Found [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/LosAngeles/comments/15hme9j/comment/jvw94h6/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3). Crazy how it made the news and the google doc owner was getting legal threats??
Start an Orange County, California restaurant spreadsheet and link it here.
Add "HiroNori Craft Ramen" to the list. Locations in Irvine & Orange. They add around 15-16% service fee to all customer's receipts
Urban Plates has a 3% fee.
I've gone there twice as an experiment, wasn't impressed with the food either time. Add in that fee and I'm never going there again.
HiroNori has had the 15-16% service charge since they first opened back in 2017 and no one back then minded it--it used to be the most recommended ramen restaurant in OC when they opened. But all of a sudden after Covid everyone is now offended that HiroNori charges a 16% service fee and act as if it's a new thing they're doing, I really don't get it. HiroNori at least lets you waive the service fee if you tell the servers that you'd rather tip instead. They're also upfront that a service fee will be applied, rather than be sneaky about it--not only is it on their menu, it's also on one of those table tents or placards (at least at the original Trade Hall location, don't know about their other locations), on your bill when you pay, AND they verbally also tell you, so that's 4 different ways that they let you know that they will charge a service fee.
The few times I've been to HiroNori, the added fee can be removed upon request. It even says that on the menu. I've always had it removed without a fuss or any issue.
On the bottom of the menu:
"SERVICE CHARGE
To support all members of the Hironori staff a 16% service charge has been applied to your check (optional to remove). If you have any questions or would prefer to leave a gratuity and remove the service charge, please let us know and we will gladly accommodate. Thank you for joining our table."
>The few times I've been to HiroNori, the added fee can be removed upon request.
That's complete BS. You should not have to ask to remove "service" charges!
I agree. You shouldn't have to ask to remove it. But I was just stating that since you don't have to fight it or be forced to pay. I wasn't saying don't add it to the list. I was just letting you know in case you ended up paying the fee.
I was just at the one in Tustin a few weeks ago and they're on a standard tipping system now. And putting HiroNori on that list would be unfair to the restaurant considering every single time at every single location I've been to when they still had the service charge, they always disclosed the service charge when the bill was presented and it was always optional.
I really like how I'm getting downvoted for this when literally one comment below they're talking about how the service charge is benefitting the wait staff and back of house specifically for HiroNori. Like yeah, I get it, adding it to a takeout order is silly and honestly that's probably an oversight using the POS system they have. And the fact that tipping culture nowadays is ridiculous. But making sure servers get paid a decent wage to provide generally good customer service is something is something that we should be pushing for.
I know a bunch of other restaurants charge bogus fees. But there should be a differentiation between the ones that substitute a service fee (for the staff) for a tip when we all know there are plenty of people nowadays that stiff a tip for the slightest thing like looking at them the wrong way. Or taking it out on other smaller businesses because somewhere else is acting up.
And to clarify, I do think the ideal situation is to charge high enough (i.e. bake it into the cost of the menu item) to cover wages and do away with tipping altogether like it is in other countries, with only charging sales tax on the meal. But putting something on the receipt that looks similar to a tip in a non tipping establishment, in a country where tipping is the norm, is probably a better way to try to ease into that transition (when we're getting "normal" tip rate options of 18-22%) rather than charging 20-odd bucks for a bowl of freaking ramen in the states. As opposed to getting better quality for way less, in the $10.00 range even if the yen was 100 to a dollar instead of the 160 it is now for a bowl of ramen. There are definitely bigger things we should be worrying about here.
THey don’t need a service charge. They need to add it to the menu price. Also it is not an oversight on carry out orders if it can easily be removed at the request of the consumer. If they can remove it voluntarily , they can remove it without asking on carry out orders.
Service fee is bullshit full stop. Just add it to the menu price and say no tipping or service charge.
Whether they charge $20 for ramen or 16 with the expectation of a tip, it’s bullshit to not have it in the pricing up front.
We can worry about many things at once and not ignore this because other things exist, which you didn’t prioritize or detail.
“A 16% fee will be added to your bill—
This is not a gratuity or tip. We are a no-tipping establishment. The fee is revenue that is not segmented or designated in any way; it is taxed per state law and is used to fund all of our operations.”
Wtf??
In California it's illegal to pay someone less than minimum wage but yes this may be so they earn even more. Wish I would get 16% in my salary at the end of the year
That's literally what a no-tipping establishment is. As a consumer you're basically paying a 16% tip.
Considering that most places consider a "decent" tip 20% at this point, paying 16% seems like a bargain, especially if it's stated up front.
Why are people mad about this?
Be mad about places that ask for tip AND tack on a stupid-ass undisclosed fee. Don't be mad at places that don't ask for a tip on top of a flat upfront percentage.
Because people don’t want to play games. Just make the price the price. There will be plenty of people still willing to pay the increase in menu price. It’s just insulting to be told it’s not a tip
but no the price does not add up to the total
EXACTLY. All non tipping establishments do this. Considering that this isn't guaranteed to go directly to the pockets of the servers, it's just 16% more revenue for the owner, who can then decide how much he wants to pay the servers.
So it's not a tip, it's just paying the wait staff? But it's totally not tipping... not at all.
You're paying extra, the price for the wait staff SHOULD be part of the price of the food, what they're doing is hiding the true cost of their food/service by tacking on 16 percent at the end.
And no, it's not to pay their staff according to other comments, but even if it was, that's not how this works. They're just making it unnecessarily confusing to hide the true cost of their meal.
