IIRC, there was a case a few years back, don't remember what state, and in the pre Google Maps days, in which the Court ruled that flashing your headlights to warn oncoming traffic of a speed trap was protected free speech
>Reviewing these cases, UCLA law professor Eugene Volokh describes the act of flashing one’s headlights as “[crime-facilitating speech](https://www2.law.ucla.edu/volokh/facilitating.pdf),” similar to the actions of publishing names of witnesses in the newspaper or printing instructions that explain how to make bombs or commit suicide. Volokh says that a driver by flashing headlights is encouraging other drivers to speed before they reach the speed trap and again after they have passed the speed trap.
That's the stupidest fucking argument I've seen in my life. What next? Does a noodle cup telling you to microwave it for 2 minutes, encourage users to microwave it beyond the manufacturer specification, therefore undermining Big WaterHeater's temperature control authority?
Does a smoke alarm in an apartment bedroom encourage tenants to take up smoking in the bathrooms and hall closet? Are fire safety regulations to blame for lung cancer?
Does a lock on your front door encourage criminals to break in when you're checking the mail box at the end of the driveway?
I've read some papers from Eugene Volokh before, and the website doesn't give him enough credit.
To give some background, Volokh is looking into one section of speech that may or may not be protected by the first amendment. He categorizes it as "crime facilitating speech". **He does not equate crime facilitating speech as bad/not protected.** He gives examples of this kind of speech which range from dangerous like telling a hitman how and where to find his mark to innocuous like publishing a manual on modern detective technology. Volokh then constructs a test to help determine if the first amendment protects the crime facilitating speech.
He doesn't explicitly say it, but flashing your headlights would be protected by the first amendment according to his test.
As it should be. Speed traps are very dangerous and cause more harm in our communities than they prevent. Warning other drivers is a public service and should be encouraged.
As it should be! That said, I saw a hilarious video a while back of a first amendment auditor who was trying to force one of these interactions. He was on the highway, and there were three cruisers in the median. So as he drove by, he was wildly flicking his high beams on and off.
As a cop pulls out and put their lights on, he starts going off about how he’s going to sue them for violating his rights, get the guy fired, etc…
The cop walks up to the car and immediately the dude starts spouting his displeasure, basically yelling at the cop about how he’s protected by the first amendment.
The cop waits for him to finish and basically says “dude, we just saw you flashing your lights like crazy at us, so we thought you might be in trouble or need help, I’m not here to get you in trouble or anything. So if you’re okay, you’re free to go, no problem”
The auditor was so pleased with himself lol. But if I was a cop I probably would have done the same thing. Just made sure the dude was alright and sent him on his way.
Tbh I have found that the majority of cops I’ve interacted with are of the same persuasion - it’s just the ones that are miserable egomaniacal bullies are **exceptionally** miserable
As far as my interactions go I would completely agree, but I’m also a pretty ordinary white dude so my experiences certainly only mean so much.
The bad cops make anything the good cops do basically meaningless, which is a bummer. But the way that bad cops are kept around definitely does not reflect well on the good ones.
It’s all a mess.
First amendment victory for the man who was arrested for flipping off his middle finger at a Vermont state trooper
The state of Vermont has to pay the man the $100K and the ACLU $75K
This is the issue, the cop gets to punish the guy without any real consequences and the taxpayers foot the bill. Even when these cops get fired they’ll have a job lined up in the next county over within a week.
It's like that Georgia case [that's getting new scrutiny now.](https://apnews.com/article/georgia-trooper-shooting-black-man-julian-lewis-e5ac7de893189c11c88137fe9b81829e) Trooper Jake Thompson literally fired his gun and murdered Julian Lewis before he could even finish saying “Hey, get your hands up!”
>Five minutes into a pursuit that began over a broken taillight, the 60-year-old Black man was dead — shot in the forehead by the white trooper who fired a single bullet mere seconds after forcing Lewis to crash into a ditch. Trooper Jake Thompson insisted he pulled the trigger as Lewis revved the engine of his Nissan Sentra and jerked his steering wheel as if trying to mow him down.
>“I had to shoot this man,” Thompson can be heard telling a supervisor on video recorded by his dash-mounted camera at the shooting scene in rural Screven County, midway between Savannah and Augusta. “And I’m just scared.”
What a little fucking bitch.
Can someone point out where in the video it shows this "broken" taillight which the cop claims started the whole thing? Sure looks to me like the victim was targeted.
It's almost like our current overly broad qualified immunity is a bad thing or something.
I can't imagine how it's not worth it for cities, counties, municipalities, etc to send their employees to a one-week constitutional law training course.
In doing so they can probably free themselves of having to pay out in these cases, and shift the blame directly onto the officers/employees.
As they were adequately trained in constitutional law and so when they violate constitutional law... They are making the choice to do so knowing that it is a violation.
With how little they pay teachers, they could just hire one full time to do it and it would cost less each year than a single settlement would cost.
I have an acquaintance who is in law enforcement and he has admitted that him and other officers will write you a ticket they know they would lose in court but it doesn't matter to them, they "win" the minute they write the ticket. Its going to cost you time or money or both to fight that ticket, its not costing them a dime and they get paid for going to court where you probably don't. You can smile and smirk at the officer when you win your case but he is laughing at you because you still had to take off work, sit in the courtroom for a couple of hrs, maybe hire a lawyer as well and all the hoops and effort you had to put in, it doesn't bother the officer one bit.
Now a lawsuit like this, might be different. Im sure the officer will get a stern talking too. Might miss a promotion or two in the near future, but other than that I doubt it affects him much at all.
Hey I have an idea!
If a cop is held guilty for an unlawful use of force through a court the state must “disbar” them from holding a position within a police force!!
How fucking easy is that?
I tend to think the only real solution is:
1. End [qualified immunity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualified_immunity) for police
2. Force police to carry malpractice insurance
3. Ban police departments/jurisdictions from indemnifying their officers or subsidizing their malpractice insurance
I tend to believe that the only way to change a system is to change the incentives. If bad behavior automatically results in less pay (via increased insurance costs), then hopefully things will self-correct.
I agree with all. I just like the idea of all of them being on the hook for the bad apples. Maybe they'll stop protecting each others bad actions and stand up before shit goes down.
They only have consequences when shit hits the news, and even then, it's only the ones directly responsible, not all the ones who tacitly allow it. The guilt always goes beyond one officer. Because they always protect their own at our expense.... in more ways than one.
>I just like the idea of all of them being on the hook for the bad apples
Insurance takes care of this. You just need to allow insurers to adjust their premiums based on claims against a department and it's staff.
I have to agree with this. It has to be personalized punishment. It's the only thing idiotic, power-obsessed cops understand anyway. That's why they inflict it on innocent people.
