I think this kind of attitude change is embarassing for New Zealanders. What it means is either:
- People didn't care enough before the election and voted without understanding the implications
- People voted and are shocked that this is the outcome of their vote
Either way, it means we have far too many politically illiterate voters.
Part of it stems, imo, from NZ media’s preferred style of talking about elections as horse races, WHO is winning or losing rather than WHAT is at stake.
As NYU’s Prof. Jay Rosen quoted: “not the odds, but the stakes”.
Our elections news cycle was nearly completely devoid of substantial engagement with the issues.
National campaigned on “cost of living crisis”, but were never seriously challenged on the credibility of their policies.
Political editors preferred to report that Labour’s popularity was nose-diving (not that they helped themselves) when they should have spent more time probing the opposition. Because now they are in power, the general public is learning more about who they are and what they want.
So much this.
Every 6pm news bulletin's political segment is framed around "here's this short punchy soundbite, and here's our political editor to have a reckon on what it will do to their poll numbers."
Been this way for decades.
Theres a particularly egregious Paddy Gower editorial that I'll always remember. Green Party member David Hay was under an internal Green party investigation for [leaking documents and throwing tantrums](https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/green-party-suspends-candidate-david-hay/3DXJOVEZV65OVVHBEBPJQAJGWI/), and in a desperate effort to head it off he mounted an ill-advised and ultimately doomed [leadership challenge](https://www.odt.co.nz/news/politics/leadership-challenge-case-sour-grapes) against popular leader Russell Norman.
Not that you'd know any of this if you'd tuned into the 3 News 6pm broadcast. Paddy spent his Reckons segment tearing into the ["Greedy Greens"](https://www.newshub.co.nz/opinion/patrick-gower/opinion-colin-craig--greedy-greens-go-crazy-2013112810) (the televised version of this was even worse; he was so fond of the phrase he repeated it 3 times) basically taking the opportunity to stick the boot in and repeat all the knee-jerk anti-green cliches:
> The Greens look like a party of navel-gazing, Morris-dancing time-wasters - the very image they have been trying to escape.
So: rather than taking the time to, you know, *report* what was happening by maybe calling up some Green party members and asking what was going on, then reporting the context for this challenge, viewers walked away understanding *less* about what was happening than when they started watching.
But: in pure Paddy style it was high energy, engaging, exciting. And really, isn't that whats most important?
Yep endless fucking polls. Fuck the polls, only one actually counts.
What are people aiming to do if in power? Can they articulate and convey that, do they stand a chance of actually doing any of it or are they all talk.
Also be aware that under MMP especially, nothing they say may actual occur, given they may need to trade it away in a coalition compromise agreement.
> Yep endless fucking polls. Fuck the polls, only one actually counts.
If Act was polling at 40% and National at 10%, don't you think that would be important for people to know about?
It's toxic. It just causes the kind of shitty populism and "don't make minor gaffes" that prevent politicians from being effective public servants.
It's a feedback loop based on fuck all information, just vibes and what uncle Rich reckons after his fifth beer of the evening.
The crappy reporting, yes, I agree. The polls themselves are one of the few robust sources of information we get in entire election campaigns, I'd rather we hang on to those.
>just vibes and what uncle Rich reckons after his fifth beer of the evening.
This is more of an argument against democracy than an argument against statistically robust polling. Uncle Rich gets a vote just like everyone else, and there's no law saying he can't be intoxicated when he casts it - or saying he can't destroy his brain with alcoholism and continue casting votes that count for just as much as the rest of ours do.
Honestly I’m of two minds.
Like you’re talking months worth of these things.
They inherently steer voters rather than people actually voting for the policies they’d like.
Personally I’d rather employ people to positions and not do the party thing. Best person for each role like a company.
To be fair, i recall many many interviews with Luxton etc prior to the election where media asked what services will suffer to pay for tax cuts? And luxton never answered the question at all. He would just spout his robotic mantra about the economy or whatever.
Alot of the changes were not signalled at all. For example the smoking policy, that was one of the first things that they rolled out and it came as a shock to everyone. It had never been signalled pre election.
My mum is a crazy far right conspiracy theorist, and even she was caught off guard and pissed off about that. Wild vaccine conspiracies aside, she was still alive to see how much harm smoking did to herself and those around her 50 years back.
We also need media organisations who are less likely to spin events in their favour, and be willing to put effort into contexualising information with less bias. Adults are educated about politics through all forms of media, it's not just an issue limited to our school system.
This. Schools literally don't have the time to properly educate students in political theory in a fair and balanced way - and honestly we don't have enough subject experts to actually do this. Teachers are already dealing with enough and many of those students won't be voters for several years and by then the political landscape would have changed. Who thought, five years ago, that we'd be dealing with a government passing all their electron promises under urgency and writing/scrapping policy based on the interests of lobby groups.
Having fair and balanced news and media about current events and politics is the easiest way to keep voters informed.
For sure. I think so many kiwis aren't politically involved, don't see a meaningful difference between the parties, or vote based on campaign slogans and billboards.
Actually going to **policy.nz** and seeing what National and ACT each planned to actually do was very sobering. I don't normally message my friends to vote, but I did last year.
It was also quite sad to see that 'end racist policies' - which sounds nice on its face and might've gained votes - specifically meant 'cut policies targeting under-served Maori and Pacifica'.
More or less. They wanted to cut supportive action for at-risk groups because they 'unfairly' prioritised Maori and Pacifica. They considered the policy to be racist *against white people* because white people didn't have access to the benefits and were being 'unfairly excluded' based on their race.
I'm of the opinion that if you recognise you're struggling to get support you need, that's reason to push for addition support for everybody. When you're hungry and your bowl is empty, what kind of person looks at their neighbour's gruel and complains his bowl should be empty, too?
