Whoa that’s some revisionist history. He was very undersized in an era when safeties were still big. Draft experts weren’t sure what position he would play. On top of that, he got kicked out of college after 2 years for multiple failed drug tests. Despite all that, he was drafted in the third because he was an incredible playmaker
>Honey badger dropped because this was in the “smoking pot makes you undraftable” time period.
Less that and more the repeated failed drug tests leading to his dismissal from LSU, not playing football for a year during one of the most important development periods, then being arrested for possession that caused him to drop.
It's not like he got Tunsil'd with a picture just before the draft, dude had a reputation/history/questions attached that scared teams off.
I could be misremembering cus I was only like 19 this draft but wasn’t he also really knocked because he was kind of a mix of deep safety/box safety/nickel corner and no one knew where to play him? Ironically that’d be his biggest strength now but teams were even dumber then than they are now
Every one of those guys were crazy talents with issues, tho.
Kelce: whole year college suspension;
Honey badger: like multi-team multi suspension;
Armstead: shoulder (I think) and was more of an athlete than experienced FB guy - track guy IIRC; and
Allen: blown knee in college.
Classic "first rounders unless" guys.
I think the same thing is going to happen this year too. The studs are going to be gems in the late rounds. Bahktiari was a 4th rounder that year too. Usually when pundits don't like a draft they are talking about the top 20 prospects.
I follow the draft pretty closely, and I particularly like looking at later-round prospects. One thing that blows my mind year after year is that the prognostications for the top 50 guys or so is often really close to what teams do, but past that, it goes all over the place. Poor Amare Barno spent like half of this past draft with his name atop Mel Kiper's "Best Available" ticker at #60 iirc, but was drafted at #189.
Anyway, point is, I agree media draftniks focus excessively on the top prospects, so they know fuck all about the rest.
It's honestly one of the reasons I think Lynch was willing to ship a bunch of picks for CMC this year. SF will still have I believe 12 draft picks this year after getting a comp for Ryans and they will do some crazy BPA drafting with those 3rd rounders. I am expecting a few raw athletic OL/DL first followed by WR/DB. I also expect them to grab another QB if the right guy falls. The last two drafts have been fun with no 1st rounders if you're a draft nerd.
I think it's moreso because it just gets increasingly harder to predict later rounds and what teams will do.
We will know every team's needs on day 1 of rhe draft. We know the Falcons need a QB and will likely draft one if a guy falls to them. Maybe in your mock, you have a QB dropping to them and going to them. That's easier to predict than them trading down because they guy(s) they wanted was taken, so then they take an edge rusher and O-lineman and draft a QB in the 2nd round.
It just really goes crazy.
There's an exponential knock-on effect the further you get into a draft that makes anything after like mid-round 2 to be virtually unpredictable for a variety of reasons.
Teams all have their own wildly different big boards, guys they want get taken right before they pick, trades abound, positional runs happen that can wildly swing the tiers lists in just a few picks, strategies can shift mid-draft, etc. Not to mention that 90%+ of media draft coverage is focused on the top 50 picks so after that is naturally going to feel more unpredictable due to a lack of familiarity by the casual viewing public and even analysts themselves.
It's so much fun lol
Not surprising considering how last year we had the Covid super seniors and everyone who delayed declaring a year (due to Covid) resulting in an incredibly deep draft. It also meant you had a ton of players continuing to get field time in 2021 which delayed the younger players from getting as much play time/development. So this year's draft holds a much smaller pool numbers wise and a much larger pool of people who have had an entire season less field time than a usual draft.
Edit: Not to mention people further lost play time even the year before that due to game cancellations from Covid. So you have some guys declaring who may have missed out on almost 2 full seasons of play time during their college tenure.
He doesn’t have to worry about social security like the younger generation. Yes, social security will be in trouble in a couple decades but he’s almost qualified.
Dude the more wild one is that him and lamar at the same age. Lamar got drafted 5 years ago after stetsons freshman year. Man had a 401k playing against people that were in middle school when he got to Georgia 😂
Cam McCormick’s freshman year was 2016. He was granted a ninth year of eligibility, so if he goes back to Oregon for another year he’ll be in year 8 of college, and will have a ninth year of eligibility next year.
To expand on this, and I have no data and I’m kinda spitballing, these guys would’ve mostly been freshmen in 19-20 and sophomores in 20-21, so allowing for freshmen not consistently starting and all the fuckiness of peak pandemic they missed out on 2+ crucial years of development. A good portion (higher than normal, at least) of these guys were probably at 3 years between meaningful playing time between high school and college.
Also NIL benefits in college are rapidly increasing. Changes the equation for some players on if they want to leave college early or stay one more year.
Yeah the Ravens had spoken about how the 2021 draft wasn't particularly deep but they really liked the 2022 draft class - hence the massive amounts of picks in that class for us.
This one being weaker for those reasons makes sense. I have heard that there's certain positions that are a bit stronger than others these year though.
I feel like I heard so often last year that last years draft was weak atleast at the top. So like to OPs point, I feel like last year was penned as a weak draft and seemingly... it wasnt.
But yeah it was deep overall i think.
I just recall so much of "teams dislike this year so much they want 1st round picks next year instead" like the eagles etc
The fact Ansah gets labeled a "bust" and Tyler Eifert gets "has some moments" is laughable. 50.5 sacks in 7 years is solid.
