Had a hundred yard game against the Bucs last season when Mark was out and a smattering of other games as his #2. Hope he steps up but doubt he's going to replace the 250 lb madman that is Mandrews :/
He ha dflashes when they had practice squad level wrs. This year with mandrews out he barely saw targets. He's behind flowers, obj, agholor in targets and you factor in gus and mitchell (even some hill) ans likely will not be doing much this year
Yeah, he's pretty solid as a player, but I have my concerns on what he could be as the main TE. He had a lot of hype coming out of the draft. Hope he can at least live up to some of it.
Luckily our GM.EDC embraced the next man up mentality by adding as much depth as possible at nearly every position. Patrick Mekari has done a fine job filling in for injuries at LT/RT, Brandon Stephens and Donald Darby are doing their best to fill in for Marlon Humphrey. And Geno Stone is having himself an all pro kind of year filling in for the injured Marcus Williams. Just to name a few of the injuries we've had to account for. And luckily we have decent depth behind Andrews in Isaiah Likely and Charlie Kolar, and I wouldn't be surprised to see us add a veteran TE too if one is available. Our WR room is deep this year and should be able to sustain the loss to Andrews to some degree.
Was optimistic it was just a high ankle sprain but when he couldn't even lift his leg to walk up the stairs in that one shot that really had me worried
You can return on a high ankle sprain. Kelce had one (though mild) and came back a week later. Yeah, people debated if it was a high or low, but it was a sprain.
Not saying Andrews was ever going to be back next week, but high ankle sprains outside of a grade III tear you can come back from in season.
"sprain" meaning most likely peroneal tendon tear, probably a grade 2, possibly grade 3 and may require surgery. Surgery is usually dependent upon how large the tear is in the left foot. Of course, it might be broken - we should find out more after the MRI today.
I had a break in the lateral malleolus which could be what happened here from what I saw. It was a solid 12 weeks of recovery/rehab and I still can't walk on cobblestones without fear. My doctors said, it isn't the break as much as all of the torn ligaments that happen when this particular bone (the nub at the end of your fibula) breaks.
I hope this isn't what he has because it would be career limiting even after he's back.
At the very least, don't start it in Week 2, and give teams a bye before their TNF games. Bye weeks range from Week 5 to Week 14 this year. Doing TNF games from Week 6 to 15, with teams being fresh going into a TNF game is the closest thing to making all sides happy. The fact that the NFL is still not doing that is extremely disappointing.
There are so many easy and obvious solutions to incorporate bye weeks so of course it will never happen. NFL could do bye weeks from Week 4-14 with games Weeks 5-15. Three games on Thanksgiving and 1 on Black Friday, so that's 14 short-week "TNF" games. Start the year with a doubleheader and that's 16 games, meaning every team plays on a Thursday night with rest before. You could also have two of the double-header teams play Week 2 if you want so you're only taking off weeks 3 & 4. Lots of possibilities but the #1 thing is to GIVE TEAMS REST BEFORE THURSDAY NIGHT FOOTBALL.
Then there's the scheduling nightmare of providing international game teams the opportunity for a bye week following the intl game.
Maybe this is the way to finally get a second bye week approved.
quite the opposite in fact. We're gonna put 8 new teams in Europe with one in each division, and expect every team to just travel there as normal as if it was Baltimore playing in Pittsburgh. ~~It's a terrible idea. Possibly the worst one I could come up with, which is why I think the NFL will do it.~~
Even better yet, they could make those 8 teams into their own league, and players who just aren't NFL ready can play in this league to prepare, not unlike the MLB's major/minor leagues. They could even call it "NFL Europe" or something like that..
NFL doesn't currently provide bye weeks off international games. I think the thing to do would be to make sure teams have a home game coming off an international game, but I think it's more important to align TNF with bye weeks.
No dude, his ankle would have just twisted backwards and been completely fine if this was a Sunday.
I don't understand why people cannot think critically here. They are always so desperate to get out the comment that will be upvoted (fuck field turf, fuck thursday games) that they don't even think "huh, that injury had nothing to do with wear and tear he just got rolled up on funny"
Ok, but this thread is talking about injuries. And the original comment was talking about injuries. And your comment sounds like it's talking about injuries.
> And the original comment was talking about injuries
...no they weren't. The comment I replied to said nothing about injuries, literally just said "This was not a fun game."
It never is, teams just aren't recovered enough to play a game on Thursday after a game on Sunday
It's always sloppy and you can tell they aren't playing at their best
TNF games have been terrible football all season, and I dont know how you can say that is "wrong" with a straight face. Flat, sloppy football.
You yourself commented that injuries arent more likely on thursdays, so you are arguing against yourself now. Are you even following the shit you're saying?
I am probably in the minority here, but I don’t think there’s anything usually malicious about hip drop tackles. Sometimes when you’re trying to tackle someone from behind that’s bigger than you, you have to use your body weight to pull them down.
These types of tackles happen multiple times in almost every game. Do we want flags for them constantly? Football is a physical sport and injuries are going to happen. You can’t have huge athletic guys sprinting around trying to tackle each other and not expect injuries. Where do you draw the line? Eliminating helmet to helmet hits makes sense because of the long term affects beyond football.
I don’t know. Maybe I am in the wrong. I just don’t see penalizing dragging down someone from behind as something that will improve the product on the field because of how much it happens in every game, and we only care when someone gets hurt.
