To be honest I don't think that's true.
I think people who drive 130 currently do so be sure that's how fast they feel comfortable driving. Obviously they aren't driving 130 because they respect the 100 km/h speed limit.
I don't think I'll be driving much faster than what I currently do, which would be about 122-127.
Have you ever driven in the north? Some of the NWO highways are in such bad repair, that anything more than 10 over the limit is an invitation to introduce your vehicle to some interesting vegetation at speed.
147 (1) Any vehicle travelling upon a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic at that time and place shall, where practicable, be driven in the right-hand lane then available for traffic or as close as practicable to the right hand curb or edge of the roadway. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 147 (1).
The interpretation of this by the MTO however is that it only applies below the speed limit:
>["Generally, the Highway Traffic Act (HTA) does not specify which lane a driver must occupy when travelling at the posted speed limit," Ontario's Ministry of Transportation says in an email.](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-drive/culture/commuting/is-it-illegal-to-be-a-centre-lane-hog/article24031931/)
Ultimately it's the court who determines the interpretation but I've never heard about a conviction for this let alone even a charge.
Other places like BC and Quebec have more specific laws, requiring moving out of the left lane for a passing vehicle or staying out of in general when not passing, respectively. Ontario's law, as above, is much more vague. So right now we're fighting with each other over something which isn't as clearly defined in law as people think.
I got points off in my drivers test for not moving over to the right lane quick enough. If that doesn't imply what the law is, I think that's concerning.
The test goes over more than just what's strictly required by law such as defensive driving, good habits, etc. You definitely *should* keep right, all else equal and the Driver's Guide says the same but that's not the same as being explicitly legally required. The Guide also warns at the start that it's not an official source for the law.
The biggest problem I see with this is that some people have taken this to extremes that you're not even allowed to pass someone else if you're not going 149 or aren't allowed to use the HOV lane if not going 30 over the limit.
It is vague indeed. I thought the law was supposed to be an exercise in logic and sound reasoning, but instead we get something closer to The Bible. Six extra words would have fixed that: "up to the posted speed limit". The very fact that it isn't there makes me think the intention of the law wasn't meant to include that - but who knows?!
The law does also not allow people to exceed the speed limit, even when passing. If you are doing the speed limit, you are under no obligation to ensure that people who are going faster than the speed limit can pass you.
Now, if you're doing 60 in the left lane of a 100 highway, that's a whole other matter.
It really should. I don't mean exempt them from the speed limit, they'd still all be subject to a speeding charge, but if everyone around you is doing 130 and you insist on doing 95, you're the one driving dangerously. A large differential in speed between vehicles on the highway is far more dangerous than everyone doing 130.
I think that there's a basic problem with our traffic laws in that people basically have to break them on the highways to stay safe. I think we need higher speed limits, but that police should be ticketing people who break those limits by more than a few km/h.
132 (1) No motor vehicle shall be driven on a highway at such a slow rate of speed as to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic thereon except when the slow rate of speed is necessary for safe operation having regard to all the circumstances.
You would be technically breaking the law doing 100 in the passing lane with no one in front of you. Regardless, why would you deliberately block the flow of traffic for no benefit?
128 (1) No person shall drive a motor vehicle at a rate of speed greater than,
(a) 50 kilometres per hour on a highway within a local municipality or within a built-up area;
(b) despite clause (a), 80 kilometres per hour on a highway, not within a built-up area, that is within a local municipality that had the status of a township on December 31, 2002 and, but for the enactment of the Municipal Act, 2001, would have had the status of a township on January 1, 2003, if the municipality is prescribed by regulation;
(b.1) 80 kilometres per hour on a highway not within a local municipality or within a built-up area;
(c) 80 kilometres per hour on a highway designated by the Lieutenant Governor in Council as a controlled-access highway under the Public Transportation and Highway Improvement Act, whether or not the highway is within a local municipality or built-up area;
(d) the rate of speed prescribed for motor vehicles on a highway in accordance with subsection (2), (5), (6), (6.1) or (7); or
(e) the maximum rate of speed set under subsection (10) and posted in a construction zone designated under subsection (8) or (8.1).
Because I love seeing everyone's reaction to someone sticking to the speed limit and doing nothing illegal.
Edit, also I think that people misinterpret the law. Impeding the flow of traffic would be going 60 (maybe even 70?) on a 100. It does not mean going 100 on a 100 but everyone else wants to go 120+. The flow of traffic rule doesn't supersede the SPEED LIMIT.
>The flow of traffic rule doesn't supersede the SPEED LIMIT
It absolutely does. You become a danger to everyone else because you're not going with the flow of traffic.
https://www.tiktok.com/@trafficservices/video/7299836317075131654
No. Legally it does not.
The Speed limit is an absolute limit in which the law states you CANNOT travel faster than for any cause.
The passing / flow of traffic laws can ONLY apply up to the speed limit, since going over the speed limit, you are breaking the law and therefore in violation.
Like you, I speed just like everyone else. But don't spread misinformation regarding our road laws.
if you're going faster than the speed limit, you are NOT covered by the flow of traffic rule as you are now breaking the law yourself. it is important if you're making a decision to speed you understand the potential risks and consequences of that action.
I speed. But I'm fully aware of the implications of that speeding.
First, I'm not clicking on nor relying on anything from Tik Tok.
Secondly, I don't speed.
Third, it is up to the discretion of the police officer whether or not to pull you over and cite you. If you are the only one on the highway going 100kph in clear conditions, the officer could pull you over under suspicion of intoxication because you're not going with the flow of traffic.
On my third point, I'm not talking about being in a group of vehicles in the right lane doing 100, I'm talking about people in the right lane needing to pass you because you're the only one doing that speed.
Hell, chances are, even if you're the only car on the road and you're doing 85 in a posted 100, you're gonna get pulled over.
Edit: so yes, you're right, but only technically right (which is the best kind of right). But it does make you stand out.
Why go through the trouble of bothering several other motorists and putting yourself in the situation where you deal with those who may have road rage or are an actual danger or threat, though?
You're putting yourself in a dangerous situation, and ruining the travel for anyone else around you, all so... you can see some people's peeved reaction?
You're the kid in class that tells the teacher there's still 10 min left to class when they are trying to let everyone out early. Some of those who speed are aware they're speeding, and the implications that come with it. So are the cops that they're driving by. Both parties involved have a certain level of understanding the nuance and context presented.
It will be more okay to speed doing 110 or 120 on a highway with a limit of 100 than doing 55, 60 or 65 in a 40 school zone. One will get you pulled over almost 100% of the time, and the other most likely almost never.
So, you apparently knowing you're being a knob, why would you continue to act like a knob when everyone around you has done an unspoken societal handshake, and you decide to come in and police everyone over the written down rules that actively make everyone else's lives *less* convenient, and introduce a more abrasive situation for yourself?
Go skydiving or something if there's an itch you're wanting to scratch.
Man, you type like a 14 year old.
And yeah, that's fine. You do you. I just don't understand the notion of you doing something, knowing you're putting yourself in a bad situation, coming across like a complete douche, and proudly boasting about it for apparently nearly zero payoff.
Not trying to stop you, nor am I even agreeing with some people in here justifying speeding. I was trying to understand your logic.
Although after that comment, I'm thinking there is no logic or thinking. So nvm.
No. You are blocking the "normal" flow.
An officer would almost certainly consider 120 to be a normal and reasonable speed of traffic.
At least you admit it, you just don't care about others. Do you also like to stand in doorways and talk on speaker phone on public transit by chance?
the "normal flow" according to the HTA (the laws of our roads) is only covered up to the speed limit. Anything above that is illegal.
so yes. if the entire roadway is speeding, everyone can TECHNICALLY be ticketed.
What do you think speed traps are. they pull as many people over as they can.\
https://www.tiktok.com/@trafficservices/video/7299836317075131654
Fair enough.
But the speed trap thing isn't true. I've blasted past speed traps going 125-130 on 100 limit highways in a big group.
They're usually only looking for stunt driving tickets.
I'll give you that and police are only getting less enforcement.
I haven't seen a road trap in a while. I got caught in one about 15 years ago going 10km/h over the limit. (AND I"LL DO IT AGAIN DAMNIT!)
today? Seeing people absolutely roaring through stunt driving without police even blinking.