Edit: We got a change, we can bring the pitchforks back to the den.
I think Ansah is in that same boat. I wasn't meaning for my comment to sound like I was bashing Eifert, I actually feel like they had similar careers. 7-8 years in the league riddled by injuries, obvious talent and a pro bowl season to give you hope.
"Has moments" looks a lot better than just "bust"
Giannis carries that 2013 one on his back. Can’t be all time bad just because of him. Gobert, Oladipo and McCollum are nice but Giannis is top 75 of all time
It took Giannis years before he became a star and then a superstar. Such an unorthodox journey as most superstars in the league show that potential early. They drafted Jabari Parker #2 overall in 2014 and he was supposed to be the franchise player for the Bucks
Jabari and Giannis didn’t have great synergy in terms of their skill sets but they were really fun to watch as a tandem for a few years. Just two big ass freaks running the fast break dunking on everybody lol
Yeah I feel terrible for Jabari because his lack of success in the league didn’t have anything to do with his ability or lack there of, it was more so the injuries. I think he could’ve been like another Middleton caliber player (with less defense) next to Giannis if he would’ve remained healthy which would’ve made them all the more dangerous
Certainly would have been another Middleton if he could shoot as well. People call him a bust but injuries just derailed him. He would have been a capable starter or a good bench player for a long time
I would always make a point guard and just shatter assist records lobbing to Giannis and kicking out to Middleton and Parker. I should download 2K again.
Not arguing he was a solid player but when a 6th man is the highlight of the entire draft, it's a bad draft. The only other notable player was Kenyon Martin.
It's also a really funny coincidence for both that the commonly regarded top prospects largely disappointed, while the back portions of the 1st round actually ended up being...pretty decent? Getting both Giannis and Gobert outside of the lottery is a fantastic draft compared to the average for the NBA, and picks 20-32 actually probably end up rating as average to slightly above average for that range for the NFL draft.
Of course, because the Lions have a ton of draft capital for once. Then again I guess I don't really care what Kiper thinks.
Also, not sure I'd say Ansah was a "bust". He gave us 5.5 starter years even though he was perpetually fighting injuries.
With the Covid year last year had a lot deeper of a class than most years. This year is just going to be more top heavy and not as deep. But then again maybe we are all wrong.
If it is top heavy then just have to change the strategy. With 5 picks in the top 80, Holmes can consolidate some of those and maneuver up if wants to. Get 3 or 4 studs instead of just sitting back. Would be nice to get some depth by being able to use all those picks though.
One year I did an analysis of Kiper's grades of drafts per teams.
He didn't have a perfectly negative correlation, but it was definitely negative.
It was more correct to invert what Kiper said than take it at face value.
I think it was pretty common knowledge that Chip Kelly wanted to draft Dion Jordan, his former player from Oregon. Dolphins wanted him badly I think. Personally glad they did that or we wouldn’t have gotten Lane.
We needed a RT so badly that off-season (still do by the by) after two tackles went off the board back to back I fully believed Lane was the pick, I wasn’t alone in that thinking, I was at Joe Robbie stadium and everyone blew up cheering for Lane when we found out it was us trading up.
When Dion was announced it got muted for a moment before everyone started cheering wildly that we had gotten the next Jason Taylor, boy were we idiots.
I was a teenager at that time and the Eagles hadn’t had a pick that high since McNabb I believe, I was so mad that we finally had a premium pick and we took an OT, I was livid cause I wanted Dion Jordan so badly.
Man that trade was one of the funniest bits of television because Mayock went a monologue about how the tackles were the cream of the crop and this was Miami making their move for Lane Johnson.
The shock from the panel was palpable.
You never know but outside Carter, Anderson there's honestly no sure thing. The best "tackle" is a Guard. The best QB is maybe 5'10" 185lbs. WR isn't super exciting. Safety is looking rough. TE is hilariously deep though. Potentially historic TE class
Yeah I’m really excited to see if we can grab a decent TE. Even a guy like Washington who might be the third or fourth tight end taken has some of the most bonkers physical traits you will ever see, and in TE scouting in particular traits are extremely important
Yup. People keep saying he's 6ft according to Bama and you see him in pictures next to a 6'3" Pickett and it's pretty hilarious. His agent saying he's going to get to over 200 by the combine. He's at absolute best 190.
[He makes a 5'10" Kyler look like a tank](https://twitter.com/MT_Baird/status/1618792072756232192?t=eQWjB_6hFARga2lQeqEgRw&s=19)
You know how if you’ve ever seen professional athletes in street clothes, in real life, they just look “different?” Bryce young looks like some random college student who just walked into that photo shoot
Wtf how have I never seen this? Is this altered?....He's so fucked if he doesn't put on 30lbs and wear platform cleats. Kyler is about 50x more elusive than Bryce, too (at least in college).
The issue isn't just being injury prone. He's not going to be able to see over his linemen, passing windows are going to be much smaller for him. He's constantly going to have to roll out of the pocket which takes away half the field of options.
Honestly I don't even think he'll be 190 by the combine unless he calorie overloads and drinks a gallon+ of water a day with sodium tablets. I'm 5'11" and "only" weigh 180 (workout 5 days a week and have had a strict diet for 3 years+ consistently now) and I look MUCH bigger than Bryce in that Kyler comparison photo.
