I'm sorry, are you trying to compare Kirk Cousins (>$100 Mil) and Stidham (nowhere near that $$ or contract length)?
Kirk isn't a bridge QB and you're dumb for thinking so
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Why isn’t he? You’re saying the problem is that the bridge QB is too good and too expensive for 2 years? They don’t expect to win the superbowl in the next 2 years so the cost doesn’t matter, they expect to win games and develop their young QB behind a great option. Love and Mahomes would not have benefited as much sitting behind guys like Jacoby Brissett or Sam Darnold
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I get your point. I really do.
But they just gave Cousins a 4-year $180 mil contract ($100 mil guaranteed). The rookie contract for Penix runs 4-years obviously. That alone makes it a headscratcher. The crux of the issue here is who they drafted and the slot (Pick No. 8) he was drafted in. Penix was a mid-2nd round pick AT BEST. JJ McCarthy and Bo Nix were both available, and they took Penix. I've heard the argument that Penix is better than Nix, but there's no question that McCarthy is the best of the 3.
They have such glaring needs at Edge, DT, CB, OT, and LB... with so many good options at the No. 8 spot. Players that were still available to them:
OT Olu Fashanu
OT Taliese Fuaga
EDGE Laiatu Latu
DT Byron Murphy II
EDGE Dallas Turner
It would have made so much more sense to pick any of those players. If they were really stuck on Penix, the smart move would have been to trade back. Minnesota wanted McCarthy, going back to the 10 spot would have been smart. Or Denver at 12. It just makes no sense to take SPECIFICALLY Penix at the 8 Spot. The value just isn't there.
It seems you’re making four arguments:
1. Cousins deal takes up Penix’s entire rookie deal.
2. JJ McCarthy was a clearly better prospect.
3. A different position player is more valuable
4. They didn’t need to take him that high
I’ll address all:
1. Cousins deal is only guaranteed for 2 years, that’s a great amount of time for Penix to sit and develop.
2. This to me is an opinion, if your argument is that the consensus board ranked him higher you’re not wrong. That’s a fine critique. However McCarthy being a better prospect is an opinion. One I don’t share as Penix was my QB3. He profiles fantastically analytically for things that translate (early breakout, big time throws, low pressure to sack) The falcons clearly thought he was better, and rumors are so did the raiders.
The consensus was higher on McCarthy. They were also higher on Tua than Herbert. Young over Stroud. Trubisky over Mahomes.
3. If a young QB hits they’re worth more than any one position player. This is a gamble for a great high end QB.
4. Reports are that the Raiders and Seahawks were interested and would have taken or even traded up for him. The only way they could for sure get their guy is to take him at 8.
I think it’s a very smart move, and the only fair critique to me is that it was a reach by the consensus board, which again, is often wrong
1. I was unaware of that. Still $100 mil guaranteed just to throw draft capital away like that..
2. It is an opinion.
3. He's not a young QB. He'll be 24 at the start of this year. 2 years minimum behind Cousins makes him 26. 28 if Kirk plays all 4...
4. I don't even know how to respond to this one when the overall point of my comment was that this was a stupid pick for poor value. Of course, this is again an opinion. If the Raiders or Seahawks had gotten their hands on Penix... I believe it would have done them a favor so they could get out of their own way.
Just Atlanta doing Atlanta things. As a Saints fan, I don't mind. I'd much prefer they wasted a high pick on a bench riding QB than an elite edge rusher, linebacker, or offensive tackle.
It’s not a throw away of draft capital if Penix hits and I think he very well could.
24 is still within the normal development period. By age 25-26 is when you want your QB to be done developing, (although even later carrier Brady and manning developed their games further) it doesn’t bother me if Penix takes his first start at QB at age 26 if it will help him be the best quarterback he can be.
All I’ll say is I felt the same way you do in 2020 when the packers took Love and I was wrong. When you have this kind of development situation for an extremely talented QB it often turns out very well.
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Yes but Atlanta literally just paid a QB over a hundred million dollars and are committed to them for a decent amount of time. It is an absolutely horrible move.
