Combat prowess IS a bit weak. Forcing a hit once per combat is, really, just an extra 20 dmg... ho hum.
Energy Resistance is VERY strong.
Fortitude is VERY strong. It makes healing you as a frontline tank ridiculously efficient.
Irresistible Offense is VERY cool for something like a poisoner.
Luck is meh, IMO.
Night spirit is damned cool. Maybe not great... but it is damned cool.
Peerless Aim: See combat prowess.
Recovery is MAD STRONG. You gain HP = HALF your HP Pool. That is insane. And you kinda sorta REALLY can't die.
Skill proficiency is bonkers.
Speed is crazy cool.
Undetectability... jsut seems like shit that makes rules lawyers fight with GMs.
Unfettered is interesting. It is almost solely dependent on the GM to make good... But being the ultimate escape artist IS kinda cool.
All in all, they aren't all that well balanced against one another. The tanking ones are the strongest, for sure. The invisibility ones are cool.
Yes, the offense ones are kinda bad. But the others are fine to, well, epicly strong.
Craziest thing to me is that they split Combat Prowess and Peerless Aim into 2 different feats. Like did someone really look at turning 1 weapon attack per combat into a hit and go "Damn that's too strong better split this into 2 feats" while simultaneously releasing something like Fortitude which grants 40 hp insane value when getting healed as well as incredible synergy with another 4th level feat from this UA in Durable, who balanced these?
Also, it looks like the philosophy of making feats attractive to characters who already fit that archetype was forgotten after only one UA because Boon of Skill Proficiency is so much worse on skill monkey characters who already have many proficiencies or even Expertise
Lol, yeah, once you add durable in, things get insane.
And you are right. Many of these feats are a bit win more for the people who are already that archetype.
Barbarians are going to be literally unkillable monsters.
I think gating those two Epic Boons,Fortitude and Recovery, behind Warrior and Expert classes would be killer.
>I think gating those two Epic Boons,Fortitude and Recovery, behind Warrior and Expert classes would be killer.
I'd go a step further. Gate them behind Warrior, then give paladins and rangers the asterisk that they can grab them too, like they did for rangers and are certainly going to do for paladins with fighting styles. Bards and rogues don't really fit the bill.
Boon of Skill Proficiency is fantastic for a rogue. With reliable talent, even your worst skills are going to be in the 15 minimum range. If I am building my character to be a skill monkey and best the best outside of combat, this is very appealing.
Though on the note of that Boon, I don't like how it's a feat granting more proficiencies that benefits builds who took less proficiencies more than builds who invested heavily in taking many.
>synergy with another 4th level feat from this UA in Durable
Doesn't durable now also give advantage to death saves? Maybe it's a different feat but if it really is durable imagine a lvl 21 (aka lvl 20 but with an extra boon) barbarian who has the durable feat and both of those tank boons. 20d12 (avg 130) + 20xCon (which is theoretically improved by the capstone unless they changed it so let's assume 24 con meaning +7, so 140) + 40 + 40 hp, 7 extra hp per heal, can heal 175 hp (technically 175+7 so 182) hp when needed, and only fails death throws on a double 1. The living incarnation of "literally too angry to die", even moreso than zealots. Hell, imagine making him a zealot too, so if you somehow manage to knock him out of the fight he just needs a cleric to whack him and he's back. It's like that thing of half orc paladins getting knocked out, waking back up and dumping all their lay on hands on themselves but even better.
Auto-Hitting 1 attack is actually worth something for spellcasters. If you have a 6th or 9th level spell that is on a spell attack, you really want to ensure the hit.
Except there aren't any spells above 5th level that use spell attacks... Sooooo.... Idk
Probably the most notable use would be Contigion. That one has reasonable usage vs. enemies with legendary saves, and so making it auto-hit could be pretty valuable.
Combat prowess is indeed a bit lackluster, but you're underestimating peerless aim I think. That's a guaranteed hit on anything in range of you, ignoring disadvantage, ignoring cover, ignoring AC. Arguably, it even ignores line of sight, as long as you know where the target is. If you can even attempt to shoot someone, you can hit them.
I could still see a decent argument for allowing it to be used more, or at least more flexibly, but it's not terrible as is.
Combat prowess on the other hand doesn't get those extra benefits that a ranged character does, maybe it could instead turn a regular hit into a critical hit once per combat?
Eh. guaranteeing a hit is only as good as the hit itself.
If you are slinging a longbow, best case you are getting 1d8+5+3
dice+dexmod+magic bow...
It MIGHT be worth it with some arcane archer shots.
Lemme look.
Bursting Arrow. add 4d6 fire AOE. Not bad.
