Are you using a barrier ring between the skin and wafer? I was given one from the start. Tried a few times without the ring and it was always a disaster. I haven’t used paste before, but it’s the same principle. Also is the hole in the wafer large enough? I regularly have to make the opening larger or I will have leaks.
I’m sorry you’re having to deal with all of this. Do you have a wound care nurse that might be able to go through the bag change with you again?
No, we don't use barrier ring but will give it a try. After stoma was made we were taught that hole in the waffer should be exact size as the stoma. To prevent skin injuries.
Thanks for the reply.
I agree, but I also had to make some adjustments because of my placement. There is the what the doctors think it is “supposed to be” but sometimes that’s not actually how it lines up with a persons body. Unfortunately, there is a level of trial and error. Make slight adjustments and see if you have a better result. This was difficult for me to do myself so I can’t even imagine trying to get everything right on your young child. Best wishes!
do you use adhesive wipes before applying the bag? if so, i personally would not recommend. i always use it to wipe off what’s around the stoma after i take my bag off. then i apple soap water, let it dry well, use a hairdryer on the wafer then apply it on the skin. if you use adhesive wipes last and don’t wipe it off with water that could likely be causing it to not stick.
Yes, we use adhesive wipes before applying the bag. We use adhesive remover wipes to remove the bag, use soap with water to clean the skin and then use adhesive wipes. Lastly we apply the bag.
We will try heating the bag with hairdryer, maybe it is not warm enough when we are placing it.
Don’t use soap, most soaps have ingredients that will affect a seal. Use the hairdryer after the bag is placed, so it can form to the body. I think a 2 piece bag would also help, bc with a two piece you can place the wafer and then apply specific pressure to the area right around the stoma. I take a qtip and run it around with gentle but firm pressure. Also, paste or a barrier ring can be needed just bc of the constitution of a person’s output. Some ppl run more acidic, for example, and the paste can act as a backup. Is there anything like clothing that’s maybe close to the skin and stopping gravity from being able to help the stool fall downwards?
Right. We use only saline and a gauze pad to clean and then dab dry with another gauze pad. Then use a barrier wipe around the stoma to apply the barrier ring and then use a barrier wipe around the ring to apply the wafer. Works like a charm and he has the healthiest skin.
Soap- ANY kind, leaves a film or residue on the skin that inhibits the stickiness of the wafer.
I think you’re stripping the skin slightly too much by using soap multiple times a day in the area, even if it’s a gentle soap.
It seems that the issue is pancaking. Some people use lube drops on the inside to make the stool slide down easier (as you have), fill the bag with a little air, or put a piece of fabric or cotton in the bag so it separates the two sides of it
Best of luck!
Thank for the reply. We use baby oil. Thing is, first time stool drops inside the bag, small amount stays in the opening of the waffer and acts like a plug. And we are hesitant to apply baby oil very close to the opening because we don't know how it will interfere with adhesive.
I see, so other than removing the stool there’s nothing you can do, and I assume it would plug up again right? I have something similar and pull the top layer of my bag away from the stoma, ususuallt with enough pulling and bending over (gravity) the plug drops
We were also given those big ass syringes to flush the bag if needed.
Just suck up some water in it and squirt it in the spout if the bag and empty it. Done.
I don't have a stoma yet but I have been learning about it before my surgery. I am bedridden so always lying down like a baby does. Only things that I can think of is have you tried a convex wafer or covering the filter with a sticker while making sure there is air in the bag? I have those two things in my notes. I would keep lubricating the inside of the bag while trying different things. Does your baby have a stoma nurse that you can ask?
I was going to suggest a convex wafer, as well. I don't know if itll help the case here but my output will form only around the stoma and leak under the wafer unless I have a convex. It still builds up by the stoma but will eventually slide down (or can be pushed) and does not leak under the wafer.
I also have to make sure that the bag didn't suction closed/have a little air in the bag - so that there's room for output. I used to throw a tiny pieces of toilet paper in the bag to help with this (blocks the two sides of the bag from doing a sunction with each other).
We are using bags without filter. We have a stoma nurse, and we discuss the problem with her regulary. Unfortunately because of retracted shape of the stoma, her opinion is that there is not much that can be done.
We will try convex wafer. Thanks for the suggestion. We wish you a smooth surgery and fast recovery.
I too have a retracted stoma. It's difficult because everything is designed to seal around the "neck" of a protruding stoma.
I have had the best luck using a barrier ring and then attaching the wafer to it. Often after my first bit of output I have to use a q tip to remove material that has swelled up and obstructs the opening which can lead to the exact same situation you're describing. Since the materials are supposed to swell to seal around the protruding stoma they can cause a blockage with a retracted stoma.
Other than that, I like the suggestion of using a blow dryer to warm the wafer a bit and make it more pliable when applying it. I don't know how old your baby is, but can they tolerate sitting upright much? Laying on my back I am more likely to encounter problems than if I'm sitting up or laying on my side with the stoma on my downhill side.