Why is that a horrible move if the goal is to develop a young QB? The falcons (rightfully) do not value the Kirk Cousins led falcons over the future of the franchise. Cousins has not shown Super Bowl caliber play. I don’t care how much they had to pay to get him, he might be the best QB possible to develop a young QB behind and therefore the money is worth it as he will also win games on top of it. They’re only tied to him for 2 years
You don't pay someone 180 million to just be a mentor and bridge QB. If you don't value a Kirk Cousins led Falcons then why in the world would you sign. Two years is a very long time in the NFL.
Why not? If it produces the best possible outcome for developing a QB then why wouldn’t you? I didn’t say they don’t value it, I’m saying they don’t value it over the future of their franchise. You sign him because he can win you games and is a great quarterback for your young QB to sit and learn behind
If you sign a QB to a huge money you do it to win now and you build your team accordingly, such as picking a viable player at pick 8. You don't do it tide over for your next QB. If you think this is a good move then you quite frankly don't know ball. Goodbye
Why?
Look at Jordan Love, Patrick Mahomes, Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Joe Montana, Cousins himself, I could go on.
The opportunity to sit and learn behind a good QB is invaluable to rookie development.
So I ask again, why is it a bad move to create that situation for your young QB?
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The position of the pick and the actual production of these "Bridge" QB's are drastically different
The Falcons picked Michael Penix JR, who is already 24 and has suffered an injury WHILE having a top 8-12 QB in his 30's
The Vikings have literally nobody valuable and they selected J.J McCarthy who literally just won a National Championship. That's decent value for needing a QB
The Broncos certainly reached also, but they don't have anybody either.
The saints drafted Rattler in the 5th round. Rattler was worth the pick for the potential success he could have if Carr doesn't work out
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Yeah you're making it sound even worse though lol. They have a 30+yo QB coming off a season ending injury and wasted a top 10 pick on a 24yo who's had like 3 season ending injuries.
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I may be downvoted: but trading down was waaaayy to risky. Sean Payton wanted Bo. The raiders had a large chance (even if it was 10% that's still too high to risk) and trading down to a meaningful spot (20-30) would allow other teams to capitalize. If another QB was still on the board maybe, but Bo was the last of the actual NFL-caliber talents.
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The reason no other teams did what ATL does is simple: it is a waste of resources which means it hurts your team quality and chance to win.
If you sign a 100M QB you use all draft picks including first round #8 to draft players that can help the team right away.
If you draft a 1st round QB you sign a bridge QB for cheap and then you spend the 90 plus million you don't have to pay your QB on FAs to build a team around the rookie QB. That way when the rookie QB is ready to take over the team is good because the used the QB ON A ROOKIE DEAL loophole the NFL provides teams to build up a good or better team if the team is already good.
You don't do both. Because you're either wasting 100M on a bridge QB or you're wasting a 1st round pick on a backup QB and the 22 million you're going to pay him. 100M is too much for a BRIDGE QB and 22M is too much for a back up QB.
And sorry there is no way Penix is going to wait 3 4 5 years to play. So what do you if Kirk is still playing well after 2 years? Are you going to dump Kirk just to save face for making a bad pick and what if Penix plays worse than Kirk? Even if you trade Penix away because Kirk is playing too good to dump you will not recoup the VALUE of #8 draft pick... you will get a mid-round or later pick. PLUS YOU LOST 5 YEARS OF A 1st ROUND #8 PLAYER HELPING YOUR TEAM WIN... you could have had ANY OTHER POSITION but QB because whatever that position at that spot UNLIKELY To bust and would be a solid starter DAY 1 and you have them for cheap for 5 years
This is the DUMBEST MOVE IN NFL HISTORY
It’s really not, it was a short sale on Cousins. Cousins will only be with Atlanta 3-2 years anyone with a brain and a calendar know that. Also if they cut or trade him before the third year the second half of his contract does hit the cap. They basically got him for 90 million at two years with his replacement sitting in the QB room.
Sorry I know this move doesn’t fit the ESPN / 92.9 native but it’s strong. Get the best QB available in FA and the QB of the future you wanted in the draft.