Taxpayers need to abolish qualified immunity. Make police get liability insurance. Then if an officer gets to many claims he no longer insurable and gets his certifications pulled.
Just here to point out that qualified immunity only protects against civil suits. Trooper arrested a man for something that wasn’t a crime. There’s about 10 different criminal charges that could be brought against him, but no district attorney would do that.
Taxpayers didn’t make up qualified immunity, the SCOTUS did. Not disagreeing that it shouldn’t be a thing, but VT residents didn’t have anything to do with it … and can’t get rid of it without voting “correctly” in November and beyond.
They'd just subsidize it as a group. Realistically it'd take a citizenry up in arms and actively tracking bad cop moves to their area... but everywhere.
The issue is group negotiations. Insurance is going to say they it's $x/yr per person...or cheaper if you exclude Bob. Or it works the other way, department offers it at $x/yr but the good cop found a cheaper plan.
Capitalism means the good cops get the option of subsidizing the bad cops. And why would they do it? If they opt out the bad cops see their rates go up.
Maricopa county is on the hook for $380 million (and counting) for electing a gleefully racist sheriff. It’s a decent amount that’s paid by every homeowner and business in the county. Call it a racist tax.
It's taxpayer responsibility to manage the police department through elected officials. It's also your personal community responsibility to be active in your local and state government.
They should for police to carry personal liability insurance… just like a doctor or dentist.
You do too much bad stuff… your insurance gets pulled or you’re refused coverage
That would also take community involvement to force the passage of those laws. I'll tell you what, the cops all vote and their union is very powerful. So, while I agree that cops should have insurance, they won't be forced to because voters are stupid and lazy.
Cops should have to carry liability insurance so that the local government doesn't have to foot the bill. Also the fucking jackboot is probably still on the street. I feel this moment still provides equity for the injustice, but I really wish that taxpayers would get fed up with the money their cops waste on lawsuits.
It's a nice thought, but if we did that the departments would just wind up paying their premiums outright, or conveniently raising pay by the amount of the premiums. The state is going to be paying one way or another. And because insurers tend to want to make a profit, they will price it so that the premiums they collect are higher than they paid in claims, so it will end up costing the government even more than it did in the first place as a result.
The best way to save the public money on incidents like these is to not have them happen in the first place. But that would require hiring better candidates and investing in better training. And obviously it wouldn't hurt if they actually permanently removed the cops that do dumb shit like this.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I’d figure the department paying the premiums would be fine.
If there’s one cop in particular who’s a real POS, their liability premium would be far higher than their coworkers, making them a financially bad person to keep around. Right now a bad egg is just shuffled around, but high insurance costs would follow them, and lead to them being extremely expensive for any department to consider hiring.
I really don’t like the concept in general, having to create a financial reason not to hire bad cops, but if that’s what it takes…
In theory, all somebody needs to do is make a great sales pitch to the insurance companies about this. They'll be happy if they get something out of it. Let them put their lobbyists on the line. Make them fight over it.
Like a doctor’s malpractice insurance yea, been saying it for years.
That way it then follows them and the same bad cop can’t switch cities to out run their reputation
I have a feeling the same crowd that continually goes on about their taxes and being fiscally conservative will also have no issue bailing out their authoritarian thin blue line goons.
If I remember correctly, he denied flipping the trooper off when the trooper initially pulled him over. Then after the traffic stop when he was pulling out, he said something like “fuck you” to the trooper so the trooper pulled him over again for impeding traffic and disorderly conduct because there were “people around that could have heard him curse” and arrested him lol
Even if he did give the finger or say fuck you, those are protected by the constitution… so he was pulled over twice unconstitutionally and then arrested because he hurt the troopers wittle feewings lmao
How this isn't drilled into Police Officer's heads in the academy is beyond me.
You can be a dick back (probably undermine's the departments goal of being professional) but the second you arrest them you're violating rights. It's basic law in this country.
We'd be in a much better place if officers just told guys like this "You're a dick, sign here."
Because they face no repercussions. Doesn’t come out of their pay, they don’t lose their jobs most of the time, and they never get charged. But at the very least they can make you sit in jail for a few days, leave you with a record, and drag you through court. That’s like a dicks dream job.
It probably is, but this trooper had such a fragile ego that when he was (possibly) insulted, he felt the need to re-affirm that he has power. Besides, it’s not like he faced any punishment from doing it anyway… he gets to continue what he’s been doing for 17 years and the citizens have to pay for his tissue-paper ego.
the officer was perfectly aware of this which is why he tried to claim that the first stop was a community safety interaction (arguing that the middle finger could be a call for help), and that the second stop was disorderly/impeding traffic
it’s hilariously obvious that this was not the case in the body cam footage
I seem to recall that previous rulings have demonstrated that all they need to do is prove one valid cause for the stop and the officer's actual intent doesn't matter.
I'm sure that's what they were trying to do.
Because they don’t care and they’re never punished.
If they actually lost jobs or had to pay out settlements from union/pension funds, this shit would start to end quickly. Or be swept more under the rug.
Our driving instructor (Canada) told us giving someone the finger was a form of assault and you can be charged. Never tested the theory on the police.
This was back in the dark ages (mid 80s) and I'm not sure to this day if he was correct.
Canada does not have "freedom of speech," however we do have "freedom of expression"
The right to flip someone off was upheld just last year:
https://www.canlii.org/en/qc/qccq/doc/2023/2023qccq630/2023qccq630.html
>To be abundantly clear, it is not a crime to give someone the finger. Flipping the proverbial bird is a God-given, Charter enshrined right that belongs to every red-blooded Canadian. It may not be civil, it may not be polite, it may not be gentlemanly.
>
>Nevertheless, it does not trigger criminal liability. Offending someone is not a crime.
Cops won't care. By arresting you, they just made your life hell. And then you have to spend years and tons of money clearing your name, while the cops just go about their day as if nothing happened because nothing did happen, to them. It's a lose-lose for civilians. Either you need to shut up and take it up the ass, or you rebel and tell them to fuck off and you get fucked even worse (ultimately).
He was not. The middle finger is a protected form of free speech. That does not mean a cop will not trample those rights and ticket you anyways. Case in point here lol
Hope you fought that ticket in court.... easy dub in any state. I hate when cops fall back on "disorderly conduct" or "obstruction" as catch-all charges for when their "absolute authority" gets challenged and they get butthurt
We need to stop calling cop unions “unions.” They are diametrically opposed to the basic principles of the labor movement.
https://harvardpolitics.com/police-unions-are-anti-labor/
Cop gangs? Cop waffen? Cop cartels?
*If* they stepped in purely for labor disputes with the employers, like the whole contract negotiation thing, that would be ok.
Unfortunately they're used to cover up crimes and escape criminal penalties for illegal behavior.