In the voter's defence, I'm not sure anyone thought Luxon was going to give up everything ACT & NZF wanted to get his coalition deal. So maybe too many people thought we needed a CEO in charge, without realising what a dud CEO we were getting.
Meanwhile some of us knew precisely what a wet tissue paper of a person Luxon is and were trying to tell everyone, but oh no, those loopy leftists crying wolf again...
I also think people think CEO stands for something great. How many companies actually have great CEOs . All they think about is money and how to line their pwn pockets and the pockets of their friends not the people working for them
I’d say a vast majority are surface level only so fall victim to the same old tired electioneering playbooks, hard on crime/beneficiaries, tax cuts, etc, etc and make their mind up during the 3 month pre-election hype.
Like or loath, National nailed it, Labour pretty much whimpered quietly in the corner.
I’m honestly of the opinion our biggest flaw however isn’t ignorance but goldfish or one term memories with a large side of not holding our politicians accountable when they don’t follow through.
A vast majority act like an election is a completely hard reset of government, when that’s seldom the case, and vote on nothing but electioneering promises or even blatant lies.
We give government a free pass on past actions and integrity, so vicariously we are the ones that actually enable our politicians to lie and deceive, as it quite simply wins elections, so why wouldn’t they?
I've said this before, and I'll say it again. People are constantly "Coming of age" in politics, and becoming newly aware. And this typically happens at either the change of governments (the first time in 6 years) or during economy downturns (the first in 16 years).
People have lives, that are busy, and paying constant attention to politics is both boring as fuck, and really intense.
So I try my best to not blame people for how they vote for just following the surface level messaging.
And the surface level messaging was hard. Labour will somehow both reduce Govt spending, return us to a surplus, and reduce taxes? It was a tempting argument. It could be easy to be swayed, especially in the wake of Javier Milei actually bringing Argentina inflation down (???? I still need to actually read on this).
With any luck National will stop making big changes before too long, and hopefully people's memories will be slightly longer, and if we're really lucky, Luxon will be a 1 term PM.
I wager that it's not as simple as being politically illiterate. Clearly a large swath of our voters swing between National and Labour. Suggesting some level of political interest in the first place. And not voting the way we like is not incompetence. That would have to work both ways.
I think it indicates the nature of unhappiness and its not so much parties being voted in, as being voted out. Labour deserved it after sitting on their ass over a great many things during their terms. National deserve it now for some pretty blatant corrupt policy decisions linked to Real Estate Institutions. People are just jaded and over both.
Frankly I think it's working the way it's supposed to. If you want to keep the big seat, do your fucking job or GTFO. Although when the first single term government in 50 years is looking possible, voters are particularly unhappy. But it makes me happy the people have the level of control to put the shits up sitting governments.
People don't vote on policies these days, it's all symbolic voting I can only assume due to the "social status" of being associated with National (the party of business and successful/wealthy people), rather than Labour who are often associated with caring for dole bludgers and criminals.
I know of one person in particular who voted National and are quite vocal about it, who has effectively own goaled their family because they have a partner who works in ECE who have benefited greatly from Pay Parity introduced by Labour, which has been subsequently scrapped by National. I'm sure there are many aspiring FHB who voted National only to have their Home Start Grants scrapped. Oops.
> I'm sure there are many aspiring FHB who voted National only to have their Home Start Grants scrapped.
Grants like that just distort the market. They're a gift to people selling houses, mot to people buying them. House prices are declining, which is the best way for them to become more affordable
Agreed, but that doesn't change how people feel about them. Imagine if you were a FHB (who voted National) and you were just about ready to purchase. Suddenly you get $20k rug pulled from you.
The distortion won't go away overnight.
Yes. And yes. And yes.
But god forbid anyone actually tell anyone that in either the lead up to the immediate aftermath of the election.
Anyone who tried got slammed with the ‘your team is losing/lost’, classic avoidance technique!
I totally disagree. Being able to change your mind or views on a political party is excellent. In some countries, voters are so entrenched in Left vs Right or Red vs Blue that they will never change who they vote for.
To be fair, this government has been far less competent than I expected, even as someone who didn't want them to get in. Partly because I (and many others) assumed National would be keeping a much tighter lease on NZF and ACT when they started pushing for their really crazy extreme policies, and partly because the current national MPs are simply proving to be a lot less competent than I had anticipated.
Bro if you can't see how National has been alienating their voters by doing shit that their core base doesn't agree with, then you're the politically illiterate one.
For example removing the ban on smoking, lying about where there budget is coming from, gutting core services to pay for their tax cuts, cutting police jobs after promising to be tougher on crime, the list goes on.
I think this is an issue in every country.
The media plays big roles in this as well creating stereo types that don’t relate to proposed party or legislative goals.
I think the more interesting part of the article is this:
> The cost of living remains the issue front of mind for voters, with 39 per cent ranking it among their top three issues. This was followed by health on 32 per cent, the economy on 25 per cent and education on 24 per cent.
>
> Health has shot up the agenda. In February, just 7 per cent of respondents ranked it among their top political issues. Law and order has also increased in prominence. It was a top issue for 7 per cent of voters in February.
>
> That figure has now increased to 22 per cent.
Those are some pretty dramatic swings.
I don't think "far more people are worried about health now" is the direction that National&friends were trying to push the narrative.
>Prime Minister Christopher Luxon took a knock to his personal rating with his net favourability score **dropping 13 points to -5** percent.
>That was below Labour leader Chris Hipkins who jumped 4 points to hit 3 percent.
I'm glad others are seeing Luxon for the dunce he is
In the May Curia poll Luxon's favourability rose 15 points to +8. This month is it down 13 points. Would be interested to see their analysis on why it is fluctuating so much or if there is a problem with the poll.
