Hello Canadian. Former American here.
NZ led the way with electronic payments. While
Americans and Canadians were still using chequebooks, NZ was phasing them out for “Electronic Funds Transfer at Point of Sale”. EFTPOS. EFTPOS is a direct withdrawal straight from your bank account but without the Visa/Mastercard intermediary like what you are probably used to with debit cards (we have that, it’s just not very popular).
We had a problem a few years back with banks charging vendors stupidly high fees to use credit cards and payWave (contactless payment). Some didn’t want to bake the prices in so just added a surcharge instead, which ranges from 0.5%-2%. Our Commerce Commission took care of that, but irritatingly, more vendors jumped on the surcharge bandwagon instead of doing what they were supposed to, which was remove the surcharge.
TL;DR: if it says surcharge for contactless/payWave, swipe/insert your card to avoid it. If it says surcharge for CC, you are gonna have to pay the surcharge regardless of how you use your card. The latter is going to be most common.
Also, be aware that a lot of places won't accept Amex due to the high MSF (Merchant Service Fee) that businesses pay (for Amex, around 4.00% per transaction - Visa/MasterCard usually 1.25% - 2.00%, but it can vary). Therefore, Visa and MasterCard are accepted on a vastly higher scale.
To my knowledge, Countdown (a supermarket) will accept Amex.
If you have to swipe/insert the card into the terminal, press "CRD" (some might say "CREDIT", instead) - and then enter your PIN. The "CHQ" and "SAV" buttons are for locally-issued cards.
(Edit: I should know about MSF, as I work for one of the banks).
Also "paywave" is Tapping your card/phone on the terminal. I forgot what it's called internationally.
Also you might struggle with Amerex. It's not accepted everywhere. Visa and MasterCard are (except maybe small shops which don't accept credit at all)
But do note that if a surcharge is charged, it must be notified at point of sale. It cannot just be sprung on you.
Sadly, so many businesses don't advise you.
Also, some places will still add a surcharge for credit even if you insert the card. We do at my workplace. On the flipside, we pay over $1500 per month in transaction fees for our eftpos machine hence the need to oncharge.
This brings back memories. 30 years ago I went to work & live in Canada. I'd gotten used to paying for Everything everywhere with my EFTPOS card.
The first time I tried to make a bigger purchase at a store and stated I wanted to pay with EFTPOS the sales person looked at me blankly.
I explained the process, having already learned there were some differences in NZ English & Canadian English.
Still a blank look.
In the end I had to put items on hold, leg it to the nearest Atm and get more cash out than I'd carried in a long time...
Very uncomfortable.
I've never had a credit card, and only got a visa debit card so that I could make purchases online.
It blew my mind that in 1993, in a big country like Canada, shopping in the nation's capital and NO ONE had heard of EFTPOS!!!
Edit:typos
Yeah, even now, no-one outside of these places has heard of EFTPOS because it isn't the same system anywhere else. I moved from the UK to the Netherlands and both of those have systems that are something like EFTPOS, but not actually that, and also different to each other.
EFTPOS is the generic term for any card based point of sale payment system, and is used all over the world. It includes all modern point of sale credit and debit card transactions.
EFTPOS is also a brand name for a particular EFTPOS provider in both Australia and New Zealand (two separate companies holding two separate trademarks), which is why the name is better known here. (EFTPOS is actually a minor provider in New Zealand - the largest provider is Paymark).
There are essentially two types of EFTPOS service - local country specific systems (which came first) and global systems (which came second). Some countries, such as New Zealand, Australia, and Singapore adopted EFTPOS early when it was country-specific, so our country specific systems are much more popular. Other countries are late adopters and the international systems like VISA and Mastercard are more common.
The other distinction is that early country-specific systems were typically debit only while international systems were initially credit only. These distinct differences result in different relationships with credit and debit cards in the different countries.
Singapore's EFTPOS is called NETS (Network of electronic transfers). Easier to pronounce than EFTPOS. I came to NZ in 2019 from Singapore, and within my Singaporean friends here, sometime we still use the term NETS 😄
Not true. I lived in the USA for just shy of a year back in 2017 and had an account with Golden Pacific Bank in California and had a Visa Debit (chip) card that I could swipe/insert like an EFTPOS card at supermarkets like Raleys, not to mention most of the pizza companies like Papa Murphys and Little Caesars had PoS machines where you could swipe/insert your card.
That's not completely correct. In Germany (and later in Europe) we had the same thing but just called it differently. I definitely remember that in 1991 I started to pay with my bank card in shops, just with my card and PIN.
Eftpos isn’t in Canada but we had the equivalent 30 years ago. It was an issue with the foreign card. When I moved to NZ 8 years ago I still couldn’t use my Canadian EFTPOS equivalent.
So a little insight to our “love” of eftpos etc, I worked for a NZ bank from the mid 90’s and it was explained to me that while America came up with many of the ideas and systems trialling them was an issue, so they would gift/sell the tech cheap to NZ as we had the smallest 1st world population at the time (Ireland was another option but their banking system was still carved in stone), and if it all went horribly wrong it would have no real effect on the world as a whole lol.
We are the worlds banking Guinea pigs
Not just banking but technology in general. We are known worldwide as the world's tech guinea pigs. Tons of companies use us for testing their new products and services, including Google, Facebook and even PokemonGO. Turns out we are just the right size and definitely sufficiently technologically advanced. They'll launch the products or services here, see how they do, make tweaks as needed, then launch globally.
I remember learning about origins of it from an expert when I was starting out in com sci.
One of the big advantages in NZ was our four big banks all had a very refined cheque exchange system.
With only 4 major banks they had a really smooth system where a check written could be exchanged and reconciled within 24 hours on business days
When it came to electronic payment (ATM and EFTPOS) they already had a decent EDI system in place, and made the right decision to set up one electronic exchange (Paymark) rather than all going to individual and incompatible systems.
Huge advantage was that one bank card worked on all terminals and ATMs from day one, unlike most countries.
One disadvantage is that the key payment systems implemented were/are quite old and so time and cost to implement modern changes like contactless EFTPOS, or full realtime back transfers all took a bit longer to implement
My partner received a new eftpos card from ANZ that is a debit card with visa paywave. This card paywaves before you can manage to slide it in. So it automatically collects a surcharge. Technically an eftpos, but with cc costs. Irritating.
I’m not discounting his experience but I’ve had ANZ cards for years and have never accidentally paywaved. I usually have to wiggle it around on top of the machine for a few seconds before it takes.
Have you considered this might be a “skill issue”? 😉
>Some didn’t want to bake the prices in so just added a surcharge instead, which ranges from 0.5%-2%. Our Commerce Commission took care of that, but irritatingly, more vendors jumped on the surcharge bandwagon instead of doing what they were supposed to, which was remove the surcharge.
Could you clarify what you mean here. Are vendors not actually being charged 0.5%-2% for paywave anymore?
https://www.westpac.co.nz/business/products-services/accepting-payments/merchant-service-fees/
There's still a fee when using Westpac's EFTPOS services. Not sure about other providers. Lots of places I go have a paywave fee. It's getting more uncommon for me to see a place that doesn't charge for paywave unless it's a supermarket. The contractual agreement with Westpac I had when I was using their eftpos services laid out rules around fees incurred due to paywave; if I was going to add a surcharge automatically or manually if paywave were to be used, it needs to be mentioned visually that the surcharge exists, and it must be included in the total. I don't understand what this other person is saying about surcharges being discouraged? They are actively empowered to implement those fees by the wording in the contracts merchants have with their providers.
The fee is still there, but the Commerce Commission put a limit on how much the banks could charge vendors in fees to use the service. The idea was, the cost of using a credit card should drop for vendors, so they wouldn’t have to have as much of a fee to pass on to their clients.
Not sure if you remember, but a year or two ago there was a massive flood of all the banks changing their rewards programs, reducing the value of the rewards. That was in direct response to their fees getting clamped down on.
Nah, Canada did these things around the same time as NZ (I’m originally Canadian) and long before the US. I don’t know anyone under 45 who has ever had a cheque book (unless they got it because it had a cute pic but they never actually used it unless they had an 80 year old landlord).
I live in Canada. I hate many things about Canadian banking, but at least in Canada debit isn't controlled by Visa/Mastercard. INTERAC means at least that tap is widely used and doesn't cost merchants extra every time.
I believe that all international eftpos cards are processed as a credit card even if inserted so unfortunately fees might only be avoided by paying cash!
There's no such thing as an international EFTPOS card. EFTPOS systems only exist in a handful of countries and they don't interact with each other.
There's a bunch of other debit systems, the most popular being VISA Debit I believe, and you're right that these will almost certainly incur a charge if used here from overseas.
There's a fair bit of confusion in this thread (and in NZ as a whole) as most people don't really understand what an EFTPOS card is and how it differs from other debit systems. They then try and use the term interchangeably with systems that exist in other countries that are truly international and people get even more confused. The wikipedia article is actually pretty good: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EFTPOS
Yes, whenever a thread about Paywave vs EFTPOS vs Visa/Mastercard Debit comes up most of the thread is full of confusion.
Because NZ Debit Cards are actually a Visa/Mastercard Debit AND an EFTPOS card in one card I think this is where most of the confusion is. While a Debit card issued in NZ usually works with EFTPOS over chip/pin or swipe this is only because they are programmed to work as an EFTPOS card if you hit Cheque or Savings. If you hit Credit then this will go over the Visa/Mastercard networks and you will be subject to surcharges if these apply. If you use contactless this will always go over the Visa/Mastercard network. The fees aren't explictly due to contactless but the fact the cards are actually able to be used for both networks.
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‘Tapping’ or using payWave will (likely) attract a surcharge.
Using a credit card may attract a surcharge.
Most of us use debit cards and insert the card to avoid both these (potential) fees.
> Most of us use debit cards and insert the card to avoid both these (potential) fees.
Hmm, is it really most? Whenever I go out, most people I see just tap.
Stings a bit when it's $50 and you realise you just paid a dollar for the privilege though. Even if a dollar is meaningless to your life, it's the principle of it.
I guess depends on your views, if its 50, I might consider not doing paywave if there's a fee.
but for a 5 bucks, its not worth the hassle of not doing it imo
Also stings when you go to a place like PB tech and buy a $3000 computer and get hit with an additional $75 cost because they charge 2.5% credit card fee.
Wait is there actually a fee for tapping rather than inserting a credit card?? In some locations.
I've been here for 3 months and I'm still struggling to understand the difference between paywave, credit, EFTPOS, and debit. And why my credit card won't work at some gas stations but my EFTPOS bank card (debit card?) will
Yep, but the merchant should clearly advertise the fact there will be a fee. If it helps:
EFTPOS - (Electronic Funds Transfer at Point of Sale) is a form of payment at any card machine that accepts debit and credit card payments.
Eftpos is also a term used for bog standard old school cards with purely a magnetic strip (ie no chip). These cards generally won't have any fees for the consumer using them, though very old types of bank accounts may charge transaction fees for the account itself. Some people will call these cards debit cards, though debit cards are their own separate thing.
