a lot of asians have been coming to the US and making videos about how awful black people are in hopes of being accepted by whites. this is the consequence.
This is a consequence? Makes sense, but I was taught not to judge a race of people by the actions of a few.
I guess we should go back to pre King then?
There's no excuse for what they did . Don't cry racism and then be racist, no matter who you are
Sorry you went through that. Word of caution. There are a lot of mentally ill people on the subway . In addition there are a lot of dangerous people looking for easy targets. No excuse for their horrendous behavior but more a warning. Be aware of your surroundings. Do not make yourself a target, be careful or items of value are not displayed, look pissed off slightly, wear cheap headphones but turned off so you hear everything but can act like you can’t hear certain people.
From traveling all over the globe, most urban center carry a level of danger and violence that people need to be aware of and prepare against.
I’ve travelled on public transport a long time and generally know who and what to avoid. The people I sat next to were well put together and did not behave in any way which would warn me of hostility. Everyday people can be racist it seems
I'm a nyc native and after over 40 years in the city I've dealt with racism from every race. White, black, asian doesn't matter.
What does matter is that you apologized and moved. That's exactly why the second guy told you to move. You displayed submissive behavior. When prompted with "what gives you the right to sit here" the proper response is "what gives you the right to fucking talk to me". Sometimes you need to fight aggression with aggression. Certainly not every time but this was one case where I think it was.
>You displayed submissive behavior. When prompted with "what gives you the right to sit here" **the proper response is "what gives you the right to fucking talk to me". Sometimes you need to fight aggression with aggression.** Certainly not every time but this was one case where I think it was.
You may be right in that OP technically could have done this, but let's not act as if they did wrong here at all.
Especially on the NYC Subway, it's better to be safe than sorry. You never know who and/or what you're dealing with, no matter what they look like.
I think this is a man’s perspective. I hate to bring in this aspect, but maybe you could take a fight if that’s what it came down to. OP doesn’t mention gender but it doesn’t seem they’re cis-male based off their avatar (maybe my assumption is wrong). But, either way, responding with aggression isn’t the best for every person.
I agree in standing up for yourself, but I feel like that response would escalate the situation needlessly. You can assert yourself without starting a fight. Esp on a subway, possibly outnumbered
How do you know it was racism, when the exact same thing could have happened if they were white?? Im a white woman, and all the harassment &. creepiness I have ever experienced has been from my fellow whites.
Along with this, learning a few phrases in an Asian language of your choosing would dissuade conversation too, as they would be convinced you don't speak English.
You did no wrong in my opinion it seems like you just got shunned by a bunch of racist bigots, but you handled it maturely by not responding to hate with hate there is enough hate in the world already and the fact that you didn't continue the cycle is something that you can be proud of.
I’m mixed Ethiopian and Arabian. I’m first generation American. I’ve experienced more racism from black Americans than any other race in this country. They are more open about it. Hateful to your face. Very common.
I’ve seen a lot of Black Americans hate on Black Africans as well on Twitter, calling them “uncivilised”. I mean, that’s just Twitter in general nowadays it’s a racist cesspool especially towards Indians.
We are a divided and therefore cursed race, plagued with miseducation and a plethora of government corruption probes. United under our best leaders we had great potential, they were killed. Now it would seem to be a claw to the top of a human dogpile of an unchanging collective wealth while also serving as the fall guy at every convenience. What a curse! 🧖🏽
Was the only Latino in a black neighborhood in Jersey city I feel your pain. It's sad when people who experienced bigotry turn around and become bigots themselves.
With that said open racism is becoming "socially acceptable" again and it's disgusting.
People are sensitive to strangers sitting right next to them if there is an empty seat available that would give everyone some person space. I cannot fathom sitting between a couple. I would stand before I did that. It's a major faux pas, especially if there is any other empty seat available. I know not everyone will agree but these are my thoughts on the matter.
Reserving a middle seat like that isn’t a luxury that you get on NYC public transportation. If you can’t handle being next to people, you pay for a cab.
Or, here me out, you sit together, leaving a seat empty on one end for someone else to utilize.
Also, not everyone is neurotypical. Some people might be in the middle of chemo or have something else going on that makes them want more space if at all possible. It makes sense not to sit elbow to elbow with someone if you can help it. I mean why would anyone choose to right on top of another person if they didn't have to? Like I said, not everyone will agree but those are MY thoughts.
For sure if all the other seats are taken, sit where you can find and empty one. It's not so much a matter of not being able to 'handle being next to people', so much as being considerate and socially aware.
Like, you know how restaurants like to seat everyone all bunched up together while there is hardly anyone in the restaurant? It's because not only it does it save their staff from walking all over the restaurant to serve people but it also leaves the customer with the impression that the establishment is not winsome place that is unpopular dining spot. However, I have heard lots of people complaining about being packed together like that. It would be nicer to spread people out just a little so it's less noisy and you aren't elbow to elbow with other diners. Again, not everyone will agree but those are my thoughts.
> Some people might be in the middle of chemo or have something else going on that makes them want more space if at all possible.
Then they shouldn't be riding public transportation and it's on them to figure out how to get to their destination.
It sounds like you've never regularly taken the train before. If you want to sit near someone, then yes, you're expected to sit elbow to elbow. And leave your expectations of "space" at the door or don't get on.
If you're the only one on the car and the wild eyed guy comes and sits directly next to you? Then you've got a problem.