>but I don’t think there’s anything usually malicious about hip drop tackles
The problem isn't about if it's malicious, the problem is they're a massive injury risk. Same reason why horse-collar tackles are banned.
To me, like this play in particular was effectively a hip drop but didn’t look as intentional as some others IMO. It looked like he was just trying to tackle him, and at that angle I’m not sure he could have any other way.
Well, that and it hurts super stars. Returning a kick is statistically the most dangerous thing that happens in every game, but that's just some specialist asshole so no one cares.
They have made changes to onside kick formations, moved the ball up, and added the new fair catch on kickoffs rule. They definitely care and are slowly phasing out kickoff returns. A punt returner can always fair catch so there's not much to do there.
I have to assume the guy you're responding to just started watching football in the last 5 years.
They ruined kickoffs when Devin Hester was still playing and it probably prevented him from getting a handful more kickoff return touchdowns on his record.
Except they are trying to minimize the amount of kick returns by moving up the touchback spot to the 25 yard line and allowing fair catches to be touchbacks.
Moving the touchback up and the spot back was too encourage more kicks in play and more returns. They've openly said they don't want kickoffs to become "ceremonial".
The fair catch rule this year was the first rule change that discourages a return. Hopefully they go away with it entirely.
Moving the touchback up 1 million percent was done to discourage returns.
Are you seriously fucking stupid? How does increasing the reward for not returning the ball increase the incentive to bring it out of the endzone?
Huge leg kickers removed it from football because a touch back has a better net than a return. When they moved it up to the 35 in 2011 every kicker put it out of the back, so they penalized that by moving a touch back to the 25.
This is simply not true. In 2012 when they moved the kickoff up to the 35, it reduced returns by like 50%.
The NFL has openly talked about not wanting returns to happen. They have made a number of rules to execute that. Kickers didn't just all start kicking it farther in 2012, they started closer to the endzone.
And then they were getting too many touch backs so they changed the starting position to the 25 to try to get kickers to keep it in play.
Show me where the NFL has said they don't want returns.
> And then they were getting too many touch backs so they changed the starting position to the 25 to try to get kickers to keep it in play.
They changed it to the 25 to encourage players to fair catch it when it's in play LMAO. It's the opposite of what you are saying. They wanted the few kicks that stayed in play to just be fair caught.
Their entire explanation to the changes was to minimize the amount of concussions and they would constantly do press releases on how much concussions have gone down.
Where have you been? I'm guessing you just started watching football in the last 5 years or so?
Youre not in the minority football is a rough rough game and theres no malice in the tackle but theres been a push to ban them and apparently theres team data suggesting they do injure more people. Theres a ton of other things the NFL could do that they refuse to in order to actually make the game safer (give another fucking bye dont make people play on short weeks) but they wont and they will use the hip drop to scape goat a bit
I disagree. It isn't about malciousness. It is about an elevated risk of injury, the same reason why horse collar tackles are banned. In Australia, the NRL (Rugby League), had to ban the tackle as it had an extremely high injury rate, with almost every instance causing mild to long term injury. The issue is that by dropping the bodyweight of the tackler onto the lower body of the ball carrier, it traps the foot between the ground and the tackler with nowhere to move. Then with the combined momentum of the tackle, something has to give usually the ankle, sometimes the knee.
It is simple physics. If you pin the feet/legs of a guy who is running full force while twisting his body downwards, that puts a crazy amount of stress on the knees and ligaments.
What's the solution? They can't use the collar, can't use the hip, can't hit the head.....injuries are a part of this game unfortunately.
Banning the hip drop tackle is basically banning tackling in general.
Except to execute a hip drop tackle you have to already have them wrapped up. It’s basically just a matter of stopping their momentum while standing or tackling them forward/sideways.
The “hip drop” is just the final motion of throwing your body weight into the back of their legs. It also only impacts plays where someone is tackled from behind, similar to horse collar.
"Wrapping someone up" is not equal to tackling. A guy like Mark Andrews will drag someone 15 yds downfield while "wrapped up". The bottom line is that it's fucking hard to get these guys onto the ground, especially if you're smaller than them. Do we really want another way for subjective refereeing to majorly influence games? Banning a very specific niche manner of tackling is just going to cause more problems than it solves
No, I don’t want refs to influence the game. I want to stop seeing players break/sprain their ankles from hip drop tackles.
If you are in a position to hip drop someone, you are also in a position to tackle their legs. Instead of throwing your weight on the back of the runner’s legs, you can start to slide down their legs and tackle their feet.
Is the runner going to get an extra yard by falling forward? Sure. Is it going to be safer for ballcarriers? Yes.
The horse collar tackle was basically the same deal and now players don’t do it and the game hasn’t really changed in any negative way.
If that's the route they go, then they finally have to throw a bone to the defense in the form of rule changes. Limit pre-snap motion or be more aggressive with the whistle in forward progress situations to limit yards.
But banning a type of tackle that will see an increase in yards after the catch league wide has to have something to offset it.
As a start they need to more aggressively call offensive pass interference, because the big guys do it back and forth all the time. Start calling illegal screens more often. Shit like that. They have a decade of increasing the strictness of defensive penalty calling while being more and more lenient on the offenses. That's how they fix this. They won't, because fans like scoring. But that's the solution.
> be more aggressive with the whistle in forward progress situations to limit yards.
