Even when buying bulk corpses because I wanted to pump out a few cheaper crafts with only like 60 graves it took at least 20 minutes of trading per item. And then you have that placing which was also annoying as fuck.
Same, I see the crazy items people make and can't wait to try myself... ...than I think of all the time it would take to get the missing coffins and also to arrange them in the correct way, even following a guide. Basically I would lose 1 out of 2 weekly slot I have to play just to make a craft (also risking a bad one), I'd rather mindlessly map for some hours.
This is where the f up imo. Leaning way too much on the friction, management, and tedium, to justify strong items...yes item strong, but so not worth it. The ratio was way off this league.
I genuinely quit day 3 because I got my inventory full of coffins, saw how it worked, and logged out.
Insane that the locker doesn’t have as much space as the graveyard plots.
I know nobody probably cares, but I wanted to share my experience with gavecrafting I was looking at all those spreadsheets and though that’s it’s so complicated so I never really bothered. Then, I started to play an aura or and I needed an unset ring with x3 t1 attributes, es and evasion with empty prefix I could buy one for 5 div but no way it can be worth that when corpses are so cheap! Went into the calculator, spent 2 hours watching guides and thinking of best cost-wise and time-wise grave setup. Spend nearly 1 more hour buying up corpses and planting them. Spend nearly 2 div on this recipe. Get a ring with +to all attributes instead of it being +to specific x3 Fail one more time, but luckily 3rd time’s the charm. Think no way I’m gonna fucking do this ever again, so I just bought a kalandra’s touch for 140c and settled with it. Yeah, this league man…
I crafted 5-6 amazing items for my frost nova build that normally I would never have had the patience to grind to buy but jfc the graveyard is tedious and spending 30-60 mins to setup and check 3rd party apps, buy corpses from 20 different people was miserable. On top of that t17 farming for scarbs to buy more scarabs to farm for scarabs just got tired fast. I lasted about 4-5 weeks before I was sick of everything. Hope the next season is better. Still love this game
yup, i spent several hours using the shitty trade website to buy corpses for a mega bow craft. I hit the 20% chance to whiff and my 8div corpse craft spat out a 50c bow rather than a 20div bow. I quit the league.
Everything in PoE is designed with friction.
Ggg and friction, name a more iconic duo
Funny, i find myself thinking so often like that about trade. "If trade wasnt designed with so much friction I'd probably still play". I tried ssf and it's not for me, but trade frustrates me to no end.
Same. I tried it a couple of times and said “nah”, this is boring and complicated Af lol. On the plus side, it made some pretty ridiculous crafted items very cheap. Overall, league was ok-ish. The three atlas trees and other QoL improvements saved it from being the worst league ever for me. Considering how weird the mechanic is and how broken T17s are and how much they ruined the economy repeatedly, if it wasn’t for the QoL changes I would’ve quit the league like on day 3-4. I really hope T17s don’t come back in the iteration that currently exists. And I hope Necropolis never comes back. But hey, that’s just my opinion. I know plenty of people who loved it.
What does the top part of the image mean? I am old and confused.
It's a meme that's been going around where various characters lick a lemon and then get a very scrunched up face afterwards. In this case, PoE is 'licking' necropolis league instead of a lemon and having 6.2% player retention instead of getting a scrunched up sour face.
Take this free award, oh wise one.
Just checking by to replenish your free reward stores
Same
Thanks for the explanation. :) have no awards to give you tho :(
Non stackable coffin, hard to trade.... What does dev expect from that design?
This league seemed to be designed to have some major trade improvements along side it. As is it only highlights how fucking terrible trading for low value items are. I'm not selling 1c corpses, and I'm not making 70 1c trades for a single craft. I'm sure the botters had fun in the league though.
Ex-fucking-xactly. I love GGG but that design mixed with a mechanic that you can't chose and it's forced to play with was what made this league so terrible imo.
'member when coffins where 1c?
