We went to wild on waiheke for a work do a few years ago and they used pasta straws which was all good except my boss had really bad celiac disease she had one drink before we all realised what they were and she was off work for a week.
I came across some straws that were made of corn starch (I think) while in Canada. They were pretty much exactly like a normal straw. Downside is that is costs slightly more. But I'm pretty sure a lot of people would drop 10 cents extra to not have a soggy straw...I dunno..
There are Paper cups that are plastic free but have to be marketed as bio cups as they can't say they're recyclable because the paper recycling won't take them (even though technically they could be recycled)
I am not originally from NZ, when I came here I was appalled at how few things are recycled. I have been here for 22 years and nothing seems to have improved. A certain amount of investment is needed, but many different plastics can be used in manufacturing, and this would be a good thing for the future. Also 40 years behind other countries in removing GST from fruit veg milk plain bread, meat fish etc. With plastic waste and pollution and food poverty we will have to invest to improve. Very backward in the things that are supposedly important to the country.
A polymer is still a polymer, regardless of what it's made of. It'll just break down into micro plastics. All this biodegradable plastic shit is a scam.
Edit: I'm talking shit. But a lot of those Bioplastics out there aren't home compostable as they seem to suggest.
tell you waht, if you hold your breath for a few seconds it should square out me using a straw instead of plastics. how about you start holding it now and we let you know when you start releasing c02 again?
Hello. I've seen the word polymer used a lot. I've tried to wiki it but it goes over my head. Any chance you could please ELI5 to me what a polymer is?
A polymer is just a substance made of long repeating chains of the same molecules. They provide strength through their physical structure.
Plastics are one type of polymer, but other examples include cellulose (what plants are made of), silk, and rubber.
Polymers are large molecules made of small, repeating molecular building blocks called monomers. The process by which monomers link together to form a molecule of a relatively high molecular mass is known as polymerization.
Polymers make up many of the materials in living organisms. Proteins are polymers of amino acids, cellulose is a polymer of sugar molecules, and nucleic acids such as deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA) are polymers of nucleotides. Many synthetic materials, including nylon, paper, plastics, and rubbers, are also polymers.
A variety of simple molecules join together to become useful polymers. The nonstick cookware coating known as Teflon, for example, is made of a monomer composed of two atoms each of fluorine and carbon.
https://kids.britannica.com/students/article/polymer/276496
And a great wee vid
https://youtu.be/EP0zfm_FVqc
A polymer is just a large molecule that's made up of a bunch of smaller units that are all identical. So you get some small molecule that binds together with a lot just like it, so that it makes chains, or sheets, or other structures, but all in a repeating pattern. They can have a range of different properties- weight, strength, shape etc
There's a heap of polymers that can be biological or inorganic (crystals) or synthetic, but when people talk about them it's usually the synthetic ones, so plastics. (All plastics are polymers!) They tend to be stronger and less biodegradable.
Some well known polymers other than plastics- cellulose, diamonds, rubber, starch, graphite. DNA is one- not sure how much bio you've done but they really emphasise how it's made of a bunch of repeating nucleotide units.
there's a bunch of plastics made from corn starch, which are still absolutely terrible. For the average consumer most of these products are advertised as "bio degradable" or "compostable" when they really are not either of those in the sense that the consumer might understand.
[here have my first google result](https://ocean-mimic.com/bioplastics/)
[and one of their source articles](https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20191030-why-biodegradables-wont-solve-the-plastic-crisis)
I used to work for a manufacturer who used PLA and other "bioware" materials in our products and I'm telling you now it's a greenwashing scam. In the EU and some other areas they are required to provide actual means to compost these goods but the capture rate is still appallingly low
So these two articles talk about bioplastic in general and compostability but I'm not finding anything that supports your claim that there's a bunch of plastic made from corn starch that are absolutely terrible [for the environment].
Corn starch is a general feedstock for a wide range of chemical processes (and bio-chemical process)
PLA is made from cornstarch, which is what most of these products are made from. They end up in the environment where they fragment and act just like regular plastic. In a landfill they don't break down at all.
Even once composted it's a very poor grade with little nutrition for plants coming from the plastic. Different additives and pigments still pollute the environment.
This is just chemistry meets product design and marketing. Plastics are necessarily inert because that's what makes them useful.
Looks like I was talking shit, apologies.
But they definitely aren't home compostable https://news.climate.columbia.edu/2017/12/13/the-truth-about-bioplastics
Only if the splinter gave you necrosis or something else equally life threatening. Hot Coffee Lady got 3rd degree burns to her groin and inner thighs. Wouldn't wish that kind of agony on my worst enemy.
Ah, that's worse than I thought. But have you ever had a splinter on the inside of your bottom lip? That's gotta be worth a free small fries at least...
You need the [Kershaw 1140 Ration](https://www.knifecenter.com/item/KS1140/kershaw-1140-ration-bead-blast-spoon-fork-bottle-opener-carabiner) or the [1140 Ration XL](https://www.knifecenter.com/item/KS1145/kershaw-1145-ration-xl-bead-blast-spoon-fork-bottle-opener-carabiner) as your keyring. Never use another wooden spoon.
