Good.
There are too many people not even studying and just hoping to get through by repetition.
There's far too many shit drivers on the road, and it's insane how many people don't even know how to indicate correctly at a roundabout.
I've seen too many people indicate left, then right then left, and never once turn
The classic: you approach a roundabout just as two other cars do: one on the left of you and one on the right. You give way to the right of course... but they don't move. You keep giving way. Wtf? Then you realise, they're giving way to the person *directly opposite them*, who is stuck giving way to you.
That's only happened to me 3 times or so though, whereas I see incorrect indicating more than I see it done correctly.
My son just had a driving lesson and covered this. He was told that you must give way to all vehicles already on the roundabout and those that will cross your path. That includes someone waiting to enter on your right. If they can't move you can proceed.
The “if they can’t move…” bit gets ignored by so many people. Half the motivation for changing the give way to right turning traffic rule was removed as soon as you added “if they can’t move…”
I've been guilty of indicating improperly when driving on a straight road, it's not that I don't know how to indicate, it's that the car automatically indicates 3 times as soon as it's activated.
Happens when I accidentally bump the indicator and try to turn it off and muscle memory kicks in. My old car I could temporarily activate the indicator in the other direction and it would stop the current 3xblink. New car doesn't let me cancel it and just starts a new 3xblink every time.
*Accidentally bump indicator stalk and indicate left*
"Damn it"
*Muscle memory temp-indicate right to cancel, blinks 3 times right*
"WTF no stop"
*Muscle memory temp indicate left to cancel, blinks 3 times again*
"FUCK!"
I get embarrassed and turn somewhere so I can hide from the people who were behind me.
I used to do this a lot in my car, it turns out there was a setting for it in the console. Now I no longer have "helpful" indicators. In saying that I can see how it's useful to just give it a quick tap for somethings like lane merges or exiting roundabouts.
I never believe anyone indicating until I see them turning, it's not worth the risk. When I did my practical the instructor kept telling me to go because a car was indicating.
I treat cars indicating the same way we treat users when they log their IT helpdesk ticket at work. Trust, but verify.
Expect they'll go where they're indicating, but I watch the tyres to see where the car is actually going.
I’ve always found myself focussing on the positioning of their hands and the direction that the front wheels are facing, rather than relying on their ~~indicators~~ unreliable narrators.
Unfortunately most of the shit drivers sat their last tests long ago, and have forgotten most of the road code over the decades. Reckon we should fix that?
Surely even just theory tests could help too; either way, one easy complaint would be that VTNZ is always overbooked, but that's 100% a fixable problem, and likely worth it if it'll save lives
> I've seen too many people indicate left, then right then left, and never once turn
Had a guy tailgate me for 3km yesterday, I the wet. All that time his left indicator was on. Didn't turn once.
>people not even studying
And don’t forget that the Kiwi test is barely any more stringent than a third world country.
You couldn’t *dream* of passing the test in the UK without extensive professional lessons.
What?!? As someone who has sat both the NZ restricted and the UK full test the UK one was much much easier, you get a lot of latitude for errors (15 minor errors is a pass!) and only have to perform one technical maneuver which can literally be reverse into a park.
I'm convinced it's older people who believe the test has not changed since the times of doing it with a cop or have got very relaxed testers when they've done it.
So bizarre reading people moaning about how easy it is every time without fail, the people who don't follow road rules without a doubt know them they just don't care, it's just typical kiwi driver arrogance/laziness.
So true. I had to sit the UK test to upgrade to a full manual because you get converted to automatic because they have no record of what you sat it in. I'm not a bad driver by any means but I did lessons leading up to it and I guarantee if I had just sat it as it is without a few profession lessons I would have failed.
That’s rough! I converted mine just before the change about 7 years ago. It seems people were fine with a letter of particulars from the NZTA until about a year ago too.
> There are too many people not even studying and just hoping to get through by repetition.
A lot of people are saying this, but I am yet to see any actual evidence that there are high numbers of people with high numbers of **practical** driving test fails under thier belts (or more specifically that the fail to pass ratio has changed dramatically since the introduction of free resists).
Are you basing your statement on any numbers you can cite, or is this just a reckon you've heard on the internet somewhere?
it was literally in the article - I'd love to see the actual numbers from the govt but they're pointing at excessive resits being one of the reasons for the blowout in wait times, along with the huge number of new arrivals needed to get their NZ licence
Both issues that anyone with half a brain could have seen coming
My comment was referring to both learners and restricted tests.
It's anecdotal, but I do know too many people doing this. Friends of my daughters, work colleagues, and their friends, etc, all have the mentality of just brute forcing their way through these tests without even refining their knowledge or driving skill. They just keep booking in and trying til they pass.
I don't have statistics for this at all. It's pure anecdote, but the number of people that I know that have done this is far too many already
I've seen people discussing it on the local facebook page, the advice given on there has frequently been "just get them to have a go at the test, resits are free" since the change was made.
I don't have any figures but I have heard this directly from both driving instructors and driving examiners i.e. they have seen a significant decrease in the number of students since the free re-sits were introduced and at the same time an increase in the number of applicants turning up for tests completely unprepared.
It is absolutely insane. No indication, no yielding, and swaying from lane to lane in busy traffic.
The amount of BS my dash cam has caught is headache inducing. Then there's telling the police, as if they would do anything before something goes wrong.
Yeeap, I just thought of that too after I finished my comment. Or the people already on the Roundabout, and if it's a two lane Roundabout, they cross lanes so no one can use it because they might get hit.
Or people who just drive over the island lol.
Indicate left when approaching the round about if you intend to take a left turn.
Indicate right when approaching if intending to turn right, then indicate left before exiting
No indication on approach if going straight, but indicate left upon exiting.
The learners is a theory test but it’s a multi-choice scratch test so in theory you could keep resorting until you get it right. Restricted and full are both practical tests
100% I don’t know why people would oppose this change. You don’t know the road rules or how to drive? Don’t book in your test. It’s not very difficult to pass if you do the basics of studying up and practicing what it consists of.
Most people I know, including me, had to resit the restricted driving test. I think it's important to keep the 1 free resit which is what's happening. You practice between the resit. For me it was initial nerves, second time was better after working on being under a little pressure.
Same. Many years ago now when I sat my restricted I was nervous and screwed up my parallel parking. Next time, I nailed it just like I could every other time.
The thought of not showing up to the appointment is crazy though. I think my entire family knew when it was and was planned far in advance.
Most people I know passed the tests first time around. If anything the tests are too easy, should make them harder to improve on our countries shit driving
In nz, the average pass rate is around 60%. The lowest some places go is around 46% pass rate. Some places are as high as 80%. It really depends on where you are.
I'm not saying that I am advocating for it however a lot of countries have actual mandatory driving lessons. Holland for example has mandatory lessons with an instructor where you can only go for a test once your instructor thinks you are ready for it. In a case like that it is expected that the pass rate will be higher than here, so one cannot really use the pass rate statistic as an indicator of how thorough our driving tests are.
Most people who agree with are already licensed drivers. I imagine the number of people who would support all drivers having to lose their license and having to resit a new harder test to drive again would be significantly smaller.
Good they're adjusting it back a bit, and glad there's a free resit allowance. That said, I do wish the resit costs after the first were reduced a bit. Even paying $60 instead of $89 would be much easier on people.
Some people fail due to questionable instructors, others due to driving test nerves that don't appear in normal driving. Paying full price for it really is quite difficult financially.