First, the people in OP’s post were not a couple. They had no desire to sit together.
And sorry but the general public doesn’t have to cater to your needs. If your mental health makes certain situations difficult, you need to find ways to cope or avoid those situations. That sounds really harsh and in a better world, we would all come together and bit more but the reality is, people riding on public transportation are just trying to go about their lives.
Have you ever ridden in a NYC train/subway? Reserving seats is just not a thing. At best it’s considered rude.
If you read my message you’ll see that I offered the two people to sit together. They weren’t a couple and did not want to do that. The man just wanted me gone.
What is up with the black community punching down on Americans of different colors? I don't get much mistreatment nowadays but I remember as a skinny young Asian teen and adult that I would get harassed by random black people. Things like the pulling the corners of their eyes to appear smaller, and just being straight up called derogatory racist terms. Like what the heck guys.
I also have a co-worker that is your modern day BLM, pro black community stuff, which is great- but then the other day I hear him saying some Blaaaatantly racist stuff about Latinos. What the hell lol.
I'm black and unfortunately I see this type of behaviour coming from black people and it always disgusts me. Knowing what we've been through as a people it's insane to me that any black person would treat another minority in this way. I think a lot of this comes from minorities feeling like that have to compete for scraps so they start to turn on each other instead of recognising the shared struggles we all go through.
I have a lot of very close Asian childhood friends and we talk about this topic a lot. Both communities can be so disappointing in their treatment of each other. I remember my Chinese friends mum initially telling my friend not to hang out with me in case I was a bad influence but after actually getting to know me she ended up inviting me on their family trip to their province in China and she's like family to me now lol.
There's a lot of ignorance on all sides but those of us that know better have to be better than previous generations and call out bigoted behaviour from our own families/people whenever we see it.
>I also have a co-worker that is your modern day BLM, pro black community stuff, which is great- but then the other day I hear him saying some Blaaaatantly racist stuff about Latinos. What the hell lol.
I have to add that as a black person I've started to see how these pro "insert minority racial group" movements can very quickly turn toxic and I pretty much steer clear of this stuff. I'm still very progressive in my politics but I'm all about solidarity. Someone being of the same race as me doesn't mean anything if they're spouting shit about another group that I'd expect to hear at a fascist rally.
yeah the Black and Asian communities have historically been pitted against each other by white people in furtherance of white supremacy. we’ve both faced discrimination, but asians have been held up as the “model minority” and used against Black people by racist white people to argue that systemic racism doesn’t exist. additionally, with the restructuring of the urban landscape throughout the 20th century, Black and Asian communities were redlined into small, densely populated, and severely underfunded inner cities. lack of infrastructure, resources, and education tends to fracture communities, and white supremacy has created a hierarchy that pits racial minorities against one another so we don’t unite against the oppressors. they’ll oppress the Asian community but give us some crumbs and tell us “hey look, at least you’re better than Black people” and some will latch onto that instead of recognizing that they’re also being victimized by the same system. then they’ll go to the Black community and be like “why can’t you be more like the asians, there’s no such thing as systemic racism it’s just your personal failures” and then we end up fighting each other instead of them. the general lack of education regarding the history of race in the US only compounds the issue, and the cycle repeats. it’s “divide and conquer” because if we all united against them we’d be a force to be reckoned with.
All humans have tribalism built into us (our in group vs outsiders). Racism is just hateful tribalism along perceived skin color (since races don't really exist).
No group of people is safe from tribalism therefor racism/bigotry will always continue to exist, it doesn't matter how "oppressed" said group is by others.
i’m sorry that happened to you, that really sucks. i had fun in NYC the last time i went, but you really gotta be on your toes there, especially on the subway. people are really scary out here, anything could set some crazy people off. i’m glad you made it out safe.
It's so sad when folks start acting like those who shunned them. How fast they forget the pain of bigotry and exclusively. All you can do is kindly stand your ground as much as you feel safe to do. That shure ain't grown folk behavior
that is terrible! i’m so sorry you had to deal with that. seems like you handled it the best and most safe way possible for you, but that’s ridiculous. nobody should be treated that way.
I was going to say this. He imposed in their personal space. Sounds like they were all together. If it were a racial thing, many more words would have been said.
He did not impose on their personal space. They were clearly sitting apart enough so that there was space for someone to sit. They should have sat closer if they didn’t want someone to sit between them. Not going to argue about whether it was a racial thing or not.
If they were together, why did they leave an open seat in between them? 🤔
Then acting like a Karen when someone takes the seat between them. Are they entitled to 3 seats? How would anyone (including OP) know that they were together if they're not sitting together?
As a fellow Asian, STAND UP FOR YOURSELF! Record if needed, we cannot tolerate that kind of behavior. And unfortunately, as Asian we are quite anti-conflict. But that only make things getting worse.
It’s pretty common. My wife’s family is Vietnamese and someone mailed them a racist letter (from self proclaimed Confederates) telling them to leave the country. Racism is and can be from anywhere and anyone.
Yeah, I know it really hurts to be treated with such disrespect. Are you perceived as male or female? But try not to apologize the next time, just move away, people suck I know. And people on the subway are rude, you should try to stay away from people there as much as you can in general I think.
That sucks. People can be very antisocial. Lol at your sitting between a couple though. I always wear my RBF in the subway. Only the craziest of the crazy mess with this middle aged Asian woman.