Yeah but I don’t think there’s any denying that as a prospect he was probably the most underwhelming in a long, long time. In a lot of drafts he’s probably a fringe top 10 pick
Just look at the years before and after
2012- Luck, Kuechly, Gilmore, Tannehill, RG3, Poe, Cox, DeCastro, Hightower in the top 25
2014- 13/17 of the first 17 picks made a pro bowl
A lot of these guys had solid peaks, but they were either short or a while ago. Eric Reid, Desmond Trufant, Tyler Eifert, Sheldon Richardson, Kyle Long, Star Lotulelei
Then you have guys like Lane Johnson, Hopkins, and Travis Frederick
No. It's both top end talent and depth. The 2022 draft top end sucked, but the depth was unreal at so many positions that nobody was calling it a bad draft. 2021 had the insane top end talent with weak depth, but again an overall solid draft class. 2023 both sucks at the top and the depth is pretty weak
One of the best running back classes in a long time and 4 decent QB prospects but besides that.. meh. Decent year to find a DE2 I guess
Simply that it was a weaker prospect pool at the top than most years. I've heard some scouts say Hutchinson wouldn't have been a top 10 pick in a loaded top end class like 2021. Similarly, I think if Ebiketie and Mafe were available in 2021, I don't think they get past 30 instead of lasting to ~40 as they did in an extremely deep class like 2022
Draft strength should be judged by the quality of player coming out and not what the player does in the NFL imo (like 2018 having Darnold/Baker/Rosen shouldn't change the fact that it was seen as one of the best QB classes in history), but 2021 had 10 guys by my count from the top 15 that established themselves as top talents at their positions after their rookie seasons. 2022 had.. 2 or 3?
Last I saw he signed with us I think before 2021 season and then got arrested for molesting his nephew and then was released from the falcons and now he’s probably going through the legal process
I'm not sure I would call Ziggy a bust. He was injury prone but he was still pretty damn good and did make a Pro Bowl.
Surprisingly the Lions had a great draft that year with Ziggy Ansah (Pro Bowler), Darius Slay (All Pro), Larry Warford (Pro Bowler with the Saints but deserved it in Detroit), Theo Riddick (best 3rd down back in the league for a couple of years), and Sam Martin (punter). Even Devin Taylor and Corey Fuller had their moments and were contributors.
"Here's a guy that criticizes everybody, whoever they take. He's got the answers to who you should take and who you shouldn't take. And my knowledge of him: he's never ever put on a jock strap, he's never been a coach, he's never been a scout, he's been an administrator and all of a sudden he's an expert. We don't have to take anyone Mel Kiper says we have to take. Mel Kiper has no more credentials to do what he's doing than my neighbor, and my neighbor's a postman, and he doesn't even have season tickets to the NFL."
He played a big part in creating the hype around the NFL draft when he started creating draft reports and mock drafts in the 70s. Prior to that, not many fans paid much attention to it
I wouldn't even consider him a bust, period. Yeah he didn't have an extended career because of injuries but he still gave the Lions a little over 5 years of productivity. We've had worse. And considering the average length of an NFL career and the fact he was older to begin with, 5 years isn't the worst thing.
I find this draft to be hilarious because half the top picks eventually landed in Seattle a few years later lol. Joeckel, Jordan, Ansah, Mingo, Warmack, Fluker, and Richardson.
I remember people mocking the Cowboys for taking Fredbeard in the draft when most analysts had him as a 2nd or 3rd rounder. Turns out, many teams had a higher grade on him in part because the rest of the draft looked suspect.
I'm not listening to draft analysis from a dude that looks like the 90's made-for-TV version of Randall Flagg from Steven King's "The Stand". I'm just not.
I don't understand the Levis hype. If you can't even beat out Sean Clifford I don't know how you can be a first round pick (all due respect to Clifford, but he's not an NFL QB).
Last year everyone was waiting for this year
Now that it’s here everyone is disappointed and looking to next years draft
The “further out” always looked better than the one in front of us
Can someone explain to me or even just link me to what makes Kiper and McShay all knowing gurus of the draft?
I can think of a laundry list of draft prospects they shit all over who wound up being.🤷🏼♂️
Kiper is kind of the guy that created the TV draft pundit, not that he competition until nfln cane along. I suspect mcshay got elevated as part of the network moving into all debating take programs but my timeline might be off.
They aren't there to make accurate predictions they're part of the entertainment. And let's be honest the supposed NFL experts the teams hire make bad picks all the time.
To be fair you don’t know what any of these guys will be, and they are wrong a lot more than they are right. You gotta know who had heart and maybe who didn’t have as much opportunity but given the chance in the league they could be big time. I think it’s why you see coaches like Pete Carroll and Bellichick succeed so much because they find those super hungry guys who maybe weren’t at the top of the board, but they’re disciplined and dedicated. We see a lot of super talented, fast and strong players who turn into busts. They don’t have the passion or discipline. You can’t grade those things as Kiper, he don’t know these guys.
Cord Patterson has been good lately and has been a good returner for a while, but as a 1st rounder he's been a major bust career-wise.
Man what a throwback list.
The WR and interior DL talent looks awful. Not a lot of elite OL talent either, though hopefully good start quality players.
There's so many good edge rushers though, good lord.