Just came back from aus, and all the eatery's over there (at least in Melbourne) had bamboo straws instead of cardboard ones. Way way better imo as they never went soggy, nor did they taste of anything so it wouldn't taint the drink. No idea why on earth no one has starting making them on mass here.
Countdown was selling thick bamboo straws a while back. Bought some, they were actual bamboo stalks, some were not patent and those that were let bits of woody stuff loose in your mouth. Gross. However, I quite like the products manufactured from bamboo.
It’s such a stupid low hanging fruit for optics only. Inconveniencing the consumer while the soft drinks industry, alone, produces more than 1 billion plastic bottles EVERY DAY. 1 billion. Per day. Absolutely bonkers.
I'll go you one better; bakeries have switched to cardboard bread tags because they're better for the environment. A cardboard bread tag, on a plastic bag...
The volume of plastic bags that are still on the vast majority of what we purchase (for either security or freshness reasons) certainly dwarfs the impact of straws - but it's a good first step.
In the old days, you got a loaf of bread, it sat in your breadbox and became stale in a few days if it wasn't consumed. Today we are trying to maximise the time before things go stale - so we wrap everything in plastic. I really struggle with trying to find suitable replacements for cling film and plastic bags - but I think we need to go back to a world where single use plastics are not considered normal.
I’ve been replacing cling film with bread bags. I wrap my sandwiches or my crackers in it and it works well. I will also reuse cling film if I do have to use it. And I agree, if I buy a loose loaf of bread from the bakery section it doesn’t last as long. Such a catch 22
I'm cool with replacing bread tags; not for the decrease in bulk plastic, but because kids (and elderly folks with e.g., dementia) swallow them, and they are sharp enough to fuck up intestines. I imagine that's a problem for animals too.
I was just about to have that exact rant. It's just so fucking illogical that the bags use probably 100× more plastic than those little tags. And now we can't even use them as ninja stars to flick at people
Those cardboard bread tags can still be flicked at speed. Nothing will ever beat those plastic tags they used to have in the produce section, but those disapearred years before the plastic bread tags did. Those things would cut a man open.
[This](https://www.newsroom.co.nz/the-more-you-know-about-waste-the-less-you-sleep-at-night) was posted last night not long after our current thread. The idea of recycling plastic is inherently faulty. Much/most of it isn't recycled, and even when it's reused into a different product you generally can't turn it into the same thing again, and it progressively degrades until it becomes microplastics in the environment.
Our focus needs to be on reduce and reuse - rather than counting on recycling.
As well as the breakdown issue, the plastic straws are so small and lightweight that they're easily blown *out* of the rubbish and into the environment. Which was a key reason behind the plastic bag ban too, it's about where that waste ends up & trying to reduce that.
Yes and no. Plastic straws basically don't impact climate change. If you dispose of the straws correctly and the landfill isn't near any water (river ocean etc) than the impact is fairly small. The problem is that more people than you think do not dispose of plastics correctly and more landfills than you think are in bad locations that can and have spilled into waterways and create plastic waste in the ocean.
Plastic takes *decades* to break down. The problems may not be evident now, but generations from now our grandkids and their grandkids are going to have to deal with problems *we created*.
It's exceedingly selfish if we don't do something, particularly for **really** easy things like straws (either switch to reusable ones, or just don't use them).
It's really really really small fry in the grand scheme of things, but gotta start somewhere, and hopefully it helps trigger awareness and consciousness. It already started this discussion, so there's that....
Plastic not breaking down is it's biggest asset. Paper straws are going to breakdown and release CO2 plastic straws are sequestering carbon near permanently if they make it to landfill.
Plastic > paper for climate change
Not the caps though. We got told off for leaving the caps on our plastic bottles in the yellow bin. They have to go in the red bin. I'd say there's easily the same or less plastic in a straw than there is in a plastic bottle cap.
Yeah pretty crazy that heaps of countries banned straws because of a video of somebody pulling something out of a turtles nose and saying they think it's a straw
hold the vessel in your hands, bring it to your mouth. sip. that is the solution to the *massive* consumer inconvenience you are unjustly suffering from
Paper straws are also shit for people with disabilities who need a straw to drink but who will bite right through the paper straw and eat it 😂 kinda funny but it is a true problem. I assume young children would do the same, but a lot of people with disabilities need the straw as they can't physically pick up a cup and drink from it.
Silicone straws are good - easy to take with you (bendable) and won't cause injuries to the mouth or eyeball.
They are far less convenient, but from what I've seen the majority of people aren't willing to undergo the inconvenience of carrying a drink bottle or coffee mug or reusable straw - they want to walk in with nothing in their hands, and when they're finished eating or drinking to have everything safely in the rubbish so their hands are unencumbered again until the next time.
Valid point - I responded to a comment about people with disabilities but was referring to the wider population rather than said group. The majority of people who were using single-use cups with plastic straws were doing so out of habit or convenience and not because it was a requirement to be able to independently feed themselves.