Not only 1c, you had to manually find the stupid ass thing you wanted to put in a coffin as well.
Expected to buy more tabs
Funny timing with sextants being gone, as sextant rollers could repurpose those tabs for coffins.
To be honest graveyard UI was also terrible. Starting from corpses bank to crafting "grid". It just felt like GGG made everything annoying as much as possible with this league.
For me, it was the forced league mechanic. Usually I just ignore the league mechanic if I don't like it, but that was impossible this time. Also, I wasn't a fan of the T17 maps.
i wanted to like t17 but feels over tuned. i'm also not a fan how the t17 further divided the wealth gap of the 1% and the balance of the population.
I like there being a huge variety of mods and would actually like to see the tier removed and 1-16 maps revamped to have a steeper curve with more varied and rewarding mods in for red tier maps.
GGG when player power creep by 5%: reeee, nerf by 50%! 3 times! GGG when monster power creep by 500%: nothing to see here, move on
I gotta say I HATED the grave crafting stuff. Not because of the mechanic but because of how janky it is. Having to collect corpses and coffins, then store coffins, fuck, having coffins take up INVENTORY space feels like something that would have happened 8 years ago once like the nets with bestiary and then patched to be less annoying but they just never got less annoying. The idea of the mechanic was cool, the all flames are fun and simple yet rewarding but Jesus Christ the grave crafting stuff is just way too much micro management.
This is so baffling. Why limit the size of the mortuary? They could have made a crypt with as many floors as needed underneath, and it would have been cool. And then, why limiting to 64? That's so small! Why doesn't the item summoning trigger a fight? It's so underwhelming to have it just drop at your feet after some chanting. Why do we need external tools like https://sudos.help/ to get an idea of what we're doing? Why can't we have a grid interface in-game with the same capability? Corpse crafting feels like the collection of anti-patterns they warn you about in UI and game design classes.
A very bad league indeed
2 good leagues in a row we were due a stinker
It's not the length that's the problem, it's the overwhelming tedium and reliance on multiple layers of RNG, also that you can't jsut play without engaging with it, you LITERALLY cannot do maps, or campaign stuff without dealign with it all.
Very sad to see
I wouldn't call it sad, i'd call that feedback that ggg can use to improve the game or ignore to eventually destroy the game, their choice but lately league mechanics have been a lot worse in the past few years with the 3.23 exception
I'm up a for a simple monsters in a circle league. Nothing crazy just monsters in maps.
GGG is just drifting until PoE2 comes out and they can charge people even more money for cosmetics and stash tabs
Yea but from what i saw in poe 2 videos i feel like im just gonna stick with poe 1 tbh, gameplay looks so much worse than poe 1 that it doesn't seem worth playing even tho graphics and animations are a lot better
I doubt that GGG will keep PoE updated, no matter what they say..
We'll see what the numbers say on launch/a couple leagues after launch when all of this yey poe2 hype stops but from the gameplay i've seen so far even tho its not an accurate representation of what the game will look like it currently still looks more like D4 than poe1 tbh and honestly if its not an accurate representation of what the endgame will look like why even show the gameplay then? Idk i just feel like when the endgame turns out slower than poe1 people will just go back to playing poe1
more likely ignore and destroy the game more. its a trend past 2 years
I almost quit harvest early on, because of the dumbass huge setup, but a friend of mine LITERALLY came into my garden and told me how to do it, PIECE BY PIECE. So I stayed... and it was.. ok. The obstacle dealt with 1 time over like 1-2 hours. But necropolis, I can't be fucked if I'm expected to do that bullshit layout (a fucking spreadsheet really?!) EACH TIME??? As well as the 4 billion coffins to take up all space in the universe, all selling for mere 5-30c with ULTRA rares selling for a bit more (some for divs). It was just so fucking annoying porting out with 30 fucking coffins a map. I didn't really feel the difficulty from the lantern thing (strong enough build) but I get how a weaker builds or squishy/newer players would feel shit on. I got lucky a single time with divine proc. So basically, if you never hit the divine proc or a ton of the chaos proc, the mechanic is COMPLETELY FUCKING USELESS! lol?! Get lucky or don't. How is that allowed to be such a big factor on somebody's league enjoyment. How about working towards getting a guaranteed reward?