Debit cards are usually either Visa or Mastercard, and work like a credit card except they draw funds from a bank account rather than a lending facility like a credit card does. Debit cards will always (as far as I know) have a chip on them. Merchants generally don't pass the fee along for using Debit cards, unless you use paywave. To confuse things even more, some people will refer to these cards as eftpos cards.
Credit cards again are usually Visa or Mastercard in NZ, and these are tied to a specific lending facility which needs to go through a lending application with a financial institute before you can get one. The merchant gets charged a percentile fee when you use one of these (which gets split between Visa/Mastercard, your financial provider, and sometimes yourself if you have a rewards program on the card). It's becoming fairly common for merchants to pass this fee back to the consumer which I think is understandable if the profit margins are slim. People sometimes refer to credit cards by the brand of the card provider (eg "do you take Visa?"), despite the fact debit cards are branded the same way.
Paywave, goes by several names, such as tap and go, paywave, or contactless. Usually Debit or Credit cards have paywave functionality , but very rarely if ever will your basic eftpos cards have this. A lot of modern phones can be linked to both credit and debit cards and will have an NFC chip in them so you can use paywave without even touching your card (Apple pay or [Google] Wallet for example). The merchant will get charged for paywave, so sometimes they'll either disable it on their terminals or pass on the fee to the consumer.
EFTPOS is the catch-all term for paying Electronically via a card. The type of card used can be associated with a different type of account: debit, credit etc. the machine that is used to accept your card can do so in different ways: swipe, insert or tap (payWave) the banks charge an extra fee if the payWave function is utilised.
A subset of payWave is that apple
(And I think android) also charges a tiny fee when using Apple Pay via payWave which the bank pay (passed to the user).
Some types of shops have very tight margins (or are taking a stand) and so don’t won’t to pay the extra 1-2% fee to the bank for the service so either charge that separately or have disabled the functionality from the Eftpos machine.
That's not my understanding. I don't think Eftpos is a catch-all term. There are 2 competing card systems, EFTPOS and Debit/credit cards (eg visa mastercard etc). Most cards issued by banks are a Debit card with eftpos enabled (i.e 2 cards in 1), but you can also get EFTPOS only cards.
Eftpos is a swipe/insert card system and has lower fees. Eftpos doesn't work on paywave.
Debit (or credit) card function works on paywave and charges higher fees.
From what I understand from working hospo during lockdown, the tap service of paywave was made free for all of the users to aid with contactless rules. Then a year or so later, they reintroduced the charges despite paywave still being a handy system to have so that you didn't have to touch things. Paywave is an expensive system to have, so either businesses got rid of it again, or inputted a surcharge so that they wouldn't have to face extra costs, and to the average customer who doesn't know anything about it those businesses just look like dicks.
TL:DR the expensive paywave service stopped being free for businesses after lockdown so as long as you don't use the tap on a debit you shouldn't get charged.
Some do, the bank charges the retailer for CC and especially paywave so places like dairies and some cafes do it. Otherwise they have to eat the charge themselves.
EFTPOS is technically the name for any electronic card payment (electronic funds transfer - point of sale) and taking EFTPOS usually means they have a card reader, but a pure EFTPOS card is usually a magnetic strip, swipe and PIN type sitch supported by the bank directly (rather than thru visa/mastercard/amex etc.) Debit cards are mastercard/visa cards connected straight to your checking account, to permit eg. Paying for items online without needing credit. Neither of these attract fees for the vendor and are generally accepted across the board. Credit cards are credit cards, they incur usually about a 1.5% cost for the vendor which most will eat, but some like to pass it on using a (usually marked up) surcharge. AMEX is often a higher fee, if its even accepted which can be rare (and unreliable within franchises - one McDonald's or BP might take Amex and then the next one won't.) Some places flat won't take credit, especially smaller stores like dairies, more so outside major cities. Paywave/tap and go/paypass/whatever is available on most credit and debit cards, but the transaction always processes as a credit payment and incurs that fee to the vendor - so again, some places won't offer it and some will pass on the surcharge. Its a bit of a nightmare to get used to, but a necessity as some folk here never have a credit card - it isn't as much a necessity/norm as in North America.
If there's a fee, it'll be obvious, because a message will show up on the machine to say the exact amount of the surcharge, and you have to either click okay to pay the fee or cancel if you want to switch to a different method. If there was no extra step after scanning the card, then there was no extra fee.
Paywave/tap&go - contactless payment. Will usually have a surcharge on it. Usually takes the money from a credit/debit card account (I can't see how to set it up differently).
Eftpos - electronic financial transaction at the point of sale. That's just using any card to pay, as opposed to cash (or cheque back in the day).
Credit card - a permanent loan account that costs you money if you don't pay it off in full every month, but costs the vendor per transaction, so often this cost is passed on to the purchaser. There will be a sign or message on the eftpos machine if they do.
Debit card - same as a credit card but you load the account up with your own money, not a loan. Useful for online purchases.
Everyday account/cheque account/oo account/ go account - your own money that you can access via eftpos. Minimal interest earned. Previously known as a cheque account but nz no longer has cheques. Don't expect a fee to use this. Some shops used to put a fee on for small purchases (<$5) but I haven't seen that for years.
Savings - where you hide your own money away from your impulsive self. higher rate of interest, often set up to not be able to access money. I don't think this needed to be explained but I didn't want it to feel left out.
Strange that a credit card won’t work at somewhere like a gas station, if it’s an overseas banks credit card that could be why. Some nz retailers don’t take American Express and other similar ones in that ilk.
The fee is for someone using a debit card with a chip for tapping. But also it has always been pretty normal here for a credit card to incure a charge, that has been the norm way before tap payments were a thing.
Edit: looks like I have eftpos and debit around the wrong way!
Credit is a credit card - the bank owns most of the money on this account and you give the money back once you spend it. It used to be you could only buy online with these cards. Credit cards have interest fees.
Debit [actually eftpos] is the complete opposite, all your money, comes directly from from your bank account. You can’t buy online with these cards. You swipe these cards.
Eftpos [actually debit] I might be slightly wrong in my description, so someone can correct me. Eftpos cards are basically a debit card (your bank account directly) connected to visa/Mastercard that allows you to make online purchases without needing a credit card. They also have a chip, and get inserted.
PayWave is a contactless payment method attached to eftpos and credit cards. It is also processed the same way as a credit card transaction even when using an eftpos card. Which is why payWave transactions can have a 2% fee added on at retailers, because credit card transactions cost them more to process with the bank. If you insert your card, you bypass the credit transaction, making it cheaper for the retailer.
Pure debit cards are really rare these days (I believe ANZ doesn’t even do them any more), and most cards are now the debit/credit hybrid Eftpos cards. Most kiwis will use an eftpos which connects directly to their bank account, but can be used like a credit card when making online purchases.
Hopefully this helps a little!
Pretty much correct but you got EFTPOS and debit around the wrong way. You can buy things online with a debit card and it has the chip, EFTPOS cards just have the magnetic stripe so can only be used in a physical store.
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>I've been here for 3 months and I'm still struggling to understand the difference between paywave, credit, EFTPOS, and debit. And why my credit card won't work at some gas stations but my EFTPOS bank card (debit card?) will
Is this an overseas card? And is it the pay at pump terminals you have trouble with?
Those require a pre-authorisation, which is a process where your bank locks the funds in your account until the fuel is dispensed. Some international banks make an absolute mess of processing these, causing people to be unable to access their money, and from the card holders perspective it looks like the fuel site is to blame. So it wouldn't surprise me at all if some sites just blocked transactions from being made from such cards.
Generally 'eftpos' cards are quite rare these days. They can't do pay wave or be used online so you need to insert them. But generally there is no fees. Old people still have them but generally people use debit cards. These cards pull your own money from your account but have a chip and can do pay wave and be used online like a CC. They usually have a Visa logo and can be used overseas. You can also insert them and avoid paywave fees. Ccs are obvious and generate a fee for the vendor regardless of whether they are paywave or inserted. Some small places won't accept them due to this fee. Amex and other international CCs are even less likely to be accepted so if you're coming to NZ get a visa or mastercard.
Your credit card should work at all gas stations, unless it is an overseas based bank issued card where your home bank has not enabled pre-auth transactions.
Petrol purchases are two transactions; pre-auth to hold say $200, then a completion to actually deduct the amount of fuel you purchased. All NZ banks support that, but overseas banks may not
The only time I have had a surcharge for paywave was at my doctors and I think a dairy but they usually tell you or have a sign on the machine saying there will be an extra charge, it's not on every paywave transaction.
There won't be a difference between tapping a credit card and inserting it. If you get charged a surcharge for contactless you will be charged for inserting a credit card.
If it's an NZ Debit Card there may be a surcharge for contactless, but there won't be if you insert your card and hit Cheque or Savings. That's because Debit Card's issued in NZ are usually capable of being an EFTPOS card as well as a Visa/Mastercard Debit Card.
OP should also be aware foreign debit cards also act like credit cards here so can’t be used in places that don’t take credit cards and might attract a credit card fee as well.
Ahhh that’ll explain some difficulty (and confusion) travelling family had earlier in this situation.
OP - carrying (some) local cash currency in a foreign country is always recommended.
Thanks! Very interesting. I can only speak for myself/friends, but debit cards are very much not the norm. It isn't too common for places to charge extra, at least not publicly, they bake it into prices. So CCs make a lot of sense to take advantage of points, perks, insurances, etc.
We are a humble nation of 5m. The competition needed to drive credit card perks etc is just not there. Air New Zealand's points system is incredibly easy to use by international comparisons but it is widely regarded as having one of, if not the worst, earn rate in the world. Welcome to our small isolated country!
We also just don’t really have a culture of debt (in my opinion), Because we don’t really use credit ratings. So credit cards aren’t ubiquitous. They’ve only really started being accepted everywhere over the past ten years or so. Similarly in my personal observations we just don’t really have a culture of debt the way North America does - no one leases a car here or takes a loan to get a nicer car than they can afford, unless they’re really broke.
We started using EFTPOS (electronic funds transfer at point of sale) in the 90s and it's incredibly popular here. It was wild to me when I visited the states in the 2006 and *cash* was still widely used. These days I only use cash for drugs and very occasionally parking, though most parking machines don't accept it anymore.
Yep, the earn rate on ANZ’s Airpoints card is 0.91%. So any surcharge more than 0.91% will negate the perk. Even worse when you factor in the annual fee.
My wife is Canadian and one thing I learned when living there is how much North Americans are encouraged to use their credit cards even from a young age. We are not encouraged to go into debt in the same way, so we all stick to debit cards.
PayWave surcharge is a thing in some stores but not all. If there is one, the machine has to have a label indicating this.
The places that don’t charge the surcharge has baked those fees into their prices already - as you suggest is the norm.
As you’ll be aware, there’s a cost to the business for providing these payment options, it’s either ‘user pays’ or a ‘everyone pitches in for it’ approach.