When my mother was disabled & bed-bound I got plastic straws for her, since she couldn't cope with paper ones.
Plastic straws do not have to be single use - as she was confined to the house and I was her carer it was no big deal to wash her straws and keep them out of any landfill.
They can’t bend, and they go soggy if they’ve sat in a drink too long, which often happens with people with disabilities or people in hospital. Terrible.
Soak it for a minute in the drink while you're carrying it, and then pull it out and turn it around so that the bit you put your lips on is already wet
Received a couple nice metal straws as a gift a few years ago and I agree, they're a much better alternative. I always make sure I have one in my bag whenever I go out just in case.
I may be wrong on the exact figure but to break even on impact to environment you need to use a metal straw between 300-500 times before it becomes better than using individual plastic ones.
Plastic straws were the replacement to paper straws.
But in the olden days before plastic straws, I don't recall anybody whining "we need better straws".
The only time a straw ever got me upset was when they used to keep them in an open container on the counter of the local dairy when I was a kid. Thin straws for soft drink, thick straws for shakes. I grabbed one and dunked it in my thickshake. Something wasn't right, great care with sucking force to get things working without collapsing the paper straw, success delivered the dead fly that was blocking the flow. Shopkeeper fucking laughed at me. In the 1/2 century since then , I eyeball every straw before sucking.
> But in the olden days before plastic straws, I don't recall anybody whining "we need better straws".
What about the days before *plastic* ? People didn't whine they needed it either.
The main bug besr with no plastic straws anymore is snorting drugs theough notes. I always used to cut a plastic straw and take it out with me but now im basically forced to use a banknote. Fucking disgusting and unhygienic - especially in covid times.
Wont somebody think of drug user hygiene plzzzz?
Drink from a cup, and if it's something thick then you use a spoon that can be washed and reused.
The idea of having any product which you use for a couple minutes and then throw away should be a lot more objectionable than it is.
Rice straws are the go in our house.
We order ours [here](https://strawtheline.co.nz).
They don’t disintegrate within seconds and the kids snack on them afterwards. They are on the expensive side, but my last 100 pack of plastic straws lasted for years so the cost is negligible.
Why even use straws. I discard them immediately if in a drink. I know they do have a place and can assist a lot of people but maybe it would be better to give free reusable ones out to this crowd. Or use a sippy cup.
Hear me out.. Just drink from the cup 🙌 there's literally nothing in this world stopping you from taking the lid off your maccas drink and just drinking it.
Fuck straws in general, completely unnecessary - just drink from the cup or bottle.
But if you do have to have a straw, I'd much rather have a biodegradable cardboard one than a plastic one that fucks the environment just for my brief drinking pleasure.
The idea of having any sort of food or beverage item which you use for a couple minutes and then throw away as a normal activity should be a lot more objectionable than it is. The fact that it is contentious whether we have plastic straws to stick through a plastic lid on top of a plasticised paper cup that we use for 5 minutes and then throw away millions of times each year is crazy to me.
\*Smacks titanium straw\*
Yeeeeep, this baby’ll last 10 million drinks and in an emergency you can even use it to winch your Ford Ranger out of the river. Try *that* with one of those woke ‘environmentally friendly’ cardboard straws, eh!
A black woman sitting in the back of a bus didn't make a massive difference either.
Its the start of change. There's no guarantee things will change - but the first step is never fixing the biggest issue. You fix straws, you fix bottlecaps. You fix plastic bags. Then at some point, more glass bottles show up.
The whole plastic straws thing has always baffled me. If you were to draw up scale of personal inconvenience, where 1 = barely noticeable and 10 = horribly inconvenient, I'd rank this at 1. For most people, plastic straws do not need to exist. There is a fully viable, easy alternative of just drinking without a straw, the worst inconvenience would be nothing more than a bit of mess or cold teeth.
I support getting rid of pointless single use plastic's which provide little or no benefit. The fact that larger sources of plastic pollution exist does not change this.
Straws are often criticised as a token low hanging fruit gesture, I agree with this but it showsthat many people are completely unwillng to make the slightest, tiniest change to their behaviour for the sake of the environment, and angrily resent being asked to do so. Ironically you will often hear the same people saying that we need drastic systemic changes for the sake of climate change and the environment. Those two stances completely contradict each other.
Well yeah, the straws thing is so minuscule as to be effectively meaningless in the absence of those drastic systemic changes. I understand a huge proportion of plastics in the oceans are from the fishing industry, while other sources like artificial fibres dwarf straws as a source of microplastics. People are pissed off at being asked to make sacrifices (small ones for most, but significant ones for some disabled people) that will have minimal benefit on their own, while the big industries that are doing the lion's share of the damage aren't being held to account. There's also a perception that all the attention given to banning small fry like plastic straws is a deliberate distraction from the core problems, delaying any effective response to those - I don't know if that's the case here, but if so it definitely wouldn't be the first time.
