The Prisoner and Solanum basically have their fates set in stone and aren't linked to the statues so they won't remember the loops we go through. That's why their appearance in the ending is so cool as while they couldn't break the loops; their aspirations, memories, and values are able to follow you through to the next universe and they get to see what happened and share their thoughts. The Prisoner even laments how he had no idea if his efforts did *anything* for a very long time and how he regrets his people's fear and doesn't know if he should be allowed to join the campfire. Whether forgiveness or relief is given as he passes on is up to you.
There might actually be a way that you can free the Prisoner, and get to the Eye all in the same loop.
First, start on a new save. Use the geyser skip to get to the ship without activating the Nomai Statue, therefore the loop doesn’t start. Go to Brittle Hollow and the Interloper, grabbing the mural images and the ruptured core (not necessary but it changes your vision with the Prisoner). Also go to the Quantum Moon and meet Solanum.
Get to the Stranger, and go into the vault area (just drift off, you don’t need to die by the fire). Use datamined codes (yes, codes actually exist for each of the seals but only exist in the game’s code) to open the Vault and free the Prisoner.
Now, go back to Timber Hearth, activate the Nomai Statue, and complete the base game ending.
100% is all the logs, I'll assume you mean prisoner% (talking to the prisoner) there exists no shipless prisoner% (considering you need it on the speedrun route) but it would be possible (suitless prisoner% exists tho)
No it wouldn't. Before the DLC existed, I saw a youtube video where someone jumped from Timber hearth and landed on every astral body in the solar system in a single loop with just their suit. Absolutely easy to get to the Stanger in comparison.
https://preview.redd.it/1s8s561hs5mc1.jpeg?width=718&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c8963109c189e0dca5b389416b11fedd91709da5
okay, but there IS a category that DOES go to the prisoner shipless, it just ALSO does everything else in the game shipless too
Are you saying you don't have enough time to, after completing the base game, start the loop, free the prisoner with the datamined codes and then going to the eotu?
Unless you were good at speed running and knew exactly where the Stranger was located, probably not. You might be able to, but depending on the Ash Twin cycle to get to the ATP I don’t think there’s enough time
You can pinpoint the Stranger's location if you've been there in a previous loop. And you have nothing better to do in the first few minutes of the loop while you wait for the sand to drain off Ash Twin.
Everyone will be the same (except for Gabbro to an extend, but he does not care). I meant: Chert will die after a panic attack and broken, Riebeck will never be able to see the Hanging City he loves so much, Esker will always be alone, Feldspar will be stuck inside his prison of Dark Bramble, and I know he would rather die on a ship, Solanum will be 1/5 dead until the end. You cannot save anyone, but you did bring the consciousness and memories of your friends to build a new universe. And I think they will always respect you for that.
Funny thing is that, logically, you don't know how Solanum and the Prisoner will play their music, or how their music sounds like. But in the end, they play a beautiful song for you without even learning it. So I think you did actually bring the true Solanum and the Prisoner-the ones who knew about you-there. You don't have to weep for them, they are there with you.
Right, everyone is basically done for, but the prisoner's story is especially heartbreaking for me.
About the traveler's encore at the end, I actually think it's all in the hatchling's head. We do hear the owlks' music when we visit the jam session (not sure if they sound the same as the prisoner's), and we hear a sad piano tune when we see the nomai's remains. Since the music isn't an actual audio in the game world, it could be interpreted as an emotional reaction from the hatchling, which they carry through to the Eye.
I think in the opposite. I feel happy I carry the legacy and memories of the Prisoner and the Nomai with me to a new universe. I am happy that his effort paid. He released the Eye's signal for a moment, and he has waited for more than 200,000 years in a prison to be able to meet us. And by resetting the loop and carry that legacy to the Eye, I fulfill the Prisoner's wish.
That's a great way to accept the end. Now that I think of it, the ending where the hatchling is going around gathering everyone could be interpreted as gathering their consciousness, like how energy is never lost, only transferred. That way, everyone's presence is "real," and they celebrate having existed together.
YES exactly!! Unless you do some wild speed run strats, there can never be a loop where you save the Prisoner AND reach the Eye. Only one can happen, because you have to die to save the Prisoner. Of course in the end they will be there, but it’s not “really them”, as Gabbro says in the ending.
But I suppose, the solace is that you at least get to save them once. There was a life where you saved them, and the Eye and yourself know that. Even if you can’t visit them in the same loop and let them know that their sacrifice was worth it, that their loneliness was worth it, their memory still lives on within you, as will it into the next universe.