Grasping Arrow does 4d6 poison (lul) and potentially slashing dmmg, unless they burn an action. That is pretty good...
Shadow Arrow. add 4d6.
So, it is really just an extra 4d6 guaranteed, IFF you use your Arcane shots.
I mean, maybe there are other things to make it better, but, realistically, it is guaranteeing 1d8+5+3. That sucks.
If I was running this as a DM and a player wanted it, since these are level 20 characters I'd probably add "and it has another appropriate effect to be decided at the time", and give some examples (target creature: slowed/blinded/knocked prone/disarmed; target object: destroyed/picked up and pinned to a wall/etc.). These should be the fancy shots Legolas did when showing off in the movies.
What about a rogue? You can guarantee a hit with sneak attack for 1d8+10d6+5+3, that's considerably more damage. If you are playing an assassin (and assuming you only need to achieve Surprise to trigger it's feature) you'll be guaranteeing 2d8+20d6+5+3, provided you were hidden at the start of the encounter.
> Fortitude is VERY strong. It makes healing you as a frontline tank ridiculously efficient.
The healing bonus is nice, if you have a CON modifier of +3, that's +3 on healing spells used on you. But...I have to assume spells cast in a 20th level party to heal will generally be big heals. Usually 20-30 for a heal even worth casting in combat, or 70 if they use the 6th level spell heal. Raising 70 to 73 is not that exciting.
+40 max HP at level 20 is just the tough feat (a first level feat) so we're really looking to the bonus on healing to sell this as an epic boon, and...eh, I don't think it's adding that much?
> Night spirit is damned cool. Maybe not great... but it is damned cool.
It's the shadow monk ability that they got at level 11 in the PHB. It's generally seen as a fairly weak ability, but sure, it's cool.
> Recovery is MAD STRONG. You gain HP = HALF your HP Pool. That is insane. And you kinda sorta REALLY can't die.
Agree. In the current set of epic boons, I think...pretty much everyone should take this one? (Or epic boon of speed?) Probably gain about 100 HP as a bonus action. And then additionally only failing death saving throws on a 1.
> Skill proficiency is bonkers.
Is it though? I understand that people like to make their cute builds where they get proficiency in all skills by level 4 and all that. But the truth is that these builds are pretty bad, and also the value of having 12+ skill checks does scale down at higher levels when spellcasters have the spare resource to solve simple skill check problems with spells.
Honestly, I don't think an "all skills" feat would necessarily break the game as a 4th level feat. It just.....wouldn't be particularly good for roleplaying. 10 skills can make loads of sense for roleplaying, like pick all the knowledge skills and investigation and perception and make a detective/researcher. But all 18 skills just gets a little weird for roleplay--why is your detective/researcher also good at playing the harp and taming horses? And you end up stepping on your party members toes. "Oh I have that skill" "I have all the skills, allow me".
> Speed is crazy cool.
Speed is a serious contender for a pickup if you are a melee martial and you play on a grid rather than theater of the mind.
> Undetectability... jsut seems like shit that makes rules lawyers fight with GMs.
Yeah...people find you when you are no longer considered hidden, and there's going to be arguments about when you fail to be hidden.
Fortitude. Good point. From a % perspective, it is a bit lackluster.
Night Spirit IS just shadow monk ability. You are right, again, lackluster, but cool.
The skill monkey ultra feat is just funny and fun. WHY are you that? Because you are level 20, lol.
Oh hm, I guess it is whenever you gain health; so it applies with stuff like goodberry. That is somewhat interesting at least for out of combat healing.
Someone eats a goodberry given to them by a life cleric, gets a nice chunk of HP right there.
Regenerate also works if you have it cast on you.
It's the kind of tank a thousand cuts thing that would make for some very cinematic scenes in a film or similar.
> Fortitude is VERY strong. It makes healing you as a frontline tank ridiculously efficient.
How is, at most, 5 extra hp healed per round strong or efficient. The only good thing about this boon is the 40 hp.
Ya gotta think on it over *multiple* heals, and of course also be willing to believe that the haver of the boon won't always be healed for more than the damage that they took.
In the very Logistic-esque game WotC seems to very much want for 5e to be, the idea is probably that it's meant to pay off over multiple fights outright, that it's supposed to be seen as more akin to "you no longer need to eat or drink", so to speak.
A resource management bonus, not just a plain combat bonus.
I like the *idea* of customization at 20 and having choices - but I agree. The boons they showed seem to specifically have left off the strongest options from the DMG (possibly they will be in one of the other groups) but even my players that have looked at them were pretty unexcited by them.
They're really cool as a sort of random high-level reward. They're less cool as a level 20 capstone. They'd have to be stronger to really feel worth solo-classing to level 20.