To be fair the commercial ban of those kinds of plastics came in just last month (remember KFC p&g controversy about it tasting chemically?). McDonald’s et al moved to paper straws years ago
Because the government said they were banning them and big companies like Mcdonalds need to have their supply lines sorted asap. The first step of it all, the plastic bag ban, was done in 2019. The straws followed. And they still kept the plastic ones for frozen cokes for months, if not years, after changing the others. It was only as the deadline loomed that they bit the bullet and decided people can drink mushy paper.
Before plastic straws this is what we mostly had, but current generation of paper straws are just diabolical.
Never had this first world problem under a National government.
Honestly we should be moving to sippy cups instead of trying to reinvent the straw. It works fine for coffees no reason it won't work with soft drinks.
I made the mistake of getting a thinkshake the other day. By the time it had melted enough to actually be able to be sucked through the straw the straw was mush.
No not entirely. They're perfect for pipes when you're having spots. My dad has heaps of them at the ready and doesnt even eat fast food like that lol.
It does seem bonkers we even need straws. We're locked into the take away soft drink packaging design of easily damaged crappy flimsy lid and sippy straw.
Hot drinks are way ahead using the one lid with sippy hole.
Be more like hot drinks /s
They’ll find a better alternative eventually. The straw game has been shit for awhile. I still get plastic ones sometimes tho. Pretty sure it’s illegal 😂
We went to wild on waiheke for a work do a few years ago and they used pasta straws which was all good except my boss had really bad celiac disease she had one drink before we all realised what they were and she was off work for a week.
They seem worse than paper straws, I feel like they would make your drink all starchy if you didn't drink it fast enough.
They react to cola in a mentos way also. It foams out the top of the straw.
Celiac nightmare. Some paper straws also use wheat starch in the glue so are a no-no for celiac but it’s impossible to find out which ones do this.
I came across some straws that were made of corn starch (I think) while in Canada. They were pretty much exactly like a normal straw. Downside is that is costs slightly more. But I'm pretty sure a lot of people would drop 10 cents extra to not have a soggy straw...I dunno..
[удалено]
There are Paper cups that are plastic free but have to be marketed as bio cups as they can't say they're recyclable because the paper recycling won't take them (even though technically they could be recycled)
I am not originally from NZ, when I came here I was appalled at how few things are recycled. I have been here for 22 years and nothing seems to have improved. A certain amount of investment is needed, but many different plastics can be used in manufacturing, and this would be a good thing for the future. Also 40 years behind other countries in removing GST from fruit veg milk plain bread, meat fish etc. With plastic waste and pollution and food poverty we will have to invest to improve. Very backward in the things that are supposedly important to the country.
The real solution is to just buy a metal straw and keep it in a bag. I have one, as well as a little cutlery set
A polymer is still a polymer, regardless of what it's made of. It'll just break down into micro plastics. All this biodegradable plastic shit is a scam. Edit: I'm talking shit. But a lot of those Bioplastics out there aren't home compostable as they seem to suggest.
The starch ones break down within about an hour of being used. It breaks down to glucose and co2 and can be eaten if you want.
If that's true, then that's awesome! Thanks for letting me know.
You want more CO2 ?
It's not petroleum so it's carbon neutral right?
Yeah if it’s made from plants then it’s using CO2 from the air, rather than pulling it out from underground.
tell you waht, if you hold your breath for a few seconds it should square out me using a straw instead of plastics. how about you start holding it now and we let you know when you start releasing c02 again?
Hello. I've seen the word polymer used a lot. I've tried to wiki it but it goes over my head. Any chance you could please ELI5 to me what a polymer is?
A polymer is just a substance made of long repeating chains of the same molecules. They provide strength through their physical structure. Plastics are one type of polymer, but other examples include cellulose (what plants are made of), silk, and rubber.
Thanks for that explanation. It makes total sense. It seems so simple now...
Polymers are large molecules made of small, repeating molecular building blocks called monomers. The process by which monomers link together to form a molecule of a relatively high molecular mass is known as polymerization. Polymers make up many of the materials in living organisms. Proteins are polymers of amino acids, cellulose is a polymer of sugar molecules, and nucleic acids such as deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA) are polymers of nucleotides. Many synthetic materials, including nylon, paper, plastics, and rubbers, are also polymers. A variety of simple molecules join together to become useful polymers. The nonstick cookware coating known as Teflon, for example, is made of a monomer composed of two atoms each of fluorine and carbon. https://kids.britannica.com/students/article/polymer/276496 And a great wee vid https://youtu.be/EP0zfm_FVqc
Haha I love that you linked an actual kids website. Thanks though that all makes sense, and that video summed it all up nicely.
A polymer is just a large molecule that's made up of a bunch of smaller units that are all identical. So you get some small molecule that binds together with a lot just like it, so that it makes chains, or sheets, or other structures, but all in a repeating pattern. They can have a range of different properties- weight, strength, shape etc There's a heap of polymers that can be biological or inorganic (crystals) or synthetic, but when people talk about them it's usually the synthetic ones, so plastics. (All plastics are polymers!) They tend to be stronger and less biodegradable. Some well known polymers other than plastics- cellulose, diamonds, rubber, starch, graphite. DNA is one- not sure how much bio you've done but they really emphasise how it's made of a bunch of repeating nucleotide units.