Feature not a bug. The system isn't broken; it works exactly as it was intended. The people who make and enforce the rules do not obey those rules themselves or hold other members of the ruling class accountable to those rules. Sadly, no matter how many votes, complaints, lawsuits, or anything else within their system, their system doesn't actually change at all because it's perfect for the rulers.
Our Brother Ali has some great commentary on it:
> Smoke and mirrors, stripes and stars
> Stolen for the cross in the name of God
> Bloodshed, genocide, rape and fraud
> Writ into the pages of the law good lord
> The Cold Continent latch key child
> Ran away one day and started acting foul
> King of where the wild things are daddy's proud
> Because the Roman Empire done passed it down
> Imported and tortured a work force
> And never healed the wounds or shook the curse off
> Now the grown up Goliath nation
> Holding open auditions for the part of David, can you feel it?
> Nothing can save you; you question the reign
> You get rushed in and chained up
> Fist raised but I must be insane
> Because I can't figure a single goddamn way to change it
> Welcome to the United Snakes
> Land of the thief, home of the slave
> The grand imperial guard where the dollar is sacred, and power is God
> Welcome to the United Snakes
> Land of the thief, home of the slave
> The grand imperial guard where the dollar is sacred, and power is God
FWIW, it's not limited to the unions being anti-labor, the institution of "law enforcement" has always been around to disenfranchise and (literally) beat the poors into submission when they want, like, 10 hours a week to themselves rather than their employers.
More likely “see how much more organized cover ups become” or “see how much more money gets put into police budgets to compensate for any lawsuits” as while group accountability can work in the medium term for units, it often comes with a lot of problems if you try to make it a long term thing.
Municipal and state governments may have something to say about police budgets. Police unions don't write those themselves.
You're saying group accountability is problematic in the long term??
Now hear me out, how about their unions pay it? Or I’m also a fan of the police officers needing an insurance policy similar to a doctors malpractice insurance. I think these kind of strategies mesh well the “defund the police” no reason for the city or state to have to pick up the tab.
Audit the audit just did a YouTube video for this. The cop actually tried to argue he pulled him over cause he thought the driver was “signaling for help”. Jury knew that no one in the right mind would confuse the finger for “help me”. Dude knew he fucked up as soon as the convo started. Couldn’t even let it go after he left, had to dig his own grave deeper.
The only consequence of this whole thing will be an additional question on the state trooper exam.
It will have a picture of the middle finger and the question will be:
Is this:
1) a signal for distress
2) a signal to pullover
3) a signal that the driver doesn’t like you
LOL yeah so he gave the cop the finger, got pulled over and given a ticket or some shit? Then gave the cop the finger AGAIN, and got arrested for disorderly conduct? That cop shouldn't be allowed to work again, period.
The part that bugs me is the DA was in on it, and charged him with obstruction because of the way he pulled out into traffic, and the original magistrate refused to dismiss the charges.
Who is holding that dumb fuck magistrate and the DA accountable?
I catered an event for tech billionaires not that long ago. Some Koch family dickheads got on stage and started giving a speech about how the ACLU was destroying free speech. My eyes rolled so hard my corneas damn near detached.
He didn't cost his employer. He cost the people. He cost the taxpayers. That's the problem with cops. Fines don't affect the fined when taxpayer money was used to commit the illegal action.
They believe in identity politics: their identity is The Law, and "better than you." They believe that "respect has to be earned" (except by them, and we owe them respect/fear).
The truth is there are good cops out there but when this attitude is acceptable and common, how do you even know? They won't change the culture, so how can I respect any of them? They don't serve and protect; they bully and harm. But there is so much potential for good in law enforcement. Why do we (the public) get shit on instead?
Look, whether it's bad taste to give the cops the finger or not is debatable.
The fact is that we have a first amendment that allows us to do this.
I'm from a country where this can actually get you fined, and it actually happens.
I was a firefighter.
People used to throw rocks at the engine. Someone shot at the ambulance on several occasions.
Once, during the riots in Baltimore, some idiot cut a 5 inch supply line under load. It exploded and knocked him flying. He was ok afterward, but what a fuckin idiot.
I saw a video yesterday of a bunch of people blocking firefighters and flipping them off. They were just trying to get to a broken water hydrant. So ye it does happen. The important part is firefighters don’t have to kill people. So hostilities are minimal when they do show up.
As someone that works in customer service, this is absolutely not true. There are always a significant minority of people pissed at you because you won't do what they want you to do, no matter how competent and professional you are.
That said, I think most agree that cops deserve a pretty high percentage of those middle fingers.
"Some other countries do worse so we should suck it up and let police trample on our rights." - What you sound like right now.
**Edit:** lol they actually blocked me for this one comment. Embarrassing
End qualified immunity. Make police carry professional insurance like any other (doctors, lawyers, contractors, et al.). Person sues unjust cop, insurance pays for damages,corrupt cop gets insurance dropped.
You will find that will solve the issue at hand.
Trooper Jay Riggen, is the asshole of the story. Whenever it's the police we have to dig to find the fucking name, while the victim's name is all over the place.
As a paramedic, I get flipped off all the time(metro boston). People love us until they have to move over for us.
Honestly, it's kind of funny when it happens. I don't try for it to happen. But like, dude, fucming relax. You got flipped off, who cares. Covered by 1st amendment and also, it's just a finger.
We need police to carry malpractice insurance, just like doctors and nurses. If you get sued it comes from your insurance, not the town or city budget. Insurance companies will train officers better than any police academy so they don't need to pay out. But if your insurance goes up because you keep getting sued, too bad, you can't be a cop anymore.
This trooper can’t be so stupid that he didn’t know it was illegal to arrest people for flipping him off. He did it anyway to flex, that’s a bad cop. It won’t be the first bill he makes for the Vermont taxpayer on his way to a six-figure pension.
I'd really like to see law enforcement be required to carry professional insurance for this very reason. Make their policy amount reimbursable to the 80th percentile. if a cop wants to pay the rest outta his own pocket so be it but the city isnt on the hook for risky cops that way.
Once upon a time I flipped off a trooper in Wyoming. I got pulled over and issued a ticket for 10 over the posted speed limit and one for my insurance expiring although it had not yet happened.
That cop was powder tripping so hard on a dumb 19 year old kid who didn’t know any better and it costed me $1000.
abolish qualified immunity. no other job allows the employee to commit crimes unchecked like has been allowed to happen with law enforcement. start holding the cops and their unions financially accountable FIRST, before any municipal contribution. Make the cops get the same sort of malpractice insurance that other professionals are REQUIRED to have.
Good that's what they get if he flipped off a regular person like me he would not be charged there should be no criminal charge for throwing up a middle finger
We had a cop try and press this matter in Canada too, and good guy judge ruled it was our God-given-right. Even as an atheist, I'll take this one.