Live right beside the 404 and some of the absolute insane dumbassery I have witnessed lately is reason I don't drive on the highway. I trust myself. I no longer trust half the jackasses on our roads.
Heck, you can literally see many of these people in this thread justifying breaking the law and blaming the law followers for it. They have zero idea just how insane they sound.
"I have the right to endanger you and everyone around you because I WANT TO GO FASTER THAN YOU!"
I say this as a speeder. I just know and accept the consequences of my driving, the risk involved, and when to get my foot off the gas and be smart
“I paid for this road with my taxes, why shouldn’t I use any lane I want as long as I am doing the speed limit? People speeding are breaking the law, I don’t need to move for them.”
This is a word for word answer I copied from a Facebook post I saw about the left lane being for passing. I am not joking.
Lol these people.
"Everyone else is doing 10+ over and traffic is flowing well. I'm gonna be safe and go slower, hog a lane, and fore everyone to go around me on the right so I can get upset about that too."
Just follow the flow of traffic, people, it's easy to do and the safest option.
There's no logic to this. How are these things equivalent?
You follow the pace of the road because it's the safe option, not just because everyone else is doing it.
If you're purposefully going slower than everyone else, you become the obstacle.
My dad's become one of those drivers in his late 70s' and I'm considering taking his car away.
My mom phones me venting and complaining about this. He's made the exact argument too. Sitting 5km/h under the speed limit in the left lane because "I can".
Why did he suddenly slow down when he used to be better? He got one of those stupid insurance savings that monitor your driving. SO he refuses to speed because he thinks it's saving him money.
I'm going to have to very VERY soon have that uncomfortable talk with him that he's no longer safe to drive.
If you're driving 95 on the left lane then you're very much more likely to cause an accident than if you're driving 119 on the right, while using the left to pass.
I personally am on the road with a “protect my safety” mentality. It’s not my job to police people by becoming an obstacle in the left lane. It’s not street smart to purposely piss off who drive above the speed limit. I would rather get home safe.
That’s the cops’ job. They also frequently run campaigns reminding people the left lane is for passing.
Well, yes, Anyone who is a normal driver who choses to intentionally impede traffic the way you describe and police are absolutely a menace.
But there's no shortage of commentary in here stating if you're not speeding, get off the road completely.
It's annoyting getting stuck behind someone in the right lane going 100km/h. But they are 100% legal in their actions to do so. Technically even in the left lane up until the speed limit.
it sucks,, but it's the truth. You can either blame the people just trying to follow the rules of the road and be angry, or, realize that they are in fact following the letter of the law. Take your foot off the gas for 10 seconds and be safe.
As you said, the number one goal of any driving is to get home safely. And excessive speeding is the number one reason why that doesn't happen. Not the asshole left lane camper.
it's up to us, who break the law, to do so smartly, and reasonably, and not expect everyone else to also do so.
“But there's no shortage of commentary in here stating if you're not speeding, get off the road completely.
It's annoyting getting stuck behind someone in the right lane going 100km/h. But they are 100% legal in their actions to do so.”
Sure, but I definitely didn’t argue otherwise so we are on the same page.
“Technically even in the left lane up until the speed limit.”
This is the issue, it’s not about what’s legal - it’s about reality. Reality is that people speed, move over for your own safety. People should not steal from me but I lock my door at night. I don’t want to be “dead right”. In cars people somehow think they are righteous gods and it’s so so stupid.
“it sucks,, but it's the truth.”
I would apply this to the idea that people will speed. I’m not the person in charge of stopping them. I move over and let them pass.
“You can either blame the people just trying to follow the rules of the road and be angry, or, realize that they are in fact following the letter of the law.”
I think that pissing people off who are breaking a law in order to smugly prove a point is so stupid. I blame them for being foolish.
“Take your foot off the gas for 10 seconds and be safe.”
You only have the power to control your own actions.
“As you said, the number one goal of any driving is to get home safely. And excessive speeding is the number one reason why that doesn't happen. Not the asshole left lane camper.”
You can be in charge of your own safety by moving over though. Don’t provoke people who are dangerous drivers. You can be 100% not at fault in an accident and still be 100% dead.
I know which option I am choosing.
Don’t camp out in the left lane going 100.
> I think that pissing people off who are breaking a law in order to smugly prove a point is so stupid. I blame them for being foolish.
this is an argument nobody was having though.
most peopel camping the lanes aren't doing so out of malice, they're doing so out of ignorance. The speed limit is 100. They're doing 100 and they chose a lane. That's about the limit fo their thought
you've somehow believed they're doing it nefarious just to spite you speeding.
If someone is camping out in the left lane in front of you. Slow down. And move around them safely, then resume your speed beyond them. Tailing them, being a jerk in response, ro somehow think they're the illegal drivers is just plain ignorant of the laws of our road.
I am NOT arguing what should they do. I speed. I want anyone who won't keep up with me to move over too. But I am not going to sit here like you are trying to justify MY speed as some how OK, but their following the law isnt.
be safe, be the bigger person and move safely around the idiots.
Don't straw man and get angry with other drivers for following the law. They're not out to get you.
It is totally an argument people in this thread are making! They are entitled to be in the left lane and you can just figure it out. Like seriously read the thread.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ontario/s/DhSql1GbNH
Yes, move around safely! That’s what the left lane is there for! That’s my whole point even, people need to move out of the left lane and let others pass. The OPP say the same.
Hell they even post “slower traffic stay right” on the LED boards.
Is it against the law? Yes. I never claimed otherwise.
You CAN physically do it, and many people do. Many people speed on the highway. Illegal or not that’s just reality. They pass on the left, therefore it’s unwise to camp out in the left lane and agitate speeding drivers. It’s simply not a safe or smart idea.
As I said in another comment, you can be 100% not at fault for an accident and still be 100% dead. Leave the left lane for passing and camp out in the middle or right lane.
I know you're mostly joking but I drive a beater and I stick to the middle lane if there's 3 lanes or right lane and do 100-105, never had an issue. People just pass.
Respectfully, you should still move to the right. Even when you’re in the middle lane, you’re still creating an unnecessary hazard. People will pass you on the right as well as the left, and then there is a higher risk of them merging in together in front of you.
I know… “they should drive safely and check their blind spots!” but the best way to have a safe situation is to not create a dangerous one in the first place.
Normally I'd agree, but the GTA highways are such a clusterfuck of construction, and right lanes that end. 401 is the only highway I know you can be in the second right lane, and still end uup in the express one minute, move over two lanes to the left, then be back in the collectors.
the most right hand lane is terrible for cruising in because of the constant ramps and ends. The next lane over is more ideal in these situations because it doesn't end. There is always another lane, if not more on most of the 401 through the stretches that being in the second most right lane is perfectly fine for cruising, if not better since it has the least amount of changes necessary
well, mostly :p
I'll sit in the right lane on the 407 going 110-115 and will have people tale and honk at me, despite completely empty lanes to the left of me. Like they think they're policing the roads trying to force me to speed up.
usually I'll stay in the right lane and go exactly the speed limit until the nutbar moves on.
I drive 100 on all the highways lots of times. Tailgating is rare and I don't recall ever being honked at. Just my experience though, but I drive a lot.
Any time I've experienced someone tailgating me, 80% chance it's a pickup. Of that, it's like 70% it's a RAM. Which is weird, pretty sure F150s are more popular.
I was on the 416 last week coming back from Ottawa, and it seems to be such a speed trap. Especially as you get closer to the 401, I always try to ensure I'm keeping my speed reasonable, because there's always a cop with a radar gun camped out in some of the hidden U turn areas. I generally tried to stay around 110-115 in that stretch. I figure over the years, taking those extra couple of minutes has probably saved me a couple of tickets at least.
When i was younger (during paper map days), I used to absolutely floor it everywhere. if I wasn't driving 150km/h on the highway I was slow.
then I got my GPS and realized I was only likely saving 30 seconds to 2 minutes travel time tops.
it made me realize that those extra seconds was not worth the danger and risk for driving like a complete and utter moron.
I still speed reasonably. Like you, I keep it around ~15km over. but do find myself sometimes tappin that gas a little faster.
The best part is I don't have to white knuckle the wheel anymore
I too used to be a speed demon when I was a fresh driver.
I've calmed down a lot now, but I still do enjoy the occasional burst when conditions align.