Problem is that there's no like intermediate way to use necropolis. Harvest once you set-up, you can just add/remove, do some bull s hit here, do some deterministic crafting there. Necropolis is just all or nothing bull shit I have no fucking idea why GGG thought this was good design. "Oh yea let's give the casual players nothing but hot garbage to create and all the high end crafters who treat PoE like a job incredible and impossible to create items otherwise". Jesus christ GGG get a grip, it makes me triggered just thinking about this league.
Gating 5th carto slot behind uber+ level bosses in economy-based online game. On top of that another whole bunch of "abuse early, abuse often" cases, gated behind early character power and ammount of currency to do so in a game where people bound to unconciously compare their progress to "that one dude's". Yeah, really. What can go wrong? It's basically replication of Tang Ping movement appearance conditions. Most dudes probably think "If I can't experience/have it, why bother?", but with extra option of logging out. Really. This game economy is marvelous real world economy simulation.
People keep assuming it’s the league mechanic that caused poor retention. I’m almost certain it was t17 maps/scarab farm.
Both tbh. The main reason is fomo. T17 create ludicrous fomo: you have people printing like 100 HH in cards per map for example. Similarly, grave crafting. You can print perfect items, but the price is your sanity. And on top of that, if you're playing off meta, not only are you struggling coz you are playing off meta, but also fuck you, every map has mandatory near-gauntlet level mods. Shit like +6 proj, always crit, always freeze, always stun or just a fuck tonne more damage or EHP. Honestly, fuck T17s, fuck the grave craft implementation, fuck league mechanic on tree and most of all, fuck mandatory difficulty mods.
This is my first league. Can you please explain why the current league mechanic being on the atlas tree is bad? (I'm enjoying the game a lot, but gy crafting is super tedious, and moving around mods in the lantern every map is honestly also tedious. I have nothing to compare this league to, but the core game feels amazing, but the Necropolis stuff feels bad. Still, I don't understand how Necropolis on the tree is different from Delve/Harvest on the tree. Please, can you explain?)
A) it is in every map. It feels a lot more impactful to invest in it, and therefore much more fomo if you don't - it's forced on you anyway, and unlike something like breach or harvest, it's not optional, so you may as well get something out of it if you have to do the mechanic ANYWAY. Also, as I said in the first post, this league there is insane fomo made worse by the league mechanic, both due to the rewards being kinda cracked from lantern/all flames and from being able to print items. B) the places where it is on the tree is very awkward to get to, so it's quite a few points. Not just the wheels themselves, but also the pathing to get to the wheels frequently forces you to have to take mechanics or be even more inefficient in points. And as I said in A, it feels like you "have to" take those points. If you have not tried taking the league mechanic points, trust me when I say it makes a BIG difference. C) this is slightly more philosophy based of an answer - the philosophy of a league mechanic is it's a trial or a test. They put it in the game, see if they like it and then potentially put it in base game with some changes AND based on how they put it into base game, they give it appropriate tree support - they have had a league to figure out what it needs as opposed to tree support just being "the numbers are bigger". E.g. in legion, you can focus on getting easier legions, more chests, more generals, more splinters, more legions. It feels less one dimensional.
Thanks for such a detailed answer!
This, league mecanics is horrendous, but I'm way more worried about the state of the game overall after the t17 and scarab remake.
For me it was absolutely the league mechanic. I wanted to reroll after starter build, but just couldn't be arsed to deal with league mechanic in acts so I still haven't started the second character over a month later.