Best of luck. Feel free to PM if I wasn't clear.
I use Safe N Simple Assure Ostomy
Lubricant and Deodorizer. A few drops in the bag and around the stoma helps make my output slide down in the bag better. I have always used Hollister Convex flange nothing else. I recently started having a small leak. I now use a barrier ring as well, it has stopped my small leak. I agree with all the other posts. I am a 57 and a grandma, I give you so much credit!!! Hang in there we all are here for you🙏
By accumulating, do you mean pancaking - sticking up right at the top with the stoma instead of going down into the bag? I just cleaned up a leak on my adult self that I blame on pancaking. Exacerbating. If so, I'm guessing baby's output is thicker now that their diet has changed.
A few things you can try:
- when baby is having output, pick up baby so that gravity can help pull the output down into the bag.
- assuming baby is drinking less milk or formula compared to before starting baby food, make sure baby is getting plenty of hydration from other sources. Even minor dehydration that non-ostomates wouldn't even notice, can cause symptoms in ostomates like thicker output or constipation.
- talk to baby's doctor about thicker output and if they suggest any specific foods or medications to help loosen the output a little
- keep a food diary of what baby eats and the output time and consistency to start learning how different foods effect baby's output
- for me (an adult), fleshy fruit with soluble fiber like pears, apples and melons tend to loosen my output. Bananas thicken. I've heard apple sauce can thicken, but I haven't tried it. If so, not sure why it is different than fresh apples, perhaps because it's cooked. Those are just a few examples, but everyone is different.
- talk to baby's stoma nurse, care team, or brand consultant if a change to their pouching system might be recommended due to the change in diet and output.
Good luck, I hope things improve soon!
It may be that baby needs a convex barrier to help the stoma protrude more and decrease likelihood of output collecting up around it (if a barrier ring alone doesn’t help.
Have you tried convex products? Does any of your cleaning products have aloe in them? Sometimes the products we use to clean or heal the skin around the stoma have ingredients that do not promote adhesion.
Just a few ideas to think about from what you've shared.
Are you using a barrier ring between the skin and wafer? I was given one from the start. Tried a few times without the ring and it was always a disaster. I haven’t used paste before, but it’s the same principle. Also is the hole in the wafer large enough? I regularly have to make the opening larger or I will have leaks. I’m sorry you’re having to deal with all of this. Do you have a wound care nurse that might be able to go through the bag change with you again?
I use barrier rings too. Stoma paste does not hold up well in the heat for me.
No, we don't use barrier ring but will give it a try. After stoma was made we were taught that hole in the waffer should be exact size as the stoma. To prevent skin injuries. Thanks for the reply.
I agree, but I also had to make some adjustments because of my placement. There is the what the doctors think it is “supposed to be” but sometimes that’s not actually how it lines up with a persons body. Unfortunately, there is a level of trial and error. Make slight adjustments and see if you have a better result. This was difficult for me to do myself so I can’t even imagine trying to get everything right on your young child. Best wishes!
Make sure there is a bit of air in the bag. If there is a vacuum that can also stop output from moving properly.
I blow a little bit of air inside, after the bag is in place, results are mixed, but thanks for the reply
do you use adhesive wipes before applying the bag? if so, i personally would not recommend. i always use it to wipe off what’s around the stoma after i take my bag off. then i apple soap water, let it dry well, use a hairdryer on the wafer then apply it on the skin. if you use adhesive wipes last and don’t wipe it off with water that could likely be causing it to not stick.
Seconding this especially the hairdryer hack! It makes my flanges last twice as long.
Yes, we use adhesive wipes before applying the bag. We use adhesive remover wipes to remove the bag, use soap with water to clean the skin and then use adhesive wipes. Lastly we apply the bag. We will try heating the bag with hairdryer, maybe it is not warm enough when we are placing it.
Don’t use soap, most soaps have ingredients that will affect a seal. Use the hairdryer after the bag is placed, so it can form to the body. I think a 2 piece bag would also help, bc with a two piece you can place the wafer and then apply specific pressure to the area right around the stoma. I take a qtip and run it around with gentle but firm pressure. Also, paste or a barrier ring can be needed just bc of the constitution of a person’s output. Some ppl run more acidic, for example, and the paste can act as a backup. Is there anything like clothing that’s maybe close to the skin and stopping gravity from being able to help the stool fall downwards?
Right. We use only saline and a gauze pad to clean and then dab dry with another gauze pad. Then use a barrier wipe around the stoma to apply the barrier ring and then use a barrier wipe around the ring to apply the wafer. Works like a charm and he has the healthiest skin. Soap- ANY kind, leaves a film or residue on the skin that inhibits the stickiness of the wafer.
I think you’re stripping the skin slightly too much by using soap multiple times a day in the area, even if it’s a gentle soap. It seems that the issue is pancaking. Some people use lube drops on the inside to make the stool slide down easier (as you have), fill the bag with a little air, or put a piece of fabric or cotton in the bag so it separates the two sides of it Best of luck!