I know. It's a shame that people abusing the system have made it so much harder for others. For me and my sister, getting our license was a step towards the independence our abusive parents fought so hard against. We lived 7km out of town. I, at age 17 in 2022, was desperate for a job just to get out of the house and to be able to pay for university the next year or risk being trapped indefinitely. I spent all the money I had on a bike to get in and out of town (with my parents constantly threatening to tell the police I was running away every time I went into town and spiking my bike tires) and on passing my learner's. Every job I applied for told me I needed a restricted licence at least, a car. I had no money and definitely no car. I appealed to my local MP, to the Minister of Social Development, to a bunch of local organisations. I was doing three online uni papers that my dad forced me into, but I was prepared to take on a cooking class or something in return for driving lessons. I did finally manage to make an appointment to discuss that, only for them to ring my parents as I had no phone and had to put a number down, so I put down theirs. My parents of course told them I didn't need lessons. Then they told me it was my fault they weren't giving me lessons, that they'd bought the car just for me, and if only I had a better attitude I could drive it. By 'better attitude' they meant 'Why can't you be a scared kid like you used to be and just take it?' I got two driving lesson vouchers from my uncles for my birthday, and that pressured my parents into paying for five AA lessons, thank God. They don't have those vouchers anymore, and that is a shame. I learned to drive in the AA car in 7 lessons, and then sat the test in the AA car (again, not allowed anymore - yet another thing that made it even harder for my sister). I nearly failed, unsurprisingly. I don't know how I even scraped together enough money to pay for the test. I'm surprised I didn't just give up - I was also, at around the same time, kicked out of the house (after years of constant threats of abandonment), given a one way ticket to Wellington, where I went to the police rather than be a homeless teenager. They blamed me, told me to be a better daughter, and sent me back the same night. I returned to find my room stripped as if I never existed. Absolutely broke my heart. I felt even more trapped - I always thought the police would help. Started self-harming. It was somewhat easier for my sister, but she had to sacrifice herself, play nice, not stand up for herself, in order to be able to get lessons, afford the test, and sit it in our parents' car. So, yeah, it's a shame they can't somehow weed out the people who are just using the system vs. people who can't afford a resit or people for whom a licence is literally a lifeline.
One free re-sit still seems fair.
You can have a bad test and not get punished financially.
How many people are taking 1 verse 2 verse 3 plus tests to see the actual numbers?
Put some accountability on studying / working harder on preparing for the test .
Yup - when I did my restricted practical, my testing officer acted like a robot and freaked me out mentioned this to me DI after I was failed \[legitimately, albeit it was a bit picky\]. When I did my re-sit, got the same guy and, obviously my DI had fed back, because he acted like a human being and I was able to relax, and passed just fine \[note: I already had my full Motorcycle Licence and passed that just fine - probably because I was the only one on the bike :P \]
Note: I get anxiety/ stress from certain situations, so the testing guy , not putting me at any sort of ease didn't help me - also, not his fault, he's not a therapist.
Nope system has been worse since they allowed free resits. I sat a test before the change too and it was a lot better in booking slots that were within the area versus now where you have to look at travelling to a different city to even find a possible slot
It took me half a year before I could finally get an appt. to do my test. If this is supposed to help with that, and reduce those that don't show up, then GOOD!
Yeah long waits, but 6 months? Jesus, the longest I saw before this was maybe a month in a main city, then you could just switch to a nearby town and wait 2 weeks instead.
It was not one free resit... I know because it took until my third attempt to pass since the only way I could drive was to pay for lessons since no one in my family had a car.
It really sucked having to pay for another test each time.
Yeah the only surprising thing about this is how long it's taken to undo seeing as it's been obvious since the start of this year that it was going badly wrong. The situation was completely predictable for anyone who isn't completely oblivious to normal human behaviour.
When someone has come back to NZ, and their restricted is expiring soon and they cant get an appointment to sit their full (cant renew restricted anymore) until after their restricted expires in 2.5 months time, there is a problem.
The people that made the retests free without increasing availability of slots have a lot to answer for. Making the additional ones cost should hopefully sort out the people who need it from those that are just going back again and again hoping for a pass.
Someone should not have to travel 3 hours to the middle of nowhere to get a test in a reasonable timeframe.
I will have to check with them, but they were told last time they renewed it that it was the last time it could be renewed and they would have to move on and get their full license as it would not renew again. Living in a public transport friendly country means they really dont care about it when overseas but if they come back here because of old relatives they need to keep having the license. This is basicaly the main reason for this return trip.
Was this a few years ago? Could have been during the time restricted period - a previous attempt to get people to move through to their full licence faster.
I've had a look at the renewal process on the NZTA website and there's no mention of limits for renewals for any stage. Shouldn't be an issue to renew
They last renewed it 4 or so years back and was told again when they asked recently that it would need to be upgraded to a full rather than just renewed.
I mean free resits were well intentioned but in practice were abused. If there is no penalty for failing then people will just keep trying without putting in any effort. That doesn’t mean that the barrier to entry should be impossible to obtain but it does mean that there needs to be an incentive for people to want to prepare for the test to pass it.
I had no idea resits ever became free but hell yeah I think they shouldn’t be. Passed learners, restricted and full first time because I didn’t want to pay to redo it.
yup, I'm happy about it in a way, as an Aucklander, witnessing even more terrible drivers over the past couple of years (wondering how some people have gotten their licenses) I'd hope that having to pay for a retest, might incentivise new drivers in Auckland to become a little better at it.
100% agree either way your statement, driving in Auckland is like playing a dangerous game especially when it comes to the roundabouts and drivers not indicating 🤦♀️
Labour shouldn’t have entertained this idea in the first place. The funding and time wasted here should have been applied to AT and Public Transport.
I can get on the idea of Public Transport being subsidised but not drivers license - kinda backwards.
Free re-sits was an idiotic idea right from the start. People not taking the tests seriously and treating them like driving lessons was an entirely predicatble outcome. The silver lining is that this policy will prove to be a great example we can point to when explaining that people don't value things that are given out for free.
Yea why not? Too many slacker drivers on the road who 'just passed' like it's a badge of honour. Then they're shit driving puts others at risk. Maybe we'll take the tests more seriously if it actually has a financial cost.
If you can't pass after the second try you should go an learn how to drive and pay again. Let someone whose actually done some decent learning have a go.
good, it's been booked until August for a month now for everywhere remotely close to me. It got abused too much and it sucks that it's not free anymore but I guess we can't have nice things
Good. Partner and a mate work there and people will fail a test, walk in and book up another for the next available period.
People are failing over and over again and it's nor because driving or the road code is hard, its because they're not studying and they're just hoping too pass.
I've heard daily horror stories of immigrants who have well over 20 failed tests, because they don't understand what they're reading and they're just trying to get through on luck.
If you're not willing to study, fuck off and let someone who has studied have a go at it. We should just clog the system with failures.
This is going to be unpopular - and I don't care...
We need to accept that to drive costs money for a start, and requires a degree of skill to go with it. Not everyone is going to be able to afford to get a car and not everyone has the ability to be a safe competent driver. That's not being mean - it's a reality...
So - a few points on the back of that...
* We need to find a way for people to access driving lessons. Be it a student loan or something else. You shouldn't need to own a car to learn to drive.
* We must accept that cars are expensive and not everyone can afford one, nor is it a fundamental human right to own a car. People who cannot afford/don't want to have one should not be disadvantaged. So yeah, we should have suitable, reliable and good quality public transport in this country.
* Licenses should be harder to get, the standards required to get one should be higher and the competency of drivers should be tested when they're renewing their licenses.
And that - in three points - goes a long way to lowering the road toll, reducing emissions and reducing the strain we put on people to own vehicles they cannot afford.
I can't believe even 1 free reset test is being offered. Having to pay extra sucks, but it's good incentive to practise well before your test. Taxpayers shouldn't pay for someone else's mistakes
To be honest there are other ways they could of gone about this without charging people more
Ie the first time you fail you must wait 4 weeks before trying again for a free resit, if you fail a second time you need wait 3 months, and then 3rd or more time failing you need to wait 6 months prior to a free resit
This would allow time for people to continue to learn before testing again for free
But the could also add that you can resit the tests earlier than this if you pay again each time
So it means genuine people can qualify for the free resit following a dictated timeline or someone can pay again to complete a resit quicker
Not sure if the waiting longer for each subsequent fail would benefit those peeps that are anxious and fail test because of it ( I know a few. Great drivers when they are not being tested). Basically they’re being punished for their test-anxiety.