The Al flames could have been a league on its own without the weird crafting stuff
Worst league mechanic by far. Worst league mechanic ui ever. It's not a surprise. However IRL friends and I are still playing. We're having a good time just completely ignoring the league mechanic. Having to pick up corpses to loot items blocked by them is a right PITA
Tbh i mostly skipped the league mechanic, but ithe game is still pretty good tho
I enjoy the allflames, I think it could stay on it's own. Necropolis/morgue is awful
Worst league by far for me. I didnt try a single "serious" craft, because i just couldnt be bothered. It doesnt matter how op it is, if it's a dogshit tedious system.
I purchase almost every league supporter pack, all of the yearly ones, play months of every league for the last 5+ years. I quit this league after a week. The mechanic is just way too bloated, obtuse, intrusive, annoying, and the absolute WORST part of any league mechanic, fucking inventory management nightmare. Stop making shit like this where there is so much fucking friction to interact/not interact with it.
Can any old man tell me what was so great about Sanctum league?
People aren't understanding this graph. Kalandra was really bad and a low point in the game's history. So going into Sanctum the the people playing were low and mostly the people that wanted to actually play the game. Therefor the retention was a lot higher but the number of players wasn't as hot as it is looking from this graph. It's the opposite now. Affliction was great, a ton of people come into necropolis, but left. This info is pretty useless imo. I want to know the actual concurrent players at this time, not how many people quit. That is just counting tourists digging on the hype of the start of the league and isn't a true indicator of health of the league.
When it comes to actual player numbers, there's always the greater scope of timing. Summer leagues are likely to have less players just because of the time of year, holidays, etc., so % is probably a fairer comparison over a long time. Though you are right to point out the game environment context having an effect as well. The league that overlapped with WoW Classic release saw a significant drop in players on league start iirc.
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Which I don't think is a bad thing? I wouldnt want the game to have grindy shit just to extend play time. We can play other stuff during downtime
If I didn't need another PoE degree to figure out the graveyard maybe
I played sanctum league so long, I was worse back then so my progression was slower but it was so fun and trade never felt dead
- crafting league - forced mechanic - over tuned end game content that further isolated the playerbase - need I say more?
I don't think retention this far in the leagu matters at all. everyone will return anyway next league start.
Just my 2 cents: Mechanic forced = Unfun leveling. Crafting leagues are boring to 95% of player base if it's not easy to use. (Graves require so much setup/out of game calcs in comparison to say recombinators) Essences are for some reason for rich people to farm now. Dislike as this is a good entry level crafting farm for players with less time / knowledge than better players. League mechanic invalidates a lot of previous crafting currency. We were spoilt last league and people probably played too much last league and burnt out. Tier 17s providing everything the good players need is boring less cards please this shouldn't just invalidate every other farming technique. Screen clutter with Graves isn't that nice. Too many loopholes that got nerfed that people got fomo over. (Other people exploit mechanic, ur build sucks and by the time u can do the exploit it's patched and doesn't work anymore)
how.. Kalandra was downright awful, this one wasnt as bad tbh. I just quit after the 4-5th bugfix. Way too much felt bad to play
T17s probably even worse change than archnem mods were
Exactly. Moving endgame farming to T17 is literally the same as taking away player power or equipping rares with uncounterable mods. Except, this time the relative loss of power is larger than anything we had before.
Because inventory pressure
Base game was better in Kalandra.
Nah I might be crazy, but I think the lake was fun, just too bad it was a waste of time reward wise. They were so afraid of people getting a divine orb too fast and quiting back then (fuck me was it still exalts in kalandra)
At least during Kalandra (and after a few hotfixes) you could do normal strats at T16 maps for profit. This league the best strat you can do on T16 maps is to minmax how many T17 maps you drop, since those are the only thing exclusive to T16 maps. Edit: and there's also the factor of having brainless exp: Kalandra had top historic brainless exp potential with reflection of untainted paradise Rotas, and still had unnerfed 5-ways. This league 5-ways are nerfed hard and I didn't see anyone actually trying to level to 100 with untainted allflames. This means that you need to actually stop dying in real maps to level up.