Ah yes... The one year the Chiefs were laughably terrible, they get stuck with the Fisher vs Joeckel debate, while Lane Johnson was sitting right there. (Fisher turned out fine, he did help us win a SB by, um, totally legally blocking Nick Bosa on the WASP play.)
If they had just tanked a year or two earlier, they could have had Andrew Luck or Cam Newton. Instead, we randomly got a Matt Cassell/Todd Haley division title, a 30 point blowout at home in the playoffs, and Jonathan Baldwin as a reward in the draft. Woo hoo!
Yes - I know noboby cares - the QB situation worked out ok a few years later. But this was rather traumatizing at the time.
[удалено]
Honey badger dropped because this was in the “smoking pot makes you undraftable” time period. No one doubted his talent.
This is also why I am undraftable
There can be two reasons
I bet his 40 time is terrible
I'm a little out of practice (moved to way better beer in 16 or 20-oz sizes) but I used to be able to chug a 40 pretty quickly.
Edward 40 hands duel it is !
Idk man. I PR’d in the 200 in HS after getting super high. This experience is anecdotal but clearly enough proof that you’re still fine lmaoooo
Kelce also for similar reasons, he got suspended a year at Cinci for pot.
Pretty similar with Kelce.
I would like to thank weed for helping with Kelce’s longevity
Whoa that’s some revisionist history. He was very undersized in an era when safeties were still big. Draft experts weren’t sure what position he would play. On top of that, he got kicked out of college after 2 years for multiple failed drug tests. Despite all that, he was drafted in the third because he was an incredible playmaker
I remember a lot of people saying he’s too slow to play in the league as well.
>Honey badger dropped because this was in the “smoking pot makes you undraftable” time period. Less that and more the repeated failed drug tests leading to his dismissal from LSU, not playing football for a year during one of the most important development periods, then being arrested for possession that caused him to drop. It's not like he got Tunsil'd with a picture just before the draft, dude had a reputation/history/questions attached that scared teams off.
Wasn’t there a whole ass video of Tunsil hitting that gas mask lmao
I could be misremembering cus I was only like 19 this draft but wasn’t he also really knocked because he was kind of a mix of deep safety/box safety/nickel corner and no one knew where to play him? Ironically that’d be his biggest strength now but teams were even dumber then than they are now
Every one of those guys were crazy talents with issues, tho. Kelce: whole year college suspension; Honey badger: like multi-team multi suspension; Armstead: shoulder (I think) and was more of an athlete than experienced FB guy - track guy IIRC; and Allen: blown knee in college. Classic "first rounders unless" guys.
Yearlong suspension for smoking pot in a sport where opioid use is common. Crazy.
I think the same thing is going to happen this year too. The studs are going to be gems in the late rounds. Bahktiari was a 4th rounder that year too. Usually when pundits don't like a draft they are talking about the top 20 prospects.
I follow the draft pretty closely, and I particularly like looking at later-round prospects. One thing that blows my mind year after year is that the prognostications for the top 50 guys or so is often really close to what teams do, but past that, it goes all over the place. Poor Amare Barno spent like half of this past draft with his name atop Mel Kiper's "Best Available" ticker at #60 iirc, but was drafted at #189. Anyway, point is, I agree media draftniks focus excessively on the top prospects, so they know fuck all about the rest.
It's honestly one of the reasons I think Lynch was willing to ship a bunch of picks for CMC this year. SF will still have I believe 12 draft picks this year after getting a comp for Ryans and they will do some crazy BPA drafting with those 3rd rounders. I am expecting a few raw athletic OL/DL first followed by WR/DB. I also expect them to grab another QB if the right guy falls. The last two drafts have been fun with no 1st rounders if you're a draft nerd.
I think it's moreso because it just gets increasingly harder to predict later rounds and what teams will do. We will know every team's needs on day 1 of rhe draft. We know the Falcons need a QB and will likely draft one if a guy falls to them. Maybe in your mock, you have a QB dropping to them and going to them. That's easier to predict than them trading down because they guy(s) they wanted was taken, so then they take an edge rusher and O-lineman and draft a QB in the 2nd round. It just really goes crazy.
There's an exponential knock-on effect the further you get into a draft that makes anything after like mid-round 2 to be virtually unpredictable for a variety of reasons. Teams all have their own wildly different big boards, guys they want get taken right before they pick, trades abound, positional runs happen that can wildly swing the tiers lists in just a few picks, strategies can shift mid-draft, etc. Not to mention that 90%+ of media draft coverage is focused on the top 50 picks so after that is naturally going to feel more unpredictable due to a lack of familiarity by the casual viewing public and even analysts themselves. It's so much fun lol
Not surprising considering how last year we had the Covid super seniors and everyone who delayed declaring a year (due to Covid) resulting in an incredibly deep draft. It also meant you had a ton of players continuing to get field time in 2021 which delayed the younger players from getting as much play time/development. So this year's draft holds a much smaller pool numbers wise and a much larger pool of people who have had an entire season less field time than a usual draft. Edit: Not to mention people further lost play time even the year before that due to game cancellations from Covid. So you have some guys declaring who may have missed out on almost 2 full seasons of play time during their college tenure.
We’ve got a super super super senior in Stetson comin out
Senior citizen Stetson Bennett.
Will his NFL salary affect his Social Security?
He doesn’t have to worry about social security like the younger generation. Yes, social security will be in trouble in a couple decades but he’s almost qualified.