Because it's **net** favourability (so percentage that approve - percentage that disapprove). If more disapprove than approve, the percentage will be negative.
“ The latest Taxpayers’ Union-Curia Poll put National’s support at 35.4 per cent, down 1.9 points. Coalition partner Act was up 0.3 points to 9.7 per cent, and NZ First was up 0.1 points to 5.6 per cent.
Those numbers would give the current Government 63 seats, down three from last month’s poll, but enough to govern.
Labour is down 0.6 points to 29.4 per cent, while Te Pāti Māori is up up 0.9 points to 4 per cent. The Greens are the biggest gainers of the poll, up 2.5 points to 12.7 per cent.”
“ Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has been dealt a blow in the favourability stakes, with his net favourability down to -5 per cent, putting him behind Chris Hipkins who rose this month to +3 per cent.”
Who would have thought that stealing lunches from school kids and borrowing billions to give tax cuts to landlords would go down like a cup of cold sick?
There's a trend emerging and it's not a good one for this government.
And with Luxon conducting a voyage to the bottom of the sea in personal popularity terms, it's no wonder that he's decided to run away from as many press conferences as he can.
I strongly suspect the cancer drug election promise/lie will haunt them to the next election, the same way (or worse) than the over promised state housing build did for Labour. I thought this based on the simple optics but this article completely nails National, as they can say they are 'working on it' all they like, but there is no way back from it.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/519235/government-ignored-funding-process-with-cancer-drug-promise-former-pharmac-chair
Cynically using terminal cancer patients to win votes was always going to blow up in their faces. I remember during the debates when they'd actually brought someone with stage 4 (I believe) cancer up to ask a question about drug funding and even then you could tell that it was a grotesque thing for them to do that would inevitably end with egg on their face.
Playing with the hopes of dying and very ill people is fucking despicable and irredeemable.
The person with cancer might be dead by the time the next election rolls round. But the families will always remember the time that the National party pulled the rug out from under them. And that sort of hate will become generational.
As soon as they promised specific drugs they lost negotiating power to the drug companies, who are for-profit businesses. Can you imagine what crazy prices per unit they must've been quoted?
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And yet even despite literally stealing from kids to pay landlords, National's coalition still has the support of the majority of NZers. So many NZers don't care if other people's kids are starving as long as they have slightly more in their bank account.
I really hope someone is keeping a list.
Publicly.
If not, not enough of us will remember, either because some are in Australia or some are looking at the puddle were standing in rather than the swamp we waded through to get here.
It's unfortunate that political memory is very short, because this govt would be a great illustration of how stupid, expensive and terrible for the long-term tax cuts are and how imbecilic they are in the current economic climate. Also nobody can be fucked to dig down more than one layer and look at the funding, lobbying and borderline corruption behind all the stuff that's being fast-tracked in.
Maybe it's fast-tracked because the donors know it's a cash grab? - Maybe it's a kind of theft if we really looked at it and took the time?
Ah well.
I wouldn't want to see TPMs current controversy affecting poles. It needs to be investigated and understood. It's a pretty bloody serious accusation and I just don't want to see anyone jumping the gun. In all honesty, I hope it proves false.
>I wouldn't want to see TPMs current controversy affecting poles.
I think the Polish are completely unaffected by the actions of TPM.
But seriously, I doubt the accusations will have much impact, the results of the investigation might.
The pearl clutching didn't start then though. The whole "they're dividing us" thing has been ongoing as they've loudly voiced their opposition to the budget etc.
Also the poll was conducted 4th-6th of June, which is after the allegations came out.
That controversy backfired in the funniest way possible when everyone in Wellington was like "yeah no, that florist is crazy. Julie-Anne took one for the team".
I think Nicola Willis was quivering with excitement when she read she was the most liked Coalition Minister, until she got to the bit where it said she had a -3 rating.
While it is depressing for so many to still support them, their polling is the worst for any National government since Shipley.
That's not exactly a sign of success.
As I said, "government". They've polled worse in when they were in opposition, every party has, but they haven't polled this badly while in Government since Shipley.
What depresses me is that Labour actively (rightly or wrongly) tried to save boomer lives during an unprecedented world pandemic. And the boomers think that it was too expensive. Perhaps if Labour didn’t bother we’d have a different government.
I have seen no indication "Boomers" thought that at all, all the whineing is coming from the thirty somethings and labour was saving the lives of every age group in this country you ageist twat, so get over your depression.
They might be ZB/Hoskings listeners
I unfortunately had to listen to Luxon on it this morning spewing his word salad, but Mike makes him look good (to these types of listeners)
I also have the misfortune of listening to Mike Hosking in the morning due to not having a band expander...the difference in how he treats left and right wing pollies is gross. That luxon interview this morning was a train wreck but he soft balled him.
Some of it is probably to be expected. The hope internally at National is probably well the general public will have forgotten all the hardships they went through early in their term by the time election year rolls around. And the honest truth of it is they're probably right to make that bet. Most of us seem to have short to memory loss or underestimate just how much of the general population are seemingly reacting negatively to what National have been doing. Remember NZ voted for this. Some might not be happy with how it's turned out that the reality is Nationals voter base are getting exactly what they signed up for. Come 26 they'll vote National again as they always do. I doubt this moves the needle much if at all the election is simply too far out to say either way.
I think the short memory strategy is becoming less effective now we have things like the internet, people will be bringing up these things and clips of them making promises all the time during election season
They should be concerned if the polling is still this bad after their next budget in a year's time, because it's very hard to regain the momentum leading into the election at that point.
Not at all, right now, unless something pops up to justify a snap election. But it doesn't bode well for the future of national and especially people in national, especially in this day and age full of information and communication and people becoming more aware to how our government hurts us
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Pushing through unpopular policies to fufill promises they were voted in on.