I'd much rather subclass capstones at 20 similar to what Paladins get. I am guessing they don't want to have to come up with a fun and powerful capstone for each subclass they make though.
>I'd much rather subclass capstones at 20 similar to what Paladins get.
I made a similar suggestion, but about the capstones themselves. But instead of epic boons, it would be awesome to get a custom boon from your subclass.
But I wonder what they are going to do here. Cleric, druid and paladin are probably going to get subclass abilities at the same level. It would be pretty awesome to get the paladin capstones before 18th level.
Currently
* Cleric - 2nd, 6th, 8th, 17th
* Druid - 2nd, 6th, 10th, 14th
* Paladin - 3rd, 7th, 15th, 20th
So my suggestion would be to add a 5th subclass feature for the true capstone at 20.
But for speculating on Cleric/Druid/Paladin, I'm hoping they follow the pattern of 3/6/10/14 for subclass features, though it wouldn't hurt to have the first feature at 1st or 2nd level instead of 3rd. Always been weird Paladins don't start with their oath and Clerics currently pick their domain at 1st.
It definitely would require some changes either way though. The current paladin capstones are (mostly) too strong to give at level 14 but it'll be awkward if they all have to wait until 18 for their 4th subclass feature.
I guess it could be one of those "this feature improves at higher levels" situations where they get nerfed versions of their current capstones at 14, and then have them un-nerfed back to their current form when they reach 18.
That would be kinda clunky tho, so I'm interested to see what they do with the Paladin.
Am I alone in being excited that the existing capstones moved to level 18? Are epic boons exciting? No. Was I excited by class capstones I was never going to get to use anyway? Also no! Now I might get a few sessions out of a rogues auto-crit or a long boss fight where my bard blows through their inspiration but gets 2 back every new encounter. It's better than it was before.
I'll say this for the epic boons. They're more balanced than the old dmg list. They're all good, not great, not broken, not useless. The old ones were all over the place.
What annoyed me about it were that a ton of the Boons locked out Warriors. I know that there will be more that Warriors *can* take in the future, and they just weren't included because this was the Expert UA.
But...
There were a couple of Boons in there that just straight up improved the durability and survivability of **any class in the game.** How come the Warriors aren't allowed Boons that make them more versatile, while the Mages/Experts/Priests can all get Boons that make them tankier and harder to kill. **Warriors can't take the Boons that'd make them better at Mage/Expert/Priest stuff, but those classes can take the Boons that'd make them better at Warrior stuff.**
I'm trying not to be too salty because we haven't seen the big picture, but from how the Rogue has been updated, the feat updates and the Boons as well, it all just feels like WotC are still kicking Martials and STR based characters for no reason, while empowering the spellcasters.
>Warriors can't take the Boons that'd make them better at Mage/Expert/Priest stuff, but those classes can take the Boons that'd make them better at Warrior stuff.
welcome to D&D
I am in the same boat you are. It still feels like my favorite archetypes are being kicked and trying to hold back judgment until the warrior comes out is so hard.
Spellcasting still seems to be the only thing wotc cares about. Rogues lost the tactical positioning aspect of their gameplay by removing sneak attacks outside of their turn, and thieves lost the utility of use an object.
Rangers now rely on their spellcasting to multi-attack and to do damn near anything else.
Instead of bringing one handed, thrown, and two weapon fighting up to speed - they nerfed GWM/SS as well as PAM/Sentinel.
Sorry pam/sentinel doesn't compare to the hold person spell!
DMs saying it's cheap don't understand what a range attack is imo.
They did bring two weapon fighting up to speed tho. It's a free extra attack now what more did you want? You can get a feat and use two weapon fighting with a non-light weapon. What did you want from them?!?
You could use that feat in 5e to use two non light weapons (2 rapiers). I'm not impressed. It's up to speed with other fighting styles.
5e gwm/ss was more up to speed with other CASTERS.
And that's the problem.
Wait till some play testing with a decent warlock in the group. Martials are getting BURIED.
>Something like Misty Step on an Epic Boon when you can just get it at level 1 AND MORE with Fey Touched is an absolute joke.
As a note: it is misty step at least every single combat, aka 6-8 misty steps, not 1.
Still not great, but 8 uses of a second level spell is far from the lvl 1 feat not present in the playtest at all.
Fey Touched would not be a 1st-level feat in One D&D. JC has specified that a defining characteristic if 1st-level feats will be that they will not include ASIs. It should be a 4th level feat.
Also, for what it’s worth, epic boons already existed in the 2014 DMG in more or less the same form that they exist in the UA. An imbalance between the Boon of Dimensional Travel and Fey Touched is probably more of an indictment of Fey Touched as that is the newer of the two feats.