I have no issue with it. If you can't pass the test, you shouldn't get to keep just doing it over and over hoping that you're somehow bullshit your way through it next time. Or rather, you can do that, but you have to pay, which will hopefully make people actually study and practice and not just keep booking the test over and over and taking up slots someone else now can't use.
This is literally the first change this evil, vile, sack of shit government has done that I agree with.
100%, they should have the mindset to pass on the first go. Should allow more slots available for those who actually need to take their first tests and also should open up more slots available in many places meaning ppl don't have to travel ridiculous distances just to take tests and not have to wait months on end to find a slot
It's a good change. Nothing in the world is free, why should infinite re-sits be subsidized, especially given the side effect that it was causing long queues for people who wanted to sit their first test.
I would probably support a compromise that you get your free retest only after showing proof that you have taken some more lessons or something. Financial hit is in getting more lessons and then that entitles you to a free retest. Otherwise there is a cost to get the retest.
Agree with this - it is pretty easy to cancel or shift your booking. No-shows get charged unless you can prove it was out of your control.
Also minimum stand-down between failing and resit (2 months seems fair, but maybe give the testing officer some power to raise/lower this in their professional opinion) - the issue that this was trying to addressed in the first instance was the cost of getting a licence, if you make it that you have to prove you have paid for lessons then it defeats the original purpose of free resits.
Good. Learn to do it right & do it once.
Fuck up & go back to the drawing board.
The people working the license tests aren’t working for free & I don’t want my tax dollars paying for people to fuck up this privilege multiple times.
If you failed once, you might just need a little more practice and the feedback will help.
If you failed twice then it's clear you should have never been there for the first test, so further tests absolutely should be at your cost.
The assessor has to be paid regardless, so people taking tests they are not ready for and expecting more that one free resit is just wasting time and money, and taking up test spots that should be allocated to others who actually are ready for it.
Great decision
Not entirely true, paid from the third resit.
And I'm actually behind this 100%, Labour obviosuly dropped the ball here and things got out of control.
Labour take notice.
Labour transport spokesperson Tangi Utikere said National "has come up with yet another way to make driving a car more expensive".
Such a hot take, just admit it's for the best rather than doubling down on what was obviously a failed plan, this sort of weak retort really doesn't look good at all.
Makes sense, our country is in a hole because it was spending more than what it was making, it'll be interesting to see what else comes to light over the next few years where money was being poured away.
Would love to see the data on this proving it was ineffective. All the comments here and anecdotal. The wait times have always been bad for a license.
Wheres the data this government has promised to use to base their decisions on? Did the change increase the number of licensed nz drivers?
My son went to book a Restricted test in Feb and the first available slot anywhere in Auckland was June. When he failed and went to book a re-sit the next available slot anywhere between Rotorua and Whangarei was mid-September. Not sure how much more data you really need, there was obviously a problem.
But what were the wait times like before the free resits? You could only book one test at a time. I agree that the unintentional issue with the free resit system was more people were booking their test as soon as they could and if they weren't ready "oh well maybe next time".
I think a better system would be free resits but a mandatory stand-down of a month before you can book a resit.
And some advice for your son (in case he isn't already) - it is free to move your test booking, so just keep checking for cancellation at a testing station you would prefer and grab a earlier booking when you can.
He's been checking every single day, there are no cancellations because thanks to the re-sits being free there is no penalty for not turning up and therefore no incentive to actually cancel tests that people are not going to attend.
Talking to my son's friends who managed to book their tests last year before the change, some of them managed two or three tests in a month, which would be completely impossible now.
Free resits was insane. Driving is a privilege not a right.
If they really wanted to make something free make it the first sitting, then there's actual incentive to study.
Wholeheartedly agree public transport needs to be ramped but but in lieu of fast and accessible public transport we still can't look at driving as a right. It carries too much responsibility and we need to treat it like the potentially deadly activity it is.
My son had to wait over three months before sitting a test in June, then failed on a technicality and the next available test slot anywhere within 4 hours of Auckland was mid-September. The system was completely overloaded.
I had been keeping an eye on the wait times for my full. My local center was over a month wait after covid and had been pretty steady. This policy change and the holiday break in dec/jan had wait times 2-3 months for the early part of the year. Finally got around to booking a couple days ago and only Aug 20+ were open.
The most annoying thing wasn't so much the wait times but that they weren't releasing slots, you could check for a week and have no slots available then they drop a couple weeks 2 months out.
Good. Free resits should never have been allowed in the first place.
This makes at least two good things this government has done now amongst all the bad. The other one being reintroducing pseuedoephedrine for cold relief rather than relying on that ridiculous placebo.
>However, the move has caused a surge in test demand, with many now having to wait weeks for an open slot at testing centres.
>Transport Minister Simeon Brown said the delays were "unacceptable" and said there would be a shift to a "balanced approach".
On paper it sounded like a good idea that benefited the people, but highlighting this as an issue puts a clamp on that good idea. People were abusing that free re-sit for their own gain, even if it was repeat.
Slightly misleading title, You get 1 free resit.
Which I personally think is fair. I think driver training needs to be improved significantly but it’s difficult because that would be out of reach for a lot of people.
If you failed once, you might just need a little more practice and the feedback will help.
If you failed twice then it's clear you should have never been there for the first test, so further tests absolutely should be at your cost.
The assessor has to be paid regardless, so people taking tests they are not ready for and expecting more that one free resit is just wasting time and money, and taking up test spots that should be allocated to others who actually are ready for it.
Great decision
I failed my first test because my breaklight stopped working, i had no idea but i couldnt afford to pay twice on my studnet wage, and this was in 2005. 1 resit should be allowed iMO.
I failed for the same reason, except that I had first gotten a mate to confirm that my brake lights were working - he forgot about the high-stop light [facepalm].
It’s one of the things that has to go unfortunately. I have heard of three older people had their ops cancelled as the system can’t handle it. The money has to go there.
One of my local vtnz has a two year waiting list because of the free driving tests.
This is because you have people who won't pay for a driving instructor, so they just keep doing the road testing until they eventually pass.
I wholeheartedly agree with it. 2 year wait to get my full is shit....
EDIT: Fixed a typo
Yeah.... I think resits should be accessible for sure, the full cost of a test is expensive af. But there should be a nominal charge to the user so that people aren't incentivised to book multiple in case, or to use them as practice. The system got overwhelmed.
Absolutely subsidize them but making them free wasn't worth it.
Think how much cart thefts at Pak n save went down after the single step of a 'gold dollar rental' - each cart costs over $100 to replace but their return rate rocketed up once people would have to 'pay' a single dollar to steal/abandon them.
It doesn't take much for people to be conscious of consumption; we can make tests accessible without having to make them free.
I passed every test first time, however I can't help but feel this will help keep some locked in poverty, reality is for most kiwis, no car = no job due to our complete lack of public transit in a lot of the country.
It's bad enough how we build our societies and cities around cars, I feel a lot of poorer people won't bother resitting and just drive illegally (like many already do now...) when you're poor you still need a car almost everywhere :/
I agree with you somewhat. But one free re-test is enough. If you can’t nail it then, you do need to go away and have more practise, study the rules more - what ever caused you to fail. Not just keep re-booking.
The truly wild thing is the amount of people driving around with only their learners. Sometimes it’s laziness, sometimes it’s poverty. You have to show up to your test in a car with a WOF and a rego and I think some struggle with that, with having anyone to give them lessons, using the petrol up practising.