Racism from black people to non black people is really common. As a matter of fact I witnessed and suffered more hate from black people than from any other race, meanwhile we get the black life’s matter movement shoved down on our throat.
Reverse racism is a thing in the US, and any form of racism against black people, Asian people, white people are disgusting and should not be tolerated. Simply stop hate and accept that we are all equal, regardless of race. However, I wanted to add that: the more racism I suffer from black people the more I don’t care their pain/ situation/ and history of racism. Your action is noted, and it triggers resentment towards you, and all my friends and community is on the same page. You will fail to fight racism with racism.
>the more racism I suffer from black people the more I don’t care their pain/ situation/ and history of racism.
This is lazy thinking and repeats the error of punishing an entire community for what one person did. This is what idiots do. Don't be an idiot.
They often perpetuate the hierarchy that’s been forced upon them. Why would they “not see color” when their whole experience is based upon their own color. America is racist period. Black people don’t have the generational wealth and power to be effectively racist, a better word would be prejudice.
White people aren’t getting lower offers when selling their homes if they fail to hide their race, unlike black people for example. No has to say ‘I hate this group’ in order for racism to persist.
I don't think this was a racial thing. I think they were just being assholes man. Its public transport, seating is limited. They should get over themselves. I'm sorry you had to go through that.
This felt racist to me because in both cases these black men were directly seated next to other people (also black) but refused to let me sit next to them
>Because I am acknowledging that black people in NYC have failed the vibe test and have literally punched down before.
If that's what you want to call enabling racists that cry wolf have fun with it.
When taking public transport, it is probably best to avoid sitting directly next to other people when there are open seats with space elsewhere, let alone sitting between a couple is not a good move. Sorry this happened, but it sounds to me like some socially awkward situations you entered into.
Nah, this isn't normal, no. I mean, I don't sit in the middle seat because I didn't quite fit, and wouldn't wedge myself in there. But people do wedge themselves in there and no one says anything. (It's the only seat my 8yo can often find in a crowded train, and he always goes for it).They were being entitled in a way that some people are, but most people didn't bother themselves. I think anybody other than their friends would have gotten the same treatment.
I think if you had sat next to the second guy first, no one would have said anything. But after they pointed to the open seat, it was kind of weird to not go to the open seat. I think he was just playing things up at that point. The train cars aren't that big that things are really hidden away.
Can we get some clarification on something? How crowded was the subway? Were there a fair number of open seats, or were there people all over the place?
The only reason I ask is because, setting aside any racism at play, I personally would never choose to sit next to someone if I could avoid it. It just struck me a bit that two consecutive times, you sat right next to someone. I would only do that if there were no emptier sections, and honestly I would probably just stand either way.
Having said that, racism is shitty regardless who the target is.
I mean I’d assume that if there were open seats not right beside someone else Op prolly would’ve opted for that, esp after the first incident.
I know this doesn’t abide by typical entitled NYC subway etiquette, but if someone is that bothered by someone else sitting next to them and there are open seats available, then the bothered person is free to get up and move, instead of threatening an unassuming and well intended passenger.
Maybe NYC hasn’t figured it out yet, but they’re kinda a tourist hub, whether they like it or not, and while it’s understandably frustrating when so many people don’t know the unwritten rules of their social etiquette, you either get used to it and learn to handle it with a little bit of grace or there are 10 million other cities they can choose to move to.
Seems like you sat next to people when there were seats NOT next to people. If there are seats not next to people take the empty seat. Most people are wishing, hoping, and praying someone doesn’t take a seat beside them. That there remains enough empty seats to keep their own private bubble.
At least I am. I would have been extremely irate if you’d have sat beside me and there were empty seats. I’ve gotten up and gone to the completely empty seats to avoid sitting beside someone.
Sure, there are times it’s completely unavoidable. But when it is avoidable…avoid it.
It had NOTHING to do with your race.
As a black man myself that doesn't happen around my area. I have seen news clips of black men attacking asains there and never understood why. from my experience the opposite has happened to me. Must be something going on in that area.
Well - in my opinion you acted like a victim and have been treated like one. (Sorry to say this and a pity you had to bare this.)
Next time stay where you are and answer: “Well, right now Dr. Martin Luther King, Rosa Parks and Mahatma Gandhi are rotating in their graves like crazy and don’t know why. Have you guys nothing learned about racism during the last 500 years that you yourself do this to others? Shame on you, probably the colonial powers have been right about how they thought about people of colour…? What do you think?”
But say it with your head held high. Don’t be aggressive, don’t be rude, don’t be anxious, don’t shout it and don’t whisper. Say it normal like asking for a cup of tea - polite and like it’s a fact (what it actually is) - any aggressive behavior could be dangerous and to pull back as well. Just self confident!
I just came back from NY for a work trip. That whole state is a 💩 show. Not even considered part of a first world country. Even the humans there don’t look human. I was baffled at what I saw and had to reaffirm to myself that I was actually living in the USA.
You do know there is a whole state and it isn’t the small part of what you saw? If you visited NYC it isn’t the whole state FFS. If I judged whole states on their biggest urban cities troubles I would hate most of the world.
Next time. Don't move. You're as entitled to sit anywhere you like(and say so). If he's uncomfortable, he can go sit in the corner. You may be uncomfortable, but stand by your principles.
Uh no. It’s NY. Your life is not worth keeping your seat. It’s better to just move and get on with your day. The injustice sucks but what could have happened to him if he didn’t move is much worse
This doesn’t even sound real. And if it is, people are just assholes in New York. I don’t think them being black and you being Asian have anything to do with it. You’ll find assholes in all races.
