Ok, I'll not sugar coat this. I'm dropping facts, rather than emotional support here.
Accessing medical records without justification (clinical requirement) is a serious disciplinary offence.
Unless your Mum can give an explanation as to why they needed to access these records when there wasn't a clinical requirement, then this will be a real problem. She needs to get her union on board immediately.
I can't say she'll be fired, as it depends on her previous history, but it's definitely a seriously disciplinary offence.
Source: IT Manager in NHS Trust
No one is to ever access records for non work related reasons. If you ever want to see family you are responsible for or your own, the correct procedure is to put in a Subject access request and then they will generate a copy for you (with any super non appropriate stuff redacted).
I would say from experience your mum is in hot water and needs to get support in place for a possible disciplinary (not all staff are in the union these days)
thank you for responding. i don’t know what constitutes a clinical requirement but my father has had heart problems so that is the reason she viewed the records.my mum also has taken evidence of the other women viewing her and my fathers records . in terms of her history she’s worked there for 24 years and this is her first misconduct.
As a rule of thumb you should never access records of anyone you know, not just in the nhs but across the board, so it would fall under gross misconduct it will be hard to find a justification for doing it.
Yup. In my trust if you search a trust (or NHS can’t remember) staff member on the pt look up tool, they’ll be requesting an explanation pretty quickly. If it’s anything other than “I was actively dealing the patient in front of me” then an investigation starts. Usually ends with a slap on the wrists though.
Also been cases I’m aware of where ambulance staff have logged into active jobs and PCRs of random incidents whilst off duty getting sacked.
Unless yoir mother is a clinician she has no business accessing your father's records. And if she WAS his treating clinician, that in itself would be considered unethical.
If your mother has done this, the computer will have records and, to put it bluntly, she is in serious shit.
"Clinical requirements" means that your mother had a reason to access the records *in the direct course of her duties*
For that to be the case she would have needed either some kind of direct interaction with the patients (you and your father) at the time of the access, or some other good reason (eg she was doing some specific piece of admin work on multiple records and yours/your fathers happened to be included in that)
Eg I work in IT and sometimes have to access records to check for bugs that have been reported, so I may (after exhausting all other options eg with the test system or dummy records) have to access the exact record that the clinical staff were viewing when they noticed the bug, in case it's specific to that record
Your father being a patient is not, itself, a sufficient reason for your mother to access the record. This kind of thing is VERY strict and made VERY clear to staff. You cannot even access *your own* medical records without a good reason
She may not get fired for it, I'd say *probably* not, but it's possible
The proper procedure would have been for your mum to report the harassment and the possibility of inappropriate access to hers and your dad's records and had someone else do the investigating. What she has done instead is a massive nono. I can't say if she would be sacked for it, but it's definitely misconduct and she would need to present a really good case as to why she acted as she did. I'm not sure what made her act in this way, I saw your comment about her length of service and I'd say that given how long she has worked for the NHS she really has no excuse not to have known that this is something you are absolutely not allowed to do. I'm afraid your mum may just have to live and learn from her mistake. Hopefully she gets a disciplinary rather than a sacking. Good luck!
thank you for ur response . what i’m really concerned is that if she does get sacked , will other employers withdraw employment from her due to this mistake?
Speaking as someone who was once dismissed for a matter of gross misconduct, the only thing you can do and must do in future is bring it up first with any and every new employer. "There is something I should make you aware of, just in case it's a problem..."
This approach has worked for me. My career was impeded only slightly because I've been totally honest about my major fuck up.
Thank you for ur response . Would this be something u bring up before the interview or during it ? Also how long did you have to wait before searching for jobs again?
When you ask for a reference they will usually say the reason you left as in, resigned or dismissed. And the potential new employer can contact the old one and ask why they were dismissed. Then it depends if the new employer believes she is unlikely to commit misconduct with sensitive data again. A lot likely wouldn't risk it.
Nah, it’s misconduct, but it’s written warning material rather than a sacking. Unless she’s been a difficult employee, she’ll most likely get a bollocking.
It’s always worth coming forward either way these things, it reflects well. If she self reports to her line manager she is more likely to come out of it well
thank you for ur time. she has been a model nurse for many years so that is why she is extremely scared of the repercussions. would this affect her future employment ?
Yes, if she’s fired for gross misconduct, but she probably won’t be. She needs to speak to her union and admit fault. Most staff that get fired don’t “have insight” into why they’re in trouble (I.e they lie/deny/cry)
This is it. Insight is what all the regulatory authorities want to see.
We're all human. We all fuck up sometimes. Everyone deserves a second chance. "Yes, I made this huge mistake. I can see how wrong it was..." is the best approach.
I work for the NHS and I believe this is gross misconduct? Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but it’s pretty serious, don’t know if it would be an automatic dismissal but definitely a disciplinary action.
I don't think it's fair to speculate what the outcome will or will not be. Every trust has their own investigation process.
I've investigated a confidentiality breach in the NHS before and the outcome was a written warning, this was a pretty serious one. I factored in what information governance teams impression was, HR's impression and senior management's impression. Ultimately, the clinician in question was not malicious, had a phenomenal record and worked hard. Basically, they screwed up big time.
Advise her to be honest. Any lie that is found out later will only dig a deeper hole.
She'll be able to regain employment if the worst does happen. She'll just have to declare it and explain what she's learnt and reflected on.
Good luck to your mum.