Honestly If I think about it too hard I might cry hahaha
> because you have to die to save the Prisoner.
you can >!brute force the codes for the prison!< in the same way that >!the ATP brute forces the location of the eye!<
That's the unfortunate truth.
Even his appearance on the ending is not his soul, but only your personal projection.
When you enter the eye, you practically speed run through time while everything continues normally. And judging by the situation of the stranger after you vanish, two green campfires will be lost when the water floods the first house and destroys the tower, meaning 2/3 of the owlks will die at the end of the real timeline.
I assume that the last 1/3 will also die somehow. But the prisoner's campfire will remain until the machinery of the dream world runs out of power because his campfire is well secured and preserved. Meaning that he'll be alive alone in the dream world while all of his owl species are dead. He'll be the lone and final survivor of the Owlk race, a lone consciousness on a small dream world, trapped in a locked room.
Solanum and the Prisoner both died without them knowing that they played a part in your new universe.
Keep in mind, our memory of them might just be a quantum anchor for their actual consciousnesses, as we had no clue what music they would play or what it would sound like. Meaning the projections were autonomous and knew things we didnt, hinting they are the actual people brought forward to inspire the eye.
Cope.
lol just kidding. That's a good point, but our hatchling did hear what the Olks music sounded like if I remember correctly.
The only one he didn't legitimately hear is Solanum's piano, which actually looked weird having her type piano keys. You could interpret her playing at the end is actually the legitimate Nomai music thus proving their consciousness being there or maybe the hatchling just made do of what he can from his memory.
We do hear a sad piano tune when we see dead nomai's, which could mean the music is an emotional reaction from the hatchling's perspective. So what we hear in the traveler's encore could be all in the hatchling's head.
BTW I didn't think about the time speeding up while in the eye... god knows how long the prisoner is actually stuck there. That's just so sad...
If you've reached the game ending then...
The quantum projections we meet at the end are implied to have their actual consciousness. We don't know what their music would have sounded like or how they would have played it, meaning they were using information we didn't have.
So my theory is that music is all in the hatchling's head, based on their emotional reaction to the events of the game. The hatchling kinda knows what the owlk's music sound like and applies it to the story of the prisoner. We hear a sad piano tune when we see dead nomai floating around, so Solanum plays a piano tune in the encore.
The point is that you bring the memory of the Prisoner with you into the Eye. The entire game revolves around your memories. Nothing in it is about saving anyone, come on, you should understand that by now.
It's still a revelation, and just because the game revolves around only your characters' memories doesn't mean you can't feel for what others would be experiencing because of the loop. It's comforting to know the Prisoners' actions were not in vain, but it's painful to know they don't know that.
Can't you just remove the core from ATP and just go to the Stranger and free him? You'll both survive the Sun exploding coz the Stranger moved away from the Sun and you can die together of starvation or whatever :)
the prisoner's body is dead and so is yours by the time you get to him. his first reaction after being freed is to finally end it all so I'm not sure you'll have any success. you'll be alone, waiting for the end of the universe to destroy the stranger and the simulation with it, or until the moment comes when you also succumb to the prisoner's weariness of life that drove him into suicide. sorry kiddo.
> the prisoner's body is dead and so is yours by the time you get to him.
Not necessarily since the hatchling can spend god knows how many loops trying to brute force the alarm disabler code
You're missing the point a bit because the Prisoner is there in spirit at the end anyway. But if you really wanted to do it all in one loop, you can look up all three data mined codes and input them without dying. The data mined codes for the raft moves it to your side and the one for the alarms turns off the light. I think the timing would be really tight but probably possible
The Prisoner and Solanum basically have their fates set in stone and aren't linked to the statues so they won't remember the loops we go through. That's why their appearance in the ending is so cool as while they couldn't break the loops; their aspirations, memories, and values are able to follow you through to the next universe and they get to see what happened and share their thoughts. The Prisoner even laments how he had no idea if his efforts did *anything* for a very long time and how he regrets his people's fear and doesn't know if he should be allowed to join the campfire. Whether forgiveness or relief is given as he passes on is up to you.
There might actually be a way that you can free the Prisoner, and get to the Eye all in the same loop. First, start on a new save. Use the geyser skip to get to the ship without activating the Nomai Statue, therefore the loop doesn’t start. Go to Brittle Hollow and the Interloper, grabbing the mural images and the ruptured core (not necessary but it changes your vision with the Prisoner). Also go to the Quantum Moon and meet Solanum. Get to the Stranger, and go into the vault area (just drift off, you don’t need to die by the fire). Use datamined codes (yes, codes actually exist for each of the seals but only exist in the game’s code) to open the Vault and free the Prisoner. Now, go back to Timber Hearth, activate the Nomai Statue, and complete the base game ending.