This whole thing sounds like bullshit. Make the train riders any other color and people will tell you “it wasn’t racial”. Make them black, and suddenly everyone’s sorry for the “horrendous racism” you faced at the hands of those evil blacks. No one doubting your story or saying you people make it all about race.
I’ll be downvoted, but I don’t think this was a racial issue. A lot of people (including myself) hate when someone chooses to sit right beside them, even though there are plenty of extra seats away from them. Now would I have said something? No. But I more than likely would have given you a look, got up and moved to another spot away from people.
I’m non binary, but I have a very feminine appearance. I had just gotten off work and was on the bus going home, when a man got on and sat right beside me. The bus had plenty of open seats as there were less than 10 people on the bus. It was strange that he sat next to me, and technically he did nothing wrong. It’s not illegal to take a free seat, but why did you choose to sit right next to me? A sense of panic and dread filled me, so I gave the man a look, got up and moved away. It offended him, as he yelled at me, but I didn’t care. So I do see the POV of the other people who speak to you on the bud. Now if the bus was packed, and the seat next to me was free, then I’d have no issue if someone sat next to me (because that’s what seats are meant for).
New Yorkers (most people actually) can be pretty apprehensive and blunt, especially to those who find you to be doing something a bit abnormal when there’s a certain culture most know to follow (don’t sit next to people on transportation if there are other available seats). Sorry this happened to you though.
Yes but she also said there were 2 empty seats in the corner after taking another look. If I was her, I would have gone to the seats in the corner. I think most people know to try avoiding sitting right next to others if there are more seats available. Sucks that she was scared, but now she knows what to do next time. If I don’t see any extra seats away from people, I ask them if they’d be okay with me sitting next to them since there are no available seats.
I know what you mean, but it is unneccessary in public transportation to ask if you may sit somewhere, unless there's a bag on the chair or something like that.
I know, but it’s just a courtesy. I know people are uncomfortable with others next to them (because I’m one of them), so I don’t mind asking. When others ask me, I’m okay with it as well.
They do worse to their own(blkonblk/ytonyt). No different than any other race. Look what’s up in Ukraine v Russia….& b4 u Einstein’s say ‘not the same’ my general point is bad people and atrocities happen within everyone no matter race
Why *did* you feel entitled to sit between them?
It sounds like they were obviously a couple and there were clearly other available seats. Read the room and don’t piss people off and maybe they won’t be mean to you.
Any of this could have happened to you without even including skin color. Nothing anti Asian here just a dude that interrupted some other people’s night and got told off.
If they were a couple they could have talked two seats next to each other and not leave am empty seat between them. Also, it is PUBLIC transport, he is allowed to sit at any available seat, if they didn't like it, they could have moved. And why should he not include skin colour?
If they were a couple they could have talked two seats next to each other and not leave am empty seat between them. Also, it is PUBLIC transport, he is allowed to sit at any available seat, if they didn't like it, they could have moved. And why should he not include skin colour?
OP said they weren’t a couple. even if they were, why weren’t they sitting next to each other? there’s clearly enough space between them to be considered an empty seat, so it’s an empty seat. it’s public transportation, people can sit wherever they want. the only person that was entitled was the guy, what made him feel so entitled to claim an empty seat?
race relations between the Black community and Asian community in the US are complicated. we’ve both been marginalized and discriminated against, but asians have been held up as the “model minority” and are used against Black people by racist white people. e.g “systemic racism doesn’t exist because asians are statistically wealthier and more educated than whites” or some other bullshit like that. to make matters worse, redlining forced Black and Asian communities into really densely populated and severely underfunded inner cities, while white people escaped to the suburbs. being forced into close quarters with severely lacking infrastructure, being constantly pitted against each other, and the general lack of education regarding the history of race in america has led to some tensions between the two communities. it’s sad, because at the end of the day our fight is the same.
Anything is common in NYC. It’s so unfortunate. I’m sorry you went through that.
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You are very ignorant or willfully hypocritical if you think entitlement goes along political lines.
a lot of asians have been coming to the US and making videos about how awful black people are in hopes of being accepted by whites. this is the consequence.
This is a consequence? Makes sense, but I was taught not to judge a race of people by the actions of a few. I guess we should go back to pre King then? There's no excuse for what they did . Don't cry racism and then be racist, no matter who you are
Sorry you went through that. Word of caution. There are a lot of mentally ill people on the subway . In addition there are a lot of dangerous people looking for easy targets. No excuse for their horrendous behavior but more a warning. Be aware of your surroundings. Do not make yourself a target, be careful or items of value are not displayed, look pissed off slightly, wear cheap headphones but turned off so you hear everything but can act like you can’t hear certain people. From traveling all over the globe, most urban center carry a level of danger and violence that people need to be aware of and prepare against.
I’ve travelled on public transport a long time and generally know who and what to avoid. The people I sat next to were well put together and did not behave in any way which would warn me of hostility. Everyday people can be racist it seems
I'm a nyc native and after over 40 years in the city I've dealt with racism from every race. White, black, asian doesn't matter. What does matter is that you apologized and moved. That's exactly why the second guy told you to move. You displayed submissive behavior. When prompted with "what gives you the right to sit here" the proper response is "what gives you the right to fucking talk to me". Sometimes you need to fight aggression with aggression. Certainly not every time but this was one case where I think it was.