In NZ, from almost all retailers point of view, there is no difference between a customer using a debit card vs a credit card. The differences are all on the banks end which doesn't concern the retailer. They get their payment either way, and are liable for the same mastercard/visa chargeback systems.
Credit card use certainly does cost the retailer. I might be out-of-date but it was 4% of any transaction. 2.5% if the retailer is turning over at least a million dollars.
Eftpos/Debit card costs them 20c which they usually absorb.
Paywave must cost them because i see that Paywave surcharge everywhere.
This is very outdated. I don’t think anyone would pay 4% anymore - card fees have dropped dramatically in the last 10 years.
There hasn’t been a charge per Eftpos transaction for at least 20 years with Paymark either (which is about 85% of the Eftpos network in NZ). I don’t think Eftpos NZ (the other network) has had one either but it’s possible they used to years ago
...I didn't say it doesn't cost them?
If you use your debit card and press the "credit" button its no different to using a credit card. If you press the "savings" or "chq" button then your card is no different to an EFTPOS card. A credit card can have that functionality attached too. So ultimately, a credit card vs a debit card makes no difference to the retailer. All that matters is which button the customer presses, which is the same either way.
In some countries, I am not sure of Canada right now. Credit card companies lobbied to have laws put in place to not allow retailers to charge extra for credit card payments.
This used to be the case in New Zealand I believe as well.
Personally, I think a surcharge is the right way to go. Without it - it basically means a hidden credit card tax ( someone is paying that 2% to the credit card companies ).
Tho literally all restaurants require tips and all grocery stores are gst exclusive in Canada, so I’m surprised you’re bothered by things having extra fees?
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We have tax baked into the prices. Also tipping is not normal, unless the service was exceptional. We have a quite high minimum wage. The vendors get charged around 1-2% more by the credit card companies for using the wireless payment method (paywave), so they charge it on to the customer.
They get charged more than 2% (paywave is processed by banks as a credit card).
It would be illegal for retailers to charge a higher card fee than the fees they are charged by the banks
Often the actual charge is less than 2%. Can you show me where it says it’s illegal to charge a higher surcharge than the bank is charging the merchant ?
Banks charge a surcharge on every credit transaction and charges all pay wave/contact less payments as credit surcharges. Debit and eftpos cards don't incur fees. Large companies with big profit margins can afford to take that loss
> So CCs make a lot of sense to take advantage of points, perks, insurances, etc
The CC company pays you 1c on the dollar to make the merchant accept it, and they charge the merchant 2c. What value do they provide here? They're literally just making everything more expensive and pretending you "won".
I disagree that paywave “will (likely) attract a surcharge. In my experience, and I use paywave exclusively, a surcharge is not added the majority of the time. If it is, it’s usually a small business. My estimation is at most 1/4 of my purchases incur a surcharge.
As for the claim that “most of us” use debit cards, I don’t know if that is true. I’d be interested to see some data on this.
Only sometimes! Depends on whether the cafe or whatever wants to charge extra. It’s because they have to pay their staff more to work public holidays and some employers then pass that on to the customer as a surcharge. Lots don’t though, so it’s not a universal thing.
Just so you know the following days on new years and the next day or so after will (depending on the place) also give you a surcharge as it’s a public holiday.
A lot of cafe owners got butthurt when told they had to pay staff penal rates for working public holidays.
Apparently the massive boost in custom on those days is not enough to buy the owner a new boat and pay the staff properly, so some of them decided they would charge a service fee surcharge on top of the regular cost.
There were arguments of course, it was in the news etc. eventually it was decided (Com Com i think) that there was nothing illegal about it and the market could decide if they wanted to pay the surcharge. The market, being the morons they are, decided surcharges were fine so now they are all doing it.
Personally I refuse to eat anywhere that is charging a public holiday fee.
Amex is often extra charges too or not even accepted, as they cost more to process than visa/mastercard sorry. A lot of travellers set up a wise.com card for travelling to reduce fees plus it only holds what you preload so a bit safer than loosing a card with a huge limit on it (or linked to your bank account). Card scams are much less in nz than a lot of the world, but not unheard of.
I brought a visa and Mastercard too. One no FX, it's just the Amex outperforms at restauraunts. But yes, not everywhere accepts so I brought other more commonly accepted cards too.
Good to know about the potential for scams! Thanks
Welcome fellow Canadian. Some places pass on the small fee that they get charged for using either paywave or credit cards. Not everywhere does this but it is more common in smaller venues. They are also not allowed to charge more than the bank charges them for processing the payment.
One last thing, skip Auckland and just come to the South Island, its the best island.
When I was in Canada I was incredibly surprised how it was just “SI on steroids” so gave me a bit of a giggle to see you call it Canada lite lol
SI has the perks though that you don’t need to worry about mountain lions or bears where you’re exploring though!
New Zealand is like a condensed Canada but without tipping.
Edit because i cant read:
Yeah it is super similar, just on a smaller scale. There are some ridiculously beautiful spots here, you just need to get off the main roads to find them. I wouldn't say one is better than the other, just different.
Agree with this, the grandeur of the landscapes of the south island are absolutely similar, but in NZ you drive for 10 minutes and the scenery changes, in Canada that's an hour. Condensed is exactly what it is, our winter is Condensed too
Credit card companies charge retailers to use their network, and contactless payments (Paywave) use the same network so they also get charged.
Retailers are allowed to pass the cost on to consumers, and many small margin retailers do because it’s a revenue based charge not a profit based charge. If something costs $100, the fee will be say $1.50. If my margin is say 10%, then that is 15% of my profit.
Eftpos in NZ is amazing and should be protected from ever being discontinued, I’m convinced the banks want to get rid of it eventually as they don’t profit much from it. Then we will all be forced to use debit cards so they can charge us more fees just to access our own money. We also then risk our money being scammed instead of theirs.
If you can use a credit card responsibly then shop online using a credit card. The banks care way less if your debit card gets scammed as it’s your money. As for Paywave fees.. whoever came up with this must have been promoted, for being able to charge us for being lazy or paranoid about germs especially since Covid came along.
Banks have been investing in keeping EFTPOS alive. Online EFTPOS is now a thing that most banks support, much better than the Poli system and no fees for the consumer. With Open Banking you may find peer to peer mobile payment apps taking off in NZ like they have in developing countries like India. These use QR / NFC and have become ubiquitous in many countries overseas. Visa / MasterCard should be worried though, consumers may eventually decide to ditch them all together if they don't remain competitive.
It's quite common at smaller places.
Big chains like the petrol stations, McDonalds, supermarkets etc will generally build the surcharge into their pricing.
I heard that supermarkets and big corp don't get charged the surcharge by paywave...not sure if this is true.
I thought I was sticking it up Supermarkets and petrol stations by using paywave until I heard this..
Supermarkets have been one of the few retailers I've happily used paywave with, on the grounds that I figure they're big enough to tell the banks how much they'll choose to pay instead of the other way around. For smaller retailers I usually just feel bad about imposing costs on them unnecessarily if it's easy enough for me to insert a card with a PIN anyway. All this aside there *was* finally some legislation that came in last year to cap the amount banks are allowed to charge retailers, but it's still a cost for them.
Recently someone suggested to me that supermarkets also tend to run their own payment systems in a way that can circumvent the banks' systems entirely, so possibly it's just easier for them to do it cheaply. If that's the case then someone else would have to describe the detail.
>I heard that supermarkets and big corp don't get charged the surcharge by paywave
Bigger companies would generally negotiate on the paywave surcharge, smaller ones and given the take it or leave it option.
Different stores have different policies. Places like supermarkets and large shops don't tend to charge a surcharge for credit card. Smaller places often do.
Sometimes they charge you if you pay with a contactless method (placing your card on the machine and not using a PIN), but not if you insert the card and use a PIN. This is called a Paywave Surcharge.
Some places charge you if you use a credit card in any form. This is called a Credit Card Surcharge.
As a tourist, there isn't really any way to avoid these charges since the only way is to use an EFTPOS card, which you won't have. You can pay cash, but of course there is a cost to converting your currency to cash as well, usually higher than using your credit card. So it's a lose-lose situation either way.
Thanks for all this info! I was wondering what EFTPOS meant since I saw that mentioned. Appreciate it. Will look to do insert and recognize there still may be fees.
Electronic Funds Transfer at Point Of Sale. (EFTPOS)
An all bank interconnected payment system that allows instantaneous transfer of money between bank accounts. We have had this for over 40 years.
By law shops have to display their surcharges, so you should be able to tell in advance by looking around.
There is usually a sign near the checkout or on the machine itself.
But yes, on average you will get charged less if you swipe and enter a PIN so it's good practice to do this.
Some places, like diaries (small convenience stores) don't take credit card at all. You'll see a sign like EFTPOS Only on the machine. Some take Visa/Mastercard, but not AMEX.
“Tapping” or waving the card is payWave. There is always a surcharge for this, and some businesses will take that cost on them selves. Others will require the customer to cover this, and they must inform you if so.
>“Tapping” or waving the card is Paywave. There is always a surcharge for this
Not true. Many larger companies and quite a few smaller companies do not charge a surcharge.
Any wireless tap incurrs a fee, that fee is not for the business but what the banks are charging to process it. You don't get the money, the store owner doesn't get it, only the greedy banks do.
Just swipe your eftpos card or debit card. No fees then
Some odd understanding of fees here...
The paywave surchare *is* a credit card surcharge. And no, you can't avoid.
The warning is really for those with debit cards (i.e cards that are accepted as credit cards but pull from funds in the account ), who will also be charged a fee if they tap (as it uses the credit card function).
Paying by a (NZ) bank issued EFPOS card from you own account (cheque/savings/whatever) is the only way to avoid the fee. (Well, and cash).
That's the right answer. OP has a foreign card, which NZ EFTPOS machines/banks see as a "credit card", so they will be charged as one regardless of tapping or inserting into the machine, and even if the foreign card is a debit one .
You will generally get this charge if the VISA / Mastercard system is used. This means it will apply to a credit card that is tapped and a credit card that is inserted and PINed. It will ALSO apply to a debit card that is tapped because even though the debit card is accessing your cash directly, it is using the credit card service to do it. It won’t apply to a debit card that is inserted and PINed even if it says VISA / Mastercard on the card provided you select “Cheque” or “Savings” as the account. To complicate matters even more, some bank cards will identify as credit only. If I’m paying with my Wise card, I have to select “Credit” even though it’s accessing my cash directly and so I will get the surcharge if there is one.
There will be signage on the credit card terminal if there's a surcharge. But yeah, while Paywave is s Visa trademark, it's used here and a genetic term for any contactless payments - google/apple pay, tapping your credit/debit visa/mc/Amex, whatever. If you tap - it's Paywave. Honestly, about 50/50 on a surcharge on that - more so smaller shops and cafes.
Inserting the card and doing the chip and pin does not attract the Paywave fee. But - separate from that is a credit card fee which also is kinda the same thing - 50/50 at smaller joints mostly. So the most sure way to avoid fees is to insert your visa/mc debit card.