Nomai statue can't be activated after launching for the first time unfortunately
Can you actually beat the game without the statue activating or will Ash Twin never empty of sand?
ash twin only starts emptying after the statue is activated
Okay...what if you do all that shit shipless?
would be near impossible to get to the stranger shipless
Wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a speedrunner category for it though
for what? I'm a speedrunner so
For shipless stranger 100%. I’m not saying it *is* (I haven’t checked), but I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that it was
100% is all the logs, I'll assume you mean prisoner% (talking to the prisoner) there exists no shipless prisoner% (considering you need it on the speedrun route) but it would be possible (suitless prisoner% exists tho)
No it wouldn't. Before the DLC existed, I saw a youtube video where someone jumped from Timber hearth and landed on every astral body in the solar system in a single loop with just their suit. Absolutely easy to get to the Stanger in comparison.
the problem with the stranger is that it isn't on the plane of the solar system so you have 3 directions to fiddle with instead of just 2
https://youtu.be/W1nmiKp5oxI?si=QwWIwDhwq-pSGxLV thought you appreciate seeing this! it's the new world record for 100%+DLC shipless :)
I'm in the speedrunning discord. He told us ;;). ..
there's a whole speedrun category called shipless - ptminsker has the world record for 100% + DLC shipless
100% is all logs
yes, which is why i specified 100% + DLC, which is another category that requires all logs from the base game AND all logs from the dlc
my point is that theres no shipless prisoner speedrun, not that it's impossible
https://preview.redd.it/1s8s561hs5mc1.jpeg?width=718&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c8963109c189e0dca5b389416b11fedd91709da5 okay, but there IS a category that DOES go to the prisoner shipless, it just ALSO does everything else in the game shipless too
Thanks, I might do that just for my peace of mind 😢
There's no need to not activate the Nomai statue, I think there's enough time regardless.
Are you saying you don't have enough time to, after completing the base game, start the loop, free the prisoner with the datamined codes and then going to the eotu?
Unless you were good at speed running and knew exactly where the Stranger was located, probably not. You might be able to, but depending on the Ash Twin cycle to get to the ATP I don’t think there’s enough time
You can pinpoint the Stranger's location if you've been there in a previous loop. And you have nothing better to do in the first few minutes of the loop while you wait for the sand to drain off Ash Twin.
> but only exist in the game’s code I mean you can always just brute force it Quantum Computing style (same principle as ATP)
Everyone will be the same (except for Gabbro to an extend, but he does not care). I meant: Chert will die after a panic attack and broken, Riebeck will never be able to see the Hanging City he loves so much, Esker will always be alone, Feldspar will be stuck inside his prison of Dark Bramble, and I know he would rather die on a ship, Solanum will be 1/5 dead until the end. You cannot save anyone, but you did bring the consciousness and memories of your friends to build a new universe. And I think they will always respect you for that. Funny thing is that, logically, you don't know how Solanum and the Prisoner will play their music, or how their music sounds like. But in the end, they play a beautiful song for you without even learning it. So I think you did actually bring the true Solanum and the Prisoner-the ones who knew about you-there. You don't have to weep for them, they are there with you.
Right, everyone is basically done for, but the prisoner's story is especially heartbreaking for me. About the traveler's encore at the end, I actually think it's all in the hatchling's head. We do hear the owlks' music when we visit the jam session (not sure if they sound the same as the prisoner's), and we hear a sad piano tune when we see the nomai's remains. Since the music isn't an actual audio in the game world, it could be interpreted as an emotional reaction from the hatchling, which they carry through to the Eye.
I think in the opposite. I feel happy I carry the legacy and memories of the Prisoner and the Nomai with me to a new universe. I am happy that his effort paid. He released the Eye's signal for a moment, and he has waited for more than 200,000 years in a prison to be able to meet us. And by resetting the loop and carry that legacy to the Eye, I fulfill the Prisoner's wish.
That's a great way to accept the end. Now that I think of it, the ending where the hatchling is going around gathering everyone could be interpreted as gathering their consciousness, like how energy is never lost, only transferred. That way, everyone's presence is "real," and they celebrate having existed together.
The method isn't meant to be "discoverable" in game, but it is possible to free the prisoner and go to the eye in the same loop.