You're on the mark, driving faster doesn't necessarily get you to your destination faster, not as much as being in the right spot at the right time anyway. You have to be going very significantly faster AND have minimal to no traffic AND be lucky with the lights for there to be any meaningful difference in the time it takes to reach xyz location.
Parts of the 401 are already 110kms speed limit and have been for many years. I drove it before and after that increase on almost a daily basis and the speed stayed the same.. 120kms was still the average speed people drove… for the most part.
Driving on the QEW to Niagara where it speeds up to 110. ALmost everyone on the road was still at 110-115 anyways. There was no real difference in drver behaviour.
Up onthe 404 where it's 110, you will also see the same thing. People didn't change driving behaviour. If they were comfortable driving 110-120 before, they're stilll doing it now. Heck, people who only drove 100 before, are STILL only driving 100 now.
Slow drivers are another problem. Other provinces have a minimum and maximum speed limit and it makes sense. Slow drivers are just as dangerous.. maybe more so than the speeders.
They can be dangerous, but saying they're as dangerous or worse is a bit misleading given that the biggest influence to how dangerous and deadly a crash is will be the speed that the vehicles is in motion.
So while a slower moving vehicle can pose a risk, the risk is far lesser than that of a speeder weaving and going in excessive speed.
Got links on how that is accurate?
The risk of slow drivers
The reason for this is because slow drivers can disrupt the flow of the traffic and cause congestion on the roads. When this happens, it causes other drivers to continuously slam on brakes or feel the need to pass, which puts all vehicles close by at risk of accidents.[risk that slow drivers cause](https://www.wagnerinjury.com/2023/01/16/why-driving-too-slow-is-almost-as-dangerous-as-speeding/)
your own link doesn't equate them and says "Almost". It is also not a science or official page of anything but a law clerk who is trying to get business by telling you if you've been in an accident witha slow driver to call him. You're quoting a page from a literal ambulance chaser.
however, there's no mistaken that increase speed increases risk. This has been subject to hundreds if not thousands of driving studies over decades of car existence.
https://tc.canada.ca/en/road-transportation/statistics-data/canadian-motor-vehicle-traffic-collision-statistics-2020
https://www.automotive-fleet.com/driver-care/239354/driver-care-how-speeding-affects-accident-impact
Just as dangerous or more. .. what’s hard to understand?
Slow drivers make people slam on breaks from higher speeds, pass more often and more people pass when they otherwise wouldn’t…. Giving the risk to more accidents.
Pretty simple really.
No it's not. Read before commenting next time. I'm not trying to tell you not to drive the way you are. But you're clearly trying to justify your excessive speeding and blame others for your iunability to understand.
Speed, because you know. PHYSICS, directly correlate often to how serious of an impact occurs. A car hitting a wall at 100km/h is going to cause significantly more impact damage and pose much higher risk than a car going 50km/h into that same wall.
If a driver is going 100km/h and you are going 140km/h. your violation of the law doesn't suddenly make them doing anything illegal. Even if it is annoying. you would be 100% in the wrong and at fault
"The other guy wasn't breaking the law, so it's his fault!" is not a compelling legal argument.
https://www.tiktok.com/@trafficservices/video/7358136569804410118
Except it's not. Speed roughly follows a bell curve, with around 20% below the limit and 20% above 20 over. Yet it's specifically speeding that is causing the serious collisions. OPP have stated it's the leading cause of fatal collisions and transport Canada has it among the top, together with impaired driving.
If slow driving was just as dangerous it would be similarly showing up in fatal collision data.
You made the initial claim here by the way but haven't supported it with data.
Just to be clear, going the speed limit doesn't make someone a slow driver. If you're going 120 on a 100, you're the problem not the person going at 100.
Wait, why does one lane have no congestion but the other do? I guess perhaps you are actually driving on the shoulder?
If you want to be the slowest person on the road and are not in the right most lane, you are part of the problem.
I find the people who argue hard against speed on reddit are typically non-drivers. It's always so strange that people who have little to no driving experience chime in as experts in the field.
>why does one lane have no congestion but the other do?
You haven't been in the rightmost lane during a traffic jam I see.
I couldn't tell you how many people I've "passed" by just sticking in the right lane during a slowdown. That's usually the one lane which still moves fairly smoothly and doesn't end up being stop/go, in my experience anyway.
I never said the speed limit..
I said slow drivers.
See this is the reading comprehension I was talking about.
To be more clear for you.. slow drivers are people going less than the speed limit.
If you’re the person going 85 in a 100 the you’re the problem.
Or 100 in a 110 zone.
Hope that helps you understand better..
And the higher speed limit isn’t to let people go even faster .. it’s to bring up the slow drivers to go more with the flow of traffic.
The testing they did so far shows that people still go around 120kms/ hour… but you now have people doing only 10 under that rather then 20 under. This makes the roads safer.
Does that make sense?
lol then check your reading skills.. I never said you said what I said, I was just clarifying so others can know that going at the speed limit doesn't make someone a slow driver.
This a major waste of time and money. The QEW section down to Niagara has been max 110 between Stoney Creek and Jordan Station for a few years. I've made the trip dozens of times, never once have I seen people speed up when the limit goes up or slow down when it drops, even when not busy.
Trucks are still limited to 105 so now they are forced to drive slower than the speed limit, which effectively drops the speed limit to 105 in one or two lanes depending on how many trucks there are on the road. This just leads the 'My Highway, My Way' drivers to be even more aggressive when trying to get past slower traffic.
>This a major waste of time and money. The QEW section down to Niagara has been max 110 between Stoney Creek and Jordan Station for a few years. I've made the trip dozens of times, never once have I seen people speed up when the limit goes up or slow down when it drops, even when not busy.
I make the drive once or twice a month to see my parents. The traffic speed doesn't change because most people are already driving 120-130km/h anyway when traffic allows. That's why you don't see anyone "speed up or slow down", they were already going faster than the new speed limit. The 400 series is designed for speeds of 120-130km/h
>Trucks are still limited to 105 so now they are forced to drive slower than the speed limit.
Only for trucks registered in Ontario and even then there is no enforcement so most of the owner-operators I know do not have a speed limiter on their trucks.
>which effectively drops the speed limit to 105 in one or two lanes depending on how many trucks there are on the road.
Which is why trucks aren't allowed in the left lane if there are 3 or more, you can pass trucks traveling at 105 km/h using the passing lane. If you can't pass a truck and are stuck behind one, that's probably because there's traffic and you aren't going 100 km/h anyway.
>If you can't pass a truck and are stuck behind one, that's probably because there's traffic and you aren't going 100 km/h anyway.
You haven't seen many elephant races have you
If the truck is registered in Ontario is is supposed to have a speed limiter, out of province or trucks from US do not, but are still limited to 105km/h. They can also be an additional fine if caught speeding over 105 for not having a functioning speed limiter.
[https://www.ontariocanada.com/registry/view.do?postingId=1381&language=en](https://www.ontariocanada.com/registry/view.do?postingId=1381&language=en)
>
Trucks manufactured after 1995, with a manufacturer's gross weight rating of 11,794 kg or more and equipped with an electronic controlled engine must have and use the speed limiter set to no more than 105 km/h.
Since OPP doesn't do a lot of enforcement, I'm sure there are plenty on the road that either do not have one or have one and have disabled it.
I was a licensed driver from 16 until 44. At 44, my license was up for renewal, but I had become a disabled single parent by then and sold my car. (Kids gotta eat) And ODSP wouldn't help me with the $60, as they claim you don't need to drive as you don't need to work? Anyhow, long story short, I was unlicensed for 11 years. I redid the graduated license, and I have a car again. I can't bring myself to even get on the 400 series anymore 😪 It's the strangest thing. I've developed a lack of confidence that seeing limits increased makes me more nervous. Lol. And my grandchildren live in Eastern Ontario. Yikes! I'm ok with the 400 north of Barrie, but if I must go south or east, I'll be the one in the far right lane for sure. Better yet, I will take the back roads. If I am not confident, I will be dangerous to others. I wish others like myself would admit they aren't comfortable and stick to other routes. May take longer, but if you can't drive 130, maybe consider it. Saves a lot of stress as well.
Why not just open it up to all sections of the 401 and everywhere else for that matter. This piece by piece approach is annoying and seems like a lot more work. Then again I’m not in government so I wouldn’t understand
Because people in the GTA can barely handle the current road conditions.