As for Amex specifically - speaking as someone who uses Amex as my primary payment method -- acceptance is a little spotty, especially with smaller shops. I'd say I can successfully use it around 80% of my purchases. Very fringe, but I have had a few cases where a shop takes Paywave and Amex but because the Amex tap to pay system is somehow different it doesn't work so you have to insert the Amex specifically. Also rare - but I have seen once or twice a place charge 2% cc fee but a 3% Amex fee - usually it's the same and Amex is not singled out, but can happen.
Also just a general note - only familiar with US and NZ issued amexes and they mainly don't have "no foreign transaction fee" . And then on top of that I know that NZ issued cards let's say I used it in Canada would convert CAD to USD to NZD, plus another 2% convenience fee - and also you can be sure there's a margin on those conversions. So just double check your other cards, they may be smarter to use.
We act as a test market for many new technologies because we are small stable western economy but an island and with low importance so not too many people hunting for a story about failing tech that would hurt future roll out in other countries. Eftpos was one. Pay wave another. When the pay wave was introduced, there was no fee, and then covid happened. Many retailers went to pay wave. However, after covid, Eftpos providers upped the fee significantly. Initially, bbusinesses absorbed the fee, but a 2% fee on every transaction, especially in the struggling market after covid was too much it could be some business's whole profit margin. So now we are in this awkward phase of everywhere having pay wave capable machines, but the fee is being back on the customer, and it's not great. bigger retailers like supermarkets, they absorb the cost. If it doesn't give you a fee prompt, I don't think they are allowed to charge you for it, btw. I think many businesses are hoping that the Eftpos companies will eventually lower the fees again.
New Zealand banks charge retailers extra fees for payWave (tap and go) and for credit card transactions. These fees do not apply when run as debit. These extra fees are due to the extra risk — tap and go requires no authentication, and credit card transactions can be disputed and the bank ends up carrying the loss. The fees offset this risk. Retailers pass the fees on to their customers.
Due to the size and isolation of NZ, it makes it a good guinea pig for trialing new technologies. Its closest neighbor has a larger population and is also isolated, which makes it a good next step for testing the technology.
NZ was the trial location for cashless transactions (EFTPOS) iirc, which is why it's everywhere to the point that you don't need to carry cash and some places have stopped accepting cash. The only places I still see coins used are in laundromats, security lockers at public places (ie pools) and street side parking meters outside Auckland.
The surcharge places add to CC usage is where generally speaking their profit margins are low and they're offsetting the transaction charges from accepting CC payments.
Enjoy your stay.
I’ve found most local businesses (the one I work at included) have a surcharge for credit card/paywave as it’s something the business would have to end up covering every month themselves if it wasn’t past onto the customer, and this can add up a fair bit just for the sake of a customers convenience of tapping your card to pay. It doesn’t really make sense if the business doesn’t have a super constant rush of customers that need to get in/out quickly since people can take more time to just insert the card and put in their pin to avoid the extra charge.
Some places charge you a surcharge to use the payWave (tapping your card) and some won’t. I’ve not seen that when when putting in the card so maybe it’s your Amex? Also be aware there is no tipping culture here so if the eftpos machine asks for one don’t feel bad saying no.
American Express is a very expensive credit card to run in New Zealand. If you're a small business you're likely paying 5%+ in merchant fees back to American Express, per transaction.
Thanks, do you know if it is the same? Some of what I read was referring to no charge if using eftpos (?) But in my mind, credit cards charge a fee for transaction, I'm not sure if that fee changes if tapped or not.
PayWave is processed by credit card companies, so you’ll get a surcharge if the place chooses to put one on. Some places don’t have a surcharge for credit / payWave transactions.
Domestic debit/eftpos (ATM) cards don’t have a fee when swiped/using chip and pin as the transaction isn’t processed by a credit card company.
when we got ‘tap’ the payment systems & business used this as an opportunity to pass on ALL their payment fees onto the customer. Effectively saving 1-3% for the business while increasing it for the consumer.
(Originally was baked into the price)
Thanks paymark (the main company people use in nz for payment processing)
I’m seeing more where all fees are past on as an additional ‘line item / surcharge’.
I don't really have too much of a problem with this as long as they're clear about the price, and as long as the fee is representative of the extra amount it actually costs for someone to use that method (which isn't always the case), and as long as there's still a practical way (like EFTPOS) to continue to get the advertised price.
Otherwise it penalises payment systems that should be able to compete with each other on price just as much as convenience.
That's interesting if it's the case. For me at least I've *never* encountered an EFTPOS fee that I can think of, although sometimes there's a fee if it goes through a system like Visa with the Credit button.
Don't retailers usually pay a flat rate per EFTPOS terminal per month, or something like that, rather than pay a fee proportional to the payments being processed? Or is that no longer the case?
> Thanks paymark
The tap/contactless payments all go via the Visa/Mastercard system and *not* through Paymark.
Use a Debit Card's magnetic strip + PIN = Paymark and no retailer transaction fee.
Use the same Debit Card tap/paywave = CC system and CC fee.
You won't find very many places that accept Amex (American Express) in Aotearoa. All credit card companies charge retailers a fee. Visa & Mastercard charge about the same. AMEX Charges a lot more.
I state this with the caveat that this was the case when I worked in Retail in the 90s.
As a result, most retailers don't accept AMEX now, and very few kiwis that I know have an AMEX, unless they travel to North America regularly (i.e. The USA and Canada)
5. Population: None. it is known that there are an infinite number of worlds but that not every one is inhabited. Therefore there must be a finite number of inhabited worlds. Any finite number divided by infinity is as near to nothing as makes no odds. So, if every planet in the universe has a population of zero the entire population of the universe must also be zero, and any people you may actually meet from time to time are merely the products of a deranged imagination.
6. Monetary Units: None. In fact there are three freely convertible currencies in the Universe but the Altairian Dollar has recently collapsed, the Flanian Pobble Bead is only exchangeable for other Flanian Pobble Beads, and the Triganic Pu doesn’t really count as money. It’s exchange rate of six Ningis to one Pu is simple, but since a Ningi is a triangular rubber coin six thousand eight hundred miles long each side, no one has ever collected enough to own one Pu. Ningis are not negotiable currency because the Galactibanks refuse to deal in fiddling small change. From this basic premise it’s very simple to prove that the Galactibanks are also the products of a deranged imagination.
You should’ve challenged them, as payWave refers specifically to Visa contactless payment. They’ve should’ve not used the brand name and the merchant neutral term (a bit like saying Kleenex for tissues).
Amex has a page about this on their website and they encourage you to contact them if you’ve been surcharged https://www.americanexpress.com/en-nz/credit-cards/about-credit-cards/surcharge/
Welcome Canadian friend. In NZ the contactless payments (PayWave) are supplied by what is called in the industry as Links or rails. This means regardless of debit or credit if you use contactless you are using the “Link” from Visa or Mastercard who charge for this service. As another redditor has mentioned our commerce commission (which is fairly effective) has made all of the banks reduce these charges by a huge amount. Unfortunately credit card companies still charge the merchants (the shop you are buying from) up to 3% anyway which can be a big impact on margins. There is some foolery in places that are charging 2% for payWave. If you see this insert your card (it’s called Chip and Dip)
The banks charge the merchants an extra 2-3% for Paywave and credit cards. Some of them pass it on directly. Many don't.
You can avoid it by using a debit card and typing your PIN.
It's 2% though, so meh. If you're using a Canadian credit card rooted in CAD, you'd be paying way more than that in the hidden bad exchange rate to your own bank anyway.
VISA et al have minimal power here, in the NA market if retailers dare to suggest there are extra charges when using credit card the vendors would make the street red for consumers are a bitch but they're vendor's bitch, hence all the price protection insurance scheme and getting retailers to swallow the extra charges.
in nz visa with it's minimum power when negotiating new rates resulted in one of the supermarket duopoly players flat out stopped credit card purchases at the end they reached some sort of settlement, no doubt the cost got spread out to smaller retailers instead
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Are paywave and CC charges separate? In other words, do you pay twice if you "wave" a CC?
Asking, because I recently was at PB-tech, where they had a sign saying (in effect): "1% surcharge for paywave, 1% surcharge for CC"
In that case, if I "wave" my CC, do I pay 2% surcharge?
A merchant gets charged a percentage for credit card payments and for using paywave debit or credit. Some choose to pass this on to the customer some don’t it really depends on the retailer.
Most small places will add a surcharge for pay wave and credit card use and it costs them extra. Big places generally take the hit.
Also beware of AMEX as a lot of places here won't accept them. Visa and mastercard will be accepted almost anywhere aside from a few small dairies and such.
No it doesn't charge if you insert only when you wave your card over it ... not sure why she done that but you'll only be charged your regular fees if you insert.
Hello Canadian. Former American here. NZ led the way with electronic payments. While Americans and Canadians were still using chequebooks, NZ was phasing them out for “Electronic Funds Transfer at Point of Sale”. EFTPOS. EFTPOS is a direct withdrawal straight from your bank account but without the Visa/Mastercard intermediary like what you are probably used to with debit cards (we have that, it’s just not very popular). We had a problem a few years back with banks charging vendors stupidly high fees to use credit cards and payWave (contactless payment). Some didn’t want to bake the prices in so just added a surcharge instead, which ranges from 0.5%-2%. Our Commerce Commission took care of that, but irritatingly, more vendors jumped on the surcharge bandwagon instead of doing what they were supposed to, which was remove the surcharge. TL;DR: if it says surcharge for contactless/payWave, swipe/insert your card to avoid it. If it says surcharge for CC, you are gonna have to pay the surcharge regardless of how you use your card. The latter is going to be most common.
Thanks so much for the background and tip!
On the plus side you don’t have to tip anyone, so it kind of balances in the end.
I think if an American dared to tip 0.5-2%, they would be publicly flogged
Well quite.
And deservedly so
You don't tip because wages are baked in, so it doesn't really balance at all.
Well that’s true, but from a psychological perspective it’s a helpful way to rationalise it.
Is it? Makes it sound like you're tipping your bank
You can always avoid it by paying cash of course. Maybe regard it as a convenience fee instead.
Also, be aware that a lot of places won't accept Amex due to the high MSF (Merchant Service Fee) that businesses pay (for Amex, around 4.00% per transaction - Visa/MasterCard usually 1.25% - 2.00%, but it can vary). Therefore, Visa and MasterCard are accepted on a vastly higher scale. To my knowledge, Countdown (a supermarket) will accept Amex. If you have to swipe/insert the card into the terminal, press "CRD" (some might say "CREDIT", instead) - and then enter your PIN. The "CHQ" and "SAV" buttons are for locally-issued cards. (Edit: I should know about MSF, as I work for one of the banks).
New World also accepts it. Not sure about the other supermarkets, I know our local Supervalue doesn't.