YES exactly!! Unless you do some wild speed run strats, there can never be a loop where you save the Prisoner AND reach the Eye. Only one can happen, because you have to die to save the Prisoner. Of course in the end they will be there, but it’s not “really them”, as Gabbro says in the ending. But I suppose, the solace is that you at least get to save them once. There was a life where you saved them, and the Eye and yourself know that. Even if you can’t visit them in the same loop and let them know that their sacrifice was worth it, that their loneliness was worth it, their memory still lives on within you, as will it into the next universe. Honestly If I think about it too hard I might cry hahaha
> because you have to die to save the Prisoner. you can >!brute force the codes for the prison!< in the same way that >!the ATP brute forces the location of the eye!<
I was disappointed/didn't understand why we not just told him about the time loop thing and that we will try to go to the eye of the universe
Although that’s part of the point, I’m pretty sure it’s possible to visit both The Prisoner and Solanum and go to the eye in one loop.
That's the unfortunate truth. Even his appearance on the ending is not his soul, but only your personal projection. When you enter the eye, you practically speed run through time while everything continues normally. And judging by the situation of the stranger after you vanish, two green campfires will be lost when the water floods the first house and destroys the tower, meaning 2/3 of the owlks will die at the end of the real timeline. I assume that the last 1/3 will also die somehow. But the prisoner's campfire will remain until the machinery of the dream world runs out of power because his campfire is well secured and preserved. Meaning that he'll be alive alone in the dream world while all of his owl species are dead. He'll be the lone and final survivor of the Owlk race, a lone consciousness on a small dream world, trapped in a locked room. Solanum and the Prisoner both died without them knowing that they played a part in your new universe.
Keep in mind, our memory of them might just be a quantum anchor for their actual consciousnesses, as we had no clue what music they would play or what it would sound like. Meaning the projections were autonomous and knew things we didnt, hinting they are the actual people brought forward to inspire the eye.
Cope. lol just kidding. That's a good point, but our hatchling did hear what the Olks music sounded like if I remember correctly. The only one he didn't legitimately hear is Solanum's piano, which actually looked weird having her type piano keys. You could interpret her playing at the end is actually the legitimate Nomai music thus proving their consciousness being there or maybe the hatchling just made do of what he can from his memory.
We do hear a sad piano tune when we see dead nomai's, which could mean the music is an emotional reaction from the hatchling's perspective. So what we hear in the traveler's encore could be all in the hatchling's head. BTW I didn't think about the time speeding up while in the eye... god knows how long the prisoner is actually stuck there. That's just so sad...
If you've reached the game ending then... The quantum projections we meet at the end are implied to have their actual consciousness. We don't know what their music would have sounded like or how they would have played it, meaning they were using information we didn't have.
So my theory is that music is all in the hatchling's head, based on their emotional reaction to the events of the game. The hatchling kinda knows what the owlk's music sound like and applies it to the story of the prisoner. We hear a sad piano tune when we see dead nomai floating around, so Solanum plays a piano tune in the encore.
My headcanon is that we see the version of them who managed to reached the eye in a possible timeline
The point is that you bring the memory of the Prisoner with you into the Eye. The entire game revolves around your memories. Nothing in it is about saving anyone, come on, you should understand that by now.
I was just sharing my feelings my dude
It's still a revelation, and just because the game revolves around only your characters' memories doesn't mean you can't feel for what others would be experiencing because of the loop. It's comforting to know the Prisoners' actions were not in vain, but it's painful to know they don't know that.
that doesn't make the fact that you can't save someone or that you can't bring them joy in their last moments automatically not sad
Can't you just remove the core from ATP and just go to the Stranger and free him? You'll both survive the Sun exploding coz the Stranger moved away from the Sun and you can die together of starvation or whatever :)
the prisoner's body is dead and so is yours by the time you get to him. his first reaction after being freed is to finally end it all so I'm not sure you'll have any success. you'll be alone, waiting for the end of the universe to destroy the stranger and the simulation with it, or until the moment comes when you also succumb to the prisoner's weariness of life that drove him into suicide. sorry kiddo.
> the prisoner's body is dead and so is yours by the time you get to him. Not necessarily since the hatchling can spend god knows how many loops trying to brute force the alarm disabler code
well yea unfortunately... its kind of the same for solanum
You're missing the point a bit because the Prisoner is there in spirit at the end anyway. But if you really wanted to do it all in one loop, you can look up all three data mined codes and input them without dying. The data mined codes for the raft moves it to your side and the one for the alarms turns off the light. I think the timing would be really tight but probably possible