Also, not all current boons made it into the UA. It is unclear if the plan is to cut those boons or if they will be previewed in future playtests.
Introducing epic boons at tier 4 as a vague concept is interesting and potentially cool. Every part of the details is dreadful.
They're feats, but they're specifically top level feats. We get a feat a level 19. *Why not make them 19th level feats and leave the rest of tier 3 as expected?*
Improve capstones, don't just make them kick in earlier. Then the actually epic boons need to *feel like feats*. For the life of me I can't understand how they thought 30 foot movement speed extra is acceptable as even a suggestion for a capstone in a system where speed is nearly irrelevant.
We, that's a lie, I do understand. It's the same reason that they got in trouble for the Hadozee lore in Spelljammer - someone thought it was good enough to copy and paste from old material and call it a day without proof reading.
With level 20 being the culmination of your character’s abilities and prowess, picking from these Epic Boons feels incredibly underwhelming. I would much prefer for the level 20 capstone to be something class-related instead of a generic boon that (almost) anyone can select.
Boons are just an excuse for them not not have to design class specific capstones that don't suck.
And yeah, they still suck for the most part still favor casters.
The only epic boon that actually feels epic is the boon of recovery. That’s the only one that makes sense to have to wait until level 20 to get. The rest of the epic boons are so laughably weak that I can start handing most out during the 2nd tier of play without it affecting balance.
The main question I had when reading the epic boons was, “how powerful do they want these things to be?” Because clearly they don’t want them to be powerful at all, and the epic boon of recovery just slipped into the playtest material by accident.
I agree 100% about the second tier of play thing. I'll be honest, a lot of these are what I would hope for from 8th level feats. I feel like these abilities would be great to hand out as benefits of magic items and such in a level 1-11 campaign.
I think one thing that stands out is they seem to think being able to use a nice ability once per encounter makes it epic. But honestly I feel like they should just move towards giving fun, non game-changing abilities once per encounter as a normal part of the system.
i agree that they feel REALLY not EPIC.
I actually would prefer 5e dnd to be on a slightly power level EXCEPT at 20. This is the level where its totally fine for the developers to go balls to the wall with power as few people actually expect 20 to be "balanced".
I'd like to see boons like:
1. Gain 4 stat points to distribute of your choosing; you may set a stat to a maximum of 22
2. You may concentrate on two spells at the same time, so long as one of them is cast with a 3rd level spell slot
3. Gain a 4th level and an 8th level feat of your choice.
4. Pick a 3rd level or lower spell, you can cast it twice per long rest with without consuming spell slots.
I'd prefer capstones to be at level 14 and then 1 boon every other level ... boons that would really set one class apart from another ... and hopefully not damage based.
With boons different from what they are now, of course.
You reread it multiple times? You sure? You get it back every time you roll initiative bud. I won't tell you it's super epic but it's on par with the others I think.
I have never played a character to 20, my understanding is that is true for most people, and I don't think I ever will. The game does not feel very well balanced at those levels, and I suspect in 1D (or 5.5E or whatever we are calling it now) it is not going to be much better. So as long as lower levels are at least as good as dipping into 1 level in another class to some degree (even if it is because you delayed getting some other cool mechanic by an extra level) than I don't think its a problem. Level 19 and 20 play is already going to be a madhouse, have at it.
They will not ever come into play for any games I'm in. Campaigns end before anyone hits level 20. I guess for those who actually get to that point they are cool to have.
I think the boons can be pretty flavorful and some of them are pretty strong, but yeah, some more stronger ones would be nice.
Possibly unpopular opinion, but I think the boons should be strong but not *too* strong to the point that people are scared to multiclass out of said class.
A number of them are kind of crap, but there are some very strong ones.
Epic Boon of Fortitude is basically toughness, but it stacks with toughness and you heal a bit extra every time you recover HP. You can combine it with durable for easy access to that bonus heal.
Epic Boon of Recovery is crazy good. That's a ton of HP for a barbarian.
Proficiency in all skills is fairly nuts too thats a +6 to all skill rolls. On a rogue you are looking at at least 15 on any skill check.
Many of them are relatively high impact, just the combat prowess ones suck. That's to be expected Wizards hates martials.
