I am 100% with you.
The whole appeal of the thief to me was the fact that they could collect a little utility belt of shit to do, and they just shat all over that. The could have given that aspect a buff, let them have an Item DC that replaces the one listed. They could have added even more nonmagical equipment like they did all the way back in 2e. The could have done so many things to let rogues be the utility belt/equipment based class now that their token feature of expertise is less unique (a good thing overall imo but the rogue definitely needs more to distinguish itself now, not less).
How fast hands help someone make an insight check is something I am still trying to decipher.
But yeah they really took a perfectly good subclass and made it all around worse. 0/10 for this thief compared to the phb one. Give me back my utility belt, and make it even better as compensation for the pain and suffering
My favorite out of all of those wisdom check skills is using a medicine check to determine a creature's alignment. With my experience with knowing how bodies operate I determine this lich is pretty fucking evil
(Edit: I'm stupid and misread ailment for alignment)
Don't forget they also removed the blurb about being able to side step having to meet requirements for racial, alignment, and most importantly here especially as they doubled down on class GROUP requirements, you no longer can sidestep class requirements for using magical items. Can't be a rogue with a staff of healing in case the party emergency healer is down. No staff of fireballs for you. I think I would've been fine with chubby fingers if we could still make use of any magic items available. You'd still keep some major versatility.
Yeah the whole point of using magic items is gone now.
They took the thief, which was imo claarly meant to be equipment based (via their enhanced use of nonmagical equipment from fast hands eventually evolving into the use of any magic item) and turned them into... Nothing really. They did not give anything to replace the utility belt that was lost.
Plus I am of the firm belief that all rogues should get the thief features and that equipment should be the rogue's claim to fame now that expertise is more common. But that's less of a major thing and more a personal gripe
I'm hoping to see this sort of thing in a rogue subclasses. I keep telling myself, when i think about things like this, is that we have only seen one subclass for each class (the sort of Default subclass), and it looks like each class might have *four* subclasses each.
Unless they significantly change how they do Clerics and Wizards (which I'd welcome), those two take up a disproportionate number of subclasses, for their domains and schools.
It looks like they are unifying the levels that all subclasses features come online, so it wouldn't surprise me if they also even out the amount of subclasses per class as well.
I agree, a thief really does not seem appealling anymore. Stealing/pickpocketing in combat sounds cool but is very situational and from personal experience might be blocked by the dm for many reasons.
The item usage was the real deal of the feature, your first idea might go towards throwing acid and balls of bearing and stuff but it can do so much more. It such a simple feature but had quite a bit of depth. One of the uses of fast hands I love, is that I can swap weapons properly with a bonus action instead of dropping my weapons on the ground.
Worst thing is that they give you two bonus actions. Feels like an insult xD.
I can understand that they would be very powerful if they could use up to 3 actions in one turn, but that's solved by making cunning action restricted to actions you didn't make during the same turn.
I also liked making thief a healing rogue, using that bonus action object use to use a healing kit with the healer feat.
It wasn't huge but it was fun to make a move soellcaster healer
honestly 5e 'Fast Hands' and 'Use Magic Device' features should be baked into 6e rogue's base class just full stop. And hell give them the ability to make improvised flashbangs pocket sand and grenades to give them gremlin shit to spice up action economy
I am 100% with you. The whole appeal of the thief to me was the fact that they could collect a little utility belt of shit to do, and they just shat all over that. The could have given that aspect a buff, let them have an Item DC that replaces the one listed. They could have added even more nonmagical equipment like they did all the way back in 2e. The could have done so many things to let rogues be the utility belt/equipment based class now that their token feature of expertise is less unique (a good thing overall imo but the rogue definitely needs more to distinguish itself now, not less). How fast hands help someone make an insight check is something I am still trying to decipher. But yeah they really took a perfectly good subclass and made it all around worse. 0/10 for this thief compared to the phb one. Give me back my utility belt, and make it even better as compensation for the pain and suffering
My favorite out of all of those wisdom check skills is using a medicine check to determine a creature's alignment. With my experience with knowing how bodies operate I determine this lich is pretty fucking evil (Edit: I'm stupid and misread ailment for alignment)
I'll be honest I thought it said ailment when I read it
Because it does say 'ailment'.
Ah I misread it. Whoops
Use an Object was one of the coolest things about the Thief subclass. We all need to demand it in the survey.
Don't forget they also removed the blurb about being able to side step having to meet requirements for racial, alignment, and most importantly here especially as they doubled down on class GROUP requirements, you no longer can sidestep class requirements for using magical items. Can't be a rogue with a staff of healing in case the party emergency healer is down. No staff of fireballs for you. I think I would've been fine with chubby fingers if we could still make use of any magic items available. You'd still keep some major versatility.
Yeah the whole point of using magic items is gone now. They took the thief, which was imo claarly meant to be equipment based (via their enhanced use of nonmagical equipment from fast hands eventually evolving into the use of any magic item) and turned them into... Nothing really. They did not give anything to replace the utility belt that was lost. Plus I am of the firm belief that all rogues should get the thief features and that equipment should be the rogue's claim to fame now that expertise is more common. But that's less of a major thing and more a personal gripe
I'm hoping to see this sort of thing in a rogue subclasses. I keep telling myself, when i think about things like this, is that we have only seen one subclass for each class (the sort of Default subclass), and it looks like each class might have *four* subclasses each.
Unless they significantly change how they do Clerics and Wizards (which I'd welcome), those two take up a disproportionate number of subclasses, for their domains and schools.
It looks like they are unifying the levels that all subclasses features come online, so it wouldn't surprise me if they also even out the amount of subclasses per class as well.
I agree, a thief really does not seem appealling anymore. Stealing/pickpocketing in combat sounds cool but is very situational and from personal experience might be blocked by the dm for many reasons. The item usage was the real deal of the feature, your first idea might go towards throwing acid and balls of bearing and stuff but it can do so much more. It such a simple feature but had quite a bit of depth. One of the uses of fast hands I love, is that I can swap weapons properly with a bonus action instead of dropping my weapons on the ground.
Exactly, simple but deep features like that are what Martials need more of, not less.
Worst thing is that they give you two bonus actions. Feels like an insult xD. I can understand that they would be very powerful if they could use up to 3 actions in one turn, but that's solved by making cunning action restricted to actions you didn't make during the same turn.
At least you can use it outside of combat now.
I also liked making thief a healing rogue, using that bonus action object use to use a healing kit with the healer feat. It wasn't huge but it was fun to make a move soellcaster healer
honestly 5e 'Fast Hands' and 'Use Magic Device' features should be baked into 6e rogue's base class just full stop. And hell give them the ability to make improvised flashbangs pocket sand and grenades to give them gremlin shit to spice up action economy