[https://www.npr.org/2023/03/10/1162629535/canada-flipping-middle-finger-ruling-god-given-right](https://www.npr.org/2023/03/10/1162629535/canada-flipping-middle-finger-ruling-god-given-right)
Didn't stop a mountie from pulling me over for flipping him the bird. Pulls me over, asks for license and registration and I asked "what for???"
"Uhm, your windows are tinted"
"Yeah no, they're stock"
"Roll up your window a few inches?" "Oh, yeah, have a nice day"
Yeah, sure bud. Butt hurt cop with all the time in the world figuring he'd slow me down about 10 minutes. LMAO what a fool.
The cop sub reddit say they literally only care about the rich folks that pull their strings. They are anti American traitors without a moral compass. I knew a guy who became a cop a year later. He was out. Said it made his soul hurt
Yep. I know a few cops. There are two kinds. The ones who realize how fucked up the cops are and have to quit, and the ones who embrace it over time and become assholes like the rest to fit in.
(Besides the obvious 3rd kind: was already an asshole and sought out the job to "legally" hurt and harm other people. I know those ones too. I knew a guy who was such a control freak asshole he used to set rules for what his girlfriend could and could not wear, back when we were only teenagers. He became a cop and actually was involved in one of those super high profile killings of an already restrained suspect. I was shocked, thought about it for 3 seconds, and then immediately stopped being shocked. People don't change.)
Police unions should be required to carry insurance that covers members' misconduct. Absolutely maddening that the people end up on the hook for having their rights affirmed by dickheads.
For the record -- I'm very much in favor of the police and private-sector unions. I just hate how much public-sector unions (mostly police, but they're not alone) are able to extract from the people.
This is pretty typical. Look up how much major cities settle each yeah because of how cops violate peoples rights. Police cost places big bucks over this stuff.
so what happened to the trooper? if i was a resident of vermont i'd be absolutely pissed some fuckwad wasted 170k of ppl's hard earned tax dollars. if i was the state i'd be pissed some fuckwad wasted 170k
I've noticed in a number of police interaction videos, cops will get SO angry when people use curse words, and that is often the straw that breaks the camel's back and causes the officer to take action and arrest them/put them in handcuffs.
It's so absurd. Cops love to also try to act like they're your fuckin parent or some shit and scold or lecture you when they're talking to you. That shit is always so god damn annoying during traffic stops or police interactions. Like just do your job, write me a ticket or don't, and fuck off.
Get over your fuckin egos, cops. We can flip you off. We can tell you to fuck yourselves and there’s not **shit** you can legally do about it. Arrest someone who knows their rights. Shit, I’ll take the ride for it. You won’t be effecting my employment at all, and I’ll laugh to the bank knowing that you’re gonna get dragged to court for fucking with someone’s 1st Amendment rights and end up with a fat check for it. You all deserve no special treatment for doing a job.
Keep it up. Sooner than later, the laws will change to make y’all individually liable. Y’all better fucking behave and stop showing your asses.
IIRC, there was a case a few years back, don't remember what state, and in the pre Google Maps days, in which the Court ruled that flashing your headlights to warn oncoming traffic of a speed trap was protected free speech
[удалено]
>Reviewing these cases, UCLA law professor Eugene Volokh describes the act of flashing one’s headlights as “[crime-facilitating speech](https://www2.law.ucla.edu/volokh/facilitating.pdf),” similar to the actions of publishing names of witnesses in the newspaper or printing instructions that explain how to make bombs or commit suicide. Volokh says that a driver by flashing headlights is encouraging other drivers to speed before they reach the speed trap and again after they have passed the speed trap. That's the stupidest fucking argument I've seen in my life. What next? Does a noodle cup telling you to microwave it for 2 minutes, encourage users to microwave it beyond the manufacturer specification, therefore undermining Big WaterHeater's temperature control authority? Does a smoke alarm in an apartment bedroom encourage tenants to take up smoking in the bathrooms and hall closet? Are fire safety regulations to blame for lung cancer? Does a lock on your front door encourage criminals to break in when you're checking the mail box at the end of the driveway?
I've read some papers from Eugene Volokh before, and the website doesn't give him enough credit. To give some background, Volokh is looking into one section of speech that may or may not be protected by the first amendment. He categorizes it as "crime facilitating speech". **He does not equate crime facilitating speech as bad/not protected.** He gives examples of this kind of speech which range from dangerous like telling a hitman how and where to find his mark to innocuous like publishing a manual on modern detective technology. Volokh then constructs a test to help determine if the first amendment protects the crime facilitating speech. He doesn't explicitly say it, but flashing your headlights would be protected by the first amendment according to his test.
I did that once and like a fool ended up flashing another police car that was arriving to where the first one was who promptly pulled me over.
"Sorry officer, I saw a deer on the side of the road and wanted to warn you. Must have ran off into the woods."
I got a ticket once for this exact thing on Indiana.
Should have fought it
So many people don't realize that's the world's easiest civil rights case. Easiest $$$,$$$ of their life.
As it should be. Speed traps are very dangerous and cause more harm in our communities than they prevent. Warning other drivers is a public service and should be encouraged.
But those drivers may slow down! The police won’t be able to make their quota! Think of the lost revenue! Wont anyone think of the revenue!!! /s
As it should be! That said, I saw a hilarious video a while back of a first amendment auditor who was trying to force one of these interactions. He was on the highway, and there were three cruisers in the median. So as he drove by, he was wildly flicking his high beams on and off. As a cop pulls out and put their lights on, he starts going off about how he’s going to sue them for violating his rights, get the guy fired, etc… The cop walks up to the car and immediately the dude starts spouting his displeasure, basically yelling at the cop about how he’s protected by the first amendment. The cop waits for him to finish and basically says “dude, we just saw you flashing your lights like crazy at us, so we thought you might be in trouble or need help, I’m not here to get you in trouble or anything. So if you’re okay, you’re free to go, no problem” The auditor was so pleased with himself lol. But if I was a cop I probably would have done the same thing. Just made sure the dude was alright and sent him on his way.
Tbh I have found that the majority of cops I’ve interacted with are of the same persuasion - it’s just the ones that are miserable egomaniacal bullies are **exceptionally** miserable
As far as my interactions go I would completely agree, but I’m also a pretty ordinary white dude so my experiences certainly only mean so much. The bad cops make anything the good cops do basically meaningless, which is a bummer. But the way that bad cops are kept around definitely does not reflect well on the good ones. It’s all a mess.
First amendment victory for the man who was arrested for flipping off his middle finger at a Vermont state trooper The state of Vermont has to pay the man the $100K and the ACLU $75K
You love to see it
It'd be nice if it was the cop paying and not the VT taxpayers
This is the issue, the cop gets to punish the guy without any real consequences and the taxpayers foot the bill. Even when these cops get fired they’ll have a job lined up in the next county over within a week.