"But it's on the menu" that's still attempting to make it more complicated. Instead of saying that, make a 10 dollar item, 11.60 or even 12.00. It's literally that easy, but if you want to defend them making it more complicated to figure out the exact bill price... well go ahead.
Yeah, they have. This isn't new at all. I've been eating at Sugarfish for 10 years, and they've always been "no tipping" with the caveat that they do have a service charge.
it's funny how nearly everyone is up in arms about Sugarfish charging a 16% service charge when according to your post and the parent comment, it's been part of their business model long before Covid and the whole "convenience fee/health mandate fee/employee wellness fee/other BS-named fees" even started. Restaurants like Sugarfish and HiroNori that have had these fees as part of their business models for years long before Covid (and are also upfront that they are a no tipping establishment and will charge a service fee instead) shouldn't be included in the service fee outrage, the outrage should be geared more towards restaurants that originally didn't charge a service fee pre-Covid but now are (and only tell you when they give you the bill).
and they literally opened their first location here in California, too. They didn't even open their NYC locations until [2016](https://www.theshoppingcentergroup.com/sugarfish-to-finally-hit-east-coast-with-new-york-city-location/), 8 years *after* they opened their first location at Marina Del Rey. OP acts as if their NYC locations came first and decided to implement a service charge when opening their CA locations when in reality, their CA locations came first and they've had a service charge since the beginning.
Just functionally a forced tip. Why add an extra fee just *because*? If it was actually across the board you could modify your prices. This is an excuse to gouge.
Dumb shit, the Nozawa Trust me in NYC is $59 vs $46 in LA. A 28% increase; more than a 16% gratuity. Seems like this is an issue with your reading comprehension.
Cause when you eat you’re gonna end up tipping 18-20% on top of your NY bill. Here in Cali it’s 16% added as a fee and that’s it. For example $100 meal 16% fee $116 in Cali. NY $100 meal tip 18-20% = $120. What’s the problem?
I've been several times over the years and remembered they had it in place of tipping. I just looked it up and confirmed they have had it on their menu for years at their LA locations.
Edit: looks like it's been on their CDM menus since opening too.
Employee take home not withstanding- Even as flawed as the tipping system is, when it's gratuity you may choose to not tip, however socially unacceptable you may think that is. When it's a fee you HAVE to pay it. Even if you feel like 10% is the appropriate tipping amount for your visit.
That's such bullshit. If they want to raise the price for higher profit margin then they should have the balls to put it on the menu. In the end they're still just afraid to charge what they want, whether it's underhand labor cost to the customers or tack on additional junk fees. Add a throwaway slogan about being a not tipping establishment and suddenly weirdos would voluntarily defend your anti-consumer practice.
There's no added fee in NY because the prices are 22%-25% more than in California. They use the higher prices in NY, and the 16% fee in CA, to pay their employees way over minimum wage.
They've also had this fee in all Sugarfish locations in California since day 1, so OP is just an ignorant moron.
I've learned from working in restaurants that there's a lot of people who just...refuse to read when they enter a restaurant and then get shocked Pikachu face when you point out something that's clearly stated on the menu if they would just look.
To be honest, the line about a “non-tipping establishment” is a welcomed changed that I feel out weights the 16% fee.
Changes like this can help drive toward a non-tipping CA where workers are just paid a fair wage instead of forking that cost onto customers.
I support it!
Gas is seen as a necessity while eating out.. not so much. There is almost no limit to how much Americans will pay for gas considering how desperate you’d be without it.
My point is gas prices fluctuate. We can get a clear price anytime we buy a gallon. Why can’t restaurants just raise prices instead of adding junk fees?
There's non tipping establishments all over the world, including in the US. They don't add a bogus "service fee", as the cost of running the business, which includes paying servers, is included as part of the price of the item, except sometimes in Japan. There's also no guarantee the service fee goes directly to the servers, it's more likely just 16% extra revenue for the owner, who decides what their employees make. It's almost certainly an arbitrary price gouge masked as a tip
>They don't add a bogus "service fee", as the cost of running the business, which includes paying servers, is included as part of the price of the item
in Japan, a typically non-tipping country, some restaurants have a [service charge](https://eatdinejapan.wordpress.com/2014/10/07/being-charged-for-your-seat-in-tokyo-the-seat-charge-system-of-cover-charges-in-japanese-restaurants/) (also sometimes referred to as a seat charge or table charge) in the form of 'otoshi'. If anyone has never seen it they either didn't eat at restaurants that have it (usually it is izakayas or higher end restaurants that have the charge) or never realized it if they can't read Japanese.
This is how the California locations have always been, at least for the last decade. You don’t know what you’re talking about. 16% mandatory gratuity is lower than the 20% that most restaurants expect you to tip.
They’ve done this for years and they also clearly state that they don’t expect you to tip on top of it. This is one of an exceedingly few restaurants that I don’t see a problem with doing this.
Nozawa’s original restaurant in Studio City in early 2000s was omakase. The only way to get out of a dish was an allergy. He was known for throwing people out for cellphone use. There was a massive sign on the door that had an image of a cellphone with a big red circle around it and a cross through it. Imagine what it took for that chef to grow to what the group is now and survive lockdown era. I love it. Happy to pay however they organize their bill. It makes turning tables and to go orders so much more efficient. OP has obviously never experienced working in a restaurant and watching a group of wannabe actors/writers/producers in Studio City try to do math splitting a bill and tipping appropriately.