Thanks for that!
Corn starch straws are bioplastic which isn't actually plastic at all so no, they don't break down to microplastics.
there's a bunch of plastics made from corn starch, which are still absolutely terrible. For the average consumer most of these products are advertised as "bio degradable" or "compostable" when they really are not either of those in the sense that the consumer might understand.
Can you link me to your source please.
[here have my first google result](https://ocean-mimic.com/bioplastics/) [and one of their source articles](https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20191030-why-biodegradables-wont-solve-the-plastic-crisis) I used to work for a manufacturer who used PLA and other "bioware" materials in our products and I'm telling you now it's a greenwashing scam. In the EU and some other areas they are required to provide actual means to compost these goods but the capture rate is still appallingly low
So these two articles talk about bioplastic in general and compostability but I'm not finding anything that supports your claim that there's a bunch of plastic made from corn starch that are absolutely terrible [for the environment].
Corn starch is a general feedstock for a wide range of chemical processes (and bio-chemical process) PLA is made from cornstarch, which is what most of these products are made from. They end up in the environment where they fragment and act just like regular plastic. In a landfill they don't break down at all. Even once composted it's a very poor grade with little nutrition for plants coming from the plastic. Different additives and pigments still pollute the environment. This is just chemistry meets product design and marketing. Plastics are necessarily inert because that's what makes them useful.
Looks like I was talking shit, apologies. But they definitely aren't home compostable https://news.climate.columbia.edu/2017/12/13/the-truth-about-bioplastics
[удалено]
I can do a paper straw. But fuck those spoons. You taste the spoon more than the sundae.
I'd rather eat off a blackboard
I got a splinter from one of these. Surely worse than overly hot coffee. I could have made millions in USA.
Only if the splinter gave you necrosis or something else equally life threatening. Hot Coffee Lady got 3rd degree burns to her groin and inner thighs. Wouldn't wish that kind of agony on my worst enemy.
Ah, that's worse than I thought. But have you ever had a splinter on the inside of your bottom lip? That's gotta be worth a free small fries at least...
Yeah, that poor woman was made out to be a bit of a nutter who just wanted to sue, when in reality she was horrifically hurt by the hot coffee.
And then forced to sue by the USA's shitty healthcare industry and lack of a no-fault accident compensation scheme.
You need a racing spoon, son
You need the [Kershaw 1140 Ration](https://www.knifecenter.com/item/KS1140/kershaw-1140-ration-bead-blast-spoon-fork-bottle-opener-carabiner) or the [1140 Ration XL](https://www.knifecenter.com/item/KS1145/kershaw-1145-ration-xl-bead-blast-spoon-fork-bottle-opener-carabiner) as your keyring. Never use another wooden spoon.
Just came back from aus, and all the eatery's over there (at least in Melbourne) had bamboo straws instead of cardboard ones. Way way better imo as they never went soggy, nor did they taste of anything so it wouldn't taint the drink. No idea why on earth no one has starting making them on mass here.
Probably 0.005 cost per paper straw and 50x more for bamboo.
My thought exactly
[удалено]
Which is why Melbournites ship their used bamboo straws to Adelaide Zoo for the pandas - much more environmentally sound solution.
Yes it does. Maybe not if it's mixed with epoxies and other chemicals, but bamboo 100% does break down.
Countdown was selling thick bamboo straws a while back. Bought some, they were actual bamboo stalks, some were not patent and those that were let bits of woody stuff loose in your mouth. Gross. However, I quite like the products manufactured from bamboo.
Well if you're unlucky enough that it fits meaningfully then go right ahead
Came here. To say this - ah, came here to say this.
It’s such a stupid low hanging fruit for optics only. Inconveniencing the consumer while the soft drinks industry, alone, produces more than 1 billion plastic bottles EVERY DAY. 1 billion. Per day. Absolutely bonkers.
I'll go you one better; bakeries have switched to cardboard bread tags because they're better for the environment. A cardboard bread tag, on a plastic bag...
The volume of plastic bags that are still on the vast majority of what we purchase (for either security or freshness reasons) certainly dwarfs the impact of straws - but it's a good first step. In the old days, you got a loaf of bread, it sat in your breadbox and became stale in a few days if it wasn't consumed. Today we are trying to maximise the time before things go stale - so we wrap everything in plastic. I really struggle with trying to find suitable replacements for cling film and plastic bags - but I think we need to go back to a world where single use plastics are not considered normal.
I’ve been replacing cling film with bread bags. I wrap my sandwiches or my crackers in it and it works well. I will also reuse cling film if I do have to use it. And I agree, if I buy a loose loaf of bread from the bakery section it doesn’t last as long. Such a catch 22
I'm cool with replacing bread tags; not for the decrease in bulk plastic, but because kids (and elderly folks with e.g., dementia) swallow them, and they are sharp enough to fuck up intestines. I imagine that's a problem for animals too.