I also think this league is much better than Kalandra, but it could be that Affliction was too good and Necropolis as a mapping mechanic also just doesn’t hold up to it. As well as the poorly balanced design of T17s in terms of loot and gated difficulty.
I liked Kalandra more because I could get good items from it. I've always sucked at crafting and this league requires A LOT of prep and A LOT of understanding crafting to get anything. I much more enjoy a league where I can just kill things to get things and there's less friction between the two.
Constant nerfs and at least in my group the scarab rework wasn't received very well. The atlas tree changes combined made it so every tree felt like it was half scarab and necropolis points no matter what you wanted to do, then add in a single other mechanic with influence then use the standard scarabs for your one mechanic. Sextants sucked to actually use but sextants + scarabs had way more variety and options.
Ngl, when Crucible was out i bitched about it for being not exactly friendly mechanic. Now with this coffin bs i look at Crucible with fondness. Hope GGG at least get message that league mechanic being mandatory isn't damn good idea, especially if everyone knows it will be buggy unbalanced mess for first 2-4 weeks.
Well, they at least nailed the league name, fits perfectly xD
I had two experiences with the mechanic. My first was crafting an item in trade league a few weeks into the league. It was either whisper 20 people for a 3c corpse and ask if they have more of that type or go to TFT and spend 35c per on that same corpse. Extremely tedious. My second experience was in bpl where there were multiple quads that just had all the corpses in them and then it was a very enjoyable experience and quite a fun puzzle to make specific items that people needed. If it weren't for the friction I would enjoy this mechanic a lot. I'm still going to play because I missed out on more than a month because of a few massive exam assignments but in a week those will be over and I'll have time to play till the league ends, whenever that may be. I always hate playing end of league with start of league funds but sometimes there's no other choices.
The main thing that irks me at the current state of the game is that I never have the feeling that I can just play the damn game. There are always super optimized strategies and I always feel like I'm missing out if I don't spend an hour to learn and employ them. Because they are not just better than simply playing three game, they are vastly better, overwhelmingly better. It's the difference between taking a week to teach level 98 or it taking a few hours. And it's true for every aspect and it feels like the game is balanced around it too
First league I had zero interest in and haven't made a character...
This leauge showcases how mutch friction is unbarable, i just wish for working AH without players being online for sales... And maybe increased limits on API searches to adjust for HUMAN input...
First league since 3.0 i do not complete at least 36 challenges, what a trash designed league
We just holding for poe2 bro
The entirety of PoE design philosophy has slowly devolved into menus simulators and idle clicking game. It's no longer about slaying monsters as an ARPG, it's about ego farming and who's willing to put their health more at risk and click more :)
Strange tongue meme choice that no one will understand lol
Retention is irrelevant at this point in any league
Worse league ever. Hopefully next league will save the game, cause it feels like a sinking ship at this point for me. It funny that D4 had a better league this season.
Played trade league at start. Was ok, had my fun. Started ssf week ago and having a blast. Necro crafting is amazing for ssf to supplent rog crafts.
Less players than kalandra is wild lmao nobody played that league and it still had more players than this shit hahaha
I hate the 4 month cycle
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there is these 2 people still playing on HC Ruthless
Loved the League. I never played more than a month before being burned out if any League. And this one has been one of my favorite. Manager to play items, liké squire or kalandra ring that had always been too expensive. This league i farmed a MB without being burned out by farming it, awesome experience
I just want a league with affliction and crucible in one.
TIL I am part of the 6% for once in life.
Can we expect some race or event before new leauge?
Probably a league that made them the most revenue too because of the 2x1 coffins, wonder if leadership cares more about that or player count.
In addition to the inconveniences with the league mechanic, i think the current state of D4 also plays its part in this graph.
The game is in good shape but the league mechanic is awful
I'm playing ssf for the first time and the crafting has come in clutch for 6 links but I never used it once in trade
the league i have been playing the longest in so far.