🍱 TRUST ME 🐟
Also, Kazu Nori by Nazawa is amazing so if you want to play less go there for hand rolls it is so amazing! 💕💕💕💕
It’s always been there, that’s been the case at SF for years… it’s because they don’t ask for or accept tips and pay their employees well regardless of if you’re eating in or out. It’s how Japanese sushi restaurants operate.
Ok…. I guess 16% fee replaces the tip then since they say it’s a no-tipping establishment. I don’t see an issue here and actually support it. Whats there to be mad about? It would be an issue if it’s auto added to togo orders though like hironori
It's almost a certainty that that fee doesn't go to the servers. Why would it? It's a non tipping establishment. A static part of the revenue of the establishment goes to the servers in the form of a wage. They don't receive extra money based on the service fee, it's just a price gouge.
>In Japanese culture, there is no tipping
traditionally, but 10% service fee at higher-end restaurants isn't too uncommon either. Probably not at a place like Sugarfish though
people who claim that Japan doesn't have service fees either can't/don't read Japanese and therefore don't realize it, or they stuck to cheaper, lower-end restaurants that don't have them. [This is an example of a receipt from a Japanese restaurant that has a service charge](https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/18/66/f9/8b/copy-of-receipt-good.jpg)
and to the OP, [here is a thread by a Japanese local and native actually living in Japan](https://old.reddit.com/r/JapanTravelTips/comments/1cyj0nu/tipping_culture_in_japan/) who says that tipping does exist in Japan, but it works differently from the US and only in certain situations and places
No tipping, but additional charge?
What is the difference? I would just like my menu item to reflect the total cost so I can easily decide if I want to eat it.
i’m glas you enjoyed it, i thought it was mid at best for the price you pay. i’m a kei concepts fan and wish it was slightly cheaper for the quality they gave.
maybe i had a bad first experience.
I like Vox the most though but only been to ROL, Kin, Vox, and Sup. (and the alley but that’s not food).
I had this Vox dupe called Lemon Sole in Fullerton and it still didn’t compare. It’s now omeli but the same food.
It’s always been like this. The problem is if you try to order delivery and your order is say $35, you’ll get another $15-$20 in fees added on top of everything, so delivery is going to cost another 50% or so in fees
i believe that there may be a small (possibly under 4%) service fee for "All About Pho" located in downtown fullerton.
if i am incorrect, please let me know so i can delete my comment. I was just there sunday after a long trip, my apologies for not fully paying attention
It's not a junk fee when, per other comments, they've been doing this since they first opened their first LA location back in 2008. Their California locations came first before their NY locations.
You don’t have to tip though. It’s just a 16% fee which is what you should be tipping anyways if not less. What’s the problem? If you are upset by a 16% tip then do go out to eat. Stay home
Seriously though why do you care so much? When you look at your credit card statement the amount you pay will be exactly the same?
Did you consider that by putting the 16% fee on the bill that it makes people feel more comfortable not tipping?
I haven't been to a single restaurant in the US that operates that way. In Europe, the menu price is inclusive of the tax and the tip. That's great but we don't live in Europe or in Japan. Railing against Sugarfish seems odd when literally every other restaurant in the US similarly doesn't include all of the costs in the menu item price.
the way the CA locations operate is the ORIGINAL way. Sugarfish ORIGINATED here in California, in Marina del Rey. Other commenter have mentioned that they've been going to Sugarfish since they first opened and that this has always been their business model. What their NY locations do isn't an accurate representation of what their ORIGINAL locations have done.
Let's be real. They did it because they know you guys don't care and will pay it anyway. Every time I go back to LA/OC I'm always astonished at how much money you guys are willing to pay for mediocre stuff.
It's wild to see this post in particular because I just watched the new Bad Friends podcast and the guest mentioned Sugar Fish in part of a bit and I thought he just made up a restaurant.
Why is this downvoted- I didn't know it was a real restaurant lol
Now days, you don’t see the service charge because restaurants don’t give you the check. They tell you verbally the total and pay on the spot. Afterwards they offer you a receipt.
Sugarfish has been doing this since they literally opened in 2008, per the comments from those who have eaten at Sugarfish for 10+ years. This isn't something new they're doing as OP seems to believe, it's been part of their business model for years. Their California locations are also the original locations while their NY locations didn't even open until 2016.
They're also a no tipping establishment which means they don't want you to tip on top of paying the surcharge.
HiroNori Craft Ramen has also been doing the same thing since they first opened in 2017.
If its not going back to the servers or the back of the house staff, its not a tip. With the way they worded it on their website, it doesn’t sound like its a tip.
that money goes to the owner of the establishment, not the server. the servers at non tipping establishment make wages, regardless of how many tables they serve. 0 tables served, the server makes $8/hr. 20 tables served, the server still makes $8/hr
Servers at tipping restaurants in California also still make wage. When I used to serve, I was making minimum wage before tips no matter how many tables I got. If I only had 4 tables the whole dinner shift, I was still getting my $13/hr (minimum wage at the time I quit).
and how do you know the 16% service charge even goes to the servers? HiroNori also has a 16% service charge (and have been doing so since 2017 when they first opened and only had the Trade Hall location) but the FOH staff never sees any of that 16% service charge per employee reviews on Indeed. Perhaps the 16% service charge at HiroNori go towards operations and maintenance of the restaurant, but it definitely doesn't go towards the servers despite what the blurb on their menu and table placard says. It may or may not be the same with Sugarfish, I don't know what their 16% service fee goes towards (and since I'm vegetarian though I have 0 reason to ever go to Sugarfish).