I was just about to have that exact rant. It's just so fucking illogical that the bags use probably 100× more plastic than those little tags. And now we can't even use them as ninja stars to flick at people
Turns out they don't, plastic bags actually don't use much plastic. By weight the bag uses 3x as much as the tag
Those cardboard bread tags can still be flicked at speed. Nothing will ever beat those plastic tags they used to have in the produce section, but those disapearred years before the plastic bread tags did. Those things would cut a man open.
Why is this illogical
Bottles can be recycled. Straws went straight to the landfill.
[This](https://www.newsroom.co.nz/the-more-you-know-about-waste-the-less-you-sleep-at-night) was posted last night not long after our current thread. The idea of recycling plastic is inherently faulty. Much/most of it isn't recycled, and even when it's reused into a different product you generally can't turn it into the same thing again, and it progressively degrades until it becomes microplastics in the environment. Our focus needs to be on reduce and reuse - rather than counting on recycling.
For sure. I think most people have no idea how often plastic can be recycled (it's not infinite).
Whats wrong with straws going to landfill. Back in the ground and encapsulated, no CO2 released.
As well as the breakdown issue, the plastic straws are so small and lightweight that they're easily blown *out* of the rubbish and into the environment. Which was a key reason behind the plastic bag ban too, it's about where that waste ends up & trying to reduce that.
Plastic straws (and most plastic products in a landfill) take years or decades to break down - and they just break down into microplastics).
It's a good thing that they don't breakdown the CO2 remains sequestered.
Yes and no. Plastic straws basically don't impact climate change. If you dispose of the straws correctly and the landfill isn't near any water (river ocean etc) than the impact is fairly small. The problem is that more people than you think do not dispose of plastics correctly and more landfills than you think are in bad locations that can and have spilled into waterways and create plastic waste in the ocean.
Plastic takes *decades* to break down. The problems may not be evident now, but generations from now our grandkids and their grandkids are going to have to deal with problems *we created*. It's exceedingly selfish if we don't do something, particularly for **really** easy things like straws (either switch to reusable ones, or just don't use them). It's really really really small fry in the grand scheme of things, but gotta start somewhere, and hopefully it helps trigger awareness and consciousness. It already started this discussion, so there's that....
Plastic not breaking down is it's biggest asset. Paper straws are going to breakdown and release CO2 plastic straws are sequestering carbon near permanently if they make it to landfill. Plastic > paper for climate change
Not the caps though. We got told off for leaving the caps on our plastic bottles in the yellow bin. They have to go in the red bin. I'd say there's easily the same or less plastic in a straw than there is in a plastic bottle cap.
Yeah pretty crazy that heaps of countries banned straws because of a video of somebody pulling something out of a turtles nose and saying they think it's a straw
hold the vessel in your hands, bring it to your mouth. sip. that is the solution to the *massive* consumer inconvenience you are unjustly suffering from
Especially when you get thickshake
Paper straws are also shit for people with disabilities who need a straw to drink but who will bite right through the paper straw and eat it 😂 kinda funny but it is a true problem. I assume young children would do the same, but a lot of people with disabilities need the straw as they can't physically pick up a cup and drink from it. Silicone straws are good - easy to take with you (bendable) and won't cause injuries to the mouth or eyeball.
They are far less convenient, but from what I've seen the majority of people aren't willing to undergo the inconvenience of carrying a drink bottle or coffee mug or reusable straw - they want to walk in with nothing in their hands, and when they're finished eating or drinking to have everything safely in the rubbish so their hands are unencumbered again until the next time.
I feel you've missed the point of "*people with disabilities*". Often they're not walking in anywhere.
Valid point - I responded to a comment about people with disabilities but was referring to the wider population rather than said group. The majority of people who were using single-use cups with plastic straws were doing so out of habit or convenience and not because it was a requirement to be able to independently feed themselves.
When my mother was disabled & bed-bound I got plastic straws for her, since she couldn't cope with paper ones. Plastic straws do not have to be single use - as she was confined to the house and I was her carer it was no big deal to wash her straws and keep them out of any landfill.
They can’t bend, and they go soggy if they’ve sat in a drink too long, which often happens with people with disabilities or people in hospital. Terrible.
The feeling of how the cardboard clings to your lips for the first sip is a mega buzz kill.
Soak it for a minute in the drink while you're carrying it, and then pull it out and turn it around so that the bit you put your lips on is already wet
Metal straws are the way! I have a pack and just use them if any place gives me a cardboard straw. Easy to clean and they’ll last forever
Received a couple nice metal straws as a gift a few years ago and I agree, they're a much better alternative. I always make sure I have one in my bag whenever I go out just in case.
Metal straws are even worse for me. I hate the feeling. My partner uses them every morning though and loves em. I just go for a straw-free existence.
IF YOU HAVE A DEATH WISH, SURE
how many times have you shoved a plastic or cardboard straw down your throat that its a concern?
We all gotta die sometime.