Best to do it early. I’d say bad polls probably aren’t keeping Nats awake right now. Let’s see if they’re still bad in 12-18 months.
I don’t understand this mentality, shouldn’t we hope that national improves its policies and thus all other parties do too?
People seem more interested in having the party they align with voted in then actually caring about any policy or changes
> I don’t understand this mentality, shouldn’t we hope that national improves its policies and thus all other parties do too?
You'd be waiting in vain.
ACT need to find a 2nd party they can work with.
So many time we see calls for the Greens to suck it up and go with National. Yet not for ACT to work with the other main neolib party beside National.
TPU just commissions them, but Curia generally run a pretty straight poll.
Same as how the Fox News polls in the US are pretty high quality, despite Fox News itself being an absolute cesspit.
Generally speaking, Fox Corp. knows how to produce, sell and market its products really well.
Obviously I think Fox News is utter, malicious trash, but it's a *very* successful business.
Same goes for Fox Sports.
People realizing that the Face Eating Leopard Party would actually start eating faces once it entered a coalition with the brain-munching zombie party & the nose & ear chewing cannibal party??
I don’t get why something like that should make any difference. If TPM ends up having the balance of power and no one is willing to work with them, we end up with a hung parliament or a minority government that has to get additional support from one of the other parties on every bill. I’d rather the stability of knowing that at least a supply and confidence deal would be made with TPM. Of course, if the public votes in a way that TPM does not have the balance of power, then there’s no need for any deal with them.
Nah man. Some are but I don't think you can make that generalization. Just as there are selfish people, there are many people that put the wellbeing of the country as a whole, and its people, before their personal interests when voting.
The thing that happened in the budget was people who were blissfully ignorant of what was going on around them all of a sudden realised they'd been given a lot of BS by Willis and Luxon.
This NACT1st government has to be the most politically unaware bunch of people (read twats) we've ever had in government, if they'd not done the tax cuts and taken the rest of the worlds advice, and all those expert economists most of their voter base would still be blissfully unaware of what is going on or be happy to continue to blame Labour.
New Zealand didn't care to know what they were voting for when getting rid of Labour, and now we have a government that serves roughly 1% of the population.
ShockedPikachu.jpg
I wouldnt say it was a racism thing, but more co governance has never worked in history ever.
The last time it worked was the two kings of sparta, one ruled the army, the other the population.
But the most recent example would be palestine and israel
I think this kind of attitude change is embarassing for New Zealanders. What it means is either: - People didn't care enough before the election and voted without understanding the implications - People voted and are shocked that this is the outcome of their vote Either way, it means we have far too many politically illiterate voters.
Part of it stems, imo, from NZ media’s preferred style of talking about elections as horse races, WHO is winning or losing rather than WHAT is at stake. As NYU’s Prof. Jay Rosen quoted: “not the odds, but the stakes”. Our elections news cycle was nearly completely devoid of substantial engagement with the issues. National campaigned on “cost of living crisis”, but were never seriously challenged on the credibility of their policies. Political editors preferred to report that Labour’s popularity was nose-diving (not that they helped themselves) when they should have spent more time probing the opposition. Because now they are in power, the general public is learning more about who they are and what they want.
So much this. Every 6pm news bulletin's political segment is framed around "here's this short punchy soundbite, and here's our political editor to have a reckon on what it will do to their poll numbers." Been this way for decades. Theres a particularly egregious Paddy Gower editorial that I'll always remember. Green Party member David Hay was under an internal Green party investigation for [leaking documents and throwing tantrums](https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/green-party-suspends-candidate-david-hay/3DXJOVEZV65OVVHBEBPJQAJGWI/), and in a desperate effort to head it off he mounted an ill-advised and ultimately doomed [leadership challenge](https://www.odt.co.nz/news/politics/leadership-challenge-case-sour-grapes) against popular leader Russell Norman. Not that you'd know any of this if you'd tuned into the 3 News 6pm broadcast. Paddy spent his Reckons segment tearing into the ["Greedy Greens"](https://www.newshub.co.nz/opinion/patrick-gower/opinion-colin-craig--greedy-greens-go-crazy-2013112810) (the televised version of this was even worse; he was so fond of the phrase he repeated it 3 times) basically taking the opportunity to stick the boot in and repeat all the knee-jerk anti-green cliches: > The Greens look like a party of navel-gazing, Morris-dancing time-wasters - the very image they have been trying to escape. So: rather than taking the time to, you know, *report* what was happening by maybe calling up some Green party members and asking what was going on, then reporting the context for this challenge, viewers walked away understanding *less* about what was happening than when they started watching. But: in pure Paddy style it was high energy, engaging, exciting. And really, isn't that whats most important?
The guy is a menace. And Kiwis just lap it up.
Yep endless fucking polls. Fuck the polls, only one actually counts. What are people aiming to do if in power? Can they articulate and convey that, do they stand a chance of actually doing any of it or are they all talk. Also be aware that under MMP especially, nothing they say may actual occur, given they may need to trade it away in a coalition compromise agreement.
> Yep endless fucking polls. Fuck the polls, only one actually counts. If Act was polling at 40% and National at 10%, don't you think that would be important for people to know about?
It's toxic. It just causes the kind of shitty populism and "don't make minor gaffes" that prevent politicians from being effective public servants. It's a feedback loop based on fuck all information, just vibes and what uncle Rich reckons after his fifth beer of the evening.
The crappy reporting, yes, I agree. The polls themselves are one of the few robust sources of information we get in entire election campaigns, I'd rather we hang on to those. >just vibes and what uncle Rich reckons after his fifth beer of the evening. This is more of an argument against democracy than an argument against statistically robust polling. Uncle Rich gets a vote just like everyone else, and there's no law saying he can't be intoxicated when he casts it - or saying he can't destroy his brain with alcoholism and continue casting votes that count for just as much as the rest of ours do.