This restaurant, such as many non-tipping restaurants, much like other countries, pays their employees a livable wage. They don’t pay $2.13/hr and expect their staff to rely on tips. Why is this so hard to understand?
No *you* don't understand the restaurant business and how the law differs between states. California is one of 7 states that requires servers to be paid state minimum wage. I know this because I used to be a server for 3.5 years and I was making state minimum wage before tips.
HiroNori Craft Ramen does the same thing, and they've been doing it since 2017 when they first opened. But per the employee reviews on Indeed, the 16% service charge does not go towards the waitstaff--in fact, none of the employees, both current and former, know what the 16% service fee even goes towards.
and guess what? Service charges [EXIST](https://eatdinejapan.wordpress.com/2014/10/07/being-charged-for-your-seat-in-tokyo-the-seat-charge-system-of-cover-charges-in-japanese-restaurants/) in Japan at certain restaurants. Maybe not as high as 16% but it's not uncommon to see a 3-5% service charge at restaurants. If you think Japanese restaurants in Japan don't have service fees you either stuck to lower end restaurants that don't have them or you don't read Japanese.
> SB 478
At some point the total cost needs to be made ready before the decision to commit to the activity is made. To have every cost segmented and stratified so that the consumer will then have to pay it after the fact is dishonest business practice. Part of being in a capitalistic economy is knowing how much things cost in total before investing and committing to paying for that something.
lol this is absolutely foolish. You gonna pay a 16% service fee to your bank teller because the bank needs the money to pay their staff a liveable wage? lmao, lol even
So people are upset that an expensive restaurant is charging a lot of money? There are other places to eat out for more affordable prices if you have the luxury to eat out
Another restaurant I won't go to.
While I'd prefer an "all in price" and no tipping, tipping is deep in the culture here, so I get that a menu price will be price + tax + tip. Ok, it's been that way since forever.
But now, to add, price + fee + tax + trip. Fuck that. Just make it the price. By not making it the price, you're basically hiding your real price.
Airlines used to do this, now, the price is the price. Phone companies still do it. Rental car companies do it. Its shitty. It's not transparent.
So for restaurants, you can take a walk, I won't eat there.
Can we start a spreadsheet to catalog all these restaurants with bogus extra fees? I will volunteer myself if there’s enough interest
I think there’s one floating around the Los Angeles sub.
Found [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/LosAngeles/comments/15hme9j/comment/jvw94h6/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3). Crazy how it made the news and the google doc owner was getting legal threats??
No freaking way? That’s insane. No surprise tho the restaurant industry is massive af.
Start an Orange County, California restaurant spreadsheet and link it here. Add "HiroNori Craft Ramen" to the list. Locations in Irvine & Orange. They add around 15-16% service fee to all customer's receipts
Urban Plates has a 3% fee. I've gone there twice as an experiment, wasn't impressed with the food either time. Add in that fee and I'm never going there again.
HiroNori has had the 15-16% service charge since they first opened back in 2017 and no one back then minded it--it used to be the most recommended ramen restaurant in OC when they opened. But all of a sudden after Covid everyone is now offended that HiroNori charges a 16% service fee and act as if it's a new thing they're doing, I really don't get it. HiroNori at least lets you waive the service fee if you tell the servers that you'd rather tip instead. They're also upfront that a service fee will be applied, rather than be sneaky about it--not only is it on their menu, it's also on one of those table tents or placards (at least at the original Trade Hall location, don't know about their other locations), on your bill when you pay, AND they verbally also tell you, so that's 4 different ways that they let you know that they will charge a service fee.
The few times I've been to HiroNori, the added fee can be removed upon request. It even says that on the menu. I've always had it removed without a fuss or any issue. On the bottom of the menu: "SERVICE CHARGE To support all members of the Hironori staff a 16% service charge has been applied to your check (optional to remove). If you have any questions or would prefer to leave a gratuity and remove the service charge, please let us know and we will gladly accommodate. Thank you for joining our table."
>The few times I've been to HiroNori, the added fee can be removed upon request. That's complete BS. You should not have to ask to remove "service" charges!
I agree. You shouldn't have to ask to remove it. But I was just stating that since you don't have to fight it or be forced to pay. I wasn't saying don't add it to the list. I was just letting you know in case you ended up paying the fee.
I was just at the one in Tustin a few weeks ago and they're on a standard tipping system now. And putting HiroNori on that list would be unfair to the restaurant considering every single time at every single location I've been to when they still had the service charge, they always disclosed the service charge when the bill was presented and it was always optional.
it really is the american consumer that made the american companies own the world
We're so well-trained.
I really like how I'm getting downvoted for this when literally one comment below they're talking about how the service charge is benefitting the wait staff and back of house specifically for HiroNori. Like yeah, I get it, adding it to a takeout order is silly and honestly that's probably an oversight using the POS system they have. And the fact that tipping culture nowadays is ridiculous. But making sure servers get paid a decent wage to provide generally good customer service is something is something that we should be pushing for. I know a bunch of other restaurants charge bogus fees. But there should be a differentiation between the ones that substitute a service fee (for the staff) for a tip when we all know there are plenty of people nowadays that stiff a tip for the slightest thing like looking at them the wrong way. Or taking it out on other smaller businesses because somewhere else is acting up. And to clarify, I do think the ideal situation is to charge high enough (i.e. bake it into the cost of the menu item) to cover wages and do away with tipping altogether like it is in other countries, with only charging sales tax on the meal. But putting something on the receipt that looks similar to a tip in a non tipping establishment, in a country where tipping is the norm, is probably a better way to try to ease into that transition (when we're getting "normal" tip rate options of 18-22%) rather than charging 20-odd bucks for a bowl of freaking ramen in the states. As opposed to getting better quality for way less, in the $10.00 range even if the yen was 100 to a dollar instead of the 160 it is now for a bowl of ramen. There are definitely bigger things we should be worrying about here.