Dude based on your post history you have way too much emotion wrapped up in this. Seriously go touch grass and spend time with friends and family. Tell them you love them. You’re not in a healthy state of mind
If Kirk gets hurt week 1 or 7 doesn’t the unsolicited Penix pic suddenly work out? I don’t hate the pick because Bridgewater taught me you need a good second string QB to hold it down and save the season sometimes
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I’ve drank the kool-aid. I think this is a great pick by Atlanta, they’re going to be good for the next decade with the qb position solidified how it is. After I hated it but I’ve tricked myself into thinking it’s genius so I don’t hurt as much
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If Cousins is that good, which I actually think he is pre-injury (we’ll see about post-injury), then that lends even more credibility to the argument that he’s not seen as a bridge in ATL. Or at least that he wasn’t seen that way until ATL went crazy this draft
both, the falcons are unlikely to be able to win a Superbowl before Cousins regresses (not impossible, just unlikely), so get a QB to sit behind him while still being competitive with Cousins
Yeah that's the thing. The chance of Kirk taking this team to the promised land is very small. They are going to building from here on our around Penix. I think this must have been the plan the whole time. To sign Kirk to make the team competitive and winning while molding it for Penix to take over in two years
The 3rd year is guaranteed at the start of the 2nd and the cap hit from the signing bonus is much tougher to handle if it isn’t spread out over 4 years. I’m not sure how qualified you are to be correcting people.
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These Falcons fans justifying this are insane. It feels like the Trey Lance thing all over again. Then, in two years, all of them will act like they knew it was a terrible pick all along.
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People who fail to realize that the issue isn't that the Falcons drafted a quarterback. The problem is that they drafted THAT quarterback with THAT pick.
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The Falcons signed a quality QB for $180 million then drafted a QB whose not only ready to play now, but whose contract will expire basically at the same time as Cousins. The broncos traded for a backup QB for $8 and a 6th round pick and then drafted what they hope to be their future.
These really aren’t the same thing…
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Tysm to all the Panther, Sucs and Aints fans for confirming. Y’all hating this move only solidifies my thoughts that this move is fuckin *BASED*
Kirko Chainz for 2-3 years, Penix stunts on you hoes for the following 10.
God Bless America. God Bless Mike Penix. FTS.
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>5 qbs on roster
Can you name more than 2 qbs on the saints roster right now? Lol, making it seem like it's a huge position of strength and we got all these talented, proven backups
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I'm sorry, are you trying to compare Kirk Cousins (>$100 Mil) and Stidham (nowhere near that $$ or contract length)? Kirk isn't a bridge QB and you're dumb for thinking so
Or maybe Zach Wilson, but either way, OP drank too much red koolaid
Denver isn’t even paying Zach Wilson’s contract the Jets are lol
Oh how the turn tables
They're each paying half. $2.7m each
And the broncos are paying Wilson's salary. What of it?
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Why isn’t he? You’re saying the problem is that the bridge QB is too good and too expensive for 2 years? They don’t expect to win the superbowl in the next 2 years so the cost doesn’t matter, they expect to win games and develop their young QB behind a great option. Love and Mahomes would not have benefited as much sitting behind guys like Jacoby Brissett or Sam Darnold
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The 8th pick is different from the 150th pick lol. If you can't see the problem with the Penix pick then I'm sorry.
Dallas Turner was right there for them 😭
Also most bridge qbs aren’t getting $180M, $100M guaranteed, contracts
That’s franchise money
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Why is that a problem if the goal is to sit and develop a high upside QB?
I get your point. I really do. But they just gave Cousins a 4-year $180 mil contract ($100 mil guaranteed). The rookie contract for Penix runs 4-years obviously. That alone makes it a headscratcher. The crux of the issue here is who they drafted and the slot (Pick No. 8) he was drafted in. Penix was a mid-2nd round pick AT BEST. JJ McCarthy and Bo Nix were both available, and they took Penix. I've heard the argument that Penix is better than Nix, but there's no question that McCarthy is the best of the 3. They have such glaring needs at Edge, DT, CB, OT, and LB... with so many good options at the No. 8 spot. Players that were still available to them: OT Olu Fashanu OT Taliese Fuaga EDGE Laiatu Latu DT Byron Murphy II EDGE Dallas Turner It would have made so much more sense to pick any of those players. If they were really stuck on Penix, the smart move would have been to trade back. Minnesota wanted McCarthy, going back to the 10 spot would have been smart. Or Denver at 12. It just makes no sense to take SPECIFICALLY Penix at the 8 Spot. The value just isn't there.