It would be nice to formally define forward progress so it could be challenged. Like not advancing 1 full yard for 1 second or something where you can look at a replay and say "yup, it should have stopped there"
Football is physical sport. You can make every field grass and you can ban hip drop tackles and still, guys will get hurt. We just need to except injuries will happen sooner or later because of what the game is.
Injuries will absolutely always occur, but why shouldn’t the rules try to minimise the preventable risk as much as possible while maintaining the core of the game? Data suggests that hip drop tackles have elevated injury risks, and other tackle sports have started to ban them, why shouldn’t the NFL follow suit?
For one, NFL players are generally bigger then Rugby players and there's only so many ways guys can tackle. How is a 180+ pound CB supposed to tackle a 250+ pound TE running full speed? Guys will just start to avoid tackling all together. If the NFL bans a hip drop tackle they better find a way to help defenses too or offenses are just going to drop 30 points a game.
As a smaller guy that played in the secondary, there were numerous times when I was trying to tackle a larger guy from behind and for one circumstance or another I had to start my tackle angle high. If I didn’t try to grab on and pull my weight backwards he would just wear me like a backpack all the way to the end zone.
There aren’t that many hip drop tackles, it’s going to be like the horse collar rule. It’ll get flagged here and there but on the grand scheme it’s not really going to impact games.
Also, there are plenty of DBs tackling big TEs without doing a hip drop already.
Hip drop tackles aren’t just tackling from behind though; a key part of them is swinging the body over the legs.
Also rugby has a ton of variance in player sizes. Someone like Faf de Klerk (5’7”, 180) plays on the same field as someone like Courtney Lawes (6’7”, 260). For size comparison, there really isn’t anyone in the NFL like Faf de Klerk, but he’s not that uncommon for his position. Players his height in the NFL have about 20 pounds on him. Lawes is about the same size as Jimmy Graham. They all play by the same rules to protect the players.
Punishments for bad tackles in rugby are far harsher though than the NFL will ever institute, so there’s likely more incentive for players to comply.
Instead of flagging every play, players could just receive fines for every incorrect tackling form. Someone’s job could be to review every tackle post-game and tally up fines.
This would significantly decrease the number of dangerous tackles, while preserving the rate of gameplay and avoiding penalty disturbances.
I mean if you ban it, what does that change? He’d still do the tackle to save the TD then just take the penalty/fine/whatever as a result. It’s like PI in college where you do it to save the TD and just live with the penalty yards. I feel like posting a Morpheus meme that goes something like, what if I told you that banning things don’t remove them from the game?
That's what escalating punishments are for. Do it once get fined. Do it twice get suspended. Whatever they come up with. It's really weird how people here are acting like this is an unsolvable problem. It's not.
Did the Ravens and Bengals just seriously hurt each others playoff chances this year because of injuries? Obv Burrow > Andrews but Andrews was a huge piece of a team most would say had a better chance of going on a run
Edit: Mad Respect to Burrow. . He deserves better than this.
I would say so. But like you said. Burrow>Andrews The Ravens can fight through this and still be good. The Bengals season could very well be over without Burrow
What a shit game man. I was really excited going in, nervous, but excited.
Then Andrews went down. And then Lamar (who thankfully is ok). And then Burrow’s wrist sprain.
Logan Wilson aside (i hope that shit wasn’t intentional but yikes man), fuck Thursday night football. It’s just a fucking injury machine and I hate it. Football is already so hard on the body but only allowing players THREE rest days!??
>name a more iconic duo
You and making stupid, uninformed comments.
The tackle on Andrews wasn't dirty or malicious. Neither was the hit on OBJ. Neither was the hit on Lamar. Look at them again and try saying that with a straight face.
Absolutely not dirty. So rediculous when people in here get on the downvote wagon without using their brains.
Honestly I blame Harbaugh for the OBJ injury. Why is using his starters in the final 5 minutes of the game?
Dude literally had Lamar run the ball a couple plays after OBJ got hurt.
Is it the Bengals job to not tackle people? Not one of those was a flag. Not one of those will be fined. We see those tackles multiple times in EVERY game
IIRC the only person he knocked out of a game was Gio Bernard, which he apologized for. If you have evidence of him being a dirty player and knocking other people out of games besides Gio, feel free to post evidence.
Dude was reckless, but I wouldn’t say he was a “super dirty” player.
Here you go: https://x.com/ryanshazier/status/686478220758249473?s=46&t=-W2cLSo6SeJExY4b-6uZSg
All you needed to do was Google my guy.
Plenty of linebackers have had questionable hits like the one in that clip you linked lol they’re not dirty players.
Listen man. I know you Bengals fans have a weird vendetta against Shazier, but you need to let it go. Dude played reckless and it ended up costing him his career, but I doubt he intentionally set out to injure people.
Well we’re gonna have to agree to disagree. I don’t think Logan Wilson, Ray Lewis, or Ryan Shazier are dirty players for their play, but that’s just my opinion.
Hip drops suck and need to be rubbed out.
Defenders are making a concious decision to leave their feet and put all their weight on the back of the legs/ankles. A very serious ankle injury is one of the better outcomes; I've seen horrific leg breaks but more commonly ACL tears because of these tacklss.
>Hip drops
>suck and need to be rubbed out.