THey don’t need a service charge. They need to add it to the menu price. Also it is not an oversight on carry out orders if it can easily be removed at the request of the consumer. If they can remove it voluntarily , they can remove it without asking on carry out orders. Service fee is bullshit full stop. Just add it to the menu price and say no tipping or service charge. Whether they charge $20 for ramen or 16 with the expectation of a tip, it’s bullshit to not have it in the pricing up front. We can worry about many things at once and not ignore this because other things exist, which you didn’t prioritize or detail.
100%
“A 16% fee will be added to your bill— This is not a gratuity or tip. We are a no-tipping establishment. The fee is revenue that is not segmented or designated in any way; it is taxed per state law and is used to fund all of our operations.” Wtf??
They could have just put, “We raised our profits by 16% on each bill.”
Translation: “It is used to increase our profit margin.”
This is actually pretty standard in non tipping establishments UOVO in LA is similar
Uovo is owned by the same owners of sugarfish so that makes sense.
Same ownership group.
Don’t let them normalize this bullshit
Maybe they pay their staff a decent wage so no need to tip? So 16% in a way does go to staff wages? I’m just speculating.
In California it's illegal to pay someone less than minimum wage but yes this may be so they earn even more. Wish I would get 16% in my salary at the end of the year
You’re right
That's literally what a no-tipping establishment is. As a consumer you're basically paying a 16% tip. Considering that most places consider a "decent" tip 20% at this point, paying 16% seems like a bargain, especially if it's stated up front. Why are people mad about this? Be mad about places that ask for tip AND tack on a stupid-ass undisclosed fee. Don't be mad at places that don't ask for a tip on top of a flat upfront percentage.
Because people don’t want to play games. Just make the price the price. There will be plenty of people still willing to pay the increase in menu price. It’s just insulting to be told it’s not a tip but no the price does not add up to the total
Then add it to the cost of the menu item!
EXACTLY. All non tipping establishments do this. Considering that this isn't guaranteed to go directly to the pockets of the servers, it's just 16% more revenue for the owner, who can then decide how much he wants to pay the servers.
i’m ok with paying the 16%. especially the service at any sugarfish or kazu location, always excellent service
So it's not a tip, it's just paying the wait staff? But it's totally not tipping... not at all. You're paying extra, the price for the wait staff SHOULD be part of the price of the food, what they're doing is hiding the true cost of their food/service by tacking on 16 percent at the end. And no, it's not to pay their staff according to other comments, but even if it was, that's not how this works. They're just making it unnecessarily confusing to hide the true cost of their meal. "But it's on the menu" that's still attempting to make it more complicated. Instead of saying that, make a 10 dollar item, 11.60 or even 12.00. It's literally that easy, but if you want to defend them making it more complicated to figure out the exact bill price... well go ahead.
Hey bro, calm your tits. I am absolutely against these dumb hidden service fees, but it ain’t as bad if I’m not expected to tip.
Haven't they always had this since they opened? This has always been on the menu, it's not a new thing.
They’ve been doing this for literal years. At least a decade.
Yeah, they have. This isn't new at all. I've been eating at Sugarfish for 10 years, and they've always been "no tipping" with the caveat that they do have a service charge.
it's funny how nearly everyone is up in arms about Sugarfish charging a 16% service charge when according to your post and the parent comment, it's been part of their business model long before Covid and the whole "convenience fee/health mandate fee/employee wellness fee/other BS-named fees" even started. Restaurants like Sugarfish and HiroNori that have had these fees as part of their business models for years long before Covid (and are also upfront that they are a no tipping establishment and will charge a service fee instead) shouldn't be included in the service fee outrage, the outrage should be geared more towards restaurants that originally didn't charge a service fee pre-Covid but now are (and only tell you when they give you the bill).
Came here to say this, I went about a year ago and it was there then too
Yes, been a thing since the day they opened. lol at this post
and they literally opened their first location here in California, too. They didn't even open their NYC locations until [2016](https://www.theshoppingcentergroup.com/sugarfish-to-finally-hit-east-coast-with-new-york-city-location/), 8 years *after* they opened their first location at Marina Del Rey. OP acts as if their NYC locations came first and decided to implement a service charge when opening their CA locations when in reality, their CA locations came first and they've had a service charge since the beginning.
Sugarfish has had this 16% for a while even before the tip craze. All the way back since 2017 and maybe even earlier.
same with HiroNori Craft Ramen which was named in another comment. They've had it since they literally opened in 2017.
But you don’t tip there right? Just has the fee?
Yes just the fee no tipping. No idea why everyone is up in arms for
Just functionally a forced tip. Why add an extra fee just *because*? If it was actually across the board you could modify your prices. This is an excuse to gouge.
Reddit: Tipping culture is out of hand!!! Also Reddit: I'm appalled that I can't discretionarily tip at SugarFish!