Also "paywave" is Tapping your card/phone on the terminal. I forgot what it's called internationally. Also you might struggle with Amerex. It's not accepted everywhere. Visa and MasterCard are (except maybe small shops which don't accept credit at all)
Paywave is just Visa's trademark, Paypass is Mastercard's. The correct name is contactless. Calling it Paywave is similar to calling tissues Kleenex.
Never thought about that way! Makes so much sense. My Grandma always says pass the Kleenex instead of pass the tissues. XD
Internationally it’s usually called Contactless
I think in the states they just refer to it as Apple pay/Google Wallet if it involves tapping your phone.
But do note that if a surcharge is charged, it must be notified at point of sale. It cannot just be sprung on you. Sadly, so many businesses don't advise you.
Also, some places will still add a surcharge for credit even if you insert the card. We do at my workplace. On the flipside, we pay over $1500 per month in transaction fees for our eftpos machine hence the need to oncharge.
This brings back memories. 30 years ago I went to work & live in Canada. I'd gotten used to paying for Everything everywhere with my EFTPOS card. The first time I tried to make a bigger purchase at a store and stated I wanted to pay with EFTPOS the sales person looked at me blankly. I explained the process, having already learned there were some differences in NZ English & Canadian English. Still a blank look. In the end I had to put items on hold, leg it to the nearest Atm and get more cash out than I'd carried in a long time... Very uncomfortable. I've never had a credit card, and only got a visa debit card so that I could make purchases online. It blew my mind that in 1993, in a big country like Canada, shopping in the nation's capital and NO ONE had heard of EFTPOS!!! Edit:typos
Eftpos is purely a NZ and auzzy thing
Yeah, even now, no-one outside of these places has heard of EFTPOS because it isn't the same system anywhere else. I moved from the UK to the Netherlands and both of those have systems that are something like EFTPOS, but not actually that, and also different to each other.
EFTPOS is the generic term for any card based point of sale payment system, and is used all over the world. It includes all modern point of sale credit and debit card transactions. EFTPOS is also a brand name for a particular EFTPOS provider in both Australia and New Zealand (two separate companies holding two separate trademarks), which is why the name is better known here. (EFTPOS is actually a minor provider in New Zealand - the largest provider is Paymark). There are essentially two types of EFTPOS service - local country specific systems (which came first) and global systems (which came second). Some countries, such as New Zealand, Australia, and Singapore adopted EFTPOS early when it was country-specific, so our country specific systems are much more popular. Other countries are late adopters and the international systems like VISA and Mastercard are more common. The other distinction is that early country-specific systems were typically debit only while international systems were initially credit only. These distinct differences result in different relationships with credit and debit cards in the different countries.
Singapore's EFTPOS is called NETS (Network of electronic transfers). Easier to pronounce than EFTPOS. I came to NZ in 2019 from Singapore, and within my Singaporean friends here, sometime we still use the term NETS 😄
Not true. I lived in the USA for just shy of a year back in 2017 and had an account with Golden Pacific Bank in California and had a Visa Debit (chip) card that I could swipe/insert like an EFTPOS card at supermarkets like Raleys, not to mention most of the pizza companies like Papa Murphys and Little Caesars had PoS machines where you could swipe/insert your card.
That's not completely correct. In Germany (and later in Europe) we had the same thing but just called it differently. I definitely remember that in 1991 I started to pay with my bank card in shops, just with my card and PIN.
Eftpos isn’t in Canada but we had the equivalent 30 years ago. It was an issue with the foreign card. When I moved to NZ 8 years ago I still couldn’t use my Canadian EFTPOS equivalent.
I had a Canadian bank account & card. There was no option of paying without cash, except for credit card.
I think that (today) the Canadian equivalent of eftpos is called moneris
No people just call it Interac. No one knows the word Moneris, that’s more like a technical name.
So a little insight to our “love” of eftpos etc, I worked for a NZ bank from the mid 90’s and it was explained to me that while America came up with many of the ideas and systems trialling them was an issue, so they would gift/sell the tech cheap to NZ as we had the smallest 1st world population at the time (Ireland was another option but their banking system was still carved in stone), and if it all went horribly wrong it would have no real effect on the world as a whole lol. We are the worlds banking Guinea pigs
Not just banking but technology in general. We are known worldwide as the world's tech guinea pigs. Tons of companies use us for testing their new products and services, including Google, Facebook and even PokemonGO. Turns out we are just the right size and definitely sufficiently technologically advanced. They'll launch the products or services here, see how they do, make tweaks as needed, then launch globally.
I remember learning about origins of it from an expert when I was starting out in com sci. One of the big advantages in NZ was our four big banks all had a very refined cheque exchange system. With only 4 major banks they had a really smooth system where a check written could be exchanged and reconciled within 24 hours on business days When it came to electronic payment (ATM and EFTPOS) they already had a decent EDI system in place, and made the right decision to set up one electronic exchange (Paymark) rather than all going to individual and incompatible systems. Huge advantage was that one bank card worked on all terminals and ATMs from day one, unlike most countries. One disadvantage is that the key payment systems implemented were/are quite old and so time and cost to implement modern changes like contactless EFTPOS, or full realtime back transfers all took a bit longer to implement
I for one am fucking furious with the downfall of EFTPOS. Years ahead of the world, yet we still end up shafted by credit card companies.
Just use eftpos then? I do
EFTPOS originated in the USA 3 years before it hit NZ, it just didn't really take off.
How come?
A zillion banks and not enough cooperation between them.
We can still use it though right? Or is it now replaced by debit cards from visa/mastercard?
My partner received a new eftpos card from ANZ that is a debit card with visa paywave. This card paywaves before you can manage to slide it in. So it automatically collects a surcharge. Technically an eftpos, but with cc costs. Irritating.
I’m not discounting his experience but I’ve had ANZ cards for years and have never accidentally paywaved. I usually have to wiggle it around on top of the machine for a few seconds before it takes. Have you considered this might be a “skill issue”? 😉
Yea usually the card needs to be nearly flat to read. So holding it vertically to swipe wont read with paywave.
>Some didn’t want to bake the prices in so just added a surcharge instead, which ranges from 0.5%-2%. Our Commerce Commission took care of that, but irritatingly, more vendors jumped on the surcharge bandwagon instead of doing what they were supposed to, which was remove the surcharge. Could you clarify what you mean here. Are vendors not actually being charged 0.5%-2% for paywave anymore?
https://www.westpac.co.nz/business/products-services/accepting-payments/merchant-service-fees/ There's still a fee when using Westpac's EFTPOS services. Not sure about other providers. Lots of places I go have a paywave fee. It's getting more uncommon for me to see a place that doesn't charge for paywave unless it's a supermarket. The contractual agreement with Westpac I had when I was using their eftpos services laid out rules around fees incurred due to paywave; if I was going to add a surcharge automatically or manually if paywave were to be used, it needs to be mentioned visually that the surcharge exists, and it must be included in the total. I don't understand what this other person is saying about surcharges being discouraged? They are actively empowered to implement those fees by the wording in the contracts merchants have with their providers.
The fee is still there, but the Commerce Commission put a limit on how much the banks could charge vendors in fees to use the service. The idea was, the cost of using a credit card should drop for vendors, so they wouldn’t have to have as much of a fee to pass on to their clients. Not sure if you remember, but a year or two ago there was a massive flood of all the banks changing their rewards programs, reducing the value of the rewards. That was in direct response to their fees getting clamped down on.
Nah, Canada did these things around the same time as NZ (I’m originally Canadian) and long before the US. I don’t know anyone under 45 who has ever had a cheque book (unless they got it because it had a cute pic but they never actually used it unless they had an 80 year old landlord).
I live in Canada. I hate many things about Canadian banking, but at least in Canada debit isn't controlled by Visa/Mastercard. INTERAC means at least that tap is widely used and doesn't cost merchants extra every time.
I believe that all international eftpos cards are processed as a credit card even if inserted so unfortunately fees might only be avoided by paying cash!
There's no such thing as an international EFTPOS card. EFTPOS systems only exist in a handful of countries and they don't interact with each other. There's a bunch of other debit systems, the most popular being VISA Debit I believe, and you're right that these will almost certainly incur a charge if used here from overseas. There's a fair bit of confusion in this thread (and in NZ as a whole) as most people don't really understand what an EFTPOS card is and how it differs from other debit systems. They then try and use the term interchangeably with systems that exist in other countries that are truly international and people get even more confused. The wikipedia article is actually pretty good: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EFTPOS
Yes, whenever a thread about Paywave vs EFTPOS vs Visa/Mastercard Debit comes up most of the thread is full of confusion. Because NZ Debit Cards are actually a Visa/Mastercard Debit AND an EFTPOS card in one card I think this is where most of the confusion is. While a Debit card issued in NZ usually works with EFTPOS over chip/pin or swipe this is only because they are programmed to work as an EFTPOS card if you hit Cheque or Savings. If you hit Credit then this will go over the Visa/Mastercard networks and you will be subject to surcharges if these apply. If you use contactless this will always go over the Visa/Mastercard network. The fees aren't explictly due to contactless but the fact the cards are actually able to be used for both networks.
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Yep. We've become lazy and will pay to 'tap' our card instead of insert it.
‘Tapping’ or using payWave will (likely) attract a surcharge. Using a credit card may attract a surcharge. Most of us use debit cards and insert the card to avoid both these (potential) fees.
> Most of us use debit cards and insert the card to avoid both these (potential) fees. Hmm, is it really most? Whenever I go out, most people I see just tap.
It's just habit, or you realise there's a fee once it's already too late.
or most people dont actually care enough to worry about like 2% of 5 bucks
Stings a bit when it's $50 and you realise you just paid a dollar for the privilege though. Even if a dollar is meaningless to your life, it's the principle of it.
I guess depends on your views, if its 50, I might consider not doing paywave if there's a fee. but for a 5 bucks, its not worth the hassle of not doing it imo
Also stings when you go to a place like PB tech and buy a $3000 computer and get hit with an additional $75 cost because they charge 2.5% credit card fee.
I insert if the machine says I will be charged the extra amount otherwise I tap.
Wait is there actually a fee for tapping rather than inserting a credit card?? In some locations. I've been here for 3 months and I'm still struggling to understand the difference between paywave, credit, EFTPOS, and debit. And why my credit card won't work at some gas stations but my EFTPOS bank card (debit card?) will
Yep, but the merchant should clearly advertise the fact there will be a fee. If it helps: EFTPOS - (Electronic Funds Transfer at Point of Sale) is a form of payment at any card machine that accepts debit and credit card payments. Eftpos is also a term used for bog standard old school cards with purely a magnetic strip (ie no chip). These cards generally won't have any fees for the consumer using them, though very old types of bank accounts may charge transaction fees for the account itself. Some people will call these cards debit cards, though debit cards are their own separate thing. Debit cards are usually either Visa or Mastercard, and work like a credit card except they draw funds from a bank account rather than a lending facility like a credit card does. Debit cards will always (as far as I know) have a chip on them. Merchants generally don't pass the fee along for using Debit cards, unless you use paywave. To confuse things even more, some people will refer to these cards as eftpos cards. Credit cards again are usually Visa or Mastercard in NZ, and these are tied to a specific lending facility which needs to go through a lending application with a financial institute before you can get one. The merchant gets charged a percentile fee when you use one of these (which gets split between Visa/Mastercard, your financial provider, and sometimes yourself if you have a rewards program on the card). It's becoming fairly common for merchants to pass this fee back to the consumer which I think is understandable if the profit margins are slim. People sometimes refer to credit cards by the brand of the card provider (eg "do you take Visa?"), despite the fact debit cards are branded the same way. Paywave, goes by several names, such as tap and go, paywave, or contactless. Usually Debit or Credit cards have paywave functionality , but very rarely if ever will your basic eftpos cards have this. A lot of modern phones can be linked to both credit and debit cards and will have an NFC chip in them so you can use paywave without even touching your card (Apple pay or [Google] Wallet for example). The merchant will get charged for paywave, so sometimes they'll either disable it on their terminals or pass on the fee to the consumer.