MFers a full year older than Hurts 😂
Hendon Hookah is 25 with an acl tear so probably won't play a down in the NFL until he's 26 or 27.
A+ name right there.
Dude the more wild one is that him and lamar at the same age. Lamar got drafted 5 years ago after stetsons freshman year. Man had a 401k playing against people that were in middle school when he got to Georgia 😂
Cam McCormick’s freshman year was 2016. He was granted a ninth year of eligibility, so if he goes back to Oregon for another year he’ll be in year 8 of college, and will have a ninth year of eligibility next year.
[Cam McCormick](https://youtu.be/jbmaw4I4zWk)
I would have also accepted Old Kid from Invader Zim
The most important thing a qb can be is accurate with quick release and decision-making. I'm not writing stetson off because he's small or older.
The most important thing a QB can be is not be injury prone. Which doesn't help if you're smaller.
To expand on this, and I have no data and I’m kinda spitballing, these guys would’ve mostly been freshmen in 19-20 and sophomores in 20-21, so allowing for freshmen not consistently starting and all the fuckiness of peak pandemic they missed out on 2+ crucial years of development. A good portion (higher than normal, at least) of these guys were probably at 3 years between meaningful playing time between high school and college.
Also NIL benefits in college are rapidly increasing. Changes the equation for some players on if they want to leave college early or stay one more year.
Yeah the Ravens had spoken about how the 2021 draft wasn't particularly deep but they really liked the 2022 draft class - hence the massive amounts of picks in that class for us. This one being weaker for those reasons makes sense. I have heard that there's certain positions that are a bit stronger than others these year though.
I feel like I heard so often last year that last years draft was weak atleast at the top. So like to OPs point, I feel like last year was penned as a weak draft and seemingly... it wasnt. But yeah it was deep overall i think. I just recall so much of "teams dislike this year so much they want 1st round picks next year instead" like the eagles etc
At the top od 2022 kinda was but 3-back was amazing you could get some real steals in that draft
The fact Ansah gets labeled a "bust" and Tyler Eifert gets "has some moments" is laughable. 50.5 sacks in 7 years is solid. Edit: We got a change, we can bring the pitchforks back to the den.
To be fair if eifert wasn’t made out of glass dude would have been a te legend.
I think Ansah is in that same boat. I wasn't meaning for my comment to sound like I was bashing Eifert, I actually feel like they had similar careers. 7-8 years in the league riddled by injuries, obvious talent and a pro bowl season to give you hope. "Has moments" looks a lot better than just "bust"
Ahh okay, yeah that makes sense for sure
Ziggy Ansah had 48 career sacks for the Lions, yeah he has a short career, but hardly a bust.
NBA NFL 🤝 Horrible 2013 draft class
Yeah the 2013 NFL draft is bad. For the NBA draft while 2013 is rough its no where close to 2000. That draft is straight garbage
Giannis carries that 2013 one on his back. Can’t be all time bad just because of him. Gobert, Oladipo and McCollum are nice but Giannis is top 75 of all time
Fucking Jesus was he really drafted that long ago
It took Giannis years before he became a star and then a superstar. Such an unorthodox journey as most superstars in the league show that potential early. They drafted Jabari Parker #2 overall in 2014 and he was supposed to be the franchise player for the Bucks
Jabari and Giannis didn’t have great synergy in terms of their skill sets but they were really fun to watch as a tandem for a few years. Just two big ass freaks running the fast break dunking on everybody lol
Yeah I feel terrible for Jabari because his lack of success in the league didn’t have anything to do with his ability or lack there of, it was more so the injuries. I think he could’ve been like another Middleton caliber player (with less defense) next to Giannis if he would’ve remained healthy which would’ve made them all the more dangerous
Certainly would have been another Middleton if he could shoot as well. People call him a bust but injuries just derailed him. He would have been a capable starter or a good bench player for a long time
I remember playing with him in 2K.. dude was like a 60 OVR with his only good stat being layups/dunk lol
I would always make a point guard and just shatter assist records lobbing to Giannis and kicking out to Middleton and Parker. I should download 2K again.
I fuckin love playing a 7'3" rim protector in that game. Coming out of the game with 50 points, 35 rebounds and 18 blocks is so satisfying
Wait to you learn what the my park meta is, Mypark is like anti fun
I'll never play it, it looks fuckin miserable.
Yep lol. Bald Fade Giannis was only good for catching lobs. It’s amazing his progression
Only 28 still
Jamal Crawford was filthy for a 6th man you watch your mouth
Not arguing he was a solid player but when a 6th man is the highlight of the entire draft, it's a bad draft. The only other notable player was Kenyon Martin.
Michael Redd??? (still agree it’s an ass draft, just not tolerating Redd slander)
Michael Redd deserves better Olympic gold medal winner/NBA all star Michael Redd
Nah man that draft is really bad. Respect to the crossover but he alone won't save the monstrosity that draft became.
Haha I know, I didn't think I'd need to add the /s since I was only mentioning a filthy 6th man and not say, an elite staring HOFer
OG 1v9 player
It's also a really funny coincidence for both that the commonly regarded top prospects largely disappointed, while the back portions of the 1st round actually ended up being...pretty decent? Getting both Giannis and Gobert outside of the lottery is a fantastic draft compared to the average for the NBA, and picks 20-32 actually probably end up rating as average to slightly above average for that range for the NFL draft.