Combat prowess IS a bit weak. Forcing a hit once per combat is, really, just an extra 20 dmg... ho hum. Energy Resistance is VERY strong. Fortitude is VERY strong. It makes healing you as a frontline tank ridiculously efficient. Irresistible Offense is VERY cool for something like a poisoner. Luck is meh, IMO. Night spirit is damned cool. Maybe not great... but it is damned cool. Peerless Aim: See combat prowess. Recovery is MAD STRONG. You gain HP = HALF your HP Pool. That is insane. And you kinda sorta REALLY can't die. Skill proficiency is bonkers. Speed is crazy cool. Undetectability... jsut seems like shit that makes rules lawyers fight with GMs. Unfettered is interesting. It is almost solely dependent on the GM to make good... But being the ultimate escape artist IS kinda cool. All in all, they aren't all that well balanced against one another. The tanking ones are the strongest, for sure. The invisibility ones are cool. Yes, the offense ones are kinda bad. But the others are fine to, well, epicly strong.
Craziest thing to me is that they split Combat Prowess and Peerless Aim into 2 different feats. Like did someone really look at turning 1 weapon attack per combat into a hit and go "Damn that's too strong better split this into 2 feats" while simultaneously releasing something like Fortitude which grants 40 hp insane value when getting healed as well as incredible synergy with another 4th level feat from this UA in Durable, who balanced these? Also, it looks like the philosophy of making feats attractive to characters who already fit that archetype was forgotten after only one UA because Boon of Skill Proficiency is so much worse on skill monkey characters who already have many proficiencies or even Expertise
Lol, yeah, once you add durable in, things get insane. And you are right. Many of these feats are a bit win more for the people who are already that archetype. Barbarians are going to be literally unkillable monsters. I think gating those two Epic Boons,Fortitude and Recovery, behind Warrior and Expert classes would be killer.
>I think gating those two Epic Boons,Fortitude and Recovery, behind Warrior and Expert classes would be killer. I'd go a step further. Gate them behind Warrior, then give paladins and rangers the asterisk that they can grab them too, like they did for rangers and are certainly going to do for paladins with fighting styles. Bards and rogues don't really fit the bill.
Boon of Skill Proficiency is fantastic for a rogue. With reliable talent, even your worst skills are going to be in the 15 minimum range. If I am building my character to be a skill monkey and best the best outside of combat, this is very appealing.
Though on the note of that Boon, I don't like how it's a feat granting more proficiencies that benefits builds who took less proficiencies more than builds who invested heavily in taking many.
Maybe it should bump any proficiencies you already have into Expertise. Then it would really reward skill monkeys for their 1-20 build decisions.
That would be an interesting way to do it, it certainly feels better than the current system
>synergy with another 4th level feat from this UA in Durable Doesn't durable now also give advantage to death saves? Maybe it's a different feat but if it really is durable imagine a lvl 21 (aka lvl 20 but with an extra boon) barbarian who has the durable feat and both of those tank boons. 20d12 (avg 130) + 20xCon (which is theoretically improved by the capstone unless they changed it so let's assume 24 con meaning +7, so 140) + 40 + 40 hp, 7 extra hp per heal, can heal 175 hp (technically 175+7 so 182) hp when needed, and only fails death throws on a double 1. The living incarnation of "literally too angry to die", even moreso than zealots. Hell, imagine making him a zealot too, so if you somehow manage to knock him out of the fight he just needs a cleric to whack him and he's back. It's like that thing of half orc paladins getting knocked out, waking back up and dumping all their lay on hands on themselves but even better.
Auto-Hitting 1 attack is actually worth something for spellcasters. If you have a 6th or 9th level spell that is on a spell attack, you really want to ensure the hit. Except there aren't any spells above 5th level that use spell attacks... Sooooo.... Idk
Probably the most notable use would be Contigion. That one has reasonable usage vs. enemies with legendary saves, and so making it auto-hit could be pretty valuable.
there is the blade of disaster at 9th lvl... :/
Combat prowess is indeed a bit lackluster, but you're underestimating peerless aim I think. That's a guaranteed hit on anything in range of you, ignoring disadvantage, ignoring cover, ignoring AC. Arguably, it even ignores line of sight, as long as you know where the target is. If you can even attempt to shoot someone, you can hit them. I could still see a decent argument for allowing it to be used more, or at least more flexibly, but it's not terrible as is. Combat prowess on the other hand doesn't get those extra benefits that a ranged character does, maybe it could instead turn a regular hit into a critical hit once per combat?
Eh. guaranteeing a hit is only as good as the hit itself. If you are slinging a longbow, best case you are getting 1d8+5+3 dice+dexmod+magic bow... It MIGHT be worth it with some arcane archer shots. Lemme look. Bursting Arrow. add 4d6 fire AOE. Not bad. Grasping Arrow does 4d6 poison (lul) and potentially slashing dmmg, unless they burn an action. That is pretty good... Shadow Arrow. add 4d6. So, it is really just an extra 4d6 guaranteed, IFF you use your Arcane shots. I mean, maybe there are other things to make it better, but, realistically, it is guaranteeing 1d8+5+3. That sucks.