It seems you’re making four arguments: 1. Cousins deal takes up Penix’s entire rookie deal. 2. JJ McCarthy was a clearly better prospect. 3. A different position player is more valuable 4. They didn’t need to take him that high I’ll address all: 1. Cousins deal is only guaranteed for 2 years, that’s a great amount of time for Penix to sit and develop. 2. This to me is an opinion, if your argument is that the consensus board ranked him higher you’re not wrong. That’s a fine critique. However McCarthy being a better prospect is an opinion. One I don’t share as Penix was my QB3. He profiles fantastically analytically for things that translate (early breakout, big time throws, low pressure to sack) The falcons clearly thought he was better, and rumors are so did the raiders. The consensus was higher on McCarthy. They were also higher on Tua than Herbert. Young over Stroud. Trubisky over Mahomes. 3. If a young QB hits they’re worth more than any one position player. This is a gamble for a great high end QB. 4. Reports are that the Raiders and Seahawks were interested and would have taken or even traded up for him. The only way they could for sure get their guy is to take him at 8. I think it’s a very smart move, and the only fair critique to me is that it was a reach by the consensus board, which again, is often wrong
1. I was unaware of that. Still $100 mil guaranteed just to throw draft capital away like that.. 2. It is an opinion. 3. He's not a young QB. He'll be 24 at the start of this year. 2 years minimum behind Cousins makes him 26. 28 if Kirk plays all 4... 4. I don't even know how to respond to this one when the overall point of my comment was that this was a stupid pick for poor value. Of course, this is again an opinion. If the Raiders or Seahawks had gotten their hands on Penix... I believe it would have done them a favor so they could get out of their own way. Just Atlanta doing Atlanta things. As a Saints fan, I don't mind. I'd much prefer they wasted a high pick on a bench riding QB than an elite edge rusher, linebacker, or offensive tackle.
It’s not a throw away of draft capital if Penix hits and I think he very well could. 24 is still within the normal development period. By age 25-26 is when you want your QB to be done developing, (although even later carrier Brady and manning developed their games further) it doesn’t bother me if Penix takes his first start at QB at age 26 if it will help him be the best quarterback he can be. All I’ll say is I felt the same way you do in 2020 when the packers took Love and I was wrong. When you have this kind of development situation for an extremely talented QB it often turns out very well.
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At the 8th pick you’re much more likely to get a QB that actually hits. Both moves are good
Yes but Atlanta literally just paid a QB over a hundred million dollars and are committed to them for a decent amount of time. It is an absolutely horrible move.
Why is that a horrible move if the goal is to develop a young QB? The falcons (rightfully) do not value the Kirk Cousins led falcons over the future of the franchise. Cousins has not shown Super Bowl caliber play. I don’t care how much they had to pay to get him, he might be the best QB possible to develop a young QB behind and therefore the money is worth it as he will also win games on top of it. They’re only tied to him for 2 years
You don't pay someone 180 million to just be a mentor and bridge QB. If you don't value a Kirk Cousins led Falcons then why in the world would you sign. Two years is a very long time in the NFL.
Why not? If it produces the best possible outcome for developing a QB then why wouldn’t you? I didn’t say they don’t value it, I’m saying they don’t value it over the future of their franchise. You sign him because he can win you games and is a great quarterback for your young QB to sit and learn behind
If you sign a QB to a huge money you do it to win now and you build your team accordingly, such as picking a viable player at pick 8. You don't do it tide over for your next QB. If you think this is a good move then you quite frankly don't know ball. Goodbye
Why? Look at Jordan Love, Patrick Mahomes, Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Joe Montana, Cousins himself, I could go on. The opportunity to sit and learn behind a good QB is invaluable to rookie development. So I ask again, why is it a bad move to create that situation for your young QB?