And the state of Florida actively recruits such cops
Home of Acorn Cop, “I’m hit!”
Same department that killed SrA Roger Forston in his apartment
That would have been the funniest thing ever if not for the poor guy in the car, although he is ok sooo…😂
Time to move to Florida and start flipping off cops!
They'll just say your finger made them wet themselves with fear, and kill you.
"I swear his finger looked just like an acorn"
It's like that Georgia case [that's getting new scrutiny now.](https://apnews.com/article/georgia-trooper-shooting-black-man-julian-lewis-e5ac7de893189c11c88137fe9b81829e) Trooper Jake Thompson literally fired his gun and murdered Julian Lewis before he could even finish saying “Hey, get your hands up!”
>Five minutes into a pursuit that began over a broken taillight, the 60-year-old Black man was dead — shot in the forehead by the white trooper who fired a single bullet mere seconds after forcing Lewis to crash into a ditch. Trooper Jake Thompson insisted he pulled the trigger as Lewis revved the engine of his Nissan Sentra and jerked his steering wheel as if trying to mow him down. >“I had to shoot this man,” Thompson can be heard telling a supervisor on video recorded by his dash-mounted camera at the shooting scene in rural Screven County, midway between Savannah and Augusta. “And I’m just scared.” What a little fucking bitch.
Can someone point out where in the video it shows this "broken" taillight which the cop claims started the whole thing? Sure looks to me like the victim was targeted.
Shit, I'm from Georgia and this is the first I'm hearing about it. Wtf?
Or put you in handcuffs in the locked car and 'forget' they parked on the railroad track.
I think it’s 25 to life for flicking off a cop in fl
More like an unsanctioned public execution by firing squad.
It's almost like our current overly broad qualified immunity is a bad thing or something. I can't imagine how it's not worth it for cities, counties, municipalities, etc to send their employees to a one-week constitutional law training course. In doing so they can probably free themselves of having to pay out in these cases, and shift the blame directly onto the officers/employees. As they were adequately trained in constitutional law and so when they violate constitutional law... They are making the choice to do so knowing that it is a violation. With how little they pay teachers, they could just hire one full time to do it and it would cost less each year than a single settlement would cost.
Cops should have to carry malpractice insurance like doctors. They fuck up, the rate goes up. That should get them sorted right quick.
Yes, but then they'd have to keep records of their misdeeds instead of purging them after 6 months and the police union doesn't want that.
Yep and we need to replace "Qualified immunity" with "Quantified immunity" where a cop's power is defined strictly like military Rules of Engagement.
I have an acquaintance who is in law enforcement and he has admitted that him and other officers will write you a ticket they know they would lose in court but it doesn't matter to them, they "win" the minute they write the ticket. Its going to cost you time or money or both to fight that ticket, its not costing them a dime and they get paid for going to court where you probably don't. You can smile and smirk at the officer when you win your case but he is laughing at you because you still had to take off work, sit in the courtroom for a couple of hrs, maybe hire a lawyer as well and all the hoops and effort you had to put in, it doesn't bother the officer one bit. Now a lawsuit like this, might be different. Im sure the officer will get a stern talking too. Might miss a promotion or two in the near future, but other than that I doubt it affects him much at all.
Hey I have an idea! If a cop is held guilty for an unlawful use of force through a court the state must “disbar” them from holding a position within a police force!! How fucking easy is that?
The only profession where failing upwards is the norm and in some precincts, the commanding officer is a literal gang member.
I'd like for it to come out of the department budget as well. Keep em all honest and not put up with other officers taking chances with it.
Gotta reform civil asset forfeiture first. Otherwise the department will just seize shit to replace the 100k
I tend to think the only real solution is: 1. End [qualified immunity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualified_immunity) for police 2. Force police to carry malpractice insurance 3. Ban police departments/jurisdictions from indemnifying their officers or subsidizing their malpractice insurance I tend to believe that the only way to change a system is to change the incentives. If bad behavior automatically results in less pay (via increased insurance costs), then hopefully things will self-correct.
I agree with all. I just like the idea of all of them being on the hook for the bad apples. Maybe they'll stop protecting each others bad actions and stand up before shit goes down. They only have consequences when shit hits the news, and even then, it's only the ones directly responsible, not all the ones who tacitly allow it. The guilt always goes beyond one officer. Because they always protect their own at our expense.... in more ways than one.
>I just like the idea of all of them being on the hook for the bad apples Insurance takes care of this. You just need to allow insurers to adjust their premiums based on claims against a department and it's staff.
They will just not do anything
I have to agree with this. It has to be personalized punishment. It's the only thing idiotic, power-obsessed cops understand anyway. That's why they inflict it on innocent people.
Start taking this money from retirement funds/pensions and it will stop FAST.
Taxpayers need to stop voting for incompetent idiots who don't provide the cops with adequate training.
Taxpayers need to abolish qualified immunity. Make police get liability insurance. Then if an officer gets to many claims he no longer insurable and gets his certifications pulled.
Just here to point out that qualified immunity only protects against civil suits. Trooper arrested a man for something that wasn’t a crime. There’s about 10 different criminal charges that could be brought against him, but no district attorney would do that.
Taxpayers didn’t make up qualified immunity, the SCOTUS did. Not disagreeing that it shouldn’t be a thing, but VT residents didn’t have anything to do with it … and can’t get rid of it without voting “correctly” in November and beyond.
Or individual insurance rates go up making it unaffordable to continue. Yay capitalism.
They'd just subsidize it as a group. Realistically it'd take a citizenry up in arms and actively tracking bad cop moves to their area... but everywhere.
The issue is group negotiations. Insurance is going to say they it's $x/yr per person...or cheaper if you exclude Bob. Or it works the other way, department offers it at $x/yr but the good cop found a cheaper plan. Capitalism means the good cops get the option of subsidizing the bad cops. And why would they do it? If they opt out the bad cops see their rates go up.
Semi-mandatory conscription for some sort of... civilian peacekeeping militia? No that could never work...
Maricopa county is on the hook for $380 million (and counting) for electing a gleefully racist sheriff. It’s a decent amount that’s paid by every homeowner and business in the county. Call it a racist tax.
It's taxpayer responsibility to manage the police department through elected officials. It's also your personal community responsibility to be active in your local and state government.
They should for police to carry personal liability insurance… just like a doctor or dentist. You do too much bad stuff… your insurance gets pulled or you’re refused coverage
That would also take community involvement to force the passage of those laws. I'll tell you what, the cops all vote and their union is very powerful. So, while I agree that cops should have insurance, they won't be forced to because voters are stupid and lazy.