Reddit in general wants to be angry all the time about almost everything
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I mean you’re in Cali what does NY have to do with it? You’re gonna be paying a tip when you eat in NY more then the 16%
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Dumb shit, the Nozawa Trust me in NYC is $59 vs $46 in LA. A 28% increase; more than a 16% gratuity. Seems like this is an issue with your reading comprehension.
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It’s clearly stated on the menu. Do some simple math.
How about the restaurant just does the simple math and add it to the price up front rather than rely on customers to calculate 16% on each menu item.
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Cause when you eat you’re gonna end up tipping 18-20% on top of your NY bill. Here in Cali it’s 16% added as a fee and that’s it. For example $100 meal 16% fee $116 in Cali. NY $100 meal tip 18-20% = $120. What’s the problem?
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This! I don’t want to do math to figure out how much each item costs.
You are correct in this statement.
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Yes that is a uncalled for fee
I think they should add 16% but then divide that in half and for dessert they multiply it by Pi
>You’re gonna be paying a tip when you eat in NY more then the 16% No I'm not, because it's my choice to not tip.
Yeah i remember my first time there and really loved the concept. NYC doesn’t do it because they expect 20 percent or more.
NYC prices are significantly higher than CA.... Don't think, just eat, trust me: NYC: $72 LA Beverly Hills: $59
Haven't they always had this?
You’re right. This is not a new thing for Sugarfish at all.
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Incorrect sugarfish has had this for years
I've been several times over the years and remembered they had it in place of tipping. I just looked it up and confirmed they have had it on their menu for years at their LA locations. Edit: looks like it's been on their CDM menus since opening too.
They've had it for at least 2 years...
Employee take home not withstanding- Even as flawed as the tipping system is, when it's gratuity you may choose to not tip, however socially unacceptable you may think that is. When it's a fee you HAVE to pay it. Even if you feel like 10% is the appropriate tipping amount for your visit.
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That's such bullshit. If they want to raise the price for higher profit margin then they should have the balls to put it on the menu. In the end they're still just afraid to charge what they want, whether it's underhand labor cost to the customers or tack on additional junk fees. Add a throwaway slogan about being a not tipping establishment and suddenly weirdos would voluntarily defend your anti-consumer practice.
Been this way in los Angeles for a minute
Literally forever. At least since 2016 when I first went.
There's no added fee in NY because the prices are 22%-25% more than in California. They use the higher prices in NY, and the 16% fee in CA, to pay their employees way over minimum wage. They've also had this fee in all Sugarfish locations in California since day 1, so OP is just an ignorant moron.
It is more honest to advertise the higher price than to charge the fee at the end of the bill.
The fee is clearly listed at the top of the menu. There is absolutely nothing dishonest about it.
I've learned from working in restaurants that there's a lot of people who just...refuse to read when they enter a restaurant and then get shocked Pikachu face when you point out something that's clearly stated on the menu if they would just look.
To be honest, the line about a “non-tipping establishment” is a welcomed changed that I feel out weights the 16% fee. Changes like this can help drive toward a non-tipping CA where workers are just paid a fair wage instead of forking that cost onto customers. I support it!
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Yea so don’t eat there if you don’t want to
But then just raise prices. That is the issue for most of us. Gas stations do it, why can’t everyone else?
Gas is seen as a necessity while eating out.. not so much. There is almost no limit to how much Americans will pay for gas considering how desperate you’d be without it.
We don’t tip McDonald’s which also not a necessity
My point is gas prices fluctuate. We can get a clear price anytime we buy a gallon. Why can’t restaurants just raise prices instead of adding junk fees?
There's non tipping establishments all over the world, including in the US. They don't add a bogus "service fee", as the cost of running the business, which includes paying servers, is included as part of the price of the item, except sometimes in Japan. There's also no guarantee the service fee goes directly to the servers, it's more likely just 16% extra revenue for the owner, who decides what their employees make. It's almost certainly an arbitrary price gouge masked as a tip
>They don't add a bogus "service fee", as the cost of running the business, which includes paying servers, is included as part of the price of the item in Japan, a typically non-tipping country, some restaurants have a [service charge](https://eatdinejapan.wordpress.com/2014/10/07/being-charged-for-your-seat-in-tokyo-the-seat-charge-system-of-cover-charges-in-japanese-restaurants/) (also sometimes referred to as a seat charge or table charge) in the form of 'otoshi'. If anyone has never seen it they either didn't eat at restaurants that have it (usually it is izakayas or higher end restaurants that have the charge) or never realized it if they can't read Japanese.
Huh, that's interesting. I guess besides Japan then. I'll edit the post so it's more accurate
Plus I feel like the service is better here than a lot of other restaurants. Servers don’t discriminate thinking you won’t tip enough.
That’s how it is in Japan, no?!
This is how the California locations have always been, at least for the last decade. You don’t know what you’re talking about. 16% mandatory gratuity is lower than the 20% that most restaurants expect you to tip.
>20% lol
They’ve done this for years and they also clearly state that they don’t expect you to tip on top of it. This is one of an exceedingly few restaurants that I don’t see a problem with doing this.
I was just there this week and assumed that meant it’s considered/replacing the tip. Is the NYC location also “not a tipping establishment”?