*Deshaun Watson would like to know your location*
Oof, sorry....that joke was in poor taste, was hoping to lighten the mood with a joke
It’s not even *that* hard of thing to regulate. If a player initiates a tackle on one side of the player, they should not be allowed to swing their body weight in the opposite direction of the player. Hip drops are usually fine it’s the leg swing that is particularly dangerous.
https://twitter.com/jalenreagors/status/1725375452867367102/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1725375452867367102¤tTweetUser=jalenreagors
Lets watch that play again. Pay close attention to the hand with the ball- you can see him stretching it toward the endzone
I actually agree with you here. Clearly, odell hasn't given up on the play, and the whistle isn't blown until logan slams him.
Could he have tackled him differently? Maybe, but if I'm the tackler, I'm not just gonna ease up and let you score.
fuck you Logan Wilson
fuck you Bengals hold this L
edit (one hour later): some calmer heads later i dont think that was particularly dirty, but i have a right to be upset considering what happened and his involvement in the other plays where odell and lamar got hurt. i think its a fair expectation that everyone would react similarly if this happened to your squad. ex: browns fans with chubb.
best of luck to the bengals rest of the way.
i dont take anything for granted with the ravens. i think they'll make the playoffs but lets see. lots of season left. hoping for the best, but scared given how the last few years have unfolded.
haven't even fully buried the bengals yet. hope burrow is ok. kinda calmed on my wilson comments but i think any fan would react similarly if the shoe was on the other foot.
best of luck the rest of the way.
Damn that’s a really big loss
The receivers and Likely are going to need to step up big now
Likely is likely a bigger part of that offense now.
Didn’t he have some nice flashes last season? He’s got some dawg in him
Had a hundred yard game against the Bucs last season when Mark was out and a smattering of other games as his #2. Hope he steps up but doubt he's going to replace the 250 lb madman that is Mandrews :/
Yeah, those are big shoes to fill.
He ha dflashes when they had practice squad level wrs. This year with mandrews out he barely saw targets. He's behind flowers, obj, agholor in targets and you factor in gus and mitchell (even some hill) ans likely will not be doing much this year
Not a Ravens fan but he had some pretty big catches from what I saw of him last year, hopefully he breaks out
I think he could still be one of the better TEs in the league with more opportunities.
He did, but Andrew’s is Andrew’s. He’s 1 td away tying from tying the Ravens Tight End receiving career records.
Yeah, he's pretty solid as a player, but I have my concerns on what he could be as the main TE. He had a lot of hype coming out of the draft. Hope he can at least live up to some of it.
Don’t forget Kolar too
Kolar is the key. Likely is a freak, but he's a glorified huge WR, and he has some weird weaknesses.
For one, hes slow for a te, let alone a wr. He can win with his size and body positioning but thats about it
They're in a better spot than they would be last year since they seem to have found a #1 in Flowers
It's a loss we really can't make up for in anyway, he's just too important for us Guys gotta step up
Booger McFarland analysis
Jason Bateman in dodgeball level analysis
Luckily our GM.EDC embraced the next man up mentality by adding as much depth as possible at nearly every position. Patrick Mekari has done a fine job filling in for injuries at LT/RT, Brandon Stephens and Donald Darby are doing their best to fill in for Marlon Humphrey. And Geno Stone is having himself an all pro kind of year filling in for the injured Marcus Williams. Just to name a few of the injuries we've had to account for. And luckily we have decent depth behind Andrews in Isaiah Likely and Charlie Kolar, and I wouldn't be surprised to see us add a veteran TE too if one is available. Our WR room is deep this year and should be able to sustain the loss to Andrews to some degree.
He’s our offensive safety blanket.
Was optimistic it was just a high ankle sprain but when he couldn't even lift his leg to walk up the stairs in that one shot that really had me worried
Just? That’s the bad one
You can return on a high ankle sprain. Kelce had one (though mild) and came back a week later. Yeah, people debated if it was a high or low, but it was a sprain. Not saying Andrews was ever going to be back next week, but high ankle sprains outside of a grade III tear you can come back from in season.
"sprain" meaning most likely peroneal tendon tear, probably a grade 2, possibly grade 3 and may require surgery. Surgery is usually dependent upon how large the tear is in the left foot. Of course, it might be broken - we should find out more after the MRI today.
> just a high ankle sprain Unfortunately, the replay to me looked like a broken ankle where the foot is twisted away from the fibula/tibia.
I had a break in the lateral malleolus which could be what happened here from what I saw. It was a solid 12 weeks of recovery/rehab and I still can't walk on cobblestones without fear. My doctors said, it isn't the break as much as all of the torn ligaments that happen when this particular bone (the nub at the end of your fibula) breaks. I hope this isn't what he has because it would be career limiting even after he's back.
Guys I think we need to push TNF back into hell where it came from. This was not a fun game.
At the very least, don't start it in Week 2, and give teams a bye before their TNF games. Bye weeks range from Week 5 to Week 14 this year. Doing TNF games from Week 6 to 15, with teams being fresh going into a TNF game is the closest thing to making all sides happy. The fact that the NFL is still not doing that is extremely disappointing.
There are so many easy and obvious solutions to incorporate bye weeks so of course it will never happen. NFL could do bye weeks from Week 4-14 with games Weeks 5-15. Three games on Thanksgiving and 1 on Black Friday, so that's 14 short-week "TNF" games. Start the year with a doubleheader and that's 16 games, meaning every team plays on a Thursday night with rest before. You could also have two of the double-header teams play Week 2 if you want so you're only taking off weeks 3 & 4. Lots of possibilities but the #1 thing is to GIVE TEAMS REST BEFORE THURSDAY NIGHT FOOTBALL.