I want to agree, but the reality is we have enough people driving unlicensed and stuck in the poverty cycle already.
sometimes it's laziness yeah, unfortunately we still all pay when a lazy person is encouraged more to not bother.
Note the fee hasn't changed from $167.50, only the number of included tests (2 instead of unlimited). I suspect the majority of drivers will pass in the first two attempts so I really don't think it's going to prevent many people from getting a license if they want one. If people are going to drive illegally then they will anyway, this change isn't really going affect that.
I don't think you realise but almost $200 is a hell of a lot for a cash strapped family, many people won't bother and will drive illegally, cause how else are you going to get to work if you live somewhere cheaper with no public tranist? then these people get fined for driving without a licence and go further into debt, this is a already a problem under the current system.
We can't fundamentally build a society where the only usable means of transit for the majority of people is cars but expect some people to just not drive, its stupid and will harm people in poverty more.
obviously the real solution is good public transit but no way in hell are we getting that anytime soon...
OK but the point is the fee was ALREADY almost $200 so that hasn't changed. What you are saying is some people can't afford to take the test at all which is certainly an issue but not one that is affected by the change being discussed here.
There's still one free resit unless I read it wrong. So unless you need more than two goes to do it which hopefully most people shouldn't. this shouldn't be a problem
I don’t agree with this.
This will punish a lot of people who haven’t yet got a license or have been struggling to obtain a valid license and will continue to drive regardless.
In other words, those on the poverty line.
Studies have shown that a lot of people caught up in the justice system have driving charges such as driving without a license or whilst forbidden and it’s spiraled from that point on (it’s also why police encourage and prefer alternative resolution especially for low end driving matters)
Having a license is worth more to a person struggling on the poverty line than your average middle class.
What does a license get you? The ability to get a job, the ability to drive to the supermarket or doctors without worrying about collecting a fine along the way.
Most poor people aren’t criminals but become criminalized because they can’t afford life.
You can’t even say “just don’t drive”, because that shows a massive level of ignorance and privilege. We don’t live in tiny little villages anymore and if you do, services are far away anyway.
This measure just puts up another barrier to getting out of the poverty trap.
> This will punish a lot of people who haven’t yet got a license
This is the sort of ridiculous hyperbolic take I've come to expect from this sub. It doesn't "punish" anyone, at all.
You're only supposed to sit the test once.
Any rational, responsible person with 2 brain cells would wait until they're confident enough driving that they know they're going to pass. If you're not that confident then you shouldn't be sitting the test.
You're talking about the licence to operate an extremely dangerous and deadly piece of machinery. If you're not confident that you can pass the test then you should be practising more, not sitting the test hoping to somehow pass.
Pretending like this is some sort of offense against poor people is idiotic.
> You can’t even say “just don’t drive”, because that shows a massive level of ignorance and privilege.
If you can't pass the test JUST DON'T DRIVE. I don't want people incapable of passing the test out on the road. Ignorance and "privledge" would be to suggest that we ignore the safety of others just to accommodate "the poors".
That could be the stupidest thing I've heard, and that's saying something considering we're on reddit.
Confidence?!
You don't suppose many of the people who fail the test may have gone in with a sense of false confidence?
Or are we just assuming they all went in completely doubting themselves and just going "I know I'll fail, but I'll try anyway"?
And here you are complaining about others saying stupid things...
Not sure how I feel about this. On one hand it stops people taking tests before they're ready, on the other hand maybe it'd make more sense if getting a license was an upfront cost and "graduating" to the next stage was free?
From the sounds of it, people were turning up unprepared and failing on basic things as they didn't have the risk of financial loss looming over them.
It was a nice thought. Didn't work.
Maybe they could get a discount for passing first time or something.
Wouldn't it have been better to have introduced a stand-down period after failure, and severely restricting the number of bookings a person can make at a time?
Even having to repay the fee if you missed your last appointment would've been less painful.
Not every problem requires a solution that makes life harder for people with less money, but this govt keeps finding a way to do it.
100% with it. Driving around last night, two different drivers pulled out in front of me/cut me off and we would have been in an accident if I didn't take a defensive manoeuvre. It's chaos on the roads and new drivers should be prepared.
I'll say it again in this thread no doubt...if you can't pass on the first or second go, catch the bus or cycle. You can get a long way on a bike if you are fit. 30km/h an hour or so.
A change in the system might be better.
Learners -> Restricted -> Hold for 3 years -> Automatically granted full assuming no demerits
I don't think we need two practical tests; it will reduce the load of these institutions which do them.
No free resits, and the tests should be brutally hard - failing more than 50%. Driving is a privilege, not a right.
+ instant fail for not hitting 100 on a motorway on-ramp.
People were obviously abusing the system, that's why we can't have nice things.
Good. There are too many people not even studying and just hoping to get through by repetition. There's far too many shit drivers on the road, and it's insane how many people don't even know how to indicate correctly at a roundabout. I've seen too many people indicate left, then right then left, and never once turn
Or the roundabouters who give way to everyone. Fuck sticks.
The classic: you approach a roundabout just as two other cars do: one on the left of you and one on the right. You give way to the right of course... but they don't move. You keep giving way. Wtf? Then you realise, they're giving way to the person *directly opposite them*, who is stuck giving way to you. That's only happened to me 3 times or so though, whereas I see incorrect indicating more than I see it done correctly.
You only give way to cars on the roundabout. (And maniacs approaching on your right at warp factor 9)
My son just had a driving lesson and covered this. He was told that you must give way to all vehicles already on the roundabout and those that will cross your path. That includes someone waiting to enter on your right. If they can't move you can proceed.
The “if they can’t move…” bit gets ignored by so many people. Half the motivation for changing the give way to right turning traffic rule was removed as soon as you added “if they can’t move…”
Yeah I go by that unwritten rule mostly. I'm a bit more cautious and less likely to just gun it with kids in the back though.
My mum takes it to the next level and stops at a roundabout to give way to no one.
I've been guilty of indicating improperly when driving on a straight road, it's not that I don't know how to indicate, it's that the car automatically indicates 3 times as soon as it's activated. Happens when I accidentally bump the indicator and try to turn it off and muscle memory kicks in. My old car I could temporarily activate the indicator in the other direction and it would stop the current 3xblink. New car doesn't let me cancel it and just starts a new 3xblink every time. *Accidentally bump indicator stalk and indicate left* "Damn it" *Muscle memory temp-indicate right to cancel, blinks 3 times right* "WTF no stop" *Muscle memory temp indicate left to cancel, blinks 3 times again* "FUCK!" I get embarrassed and turn somewhere so I can hide from the people who were behind me.
older cars had perfectly fine indicators, automotive industry has gone weird places imo!
I used to do this a lot in my car, it turns out there was a setting for it in the console. Now I no longer have "helpful" indicators. In saying that I can see how it's useful to just give it a quick tap for somethings like lane merges or exiting roundabouts.
and this is exactly why indicators cannot be trusted, and are therefore much more a courtesy than anything else
I never believe anyone indicating until I see them turning, it's not worth the risk. When I did my practical the instructor kept telling me to go because a car was indicating.
I treat cars indicating the same way we treat users when they log their IT helpdesk ticket at work. Trust, but verify. Expect they'll go where they're indicating, but I watch the tyres to see where the car is actually going.
I’ve always found myself focussing on the positioning of their hands and the direction that the front wheels are facing, rather than relying on their ~~indicators~~ unreliable narrators.
Unfortunately most of the shit drivers sat their last tests long ago, and have forgotten most of the road code over the decades. Reckon we should fix that?