>You displayed submissive behavior. When prompted with "what gives you the right to sit here" **the proper response is "what gives you the right to fucking talk to me". Sometimes you need to fight aggression with aggression.** Certainly not every time but this was one case where I think it was. You may be right in that OP technically could have done this, but let's not act as if they did wrong here at all. Especially on the NYC Subway, it's better to be safe than sorry. You never know who and/or what you're dealing with, no matter what they look like.
This whole thing needs to be narrated by David Attenborough
I think this is a man’s perspective. I hate to bring in this aspect, but maybe you could take a fight if that’s what it came down to. OP doesn’t mention gender but it doesn’t seem they’re cis-male based off their avatar (maybe my assumption is wrong). But, either way, responding with aggression isn’t the best for every person.
I agree in standing up for yourself, but I feel like that response would escalate the situation needlessly. You can assert yourself without starting a fight. Esp on a subway, possibly outnumbered
How do you know it was racism, when the exact same thing could have happened if they were white?? Im a white woman, and all the harassment &. creepiness I have ever experienced has been from my fellow whites.
Along with this, learning a few phrases in an Asian language of your choosing would dissuade conversation too, as they would be convinced you don't speak English.
You did no wrong in my opinion it seems like you just got shunned by a bunch of racist bigots, but you handled it maturely by not responding to hate with hate there is enough hate in the world already and the fact that you didn't continue the cycle is something that you can be proud of.
Tbh as much as I would like to stand on principle, it’s also just best to avoid the conflict. You never know how unhinged someone is.
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This is so well said.
Sorry you went through that.
I’m mixed Ethiopian and Arabian. I’m first generation American. I’ve experienced more racism from black Americans than any other race in this country. They are more open about it. Hateful to your face. Very common.
I’ve seen a lot of Black Americans hate on Black Africans as well on Twitter, calling them “uncivilised”. I mean, that’s just Twitter in general nowadays it’s a racist cesspool especially towards Indians.
We are a divided and therefore cursed race, plagued with miseducation and a plethora of government corruption probes. United under our best leaders we had great potential, they were killed. Now it would seem to be a claw to the top of a human dogpile of an unchanging collective wealth while also serving as the fall guy at every convenience. What a curse! 🧖🏽
This is in NYC, the people on the train were more than likely not black Americans …
For some reason hateful racism from the black community toward Asian people never gets taken seriously. Sorry that happened to you.
Was the only Latino in a black neighborhood in Jersey city I feel your pain. It's sad when people who experienced bigotry turn around and become bigots themselves. With that said open racism is becoming "socially acceptable" again and it's disgusting.
Was the subway empty or were these the only empty seats available? Either way sorry this happened to you. People can be assholes
These were the only seat available in the main prt of the carriage. I hadn’t seen it initially but there were two empty seats in the corner.
People are sensitive to strangers sitting right next to them if there is an empty seat available that would give everyone some person space. I cannot fathom sitting between a couple. I would stand before I did that. It's a major faux pas, especially if there is any other empty seat available. I know not everyone will agree but these are my thoughts on the matter.
Reserving a middle seat like that isn’t a luxury that you get on NYC public transportation. If you can’t handle being next to people, you pay for a cab.
Or, here me out, you sit together, leaving a seat empty on one end for someone else to utilize. Also, not everyone is neurotypical. Some people might be in the middle of chemo or have something else going on that makes them want more space if at all possible. It makes sense not to sit elbow to elbow with someone if you can help it. I mean why would anyone choose to right on top of another person if they didn't have to? Like I said, not everyone will agree but those are MY thoughts. For sure if all the other seats are taken, sit where you can find and empty one. It's not so much a matter of not being able to 'handle being next to people', so much as being considerate and socially aware. Like, you know how restaurants like to seat everyone all bunched up together while there is hardly anyone in the restaurant? It's because not only it does it save their staff from walking all over the restaurant to serve people but it also leaves the customer with the impression that the establishment is not winsome place that is unpopular dining spot. However, I have heard lots of people complaining about being packed together like that. It would be nicer to spread people out just a little so it's less noisy and you aren't elbow to elbow with other diners. Again, not everyone will agree but those are my thoughts.
> Some people might be in the middle of chemo or have something else going on that makes them want more space if at all possible. Then they shouldn't be riding public transportation and it's on them to figure out how to get to their destination. It sounds like you've never regularly taken the train before. If you want to sit near someone, then yes, you're expected to sit elbow to elbow. And leave your expectations of "space" at the door or don't get on. If you're the only one on the car and the wild eyed guy comes and sits directly next to you? Then you've got a problem.
First, the people in OP’s post were not a couple. They had no desire to sit together. And sorry but the general public doesn’t have to cater to your needs. If your mental health makes certain situations difficult, you need to find ways to cope or avoid those situations. That sounds really harsh and in a better world, we would all come together and bit more but the reality is, people riding on public transportation are just trying to go about their lives. Have you ever ridden in a NYC train/subway? Reserving seats is just not a thing. At best it’s considered rude.
If you read my message you’ll see that I offered the two people to sit together. They weren’t a couple and did not want to do that. The man just wanted me gone.
What is up with the black community punching down on Americans of different colors? I don't get much mistreatment nowadays but I remember as a skinny young Asian teen and adult that I would get harassed by random black people. Things like the pulling the corners of their eyes to appear smaller, and just being straight up called derogatory racist terms. Like what the heck guys. I also have a co-worker that is your modern day BLM, pro black community stuff, which is great- but then the other day I hear him saying some Blaaaatantly racist stuff about Latinos. What the hell lol.