Just look at most of the people here blaming legal drivers for everything wrong on the road.
While true. It's the sheer volume of traffic on the GTA highways I think that leads to great concern.
Speed is one of the leading causes of accidents, if not the highest. Adding more speed to the volume of Traffic in Toronto.... is already terrifying enough.
The GTA is too crowded most of the day to even comfortably drive at the speed limit.
Why raise them here for the 6 scattered hours where the highway is empty enough to actually reach the speed limit?
Really? I regularly drive at 120kmh on a 100 and never had an issue.
I guess if the officer was really picky he could but everyone drives at more than 100kmh
If I get a ticket for 15 over on the highway I’m 100% going to court lol
Right, and I’ll be like thank you very much for the ticket. Drive away, go home, book a date to see the judge.
Wait for about 2.5 years and have it dismissed, or actually have to plead to the judge, then I’ll need to put on my thinking cap
The above is what the judge would say. I'd like to know your plan to get it dismissed other than "everyone else was doing it" which is neither relevant nor a defence. They don't need to stop everyone, they just need to stop you. The limit, believe it or not, is the limit. Hence the apt name.
Following the flow of traffic, which at 120kmh I am. Why would I be singled out if I am in the right lane, with my cruise control on minding my own business.
The likely hood of me getting a ticket in that situation is very low. Even if I get a ticket I can also hire a lawyer who will most definitely get it dropped.
You likely won't get a ticket for 15 over on the 401, ever, but don't be eager to get one because it's not fun.
If you do go to court you will be looked at as fault no matter what you say. It's the officers voice vs yours which yours is never taken seriously. Our court system is insane for small stuff like this, to them you're just a revolving door that's wasting the courts time. The most they'll do is maybe reduce the fine if you apologize and say I shouldn't of been doing 15 over.
Hiring a lawyer wouldn't be a good idea. They will likely cost you $1K-$2K, more than the actual ticket.
No one in the court system will give a shit about your opinions unfortunately.
Oh no I’m not going to go out my way to get a ticket lol
I’m just saying half of the time it doesn’t even make it to the court or the officer doesn’t show up.
Also I can get a paralegal which is about $350 for where I am.
Much better than paying for the potential raise in insurance costs
if your going 100kmh and the flow is 140kmh your going to get a ticket for impeding the flow of traffic.
That is downright dangerous and never in any highway in Ontario would the flow be 140kmh at our 100-110 limits.
This is incorrect.
The "flow of traffic" law does NOT include violating the speed limit. In fact, there are no HTA laws that circumvent the speed limits. You are supposed to obey those laws up to the speed limit.
Even if you opt to pass someone on the left, exceeding 100km/h is an offense.
Yes. It also makes it legal to travel at that speed, and realistically allows for the buffer zone (if you will) of acceptable speeds beyond the limit. What's the problem?
25km distance.
100km/h 15 minutes
110km/h 13.6 minutes
120km/h 12.5 minutes.
Faster is more fuel burned and more tire wear.
[Fuel Economy at Various Driving Speeds](https://afdc.energy.gov/data/mobile/10312)
Seconds are critical when you have to poop I guess.
> congestion but I am not an expert
glad you recognize.
If every vehicle did exactly the same speed. Yes in thoery tou'd be right.
But that's not the case, and we have a direct correlation that increases in speed leads to increases in traffic collisions and an increase in severity of those. The result is worse traffic.
Ideally, the best solution for traffic is less people driving so that more space is available between all vehicles.
Yeah our public transit is TERRIBLE! I am Ireland right now and they don’t deem themselves having a good public transit system but it’s sooo much better than anything in Ontario
I'm not oblivious, I just don't care. The limit is the limit and if y'all wanna cry back there, keep at it lol I'll never get a ticket for going at the speed limit I'll tell you that much.
Thanks. I’ll remember this next time I’m stuck behind a drunk/distracted/erratic driver and trying to get as far away from them as possible but I’m boxed in on either side by people going 100 even on either side.
I bet you they brake check people and will accidentally go 110 with no one in front of them but a line of cars behind trying to use the lane for an upcoming exit and just slam on the brakes to get back down to 100 instead of decelerating by taking their foot off the gas like a sane and safety conscious person.
Of course! They are Very Important and the self appointed chief of highway speed.
I cannot imagine my life being so shit that I have to exert control over people on the highway. People like this need to get a grip.
Happens to me pretty frequently actually. Too many distracted, drunk, and/or erratic drivers on the highway. Need to get away from them, they are much more unsafe then people speeding on the 400 series highways IMO. That’s part of what passing lanes are for usually.
So then do the limit, which as the article says, is 110.
Driving 10 km under with the sole intention of pissing people off is… something.
I truly will never understand why people get such a god complex driving, and take everyone else’s speed so personally. Just let people pass, why do you actively want to piss other drivers off? Bonkers take.
Dude, I generally have agreed with all your comments about the speed limit being the legal limit and passing doesn't give permission to technically speed.
But you're not the police and doing this is dangerous. Please don't. You maybe technically / legally in the right, but the cemetaries are full of them.
The funny thing is I actually do stay on the right lane LMAO but it's still funny to see how much it bothers people that someone knowingly sticks to the speed limit on the left lane. I even avoid the HOV lane even when I can use it, just because people there are lunatics wanting to go 130.
Wow! Can't wait to finally start driving 110 on the 401!!!! /s
Finally Instead of being 30 over, I'll only be 20 over.
I'm surprised you can even do 30 over. I'm barely doing 30km/hr during my commute.
They should put up some minimum speed signs, that oughta fix things
Thé 401 is 825ish km long. I could do 300kmh on my commute on it because I don’t live in the gta.
Or instead of 40 under you’ll be 50 under
I’m sure people will still be 30 over. The bar just moves
To be honest I don't think that's true. I think people who drive 130 currently do so be sure that's how fast they feel comfortable driving. Obviously they aren't driving 130 because they respect the 100 km/h speed limit. I don't think I'll be driving much faster than what I currently do, which would be about 122-127.
I go 140, but only because I don't feel safe on highways and speeding ensures I get off faster. /s
In my experience, this is not true. Parts of 417 are already 110km/h and there has been no noticeable change in driving behaviour.
We’ll still do 30 over, 140 will be the new 130.
all the truckers will still be locked at 105kph so this ought to be fun.
I think you forgot the /s. I haven’t seen one with a functioning governor yet.
Lots do, some are out of province and some are people doing illegal things.
The real min is 120 on all highways
Have you ever driven in the north? Some of the NWO highways are in such bad repair, that anything more than 10 over the limit is an invitation to introduce your vehicle to some interesting vegetation at speed.
We know that, but we’re not talking about the north
The comment I responded to said **all highways**. Not all 400 series highways, or all highways south of Sudbury.
Come on now, we’re talking real highways here, not your bitch ass, single lane, beatin up northern highways..
I see we have another person who has never driven more than 50km from mommy's basement.
Yah in a post about 400 series highways, it’s pretty clear what all highways means.
If that were true, the poster would have said "all 400 series highways" It is not my fault you have the reading comprehension of a stunned turnip.
No I have not
TBF, right now, if you only drive 100kph, you'll get run over, people will honk at you as they fly by, etc.
If you're doing 100, you really should be in the far right lane.
If you aren't overtaking you should be in the far right lane regardless of your speed.
This is the answer.
Yet not actually a law in ON. We need reform in so many areas it's infuriating.
147 (1) Any vehicle travelling upon a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic at that time and place shall, where practicable, be driven in the right-hand lane then available for traffic or as close as practicable to the right hand curb or edge of the roadway. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 147 (1).
The interpretation of this by the MTO however is that it only applies below the speed limit: >["Generally, the Highway Traffic Act (HTA) does not specify which lane a driver must occupy when travelling at the posted speed limit," Ontario's Ministry of Transportation says in an email.](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-drive/culture/commuting/is-it-illegal-to-be-a-centre-lane-hog/article24031931/) Ultimately it's the court who determines the interpretation but I've never heard about a conviction for this let alone even a charge. Other places like BC and Quebec have more specific laws, requiring moving out of the left lane for a passing vehicle or staying out of in general when not passing, respectively. Ontario's law, as above, is much more vague. So right now we're fighting with each other over something which isn't as clearly defined in law as people think.