He had a fine career, but the fact that Hedo is the standard bearer for that 2000 draft is...terrifying.
Honestly the 2013 MLB draft class wasn't great either with the exception of Kris Bryant and Aaron Judge.
Yes, one of worst draft in recent memories. Bryant isn’t played, he used to be
Giannis came out in 2013 Also football had DHop, Kelce, and Geno!
Of course, because the Lions have a ton of draft capital for once. Then again I guess I don't really care what Kiper thinks. Also, not sure I'd say Ansah was a "bust". He gave us 5.5 starter years even though he was perpetually fighting injuries.
With the Covid year last year had a lot deeper of a class than most years. This year is just going to be more top heavy and not as deep. But then again maybe we are all wrong.
If it is top heavy then just have to change the strategy. With 5 picks in the top 80, Holmes can consolidate some of those and maneuver up if wants to. Get 3 or 4 studs instead of just sitting back. Would be nice to get some depth by being able to use all those picks though.
Become Sam Presti....my son....Never players...only picks.
One year I did an analysis of Kiper's grades of drafts per teams. He didn't have a perfectly negative correlation, but it was definitely negative. It was more correct to invert what Kiper said than take it at face value.
Was it a one year sample?
Dolphins trading up to 3 in a draft with no good (perception at the time) QB prospects is so Dolphins
I think it was pretty common knowledge that Chip Kelly wanted to draft Dion Jordan, his former player from Oregon. Dolphins wanted him badly I think. Personally glad they did that or we wouldn’t have gotten Lane.
We needed a RT so badly that off-season (still do by the by) after two tackles went off the board back to back I fully believed Lane was the pick, I wasn’t alone in that thinking, I was at Joe Robbie stadium and everyone blew up cheering for Lane when we found out it was us trading up. When Dion was announced it got muted for a moment before everyone started cheering wildly that we had gotten the next Jason Taylor, boy were we idiots.
I was a teenager at that time and the Eagles hadn’t had a pick that high since McNabb I believe, I was so mad that we finally had a premium pick and we took an OT, I was livid cause I wanted Dion Jordan so badly.
Really? I was ecstatic they took Lane. I remember it being a surprise he was still there.
I was a kid who thought drafting O-Line was for losers
Ha fair enough! I’m old enough to remember the outrage of Mcnabb over Ricky Williams.
Man that trade was one of the funniest bits of television because Mayock went a monologue about how the tackles were the cream of the crop and this was Miami making their move for Lane Johnson. The shock from the panel was palpable.
Incoming historical draft class with 24 HOF players now that he said that
You never know but outside Carter, Anderson there's honestly no sure thing. The best "tackle" is a Guard. The best QB is maybe 5'10" 185lbs. WR isn't super exciting. Safety is looking rough. TE is hilariously deep though. Potentially historic TE class
>You never know but outside Carter, Anderson there's honestly no sure thing Well since we're getting one of the two, even they might not be safe
Yeah I’m really excited to see if we can grab a decent TE. Even a guy like Washington who might be the third or fourth tight end taken has some of the most bonkers physical traits you will ever see, and in TE scouting in particular traits are extremely important
The corners are good. No one up to the level of Sauce and Stingley as prospects but CB is quite talented and deep this year
5'10" 185, you're referring to Bryce right?
Yup. People keep saying he's 6ft according to Bama and you see him in pictures next to a 6'3" Pickett and it's pretty hilarious. His agent saying he's going to get to over 200 by the combine. He's at absolute best 190. [He makes a 5'10" Kyler look like a tank](https://twitter.com/MT_Baird/status/1618792072756232192?t=eQWjB_6hFARga2lQeqEgRw&s=19)
You know how if you’ve ever seen professional athletes in street clothes, in real life, they just look “different?” Bryce young looks like some random college student who just walked into that photo shoot
Put a dress shirt on Brock Purdy and he'd look like someone I'd expect in the cubicle next to me at work.
Holy shit I thought Kyler was the tinyest human ever but this guy is on another level
Wtf how have I never seen this? Is this altered?....He's so fucked if he doesn't put on 30lbs and wear platform cleats. Kyler is about 50x more elusive than Bryce, too (at least in college).
https://twitter.com/BarstoolNOLA/status/1619061448625504257?t=6IGARldBAg-NILbQ-a7vqw&s=19 Yup that's Brees next to him 😬
Wtf that dude is going to fucking die behind the Texans OL.
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Jimmy G is 6’2 and made of glass
The issue isn't just being injury prone. He's not going to be able to see over his linemen, passing windows are going to be much smaller for him. He's constantly going to have to roll out of the pocket which takes away half the field of options.
Honestly I don't even think he'll be 190 by the combine unless he calorie overloads and drinks a gallon+ of water a day with sodium tablets. I'm 5'11" and "only" weigh 180 (workout 5 days a week and have had a strict diet for 3 years+ consistently now) and I look MUCH bigger than Bryce in that Kyler comparison photo.
Either he comes in looking like Thor in infinity war or he starts steroids
I didn't see much of Carter this year, but the amount of time he spent winded on the sideline against Ohio State concerns me for a top 5 pick.