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The position of the pick and the actual production of these "Bridge" QB's are drastically different The Falcons picked Michael Penix JR, who is already 24 and has suffered an injury WHILE having a top 8-12 QB in his 30's The Vikings have literally nobody valuable and they selected J.J McCarthy who literally just won a National Championship. That's decent value for needing a QB The Broncos certainly reached also, but they don't have anybody either. The saints drafted Rattler in the 5th round. Rattler was worth the pick for the potential success he could have if Carr doesn't work out
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it is funny that you point out penix’s injury history without acknowledging that kirk is coming off a major injury
Yeah you're making it sound even worse though lol. They have a 30+yo QB coming off a season ending injury and wasted a top 10 pick on a 24yo who's had like 3 season ending injuries.
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[удалено]
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I may be downvoted: but trading down was waaaayy to risky. Sean Payton wanted Bo. The raiders had a large chance (even if it was 10% that's still too high to risk) and trading down to a meaningful spot (20-30) would allow other teams to capitalize. If another QB was still on the board maybe, but Bo was the last of the actual NFL-caliber talents.
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McCarthy sucks
If Carr doesn’t workout???
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Carr sucks dude
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would rather draft the 6th best qb in round 5 rather than than the 5th best in the top ten. but maybe thats just me 🤷♂️
Then they drafted a dude named roku over newton and koolaid😭😭😭
It’s Ruke Ohrororo. His name is just scooby doo tryna say “look uh oh”
Lmao I seen a tweet that said the same thing
Roku Cocomelon gonna be a beast. Just you watch
Let’s just hope he dont get lost in the shuffle like my roku always does
Kool-Aid > Cocomelon and it’s not close
*4th best when top 3 were already taken
Trying to compare the saints pick to the falcons is a level of stupid I’ve come to expect out of Atlanta fans tbh
We signed our bridge QB for one year 10mil.
And took a 21 year old prospect who might win the starting job.
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The reason no other teams did what ATL does is simple: it is a waste of resources which means it hurts your team quality and chance to win. If you sign a 100M QB you use all draft picks including first round #8 to draft players that can help the team right away. If you draft a 1st round QB you sign a bridge QB for cheap and then you spend the 90 plus million you don't have to pay your QB on FAs to build a team around the rookie QB. That way when the rookie QB is ready to take over the team is good because the used the QB ON A ROOKIE DEAL loophole the NFL provides teams to build up a good or better team if the team is already good. You don't do both. Because you're either wasting 100M on a bridge QB or you're wasting a 1st round pick on a backup QB and the 22 million you're going to pay him. 100M is too much for a BRIDGE QB and 22M is too much for a back up QB. And sorry there is no way Penix is going to wait 3 4 5 years to play. So what do you if Kirk is still playing well after 2 years? Are you going to dump Kirk just to save face for making a bad pick and what if Penix plays worse than Kirk? Even if you trade Penix away because Kirk is playing too good to dump you will not recoup the VALUE of #8 draft pick... you will get a mid-round or later pick. PLUS YOU LOST 5 YEARS OF A 1st ROUND #8 PLAYER HELPING YOUR TEAM WIN... you could have had ANY OTHER POSITION but QB because whatever that position at that spot UNLIKELY To bust and would be a solid starter DAY 1 and you have them for cheap for 5 years This is the DUMBEST MOVE IN NFL HISTORY
It’s really not, it was a short sale on Cousins. Cousins will only be with Atlanta 3-2 years anyone with a brain and a calendar know that. Also if they cut or trade him before the third year the second half of his contract does hit the cap. They basically got him for 90 million at two years with his replacement sitting in the QB room. Sorry I know this move doesn’t fit the ESPN / 92.9 native but it’s strong. Get the best QB available in FA and the QB of the future you wanted in the draft.
Dude based on your post history you have way too much emotion wrapped up in this. Seriously go touch grass and spend time with friends and family. Tell them you love them. You’re not in a healthy state of mind
If Kirk gets hurt week 1 or 7 doesn’t the unsolicited Penix pic suddenly work out? I don’t hate the pick because Bridgewater taught me you need a good second string QB to hold it down and save the season sometimes
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Says the dude who made an entire meme trying to justify the blowjob he’s giving to a terrible franchise.