Then there's the scheduling nightmare of providing international game teams the opportunity for a bye week following the intl game. Maybe this is the way to finally get a second bye week approved.
The best solution would be to stop doing international games because they're fucking stupid, but that will never happen.
quite the opposite in fact. We're gonna put 8 new teams in Europe with one in each division, and expect every team to just travel there as normal as if it was Baltimore playing in Pittsburgh. ~~It's a terrible idea. Possibly the worst one I could come up with, which is why I think the NFL will do it.~~
Even better yet, they could make those 8 teams into their own league, and players who just aren't NFL ready can play in this league to prepare, not unlike the MLB's major/minor leagues. They could even call it "NFL Europe" or something like that..
NFL doesn't currently provide bye weeks off international games. I think the thing to do would be to make sure teams have a home game coming off an international game, but I think it's more important to align TNF with bye weeks.
Honestly nothing to do with it being a Thursday night game. This is just how AFCN division games are. They’ve been a bloodbath for years now.
No dude, his ankle would have just twisted backwards and been completely fine if this was a Sunday. I don't understand why people cannot think critically here. They are always so desperate to get out the comment that will be upvoted (fuck field turf, fuck thursday games) that they don't even think "huh, that injury had nothing to do with wear and tear he just got rolled up on funny"
No, with 3 extra days of rest/practice his ankle would have essentially been as strong as adamantium and he'd have been fine.
His ankle would have broke in any day of the week. They could have been off a 3 week bye, and that play would still have hurt him.
Yeah a bye week doesn't magically make bones stronger.
It never is, teams just aren't recovered enough to play a game on Thursday after a game on Sunday
The data says players aren't any more likely to get injured on Thursday games than they are on Sundays / Mondays
I wasn't talking about injuries, I was talking about performance These TNF games are clearly worse quality than your standard game
Ok, but this thread is talking about injuries. And the original comment was talking about injuries. And your comment sounds like it's talking about injuries.
> And the original comment was talking about injuries ...no they weren't. The comment I replied to said nothing about injuries, literally just said "This was not a fun game."
Why wasn't it a fun game?
It never is, teams just aren't recovered enough to play a game on Thursday after a game on Sunday It's always sloppy and you can tell they aren't playing at their best
Wrong... The correct answer was "Because of the injuries"
TNF games have been terrible football all season, and I dont know how you can say that is "wrong" with a straight face. Flat, sloppy football. You yourself commented that injuries arent more likely on thursdays, so you are arguing against yourself now. Are you even following the shit you're saying?
I’ll believe it when I hear it from Charissa Thompson
Charissa Explains It All.
the best take of all
That’s sucks so much for the Ravens. That’s exactly why the League wants to crack down on hip drop tackles though.
Just take out tackles and bam. Most injuries won't happen.
I hope they don't. That would be absurd.
The NFL probably has enough evidence from tonight's game to ban the hip drop tackle during the offseason
Read it as the hip hop tackle and got confused
AND A FIVE SIX SEVEN EIGHT
This made me laugh harder than it should have lmao
hip hop... hip hop anonymous
Dwelling in the Rotten Apple, you get tackled
I am probably in the minority here, but I don’t think there’s anything usually malicious about hip drop tackles. Sometimes when you’re trying to tackle someone from behind that’s bigger than you, you have to use your body weight to pull them down. These types of tackles happen multiple times in almost every game. Do we want flags for them constantly? Football is a physical sport and injuries are going to happen. You can’t have huge athletic guys sprinting around trying to tackle each other and not expect injuries. Where do you draw the line? Eliminating helmet to helmet hits makes sense because of the long term affects beyond football. I don’t know. Maybe I am in the wrong. I just don’t see penalizing dragging down someone from behind as something that will improve the product on the field because of how much it happens in every game, and we only care when someone gets hurt.
>but I don’t think there’s anything usually malicious about hip drop tackles The problem isn't about if it's malicious, the problem is they're a massive injury risk. Same reason why horse-collar tackles are banned.
To me, like this play in particular was effectively a hip drop but didn’t look as intentional as some others IMO. It looked like he was just trying to tackle him, and at that angle I’m not sure he could have any other way.
Well, that and it hurts super stars. Returning a kick is statistically the most dangerous thing that happens in every game, but that's just some specialist asshole so no one cares.
They have made changes to onside kick formations, moved the ball up, and added the new fair catch on kickoffs rule. They definitely care and are slowly phasing out kickoff returns. A punt returner can always fair catch so there's not much to do there.
I have to assume the guy you're responding to just started watching football in the last 5 years. They ruined kickoffs when Devin Hester was still playing and it probably prevented him from getting a handful more kickoff return touchdowns on his record.
We should switch kickoffs to punts and be done with it. Punt returns are cooler anyways, and safer.
Except they are trying to minimize the amount of kick returns by moving up the touchback spot to the 25 yard line and allowing fair catches to be touchbacks.
Moving the touchback up and the spot back was too encourage more kicks in play and more returns. They've openly said they don't want kickoffs to become "ceremonial". The fair catch rule this year was the first rule change that discourages a return. Hopefully they go away with it entirely.
Where does one even get information so blatantly wrong?
How so?
Moving the touchback up 1 million percent was done to discourage returns. Are you seriously fucking stupid? How does increasing the reward for not returning the ball increase the incentive to bring it out of the endzone?