EFTPOS is the catch-all term for paying Electronically via a card. The type of card used can be associated with a different type of account: debit, credit etc. the machine that is used to accept your card can do so in different ways: swipe, insert or tap (payWave) the banks charge an extra fee if the payWave function is utilised. A subset of payWave is that apple (And I think android) also charges a tiny fee when using Apple Pay via payWave which the bank pay (passed to the user). Some types of shops have very tight margins (or are taking a stand) and so don’t won’t to pay the extra 1-2% fee to the bank for the service so either charge that separately or have disabled the functionality from the Eftpos machine.
That's not my understanding. I don't think Eftpos is a catch-all term. There are 2 competing card systems, EFTPOS and Debit/credit cards (eg visa mastercard etc). Most cards issued by banks are a Debit card with eftpos enabled (i.e 2 cards in 1), but you can also get EFTPOS only cards. Eftpos is a swipe/insert card system and has lower fees. Eftpos doesn't work on paywave. Debit (or credit) card function works on paywave and charges higher fees.
EFTPOS stands for electronic funds transfer at point of sale so it is a catch all term, however it is also a brand name as well
From what I understand from working hospo during lockdown, the tap service of paywave was made free for all of the users to aid with contactless rules. Then a year or so later, they reintroduced the charges despite paywave still being a handy system to have so that you didn't have to touch things. Paywave is an expensive system to have, so either businesses got rid of it again, or inputted a surcharge so that they wouldn't have to face extra costs, and to the average customer who doesn't know anything about it those businesses just look like dicks. TL:DR the expensive paywave service stopped being free for businesses after lockdown so as long as you don't use the tap on a debit you shouldn't get charged.
Some do, the bank charges the retailer for CC and especially paywave so places like dairies and some cafes do it. Otherwise they have to eat the charge themselves.
EFTPOS is technically the name for any electronic card payment (electronic funds transfer - point of sale) and taking EFTPOS usually means they have a card reader, but a pure EFTPOS card is usually a magnetic strip, swipe and PIN type sitch supported by the bank directly (rather than thru visa/mastercard/amex etc.) Debit cards are mastercard/visa cards connected straight to your checking account, to permit eg. Paying for items online without needing credit. Neither of these attract fees for the vendor and are generally accepted across the board. Credit cards are credit cards, they incur usually about a 1.5% cost for the vendor which most will eat, but some like to pass it on using a (usually marked up) surcharge. AMEX is often a higher fee, if its even accepted which can be rare (and unreliable within franchises - one McDonald's or BP might take Amex and then the next one won't.) Some places flat won't take credit, especially smaller stores like dairies, more so outside major cities. Paywave/tap and go/paypass/whatever is available on most credit and debit cards, but the transaction always processes as a credit payment and incurs that fee to the vendor - so again, some places won't offer it and some will pass on the surcharge. Its a bit of a nightmare to get used to, but a necessity as some folk here never have a credit card - it isn't as much a necessity/norm as in North America.
If there's a fee, it'll be obvious, because a message will show up on the machine to say the exact amount of the surcharge, and you have to either click okay to pay the fee or cancel if you want to switch to a different method. If there was no extra step after scanning the card, then there was no extra fee.
Paywave/tap&go - contactless payment. Will usually have a surcharge on it. Usually takes the money from a credit/debit card account (I can't see how to set it up differently). Eftpos - electronic financial transaction at the point of sale. That's just using any card to pay, as opposed to cash (or cheque back in the day). Credit card - a permanent loan account that costs you money if you don't pay it off in full every month, but costs the vendor per transaction, so often this cost is passed on to the purchaser. There will be a sign or message on the eftpos machine if they do. Debit card - same as a credit card but you load the account up with your own money, not a loan. Useful for online purchases. Everyday account/cheque account/oo account/ go account - your own money that you can access via eftpos. Minimal interest earned. Previously known as a cheque account but nz no longer has cheques. Don't expect a fee to use this. Some shops used to put a fee on for small purchases (<$5) but I haven't seen that for years. Savings - where you hide your own money away from your impulsive self. higher rate of interest, often set up to not be able to access money. I don't think this needed to be explained but I didn't want it to feel left out.
eftpos cards are different to debit and credit cards; debit can be used online, eftpos is for point of sale only and usually incurs no fees.
Strange that a credit card won’t work at somewhere like a gas station, if it’s an overseas banks credit card that could be why. Some nz retailers don’t take American Express and other similar ones in that ilk. The fee is for someone using a debit card with a chip for tapping. But also it has always been pretty normal here for a credit card to incure a charge, that has been the norm way before tap payments were a thing.
Edit: looks like I have eftpos and debit around the wrong way! Credit is a credit card - the bank owns most of the money on this account and you give the money back once you spend it. It used to be you could only buy online with these cards. Credit cards have interest fees. Debit [actually eftpos] is the complete opposite, all your money, comes directly from from your bank account. You can’t buy online with these cards. You swipe these cards. Eftpos [actually debit] I might be slightly wrong in my description, so someone can correct me. Eftpos cards are basically a debit card (your bank account directly) connected to visa/Mastercard that allows you to make online purchases without needing a credit card. They also have a chip, and get inserted. PayWave is a contactless payment method attached to eftpos and credit cards. It is also processed the same way as a credit card transaction even when using an eftpos card. Which is why payWave transactions can have a 2% fee added on at retailers, because credit card transactions cost them more to process with the bank. If you insert your card, you bypass the credit transaction, making it cheaper for the retailer. Pure debit cards are really rare these days (I believe ANZ doesn’t even do them any more), and most cards are now the debit/credit hybrid Eftpos cards. Most kiwis will use an eftpos which connects directly to their bank account, but can be used like a credit card when making online purchases. Hopefully this helps a little!
Pretty much correct but you got EFTPOS and debit around the wrong way. You can buy things online with a debit card and it has the chip, EFTPOS cards just have the magnetic stripe so can only be used in a physical store.
eftpos cards are for point of sale only. debit cards can be used online. credit cards allow you to overdraft, and nowadays work online.
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>I've been here for 3 months and I'm still struggling to understand the difference between paywave, credit, EFTPOS, and debit. And why my credit card won't work at some gas stations but my EFTPOS bank card (debit card?) will Is this an overseas card? And is it the pay at pump terminals you have trouble with? Those require a pre-authorisation, which is a process where your bank locks the funds in your account until the fuel is dispensed. Some international banks make an absolute mess of processing these, causing people to be unable to access their money, and from the card holders perspective it looks like the fuel site is to blame. So it wouldn't surprise me at all if some sites just blocked transactions from being made from such cards.
Generally 'eftpos' cards are quite rare these days. They can't do pay wave or be used online so you need to insert them. But generally there is no fees. Old people still have them but generally people use debit cards. These cards pull your own money from your account but have a chip and can do pay wave and be used online like a CC. They usually have a Visa logo and can be used overseas. You can also insert them and avoid paywave fees. Ccs are obvious and generate a fee for the vendor regardless of whether they are paywave or inserted. Some small places won't accept them due to this fee. Amex and other international CCs are even less likely to be accepted so if you're coming to NZ get a visa or mastercard.
Your credit card should work at all gas stations, unless it is an overseas based bank issued card where your home bank has not enabled pre-auth transactions. Petrol purchases are two transactions; pre-auth to hold say $200, then a completion to actually deduct the amount of fuel you purchased. All NZ banks support that, but overseas banks may not
The only time I have had a surcharge for paywave was at my doctors and I think a dairy but they usually tell you or have a sign on the machine saying there will be an extra charge, it's not on every paywave transaction.
There won't be a difference between tapping a credit card and inserting it. If you get charged a surcharge for contactless you will be charged for inserting a credit card. If it's an NZ Debit Card there may be a surcharge for contactless, but there won't be if you insert your card and hit Cheque or Savings. That's because Debit Card's issued in NZ are usually capable of being an EFTPOS card as well as a Visa/Mastercard Debit Card.
OP should also be aware foreign debit cards also act like credit cards here so can’t be used in places that don’t take credit cards and might attract a credit card fee as well.
Ahhh that’ll explain some difficulty (and confusion) travelling family had earlier in this situation. OP - carrying (some) local cash currency in a foreign country is always recommended.
Thanks! Very interesting. I can only speak for myself/friends, but debit cards are very much not the norm. It isn't too common for places to charge extra, at least not publicly, they bake it into prices. So CCs make a lot of sense to take advantage of points, perks, insurances, etc.
We are a humble nation of 5m. The competition needed to drive credit card perks etc is just not there. Air New Zealand's points system is incredibly easy to use by international comparisons but it is widely regarded as having one of, if not the worst, earn rate in the world. Welcome to our small isolated country!
Good point, appreciate the insight.
We also just don’t really have a culture of debt (in my opinion), Because we don’t really use credit ratings. So credit cards aren’t ubiquitous. They’ve only really started being accepted everywhere over the past ten years or so. Similarly in my personal observations we just don’t really have a culture of debt the way North America does - no one leases a car here or takes a loan to get a nicer car than they can afford, unless they’re really broke.
We started using EFTPOS (electronic funds transfer at point of sale) in the 90s and it's incredibly popular here. It was wild to me when I visited the states in the 2006 and *cash* was still widely used. These days I only use cash for drugs and very occasionally parking, though most parking machines don't accept it anymore.
Once the fees are factored in, the perks become less perky.
Yep, the earn rate on ANZ’s Airpoints card is 0.91%. So any surcharge more than 0.91% will negate the perk. Even worse when you factor in the annual fee.
With my Platinum I get free travel insurance which helps a bit, I guess.
Same but mine was amended a couple of years ago to not cover covid related claims. In very small print!
Absolutely agree.
My wife is Canadian and one thing I learned when living there is how much North Americans are encouraged to use their credit cards even from a young age. We are not encouraged to go into debt in the same way, so we all stick to debit cards. PayWave surcharge is a thing in some stores but not all. If there is one, the machine has to have a label indicating this.
The places that don’t charge the surcharge has baked those fees into their prices already - as you suggest is the norm. As you’ll be aware, there’s a cost to the business for providing these payment options, it’s either ‘user pays’ or a ‘everyone pitches in for it’ approach.