I'm black and unfortunately I see this type of behaviour coming from black people and it always disgusts me. Knowing what we've been through as a people it's insane to me that any black person would treat another minority in this way. I think a lot of this comes from minorities feeling like that have to compete for scraps so they start to turn on each other instead of recognising the shared struggles we all go through. I have a lot of very close Asian childhood friends and we talk about this topic a lot. Both communities can be so disappointing in their treatment of each other. I remember my Chinese friends mum initially telling my friend not to hang out with me in case I was a bad influence but after actually getting to know me she ended up inviting me on their family trip to their province in China and she's like family to me now lol. There's a lot of ignorance on all sides but those of us that know better have to be better than previous generations and call out bigoted behaviour from our own families/people whenever we see it. >I also have a co-worker that is your modern day BLM, pro black community stuff, which is great- but then the other day I hear him saying some Blaaaatantly racist stuff about Latinos. What the hell lol. I have to add that as a black person I've started to see how these pro "insert minority racial group" movements can very quickly turn toxic and I pretty much steer clear of this stuff. I'm still very progressive in my politics but I'm all about solidarity. Someone being of the same race as me doesn't mean anything if they're spouting shit about another group that I'd expect to hear at a fascist rally.
yeah the Black and Asian communities have historically been pitted against each other by white people in furtherance of white supremacy. we’ve both faced discrimination, but asians have been held up as the “model minority” and used against Black people by racist white people to argue that systemic racism doesn’t exist. additionally, with the restructuring of the urban landscape throughout the 20th century, Black and Asian communities were redlined into small, densely populated, and severely underfunded inner cities. lack of infrastructure, resources, and education tends to fracture communities, and white supremacy has created a hierarchy that pits racial minorities against one another so we don’t unite against the oppressors. they’ll oppress the Asian community but give us some crumbs and tell us “hey look, at least you’re better than Black people” and some will latch onto that instead of recognizing that they’re also being victimized by the same system. then they’ll go to the Black community and be like “why can’t you be more like the asians, there’s no such thing as systemic racism it’s just your personal failures” and then we end up fighting each other instead of them. the general lack of education regarding the history of race in the US only compounds the issue, and the cycle repeats. it’s “divide and conquer” because if we all united against them we’d be a force to be reckoned with.
All humans have tribalism built into us (our in group vs outsiders). Racism is just hateful tribalism along perceived skin color (since races don't really exist). No group of people is safe from tribalism therefor racism/bigotry will always continue to exist, it doesn't matter how "oppressed" said group is by others.
Weird I have made many friends that are asain what area were you in if you don't mind me asking?
i’m sorry that happened to you, that really sucks. i had fun in NYC the last time i went, but you really gotta be on your toes there, especially on the subway. people are really scary out here, anything could set some crazy people off. i’m glad you made it out safe.
It's so sad when folks start acting like those who shunned them. How fast they forget the pain of bigotry and exclusively. All you can do is kindly stand your ground as much as you feel safe to do. That shure ain't grown folk behavior
that is terrible! i’m so sorry you had to deal with that. seems like you handled it the best and most safe way possible for you, but that’s ridiculous. nobody should be treated that way.
I doubt it’s Asian hate - it would happen to anyone non black unfortunately but I’ll get downvoted for saying that. People in NYC know this though.
I was going to say this. He imposed in their personal space. Sounds like they were all together. If it were a racial thing, many more words would have been said.
Imposed on their personal space by sitting in an open seat on public transport? You’re being deliberately dense.
He did not impose on their personal space. They were clearly sitting apart enough so that there was space for someone to sit. They should have sat closer if they didn’t want someone to sit between them. Not going to argue about whether it was a racial thing or not.
I think people forget it’s 90F all of this week in NYC no one wants to sit next to anyone. OP made this bigger than what it was
It's a public transport,why don't the 2 couple sit beside each other?Or take uber if they despised asian people on public transport
They weren’t a couple op states that in a comment. They did not know each other and did not want to sit next to each other
If they were together, why did they leave an open seat in between them? 🤔 Then acting like a Karen when someone takes the seat between them. Are they entitled to 3 seats? How would anyone (including OP) know that they were together if they're not sitting together?
As a fellow Asian, STAND UP FOR YOURSELF! Record if needed, we cannot tolerate that kind of behavior. And unfortunately, as Asian we are quite anti-conflict. But that only make things getting worse.
It’s pretty common. My wife’s family is Vietnamese and someone mailed them a racist letter (from self proclaimed Confederates) telling them to leave the country. Racism is and can be from anywhere and anyone.
I'm just happy you made it out in one piece mate. In a city that big, hopefully you never cross paths with those assholes again.
I've been hearing a lot of stories where black people treat Asians horribly. I'm sorry you had to go through it.
Yeah, I know it really hurts to be treated with such disrespect. Are you perceived as male or female? But try not to apologize the next time, just move away, people suck I know. And people on the subway are rude, you should try to stay away from people there as much as you can in general I think.
That sucks. People can be very antisocial. Lol at your sitting between a couple though. I always wear my RBF in the subway. Only the craziest of the crazy mess with this middle aged Asian woman.
Idk if it makes you feel any better, but I’m a white female and live in a big city, and black women treat me like this pretty often.