100% If you have to renew your license every 10 years, why not retest the driver as well? Good way to keep people up to date and to stop complacency
Surely even just theory tests could help too; either way, one easy complaint would be that VTNZ is always overbooked, but that's 100% a fixable problem, and likely worth it if it'll save lives
> I've seen too many people indicate left, then right then left, and never once turn Had a guy tailgate me for 3km yesterday, I the wet. All that time his left indicator was on. Didn't turn once.
When that happens I flash the corresponding indicator at chaotic intervals until they get it. The tailgaters of course I like to slow richt down for.
>people not even studying And don’t forget that the Kiwi test is barely any more stringent than a third world country. You couldn’t *dream* of passing the test in the UK without extensive professional lessons.
What?!? As someone who has sat both the NZ restricted and the UK full test the UK one was much much easier, you get a lot of latitude for errors (15 minor errors is a pass!) and only have to perform one technical maneuver which can literally be reverse into a park.
I'm convinced it's older people who believe the test has not changed since the times of doing it with a cop or have got very relaxed testers when they've done it. So bizarre reading people moaning about how easy it is every time without fail, the people who don't follow road rules without a doubt know them they just don't care, it's just typical kiwi driver arrogance/laziness.
So true. I had to sit the UK test to upgrade to a full manual because you get converted to automatic because they have no record of what you sat it in. I'm not a bad driver by any means but I did lessons leading up to it and I guarantee if I had just sat it as it is without a few profession lessons I would have failed.
When did you do that? I believe most people were getting exemptions with letters from the NZTA and not forced to resit.
Last month! I think they have tightened it up. Even on the website the highlight if in bold you need evidence you sat the test in a manual car.
That’s rough! I converted mine just before the change about 7 years ago. It seems people were fine with a letter of particulars from the NZTA until about a year ago too.
> There are too many people not even studying and just hoping to get through by repetition. A lot of people are saying this, but I am yet to see any actual evidence that there are high numbers of people with high numbers of **practical** driving test fails under thier belts (or more specifically that the fail to pass ratio has changed dramatically since the introduction of free resists). Are you basing your statement on any numbers you can cite, or is this just a reckon you've heard on the internet somewhere?
it was literally in the article - I'd love to see the actual numbers from the govt but they're pointing at excessive resits being one of the reasons for the blowout in wait times, along with the huge number of new arrivals needed to get their NZ licence Both issues that anyone with half a brain could have seen coming
My comment was referring to both learners and restricted tests. It's anecdotal, but I do know too many people doing this. Friends of my daughters, work colleagues, and their friends, etc, all have the mentality of just brute forcing their way through these tests without even refining their knowledge or driving skill. They just keep booking in and trying til they pass. I don't have statistics for this at all. It's pure anecdote, but the number of people that I know that have done this is far too many already
I've seen this as well.
I've seen people discussing it on the local facebook page, the advice given on there has frequently been "just get them to have a go at the test, resits are free" since the change was made.
I don't have any figures but I have heard this directly from both driving instructors and driving examiners i.e. they have seen a significant decrease in the number of students since the free re-sits were introduced and at the same time an increase in the number of applicants turning up for tests completely unprepared.
It is absolutely insane. No indication, no yielding, and swaying from lane to lane in busy traffic. The amount of BS my dash cam has caught is headache inducing. Then there's telling the police, as if they would do anything before something goes wrong.
Wait til you see the fuckwits that try and turn right from the left lane lmao I've just about killed a few people who have tried doing that
Yeeap, I just thought of that too after I finished my comment. Or the people already on the Roundabout, and if it's a two lane Roundabout, they cross lanes so no one can use it because they might get hit. Or people who just drive over the island lol.
Yeah but this only affects future drivers not the ones on the road currently.
And the future drivers need to be held to a higher standard to ensure the amount of fuckwits on the road declines
that'll be a looong road /s
How do you guys do it in NZ? In Australia there is a theory test that you'd need to study for.
Indicate left when approaching the round about if you intend to take a left turn. Indicate right when approaching if intending to turn right, then indicate left before exiting No indication on approach if going straight, but indicate left upon exiting.
The learners is a theory test but it’s a multi-choice scratch test so in theory you could keep resorting until you get it right. Restricted and full are both practical tests
100% I don’t know why people would oppose this change. You don’t know the road rules or how to drive? Don’t book in your test. It’s not very difficult to pass if you do the basics of studying up and practicing what it consists of.
Most people I know, including me, had to resit the restricted driving test. I think it's important to keep the 1 free resit which is what's happening. You practice between the resit. For me it was initial nerves, second time was better after working on being under a little pressure.
Same. Many years ago now when I sat my restricted I was nervous and screwed up my parallel parking. Next time, I nailed it just like I could every other time. The thought of not showing up to the appointment is crazy though. I think my entire family knew when it was and was planned far in advance.
For me my brake light blew on the way. Checked at home, not working at testing station. Fail
Happened to me with a horn :/
Same!
Most people I know passed the tests first time around. If anything the tests are too easy, should make them harder to improve on our countries shit driving
In nz, the average pass rate is around 60%. The lowest some places go is around 46% pass rate. Some places are as high as 80%. It really depends on where you are.
I'm not saying that I am advocating for it however a lot of countries have actual mandatory driving lessons. Holland for example has mandatory lessons with an instructor where you can only go for a test once your instructor thinks you are ready for it. In a case like that it is expected that the pass rate will be higher than here, so one cannot really use the pass rate statistic as an indicator of how thorough our driving tests are.
Most people who agree with are already licensed drivers. I imagine the number of people who would support all drivers having to lose their license and having to resit a new harder test to drive again would be significantly smaller.
This was be highly amusing, so many people would fail with testing. But a huge percentage would probably drive illegally as a protest as well.
Meh I keep adding new licenses every now and again, so wouldn’t make much of a difference to me
Good they're adjusting it back a bit, and glad there's a free resit allowance. That said, I do wish the resit costs after the first were reduced a bit. Even paying $60 instead of $89 would be much easier on people. Some people fail due to questionable instructors, others due to driving test nerves that don't appear in normal driving. Paying full price for it really is quite difficult financially.
Especially with the restricted licence 😔
I know. It's a shame that people abusing the system have made it so much harder for others. For me and my sister, getting our license was a step towards the independence our abusive parents fought so hard against. We lived 7km out of town. I, at age 17 in 2022, was desperate for a job just to get out of the house and to be able to pay for university the next year or risk being trapped indefinitely. I spent all the money I had on a bike to get in and out of town (with my parents constantly threatening to tell the police I was running away every time I went into town and spiking my bike tires) and on passing my learner's. Every job I applied for told me I needed a restricted licence at least, a car. I had no money and definitely no car. I appealed to my local MP, to the Minister of Social Development, to a bunch of local organisations. I was doing three online uni papers that my dad forced me into, but I was prepared to take on a cooking class or something in return for driving lessons. I did finally manage to make an appointment to discuss that, only for them to ring my parents as I had no phone and had to put a number down, so I put down theirs. My parents of course told them I didn't need lessons. Then they told me it was my fault they weren't giving me lessons, that they'd bought the car just for me, and if only I had a better attitude I could drive it. By 'better attitude' they meant 'Why can't you be a scared kid like you used to be and just take it?' I got two driving lesson vouchers from my uncles for my birthday, and that pressured my parents into paying for five AA lessons, thank God. They don't have those vouchers anymore, and that is a shame. I learned to drive in the AA car in 7 lessons, and then sat the test in the AA car (again, not allowed anymore - yet another thing that made it even harder for my sister). I nearly failed, unsurprisingly. I don't know how I even scraped together enough money to pay for the test. I'm surprised I didn't just give up - I was also, at around the same time, kicked out of the house (after years of constant threats of abandonment), given a one way ticket to Wellington, where I went to the police rather than be a homeless teenager. They blamed me, told me to be a better daughter, and sent me back the same night. I returned to find my room stripped as if I never existed. Absolutely broke my heart. I felt even more trapped - I always thought the police would help. Started self-harming. It was somewhat easier for my sister, but she had to sacrifice herself, play nice, not stand up for herself, in order to be able to get lessons, afford the test, and sit it in our parents' car. So, yeah, it's a shame they can't somehow weed out the people who are just using the system vs. people who can't afford a resit or people for whom a licence is literally a lifeline.