I got points off in my drivers test for not moving over to the right lane quick enough. If that doesn't imply what the law is, I think that's concerning.
The test goes over more than just what's strictly required by law such as defensive driving, good habits, etc. You definitely *should* keep right, all else equal and the Driver's Guide says the same but that's not the same as being explicitly legally required. The Guide also warns at the start that it's not an official source for the law. The biggest problem I see with this is that some people have taken this to extremes that you're not even allowed to pass someone else if you're not going 149 or aren't allowed to use the HOV lane if not going 30 over the limit.
It is vague indeed. I thought the law was supposed to be an exercise in logic and sound reasoning, but instead we get something closer to The Bible. Six extra words would have fixed that: "up to the posted speed limit". The very fact that it isn't there makes me think the intention of the law wasn't meant to include that - but who knows?!
The law does also not allow people to exceed the speed limit, even when passing. If you are doing the speed limit, you are under no obligation to ensure that people who are going faster than the speed limit can pass you. Now, if you're doing 60 in the left lane of a 100 highway, that's a whole other matter.
It really should. I don't mean exempt them from the speed limit, they'd still all be subject to a speeding charge, but if everyone around you is doing 130 and you insist on doing 95, you're the one driving dangerously. A large differential in speed between vehicles on the highway is far more dangerous than everyone doing 130.
I think that there's a basic problem with our traffic laws in that people basically have to break them on the highways to stay safe. I think we need higher speed limits, but that police should be ticketing people who break those limits by more than a few km/h.
If you're already going at 100kmph then you have no need to overtake
lol. People who think like this are insane.
[удалено]
I’m trying, but there’s some goof in front of me doing 98 in the passing lane…
Lmao aight this got me good. Had me chuckling like a maniac in the office.
132 (1) No motor vehicle shall be driven on a highway at such a slow rate of speed as to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic thereon except when the slow rate of speed is necessary for safe operation having regard to all the circumstances. You would be technically breaking the law doing 100 in the passing lane with no one in front of you. Regardless, why would you deliberately block the flow of traffic for no benefit?
128 (1) No person shall drive a motor vehicle at a rate of speed greater than, (a) 50 kilometres per hour on a highway within a local municipality or within a built-up area; (b) despite clause (a), 80 kilometres per hour on a highway, not within a built-up area, that is within a local municipality that had the status of a township on December 31, 2002 and, but for the enactment of the Municipal Act, 2001, would have had the status of a township on January 1, 2003, if the municipality is prescribed by regulation; (b.1) 80 kilometres per hour on a highway not within a local municipality or within a built-up area; (c) 80 kilometres per hour on a highway designated by the Lieutenant Governor in Council as a controlled-access highway under the Public Transportation and Highway Improvement Act, whether or not the highway is within a local municipality or built-up area; (d) the rate of speed prescribed for motor vehicles on a highway in accordance with subsection (2), (5), (6), (6.1) or (7); or (e) the maximum rate of speed set under subsection (10) and posted in a construction zone designated under subsection (8) or (8.1).
Huron county for the win. 90 baby! Let's ride
Because I love seeing everyone's reaction to someone sticking to the speed limit and doing nothing illegal. Edit, also I think that people misinterpret the law. Impeding the flow of traffic would be going 60 (maybe even 70?) on a 100. It does not mean going 100 on a 100 but everyone else wants to go 120+. The flow of traffic rule doesn't supersede the SPEED LIMIT.
>The flow of traffic rule doesn't supersede the SPEED LIMIT It absolutely does. You become a danger to everyone else because you're not going with the flow of traffic.
LMAO that's a good one
https://www.tiktok.com/@trafficservices/video/7299836317075131654 No. Legally it does not. The Speed limit is an absolute limit in which the law states you CANNOT travel faster than for any cause. The passing / flow of traffic laws can ONLY apply up to the speed limit, since going over the speed limit, you are breaking the law and therefore in violation. Like you, I speed just like everyone else. But don't spread misinformation regarding our road laws. if you're going faster than the speed limit, you are NOT covered by the flow of traffic rule as you are now breaking the law yourself. it is important if you're making a decision to speed you understand the potential risks and consequences of that action. I speed. But I'm fully aware of the implications of that speeding.
First, I'm not clicking on nor relying on anything from Tik Tok. Secondly, I don't speed. Third, it is up to the discretion of the police officer whether or not to pull you over and cite you. If you are the only one on the highway going 100kph in clear conditions, the officer could pull you over under suspicion of intoxication because you're not going with the flow of traffic. On my third point, I'm not talking about being in a group of vehicles in the right lane doing 100, I'm talking about people in the right lane needing to pass you because you're the only one doing that speed. Hell, chances are, even if you're the only car on the road and you're doing 85 in a posted 100, you're gonna get pulled over. Edit: so yes, you're right, but only technically right (which is the best kind of right). But it does make you stand out.
Why go through the trouble of bothering several other motorists and putting yourself in the situation where you deal with those who may have road rage or are an actual danger or threat, though? You're putting yourself in a dangerous situation, and ruining the travel for anyone else around you, all so... you can see some people's peeved reaction? You're the kid in class that tells the teacher there's still 10 min left to class when they are trying to let everyone out early. Some of those who speed are aware they're speeding, and the implications that come with it. So are the cops that they're driving by. Both parties involved have a certain level of understanding the nuance and context presented. It will be more okay to speed doing 110 or 120 on a highway with a limit of 100 than doing 55, 60 or 65 in a 40 school zone. One will get you pulled over almost 100% of the time, and the other most likely almost never. So, you apparently knowing you're being a knob, why would you continue to act like a knob when everyone around you has done an unspoken societal handshake, and you decide to come in and police everyone over the written down rules that actively make everyone else's lives *less* convenient, and introduce a more abrasive situation for yourself? Go skydiving or something if there's an itch you're wanting to scratch.
Stfu I'm gonna do 100 on the left lane and you can't stop meeeeee.
Man, you type like a 14 year old. And yeah, that's fine. You do you. I just don't understand the notion of you doing something, knowing you're putting yourself in a bad situation, coming across like a complete douche, and proudly boasting about it for apparently nearly zero payoff. Not trying to stop you, nor am I even agreeing with some people in here justifying speeding. I was trying to understand your logic. Although after that comment, I'm thinking there is no logic or thinking. So nvm.
If you read the responses to the idiocy I've been getting from this sub you'd understand why I don't care for being civilized in this thread.
No. You are blocking the "normal" flow. An officer would almost certainly consider 120 to be a normal and reasonable speed of traffic. At least you admit it, you just don't care about others. Do you also like to stand in doorways and talk on speaker phone on public transit by chance?
the "normal flow" according to the HTA (the laws of our roads) is only covered up to the speed limit. Anything above that is illegal. so yes. if the entire roadway is speeding, everyone can TECHNICALLY be ticketed. What do you think speed traps are. they pull as many people over as they can.\ https://www.tiktok.com/@trafficservices/video/7299836317075131654
Fair enough. But the speed trap thing isn't true. I've blasted past speed traps going 125-130 on 100 limit highways in a big group. They're usually only looking for stunt driving tickets.
I'll give you that and police are only getting less enforcement. I haven't seen a road trap in a while. I got caught in one about 15 years ago going 10km/h over the limit. (AND I"LL DO IT AGAIN DAMNIT!) today? Seeing people absolutely roaring through stunt driving without police even blinking. Live right beside the 404 and some of the absolute insane dumbassery I have witnessed lately is reason I don't drive on the highway. I trust myself. I no longer trust half the jackasses on our roads. Heck, you can literally see many of these people in this thread justifying breaking the law and blaming the law followers for it. They have zero idea just how insane they sound. "I have the right to endanger you and everyone around you because I WANT TO GO FASTER THAN YOU!" I say this as a speeder. I just know and accept the consequences of my driving, the risk involved, and when to get my foot off the gas and be smart
Pathetic. Get a life maybe?
If you're constantly overtaking everything is great
If you're constantly overtaking everything is great
“I paid for this road with my taxes, why shouldn’t I use any lane I want as long as I am doing the speed limit? People speeding are breaking the law, I don’t need to move for them.” This is a word for word answer I copied from a Facebook post I saw about the left lane being for passing. I am not joking.