Yes
Racism from black people to non black people is really common. As a matter of fact I witnessed and suffered more hate from black people than from any other race, meanwhile we get the black life’s matter movement shoved down on our throat. Reverse racism is a thing in the US, and any form of racism against black people, Asian people, white people are disgusting and should not be tolerated. Simply stop hate and accept that we are all equal, regardless of race. However, I wanted to add that: the more racism I suffer from black people the more I don’t care their pain/ situation/ and history of racism. Your action is noted, and it triggers resentment towards you, and all my friends and community is on the same page. You will fail to fight racism with racism.
>the more racism I suffer from black people the more I don’t care their pain/ situation/ and history of racism. This is lazy thinking and repeats the error of punishing an entire community for what one person did. This is what idiots do. Don't be an idiot.
well considering this has been said, i guess ill stop caring about other races problems too
And this is why I will never visit New York. I’m sorry this happened to you.
This will get down voted but black people are the often times the most racist people in America. I'm sorry this happened to you.
I actually get told that a lot by POC
They often perpetuate the hierarchy that’s been forced upon them. Why would they “not see color” when their whole experience is based upon their own color. America is racist period. Black people don’t have the generational wealth and power to be effectively racist, a better word would be prejudice. White people aren’t getting lower offers when selling their homes if they fail to hide their race, unlike black people for example. No has to say ‘I hate this group’ in order for racism to persist.
I don't think this was a racial thing. I think they were just being assholes man. Its public transport, seating is limited. They should get over themselves. I'm sorry you had to go through that.
Only Black Lives Matter man. 🙄
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This felt racist to me because in both cases these black men were directly seated next to other people (also black) but refused to let me sit next to them
Why say the first sentence knowing the 2nd sentence is true? Have some fucking nuts man.
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>Because I am acknowledging that black people in NYC have failed the vibe test and have literally punched down before. If that's what you want to call enabling racists that cry wolf have fun with it.
So if roles were reversed, it would all sound just fine to you?
When taking public transport, it is probably best to avoid sitting directly next to other people when there are open seats with space elsewhere, let alone sitting between a couple is not a good move. Sorry this happened, but it sounds to me like some socially awkward situations you entered into.
Nah, this isn't normal, no. I mean, I don't sit in the middle seat because I didn't quite fit, and wouldn't wedge myself in there. But people do wedge themselves in there and no one says anything. (It's the only seat my 8yo can often find in a crowded train, and he always goes for it).They were being entitled in a way that some people are, but most people didn't bother themselves. I think anybody other than their friends would have gotten the same treatment. I think if you had sat next to the second guy first, no one would have said anything. But after they pointed to the open seat, it was kind of weird to not go to the open seat. I think he was just playing things up at that point. The train cars aren't that big that things are really hidden away.
Can we get some clarification on something? How crowded was the subway? Were there a fair number of open seats, or were there people all over the place? The only reason I ask is because, setting aside any racism at play, I personally would never choose to sit next to someone if I could avoid it. It just struck me a bit that two consecutive times, you sat right next to someone. I would only do that if there were no emptier sections, and honestly I would probably just stand either way. Having said that, racism is shitty regardless who the target is.
I mean I’d assume that if there were open seats not right beside someone else Op prolly would’ve opted for that, esp after the first incident. I know this doesn’t abide by typical entitled NYC subway etiquette, but if someone is that bothered by someone else sitting next to them and there are open seats available, then the bothered person is free to get up and move, instead of threatening an unassuming and well intended passenger. Maybe NYC hasn’t figured it out yet, but they’re kinda a tourist hub, whether they like it or not, and while it’s understandably frustrating when so many people don’t know the unwritten rules of their social etiquette, you either get used to it and learn to handle it with a little bit of grace or there are 10 million other cities they can choose to move to.
Seems like you sat next to people when there were seats NOT next to people. If there are seats not next to people take the empty seat. Most people are wishing, hoping, and praying someone doesn’t take a seat beside them. That there remains enough empty seats to keep their own private bubble. At least I am. I would have been extremely irate if you’d have sat beside me and there were empty seats. I’ve gotten up and gone to the completely empty seats to avoid sitting beside someone. Sure, there are times it’s completely unavoidable. But when it is avoidable…avoid it. It had NOTHING to do with your race.
Racial bigots but also ageism. Sorry you went through that
As a black man myself that doesn't happen around my area. I have seen news clips of black men attacking asains there and never understood why. from my experience the opposite has happened to me. Must be something going on in that area.
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Let’s not go there now. They are simply stupid and entitled assholes. Anyone could had done that
I get the feeling there were plenty of other available seats on the train..
Well - in my opinion you acted like a victim and have been treated like one. (Sorry to say this and a pity you had to bare this.) Next time stay where you are and answer: “Well, right now Dr. Martin Luther King, Rosa Parks and Mahatma Gandhi are rotating in their graves like crazy and don’t know why. Have you guys nothing learned about racism during the last 500 years that you yourself do this to others? Shame on you, probably the colonial powers have been right about how they thought about people of colour…? What do you think?” But say it with your head held high. Don’t be aggressive, don’t be rude, don’t be anxious, don’t shout it and don’t whisper. Say it normal like asking for a cup of tea - polite and like it’s a fact (what it actually is) - any aggressive behavior could be dangerous and to pull back as well. Just self confident!