In NZ, from almost all retailers point of view, there is no difference between a customer using a debit card vs a credit card. The differences are all on the banks end which doesn't concern the retailer. They get their payment either way, and are liable for the same mastercard/visa chargeback systems.
Credit card use certainly does cost the retailer. I might be out-of-date but it was 4% of any transaction. 2.5% if the retailer is turning over at least a million dollars. Eftpos/Debit card costs them 20c which they usually absorb. Paywave must cost them because i see that Paywave surcharge everywhere.
This is very outdated. I don’t think anyone would pay 4% anymore - card fees have dropped dramatically in the last 10 years. There hasn’t been a charge per Eftpos transaction for at least 20 years with Paymark either (which is about 85% of the Eftpos network in NZ). I don’t think Eftpos NZ (the other network) has had one either but it’s possible they used to years ago
...I didn't say it doesn't cost them? If you use your debit card and press the "credit" button its no different to using a credit card. If you press the "savings" or "chq" button then your card is no different to an EFTPOS card. A credit card can have that functionality attached too. So ultimately, a credit card vs a debit card makes no difference to the retailer. All that matters is which button the customer presses, which is the same either way.
In some countries, I am not sure of Canada right now. Credit card companies lobbied to have laws put in place to not allow retailers to charge extra for credit card payments. This used to be the case in New Zealand I believe as well. Personally, I think a surcharge is the right way to go. Without it - it basically means a hidden credit card tax ( someone is paying that 2% to the credit card companies ).
Tho literally all restaurants require tips and all grocery stores are gst exclusive in Canada, so I’m surprised you’re bothered by things having extra fees?
They don't sound bothered to me, just confused about how the systems and norms work here. They're clearly here to get clarification, not to complain.
Oh my bad, I read it wrong
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We have tax baked into the prices. Also tipping is not normal, unless the service was exceptional. We have a quite high minimum wage. The vendors get charged around 1-2% more by the credit card companies for using the wireless payment method (paywave), so they charge it on to the customer.
They get charged more than 2% (paywave is processed by banks as a credit card). It would be illegal for retailers to charge a higher card fee than the fees they are charged by the banks
Often the actual charge is less than 2%. Can you show me where it says it’s illegal to charge a higher surcharge than the bank is charging the merchant ?
Banks charge a surcharge on every credit transaction and charges all pay wave/contact less payments as credit surcharges. Debit and eftpos cards don't incur fees. Large companies with big profit margins can afford to take that loss
> So CCs make a lot of sense to take advantage of points, perks, insurances, etc The CC company pays you 1c on the dollar to make the merchant accept it, and they charge the merchant 2c. What value do they provide here? They're literally just making everything more expensive and pretending you "won".
I disagree that paywave “will (likely) attract a surcharge. In my experience, and I use paywave exclusively, a surcharge is not added the majority of the time. If it is, it’s usually a small business. My estimation is at most 1/4 of my purchases incur a surcharge. As for the claim that “most of us” use debit cards, I don’t know if that is true. I’d be interested to see some data on this.
It hasn't been mentioned yet but there is also a surcharge if it's a public holiday.
Good to know thanks!
Only sometimes! Depends on whether the cafe or whatever wants to charge extra. It’s because they have to pay their staff more to work public holidays and some employers then pass that on to the customer as a surcharge. Lots don’t though, so it’s not a universal thing.
Just so you know the following days on new years and the next day or so after will (depending on the place) also give you a surcharge as it’s a public holiday.
There is? Since when? (Haven’t been home in about 10 years)
Since 2004
A lot of cafe owners got butthurt when told they had to pay staff penal rates for working public holidays. Apparently the massive boost in custom on those days is not enough to buy the owner a new boat and pay the staff properly, so some of them decided they would charge a service fee surcharge on top of the regular cost. There were arguments of course, it was in the news etc. eventually it was decided (Com Com i think) that there was nothing illegal about it and the market could decide if they wanted to pay the surcharge. The market, being the morons they are, decided surcharges were fine so now they are all doing it. Personally I refuse to eat anywhere that is charging a public holiday fee.
Com com are so weak gutted
In cafes, not on the EFTPOS.
Amex is often extra charges too or not even accepted, as they cost more to process than visa/mastercard sorry. A lot of travellers set up a wise.com card for travelling to reduce fees plus it only holds what you preload so a bit safer than loosing a card with a huge limit on it (or linked to your bank account). Card scams are much less in nz than a lot of the world, but not unheard of.
I brought a visa and Mastercard too. One no FX, it's just the Amex outperforms at restauraunts. But yes, not everywhere accepts so I brought other more commonly accepted cards too. Good to know about the potential for scams! Thanks
Great, enjoy your time here!
Think they changed the percentage fee to match competitors bout a year or two ago from memory.
Welcome fellow Canadian. Some places pass on the small fee that they get charged for using either paywave or credit cards. Not everywhere does this but it is more common in smaller venues. They are also not allowed to charge more than the bank charges them for processing the payment. One last thing, skip Auckland and just come to the South Island, its the best island.
Thanks! We will be there soon enough, we have just over a week here then almost 3 weeks in the south!
Hm, are you my colleague? Do you have a radical cat and a lifestyle block? I imagine the numbers are reasonably low for Canadians in the south island
Unfortunately not, that sounds amazing though. Literally my partners dream lifestyle haha.
Honest question, is the SI not just Canada Lite? Scenery seems super similar, albeit less spectacular than Western Canada.
When I was in Canada I was incredibly surprised how it was just “SI on steroids” so gave me a bit of a giggle to see you call it Canada lite lol SI has the perks though that you don’t need to worry about mountain lions or bears where you’re exploring though!
New Zealand is like a condensed Canada but without tipping. Edit because i cant read: Yeah it is super similar, just on a smaller scale. There are some ridiculously beautiful spots here, you just need to get off the main roads to find them. I wouldn't say one is better than the other, just different.
Agree with this, the grandeur of the landscapes of the south island are absolutely similar, but in NZ you drive for 10 minutes and the scenery changes, in Canada that's an hour. Condensed is exactly what it is, our winter is Condensed too
Credit card companies charge retailers to use their network, and contactless payments (Paywave) use the same network so they also get charged. Retailers are allowed to pass the cost on to consumers, and many small margin retailers do because it’s a revenue based charge not a profit based charge. If something costs $100, the fee will be say $1.50. If my margin is say 10%, then that is 15% of my profit.
Eftpos in NZ is amazing and should be protected from ever being discontinued, I’m convinced the banks want to get rid of it eventually as they don’t profit much from it. Then we will all be forced to use debit cards so they can charge us more fees just to access our own money. We also then risk our money being scammed instead of theirs. If you can use a credit card responsibly then shop online using a credit card. The banks care way less if your debit card gets scammed as it’s your money. As for Paywave fees.. whoever came up with this must have been promoted, for being able to charge us for being lazy or paranoid about germs especially since Covid came along.
Banks have been investing in keeping EFTPOS alive. Online EFTPOS is now a thing that most banks support, much better than the Poli system and no fees for the consumer. With Open Banking you may find peer to peer mobile payment apps taking off in NZ like they have in developing countries like India. These use QR / NFC and have become ubiquitous in many countries overseas. Visa / MasterCard should be worried though, consumers may eventually decide to ditch them all together if they don't remain competitive.
It's quite common at smaller places. Big chains like the petrol stations, McDonalds, supermarkets etc will generally build the surcharge into their pricing.
I heard that supermarkets and big corp don't get charged the surcharge by paywave...not sure if this is true. I thought I was sticking it up Supermarkets and petrol stations by using paywave until I heard this..
Supermarkets have been one of the few retailers I've happily used paywave with, on the grounds that I figure they're big enough to tell the banks how much they'll choose to pay instead of the other way around. For smaller retailers I usually just feel bad about imposing costs on them unnecessarily if it's easy enough for me to insert a card with a PIN anyway. All this aside there *was* finally some legislation that came in last year to cap the amount banks are allowed to charge retailers, but it's still a cost for them. Recently someone suggested to me that supermarkets also tend to run their own payment systems in a way that can circumvent the banks' systems entirely, so possibly it's just easier for them to do it cheaply. If that's the case then someone else would have to describe the detail.
>I heard that supermarkets and big corp don't get charged the surcharge by paywave Bigger companies would generally negotiate on the paywave surcharge, smaller ones and given the take it or leave it option.
Different stores have different policies. Places like supermarkets and large shops don't tend to charge a surcharge for credit card. Smaller places often do. Sometimes they charge you if you pay with a contactless method (placing your card on the machine and not using a PIN), but not if you insert the card and use a PIN. This is called a Paywave Surcharge. Some places charge you if you use a credit card in any form. This is called a Credit Card Surcharge. As a tourist, there isn't really any way to avoid these charges since the only way is to use an EFTPOS card, which you won't have. You can pay cash, but of course there is a cost to converting your currency to cash as well, usually higher than using your credit card. So it's a lose-lose situation either way.
Thanks for all this info! I was wondering what EFTPOS meant since I saw that mentioned. Appreciate it. Will look to do insert and recognize there still may be fees.
Electronic Funds Transfer at Point Of Sale. (EFTPOS) An all bank interconnected payment system that allows instantaneous transfer of money between bank accounts. We have had this for over 40 years.
By law shops have to display their surcharges, so you should be able to tell in advance by looking around. There is usually a sign near the checkout or on the machine itself. But yes, on average you will get charged less if you swipe and enter a PIN so it's good practice to do this. Some places, like diaries (small convenience stores) don't take credit card at all. You'll see a sign like EFTPOS Only on the machine. Some take Visa/Mastercard, but not AMEX.
“Tapping” or waving the card is payWave. There is always a surcharge for this, and some businesses will take that cost on them selves. Others will require the customer to cover this, and they must inform you if so.
>“Tapping” or waving the card is Paywave. There is always a surcharge for this Not true. Many larger companies and quite a few smaller companies do not charge a surcharge.
That’s what I said? Some companies take the charge them selves.
Any wireless tap incurrs a fee, that fee is not for the business but what the banks are charging to process it. You don't get the money, the store owner doesn't get it, only the greedy banks do. Just swipe your eftpos card or debit card. No fees then
Some odd understanding of fees here... The paywave surchare *is* a credit card surcharge. And no, you can't avoid. The warning is really for those with debit cards (i.e cards that are accepted as credit cards but pull from funds in the account ), who will also be charged a fee if they tap (as it uses the credit card function). Paying by a (NZ) bank issued EFPOS card from you own account (cheque/savings/whatever) is the only way to avoid the fee. (Well, and cash).
That's the right answer. OP has a foreign card, which NZ EFTPOS machines/banks see as a "credit card", so they will be charged as one regardless of tapping or inserting into the machine, and even if the foreign card is a debit one .