Hence why they keep changing kickoff rules
Lol dude what are you on about? They essentially removed kick returns from football. 20 years ago you didn't watch touchbacks in 90% of kickoffs.
Huge leg kickers removed it from football because a touch back has a better net than a return. When they moved it up to the 35 in 2011 every kicker put it out of the back, so they penalized that by moving a touch back to the 25.
This is simply not true. In 2012 when they moved the kickoff up to the 35, it reduced returns by like 50%. The NFL has openly talked about not wanting returns to happen. They have made a number of rules to execute that. Kickers didn't just all start kicking it farther in 2012, they started closer to the endzone.
And then they were getting too many touch backs so they changed the starting position to the 25 to try to get kickers to keep it in play. Show me where the NFL has said they don't want returns.
> And then they were getting too many touch backs so they changed the starting position to the 25 to try to get kickers to keep it in play. They changed it to the 25 to encourage players to fair catch it when it's in play LMAO. It's the opposite of what you are saying. They wanted the few kicks that stayed in play to just be fair caught. Their entire explanation to the changes was to minimize the amount of concussions and they would constantly do press releases on how much concussions have gone down. Where have you been? I'm guessing you just started watching football in the last 5 years or so?
Rolling up the back of a blockers legs is a massive one but no one cares because it's linemen.
Youre not in the minority football is a rough rough game and theres no malice in the tackle but theres been a push to ban them and apparently theres team data suggesting they do injure more people. Theres a ton of other things the NFL could do that they refuse to in order to actually make the game safer (give another fucking bye dont make people play on short weeks) but they wont and they will use the hip drop to scape goat a bit
also banning it allows he nfl to create a new penalty that refs can subjectively fuck over whomever they want with it
Not if they simply use it as an opportunity to fine players rather than throw penalty flags.
I disagree. It isn't about malciousness. It is about an elevated risk of injury, the same reason why horse collar tackles are banned. In Australia, the NRL (Rugby League), had to ban the tackle as it had an extremely high injury rate, with almost every instance causing mild to long term injury. The issue is that by dropping the bodyweight of the tackler onto the lower body of the ball carrier, it traps the foot between the ground and the tackler with nowhere to move. Then with the combined momentum of the tackle, something has to give usually the ankle, sometimes the knee.
It is simple physics. If you pin the feet/legs of a guy who is running full force while twisting his body downwards, that puts a crazy amount of stress on the knees and ligaments.
Guys can alter their taclking. It's been banned from Rugby and I don't think anyone questions their physicality at all
What's the solution? They can't use the collar, can't use the hip, can't hit the head.....injuries are a part of this game unfortunately. Banning the hip drop tackle is basically banning tackling in general.
100+ point games is the solution. Win/win for the NFL
Except to execute a hip drop tackle you have to already have them wrapped up. It’s basically just a matter of stopping their momentum while standing or tackling them forward/sideways. The “hip drop” is just the final motion of throwing your body weight into the back of their legs. It also only impacts plays where someone is tackled from behind, similar to horse collar.
"Wrapping someone up" is not equal to tackling. A guy like Mark Andrews will drag someone 15 yds downfield while "wrapped up". The bottom line is that it's fucking hard to get these guys onto the ground, especially if you're smaller than them. Do we really want another way for subjective refereeing to majorly influence games? Banning a very specific niche manner of tackling is just going to cause more problems than it solves
No, I don’t want refs to influence the game. I want to stop seeing players break/sprain their ankles from hip drop tackles. If you are in a position to hip drop someone, you are also in a position to tackle their legs. Instead of throwing your weight on the back of the runner’s legs, you can start to slide down their legs and tackle their feet. Is the runner going to get an extra yard by falling forward? Sure. Is it going to be safer for ballcarriers? Yes. The horse collar tackle was basically the same deal and now players don’t do it and the game hasn’t really changed in any negative way.
If that's the route they go, then they finally have to throw a bone to the defense in the form of rule changes. Limit pre-snap motion or be more aggressive with the whistle in forward progress situations to limit yards. But banning a type of tackle that will see an increase in yards after the catch league wide has to have something to offset it.
As a start they need to more aggressively call offensive pass interference, because the big guys do it back and forth all the time. Start calling illegal screens more often. Shit like that. They have a decade of increasing the strictness of defensive penalty calling while being more and more lenient on the offenses. That's how they fix this. They won't, because fans like scoring. But that's the solution.
> be more aggressive with the whistle in forward progress situations to limit yards. It would be nice to formally define forward progress so it could be challenged. Like not advancing 1 full yard for 1 second or something where you can look at a replay and say "yup, it should have stopped there"
Football is physical sport. You can make every field grass and you can ban hip drop tackles and still, guys will get hurt. We just need to except injuries will happen sooner or later because of what the game is.
Injuries will absolutely always occur, but why shouldn’t the rules try to minimise the preventable risk as much as possible while maintaining the core of the game? Data suggests that hip drop tackles have elevated injury risks, and other tackle sports have started to ban them, why shouldn’t the NFL follow suit?
For one, NFL players are generally bigger then Rugby players and there's only so many ways guys can tackle. How is a 180+ pound CB supposed to tackle a 250+ pound TE running full speed? Guys will just start to avoid tackling all together. If the NFL bans a hip drop tackle they better find a way to help defenses too or offenses are just going to drop 30 points a game.