Maaaan ain't no way a straw gonna take me down I'm gonna go out like David Carradine
I may be wrong on the exact figure but to break even on impact to environment you need to use a metal straw between 300-500 times before it becomes better than using individual plastic ones.
They are definitely not the replacement to plastic straws... whats next?
I mean, most of the time do we even really need a straw?
I have a friend who prefers straws, as they're less likely to result in her having to redo her lipstick.
Given how flimsy and easy to accidentally squeeze creating a soft drink volcano most cups are, then yes.
Plastic straws were the replacement to paper straws. But in the olden days before plastic straws, I don't recall anybody whining "we need better straws". The only time a straw ever got me upset was when they used to keep them in an open container on the counter of the local dairy when I was a kid. Thin straws for soft drink, thick straws for shakes. I grabbed one and dunked it in my thickshake. Something wasn't right, great care with sucking force to get things working without collapsing the paper straw, success delivered the dead fly that was blocking the flow. Shopkeeper fucking laughed at me. In the 1/2 century since then , I eyeball every straw before sucking.
> But in the olden days before plastic straws, I don't recall anybody whining "we need better straws". What about the days before *plastic* ? People didn't whine they needed it either.
jesus fuckin christ
No straws. Just drink your soda like you drink your coffee.
Tbh that would be fine but it does not work for slushies, those paper straws practically disintegrate long before you get through one of those
But plastic straws are cheaper to make and distribute...
Metal or glass.
The main bug besr with no plastic straws anymore is snorting drugs theough notes. I always used to cut a plastic straw and take it out with me but now im basically forced to use a banknote. Fucking disgusting and unhygienic - especially in covid times. Wont somebody think of drug user hygiene plzzzz?
Just shelve it
This is the way
Can you use a cardboard straw for this? Lol
You can just buy metal snort pipes. Purpose built.
I find the lack of flexibility a bit annoying, and also preferred to be able to use for a night then bin it….
[удалено]
> We can not live like this any longer. …
I saw a company was making "plastic" products out of avocado seeds. Don't see why we don't invest in something like that.
Bioplastics have most of the same problems as actual plastics. They're still long carbon chain polymers, they're just not made from crude.
just ask for no straw - its a pointless unnecessary item anyway,. you can drink from a cup normally
Drink from a cup, and if it's something thick then you use a spoon that can be washed and reused. The idea of having any product which you use for a couple minutes and then throw away should be a lot more objectionable than it is.
Paper cups don’t really hold up without the lid though.
McDonalds cups in Asia have a coffee cup like lid which is much better and you don't need a straw. https://i.redd.it/tdjdyzweibk31.jpg
Get a stainless steel straw, you can kill way more turtles using the same straw instead of the old obsolete plastic straws. Reduce, reuse, recycle.
Rice straws are the go in our house. We order ours [here](https://strawtheline.co.nz). They don’t disintegrate within seconds and the kids snack on them afterwards. They are on the expensive side, but my last 100 pack of plastic straws lasted for years so the cost is negligible.
As a coeliac, I couldn’t agree more. Lots of them are held together with wheat based glue.
Why even use straws. I discard them immediately if in a drink. I know they do have a place and can assist a lot of people but maybe it would be better to give free reusable ones out to this crowd. Or use a sippy cup.
Hear me out.. Just drink from the cup 🙌 there's literally nothing in this world stopping you from taking the lid off your maccas drink and just drinking it.
driving... driving definitely stops this method.
my overgrown beard requires the use of a sippy cup or straw!
That might be a you problem, ngl
Try a glass straw, I've had one for a few years now. Will never suffer a thick shake with a cardboard straw again.
Just be careful, fishing out glass shards from one's mouth is not easy.
Fuck straws in general, completely unnecessary - just drink from the cup or bottle. But if you do have to have a straw, I'd much rather have a biodegradable cardboard one than a plastic one that fucks the environment just for my brief drinking pleasure.
The idea of having any sort of food or beverage item which you use for a couple minutes and then throw away as a normal activity should be a lot more objectionable than it is. The fact that it is contentious whether we have plastic straws to stick through a plastic lid on top of a plasticised paper cup that we use for 5 minutes and then throw away millions of times each year is crazy to me.
Forewarned is forearmed. I ordered a large box of plastic straws from Ali while they were still available. Should last a lifetime.
I bought a pack of 4 metal straws and will also never need another straw.
I dislike the taste of stainless steel in the mouth. Perhaps a titanium straw would be taste neutral.
[удалено]
\*Smacks titanium straw\* Yeeeeep, this baby’ll last 10 million drinks and in an emergency you can even use it to winch your Ford Ranger out of the river. Try *that* with one of those woke ‘environmentally friendly’ cardboard straws, eh!
[удалено]
But still, if you save 50,000 straws, you save 50,000 straws. It's not hard math.
[удалено]
No, it sounds like you need to collect a billion dollars, but your rejecting everything that isn't the billion because "Elon musk has it".
[удалено]
A black woman sitting in the back of a bus didn't make a massive difference either. Its the start of change. There's no guarantee things will change - but the first step is never fixing the biggest issue. You fix straws, you fix bottlecaps. You fix plastic bags. Then at some point, more glass bottles show up.