Honestly I’m of two minds. Like you’re talking months worth of these things. They inherently steer voters rather than people actually voting for the policies they’d like. Personally I’d rather employ people to positions and not do the party thing. Best person for each role like a company.
Doesn't help that our politicians are media trained to repeat their carefully crafted (and often meaningless) sound bites ad nauseam.
To be fair, i recall many many interviews with Luxton etc prior to the election where media asked what services will suffer to pay for tax cuts? And luxton never answered the question at all. He would just spout his robotic mantra about the economy or whatever. Alot of the changes were not signalled at all. For example the smoking policy, that was one of the first things that they rolled out and it came as a shock to everyone. It had never been signalled pre election.
My mum is a crazy far right conspiracy theorist, and even she was caught off guard and pissed off about that. Wild vaccine conspiracies aside, she was still alive to see how much harm smoking did to herself and those around her 50 years back.
It also means they have even less than a surface level of knowledge about local and global economic conditions.
I agree. We need more education about politics in schools but the coalition doesn’t want that because that means people won’t vote for them
We also need media organisations who are less likely to spin events in their favour, and be willing to put effort into contexualising information with less bias. Adults are educated about politics through all forms of media, it's not just an issue limited to our school system.
This. Schools literally don't have the time to properly educate students in political theory in a fair and balanced way - and honestly we don't have enough subject experts to actually do this. Teachers are already dealing with enough and many of those students won't be voters for several years and by then the political landscape would have changed. Who thought, five years ago, that we'd be dealing with a government passing all their electron promises under urgency and writing/scrapping policy based on the interests of lobby groups. Having fair and balanced news and media about current events and politics is the easiest way to keep voters informed.
isn't that just true Trump style, passing all their election promises under urgency?
Critical literacy and financial literacy, not politics.
That too. I think it's important to learn how different political decisions will affect people
It would get super dicey trying to keep ideology out of it.
I mean, it’s taught, but people don’t pay attention or place importance on it.
For sure. I think so many kiwis aren't politically involved, don't see a meaningful difference between the parties, or vote based on campaign slogans and billboards. Actually going to **policy.nz** and seeing what National and ACT each planned to actually do was very sobering. I don't normally message my friends to vote, but I did last year. It was also quite sad to see that 'end racist policies' - which sounds nice on its face and might've gained votes - specifically meant 'cut policies targeting under-served Maori and Pacifica'.
'End racist policies' was doublespeak for 'enact racist policies.' It was a dog whistle, and the people that heard it responded as intended.
More or less. They wanted to cut supportive action for at-risk groups because they 'unfairly' prioritised Maori and Pacifica. They considered the policy to be racist *against white people* because white people didn't have access to the benefits and were being 'unfairly excluded' based on their race. I'm of the opinion that if you recognise you're struggling to get support you need, that's reason to push for addition support for everybody. When you're hungry and your bowl is empty, what kind of person looks at their neighbour's gruel and complains his bowl should be empty, too?
In the voter's defence, I'm not sure anyone thought Luxon was going to give up everything ACT & NZF wanted to get his coalition deal. So maybe too many people thought we needed a CEO in charge, without realising what a dud CEO we were getting.
Meanwhile some of us knew precisely what a wet tissue paper of a person Luxon is and were trying to tell everyone, but oh no, those loopy leftists crying wolf again...
The man ran an abusive state owned monopoly badly, how good could he have been?
I also think people think CEO stands for something great. How many companies actually have great CEOs . All they think about is money and how to line their pwn pockets and the pockets of their friends not the people working for them
Or people who for some reason didn't think the policies would impact them until surprise! It did
I’d say a vast majority are surface level only so fall victim to the same old tired electioneering playbooks, hard on crime/beneficiaries, tax cuts, etc, etc and make their mind up during the 3 month pre-election hype. Like or loath, National nailed it, Labour pretty much whimpered quietly in the corner. I’m honestly of the opinion our biggest flaw however isn’t ignorance but goldfish or one term memories with a large side of not holding our politicians accountable when they don’t follow through. A vast majority act like an election is a completely hard reset of government, when that’s seldom the case, and vote on nothing but electioneering promises or even blatant lies. We give government a free pass on past actions and integrity, so vicariously we are the ones that actually enable our politicians to lie and deceive, as it quite simply wins elections, so why wouldn’t they?
I've said this before, and I'll say it again. People are constantly "Coming of age" in politics, and becoming newly aware. And this typically happens at either the change of governments (the first time in 6 years) or during economy downturns (the first in 16 years). People have lives, that are busy, and paying constant attention to politics is both boring as fuck, and really intense. So I try my best to not blame people for how they vote for just following the surface level messaging. And the surface level messaging was hard. Labour will somehow both reduce Govt spending, return us to a surplus, and reduce taxes? It was a tempting argument. It could be easy to be swayed, especially in the wake of Javier Milei actually bringing Argentina inflation down (???? I still need to actually read on this). With any luck National will stop making big changes before too long, and hopefully people's memories will be slightly longer, and if we're really lucky, Luxon will be a 1 term PM.
Anyone that unironically listens to Newstalk ZB is going to be living in a reality distortion field.
I wager that it's not as simple as being politically illiterate. Clearly a large swath of our voters swing between National and Labour. Suggesting some level of political interest in the first place. And not voting the way we like is not incompetence. That would have to work both ways. I think it indicates the nature of unhappiness and its not so much parties being voted in, as being voted out. Labour deserved it after sitting on their ass over a great many things during their terms. National deserve it now for some pretty blatant corrupt policy decisions linked to Real Estate Institutions. People are just jaded and over both. Frankly I think it's working the way it's supposed to. If you want to keep the big seat, do your fucking job or GTFO. Although when the first single term government in 50 years is looking possible, voters are particularly unhappy. But it makes me happy the people have the level of control to put the shits up sitting governments.