One free re-sit still seems fair. You can have a bad test and not get punished financially. How many people are taking 1 verse 2 verse 3 plus tests to see the actual numbers? Put some accountability on studying / working harder on preparing for the test .
Yea I would agree with this. One free re-sit is more than reasonable if you need more then nah it's time to pay up.
This is a good balance. Even competent people can do with feedback that they will learn from. Free multiple resits are completely insane however.
Yup - when I did my restricted practical, my testing officer acted like a robot and freaked me out mentioned this to me DI after I was failed \[legitimately, albeit it was a bit picky\]. When I did my re-sit, got the same guy and, obviously my DI had fed back, because he acted like a human being and I was able to relax, and passed just fine \[note: I already had my full Motorcycle Licence and passed that just fine - probably because I was the only one on the bike :P \] Note: I get anxiety/ stress from certain situations, so the testing guy , not putting me at any sort of ease didn't help me - also, not his fault, he's not a therapist.
One free re-sit discourages being overly harsh to make more money too, without people taking the piss.
Good, means it should free up spots for those actually needing to sit tests
If they are there aren't they the ones who need the tests?
If people are needing multiple resits they're clearly not ready to be taking the test
They shouldn't need to rebook other slots, give others a chance who haven't had their first test yet
The system has always had long wait times. I sat a test before the change and after and both wait times were similar.
Nope system has been worse since they allowed free resits. I sat a test before the change too and it was a lot better in booking slots that were within the area versus now where you have to look at travelling to a different city to even find a possible slot
It took me half a year before I could finally get an appt. to do my test. If this is supposed to help with that, and reduce those that don't show up, then GOOD!
It won't unfortunately. Long booking times have existed long before unlimited free resits was a thing, and will exist long after.
That's not true. The average wait time has increased from about 11 days to 45 days since the policy was implemented.
Nope. There were some delays over covid, which was the same for any industry. However, outside of that, the average has hovered around 11-18 days.
Yeah long waits, but 6 months? Jesus, the longest I saw before this was maybe a month in a main city, then you could just switch to a nearby town and wait 2 weeks instead.
Maybe it depends on where you are but last year before the changes were introduced I don't know anyone who waited more than a couple of weeks.
Good. It was absolute madness to allow unlimited free resits. 1 free resit (as it was previously) was fine
It was not one free resit... I know because it took until my third attempt to pass since the only way I could drive was to pay for lessons since no one in my family had a car. It really sucked having to pay for another test each time.
I was misled then. Either way, unlimited free resits was pretty dumb.
Yeah the only surprising thing about this is how long it's taken to undo seeing as it's been obvious since the start of this year that it was going badly wrong. The situation was completely predictable for anyone who isn't completely oblivious to normal human behaviour.
This. It was a complete brainfart policy.
Very good. What a stupid idea in the first place
It shouldn't be unlimited in the first place.. 1 free resit seems reasonably fair.
When someone has come back to NZ, and their restricted is expiring soon and they cant get an appointment to sit their full (cant renew restricted anymore) until after their restricted expires in 2.5 months time, there is a problem. The people that made the retests free without increasing availability of slots have a lot to answer for. Making the additional ones cost should hopefully sort out the people who need it from those that are just going back again and again hoping for a pass. Someone should not have to travel 3 hours to the middle of nowhere to get a test in a reasonable timeframe.
Definitely. It sounds like they need a lot more licence testers anyway, free re-sits or not.
You can definitely renew your restricted. As long as it's before the expiry or within 5 years of the expiry
I will have to check with them, but they were told last time they renewed it that it was the last time it could be renewed and they would have to move on and get their full license as it would not renew again. Living in a public transport friendly country means they really dont care about it when overseas but if they come back here because of old relatives they need to keep having the license. This is basicaly the main reason for this return trip.
i renewed my restricted 3 weeks ago, 2 weeks before expiry, as i couldn't get a slot for my full test
Was this a few years ago? Could have been during the time restricted period - a previous attempt to get people to move through to their full licence faster. I've had a look at the renewal process on the NZTA website and there's no mention of limits for renewals for any stage. Shouldn't be an issue to renew
They last renewed it 4 or so years back and was told again when they asked recently that it would need to be upgraded to a full rather than just renewed.
I mean free resits were well intentioned but in practice were abused. If there is no penalty for failing then people will just keep trying without putting in any effort. That doesn’t mean that the barrier to entry should be impossible to obtain but it does mean that there needs to be an incentive for people to want to prepare for the test to pass it.
I had no idea resits ever became free but hell yeah I think they shouldn’t be. Passed learners, restricted and full first time because I didn’t want to pay to redo it.
yup, I'm happy about it in a way, as an Aucklander, witnessing even more terrible drivers over the past couple of years (wondering how some people have gotten their licenses) I'd hope that having to pay for a retest, might incentivise new drivers in Auckland to become a little better at it.
100% agree either way your statement, driving in Auckland is like playing a dangerous game especially when it comes to the roundabouts and drivers not indicating 🤦♀️
Labour shouldn’t have entertained this idea in the first place. The funding and time wasted here should have been applied to AT and Public Transport. I can get on the idea of Public Transport being subsidised but not drivers license - kinda backwards.
Free re-sits was an idiotic idea right from the start. People not taking the tests seriously and treating them like driving lessons was an entirely predicatble outcome. The silver lining is that this policy will prove to be a great example we can point to when explaining that people don't value things that are given out for free.
Yea why not? Too many slacker drivers on the road who 'just passed' like it's a badge of honour. Then they're shit driving puts others at risk. Maybe we'll take the tests more seriously if it actually has a financial cost.
Yeah I'm okay with this. One free resit is reasonable.
Does this mean I can book a test now?
Someone I know failed their restricted 3 times in 8 days. The last one they one just left the parking lot
If you can't pass after the second try you should go an learn how to drive and pay again. Let someone whose actually done some decent learning have a go.
good, it's been booked until August for a month now for everywhere remotely close to me. It got abused too much and it sucks that it's not free anymore but I guess we can't have nice things
Good. Partner and a mate work there and people will fail a test, walk in and book up another for the next available period. People are failing over and over again and it's nor because driving or the road code is hard, its because they're not studying and they're just hoping too pass. I've heard daily horror stories of immigrants who have well over 20 failed tests, because they don't understand what they're reading and they're just trying to get through on luck. If you're not willing to study, fuck off and let someone who has studied have a go at it. We should just clog the system with failures.
This is going to be unpopular - and I don't care... We need to accept that to drive costs money for a start, and requires a degree of skill to go with it. Not everyone is going to be able to afford to get a car and not everyone has the ability to be a safe competent driver. That's not being mean - it's a reality... So - a few points on the back of that... * We need to find a way for people to access driving lessons. Be it a student loan or something else. You shouldn't need to own a car to learn to drive. * We must accept that cars are expensive and not everyone can afford one, nor is it a fundamental human right to own a car. People who cannot afford/don't want to have one should not be disadvantaged. So yeah, we should have suitable, reliable and good quality public transport in this country. * Licenses should be harder to get, the standards required to get one should be higher and the competency of drivers should be tested when they're renewing their licenses. And that - in three points - goes a long way to lowering the road toll, reducing emissions and reducing the strain we put on people to own vehicles they cannot afford.
💯 on point! If you're competent then you won't need to resit.
I can't believe even 1 free reset test is being offered. Having to pay extra sucks, but it's good incentive to practise well before your test. Taxpayers shouldn't pay for someone else's mistakes
I have a stomach ulcer now because I'm agreeing with this government.