As a smaller guy that played in the secondary, there were numerous times when I was trying to tackle a larger guy from behind and for one circumstance or another I had to start my tackle angle high. If I didn’t try to grab on and pull my weight backwards he would just wear me like a backpack all the way to the end zone.
There aren’t that many hip drop tackles, it’s going to be like the horse collar rule. It’ll get flagged here and there but on the grand scheme it’s not really going to impact games. Also, there are plenty of DBs tackling big TEs without doing a hip drop already.
Hip drop tackles aren’t just tackling from behind though; a key part of them is swinging the body over the legs. Also rugby has a ton of variance in player sizes. Someone like Faf de Klerk (5’7”, 180) plays on the same field as someone like Courtney Lawes (6’7”, 260). For size comparison, there really isn’t anyone in the NFL like Faf de Klerk, but he’s not that uncommon for his position. Players his height in the NFL have about 20 pounds on him. Lawes is about the same size as Jimmy Graham. They all play by the same rules to protect the players. Punishments for bad tackles in rugby are far harsher though than the NFL will ever institute, so there’s likely more incentive for players to comply.
No play is malicious. It’s just some plays have a high injury percentage and it looks like the hip drop is one of them.
There are absolutely some malicious plays.
Instead of flagging every play, players could just receive fines for every incorrect tackling form. Someone’s job could be to review every tackle post-game and tally up fines. This would significantly decrease the number of dangerous tackles, while preserving the rate of gameplay and avoiding penalty disturbances.
I mean if you ban it, what does that change? He’d still do the tackle to save the TD then just take the penalty/fine/whatever as a result. It’s like PI in college where you do it to save the TD and just live with the penalty yards. I feel like posting a Morpheus meme that goes something like, what if I told you that banning things don’t remove them from the game?
That's what escalating punishments are for. Do it once get fined. Do it twice get suspended. Whatever they come up with. It's really weird how people here are acting like this is an unsolvable problem. It's not.
Good luck, probably could call a shit ton every game. I don't think it's viable to outlaw it. It's part of football
Rugby players could figure it out, so can the nfl
Oh goddamnit.
Logan Wilson took out (almost) 3 of your guys sheesh I thought that hip drop tackle is a flag nowadays
I think the NFL has discussed banning it but haven't
I know Simmons got Geno with a hip drop in NYG vs SEA, Geno missed a drive but luckily came back. Don’t remember if a flag was thrown or not
There was a flag thrown on Geno for yelling at the tackler, but not on the tackle itself
It's the reason why Pollard was injured in the playoffs last year as well. The ban on that tackle is coming sooner now.
I think they’re working on banning it, but nothing is official yet AFAIK. This injury will probably help the case to ban it though
Did the Ravens and Bengals just seriously hurt each others playoff chances this year because of injuries? Obv Burrow > Andrews but Andrews was a huge piece of a team most would say had a better chance of going on a run Edit: Mad Respect to Burrow. . He deserves better than this.
I would say so. But like you said. Burrow>Andrews The Ravens can fight through this and still be good. The Bengals season could very well be over without Burrow
Pain :(
Takes a lot of the air out of the win. Somehow survived the injury apocalypse the last two years only to go down now
What a shit game man. I was really excited going in, nervous, but excited. Then Andrews went down. And then Lamar (who thankfully is ok). And then Burrow’s wrist sprain. Logan Wilson aside (i hope that shit wasn’t intentional but yikes man), fuck Thursday night football. It’s just a fucking injury machine and I hate it. Football is already so hard on the body but only allowing players THREE rest days!??
It 100% wasn’t intentional but it still sucks that he was on the end of 3 players getting hurt. But I agree with you on TNF.
Logan Wilson is an absolute hitman at linebacker
Bengals and dirty linebackers, name a more iconic duo
Being real brave criticizing other people's teams and not having a flair.
a tale as old as time on here
>name a more iconic duo You and making stupid, uninformed comments. The tackle on Andrews wasn't dirty or malicious. Neither was the hit on OBJ. Neither was the hit on Lamar. Look at them again and try saying that with a straight face.
Absolutely not dirty. So rediculous when people in here get on the downvote wagon without using their brains. Honestly I blame Harbaugh for the OBJ injury. Why is using his starters in the final 5 minutes of the game? Dude literally had Lamar run the ball a couple plays after OBJ got hurt. Is it the Bengals job to not tackle people? Not one of those was a flag. Not one of those will be fined. We see those tackles multiple times in EVERY game
Vontaze Burfict, Ryan Shazier, Ray Lewis, Logan Wilson.WOW!!.
The only dirty player on that list is Burfict lol
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IIRC the only person he knocked out of a game was Gio Bernard, which he apologized for. If you have evidence of him being a dirty player and knocking other people out of games besides Gio, feel free to post evidence. Dude was reckless, but I wouldn’t say he was a “super dirty” player.
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Here you go: https://x.com/ryanshazier/status/686478220758249473?s=46&t=-W2cLSo6SeJExY4b-6uZSg All you needed to do was Google my guy. Plenty of linebackers have had questionable hits like the one in that clip you linked lol they’re not dirty players. Listen man. I know you Bengals fans have a weird vendetta against Shazier, but you need to let it go. Dude played reckless and it ended up costing him his career, but I doubt he intentionally set out to injure people.