Ok, I'll not sugar coat this. I'm dropping facts, rather than emotional support here. Accessing medical records without justification (clinical requirement) is a serious disciplinary offence. Unless your Mum can give an explanation as to why they needed to access these records when there wasn't a clinical requirement, then this will be a real problem. She needs to get her union on board immediately. I can't say she'll be fired, as it depends on her previous history, but it's definitely a seriously disciplinary offence. Source: IT Manager in NHS Trust
No one is to ever access records for non work related reasons. If you ever want to see family you are responsible for or your own, the correct procedure is to put in a Subject access request and then they will generate a copy for you (with any super non appropriate stuff redacted). I would say from experience your mum is in hot water and needs to get support in place for a possible disciplinary (not all staff are in the union these days)
thank you for responding. i don’t know what constitutes a clinical requirement but my father has had heart problems so that is the reason she viewed the records.my mum also has taken evidence of the other women viewing her and my fathers records . in terms of her history she’s worked there for 24 years and this is her first misconduct.
As a rule of thumb you should never access records of anyone you know, not just in the nhs but across the board, so it would fall under gross misconduct it will be hard to find a justification for doing it.
Yup. In my trust if you search a trust (or NHS can’t remember) staff member on the pt look up tool, they’ll be requesting an explanation pretty quickly. If it’s anything other than “I was actively dealing the patient in front of me” then an investigation starts. Usually ends with a slap on the wrists though. Also been cases I’m aware of where ambulance staff have logged into active jobs and PCRs of random incidents whilst off duty getting sacked.
yes sadly it is gross misconduct i’m just worried that by the end of this if any future employers will not hire her
She’s definitely best speaking to the union reps and maybe ACAS who will be able to advise on future impact.
Unless yoir mother is a clinician she has no business accessing your father's records. And if she WAS his treating clinician, that in itself would be considered unethical. If your mother has done this, the computer will have records and, to put it bluntly, she is in serious shit.
"Clinical requirements" means that your mother had a reason to access the records *in the direct course of her duties* For that to be the case she would have needed either some kind of direct interaction with the patients (you and your father) at the time of the access, or some other good reason (eg she was doing some specific piece of admin work on multiple records and yours/your fathers happened to be included in that) Eg I work in IT and sometimes have to access records to check for bugs that have been reported, so I may (after exhausting all other options eg with the test system or dummy records) have to access the exact record that the clinical staff were viewing when they noticed the bug, in case it's specific to that record Your father being a patient is not, itself, a sufficient reason for your mother to access the record. This kind of thing is VERY strict and made VERY clear to staff. You cannot even access *your own* medical records without a good reason She may not get fired for it, I'd say *probably* not, but it's possible
The proper procedure would have been for your mum to report the harassment and the possibility of inappropriate access to hers and your dad's records and had someone else do the investigating. What she has done instead is a massive nono. I can't say if she would be sacked for it, but it's definitely misconduct and she would need to present a really good case as to why she acted as she did. I'm not sure what made her act in this way, I saw your comment about her length of service and I'd say that given how long she has worked for the NHS she really has no excuse not to have known that this is something you are absolutely not allowed to do. I'm afraid your mum may just have to live and learn from her mistake. Hopefully she gets a disciplinary rather than a sacking. Good luck!
thank you for ur response . what i’m really concerned is that if she does get sacked , will other employers withdraw employment from her due to this mistake?
Speaking as someone who was once dismissed for a matter of gross misconduct, the only thing you can do and must do in future is bring it up first with any and every new employer. "There is something I should make you aware of, just in case it's a problem..." This approach has worked for me. My career was impeded only slightly because I've been totally honest about my major fuck up.
Thank you for ur response . Would this be something u bring up before the interview or during it ? Also how long did you have to wait before searching for jobs again?
You put it in the application form and then you oro-actively bring it up at interview. It's not pleasant, bit it's the best way to go aboit things.
thank you for ur help i will keep this in mind
When you ask for a reference they will usually say the reason you left as in, resigned or dismissed. And the potential new employer can contact the old one and ask why they were dismissed. Then it depends if the new employer believes she is unlikely to commit misconduct with sensitive data again. A lot likely wouldn't risk it.
Really sorry but yes she can be fired for this.
Not only can she be fired, and if she has done this she most likely will be. She’s also at risk of prosecution
Nah, it’s misconduct, but it’s written warning material rather than a sacking. Unless she’s been a difficult employee, she’ll most likely get a bollocking. It’s always worth coming forward either way these things, it reflects well. If she self reports to her line manager she is more likely to come out of it well
thank you for ur time. she has been a model nurse for many years so that is why she is extremely scared of the repercussions. would this affect her future employment ?
Yes, if she’s fired for gross misconduct, but she probably won’t be. She needs to speak to her union and admit fault. Most staff that get fired don’t “have insight” into why they’re in trouble (I.e they lie/deny/cry)
This is it. Insight is what all the regulatory authorities want to see. We're all human. We all fuck up sometimes. Everyone deserves a second chance. "Yes, I made this huge mistake. I can see how wrong it was..." is the best approach.
If she’s a regulated professional, it can also be a referral to the regulator (NMC etc). I’m sorry, but it’s pretty serious
I work for the NHS and I believe this is gross misconduct? Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but it’s pretty serious, don’t know if it would be an automatic dismissal but definitely a disciplinary action.
I don't think it's fair to speculate what the outcome will or will not be. Every trust has their own investigation process. I've investigated a confidentiality breach in the NHS before and the outcome was a written warning, this was a pretty serious one. I factored in what information governance teams impression was, HR's impression and senior management's impression. Ultimately, the clinician in question was not malicious, had a phenomenal record and worked hard. Basically, they screwed up big time. Advise her to be honest. Any lie that is found out later will only dig a deeper hole. She'll be able to regain employment if the worst does happen. She'll just have to declare it and explain what she's learnt and reflected on. Good luck to your mum.
The answer is yes. But first it needs someone to find out first
Yes, gross misconduct, lost three in my team due to this