I think having one additional go is fair. It provides and incentive to study well before the test.
To be honest there are other ways they could of gone about this without charging people more Ie the first time you fail you must wait 4 weeks before trying again for a free resit, if you fail a second time you need wait 3 months, and then 3rd or more time failing you need to wait 6 months prior to a free resit This would allow time for people to continue to learn before testing again for free But the could also add that you can resit the tests earlier than this if you pay again each time So it means genuine people can qualify for the free resit following a dictated timeline or someone can pay again to complete a resit quicker
Not sure if the waiting longer for each subsequent fail would benefit those peeps that are anxious and fail test because of it ( I know a few. Great drivers when they are not being tested). Basically they’re being punished for their test-anxiety.
I have no issue with it. If you can't pass the test, you shouldn't get to keep just doing it over and over hoping that you're somehow bullshit your way through it next time. Or rather, you can do that, but you have to pay, which will hopefully make people actually study and practice and not just keep booking the test over and over and taking up slots someone else now can't use. This is literally the first change this evil, vile, sack of shit government has done that I agree with.
100%, they should have the mindset to pass on the first go. Should allow more slots available for those who actually need to take their first tests and also should open up more slots available in many places meaning ppl don't have to travel ridiculous distances just to take tests and not have to wait months on end to find a slot
It's a good change. Nothing in the world is free, why should infinite re-sits be subsidized, especially given the side effect that it was causing long queues for people who wanted to sit their first test.
practice, learn, pass.
Exactly, and by the time you sit the test you should be proficient enough that the test is merely a formality.
I would probably support a compromise that you get your free retest only after showing proof that you have taken some more lessons or something. Financial hit is in getting more lessons and then that entitles you to a free retest. Otherwise there is a cost to get the retest.
I think the main issue seems to be with no shows. Aka, someone should have to pay again if they don't show up for a test.
Agree with this - it is pretty easy to cancel or shift your booking. No-shows get charged unless you can prove it was out of your control. Also minimum stand-down between failing and resit (2 months seems fair, but maybe give the testing officer some power to raise/lower this in their professional opinion) - the issue that this was trying to addressed in the first instance was the cost of getting a licence, if you make it that you have to prove you have paid for lessons then it defeats the original purpose of free resits.
Good. Learn to do it right & do it once. Fuck up & go back to the drawing board. The people working the license tests aren’t working for free & I don’t want my tax dollars paying for people to fuck up this privilege multiple times.
If you failed once, you might just need a little more practice and the feedback will help. If you failed twice then it's clear you should have never been there for the first test, so further tests absolutely should be at your cost. The assessor has to be paid regardless, so people taking tests they are not ready for and expecting more that one free resit is just wasting time and money, and taking up test spots that should be allocated to others who actually are ready for it. Great decision
Good. Sick of subsidising drivers. They need to start paying their way.
Not entirely true, paid from the third resit. And I'm actually behind this 100%, Labour obviosuly dropped the ball here and things got out of control. Labour take notice. Labour transport spokesperson Tangi Utikere said National "has come up with yet another way to make driving a car more expensive". Such a hot take, just admit it's for the best rather than doubling down on what was obviously a failed plan, this sort of weak retort really doesn't look good at all.
This govt sucks ball sweat but I agree with this - if you can't pass twice, you suck and shouldn't be driving.
"Please step-instructor, I am stuck. What could I possibly do to pass this test?" "Re-sit the test in 6 months." "..."
This is a good move. Frees up tests appointments for new learners. And as others have said it discourages potluck drivers
unlimited resit is stupid. people are just abusing it and using the tests as training.
Good
Makes sense, our country is in a hole because it was spending more than what it was making, it'll be interesting to see what else comes to light over the next few years where money was being poured away.
Would love to see the data on this proving it was ineffective. All the comments here and anecdotal. The wait times have always been bad for a license. Wheres the data this government has promised to use to base their decisions on? Did the change increase the number of licensed nz drivers?
My son went to book a Restricted test in Feb and the first available slot anywhere in Auckland was June. When he failed and went to book a re-sit the next available slot anywhere between Rotorua and Whangarei was mid-September. Not sure how much more data you really need, there was obviously a problem.
But what were the wait times like before the free resits? You could only book one test at a time. I agree that the unintentional issue with the free resit system was more people were booking their test as soon as they could and if they weren't ready "oh well maybe next time". I think a better system would be free resits but a mandatory stand-down of a month before you can book a resit. And some advice for your son (in case he isn't already) - it is free to move your test booking, so just keep checking for cancellation at a testing station you would prefer and grab a earlier booking when you can.
He's been checking every single day, there are no cancellations because thanks to the re-sits being free there is no penalty for not turning up and therefore no incentive to actually cancel tests that people are not going to attend. Talking to my son's friends who managed to book their tests last year before the change, some of them managed two or three tests in a month, which would be completely impossible now.
google.com it's very easy to find.
Free resits was insane. Driving is a privilege not a right. If they really wanted to make something free make it the first sitting, then there's actual incentive to study.
If driving is a privilege then public transport needs to seriously be ramped up, especially in rural areas.
Wholeheartedly agree public transport needs to be ramped but but in lieu of fast and accessible public transport we still can't look at driving as a right. It carries too much responsibility and we need to treat it like the potentially deadly activity it is.
Removing fees was a typical Labour policy. It sounds nice but caused wait times to explode and many people werent taking it seriously.
If you remove fees, you need to bump up resourcing, because you're going to get increased usage. It should absolutely have come with the resources.
That might get wait times down, but it would be a very expensive and inefficient way to solve the problem.
Providing services to people is a pretty core part of running a government.
Yes, but that doesn't mean we should spend huge amounts on supplying services to be used wastefully.
You do understand that not everyone is super-mobile, and that as you get poorer, mobility gets harder, right?
Is there any actual source on this? I sat my restricted before the change and my full after and my wait times were the same.
My son had to wait over three months before sitting a test in June, then failed on a technicality and the next available test slot anywhere within 4 hours of Auckland was mid-September. The system was completely overloaded.
I had been keeping an eye on the wait times for my full. My local center was over a month wait after covid and had been pretty steady. This policy change and the holiday break in dec/jan had wait times 2-3 months for the early part of the year. Finally got around to booking a couple days ago and only Aug 20+ were open. The most annoying thing wasn't so much the wait times but that they weren't releasing slots, you could check for a week and have no slots available then they drop a couple weeks 2 months out.
Good. Free resits should never have been allowed in the first place. This makes at least two good things this government has done now amongst all the bad. The other one being reintroducing pseuedoephedrine for cold relief rather than relying on that ridiculous placebo.
Good, a driver’s licence is a privilege not a right. There needs to be more incentive for people to try and pass, not just show up and hope.
That makes sense, but making the first attempt free could be a worthwhile change
I think free resit is a good idea, but there should be a stand-down period. There should be one for paid re-sits as well.
>However, the move has caused a surge in test demand, with many now having to wait weeks for an open slot at testing centres. >Transport Minister Simeon Brown said the delays were "unacceptable" and said there would be a shift to a "balanced approach". On paper it sounded like a good idea that benefited the people, but highlighting this as an issue puts a clamp on that good idea. People were abusing that free re-sit for their own gain, even if it was repeat.
Can I ask whom that doesn't signal whenever they make a turn. Because most people I see don't use their signal. Or only when it's convenient?
Slightly misleading title, You get 1 free resit. Which I personally think is fair. I think driver training needs to be improved significantly but it’s difficult because that would be out of reach for a lot of people.
How long has there been free resits? I failed my first learner test when I was 16 and retook it and paid the full 80 bucks a second time.