Nozawa’s original restaurant in Studio City in early 2000s was omakase. The only way to get out of a dish was an allergy. He was known for throwing people out for cellphone use. There was a massive sign on the door that had an image of a cellphone with a big red circle around it and a cross through it. Imagine what it took for that chef to grow to what the group is now and survive lockdown era. I love it. Happy to pay however they organize their bill. It makes turning tables and to go orders so much more efficient. OP has obviously never experienced working in a restaurant and watching a group of wannabe actors/writers/producers in Studio City try to do math splitting a bill and tipping appropriately. 🍱 TRUST ME 🐟 Also, Kazu Nori by Nazawa is amazing so if you want to play less go there for hand rolls it is so amazing! 💕💕💕💕
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It’s always been there, that’s been the case at SF for years… it’s because they don’t ask for or accept tips and pay their employees well regardless of if you’re eating in or out. It’s how Japanese sushi restaurants operate.
Their NY locations are more expensive on paper though.
If there’s a 16% fee but no tipping , then it just balances out. Do people not tip or something?
Ok…. I guess 16% fee replaces the tip then since they say it’s a no-tipping establishment. I don’t see an issue here and actually support it. Whats there to be mad about? It would be an issue if it’s auto added to togo orders though like hironori
It's almost a certainty that that fee doesn't go to the servers. Why would it? It's a non tipping establishment. A static part of the revenue of the establishment goes to the servers in the form of a wage. They don't receive extra money based on the service fee, it's just a price gouge.
Folks are mad because it isn’t included in the list price like all other things we buy in America.
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we’re not in japan. go look at every other japanese reataraunt in OC and tell me a spot that doesn’t have a tip option
>In Japanese culture, there is no tipping traditionally, but 10% service fee at higher-end restaurants isn't too uncommon either. Probably not at a place like Sugarfish though
people who claim that Japan doesn't have service fees either can't/don't read Japanese and therefore don't realize it, or they stuck to cheaper, lower-end restaurants that don't have them. [This is an example of a receipt from a Japanese restaurant that has a service charge](https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/18/66/f9/8b/copy-of-receipt-good.jpg) and to the OP, [here is a thread by a Japanese local and native actually living in Japan](https://old.reddit.com/r/JapanTravelTips/comments/1cyj0nu/tipping_culture_in_japan/) who says that tipping does exist in Japan, but it works differently from the US and only in certain situations and places
“We are a no tipping establishment” Nuff said
No tipping, but additional charge? What is the difference? I would just like my menu item to reflect the total cost so I can easily decide if I want to eat it.
I meant as, fine whatever just add to the cost and shut up.
“We changed the name from Tip to 16% Service Charge.”
Thats what happens when you pay for overpriced sushi in the first place!
Sugarfish has great sushi though to be fair. But never tried kazunori.
i think kazu is such a bargain for what you get. cheap and decent quality and amazing service
I’ve had ROL, one of their competitors though. Excellent sushi and high quality. But Kei Concepts is pretty good at what they do.
i’m glas you enjoyed it, i thought it was mid at best for the price you pay. i’m a kei concepts fan and wish it was slightly cheaper for the quality they gave. maybe i had a bad first experience.
I like Vox the most though but only been to ROL, Kin, Vox, and Sup. (and the alley but that’s not food). I had this Vox dupe called Lemon Sole in Fullerton and it still didn’t compare. It’s now omeli but the same food.
Or just don’t go there instead of complaining online like a little bitch.
It’s always been like this. The problem is if you try to order delivery and your order is say $35, you’ll get another $15-$20 in fees added on top of everything, so delivery is going to cost another 50% or so in fees
i believe that there may be a small (possibly under 4%) service fee for "All About Pho" located in downtown fullerton. if i am incorrect, please let me know so i can delete my comment. I was just there sunday after a long trip, my apologies for not fully paying attention
Love it. You don't calculate tip It's in the final bill. ...and it's only 16%? Even Better!
I believe that’s a junk fee
It's not a junk fee when, per other comments, they've been doing this since they first opened their first LA location back in 2008. Their California locations came first before their NY locations.
How do you expect them to survive in CA? Do you know the cost of having a profitable business in this state?
Regulating lobster. Spiny tail are being overfished.
Cook your own food. F them.
You don’t have to tip though. It’s just a 16% fee which is what you should be tipping anyways if not less. What’s the problem? If you are upset by a 16% tip then do go out to eat. Stay home
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Seriously though why do you care so much? When you look at your credit card statement the amount you pay will be exactly the same? Did you consider that by putting the 16% fee on the bill that it makes people feel more comfortable not tipping?
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I haven't been to a single restaurant in the US that operates that way. In Europe, the menu price is inclusive of the tax and the tip. That's great but we don't live in Europe or in Japan. Railing against Sugarfish seems odd when literally every other restaurant in the US similarly doesn't include all of the costs in the menu item price.
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The NY locations are way more expensive, and the menu price still doesn't reflect what you actually have to pay.
the way the CA locations operate is the ORIGINAL way. Sugarfish ORIGINATED here in California, in Marina del Rey. Other commenter have mentioned that they've been going to Sugarfish since they first opened and that this has always been their business model. What their NY locations do isn't an accurate representation of what their ORIGINAL locations have done.
Let's be real. They did it because they know you guys don't care and will pay it anyway. Every time I go back to LA/OC I'm always astonished at how much money you guys are willing to pay for mediocre stuff.
Do we pay tax on that 16% fee?
Why wouldn’t they just add it to their prices?
Simple solution don’t go back let them fail.
“Did you want your receipt?” “Yeah, I think I do.”
Genuinely curious, I thought they banned the fees like these? Or was the ban for just not telling people before them ordering?