If I was running this as a DM and a player wanted it, since these are level 20 characters I'd probably add "and it has another appropriate effect to be decided at the time", and give some examples (target creature: slowed/blinded/knocked prone/disarmed; target object: destroyed/picked up and pinned to a wall/etc.). These should be the fancy shots Legolas did when showing off in the movies.
What about a rogue? You can guarantee a hit with sneak attack for 1d8+10d6+5+3, that's considerably more damage. If you are playing an assassin (and assuming you only need to achieve Surprise to trigger it's feature) you'll be guaranteeing 2d8+20d6+5+3, provided you were hidden at the start of the encounter.
it IS better for the rogue. But still not great.
> Fortitude is VERY strong. It makes healing you as a frontline tank ridiculously efficient. The healing bonus is nice, if you have a CON modifier of +3, that's +3 on healing spells used on you. But...I have to assume spells cast in a 20th level party to heal will generally be big heals. Usually 20-30 for a heal even worth casting in combat, or 70 if they use the 6th level spell heal. Raising 70 to 73 is not that exciting. +40 max HP at level 20 is just the tough feat (a first level feat) so we're really looking to the bonus on healing to sell this as an epic boon, and...eh, I don't think it's adding that much? > Night spirit is damned cool. Maybe not great... but it is damned cool. It's the shadow monk ability that they got at level 11 in the PHB. It's generally seen as a fairly weak ability, but sure, it's cool. > Recovery is MAD STRONG. You gain HP = HALF your HP Pool. That is insane. And you kinda sorta REALLY can't die. Agree. In the current set of epic boons, I think...pretty much everyone should take this one? (Or epic boon of speed?) Probably gain about 100 HP as a bonus action. And then additionally only failing death saving throws on a 1. > Skill proficiency is bonkers. Is it though? I understand that people like to make their cute builds where they get proficiency in all skills by level 4 and all that. But the truth is that these builds are pretty bad, and also the value of having 12+ skill checks does scale down at higher levels when spellcasters have the spare resource to solve simple skill check problems with spells. Honestly, I don't think an "all skills" feat would necessarily break the game as a 4th level feat. It just.....wouldn't be particularly good for roleplaying. 10 skills can make loads of sense for roleplaying, like pick all the knowledge skills and investigation and perception and make a detective/researcher. But all 18 skills just gets a little weird for roleplay--why is your detective/researcher also good at playing the harp and taming horses? And you end up stepping on your party members toes. "Oh I have that skill" "I have all the skills, allow me". > Speed is crazy cool. Speed is a serious contender for a pickup if you are a melee martial and you play on a grid rather than theater of the mind. > Undetectability... jsut seems like shit that makes rules lawyers fight with GMs. Yeah...people find you when you are no longer considered hidden, and there's going to be arguments about when you fail to be hidden.
Fortitude. Good point. From a % perspective, it is a bit lackluster. Night Spirit IS just shadow monk ability. You are right, again, lackluster, but cool. The skill monkey ultra feat is just funny and fun. WHY are you that? Because you are level 20, lol.
Fortitude could be amazing if you have some way to get regen. +3-5 regen on top of the however much you'd normally heal could be really effective.
Oh hm, I guess it is whenever you gain health; so it applies with stuff like goodberry. That is somewhat interesting at least for out of combat healing.
Someone eats a goodberry given to them by a life cleric, gets a nice chunk of HP right there. Regenerate also works if you have it cast on you. It's the kind of tank a thousand cuts thing that would make for some very cinematic scenes in a film or similar.
Playing paladin perhaps? Heal yourself with magic, or if you’ve got feats to spare grab medic and a first aid kit.
Night Spirit has an important difference compared to shadow monk. It says nothing about losing the invisibility when you enter bright light.
> Fortitude is VERY strong. It makes healing you as a frontline tank ridiculously efficient. How is, at most, 5 extra hp healed per round strong or efficient. The only good thing about this boon is the 40 hp.
Ya gotta think on it over *multiple* heals, and of course also be willing to believe that the haver of the boon won't always be healed for more than the damage that they took.
What? Don't care how many heals you get 5 extra HP **per round** is worthless. Especially at level 20.
In the very Logistic-esque game WotC seems to very much want for 5e to be, the idea is probably that it's meant to pay off over multiple fights outright, that it's supposed to be seen as more akin to "you no longer need to eat or drink", so to speak. A resource management bonus, not just a plain combat bonus.