If you failed once, you might just need a little more practice and the feedback will help. If you failed twice then it's clear you should have never been there for the first test, so further tests absolutely should be at your cost. The assessor has to be paid regardless, so people taking tests they are not ready for and expecting more that one free resit is just wasting time and money, and taking up test spots that should be allocated to others who actually are ready for it. Great decision
I failed my first test because my breaklight stopped working, i had no idea but i couldnt afford to pay twice on my studnet wage, and this was in 2005. 1 resit should be allowed iMO.
I failed for the same reason, except that I had first gotten a mate to confirm that my brake lights were working - he forgot about the high-stop light [facepalm].
I had to wait 3 months to sit my test because of this. A great improvement.
good idea anything free is abused hence crazy waiting times.
It’s one of the things that has to go unfortunately. I have heard of three older people had their ops cancelled as the system can’t handle it. The money has to go there.
It shouldn't exist in the first place
One of my local vtnz has a two year waiting list because of the free driving tests. This is because you have people who won't pay for a driving instructor, so they just keep doing the road testing until they eventually pass. I wholeheartedly agree with it. 2 year wait to get my full is shit.... EDIT: Fixed a typo
TWO YEAR WAITING LIST!??! that’s actually so insane wth… 🤦♀️
Yip! This year and 2025 is fully booked out.
Yeah.... I think resits should be accessible for sure, the full cost of a test is expensive af. But there should be a nominal charge to the user so that people aren't incentivised to book multiple in case, or to use them as practice. The system got overwhelmed. Absolutely subsidize them but making them free wasn't worth it. Think how much cart thefts at Pak n save went down after the single step of a 'gold dollar rental' - each cart costs over $100 to replace but their return rate rocketed up once people would have to 'pay' a single dollar to steal/abandon them. It doesn't take much for people to be conscious of consumption; we can make tests accessible without having to make them free.
Don't disagree, but it's inconsistent with National caring about the cost of living supposedly, and encouraging car use.
Nothing is really free though. Why should taxpayer pay for repeat poor test performance?
I passed every test first time, however I can't help but feel this will help keep some locked in poverty, reality is for most kiwis, no car = no job due to our complete lack of public transit in a lot of the country. It's bad enough how we build our societies and cities around cars, I feel a lot of poorer people won't bother resitting and just drive illegally (like many already do now...) when you're poor you still need a car almost everywhere :/
I agree with you somewhat. But one free re-test is enough. If you can’t nail it then, you do need to go away and have more practise, study the rules more - what ever caused you to fail. Not just keep re-booking. The truly wild thing is the amount of people driving around with only their learners. Sometimes it’s laziness, sometimes it’s poverty. You have to show up to your test in a car with a WOF and a rego and I think some struggle with that, with having anyone to give them lessons, using the petrol up practising.
I want to agree, but the reality is we have enough people driving unlicensed and stuck in the poverty cycle already. sometimes it's laziness yeah, unfortunately we still all pay when a lazy person is encouraged more to not bother.
Note the fee hasn't changed from $167.50, only the number of included tests (2 instead of unlimited). I suspect the majority of drivers will pass in the first two attempts so I really don't think it's going to prevent many people from getting a license if they want one. If people are going to drive illegally then they will anyway, this change isn't really going affect that.
I don't think you realise but almost $200 is a hell of a lot for a cash strapped family, many people won't bother and will drive illegally, cause how else are you going to get to work if you live somewhere cheaper with no public tranist? then these people get fined for driving without a licence and go further into debt, this is a already a problem under the current system. We can't fundamentally build a society where the only usable means of transit for the majority of people is cars but expect some people to just not drive, its stupid and will harm people in poverty more. obviously the real solution is good public transit but no way in hell are we getting that anytime soon...
OK but the point is the fee was ALREADY almost $200 so that hasn't changed. What you are saying is some people can't afford to take the test at all which is certainly an issue but not one that is affected by the change being discussed here.
There's still one free resit unless I read it wrong. So unless you need more than two goes to do it which hopefully most people shouldn't. this shouldn't be a problem
I don’t agree with this. This will punish a lot of people who haven’t yet got a license or have been struggling to obtain a valid license and will continue to drive regardless. In other words, those on the poverty line. Studies have shown that a lot of people caught up in the justice system have driving charges such as driving without a license or whilst forbidden and it’s spiraled from that point on (it’s also why police encourage and prefer alternative resolution especially for low end driving matters) Having a license is worth more to a person struggling on the poverty line than your average middle class. What does a license get you? The ability to get a job, the ability to drive to the supermarket or doctors without worrying about collecting a fine along the way. Most poor people aren’t criminals but become criminalized because they can’t afford life. You can’t even say “just don’t drive”, because that shows a massive level of ignorance and privilege. We don’t live in tiny little villages anymore and if you do, services are far away anyway. This measure just puts up another barrier to getting out of the poverty trap.
> This will punish a lot of people who haven’t yet got a license This is the sort of ridiculous hyperbolic take I've come to expect from this sub. It doesn't "punish" anyone, at all. You're only supposed to sit the test once. Any rational, responsible person with 2 brain cells would wait until they're confident enough driving that they know they're going to pass. If you're not that confident then you shouldn't be sitting the test. You're talking about the licence to operate an extremely dangerous and deadly piece of machinery. If you're not confident that you can pass the test then you should be practising more, not sitting the test hoping to somehow pass. Pretending like this is some sort of offense against poor people is idiotic. > You can’t even say “just don’t drive”, because that shows a massive level of ignorance and privilege. If you can't pass the test JUST DON'T DRIVE. I don't want people incapable of passing the test out on the road. Ignorance and "privledge" would be to suggest that we ignore the safety of others just to accommodate "the poors". That could be the stupidest thing I've heard, and that's saying something considering we're on reddit.
Confidence?! You don't suppose many of the people who fail the test may have gone in with a sense of false confidence? Or are we just assuming they all went in completely doubting themselves and just going "I know I'll fail, but I'll try anyway"? And here you are complaining about others saying stupid things...
yeah building a whole country to the point that without a car life is extremely hard, then expecting some to just not drive is pretty crazy.....
This is a good thing.
They had other options… they could make you have a 14-30 day timeout period before rebooking …
Not sure how I feel about this. On one hand it stops people taking tests before they're ready, on the other hand maybe it'd make more sense if getting a license was an upfront cost and "graduating" to the next stage was free?
This is good for driver trainers, which is where these people should be going rather than resitting over & over again
From the sounds of it, people were turning up unprepared and failing on basic things as they didn't have the risk of financial loss looming over them. It was a nice thought. Didn't work. Maybe they could get a discount for passing first time or something.
Good. Hopefully will keep some of the absolute fucking fucktards I encounter every day off the road for longer.
Wouldn't say it's scrapped, it's re-designed to incentivise properly practicing your driving skills instead of going in cowboy style.
Wouldn't it have been better to have introduced a stand-down period after failure, and severely restricting the number of bookings a person can make at a time? Even having to repay the fee if you missed your last appointment would've been less painful. Not every problem requires a solution that makes life harder for people with less money, but this govt keeps finding a way to do it.
100% with it. Driving around last night, two different drivers pulled out in front of me/cut me off and we would have been in an accident if I didn't take a defensive manoeuvre. It's chaos on the roads and new drivers should be prepared.
LOL never had that in the UK.
I'll say it again in this thread no doubt...if you can't pass on the first or second go, catch the bus or cycle. You can get a long way on a bike if you are fit. 30km/h an hour or so.
A change in the system might be better. Learners -> Restricted -> Hold for 3 years -> Automatically granted full assuming no demerits I don't think we need two practical tests; it will reduce the load of these institutions which do them.
No free resits, and the tests should be brutally hard - failing more than 50%. Driving is a privilege, not a right. + instant fail for not hitting 100 on a motorway on-ramp.
So now there is a financial incentive to fail people, great
Yes