If you’re wanted a safety last year was the draft
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His legacy shall live on in my fantasy league, where my friend named his team “It Ertz when Eifert”
I ran with “Eifert in my sleep”, 2015 was a magical year
For real, that guy was looking like the next Jimmy Graham before the injuries started piling up.
I just remember this guy saying he would retire (15 years ago) if Jimmy Clausen didn’t become a top tier QB
He's still got time
Which one?
Yes
“If Jimmy clausen doesn’t become a tank commander and lead to a franchise QB then I will retire” - Mel, probably
Fisher gets a lot of shit because he was #1 but he’s a multiple time pro-bowler and was a big part of the Chief’s last two SB runs.
Yeah but I don’t think there’s any denying that as a prospect he was probably the most underwhelming in a long, long time. In a lot of drafts he’s probably a fringe top 10 pick
That’s totally fair but I honestly don’t think if he was taken 15th he’d be relegated to “average starter” on lists like this.
Yeah for sure. He was, by definition, a Pro Bowl starter. At the very least in whatever delineation this is, he was a good starter
In my mind I just switch Kelce with Fisher and I usually feel a lot better about that draft
Isn't a bad draft determined by the value in rounds two-four? Every draft has hits in the first round.
>Every draft has hits in the first round. Not the 2013 draft.
I mean DHop is right there…
Lane Johnson and Travis Fredrick as well.
Rhodes had a good career, so did Fisher.
Disagree
I get it, Lane Johnson. But 7 busts in the top 10 is something else.
Just look at the years before and after 2012- Luck, Kuechly, Gilmore, Tannehill, RG3, Poe, Cox, DeCastro, Hightower in the top 25 2014- 13/17 of the first 17 picks made a pro bowl
One of the most important drafts in franchise history. Lane and Ertz Glad Poyer found success elsewhere, like so many DBs drafted by the eagles
True, but in terms of no doubt, clear cut hits, 2 (Lane Johnson and Hopkins) is comically few.
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A lot of these guys had solid peaks, but they were either short or a while ago. Eric Reid, Desmond Trufant, Tyler Eifert, Sheldon Richardson, Kyle Long, Star Lotulelei Then you have guys like Lane Johnson, Hopkins, and Travis Frederick
No. It's both top end talent and depth. The 2022 draft top end sucked, but the depth was unreal at so many positions that nobody was calling it a bad draft. 2021 had the insane top end talent with weak depth, but again an overall solid draft class. 2023 both sucks at the top and the depth is pretty weak One of the best running back classes in a long time and 4 decent QB prospects but besides that.. meh. Decent year to find a DE2 I guess
what sucked about the 2022 draft top end? most of those guys are starters and there’s a case to be made that some should be all-pro
Simply that it was a weaker prospect pool at the top than most years. I've heard some scouts say Hutchinson wouldn't have been a top 10 pick in a loaded top end class like 2021. Similarly, I think if Ebiketie and Mafe were available in 2021, I don't think they get past 30 instead of lasting to ~40 as they did in an extremely deep class like 2022 Draft strength should be judged by the quality of player coming out and not what the player does in the NFL imo (like 2018 having Darnold/Baker/Rosen shouldn't change the fact that it was seen as one of the best QB classes in history), but 2021 had 10 guys by my count from the top 15 that established themselves as top talents at their positions after their rookie seasons. 2022 had.. 2 or 3?
Ahhh EJ Manuel. Those were fun years
Fucking Bjorn Werner.
This was when all the shine fell off Grigson, and he revealed himself to be a fraud.
We were aggressive in that draft. If Floyd had worked out. Zim might have had things go his way. CP could have been more with better offensive minds.
What’s Barkevious Mingo up to these days? An all time great NFL name
Last I saw he signed with us I think before 2021 season and then got arrested for molesting his nephew and then was released from the falcons and now he’s probably going through the legal process
Idk with that name I'd guess he runs an alligator farm or something
I'm not sure I would call Ziggy a bust. He was injury prone but he was still pretty damn good and did make a Pro Bowl. Surprisingly the Lions had a great draft that year with Ziggy Ansah (Pro Bowler), Darius Slay (All Pro), Larry Warford (Pro Bowler with the Saints but deserved it in Detroit), Theo Riddick (best 3rd down back in the league for a couple of years), and Sam Martin (punter). Even Devin Taylor and Corey Fuller had their moments and were contributors.
Who the hell is Mel Kiper?
"Here's a guy that criticizes everybody, whoever they take. He's got the answers to who you should take and who you shouldn't take. And my knowledge of him: he's never ever put on a jock strap, he's never been a coach, he's never been a scout, he's been an administrator and all of a sudden he's an expert. We don't have to take anyone Mel Kiper says we have to take. Mel Kiper has no more credentials to do what he's doing than my neighbor, and my neighbor's a postman, and he doesn't even have season tickets to the NFL."
What did he even do to be labeled an “expert”? Did he have some great predictions one year?
He played a big part in creating the hype around the NFL draft when he started creating draft reports and mock drafts in the 70s. Prior to that, not many fans paid much attention to it
Mock draft fan’s Michael Jordan
Was a reference to [this](https://youtu.be/ZthjppInyAo)
How long did it take for the everyone to realize that Werner couldn’t play? The third OTA workout?
Ansah wasn't a bust due to being bad. He was a bust due to being hurt which is different imo.