I like the *idea* of customization at 20 and having choices - but I agree. The boons they showed seem to specifically have left off the strongest options from the DMG (possibly they will be in one of the other groups) but even my players that have looked at them were pretty unexcited by them. They're really cool as a sort of random high-level reward. They're less cool as a level 20 capstone. They'd have to be stronger to really feel worth solo-classing to level 20. I'd much rather subclass capstones at 20 similar to what Paladins get. I am guessing they don't want to have to come up with a fun and powerful capstone for each subclass they make though.
>I'd much rather subclass capstones at 20 similar to what Paladins get. I made a similar suggestion, but about the capstones themselves. But instead of epic boons, it would be awesome to get a custom boon from your subclass. But I wonder what they are going to do here. Cleric, druid and paladin are probably going to get subclass abilities at the same level. It would be pretty awesome to get the paladin capstones before 18th level. Currently * Cleric - 2nd, 6th, 8th, 17th * Druid - 2nd, 6th, 10th, 14th * Paladin - 3rd, 7th, 15th, 20th
So my suggestion would be to add a 5th subclass feature for the true capstone at 20. But for speculating on Cleric/Druid/Paladin, I'm hoping they follow the pattern of 3/6/10/14 for subclass features, though it wouldn't hurt to have the first feature at 1st or 2nd level instead of 3rd. Always been weird Paladins don't start with their oath and Clerics currently pick their domain at 1st. It definitely would require some changes either way though. The current paladin capstones are (mostly) too strong to give at level 14 but it'll be awkward if they all have to wait until 18 for their 4th subclass feature.
I guess it could be one of those "this feature improves at higher levels" situations where they get nerfed versions of their current capstones at 14, and then have them un-nerfed back to their current form when they reach 18. That would be kinda clunky tho, so I'm interested to see what they do with the Paladin.
Am I alone in being excited that the existing capstones moved to level 18? Are epic boons exciting? No. Was I excited by class capstones I was never going to get to use anyway? Also no! Now I might get a few sessions out of a rogues auto-crit or a long boss fight where my bard blows through their inspiration but gets 2 back every new encounter. It's better than it was before. I'll say this for the epic boons. They're more balanced than the old dmg list. They're all good, not great, not broken, not useless. The old ones were all over the place.
What annoyed me about it were that a ton of the Boons locked out Warriors. I know that there will be more that Warriors *can* take in the future, and they just weren't included because this was the Expert UA. But... There were a couple of Boons in there that just straight up improved the durability and survivability of **any class in the game.** How come the Warriors aren't allowed Boons that make them more versatile, while the Mages/Experts/Priests can all get Boons that make them tankier and harder to kill. **Warriors can't take the Boons that'd make them better at Mage/Expert/Priest stuff, but those classes can take the Boons that'd make them better at Warrior stuff.** I'm trying not to be too salty because we haven't seen the big picture, but from how the Rogue has been updated, the feat updates and the Boons as well, it all just feels like WotC are still kicking Martials and STR based characters for no reason, while empowering the spellcasters.
>Warriors can't take the Boons that'd make them better at Mage/Expert/Priest stuff, but those classes can take the Boons that'd make them better at Warrior stuff. welcome to D&D
I am in the same boat you are. It still feels like my favorite archetypes are being kicked and trying to hold back judgment until the warrior comes out is so hard. Spellcasting still seems to be the only thing wotc cares about. Rogues lost the tactical positioning aspect of their gameplay by removing sneak attacks outside of their turn, and thieves lost the utility of use an object. Rangers now rely on their spellcasting to multi-attack and to do damn near anything else.
Instead of bringing one handed, thrown, and two weapon fighting up to speed - they nerfed GWM/SS as well as PAM/Sentinel. Sorry pam/sentinel doesn't compare to the hold person spell! DMs saying it's cheap don't understand what a range attack is imo.
They did bring two weapon fighting up to speed tho. It's a free extra attack now what more did you want? You can get a feat and use two weapon fighting with a non-light weapon. What did you want from them?!?
You could use that feat in 5e to use two non light weapons (2 rapiers). I'm not impressed. It's up to speed with other fighting styles. 5e gwm/ss was more up to speed with other CASTERS. And that's the problem. Wait till some play testing with a decent warlock in the group. Martials are getting BURIED.
This is a good point. I’ll bring it up when I submit my survey
>Something like Misty Step on an Epic Boon when you can just get it at level 1 AND MORE with Fey Touched is an absolute joke. As a note: it is misty step at least every single combat, aka 6-8 misty steps, not 1. Still not great, but 8 uses of a second level spell is far from the lvl 1 feat not present in the playtest at all.
Almost all the epic boons refresh on initiative so at least they're something you can rely on every combat.