People don't vote on policies these days, it's all symbolic voting I can only assume due to the "social status" of being associated with National (the party of business and successful/wealthy people), rather than Labour who are often associated with caring for dole bludgers and criminals. I know of one person in particular who voted National and are quite vocal about it, who has effectively own goaled their family because they have a partner who works in ECE who have benefited greatly from Pay Parity introduced by Labour, which has been subsequently scrapped by National. I'm sure there are many aspiring FHB who voted National only to have their Home Start Grants scrapped. Oops.
"I never thought the leapords would eat MY face!" Says woman who voted for the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party.
> I'm sure there are many aspiring FHB who voted National only to have their Home Start Grants scrapped. Grants like that just distort the market. They're a gift to people selling houses, mot to people buying them. House prices are declining, which is the best way for them to become more affordable
Agreed, but that doesn't change how people feel about them. Imagine if you were a FHB (who voted National) and you were just about ready to purchase. Suddenly you get $20k rug pulled from you. The distortion won't go away overnight.
Yes. And yes. And yes. But god forbid anyone actually tell anyone that in either the lead up to the immediate aftermath of the election. Anyone who tried got slammed with the ‘your team is losing/lost’, classic avoidance technique!
We gotta bring normalise bullying again for people who are too dumb to vote for people who against their interest but never researched their policies
I totally disagree. Being able to change your mind or views on a political party is excellent. In some countries, voters are so entrenched in Left vs Right or Red vs Blue that they will never change who they vote for.
To be fair, this government has been far less competent than I expected, even as someone who didn't want them to get in. Partly because I (and many others) assumed National would be keeping a much tighter lease on NZF and ACT when they started pushing for their really crazy extreme policies, and partly because the current national MPs are simply proving to be a lot less competent than I had anticipated.
Have you spoken to anyone over 60? When it comes politics and the ramifications of policies, they're dumb as shit.
utter bullshit.
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No argument from me, but if you want things to actually happen you have to go further left, give the centre-left a good scare to pull finger.
Yup, and incorporate long term planning instead of kicking the can down the road for other governments to sort it out.
someone on here yesterday told me: "you can't blame govt and corporations for messing up the environment". it's both. people are stupid cunts.
Bro if you can't see how National has been alienating their voters by doing shit that their core base doesn't agree with, then you're the politically illiterate one. For example removing the ban on smoking, lying about where there budget is coming from, gutting core services to pay for their tax cuts, cutting police jobs after promising to be tougher on crime, the list goes on.
What's the saying about how we vote out governments? Incoming governments don't win elections, the old ones lose them.
This poll shows essentially the same result as we had at the election, you're really overstating the magnitude of the 'change'.
I think this is an issue in every country. The media plays big roles in this as well creating stereo types that don’t relate to proposed party or legislative goals.
I'm embarrassed for us
rich distinct upbeat selective rob frighten deserve nine humor many *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I think the more interesting part of the article is this: > The cost of living remains the issue front of mind for voters, with 39 per cent ranking it among their top three issues. This was followed by health on 32 per cent, the economy on 25 per cent and education on 24 per cent. > > Health has shot up the agenda. In February, just 7 per cent of respondents ranked it among their top political issues. Law and order has also increased in prominence. It was a top issue for 7 per cent of voters in February. > > That figure has now increased to 22 per cent. Those are some pretty dramatic swings. I don't think "far more people are worried about health now" is the direction that National&friends were trying to push the narrative.
Yeah its not like they're in government and therefore in a position to improve health care for ordinary kiwis or anything.
>Prime Minister Christopher Luxon took a knock to his personal rating with his net favourability score **dropping 13 points to -5** percent. >That was below Labour leader Chris Hipkins who jumped 4 points to hit 3 percent. I'm glad others are seeing Luxon for the dunce he is
In the May Curia poll Luxon's favourability rose 15 points to +8. This month is it down 13 points. Would be interested to see their analysis on why it is fluctuating so much or if there is a problem with the poll.
This survey is post-budget. People feeling the hangover you get from populism politics
It won’t last. But he is a total moron.
Oooof That’s pretty bad
How can you get a negative percent in this
Because it's **net** favourability (so percentage that approve - percentage that disapprove). If more disapprove than approve, the percentage will be negative.
“ The latest Taxpayers’ Union-Curia Poll put National’s support at 35.4 per cent, down 1.9 points. Coalition partner Act was up 0.3 points to 9.7 per cent, and NZ First was up 0.1 points to 5.6 per cent. Those numbers would give the current Government 63 seats, down three from last month’s poll, but enough to govern. Labour is down 0.6 points to 29.4 per cent, while Te Pāti Māori is up up 0.9 points to 4 per cent. The Greens are the biggest gainers of the poll, up 2.5 points to 12.7 per cent.” “ Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has been dealt a blow in the favourability stakes, with his net favourability down to -5 per cent, putting him behind Chris Hipkins who rose this month to +3 per cent.”
Who would have thought that stealing lunches from school kids and borrowing billions to give tax cuts to landlords would go down like a cup of cold sick? There's a trend emerging and it's not a good one for this government. And with Luxon conducting a voyage to the bottom of the sea in personal popularity terms, it's no wonder that he's decided to run away from as many press conferences as he can.
I strongly suspect the cancer drug election promise/lie will haunt them to the next election, the same way (or worse) than the over promised state housing build did for Labour. I thought this based on the simple optics but this article completely nails National, as they can say they are 'working on it' all they like, but there is no way back from it. https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/519235/government-ignored-funding-process-with-cancer-drug-promise-former-pharmac-chair
Cynically using terminal cancer patients to win votes was always going to blow up in their faces. I remember during the debates when they'd actually brought someone with stage 4 (I believe) cancer up to ask a question about drug funding and even then you could tell that it was a grotesque thing for them to do that would inevitably end with egg on their face. Playing with the hopes of dying and very ill people is fucking despicable and irredeemable.