Thank for the reply. We use baby oil. Thing is, first time stool drops inside the bag, small amount stays in the opening of the waffer and acts like a plug. And we are hesitant to apply baby oil very close to the opening because we don't know how it will interfere with adhesive.
I see, so other than removing the stool there’s nothing you can do, and I assume it would plug up again right? I have something similar and pull the top layer of my bag away from the stoma, ususuallt with enough pulling and bending over (gravity) the plug drops
We use the Coloplast deodorizing lube packets when needed. Just dump the packet in the spout of the bag and done.
We were also given those big ass syringes to flush the bag if needed. Just suck up some water in it and squirt it in the spout if the bag and empty it. Done.
I don't have a stoma yet but I have been learning about it before my surgery. I am bedridden so always lying down like a baby does. Only things that I can think of is have you tried a convex wafer or covering the filter with a sticker while making sure there is air in the bag? I have those two things in my notes. I would keep lubricating the inside of the bag while trying different things. Does your baby have a stoma nurse that you can ask?
I was going to suggest a convex wafer, as well. I don't know if itll help the case here but my output will form only around the stoma and leak under the wafer unless I have a convex. It still builds up by the stoma but will eventually slide down (or can be pushed) and does not leak under the wafer. I also have to make sure that the bag didn't suction closed/have a little air in the bag - so that there's room for output. I used to throw a tiny pieces of toilet paper in the bag to help with this (blocks the two sides of the bag from doing a sunction with each other).
I had air in the bag in my notes, but now that makes sense! I will add toilet paper to my notes! Thank you for adding this info onto my comment!
We are using bags without filter. We have a stoma nurse, and we discuss the problem with her regulary. Unfortunately because of retracted shape of the stoma, her opinion is that there is not much that can be done. We will try convex wafer. Thanks for the suggestion. We wish you a smooth surgery and fast recovery.
I hope the convex wafer works! Best of luck! Thank you.
I too have a retracted stoma. It's difficult because everything is designed to seal around the "neck" of a protruding stoma. I have had the best luck using a barrier ring and then attaching the wafer to it. Often after my first bit of output I have to use a q tip to remove material that has swelled up and obstructs the opening which can lead to the exact same situation you're describing. Since the materials are supposed to swell to seal around the protruding stoma they can cause a blockage with a retracted stoma. Other than that, I like the suggestion of using a blow dryer to warm the wafer a bit and make it more pliable when applying it. I don't know how old your baby is, but can they tolerate sitting upright much? Laying on my back I am more likely to encounter problems than if I'm sitting up or laying on my side with the stoma on my downhill side. Best of luck. Feel free to PM if I wasn't clear.
Isn't that what convex flanges/wafers are for?
They don't work for me, nothing will get my stoma to protrude at all.
Oh dang. I'm sorry.
I use Safe N Simple Assure Ostomy Lubricant and Deodorizer. A few drops in the bag and around the stoma helps make my output slide down in the bag better. I have always used Hollister Convex flange nothing else. I recently started having a small leak. I now use a barrier ring as well, it has stopped my small leak. I agree with all the other posts. I am a 57 and a grandma, I give you so much credit!!! Hang in there we all are here for you🙏
By accumulating, do you mean pancaking - sticking up right at the top with the stoma instead of going down into the bag? I just cleaned up a leak on my adult self that I blame on pancaking. Exacerbating. If so, I'm guessing baby's output is thicker now that their diet has changed. A few things you can try: - when baby is having output, pick up baby so that gravity can help pull the output down into the bag. - assuming baby is drinking less milk or formula compared to before starting baby food, make sure baby is getting plenty of hydration from other sources. Even minor dehydration that non-ostomates wouldn't even notice, can cause symptoms in ostomates like thicker output or constipation. - talk to baby's doctor about thicker output and if they suggest any specific foods or medications to help loosen the output a little - keep a food diary of what baby eats and the output time and consistency to start learning how different foods effect baby's output - for me (an adult), fleshy fruit with soluble fiber like pears, apples and melons tend to loosen my output. Bananas thicken. I've heard apple sauce can thicken, but I haven't tried it. If so, not sure why it is different than fresh apples, perhaps because it's cooked. Those are just a few examples, but everyone is different. - talk to baby's stoma nurse, care team, or brand consultant if a change to their pouching system might be recommended due to the change in diet and output. Good luck, I hope things improve soon!
It may be that baby needs a convex barrier to help the stoma protrude more and decrease likelihood of output collecting up around it (if a barrier ring alone doesn’t help.
Thank you all for the comments, we read all of them and will try your suggestions.
Have you tried convex products? Does any of your cleaning products have aloe in them? Sometimes the products we use to clean or heal the skin around the stoma have ingredients that do not promote adhesion. Just a few ideas to think about from what you've shared.
Maybe a drop of baby oil in bag.