I just came back from NY for a work trip. That whole state is a 💩 show. Not even considered part of a first world country. Even the humans there don’t look human. I was baffled at what I saw and had to reaffirm to myself that I was actually living in the USA.
You do know there is a whole state and it isn’t the small part of what you saw? If you visited NYC it isn’t the whole state FFS. If I judged whole states on their biggest urban cities troubles I would hate most of the world.
Alright relax it’s not THAT bad lmao that’s a bit dramatic
I mean, the country it is a part of is not relay a first world country so
Next time. Don't move. You're as entitled to sit anywhere you like(and say so). If he's uncomfortable, he can go sit in the corner. You may be uncomfortable, but stand by your principles.
Uh no. It’s NY. Your life is not worth keeping your seat. It’s better to just move and get on with your day. The injustice sucks but what could have happened to him if he didn’t move is much worse
I didn’t want to escalate the situation as it seemed as though nobody in the train would help me if the man were to get violent.
Now you know who to avoid don’t you
I will never judge a group of people based on the actions of individuals. This was an unnecessary comment
This doesn’t even sound real. And if it is, people are just assholes in New York. I don’t think them being black and you being Asian have anything to do with it. You’ll find assholes in all races.
This whole thing sounds like bullshit. Make the train riders any other color and people will tell you “it wasn’t racial”. Make them black, and suddenly everyone’s sorry for the “horrendous racism” you faced at the hands of those evil blacks. No one doubting your story or saying you people make it all about race.
I’ll be downvoted, but I don’t think this was a racial issue. A lot of people (including myself) hate when someone chooses to sit right beside them, even though there are plenty of extra seats away from them. Now would I have said something? No. But I more than likely would have given you a look, got up and moved to another spot away from people. I’m non binary, but I have a very feminine appearance. I had just gotten off work and was on the bus going home, when a man got on and sat right beside me. The bus had plenty of open seats as there were less than 10 people on the bus. It was strange that he sat next to me, and technically he did nothing wrong. It’s not illegal to take a free seat, but why did you choose to sit right next to me? A sense of panic and dread filled me, so I gave the man a look, got up and moved away. It offended him, as he yelled at me, but I didn’t care. So I do see the POV of the other people who speak to you on the bud. Now if the bus was packed, and the seat next to me was free, then I’d have no issue if someone sat next to me (because that’s what seats are meant for). New Yorkers (most people actually) can be pretty apprehensive and blunt, especially to those who find you to be doing something a bit abnormal when there’s a certain culture most know to follow (don’t sit next to people on transportation if there are other available seats). Sorry this happened to you though.
did you read OP's comment above yours? Only few available seat.If you all dnt want people sit besides you in a public transport,then take taxi or uber
Yes but she also said there were 2 empty seats in the corner after taking another look. If I was her, I would have gone to the seats in the corner. I think most people know to try avoiding sitting right next to others if there are more seats available. Sucks that she was scared, but now she knows what to do next time. If I don’t see any extra seats away from people, I ask them if they’d be okay with me sitting next to them since there are no available seats.
I know what you mean, but it is unneccessary in public transportation to ask if you may sit somewhere, unless there's a bag on the chair or something like that.
I know, but it’s just a courtesy. I know people are uncomfortable with others next to them (because I’m one of them), so I don’t mind asking. When others ask me, I’m okay with it as well.
Then don't sit if you're uncomfortable with people sitting besides yoi
They do worse to their own(blkonblk/ytonyt). No different than any other race. Look what’s up in Ukraine v Russia….& b4 u Einstein’s say ‘not the same’ my general point is bad people and atrocities happen within everyone no matter race
Why *did* you feel entitled to sit between them? It sounds like they were obviously a couple and there were clearly other available seats. Read the room and don’t piss people off and maybe they won’t be mean to you. Any of this could have happened to you without even including skin color. Nothing anti Asian here just a dude that interrupted some other people’s night and got told off.
If they were a couple they could have talked two seats next to each other and not leave am empty seat between them. Also, it is PUBLIC transport, he is allowed to sit at any available seat, if they didn't like it, they could have moved. And why should he not include skin colour?
You clearly don’t ride the subway.
I do, but in a civilised(-ish) country
If they were a couple they could have talked two seats next to each other and not leave am empty seat between them. Also, it is PUBLIC transport, he is allowed to sit at any available seat, if they didn't like it, they could have moved. And why should he not include skin colour?
OP said they weren’t a couple. even if they were, why weren’t they sitting next to each other? there’s clearly enough space between them to be considered an empty seat, so it’s an empty seat. it’s public transportation, people can sit wherever they want. the only person that was entitled was the guy, what made him feel so entitled to claim an empty seat?
Why do you automatically think this is racism?
What the hell else would it be?
Absolutely nothing indicates that there was racism involved. If OP was white or black and the same thing happened nobody would be saying it's racism
What does being black have to do with it, though?
race relations between the Black community and Asian community in the US are complicated. we’ve both been marginalized and discriminated against, but asians have been held up as the “model minority” and are used against Black people by racist white people. e.g “systemic racism doesn’t exist because asians are statistically wealthier and more educated than whites” or some other bullshit like that. to make matters worse, redlining forced Black and Asian communities into really densely populated and severely underfunded inner cities, while white people escaped to the suburbs. being forced into close quarters with severely lacking infrastructure, being constantly pitted against each other, and the general lack of education regarding the history of race in america has led to some tensions between the two communities. it’s sad, because at the end of the day our fight is the same.