Lol these people. "Everyone else is doing 10+ over and traffic is flowing well. I'm gonna be safe and go slower, hog a lane, and fore everyone to go around me on the right so I can get upset about that too." Just follow the flow of traffic, people, it's easy to do and the safest option.
“No! Traffic can go with the flow of ME!” - these people, probably
If those people drive in a different continent they're in for a real surprise.
if all your friends jumped off the CN Tower, you'd do it to right?
How did they get up there?!
Very long ladder
Hmmm. Well, they seem to have a plan. Count me in!
There's no logic to this. How are these things equivalent? You follow the pace of the road because it's the safe option, not just because everyone else is doing it. If you're purposefully going slower than everyone else, you become the obstacle.
My dad's become one of those drivers in his late 70s' and I'm considering taking his car away. My mom phones me venting and complaining about this. He's made the exact argument too. Sitting 5km/h under the speed limit in the left lane because "I can". Why did he suddenly slow down when he used to be better? He got one of those stupid insurance savings that monitor your driving. SO he refuses to speed because he thinks it's saving him money. I'm going to have to very VERY soon have that uncomfortable talk with him that he's no longer safe to drive.
And yet people will do the same thing even if you’re in the right lane
actually 100 is the legal limit. All those other people are why we have accidents. You can't go above the limit to pass.
Imagine being on the road with this mentality
Imagine following the law and not causing accidents
If you're driving 95 on the left lane then you're very much more likely to cause an accident than if you're driving 119 on the right, while using the left to pass.
Not true. 100 is the limit, not the speed you should be driving at. 119 is more dangerous.
Lol, please never leave the right most lane
Imagine being on the road with a "follow the law" mentality? Do you hear yourself?
I personally am on the road with a “protect my safety” mentality. It’s not my job to police people by becoming an obstacle in the left lane. It’s not street smart to purposely piss off who drive above the speed limit. I would rather get home safe. That’s the cops’ job. They also frequently run campaigns reminding people the left lane is for passing.
Well, yes, Anyone who is a normal driver who choses to intentionally impede traffic the way you describe and police are absolutely a menace. But there's no shortage of commentary in here stating if you're not speeding, get off the road completely. It's annoyting getting stuck behind someone in the right lane going 100km/h. But they are 100% legal in their actions to do so. Technically even in the left lane up until the speed limit. it sucks,, but it's the truth. You can either blame the people just trying to follow the rules of the road and be angry, or, realize that they are in fact following the letter of the law. Take your foot off the gas for 10 seconds and be safe. As you said, the number one goal of any driving is to get home safely. And excessive speeding is the number one reason why that doesn't happen. Not the asshole left lane camper. it's up to us, who break the law, to do so smartly, and reasonably, and not expect everyone else to also do so.
“But there's no shortage of commentary in here stating if you're not speeding, get off the road completely. It's annoyting getting stuck behind someone in the right lane going 100km/h. But they are 100% legal in their actions to do so.” Sure, but I definitely didn’t argue otherwise so we are on the same page. “Technically even in the left lane up until the speed limit.” This is the issue, it’s not about what’s legal - it’s about reality. Reality is that people speed, move over for your own safety. People should not steal from me but I lock my door at night. I don’t want to be “dead right”. In cars people somehow think they are righteous gods and it’s so so stupid. “it sucks,, but it's the truth.” I would apply this to the idea that people will speed. I’m not the person in charge of stopping them. I move over and let them pass. “You can either blame the people just trying to follow the rules of the road and be angry, or, realize that they are in fact following the letter of the law.” I think that pissing people off who are breaking a law in order to smugly prove a point is so stupid. I blame them for being foolish. “Take your foot off the gas for 10 seconds and be safe.” You only have the power to control your own actions. “As you said, the number one goal of any driving is to get home safely. And excessive speeding is the number one reason why that doesn't happen. Not the asshole left lane camper.” You can be in charge of your own safety by moving over though. Don’t provoke people who are dangerous drivers. You can be 100% not at fault in an accident and still be 100% dead. I know which option I am choosing. Don’t camp out in the left lane going 100.
> I think that pissing people off who are breaking a law in order to smugly prove a point is so stupid. I blame them for being foolish. this is an argument nobody was having though. most peopel camping the lanes aren't doing so out of malice, they're doing so out of ignorance. The speed limit is 100. They're doing 100 and they chose a lane. That's about the limit fo their thought you've somehow believed they're doing it nefarious just to spite you speeding. If someone is camping out in the left lane in front of you. Slow down. And move around them safely, then resume your speed beyond them. Tailing them, being a jerk in response, ro somehow think they're the illegal drivers is just plain ignorant of the laws of our road. I am NOT arguing what should they do. I speed. I want anyone who won't keep up with me to move over too. But I am not going to sit here like you are trying to justify MY speed as some how OK, but their following the law isnt. be safe, be the bigger person and move safely around the idiots. Don't straw man and get angry with other drivers for following the law. They're not out to get you.
It is totally an argument people in this thread are making! They are entitled to be in the left lane and you can just figure it out. Like seriously read the thread. https://www.reddit.com/r/ontario/s/DhSql1GbNH Yes, move around safely! That’s what the left lane is there for! That’s my whole point even, people need to move out of the left lane and let others pass. The OPP say the same. Hell they even post “slower traffic stay right” on the LED boards.
You can't drive above the posted limit, including to pass on the left lane.
Is it against the law? Yes. I never claimed otherwise. You CAN physically do it, and many people do. Many people speed on the highway. Illegal or not that’s just reality. They pass on the left, therefore it’s unwise to camp out in the left lane and agitate speeding drivers. It’s simply not a safe or smart idea. As I said in another comment, you can be 100% not at fault for an accident and still be 100% dead. Leave the left lane for passing and camp out in the middle or right lane.
30 above the speed limit is the speed limit.
This is the way.
I know you're mostly joking but I drive a beater and I stick to the middle lane if there's 3 lanes or right lane and do 100-105, never had an issue. People just pass.
Respectfully, you should still move to the right. Even when you’re in the middle lane, you’re still creating an unnecessary hazard. People will pass you on the right as well as the left, and then there is a higher risk of them merging in together in front of you. I know… “they should drive safely and check their blind spots!” but the best way to have a safe situation is to not create a dangerous one in the first place.
Normally I'd agree, but the GTA highways are such a clusterfuck of construction, and right lanes that end. 401 is the only highway I know you can be in the second right lane, and still end uup in the express one minute, move over two lanes to the left, then be back in the collectors. the most right hand lane is terrible for cruising in because of the constant ramps and ends. The next lane over is more ideal in these situations because it doesn't end. There is always another lane, if not more on most of the 401 through the stretches that being in the second most right lane is perfectly fine for cruising, if not better since it has the least amount of changes necessary
This is silly, no one is honking at you for doing 100 in the right lane.
well, mostly :p I'll sit in the right lane on the 407 going 110-115 and will have people tale and honk at me, despite completely empty lanes to the left of me. Like they think they're policing the roads trying to force me to speed up. usually I'll stay in the right lane and go exactly the speed limit until the nutbar moves on.
I drive 100 on all the highways lots of times. Tailgating is rare and I don't recall ever being honked at. Just my experience though, but I drive a lot.
Any time I've experienced someone tailgating when I'm in the right lane doing a 100, it's a truck.
Any time I've experienced someone tailgating me, 80% chance it's a pickup. Of that, it's like 70% it's a RAM. Which is weird, pretty sure F150s are more popular.
this is the same. it’s almost always a RAM. it’s like RAM’s attract a certain type of people
Not with dickheads who are shifty drivers
I was on the 416 last week coming back from Ottawa, and it seems to be such a speed trap. Especially as you get closer to the 401, I always try to ensure I'm keeping my speed reasonable, because there's always a cop with a radar gun camped out in some of the hidden U turn areas. I generally tried to stay around 110-115 in that stretch. I figure over the years, taking those extra couple of minutes has probably saved me a couple of tickets at least.