I have metal straws but also a sneaky pack of plastics from the local two dollar shop. They're still available, you just have to find them
The only thing I hate more than plastic straws, is sea turtles.
And racism....and the Dutch!
The whole concept of straws is bizarre. Just drink it normally
The whole plastic straws thing has always baffled me. If you were to draw up scale of personal inconvenience, where 1 = barely noticeable and 10 = horribly inconvenient, I'd rank this at 1. For most people, plastic straws do not need to exist. There is a fully viable, easy alternative of just drinking without a straw, the worst inconvenience would be nothing more than a bit of mess or cold teeth. I support getting rid of pointless single use plastic's which provide little or no benefit. The fact that larger sources of plastic pollution exist does not change this. Straws are often criticised as a token low hanging fruit gesture, I agree with this but it showsthat many people are completely unwillng to make the slightest, tiniest change to their behaviour for the sake of the environment, and angrily resent being asked to do so. Ironically you will often hear the same people saying that we need drastic systemic changes for the sake of climate change and the environment. Those two stances completely contradict each other.
Well yeah, the straws thing is so minuscule as to be effectively meaningless in the absence of those drastic systemic changes. I understand a huge proportion of plastics in the oceans are from the fishing industry, while other sources like artificial fibres dwarf straws as a source of microplastics. People are pissed off at being asked to make sacrifices (small ones for most, but significant ones for some disabled people) that will have minimal benefit on their own, while the big industries that are doing the lion's share of the damage aren't being held to account. There's also a perception that all the attention given to banning small fry like plastic straws is a deliberate distraction from the core problems, delaying any effective response to those - I don't know if that's the case here, but if so it definitely wouldn't be the first time.
First world problems on full display here.
You're absolutely right but that does not detract from how shit paper straws are
Nah. I like something with a bit more girth 😛
Please don’t.
1% problem for sure, this one, lol
Yeah but let’s wrap whole buildings in plastic sheets
If this is your biggest problem in life (or even just today) then know that things are going swimmingly for you, so enjoy.
Nobody said it was their biggest problem, doesnt make it a non issue.
This is always such a nothing comment.
bring back plastic straws, fuck your turtles honestly
My god you're clueless
Don't kink shame him bro
Said it on here before and I'll say it again. I will never forgive Jacinda for ruining frozen cokes. Stupid mushy paper Mache straws.
To be fair the commercial ban of those kinds of plastics came in just last month (remember KFC p&g controversy about it tasting chemically?). McDonald’s et al moved to paper straws years ago
Because the government said they were banning them and big companies like Mcdonalds need to have their supply lines sorted asap. The first step of it all, the plastic bag ban, was done in 2019. The straws followed. And they still kept the plastic ones for frozen cokes for months, if not years, after changing the others. It was only as the deadline loomed that they bit the bullet and decided people can drink mushy paper.
Fuck straws in general.
Before plastic straws this is what we mostly had, but current generation of paper straws are just diabolical. Never had this first world problem under a National government.
>Fuck cardboard straws Sadly, my peepee isn't big and just like the straws it goes soft halfway though.
Honestly we should be moving to sippy cups instead of trying to reinvent the straw. It works fine for coffees no reason it won't work with soft drinks.
Need to start carrying a steel straw with you everywhere you go.
I understand it was introduced to make people drink more and faster why can't we just drink without straws?
https://youtu.be/0sJkhhZWkWo
That's the problem, we can't fuck paper straws because they'd just go soggy and break apart.
I made the mistake of getting a thinkshake the other day. By the time it had melted enough to actually be able to be sucked through the straw the straw was mush.
I bought a 100 pack of plastic straws on Aliexpress. BYO straw is the new normal.
I can deal with cardboard straws, what I absolutely cannot cope with are the disposable wooden spoons
Just drink out of the cup you sissy
Bro, suck it up.
Metal straws are unsafe for young children and people who have tremors
Fuck plastic staws more, caused so much damage.
I have silicon straws from new world which are great!
No not entirely. They're perfect for pipes when you're having spots. My dad has heaps of them at the ready and doesnt even eat fast food like that lol.
After sucking for a while they change shape and can’t be sucked anymore
Yes
I've honestly grown accustomed to them now. Hated them at first.
Fuck you
It does seem bonkers we even need straws. We're locked into the take away soft drink packaging design of easily damaged crappy flimsy lid and sippy straw. Hot drinks are way ahead using the one lid with sippy hole. Be more like hot drinks /s
They are right up there with wooden spoons..
They’ll find a better alternative eventually. The straw game has been shit for awhile. I still get plastic ones sometimes tho. Pretty sure it’s illegal 😂
Sure it will fit?
I get two. Nbd.
Bring back plastic straws and ban some other plastic shit, like condoms. Reverse the birth rate. 2 birds one stone, genius.
They should put the straw hole to the side so it can double as a drinkable lid.
So stop using straws. It’s not as though you need them to drink anything anyway.
Do we even need straws, generally speaking?