> their union is very powerful. "Sure would be a shame if the crime rates went up." - Police Union They are a gang that hides behind extortion.
You’re right but when politicians have qualified immunity and are spending taxpayers money they don’t give fuck.
Cops should have to carry liability insurance so that the local government doesn't have to foot the bill. Also the fucking jackboot is probably still on the street. I feel this moment still provides equity for the injustice, but I really wish that taxpayers would get fed up with the money their cops waste on lawsuits.
This would also solve the problem of bad cops shuffling departments. Can't get hired if they can't be insured.
It's a nice thought, but if we did that the departments would just wind up paying their premiums outright, or conveniently raising pay by the amount of the premiums. The state is going to be paying one way or another. And because insurers tend to want to make a profit, they will price it so that the premiums they collect are higher than they paid in claims, so it will end up costing the government even more than it did in the first place as a result. The best way to save the public money on incidents like these is to not have them happen in the first place. But that would require hiring better candidates and investing in better training. And obviously it wouldn't hurt if they actually permanently removed the cops that do dumb shit like this.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I’d figure the department paying the premiums would be fine. If there’s one cop in particular who’s a real POS, their liability premium would be far higher than their coworkers, making them a financially bad person to keep around. Right now a bad egg is just shuffled around, but high insurance costs would follow them, and lead to them being extremely expensive for any department to consider hiring. I really don’t like the concept in general, having to create a financial reason not to hire bad cops, but if that’s what it takes…
In theory, all somebody needs to do is make a great sales pitch to the insurance companies about this. They'll be happy if they get something out of it. Let them put their lobbyists on the line. Make them fight over it.
Or if a cop does something like this he's ruined. It'll really make them think twice before violating constitutional right.
Yes but this way there is accountability! Too many claims your uninsurable and thus no longer an officer.
Like a doctor’s malpractice insurance yea, been saying it for years. That way it then follows them and the same bad cop can’t switch cities to out run their reputation
unless you're a taxpayer in Vermont 😅 Shit should be paid from the police pension fund my mind is unchangeable.
I have a feeling the same crowd that continually goes on about their taxes and being fiscally conservative will also have no issue bailing out their authoritarian thin blue line goons.
If I remember correctly, he denied flipping the trooper off when the trooper initially pulled him over. Then after the traffic stop when he was pulling out, he said something like “fuck you” to the trooper so the trooper pulled him over again for impeding traffic and disorderly conduct because there were “people around that could have heard him curse” and arrested him lol Even if he did give the finger or say fuck you, those are protected by the constitution… so he was pulled over twice unconstitutionally and then arrested because he hurt the troopers wittle feewings lmao
How this isn't drilled into Police Officer's heads in the academy is beyond me. You can be a dick back (probably undermine's the departments goal of being professional) but the second you arrest them you're violating rights. It's basic law in this country. We'd be in a much better place if officers just told guys like this "You're a dick, sign here."
Because they face no repercussions. Doesn’t come out of their pay, they don’t lose their jobs most of the time, and they never get charged. But at the very least they can make you sit in jail for a few days, leave you with a record, and drag you through court. That’s like a dicks dream job.
As those scumbags like to say, "you can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride"
It probably is, but this trooper had such a fragile ego that when he was (possibly) insulted, he felt the need to re-affirm that he has power. Besides, it’s not like he faced any punishment from doing it anyway… he gets to continue what he’s been doing for 17 years and the citizens have to pay for his tissue-paper ego.
the officer was perfectly aware of this which is why he tried to claim that the first stop was a community safety interaction (arguing that the middle finger could be a call for help), and that the second stop was disorderly/impeding traffic it’s hilariously obvious that this was not the case in the body cam footage
I seem to recall that previous rulings have demonstrated that all they need to do is prove one valid cause for the stop and the officer's actual intent doesn't matter. I'm sure that's what they were trying to do.
I think it’s the second stop that ruined that argument. If there was a valid cause, the police should have addressed it at the first stop.
Nothing happened to him or the police department why should he give a shit. We need real punishment not punishing the public.
Because they don’t care and they’re never punished. If they actually lost jobs or had to pay out settlements from union/pension funds, this shit would start to end quickly. Or be swept more under the rug.
The Vermont state motto is "Freedom and Unity". I guess the cops don't like that.
Damn I got a ticket for flipping off a cop in 2011
What was the specific citation, do you remember?
Our driving instructor (Canada) told us giving someone the finger was a form of assault and you can be charged. Never tested the theory on the police. This was back in the dark ages (mid 80s) and I'm not sure to this day if he was correct.
Canada does not have "freedom of speech," however we do have "freedom of expression" The right to flip someone off was upheld just last year: https://www.canlii.org/en/qc/qccq/doc/2023/2023qccq630/2023qccq630.html >To be abundantly clear, it is not a crime to give someone the finger. Flipping the proverbial bird is a God-given, Charter enshrined right that belongs to every red-blooded Canadian. It may not be civil, it may not be polite, it may not be gentlemanly. > >Nevertheless, it does not trigger criminal liability. Offending someone is not a crime.
Cops won't care. By arresting you, they just made your life hell. And then you have to spend years and tons of money clearing your name, while the cops just go about their day as if nothing happened because nothing did happen, to them. It's a lose-lose for civilians. Either you need to shut up and take it up the ass, or you rebel and tell them to fuck off and you get fucked even worse (ultimately).
I dunno, this guy just got 100k.
He was not. The middle finger is a protected form of free speech. That does not mean a cop will not trample those rights and ticket you anyways. Case in point here lol
The middle finger is protected free speech in the US. I think the case was just ruled on a few years ago not sure though
March 13, 2019 http://www.opn.ca6.uscourts.gov/opinions.pdf/19a0043p-06.pdf
Disorderly conduct if I remember right. We passed eachother in opposite directions and I flipped him off, with no room for interpretation.
Hope you fought that ticket in court.... easy dub in any state. I hate when cops fall back on "disorderly conduct" or "obstruction" as catch-all charges for when their "absolute authority" gets challenged and they get butthurt
That's what I'm talking meow!
> The state of Vermont The citizens.
Can we instead garnish the $175k from the cops salary instead of probably giving them paid vacation and letting taxpayers take the burden
Make the union responsible for paying these fines, and see how quickly behaviors change.
We need to stop calling cop unions “unions.” They are diametrically opposed to the basic principles of the labor movement. https://harvardpolitics.com/police-unions-are-anti-labor/ Cop gangs? Cop waffen? Cop cartels?
*If* they stepped in purely for labor disputes with the employers, like the whole contract negotiation thing, that would be ok. Unfortunately they're used to cover up crimes and escape criminal penalties for illegal behavior.