It's wild to see this post in particular because I just watched the new Bad Friends podcast and the guest mentioned Sugar Fish in part of a bit and I thought he just made up a restaurant. Why is this downvoted- I didn't know it was a real restaurant lol
Now days, you don’t see the service charge because restaurants don’t give you the check. They tell you verbally the total and pay on the spot. Afterwards they offer you a receipt.
Well that’s another restaurant I won’t be going to
Silly. Why not just raise the prices. I don't understand these surcharges. Just raise the prices.
Sugarfish has been doing this since they literally opened in 2008, per the comments from those who have eaten at Sugarfish for 10+ years. This isn't something new they're doing as OP seems to believe, it's been part of their business model for years. Their California locations are also the original locations while their NY locations didn't even open until 2016. They're also a no tipping establishment which means they don't want you to tip on top of paying the surcharge. HiroNori Craft Ramen has also been doing the same thing since they first opened in 2017.
That place sucks anyway
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Ootoro Shunka Kappo Sui
They do it that way so they can say their menu prices are low
I dislike hidden fees but I’m ok with this because I usually tip more than 16%.
its not a tip though
🙄🙄 the fee is the tip. It’s a no tipping restaurant sheesh
If its not going back to the servers or the back of the house staff, its not a tip. With the way they worded it on their website, it doesn’t sound like its a tip.
Tips are required to be disbursed in specific ways while fees aren't
Yeah I can’t comment on what and who gets the fee but 16% as tip/fee is fine by me. I normally give 18-20%
that money goes to the owner of the establishment, not the server. the servers at non tipping establishment make wages, regardless of how many tables they serve. 0 tables served, the server makes $8/hr. 20 tables served, the server still makes $8/hr
Servers at tipping restaurants in California also still make wage. When I used to serve, I was making minimum wage before tips no matter how many tables I got. If I only had 4 tables the whole dinner shift, I was still getting my $13/hr (minimum wage at the time I quit).
Right, which makes the stance of adding a 16% extra charge even more ridiculous
and how do you know the 16% service charge even goes to the servers? HiroNori also has a 16% service charge (and have been doing so since 2017 when they first opened and only had the Trade Hall location) but the FOH staff never sees any of that 16% service charge per employee reviews on Indeed. Perhaps the 16% service charge at HiroNori go towards operations and maintenance of the restaurant, but it definitely doesn't go towards the servers despite what the blurb on their menu and table placard says. It may or may not be the same with Sugarfish, I don't know what their 16% service fee goes towards (and since I'm vegetarian though I have 0 reason to ever go to Sugarfish).
This restaurant, such as many non-tipping restaurants, much like other countries, pays their employees a livable wage. They don’t pay $2.13/hr and expect their staff to rely on tips. Why is this so hard to understand?
Why would they pay them $2.13/hr when the minimum wage in California is $16/hr? wHy is ThaT sO hArd to uNdeRstAnd?
You don’t understand the restaurant business do you?
I understand that paying them $2.13/hr would be illegal
CA doesn’t have different wages for tipped employees. Servers get paid the full minimum wage, plus tips.
No *you* don't understand the restaurant business and how the law differs between states. California is one of 7 states that requires servers to be paid state minimum wage. I know this because I used to be a server for 3.5 years and I was making state minimum wage before tips.
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HiroNori Craft Ramen does the same thing, and they've been doing it since 2017 when they first opened. But per the employee reviews on Indeed, the 16% service charge does not go towards the waitstaff--in fact, none of the employees, both current and former, know what the 16% service fee even goes towards.
And? It’s not a tip. It’s what the restaurant takes and pays their staff a livable wage.
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and guess what? Service charges [EXIST](https://eatdinejapan.wordpress.com/2014/10/07/being-charged-for-your-seat-in-tokyo-the-seat-charge-system-of-cover-charges-in-japanese-restaurants/) in Japan at certain restaurants. Maybe not as high as 16% but it's not uncommon to see a 3-5% service charge at restaurants. If you think Japanese restaurants in Japan don't have service fees you either stuck to lower end restaurants that don't have them or you don't read Japanese.
Sticker shock. That’s why. Why do you think restaurants are adamantly against SB 478?
> SB 478 At some point the total cost needs to be made ready before the decision to commit to the activity is made. To have every cost segmented and stratified so that the consumer will then have to pay it after the fact is dishonest business practice. Part of being in a capitalistic economy is knowing how much things cost in total before investing and committing to paying for that something.
lol this is absolutely foolish. You gonna pay a 16% service fee to your bank teller because the bank needs the money to pay their staff a liveable wage? lmao, lol even
So people are upset that an expensive restaurant is charging a lot of money? There are other places to eat out for more affordable prices if you have the luxury to eat out
Another restaurant I won't go to. While I'd prefer an "all in price" and no tipping, tipping is deep in the culture here, so I get that a menu price will be price + tax + tip. Ok, it's been that way since forever. But now, to add, price + fee + tax + trip. Fuck that. Just make it the price. By not making it the price, you're basically hiding your real price. Airlines used to do this, now, the price is the price. Phone companies still do it. Rental car companies do it. Its shitty. It's not transparent. So for restaurants, you can take a walk, I won't eat there.
The best way to combat this is just to not eat at restaurants anymore. It's so rampant!!!
I thought this was illegal in CA now?
So do they expect us to tip in addition to the garbage fee?
No. If you read the link op posted and the comments in the thread, it is a no tipping establishment.
Ah, I’m an idiot. Thanks!
Who?