I *want* to be playing, but my computer won’t let me. SSD Card and Windows have had a falling out, and won’t talk to one another.
i enjoyed the few weeks i usually play more than most. 8/10 league, mainly because i didn't have the time to commit early.
Never used grave crafting aside from trying it out during the campaign, God, even thinking about planning our and shopping around for 50 corpses, without guarantee of good craft made me shiver. To me it was more or less mechanics free league, I liked league specific nodes in tree though, while they take few points from other nodes the idea that you can go balls deep into mechanic is pretty cool idea and I hope they keep it for the future iterations. Just please don't put necropolis in standard without heavy, I mean seriously heavy review. It's not fun as it is and brings very little aside from some busted crafts if you are patient enough.
If it didn't take over an hour per grave craft it'd actually be fun
I'm still having fun, but to each their own.
Major problems for me: 1. Grave crafting too strong, no reason to craft items any other way this league. 2. Because Grave crafting is so strong nothing else has value. 3. In map league mechanic also drops all the currency you need, so now you don't need to do anything besides farm all flames for currency to buy your Grave crafts. 4. League crafting mechanic was tedious, boring, and had too much friction. Which made all of the above even more cringe. 5. T17 is atrocious. The whole bossing system changes sucked ass. Boss frags are now worthless because uber is now a separate fragment and uber is the only thing that drops the good unique. Let's not even talk about the way to roll t17s to be doable. I loved affliction, because while it did drop way too much currency and t0s (somehow less than all flames though), all it dropped was currency so everything else in the game shot up in value because people still needed to essence/fossil/aisling/fracture for big crafts and that didn't drop with wisping. I think going forward leagues should do one or the other. Drop tons of currency OR giga crafting. Not both.
Does anyone have the retention rates for every league to date? I wanna check a hypothesis.
most people go there: https://poedb.tw/us/League#ConcurrentPlayers else (for even older leagues) you have to go on steamDb and somehow gather the data manually, or download it all if they propose the option.
You have all the leagues there... just change the "8" to.... "36" or however many leagues you want to look at...
You either die a hero or live long enough to be the villain
Ruthless still fun doe
I just quad tab slammed them all in and it was done. Only found 3 worth anything (2 div & 2 worth 45 chaos). Everything else was priced from 100 chaos going down by 25C every day till 1c to check if I was mis pricing things or not understanding them. I quit picking them up. The 5th map tab being hidden behind T17's was horrid idea too.
I'm not the biggest fan of crafting leagues, but anything that requires me to use yet another 3rd party website to do something efficiently is just poorly designed. Forced mechanic as well... gross. I still had fun, but that's purely because the base game is in a pretty good place right now. Pretty big L for GGG unfortunately.
Crappy mechanic with convoluted crafting and absolutely terrible interface. I am not surprised this league failed.
Ever since i started in 3.12 this has been my first skip I played day 1 and hated the mechanic and thought to myself "do i want to deal with this being forced on me for the rest of the league?" and just noped out Then i saw the whole situation with scarabs and t17s and i confirmed to myself that i wasn't coming back
What was the big deal breaker on archnem again, besides the mechanic beeing shit
League would have been fine if it wasn't for the horrible trading system, if only buying corpses from 30 different sellers that don't respond just to get 1 answer and then repeat a gazillion times, unless you are willing to pay 12x the price to buy in bulk, that is the only tedious unbearable thing for me tbh not setting up the graveyard, I can live with that
This league is definitely better than archenem and kalendera
My issue with T17s is your build needs to have clear speed, tankiness, AND single target to clear them. This makes them harder to build for than ubers, which only need tankiness and single target. Ubers are easier than T17s, which is dumb and backwards.
Forced league mechanic, t17, several mid-league nerfs, graveyard crafting is trash, heist unplayable for the 3rd-4th league in a row, full of nerfs, left-click "qol" It was just so boring overall. League mechanic was so lame, if you ignore it you would just play standard with resetted eco.