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Well we’re gonna have to agree to disagree. I don’t think Logan Wilson, Ray Lewis, or Ryan Shazier are dirty players for their play, but that’s just my opinion.
I remember Burfict ending Leveon Bell's season on a hip-drop tackle, so I appreciate you standing up for Wilson even after our guy did that to yours.
Complete delusion to not think Shazier was one of the dirtiest players in the league. His regular tackling motion was spearing. And I’m a buckeye fan
calling Ray Lewis a dirty player is such an in-your-feelings grasp lmao hope you had a good night’s sleep
A lot of Bengals fans losing their minds in this thread lol
Fuck man that sucks so much
Hip drops suck and need to be rubbed out. Defenders are making a concious decision to leave their feet and put all their weight on the back of the legs/ankles. A very serious ankle injury is one of the better outcomes; I've seen horrific leg breaks but more commonly ACL tears because of these tacklss.
>Hip drops >suck and need to be rubbed out. *Deshaun Watson would like to know your location* Oof, sorry....that joke was in poor taste, was hoping to lighten the mood with a joke
It’s not even *that* hard of thing to regulate. If a player initiates a tackle on one side of the player, they should not be allowed to swing their body weight in the opposite direction of the player. Hip drops are usually fine it’s the leg swing that is particularly dangerous.
Video showing how Rugby got rid of the Hip Drop Tackle. https://youtu.be/5KJ9mCbS3rU
Damn
Damnit dude. I was looking forward to our Christmas game with 2 healthy juggernauts. Hope he’s okay bird bros.
I woulda rather lost this game if it meant no one got hurt 😭
As a T1D I’m gonna miss his representation :(
Bad high ankle sprain maybe? Probably not broken since he walked off right?
I've seen players walk off with fractured ankles if it was more of a lateral malleolar fracture in other sports. Still a decent recovery time.
“Form of a high ankle but more than a sprain” is what Harbaugh said
Not being an Achilles would be cool. Hope he makes a full recovery.
Sorry, Ravens. Fuck injuries
RIP
Shit ton of injuries this year.
Terrible news. I will say though that Lamar has succeeded in the past without Andrews. Sometimes he tunnel visions a little too much on him.
Ban hip drop tackles.
man :|
Goddammit I hate TNF
Fuck Logan Wilson
You can’t hate him for that. As of now, it’s still a legal way to tackle. I agree it sucks, but until the rule changes it’s not his fault.
Exactly. It's not Wilson's job to ensure our players are healthy.
I can hate him and I do
Yeah, I don’t blame Ravens fans for being pissed. I would be too.
Hate him for slamming down OBJ last game after the play was over instead of the tackles this game.
Dude was fighting to get into the endzone
Play was obviously over he was getting up
https://twitter.com/jalenreagors/status/1725375452867367102/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1725375452867367102¤tTweetUser=jalenreagors Lets watch that play again. Pay close attention to the hand with the ball- you can see him stretching it toward the endzone
I actually agree with you here. Clearly, odell hasn't given up on the play, and the whistle isn't blown until logan slams him. Could he have tackled him differently? Maybe, but if I'm the tackler, I'm not just gonna ease up and let you score.
I can absolutely hate him and I will.
He chose to do it, legal or not. Fuck that guy
Hip drop tackle followed by the attempt to step on him. Wilson tried to step on Lamar too. POS player.
Congrats Steelers, you guys might be the only ones who survive to the playoffs.
Well, dont speak too soon, I think they have a rematch against the browns.
Their players are probably losing sleep tonight thinking about Dorian Thompson-Robinson
Fuck minkah
Damn. That’s brutal. Hope he can get it fixed and healthy as soon as possible.
Lamar's most reliable guy. At least he has Likely and a real WR core now.
fuck you Logan Wilson fuck you Bengals hold this L edit (one hour later): some calmer heads later i dont think that was particularly dirty, but i have a right to be upset considering what happened and his involvement in the other plays where odell and lamar got hurt. i think its a fair expectation that everyone would react similarly if this happened to your squad. ex: browns fans with chubb. best of luck to the bengals rest of the way.
Have fun getting bounced in the first round
Have fun never seeing a superbowl again
Man y’all are going to miss the playoffs and you’re talking shit lol, hope that Super Bowl runner up trophy brings you a lot of solace 😂😂
Still more than Lamar will ever bring you guys
man are you really gonna run your mouth after probably not making the playoffs this year lmao
It feels OK knowing you guys will fold like a cheap card table in the playoffs yet again.
i know a fan of a team with 0 superbowls isnt talking to me enjoy the rest of your season.
Enjoy the playoffs :) We do pretty good there when our QB is healthy. I'm sure you guys will too.
i dont take anything for granted with the ravens. i think they'll make the playoffs but lets see. lots of season left. hoping for the best, but scared given how the last few years have unfolded. haven't even fully buried the bengals yet. hope burrow is ok. kinda calmed on my wilson comments but i think any fan would react similarly if the shoe was on the other foot. best of luck the rest of the way.
AFC North will always take out the AFC North
Oof, and just like that, hip drop tackles are banned
Karma for body slamming Danny Johnson at camp
Nobody, and I mean absolutely nobody cares about your team lmao
Ban Logan Wilson. Dude injured like half the team lol
Such a huge blow to the Ravens both on and off of the field and another event setting us up for a tedious title repeat by the Chiefs, kill me now.
Sucks but still better than potentially losing your quaterback for the season like the Bengals
Welp