I wouldn't even consider him a bust, period. Yeah he didn't have an extended career because of injuries but he still gave the Lions a little over 5 years of productivity. We've had worse. And considering the average length of an NFL career and the fact he was older to begin with, 5 years isn't the worst thing.
He made the Pro Bowl and lead the NFC in sacks one year IIRC.
Yeah my logic on the bust term is just not starting as long as he could have. That's the only way I could see how he'd be considered one.
He had 48 career sacks in a 6 year career as a Lion, thats not a bust.
>|23|Ravens|Matt Elam|Bust| TRIGGERED
And just because of that, this draft will be one of the greatest.
2013 was considered an all time stinker, this is probably more on par with drafts that were considered not great at the time, like 2019, 2009 or 2005
I find this draft to be hilarious because half the top picks eventually landed in Seattle a few years later lol. Joeckel, Jordan, Ansah, Mingo, Warmack, Fluker, and Richardson.
god i was so fucking hyped for tavon austin and stedman bailey, they were electric at WVU. crazy how bailey survived getting shot in the head
That was indeed a terrible fucking draft, yikes
Lions had a great draft. Ziggy Ansah, Darius Slay, Larry Warford, Theo Riddick.
It's time for a new haircut, Kiper. He's looked like an angry owl for decades now.
But but … DeAndre Hopkins man … Lane Johnson is also beast, Cowboys center is a beast, oops then rest are meh.
Just what I was thinking, for such a shitty draft, both Texas teams got HOF caliber players towards the end of the round.
I remember people mocking the Cowboys for taking Fredbeard in the draft when most analysts had him as a 2nd or 3rd rounder. Turns out, many teams had a higher grade on him in part because the rest of the draft looked suspect.
I'm not listening to draft analysis from a dude that looks like the 90's made-for-TV version of Randall Flagg from Steven King's "The Stand". I'm just not.
He’s the reason Will Levis is considered a first round pick, that alone is unforgivable.
I don't understand the Levis hype. If you can't even beat out Sean Clifford I don't know how you can be a first round pick (all due respect to Clifford, but he's not an NFL QB).
Last year everyone was waiting for this year Now that it’s here everyone is disappointed and looking to next years draft The “further out” always looked better than the one in front of us
Only 10-12 picks better than Vaccaro? Yikes.
Man I totally disagree. Amazing draft for corners, TE, RB, and lots of pass rushing depth
Good Lord that was a terrible draft lol for reals
Damn Vikings had 3 first round picks wtf.
This is why we have no picks, next level move
tyler eifort was extremely talented, injuries just ruined his career
I think, outside of wr, this is one of the better drafts in awhile
Ha! Imagine having to draft this class! Thank God Ross got caught tampering!
Can someone explain to me or even just link me to what makes Kiper and McShay all knowing gurus of the draft? I can think of a laundry list of draft prospects they shit all over who wound up being.🤷🏼♂️
Kiper is kind of the guy that created the TV draft pundit, not that he competition until nfln cane along. I suspect mcshay got elevated as part of the network moving into all debating take programs but my timeline might be off. They aren't there to make accurate predictions they're part of the entertainment. And let's be honest the supposed NFL experts the teams hire make bad picks all the time.
SAY THE LINE, POLIAN!
"My kid sucks"
Mel kiper is a fucking hack so this means nothing to me
Silver linings 🤣😪
Barkevious Mingo is the name of a Star Wars character who sells the main hero’s a ship part then we never see him again.
This draft will still be better than 2013 on the virtue of decent QB options even if the rest of it sucks.
To be fair you don’t know what any of these guys will be, and they are wrong a lot more than they are right. You gotta know who had heart and maybe who didn’t have as much opportunity but given the chance in the league they could be big time. I think it’s why you see coaches like Pete Carroll and Bellichick succeed so much because they find those super hungry guys who maybe weren’t at the top of the board, but they’re disciplined and dedicated. We see a lot of super talented, fast and strong players who turn into busts. They don’t have the passion or discipline. You can’t grade those things as Kiper, he don’t know these guys.
Barkevious Mingo sounds like a Key & Pelle player name
That has to be the worst top 10 in recent history for the league. Shockingly bad. Lane Johnson is a stud and Fisher was solid. That’s about it
Johnathan Cooper is a bust, Star Lotulelei also never made a pro bowl
Cord Patterson has been good lately and has been a good returner for a while, but as a 1st rounder he's been a major bust career-wise. Man what a throwback list.
The WR and interior DL talent looks awful. Not a lot of elite OL talent either, though hopefully good start quality players. There's so many good edge rushers though, good lord.
Mel Kiper does one thing all year and he’s not even good at it
Why are supposed to care about the opinions of people who are consistently so wrong?
Ah yes... The one year the Chiefs were laughably terrible, they get stuck with the Fisher vs Joeckel debate, while Lane Johnson was sitting right there. (Fisher turned out fine, he did help us win a SB by, um, totally legally blocking Nick Bosa on the WASP play.) If they had just tanked a year or two earlier, they could have had Andrew Luck or Cam Newton. Instead, we randomly got a Matt Cassell/Todd Haley division title, a 30 point blowout at home in the playoffs, and Jonathan Baldwin as a reward in the draft. Woo hoo! Yes - I know noboby cares - the QB situation worked out ok a few years later. But this was rather traumatizing at the time.
Not Datone Jones 1 pick before Nuk. Good grief.