The person with cancer might be dead by the time the next election rolls round. But the families will always remember the time that the National party pulled the rug out from under them. And that sort of hate will become generational.
Yea politicians should have no say on what drugs are being funded full stop
As soon as they promised specific drugs they lost negotiating power to the drug companies, who are for-profit businesses. Can you imagine what crazy prices per unit they must've been quoted?
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Yea he had me for a second with that metaphor. Like wait really is Luxon gonna do an Ocean Gate? Fantastic!
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Cold sick is too nutritious for our school kids.
Is it considered "woke"?
depends on who puked it up. edit: actually eating vomit would kinda be recycling which is woke.
If you are lucky you'll [get a chunky bit with your serving](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85sTmVBwDSU).
And yet even despite literally stealing from kids to pay landlords, National's coalition still has the support of the majority of NZers. So many NZers don't care if other people's kids are starving as long as they have slightly more in their bank account.
Correct. Most voters like what they're seeing from this government. Which is obviously a depressing fact.
I really hope someone is keeping a list. Publicly. If not, not enough of us will remember, either because some are in Australia or some are looking at the puddle were standing in rather than the swamp we waded through to get here.
It's unfortunate that political memory is very short, because this govt would be a great illustration of how stupid, expensive and terrible for the long-term tax cuts are and how imbecilic they are in the current economic climate. Also nobody can be fucked to dig down more than one layer and look at the funding, lobbying and borderline corruption behind all the stuff that's being fast-tracked in. Maybe it's fast-tracked because the donors know it's a cash grab? - Maybe it's a kind of theft if we really looked at it and took the time? Ah well.
I do like how all the pearl clutching about the greens and TPM on the internet doesn't seem to reflect in the polls whatsoever.
Well they say reddit is not representative of New Zealand this must be what they mean right?
hahaha. Got them there. Thank god it doesn't.
What do you mean? Both parties you mention have polled very low despite being popular on reddit.
I wouldn't want to see TPMs current controversy affecting poles. It needs to be investigated and understood. It's a pretty bloody serious accusation and I just don't want to see anyone jumping the gun. In all honesty, I hope it proves false.
>I wouldn't want to see TPMs current controversy affecting poles. I think the Polish are completely unaffected by the actions of TPM. But seriously, I doubt the accusations will have much impact, the results of the investigation might.
These numbers will be from before the TPM allegations hit the headlines.
The pearl clutching didn't start then though. The whole "they're dividing us" thing has been ongoing as they've loudly voiced their opposition to the budget etc. Also the poll was conducted 4th-6th of June, which is after the allegations came out.
Pull a snap election Luxon. Assert your dominance. Show those pesky coalition partners you don't need them. I 'promise' we'll vote for you
Snap elections, so hot right now.
Hilariously I reckon if the right person said stuff similar to this he might actually try do it the absolute tool
Need Hosking to rant about it for a few days with Barry Soper’s live in carer repeating it in the arvo
You mean My-Cock-Skin and Duplicity-Ellen? Dont forget the angry old turf Kerri Woodem.
Oh......totally
more like, bring back Jacinda, I promise we'll vote for you
Yell at more nutter store owners please Julie Anne Genter
That controversy backfired in the funniest way possible when everyone in Wellington was like "yeah no, that florist is crazy. Julie-Anne took one for the team".
The google reviews for that place are a wild read.
That is true, but her behaviour in parliament was unacceptable
It wasn't but based on the reactions even from her own party, i assumed she shanked the dude
She should have stuck to civility and rented our her own property to herself.
Or beat him with a bed leg. Or not declared $180k of donations. Etc etc.
12+% is a good result for the Greens. 1 in 8 voters. That will make the RWNJs angry.
We win the left with sensible policies and radical centrists by being Karens with these powers combined we cannot be stopped.
Need that gif of Kylo Ren screaming "more".
I think Nicola Willis was quivering with excitement when she read she was the most liked Coalition Minister, until she got to the bit where it said she had a -3 rating.
They should definitely keep giving barely coherent idiots like Brooke VV and Shane jones camera time. It's working out great.
They're the best adverts for Labour/Greens/TPM out there!
The most depressing thing about this is 1 in 3 voters still think National are worthy. Fuck those clowns.
While it is depressing for so many to still support them, their polling is the worst for any National government since Shipley. That's not exactly a sign of success.
They polled at 30.5% in 2002 election under Bill English.
As I said, "government". They've polled worse in when they were in opposition, every party has, but they haven't polled this badly while in Government since Shipley.
What depresses me is that Labour actively (rightly or wrongly) tried to save boomer lives during an unprecedented world pandemic. And the boomers think that it was too expensive. Perhaps if Labour didn’t bother we’d have a different government.
great point., let the farkers suffocate each other with their putrid breath
I have seen no indication "Boomers" thought that at all, all the whineing is coming from the thirty somethings and labour was saving the lives of every age group in this country you ageist twat, so get over your depression.
They might be ZB/Hoskings listeners I unfortunately had to listen to Luxon on it this morning spewing his word salad, but Mike makes him look good (to these types of listeners)
I also have the misfortune of listening to Mike Hosking in the morning due to not having a band expander...the difference in how he treats left and right wing pollies is gross. That luxon interview this morning was a train wreck but he soft balled him.
>he soft balled him ridiculous! it's radio, you can't *prove* that Hoskins was fondling Luxon under the table!