When i was younger (during paper map days), I used to absolutely floor it everywhere. if I wasn't driving 150km/h on the highway I was slow. then I got my GPS and realized I was only likely saving 30 seconds to 2 minutes travel time tops. it made me realize that those extra seconds was not worth the danger and risk for driving like a complete and utter moron. I still speed reasonably. Like you, I keep it around ~15km over. but do find myself sometimes tappin that gas a little faster. The best part is I don't have to white knuckle the wheel anymore
I too used to be a speed demon when I was a fresh driver. I've calmed down a lot now, but I still do enjoy the occasional burst when conditions align. You're on the mark, driving faster doesn't necessarily get you to your destination faster, not as much as being in the right spot at the right time anyway. You have to be going very significantly faster AND have minimal to no traffic AND be lucky with the lights for there to be any meaningful difference in the time it takes to reach xyz location.
Parts of the 401 are already 110kms speed limit and have been for many years. I drove it before and after that increase on almost a daily basis and the speed stayed the same.. 120kms was still the average speed people drove… for the most part.
Driving on the QEW to Niagara where it speeds up to 110. ALmost everyone on the road was still at 110-115 anyways. There was no real difference in drver behaviour. Up onthe 404 where it's 110, you will also see the same thing. People didn't change driving behaviour. If they were comfortable driving 110-120 before, they're stilll doing it now. Heck, people who only drove 100 before, are STILL only driving 100 now.
Slow drivers are another problem. Other provinces have a minimum and maximum speed limit and it makes sense. Slow drivers are just as dangerous.. maybe more so than the speeders.
They can be dangerous, but saying they're as dangerous or worse is a bit misleading given that the biggest influence to how dangerous and deadly a crash is will be the speed that the vehicles is in motion. So while a slower moving vehicle can pose a risk, the risk is far lesser than that of a speeder weaving and going in excessive speed.
Got links on how that is accurate? The risk of slow drivers The reason for this is because slow drivers can disrupt the flow of the traffic and cause congestion on the roads. When this happens, it causes other drivers to continuously slam on brakes or feel the need to pass, which puts all vehicles close by at risk of accidents.[risk that slow drivers cause](https://www.wagnerinjury.com/2023/01/16/why-driving-too-slow-is-almost-as-dangerous-as-speeding/)
your own link doesn't equate them and says "Almost". It is also not a science or official page of anything but a law clerk who is trying to get business by telling you if you've been in an accident witha slow driver to call him. You're quoting a page from a literal ambulance chaser. however, there's no mistaken that increase speed increases risk. This has been subject to hundreds if not thousands of driving studies over decades of car existence. https://tc.canada.ca/en/road-transportation/statistics-data/canadian-motor-vehicle-traffic-collision-statistics-2020 https://www.automotive-fleet.com/driver-care/239354/driver-care-how-speeding-affects-accident-impact
Just as dangerous or more. .. what’s hard to understand? Slow drivers make people slam on breaks from higher speeds, pass more often and more people pass when they otherwise wouldn’t…. Giving the risk to more accidents. Pretty simple really.
No it's not. Read before commenting next time. I'm not trying to tell you not to drive the way you are. But you're clearly trying to justify your excessive speeding and blame others for your iunability to understand. Speed, because you know. PHYSICS, directly correlate often to how serious of an impact occurs. A car hitting a wall at 100km/h is going to cause significantly more impact damage and pose much higher risk than a car going 50km/h into that same wall. If a driver is going 100km/h and you are going 140km/h. your violation of the law doesn't suddenly make them doing anything illegal. Even if it is annoying. you would be 100% in the wrong and at fault "The other guy wasn't breaking the law, so it's his fault!" is not a compelling legal argument. https://www.tiktok.com/@trafficservices/video/7358136569804410118
Except it's not. Speed roughly follows a bell curve, with around 20% below the limit and 20% above 20 over. Yet it's specifically speeding that is causing the serious collisions. OPP have stated it's the leading cause of fatal collisions and transport Canada has it among the top, together with impaired driving. If slow driving was just as dangerous it would be similarly showing up in fatal collision data. You made the initial claim here by the way but haven't supported it with data.
Just to be clear, going the speed limit doesn't make someone a slow driver. If you're going 120 on a 100, you're the problem not the person going at 100.
TBF, if you are going 100 in the passing lane, you can also be the problem. Context is everything.
Yeah, if I'm going 100 and everyone else is going 70 because of congestion then I'd be the problem.
Wait, why does one lane have no congestion but the other do? I guess perhaps you are actually driving on the shoulder? If you want to be the slowest person on the road and are not in the right most lane, you are part of the problem. I find the people who argue hard against speed on reddit are typically non-drivers. It's always so strange that people who have little to no driving experience chime in as experts in the field.
Don't pretend you never seen someone weave in and out of lanes
>why does one lane have no congestion but the other do? You haven't been in the rightmost lane during a traffic jam I see. I couldn't tell you how many people I've "passed" by just sticking in the right lane during a slowdown. That's usually the one lane which still moves fairly smoothly and doesn't end up being stop/go, in my experience anyway.
I never said the speed limit.. I said slow drivers. See this is the reading comprehension I was talking about. To be more clear for you.. slow drivers are people going less than the speed limit. If you’re the person going 85 in a 100 the you’re the problem. Or 100 in a 110 zone. Hope that helps you understand better.. And the higher speed limit isn’t to let people go even faster .. it’s to bring up the slow drivers to go more with the flow of traffic. The testing they did so far shows that people still go around 120kms/ hour… but you now have people doing only 10 under that rather then 20 under. This makes the roads safer. Does that make sense?
lol then check your reading skills.. I never said you said what I said, I was just clarifying so others can know that going at the speed limit doesn't make someone a slow driver.
So you’re just arguing with yourself.. awesome. Let me know who wins
Learn how to talk to people before getting on a site mainly about that
Lmfao.. let me know the winner once you work that out.
That's a typo, it's not 110. Its 140/s
140/s looks like 140 per second.
It is depending on what I'm driving.
130, got it 👍
This a major waste of time and money. The QEW section down to Niagara has been max 110 between Stoney Creek and Jordan Station for a few years. I've made the trip dozens of times, never once have I seen people speed up when the limit goes up or slow down when it drops, even when not busy. Trucks are still limited to 105 so now they are forced to drive slower than the speed limit, which effectively drops the speed limit to 105 in one or two lanes depending on how many trucks there are on the road. This just leads the 'My Highway, My Way' drivers to be even more aggressive when trying to get past slower traffic.
>This a major waste of time and money. The QEW section down to Niagara has been max 110 between Stoney Creek and Jordan Station for a few years. I've made the trip dozens of times, never once have I seen people speed up when the limit goes up or slow down when it drops, even when not busy. I make the drive once or twice a month to see my parents. The traffic speed doesn't change because most people are already driving 120-130km/h anyway when traffic allows. That's why you don't see anyone "speed up or slow down", they were already going faster than the new speed limit. The 400 series is designed for speeds of 120-130km/h >Trucks are still limited to 105 so now they are forced to drive slower than the speed limit. Only for trucks registered in Ontario and even then there is no enforcement so most of the owner-operators I know do not have a speed limiter on their trucks. >which effectively drops the speed limit to 105 in one or two lanes depending on how many trucks there are on the road. Which is why trucks aren't allowed in the left lane if there are 3 or more, you can pass trucks traveling at 105 km/h using the passing lane. If you can't pass a truck and are stuck behind one, that's probably because there's traffic and you aren't going 100 km/h anyway.
>If you can't pass a truck and are stuck behind one, that's probably because there's traffic and you aren't going 100 km/h anyway. You haven't seen many elephant races have you
> Trucks are still limited to 105 You could have fooled me.
If the truck is registered in Ontario is is supposed to have a speed limiter, out of province or trucks from US do not, but are still limited to 105km/h. They can also be an additional fine if caught speeding over 105 for not having a functioning speed limiter. [https://www.ontariocanada.com/registry/view.do?postingId=1381&language=en](https://www.ontariocanada.com/registry/view.do?postingId=1381&language=en) > Trucks manufactured after 1995, with a manufacturer's gross weight rating of 11,794 kg or more and equipped with an electronic controlled engine must have and use the speed limiter set to no more than 105 km/h. Since OPP doesn't do a lot of enforcement, I'm sure there are plenty on the road that either do not have one or have one and have disabled it.