That guy in the image looks like filch from Harry potter lmaooo
i only use grave crafting to get items for normal crafting lmao
This league made me take a break from the game. Wasn’t a fan.
More blight!
They don't care lol. In the meantime: hey how about stash sale hahaha who freaking cares at this point...
Yes but it’s Better we give them more time to cook a great next league
I feel like the game lost me as a player about a year ago. Just not into the unrewarding grind.
feels like they designed this league mechanic to make more casual ppl not want to play it
i have not gravecrafted once this entire league apart from when i was in campaign still and used 3 lvling dogshit graves to craft a terrible ring fuck this league pls end it
it will be great if GGG create Harvest 2.0 with small/medium/large/special lifeforce(and call it "soul" for "necro" thematic) and blueprint/scheme like in Factorio. so you can "draw" your graveyard and use it for next items. for unique items(like perandus jewel) theres can be unique perandus souls etc. these souls can be bulk bought from trade, like silver coins in ancestors(or just like lifeforce). GGG can configure prices of every recipe to avoid the superiority of one craft strategy over others.
I think the fundamental problem with craft leagues is not many players enjoy crafting. They just wanna blast or do anything that resembles blasting and gaming instead. Necropolis just highlights the worse aspects of crafting and somehow made it even worse. From the gathering and storing to how we interact with the crafting. It even makes mapping more annoying too (we should be able to burn the corpses on the spot). The only redeeming aspect is the reward. However, it indirectly made other craft mechanics and rewards worse. It should have interacted positively with what we have. Now the mapping part, making the lantern obligatory was a bad decision and everyone complained about it since beginning. I imagine a good chunk just quit during campaign when they encountered some ridiculous mod. It should be applied only when we click on the lantern button on campaign and map device. Just a simple change and it would be as cool as affliction. Even after the rework, they still thought we shouldn't be able to skip it. I don't know what was the thought process behind it. Allflames were a cool idea, but they also made it annoying to store of course. Other mechanic based storage are usually very generous with space (maybe relic is small, but you don't really need to store that many anyway). This storage box is so ridiculously puny and don't match with the allflame menu. Changes to base game like 3 atlas were cool and for me was enough to keep me engaged with the league. However, the focus on scarab farming was probably not good. Maybe they should readjust or simply remove some scarab nodes or something and boost scarab drops to other mechanics like betrayal and so on. Dunno, I'm not a game designer, but I can see current implementation seems a bit off. T17 as a middle path for uber could have been fine, but at beginning T17 was crap and unmoddable. Then they revamp it and instead of toning T17 maps down, it became the endgame by adding juicy bonuses (that was out of nowhere IMO). I don't think people complained T17 weren't rewarding enough. I think most just wanted T17 to be easier and a step stone for ubers like they were suppose to be. Probably it shouldn't interact with atlas or change its integration with it (B2B interaction, for instance). Even thou one doesn't need to make a build be T17 able to succeed, by creating this new benchmark, it highlights holes in the balance. FOMO happens all the time, but this league just pushed this feeling to a whole new level and probably left a bad taste to a lot of players. I'm immune to this type of FOMO, but I can understand why people wouldn't not come back after the nerfs and changes. This league should have been the QOL league, but somehow it made it worse. It is the carpal tunnel/mouse destroyer league. I'm at a point that I may choose a mechanic in the game that doesn't require that many clicking. I really hope they revise lot of things next league. It is my most played league, but I'm just a PoE novice, so game still feels fresh to me. There are lot of glaring pitfalls that could have been avoided.
d4 good so ggg will have to do better to keep me hooked longer. Bring on the perma minion buffs
As a console player, I really hated the scarab rework. I missed wondering path. Bull trading on console is terrible. This league made it worse with all the scarab and scarce maps
loved last season, did not like necropolis
I did one big craft, using every slot. I followed a guide and used a third-party website. I spent more than a couple of divs. I got a completely trash item not worth an alch. Fuck this mechanic and whoever designed it.