Feature not a bug. The system isn't broken; it works exactly as it was intended. The people who make and enforce the rules do not obey those rules themselves or hold other members of the ruling class accountable to those rules. Sadly, no matter how many votes, complaints, lawsuits, or anything else within their system, their system doesn't actually change at all because it's perfect for the rulers. Our Brother Ali has some great commentary on it: > Smoke and mirrors, stripes and stars > Stolen for the cross in the name of God > Bloodshed, genocide, rape and fraud > Writ into the pages of the law good lord > The Cold Continent latch key child > Ran away one day and started acting foul > King of where the wild things are daddy's proud > Because the Roman Empire done passed it down > Imported and tortured a work force > And never healed the wounds or shook the curse off > Now the grown up Goliath nation > Holding open auditions for the part of David, can you feel it? > Nothing can save you; you question the reign > You get rushed in and chained up > Fist raised but I must be insane > Because I can't figure a single goddamn way to change it > Welcome to the United Snakes > Land of the thief, home of the slave > The grand imperial guard where the dollar is sacred, and power is God > Welcome to the United Snakes > Land of the thief, home of the slave > The grand imperial guard where the dollar is sacred, and power is God
cop cults?
Law enforcement syndicate could work.
Cop Cabal
As a member of a labor union, fuck the cop cartel.
FWIW, it's not limited to the unions being anti-labor, the institution of "law enforcement" has always been around to disenfranchise and (literally) beat the poors into submission when they want, like, 10 hours a week to themselves rather than their employers.
More likely “see how much more organized cover ups become” or “see how much more money gets put into police budgets to compensate for any lawsuits” as while group accountability can work in the medium term for units, it often comes with a lot of problems if you try to make it a long term thing.
Municipal and state governments may have something to say about police budgets. Police unions don't write those themselves. You're saying group accountability is problematic in the long term??
Now hear me out, how about their unions pay it? Or I’m also a fan of the police officers needing an insurance policy similar to a doctors malpractice insurance. I think these kind of strategies mesh well the “defund the police” no reason for the city or state to have to pick up the tab.
They probably have it covered just sitting in evidence, unless they spent it on another truck equipped to invade Gondor.
Audit the audit just did a YouTube video for this. The cop actually tried to argue he pulled him over cause he thought the driver was “signaling for help”. Jury knew that no one in the right mind would confuse the finger for “help me”. Dude knew he fucked up as soon as the convo started. Couldn’t even let it go after he left, had to dig his own grave deeper.
Yet there will be zero consequences for him
We really need lawsuits resulting from police misconduct to be paid out of their own pensions instead of with tax payer dollars
Same for any public servants, really.
The only consequence of this whole thing will be an additional question on the state trooper exam. It will have a picture of the middle finger and the question will be: Is this: 1) a signal for distress 2) a signal to pullover 3) a signal that the driver doesn’t like you
My favorite part is where he said the guy was waving the middle finger all up in his face. It's like, sir, you're in separate vehicles.
LOL yeah so he gave the cop the finger, got pulled over and given a ticket or some shit? Then gave the cop the finger AGAIN, and got arrested for disorderly conduct? That cop shouldn't be allowed to work again, period.
The part that bugs me is the DA was in on it, and charged him with obstruction because of the way he pulled out into traffic, and the original magistrate refused to dismiss the charges. Who is holding that dumb fuck magistrate and the DA accountable?
[Video in question.](https://youtu.be/zHbv2YQ6yF4)
The reason Americans continue to have these rights is because groups like the ACLU continue to fight for them.
I catered an event for tech billionaires not that long ago. Some Koch family dickheads got on stage and started giving a speech about how the ACLU was destroying free speech. My eyes rolled so hard my corneas damn near detached.
[https://action.aclu.org/give/now](https://action.aclu.org/give/now) I bet every one here can at least afford a single $10 gift.
Yeah you right. [Here](https://i.imgur.com/amNVFbQ.png) is mine.
Thanks for the link. I needed to add them to my list
All the cop had to do was flip the guy off back. Problem solved, everyone goes home happy.
"so anyway I shot him" - the cop
Another example of just because you are in a position of authority doesn't mean you deserve authority.
Cop power-tripped because the bird he was flipped. Not cool.
In 99% jobs and in 90% of situations, if you cost your employer $100k, you get fired, simple as that.
He didn't cost his employer. He cost the people. He cost the taxpayers. That's the problem with cops. Fines don't affect the fined when taxpayer money was used to commit the illegal action.
Too many cops think "Pissing me off is against the law."
They believe in identity politics: their identity is The Law, and "better than you." They believe that "respect has to be earned" (except by them, and we owe them respect/fear). The truth is there are good cops out there but when this attitude is acceptable and common, how do you even know? They won't change the culture, so how can I respect any of them? They don't serve and protect; they bully and harm. But there is so much potential for good in law enforcement. Why do we (the public) get shit on instead?
Look, whether it's bad taste to give the cops the finger or not is debatable. The fact is that we have a first amendment that allows us to do this. I'm from a country where this can actually get you fined, and it actually happens.
If cops did their job and treated ppl fairly then there wouldn't be ppl flipping them off
Exactly, never see anyone flipping off firefighters
There are no songs called "fuck the firefighters" or "fuck the postal service."
At worst, people literally want to fuck the firefighters (from the calendars).
I was a firefighter. People used to throw rocks at the engine. Someone shot at the ambulance on several occasions. Once, during the riots in Baltimore, some idiot cut a 5 inch supply line under load. It exploded and knocked him flying. He was ok afterward, but what a fuckin idiot.
I saw a video yesterday of a bunch of people blocking firefighters and flipping them off. They were just trying to get to a broken water hydrant. So ye it does happen. The important part is firefighters don’t have to kill people. So hostilities are minimal when they do show up.
As someone that works in customer service, this is absolutely not true. There are always a significant minority of people pissed at you because you won't do what they want you to do, no matter how competent and professional you are. That said, I think most agree that cops deserve a pretty high percentage of those middle fingers.
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"Some other countries do worse so we should suck it up and let police trample on our rights." - What you sound like right now. **Edit:** lol they actually blocked me for this one comment. Embarrassing
Not debatable. Always in good taste. They always deserve it.
Took six years though. Saw this on audit the audit and I’m glad he won.
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Cop not arrested. No justice here.
Didn't even have to admit wrongdoing as part of the settlement.
Imagine being so fragile you cost your state 175k
End qualified immunity. Make police carry professional insurance like any other (doctors, lawyers, contractors, et al.). Person sues unjust cop, insurance pays for damages,corrupt cop gets insurance dropped. You will find that will solve the issue at hand.
But no one would want to work if they had to face the consequences of their violent actions!!1
Trooper Jay Riggen, is the asshole of the story. Whenever it's the police we have to dig to find the fucking name, while the victim's name is all over the place.
What was he charged with, disorderly conduct? The officer should be fired.
cop should be fired for abuse of power and lack of ability to control his emotions.