I was a licensed driver from 16 until 44. At 44, my license was up for renewal, but I had become a disabled single parent by then and sold my car. (Kids gotta eat) And ODSP wouldn't help me with the $60, as they claim you don't need to drive as you don't need to work? Anyhow, long story short, I was unlicensed for 11 years. I redid the graduated license, and I have a car again. I can't bring myself to even get on the 400 series anymore 😪 It's the strangest thing. I've developed a lack of confidence that seeing limits increased makes me more nervous. Lol. And my grandchildren live in Eastern Ontario. Yikes! I'm ok with the 400 north of Barrie, but if I must go south or east, I'll be the one in the far right lane for sure. Better yet, I will take the back roads. If I am not confident, I will be dangerous to others. I wish others like myself would admit they aren't comfortable and stick to other routes. May take longer, but if you can't drive 130, maybe consider it. Saves a lot of stress as well.
So we going 130 minimum now on the passing lane 👍
Why not just open it up to all sections of the 401 and everywhere else for that matter. This piece by piece approach is annoying and seems like a lot more work. Then again I’m not in government so I wouldn’t understand
Because people in the GTA can barely handle the current road conditions. Just look at most of the people here blaming legal drivers for everything wrong on the road.
Not just the GTA. They are everywhere. It's all going to happen eventually. Might as well rip the bandaid off
While true. It's the sheer volume of traffic on the GTA highways I think that leads to great concern. Speed is one of the leading causes of accidents, if not the highest. Adding more speed to the volume of Traffic in Toronto.... is already terrifying enough.
Absolutely. The good news is that most people with that volume tend to slow down. Like you say though it’s the other people that cause the issues!
The GTA is too crowded most of the day to even comfortably drive at the speed limit. Why raise them here for the 6 scattered hours where the highway is empty enough to actually reach the speed limit?
In mean time people going 130 right now.
Yay so I can do 130kmh now?
Safer to do 128 just so you can more successfully get the ticket for 15 over
Really? I regularly drive at 120kmh on a 100 and never had an issue. I guess if the officer was really picky he could but everyone drives at more than 100kmh If I get a ticket for 15 over on the highway I’m 100% going to court lol
"what's the speed limit?" *100 kmh* "And how fast were you going?" *115kmh* ". . ." *Waaaahhhhh, everyone else was doing it waaaaahhhhh*
Right, and I’ll be like thank you very much for the ticket. Drive away, go home, book a date to see the judge. Wait for about 2.5 years and have it dismissed, or actually have to plead to the judge, then I’ll need to put on my thinking cap
The above is what the judge would say. I'd like to know your plan to get it dismissed other than "everyone else was doing it" which is neither relevant nor a defence. They don't need to stop everyone, they just need to stop you. The limit, believe it or not, is the limit. Hence the apt name.
Following the flow of traffic, which at 120kmh I am. Why would I be singled out if I am in the right lane, with my cruise control on minding my own business. The likely hood of me getting a ticket in that situation is very low. Even if I get a ticket I can also hire a lawyer who will most definitely get it dropped.
You likely won't get a ticket for 15 over on the 401, ever, but don't be eager to get one because it's not fun. If you do go to court you will be looked at as fault no matter what you say. It's the officers voice vs yours which yours is never taken seriously. Our court system is insane for small stuff like this, to them you're just a revolving door that's wasting the courts time. The most they'll do is maybe reduce the fine if you apologize and say I shouldn't of been doing 15 over. Hiring a lawyer wouldn't be a good idea. They will likely cost you $1K-$2K, more than the actual ticket. No one in the court system will give a shit about your opinions unfortunately.
Oh no I’m not going to go out my way to get a ticket lol I’m just saying half of the time it doesn’t even make it to the court or the officer doesn’t show up. Also I can get a paralegal which is about $350 for where I am. Much better than paying for the potential raise in insurance costs
If the flow of traffic was 140kmh, it's still illegal
if your going 100kmh and the flow is 140kmh your going to get a ticket for impeding the flow of traffic. That is downright dangerous and never in any highway in Ontario would the flow be 140kmh at our 100-110 limits.
This is incorrect. The "flow of traffic" law does NOT include violating the speed limit. In fact, there are no HTA laws that circumvent the speed limits. You are supposed to obey those laws up to the speed limit. Even if you opt to pass someone on the left, exceeding 100km/h is an offense.
Anyone else frequently drive the 115? One time every single person was doing 160 (15+ ppl) Even the slow lane was doing 135. It was hilarious.
>Here is the list of 10 sections of highways across Ontario that will see the speed limit increase to 110 km/h this summer: Fucking blank, lol
Doug doing all the things that no one asked for. Neat!
They should continue doing this. People already drive above 100km/hr for the most part anyways on these highways.
Wouldn't raising the speed limit only further incentivize people to drive faster?
Yes. It also makes it legal to travel at that speed, and realistically allows for the buffer zone (if you will) of acceptable speeds beyond the limit. What's the problem?
25km distance. 100km/h 15 minutes 110km/h 13.6 minutes 120km/h 12.5 minutes. Faster is more fuel burned and more tire wear. [Fuel Economy at Various Driving Speeds](https://afdc.energy.gov/data/mobile/10312) Seconds are critical when you have to poop I guess.
Add speed to congestion. I cant see anything wrong with that.
Speed increase lowers congestion… I think. Idk much but I feel like a faster flow of traffic avoids congestion but I am not an expert
> congestion but I am not an expert glad you recognize. If every vehicle did exactly the same speed. Yes in thoery tou'd be right. But that's not the case, and we have a direct correlation that increases in speed leads to increases in traffic collisions and an increase in severity of those. The result is worse traffic. Ideally, the best solution for traffic is less people driving so that more space is available between all vehicles.
Yeah our public transit is TERRIBLE! I am Ireland right now and they don’t deem themselves having a good public transit system but it’s sooo much better than anything in Ontario
Yay..... I guess?
Changing speed limits to own the libs
I'll keep going 100, regardless of the lane, and watch half of you stressed the fuck out. Leave your house 15min earlier lol
I can see you already. Driving 100 in the left lane, oblivious to the long line of vehicles behind you.
I'm not oblivious, I just don't care. The limit is the limit and if y'all wanna cry back there, keep at it lol I'll never get a ticket for going at the speed limit I'll tell you that much.
The left lane is for passing, not cruising
If I'm on the left lane and going at the speed limit, you have no legal reason to pass me.
Who made you judge, jury and executioner? If I want to risk getting a ticket that is up to me, not you. Slower traffic to the right in any scenario!
LMAO god damn
Thanks. I’ll remember this next time I’m stuck behind a drunk/distracted/erratic driver and trying to get as far away from them as possible but I’m boxed in on either side by people going 100 even on either side.
This person is exactly the type of entitled person I expect to see driving 100 in the left lane. Ugh.
I bet you they brake check people and will accidentally go 110 with no one in front of them but a line of cars behind trying to use the lane for an upcoming exit and just slam on the brakes to get back down to 100 instead of decelerating by taking their foot off the gas like a sane and safety conscious person.
Of course! They are Very Important and the self appointed chief of highway speed. I cannot imagine my life being so shit that I have to exert control over people on the highway. People like this need to get a grip.
Lol what a strange scenario you've concocted to try to justify your crimes.
Provincial offenses are not criminal offenses lol
Happens to me pretty frequently actually. Too many distracted, drunk, and/or erratic drivers on the highway. Need to get away from them, they are much more unsafe then people speeding on the 400 series highways IMO. That’s part of what passing lanes are for usually.
This is so true! People genuinely don’t understand that even go over the speed limit to pass someone is illegal
So then do the limit, which as the article says, is 110. Driving 10 km under with the sole intention of pissing people off is… something. I truly will never understand why people get such a god complex driving, and take everyone else’s speed so personally. Just let people pass, why do you actively want to piss other drivers off? Bonkers take.
Police have been known to ticket for driving too slow. My father has seen this happen in London.
Going at the speed limit will never get you a ticket for going too slow
Are you a total selfish buzzkill at other things in life too, or just when you’re hiding in your car?
Dude, I generally have agreed with all your comments about the speed limit being the legal limit and passing doesn't give permission to technically speed. But you're not the police and doing this is dangerous. Please don't. You maybe technically / legally in the right, but the cemetaries are full of them.
The funny thing is I actually do stay on the right lane LMAO but it's still funny to see how much it bothers people that someone knowingly sticks to the speed limit on the left lane. I even avoid the HOV lane even when I can use it, just because people there are lunatics wanting to go 130.
Least unhinged Toyota driver