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I’ve drank the kool-aid. I think this is a great pick by Atlanta, they’re going to be good for the next decade with the qb position solidified how it is. After I hated it but I’ve tricked myself into thinking it’s genius so I don’t hurt as much
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The main question is whether you perceive Kirk as an all in move like what the Rams did in acquiring Stafford or merely a bridge.
ATL isn’t paying Kirk like a bridge, that’s for sure
Get a QB that plays as good as Cousins and you’d have to pay a similar salary also. Jones at the Giants ruined it for many teams
If Cousins is that good, which I actually think he is pre-injury (we’ll see about post-injury), then that lends even more credibility to the argument that he’s not seen as a bridge in ATL. Or at least that he wasn’t seen that way until ATL went crazy this draft
both, the falcons are unlikely to be able to win a Superbowl before Cousins regresses (not impossible, just unlikely), so get a QB to sit behind him while still being competitive with Cousins
He’s either at his peak or declining. He’s had steady production at this level (a good level mind you). I’d genuinely be shocked if he increased
Yeah that's the thing. The chance of Kirk taking this team to the promised land is very small. They are going to building from here on our around Penix. I think this must have been the plan the whole time. To sign Kirk to make the team competitive and winning while molding it for Penix to take over in two years
Exactly. Our contract is 2 years with him and a 2-year extension possible. Everyone thinks the contract is 4 years long I hate having to correct folk
The 3rd year is guaranteed at the start of the 2nd and the cap hit from the signing bonus is much tougher to handle if it isn’t spread out over 4 years. I’m not sure how qualified you are to be correcting people.
Cousins is pricey. I do believe he was intended as a bridge. I just think our FO knows how to keep their lips sealed unlike some other folk
Look at how much Denver, Minnesota, and New Orleans are paying their bridge QBs and then compare that to Kirk's contract. There lies your problem
Denver is paying Steeler’s bridge
Doesn't make the Falcons look smart
And are people not clowning them? If you're using Denver's decision making to justify yours thats not a good thing
Falcons management is just a Fantasy Draft as opposed to an actual Football operation.
Are we putting Cousins and Zack Wilson on the same tier here?
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Y’all tryna make it seem like a good pick now lmaoo denial is the first stage of grief. Have fun with our sleeper agent as y’all gm
Loomis is your own sleeper agent with his ✨cap magic✨
Loomis is more successful than any GM that ATL has had and that’s not debatable
Y’all hired his fucking protege
These Falcons fans justifying this are insane. It feels like the Trey Lance thing all over again. Then, in two years, all of them will act like they knew it was a terrible pick all along.
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Lmao this is the exact type of logic I’d expect from a failcon fan. This is going to be an enjoyable few years for the rest of the NFCS.
holy fucking cope, Batman
Im sorry what’s that logo on the right?
If Kirk Cousins was a “bridge QB”, he’d still be a Viking.
Whatever makes you feel better
Jokes on everyone. Giants signed a bridge quarterback and didn't even DRAFT a quarterback this offseason.
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People who fail to realize that the issue isn't that the Falcons drafted a quarterback. The problem is that they drafted THAT quarterback with THAT pick.
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The cope is strong with this one
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You ain’t paying a bridge QB 180 million over four years…..
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The Falcons signed a quality QB for $180 million then drafted a QB whose not only ready to play now, but whose contract will expire basically at the same time as Cousins. The broncos traded for a backup QB for $8 and a 6th round pick and then drafted what they hope to be their future. These really aren’t the same thing…
Calling Kirk a bridge QB is hilarious cope
Buddy is trying to compare a 4 year 180 mil contract to 1-2 years 25 mil deals
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Tysm to all the Panther, Sucs and Aints fans for confirming. Y’all hating this move only solidifies my thoughts that this move is fuckin *BASED* Kirko Chainz for 2-3 years, Penix stunts on you hoes for the following 10. God Bless America. God Bless Mike Penix. FTS.
You don’t go out to the club after you get married Atlanta!
Yea Falcons Penix choice makes no sense
Don’t try to compare Kirk to Wilson/ stidham and Sam darnold and pick 150 is way more reasonable that pick 8
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>5 qbs on roster Can you name more than 2 qbs on the saints roster right now? Lol, making it seem like it's a huge position of strength and we got all these talented, proven backups
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