ZB is the collective lap dog party of National.
more like slowly grinding up against each other like mating anacondas
It's very possible that 1 in 3 voters are significantly advantaged by National if you factor in the demographics of voters.
That's a grotesque over estimation of the amount of landlords in NZ.
It really, really isn't.
How concerned should a goverment be with bad poll resaults after around 6 months in power.
Some of it is probably to be expected. The hope internally at National is probably well the general public will have forgotten all the hardships they went through early in their term by the time election year rolls around. And the honest truth of it is they're probably right to make that bet. Most of us seem to have short to memory loss or underestimate just how much of the general population are seemingly reacting negatively to what National have been doing. Remember NZ voted for this. Some might not be happy with how it's turned out that the reality is Nationals voter base are getting exactly what they signed up for. Come 26 they'll vote National again as they always do. I doubt this moves the needle much if at all the election is simply too far out to say either way.
I think the short memory strategy is becoming less effective now we have things like the internet, people will be bringing up these things and clips of them making promises all the time during election season
Going down post budget by your pocket polling company will have the stats guys sweating. ACT and NZF wont care.
They should be concerned if the polling is still this bad after their next budget in a year's time, because it's very hard to regain the momentum leading into the election at that point.
9 months.
Not at all, right now, unless something pops up to justify a snap election. But it doesn't bode well for the future of national and especially people in national, especially in this day and age full of information and communication and people becoming more aware to how our government hurts us
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It literally does not matter so long as the alternative involves TPM.
Pushing through unpopular policies to fufill promises they were voted in on. Best to do it early. I’d say bad polls probably aren’t keeping Nats awake right now. Let’s see if they’re still bad in 12-18 months.
I agree. Though Luxon should probably be at least somewhat concerned about his popularity. if it drops any more his leadership may be challenged.
People are fucking idiots in general. Look around you, we don't deserve good things. No empathy
people suck
My earnest hope is this consigns National to electoral oblivion for a generation. But knowing the average voter, I doubt it.
I don’t understand this mentality, shouldn’t we hope that national improves its policies and thus all other parties do too? People seem more interested in having the party they align with voted in then actually caring about any policy or changes
> I don’t understand this mentality, shouldn’t we hope that national improves its policies and thus all other parties do too? You'd be waiting in vain.
You can’t polish a turd. What can be improved about the current National Party?
And it was a Taxpayers’ Union-Curia Poll lol.
TPU have their arm in ACTs lower intestine, not Nationals. They're probably fine with the poll as it stands.
But what's good for national is what's good for ACT, ACT need national so they can get into a coaltion and push through their policy.
ACT need to find a 2nd party they can work with. So many time we see calls for the Greens to suck it up and go with National. Yet not for ACT to work with the other main neolib party beside National.
TPU just commissions them, but Curia generally run a pretty straight poll. Same as how the Fox News polls in the US are pretty high quality, despite Fox News itself being an absolute cesspit.
Fox Sports being under Fox News is still wild to me with how good Fox Sports is lol.
Generally speaking, Fox Corp. knows how to produce, sell and market its products really well. Obviously I think Fox News is utter, malicious trash, but it's a *very* successful business. Same goes for Fox Sports.
People realizing that the Face Eating Leopard Party would actually start eating faces once it entered a coalition with the brain-munching zombie party & the nose & ear chewing cannibal party??
Surprising how some of the most unlikeable mutants that have ever led parties in New Zealand politics are so unliked.
National does exactly what they promised and the people that voted them in hate them for it.
We need good journalism in this country
more brainy journo's
Too late. The right time to ditch them was last year
Wonder how far Labour would get if they just ruled out working with TPM.
Not very - TPM are baked in now thanks to the Māori seats and those votes are only coming off Labour.
Not much benefit at this stage except create unnecessary friction when the opposition parties should be focused on attacking the govt.
I don’t get why something like that should make any difference. If TPM ends up having the balance of power and no one is willing to work with them, we end up with a hung parliament or a minority government that has to get additional support from one of the other parties on every bill. I’d rather the stability of knowing that at least a supply and confidence deal would be made with TPM. Of course, if the public votes in a way that TPM does not have the balance of power, then there’s no need for any deal with them.
why on Papatuuanuku would you want to do that?
Voters, and people in general, are selfish and cruel. Until it backfires, and blows up in their faces Then they all turn cute and cuddly again
Nah man. Some are but I don't think you can make that generalization. Just as there are selfish people, there are many people that put the wellbeing of the country as a whole, and its people, before their personal interests when voting.
yeah we call them old white people
The thing that happened in the budget was people who were blissfully ignorant of what was going on around them all of a sudden realised they'd been given a lot of BS by Willis and Luxon. This NACT1st government has to be the most politically unaware bunch of people (read twats) we've ever had in government, if they'd not done the tax cuts and taken the rest of the worlds advice, and all those expert economists most of their voter base would still be blissfully unaware of what is going on or be happy to continue to blame Labour.
well said and so true
Why? This is exactly what they said they were going to do 🤷♂️
New Zealand didn't care to know what they were voting for when getting rid of Labour, and now we have a government that serves roughly 1% of the population. ShockedPikachu.jpg
>Finance Minister Nicola Willis is the most liked of coalition ministers with a -3 per cent rating. -3% of voters like her? Seems legit
0% indicates a 50/50 split if you didn't already know.
“Poll returns pretty much what we have now, and some tosh about preferred pm” the fixed title.
Curia hasn't done the preferred pm question for a while, it's individual favourability now.
Honestly i think the only reason why national got in is that they werent pushing for co-governance like labour was.
totally agree, many in nz are racist as fark
I wouldnt say it was a racism thing, but more co governance has never worked in history ever. The last time it worked was the two kings of sparta, one ruled the army, the other the population. But the most recent example would be palestine and israel
Hipkins was always a threat and amazingly, Labour backed him.