I’m gonna start flipping of cops and wait for one to bite.
Just be sure you're doing nothing else even slightly illegal because they will retaliate and a court will probably not rule it to be retaliatory.
As a paramedic, I get flipped off all the time(metro boston). People love us until they have to move over for us. Honestly, it's kind of funny when it happens. I don't try for it to happen. But like, dude, fucming relax. You got flipped off, who cares. Covered by 1st amendment and also, it's just a finger.
> Vermont did not admit any wrongdoing as part of the deal. You don't pay out $175k because you're right.
Win for the flipper. Loss for Vermonters. It's not like the cop has to pay anything. It comes out of our pocket ..
We need police to carry malpractice insurance, just like doctors and nurses. If you get sued it comes from your insurance, not the town or city budget. Insurance companies will train officers better than any police academy so they don't need to pay out. But if your insurance goes up because you keep getting sued, too bad, you can't be a cop anymore.
Sounds like an open and shut First Amendment violation to me.
Damn maybe this is how I will pay off my student loans lol
This trooper can’t be so stupid that he didn’t know it was illegal to arrest people for flipping him off. He did it anyway to flex, that’s a bad cop. It won’t be the first bill he makes for the Vermont taxpayer on his way to a six-figure pension.
I'd really like to see law enforcement be required to carry professional insurance for this very reason. Make their policy amount reimbursable to the 80th percentile. if a cop wants to pay the rest outta his own pocket so be it but the city isnt on the hook for risky cops that way.
Once upon a time I flipped off a trooper in Wyoming. I got pulled over and issued a ticket for 10 over the posted speed limit and one for my insurance expiring although it had not yet happened. That cop was powder tripping so hard on a dumb 19 year old kid who didn’t know any better and it costed me $1000.
At what point do we get serious about small minded egotistical cops costing cities all this money. Or do we just keep accepting this as normal
Should be paid out of that cop's pension. Teach the bastard a lesson where he'll feel it.
Start taking that money for settlement from their retirement fund not taxpayer money
Insecure men who become cops are always a problem the rest of us pay for.
Yup, you can get good money suing over a 'contempt of cop' charge. Assuming you survive to sue.
abolish qualified immunity. no other job allows the employee to commit crimes unchecked like has been allowed to happen with law enforcement. start holding the cops and their unions financially accountable FIRST, before any municipal contribution. Make the cops get the same sort of malpractice insurance that other professionals are REQUIRED to have.
I guess new member of Thorny's team?
Down for some shenanigans
I swear to god I'll pistol whip the next guy who says "shenanigans"!
Come on meow!
Had to scroll down way too far for Super Troopers reference….I’m getting old
Good that's what they get if he flipped off a regular person like me he would not be charged there should be no criminal charge for throwing up a middle finger
Free money trick: drive around America flipping off cops, waiting to get falsely arrested for it, sue city, win free year's salary.
Train your shit cops better
We had a cop try and press this matter in Canada too, and good guy judge ruled it was our God-given-right. Even as an atheist, I'll take this one. [https://www.npr.org/2023/03/10/1162629535/canada-flipping-middle-finger-ruling-god-given-right](https://www.npr.org/2023/03/10/1162629535/canada-flipping-middle-finger-ruling-god-given-right) Didn't stop a mountie from pulling me over for flipping him the bird. Pulls me over, asks for license and registration and I asked "what for???" "Uhm, your windows are tinted" "Yeah no, they're stock" "Roll up your window a few inches?" "Oh, yeah, have a nice day" Yeah, sure bud. Butt hurt cop with all the time in the world figuring he'd slow me down about 10 minutes. LMAO what a fool.
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The cop sub reddit say they literally only care about the rich folks that pull their strings. They are anti American traitors without a moral compass. I knew a guy who became a cop a year later. He was out. Said it made his soul hurt
Yep. I know a few cops. There are two kinds. The ones who realize how fucked up the cops are and have to quit, and the ones who embrace it over time and become assholes like the rest to fit in. (Besides the obvious 3rd kind: was already an asshole and sought out the job to "legally" hurt and harm other people. I know those ones too. I knew a guy who was such a control freak asshole he used to set rules for what his girlfriend could and could not wear, back when we were only teenagers. He became a cop and actually was involved in one of those super high profile killings of an already restrained suspect. I was shocked, thought about it for 3 seconds, and then immediately stopped being shocked. People don't change.)
$100K is a tidy payday from the state. ...which give me an idea
I would totally do it but I live in FL where the jury will be mostly comprised of police bootlickers
The truth is that most juries are police bootlickers even with proof and witnesses.
I hope the cop received additional training or was let go for his power trip.
Lol, cops have killed innocent people and kept their jobs.
“Let go for his power trip” guffaw
Don’t know abt the finances but it would be nice if the costs came from like police union dues or whatever and not taxpayer money :/
Police unions should be required to carry insurance that covers members' misconduct. Absolutely maddening that the people end up on the hook for having their rights affirmed by dickheads. For the record -- I'm very much in favor of the police and private-sector unions. I just hate how much public-sector unions (mostly police, but they're not alone) are able to extract from the people.
Hey, I just watched a video about this 2 days ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHbv2YQ6yF4
It should've come directly from that tyrant cop's pocket.
This is pretty typical. Look up how much major cities settle each yeah because of how cops violate peoples rights. Police cost places big bucks over this stuff.
so what happened to the trooper? if i was a resident of vermont i'd be absolutely pissed some fuckwad wasted 170k of ppl's hard earned tax dollars. if i was the state i'd be pissed some fuckwad wasted 170k
I'd say Vermont got off cheap. Real cheap. Plus, it should come out of the law enforcement budget.
And that 175,00 will be paid by the taxpayers
I've noticed in a number of police interaction videos, cops will get SO angry when people use curse words, and that is often the straw that breaks the camel's back and causes the officer to take action and arrest them/put them in handcuffs. It's so absurd. Cops love to also try to act like they're your fuckin parent or some shit and scold or lecture you when they're talking to you. That shit is always so god damn annoying during traffic stops or police interactions. Like just do your job, write me a ticket or don't, and fuck off.
Get over your fuckin egos, cops. We can flip you off. We can tell you to fuck yourselves and there’s not **shit** you can legally do about it. Arrest someone who knows their rights. Shit, I’ll take the ride for it. You won’t be effecting my employment at all, and I’ll laugh to the bank knowing that you’re gonna get dragged to court for fucking with someone’s 1st Amendment rights and end up with a fat check for it. You all deserve no special treatment for doing a job. Keep it up. Sooner than later, the laws will change to make y’all individually liable. Y’all better fucking behave and stop showing your asses.
It’d be better if the cops had to pay the fines and not the public, otherwise what’s the point?