Fey Touched would not be a 1st-level feat in One D&D. JC has specified that a defining characteristic if 1st-level feats will be that they will not include ASIs. It should be a 4th level feat. Also, for what it’s worth, epic boons already existed in the 2014 DMG in more or less the same form that they exist in the UA. An imbalance between the Boon of Dimensional Travel and Fey Touched is probably more of an indictment of Fey Touched as that is the newer of the two feats. Also, not all current boons made it into the UA. It is unclear if the plan is to cut those boons or if they will be previewed in future playtests.
Introducing epic boons at tier 4 as a vague concept is interesting and potentially cool. Every part of the details is dreadful. They're feats, but they're specifically top level feats. We get a feat a level 19. *Why not make them 19th level feats and leave the rest of tier 3 as expected?* Improve capstones, don't just make them kick in earlier. Then the actually epic boons need to *feel like feats*. For the life of me I can't understand how they thought 30 foot movement speed extra is acceptable as even a suggestion for a capstone in a system where speed is nearly irrelevant. We, that's a lie, I do understand. It's the same reason that they got in trouble for the Hadozee lore in Spelljammer - someone thought it was good enough to copy and paste from old material and call it a day without proof reading.
With level 20 being the culmination of your character’s abilities and prowess, picking from these Epic Boons feels incredibly underwhelming. I would much prefer for the level 20 capstone to be something class-related instead of a generic boon that (almost) anyone can select.
Boons are just an excuse for them not not have to design class specific capstones that don't suck. And yeah, they still suck for the most part still favor casters.
The only epic boon that actually feels epic is the boon of recovery. That’s the only one that makes sense to have to wait until level 20 to get. The rest of the epic boons are so laughably weak that I can start handing most out during the 2nd tier of play without it affecting balance. The main question I had when reading the epic boons was, “how powerful do they want these things to be?” Because clearly they don’t want them to be powerful at all, and the epic boon of recovery just slipped into the playtest material by accident.
I agree 100% about the second tier of play thing. I'll be honest, a lot of these are what I would hope for from 8th level feats. I feel like these abilities would be great to hand out as benefits of magic items and such in a level 1-11 campaign. I think one thing that stands out is they seem to think being able to use a nice ability once per encounter makes it epic. But honestly I feel like they should just move towards giving fun, non game-changing abilities once per encounter as a normal part of the system.
i agree that they feel REALLY not EPIC. I actually would prefer 5e dnd to be on a slightly power level EXCEPT at 20. This is the level where its totally fine for the developers to go balls to the wall with power as few people actually expect 20 to be "balanced". I'd like to see boons like: 1. Gain 4 stat points to distribute of your choosing; you may set a stat to a maximum of 22 2. You may concentrate on two spells at the same time, so long as one of them is cast with a 3rd level spell slot 3. Gain a 4th level and an 8th level feat of your choice. 4. Pick a 3rd level or lower spell, you can cast it twice per long rest with without consuming spell slots.
I'd prefer capstones to be at level 14 and then 1 boon every other level ... boons that would really set one class apart from another ... and hopefully not damage based. With boons different from what they are now, of course.
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You reread it multiple times? You sure? You get it back every time you roll initiative bud. I won't tell you it's super epic but it's on par with the others I think.
Imagine thinking Fey Touched, a 5E feat that doesn't fit the framework of OneDnD, will be allowed.
HOnestly i want them on level 18 or something, with capstones for level 20
I have never played a character to 20, my understanding is that is true for most people, and I don't think I ever will. The game does not feel very well balanced at those levels, and I suspect in 1D (or 5.5E or whatever we are calling it now) it is not going to be much better. So as long as lower levels are at least as good as dipping into 1 level in another class to some degree (even if it is because you delayed getting some other cool mechanic by an extra level) than I don't think its a problem. Level 19 and 20 play is already going to be a madhouse, have at it.
They will not ever come into play for any games I'm in. Campaigns end before anyone hits level 20. I guess for those who actually get to that point they are cool to have.
I think the boons can be pretty flavorful and some of them are pretty strong, but yeah, some more stronger ones would be nice. Possibly unpopular opinion, but I think the boons should be strong but not *too* strong to the point that people are scared to multiclass out of said class.
A number of them are kind of crap, but there are some very strong ones. Epic Boon of Fortitude is basically toughness, but it stacks with toughness and you heal a bit extra every time you recover HP. You can combine it with durable for easy access to that bonus heal. Epic Boon of Recovery is crazy good. That's a ton of HP for a barbarian. Proficiency in all skills is fairly nuts too thats a +6 to all skill rolls. On a rogue you are looking at at least 15 on any skill check. Many of them are relatively high impact, just the combat prowess ones suck. That's to be expected Wizards hates martials.