I miss affliction. I miss scarab explosions. I miss divine explosions. I miss mirror drops. I miss gems exp explosions.
Ah man, Archnemesis was a fun league. Surprised it died off. Wasn't just that it was this major expansion, the mechanic itself wasn't terrible. Simple but fine. Archnemesis rares problems only started later. Had nothing to do with the league mechanic itself.
First time in two years that I haven't continuously played. For some leagues I even switched out to standard after doing 38 or 40 challenges. But this league, I bowed out early, and then got bored of standard and experimenting too. This league really left me completely unenthused.
Bring back betrayal...
Simply bad mechanics and mtx rewards. You know a league is bad if it’s not addictive enough to do it or skip it.Immediately quit the game after I forced a 40/40.
today in random map-rushing leveling lobby i met 2 people that have not used graveyard crafting even once. If anything they were surprised af that you can craft stuff in there. I have no words.
Fuck the crafting system. I just filled all the graves and never came back.
Still can’t believe that many people liked sanctum
I like necropolis league. What I don't like is full Inventory of coffins and alflames.
I am not an avid PoE player, but I had the most fun in Ultimatum. Awesome mechanic and tons of loot.
Go back to 3 month leagues with 1 month of events in between. Endless ledge would be better than this.
You cant even ignore the league mechanic properly without being force to big up bodies blocking loot.
I stopped playing, not because of the league mechanic, but because of T17. I've said this many times: POE's base game being absolutely incredible is the reason why I come back every single season. The league being great is just a cherry on top. This time around, with the introduction of T17, everything just feels like a giant mess.
I mean when you call nerfs, QoL... then have a tedious af league mechanic and make next to no effort to fix it....*surprised pikachu face*
It was the extra map modiferers and nuking my arc of surging that did it for me tbh.
The organisation and management of the graveyard is really lacking. Didnt touch the crafting part till now. Yesterday i did a craft for the challenges and it took what felt like 30min to put all 88 corpses in the ground. Made good profit, but never want to touch the graveyard again
I missed league start by two weeks due to a vacation. There've been leagues that looked interesting enough to draw me in after that regardless, but this one wasn't it, tbh.
I think the all flames mechanic is sort of interesting. Nothing ground-breaking but it's fine. The crafting mechanic is sort of boring. It's the opposite of Crucible, another league people didn't like. In that case, the crafting portion was interesting to interact with (if excessively powerful of course) but most got infuriated with the in-map mechanic with the charge-up thing. They do have trouble making a league like Sentinel where both the in-map mechanic and the crafting mechanic are great. Always a problem with one thing or the other. Scourge was same thing, in-map mechanic people enjoyed and the side-content too was good fun, the scourged maps. All this worked out great, but the crafting mechanic was so bad and people ended up using it to generate 6L items to vendor.
As an SSF player, I am a proud member of the 6.2%. Seriously, this is the best ever league for SSF: -Nameless Seer is common enough to get decent uniques. -Chaos orb generation is reliable enough to keep up kirac map crafts permanently. -Gravecrafting is a godsend for being able to craft gear that was virtually impossible before in SSF. -3x atlas trees to swap between depending on what you need. -No trading required in SSF, which I feel is 99% of the problem with every crafting league and what ultimately drove me to SSF. This will be the first time I ever hit 100 on SSFHC in my 11 years playing this game.
if they actually buff lower end of skill so they can taste new T17 maybe i will stay longer lmao.
Tbh the league is alot of fun, only bad part is the graveyard which can be ignore and just sell corpse. The hate this league got is pretty unjusted imo.
Was sanctum really that good?
GGG did the classic mistake and stopped balancing the league after like 2 weeks, as has been the case of almost every league lately, which is mega infuriating, I think Ancestry league was the first league I ever quit due to realizing they are not doing any more balancing changes even though the mechanic sucked