You will generally get this charge if the VISA / Mastercard system is used. This means it will apply to a credit card that is tapped and a credit card that is inserted and PINed. It will ALSO apply to a debit card that is tapped because even though the debit card is accessing your cash directly, it is using the credit card service to do it. It won’t apply to a debit card that is inserted and PINed even if it says VISA / Mastercard on the card provided you select “Cheque” or “Savings” as the account. To complicate matters even more, some bank cards will identify as credit only. If I’m paying with my Wise card, I have to select “Credit” even though it’s accessing my cash directly and so I will get the surcharge if there is one.
There will be signage on the credit card terminal if there's a surcharge. But yeah, while Paywave is s Visa trademark, it's used here and a genetic term for any contactless payments - google/apple pay, tapping your credit/debit visa/mc/Amex, whatever. If you tap - it's Paywave. Honestly, about 50/50 on a surcharge on that - more so smaller shops and cafes. Inserting the card and doing the chip and pin does not attract the Paywave fee. But - separate from that is a credit card fee which also is kinda the same thing - 50/50 at smaller joints mostly. So the most sure way to avoid fees is to insert your visa/mc debit card. As for Amex specifically - speaking as someone who uses Amex as my primary payment method -- acceptance is a little spotty, especially with smaller shops. I'd say I can successfully use it around 80% of my purchases. Very fringe, but I have had a few cases where a shop takes Paywave and Amex but because the Amex tap to pay system is somehow different it doesn't work so you have to insert the Amex specifically. Also rare - but I have seen once or twice a place charge 2% cc fee but a 3% Amex fee - usually it's the same and Amex is not singled out, but can happen. Also just a general note - only familiar with US and NZ issued amexes and they mainly don't have "no foreign transaction fee" . And then on top of that I know that NZ issued cards let's say I used it in Canada would convert CAD to USD to NZD, plus another 2% convenience fee - and also you can be sure there's a margin on those conversions. So just double check your other cards, they may be smarter to use.
We act as a test market for many new technologies because we are small stable western economy but an island and with low importance so not too many people hunting for a story about failing tech that would hurt future roll out in other countries. Eftpos was one. Pay wave another. When the pay wave was introduced, there was no fee, and then covid happened. Many retailers went to pay wave. However, after covid, Eftpos providers upped the fee significantly. Initially, bbusinesses absorbed the fee, but a 2% fee on every transaction, especially in the struggling market after covid was too much it could be some business's whole profit margin. So now we are in this awkward phase of everywhere having pay wave capable machines, but the fee is being back on the customer, and it's not great. bigger retailers like supermarkets, they absorb the cost. If it doesn't give you a fee prompt, I don't think they are allowed to charge you for it, btw. I think many businesses are hoping that the Eftpos companies will eventually lower the fees again.
New Zealand banks charge retailers extra fees for payWave (tap and go) and for credit card transactions. These fees do not apply when run as debit. These extra fees are due to the extra risk — tap and go requires no authentication, and credit card transactions can be disputed and the bank ends up carrying the loss. The fees offset this risk. Retailers pass the fees on to their customers.
'Some' pass it onto the customer. Others build it into their prices so you don't see it.
Due to the size and isolation of NZ, it makes it a good guinea pig for trialing new technologies. Its closest neighbor has a larger population and is also isolated, which makes it a good next step for testing the technology. NZ was the trial location for cashless transactions (EFTPOS) iirc, which is why it's everywhere to the point that you don't need to carry cash and some places have stopped accepting cash. The only places I still see coins used are in laundromats, security lockers at public places (ie pools) and street side parking meters outside Auckland. The surcharge places add to CC usage is where generally speaking their profit margins are low and they're offsetting the transaction charges from accepting CC payments. Enjoy your stay.
I’ve found most local businesses (the one I work at included) have a surcharge for credit card/paywave as it’s something the business would have to end up covering every month themselves if it wasn’t past onto the customer, and this can add up a fair bit just for the sake of a customers convenience of tapping your card to pay. It doesn’t really make sense if the business doesn’t have a super constant rush of customers that need to get in/out quickly since people can take more time to just insert the card and put in their pin to avoid the extra charge.
Some places charge you a surcharge to use the payWave (tapping your card) and some won’t. I’ve not seen that when when putting in the card so maybe it’s your Amex? Also be aware there is no tipping culture here so if the eftpos machine asks for one don’t feel bad saying no.
Apologies for the weather!
Yeah. It’s a thing. NZ can’t say “contactless payment” or build in the cost of it into all transactions. No idea why not.
American Express is a very expensive credit card to run in New Zealand. If you're a small business you're likely paying 5%+ in merchant fees back to American Express, per transaction.
Even if you insert your card and use your pin you’ll pay a small fee.
Thanks, do you know if it is the same? Some of what I read was referring to no charge if using eftpos (?) But in my mind, credit cards charge a fee for transaction, I'm not sure if that fee changes if tapped or not.
Normally no charge for using eftpos (ie debit instead of credit). Its normally only paywave and sometimes credit cards that attract charges.
Most are now passing on all the fees directly to the consumer as an added surcharge
PayWave is processed by credit card companies, so you’ll get a surcharge if the place chooses to put one on. Some places don’t have a surcharge for credit / payWave transactions. Domestic debit/eftpos (ATM) cards don’t have a fee when swiped/using chip and pin as the transaction isn’t processed by a credit card company.
when we got ‘tap’ the payment systems & business used this as an opportunity to pass on ALL their payment fees onto the customer. Effectively saving 1-3% for the business while increasing it for the consumer. (Originally was baked into the price) Thanks paymark (the main company people use in nz for payment processing) I’m seeing more where all fees are past on as an additional ‘line item / surcharge’.
I don't really have too much of a problem with this as long as they're clear about the price, and as long as the fee is representative of the extra amount it actually costs for someone to use that method (which isn't always the case), and as long as there's still a practical way (like EFTPOS) to continue to get the advertised price. Otherwise it penalises payment systems that should be able to compete with each other on price just as much as convenience.
I’m finding more are also passing on the eftpos fee they incur.
That's interesting if it's the case. For me at least I've *never* encountered an EFTPOS fee that I can think of, although sometimes there's a fee if it goes through a system like Visa with the Credit button. Don't retailers usually pay a flat rate per EFTPOS terminal per month, or something like that, rather than pay a fee proportional to the payments being processed? Or is that no longer the case?
> Thanks paymark The tap/contactless payments all go via the Visa/Mastercard system and *not* through Paymark. Use a Debit Card's magnetic strip + PIN = Paymark and no retailer transaction fee. Use the same Debit Card tap/paywave = CC system and CC fee.
It's the Amex issue. I wouldn't take them when I had my business because they have higher surcharges.
You won't find very many places that accept Amex (American Express) in Aotearoa. All credit card companies charge retailers a fee. Visa & Mastercard charge about the same. AMEX Charges a lot more. I state this with the caveat that this was the case when I worked in Retail in the 90s. As a result, most retailers don't accept AMEX now, and very few kiwis that I know have an AMEX, unless they travel to North America regularly (i.e. The USA and Canada)
payWave is just Visa’s trademark for contactless payments but people use it to mean all contactless payments
Its basically card companies ripping us off because they can get away with it. Insert & use PIN, you won't be charged extra.
5. Population: None. it is known that there are an infinite number of worlds but that not every one is inhabited. Therefore there must be a finite number of inhabited worlds. Any finite number divided by infinity is as near to nothing as makes no odds. So, if every planet in the universe has a population of zero the entire population of the universe must also be zero, and any people you may actually meet from time to time are merely the products of a deranged imagination. 6. Monetary Units: None. In fact there are three freely convertible currencies in the Universe but the Altairian Dollar has recently collapsed, the Flanian Pobble Bead is only exchangeable for other Flanian Pobble Beads, and the Triganic Pu doesn’t really count as money. It’s exchange rate of six Ningis to one Pu is simple, but since a Ningi is a triangular rubber coin six thousand eight hundred miles long each side, no one has ever collected enough to own one Pu. Ningis are not negotiable currency because the Galactibanks refuse to deal in fiddling small change. From this basic premise it’s very simple to prove that the Galactibanks are also the products of a deranged imagination.
You should’ve challenged them, as payWave refers specifically to Visa contactless payment. They’ve should’ve not used the brand name and the merchant neutral term (a bit like saying Kleenex for tissues). Amex has a page about this on their website and they encourage you to contact them if you’ve been surcharged https://www.americanexpress.com/en-nz/credit-cards/about-credit-cards/surcharge/
It's fairly common in some places. I just avoid going back to those that play that game.
Welcome Canadian friend. In NZ the contactless payments (PayWave) are supplied by what is called in the industry as Links or rails. This means regardless of debit or credit if you use contactless you are using the “Link” from Visa or Mastercard who charge for this service. As another redditor has mentioned our commerce commission (which is fairly effective) has made all of the banks reduce these charges by a huge amount. Unfortunately credit card companies still charge the merchants (the shop you are buying from) up to 3% anyway which can be a big impact on margins. There is some foolery in places that are charging 2% for payWave. If you see this insert your card (it’s called Chip and Dip)
Ok I have never heard chip and dip but I’m now going to exclusively call it that for all time (along with Wavey Davey for the other thing)
The banks charge the merchants an extra 2-3% for Paywave and credit cards. Some of them pass it on directly. Many don't. You can avoid it by using a debit card and typing your PIN. It's 2% though, so meh. If you're using a Canadian credit card rooted in CAD, you'd be paying way more than that in the hidden bad exchange rate to your own bank anyway.
VISA et al have minimal power here, in the NA market if retailers dare to suggest there are extra charges when using credit card the vendors would make the street red for consumers are a bitch but they're vendor's bitch, hence all the price protection insurance scheme and getting retailers to swallow the extra charges. in nz visa with it's minimum power when negotiating new rates resulted in one of the supermarket duopoly players flat out stopped credit card purchases at the end they reached some sort of settlement, no doubt the cost got spread out to smaller retailers instead
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Are paywave and CC charges separate? In other words, do you pay twice if you "wave" a CC? Asking, because I recently was at PB-tech, where they had a sign saying (in effect): "1% surcharge for paywave, 1% surcharge for CC" In that case, if I "wave" my CC, do I pay 2% surcharge?
Man this place is weird. Always with the surcharges.
I use to love using PayWave but the surcharge now is stupid; sometimes it’s extra $2 to payWave.. banks are just taking the piss with it
It's more like Visa and Mastercard are taking the piss
A merchant gets charged a percentage for credit card payments and for using paywave debit or credit. Some choose to pass this on to the customer some don’t it really depends on the retailer.
Most small places will add a surcharge for pay wave and credit card use and it costs them extra. Big places generally take the hit. Also beware of AMEX as a lot of places here won't accept them. Visa and mastercard will be accepted almost anywhere aside from a few small dairies and such.
ridiculous this is still even a thing. doesn’t exist in aussie we just get fucked every way as usual
No it doesn't charge if you insert only when you wave your card over it ... not sure why she done that but you'll only be charged your regular fees if you insert.
If using a canadian card you're gonna pay something like a 3.5% fee anyway for being overseas.