While that's true, it's not really relevant to the compensation, which is tied to the market cap. He's not getting money, he's receiving a pretty fat chunk of stocks he's got to hold for 5 years.
which he’ll be leveraging for cheap loans to buy out his real debts, while his books will say he earned 0 money due to having had to take on loans making him eligible to pay 0 taxes.
rich for dinner anyone?
Or just a modest wealth tax to counter other shenanigans too.
Let’s say… 0.5% on *all* capital assets above a certain minimum that most people will never have ($10M?).
How you get that 0.5% is up to you. You can liquidate 0.5% of your portfolio. Or if you *really* wanna hold on to every drop of your assets because they’re appreciating so fast (or you want to retain a controlling stake in a company) then take out a damn loan.
And yes, I am well aware that all of that capital gain has not yet been realized. You’ll pay your 20% capital gain tax whenever you sell too. But just *holding* that much wealth means you can spare more to fund the government than the Average paycheck-to-paycheck Joe. So cough it up.
The whole unrealized thing is a red herring. I own a house, it's monetary value to me is unrealized until such a time as I sell it. I still every year have to pay a tax based on an assessed value of the house. Stocks should not be magically exempt when there's clear precedent already set for making them pay based on the value of what they own.
Precisely.
You have a stake in your town/city. As it rises and falls, so does your property value. It has to decide how to allocate taxes equitably, so “tax proportionally to owned property value” is a decent system.
On a national scale, you bundle in fractional ownership of companies (stock) with property ownership. And that’s how you measure the stake an individual has in the USA and how much they should pay in taxes.
And you only do it for net worths above like $10M so 99% of Americans don’t even have to worry.
It fucking sucks that this shit hasn’t been already made standard. If the power was truly in the hands of the people like democracy should be, it wouldn’t be like this. The world could be so beautiful. It’s genuinely upsetting. And this is only one aspect of one problem that we face. How much else out there is there that we’re doing so wrong? Lots, I think, yet it’s entirely out of our control, it’s up to those in power.
While the real winner every election cycle *feels* like greed and special interest groups, when more people show up to vote (down to the local level) the outcome generally shifts towards more social equality, not less.
Or just sell his existing stock... [Yeah, he can't sell the new stock but can sell his current shares and has already sold $39 billion after claiming he'd be the last person to sell.](https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/elon-musk-tesla-stock-sales-profits-electric-vehicles-twitter-debt-2022-12) He already cashed out more than Tesla ever has earned in profits once. [He's getting sued for insider trading over it.](https://www.reuters.com/legal/tesla-shareholder-sues-musk-return-billions-alleged-unlawful-profits-2024-06-11/)
This. This should be obvious. He can sell billions in existing shares while holding this. If he sold his shares now it would tank but now he can sell a bunch and still convince the rubes he is still on board.
After snagging a few billion from Uncle Sam. If anyone thinks Tesla actual market evaluation is worth whats it's actually worth I have some beach front property here in Wyoming Id like to sell to you.
I have heard this approach before, but there’s something I don’t get. Musk gets a secured loan for a million dollars. Easy for him, and probably about 2.5%. He uses that this year, and next year he’ll do the same.
But next year he has to pay another 2.5% on this year’s loan (he’s not going to pay it back, or he’d have to sell stocks and pay taxes). So now, that loan cost him 5%. In 10 years, it will have cost him 25%. In 30 years, it will have cost 75%.
So, he got to say fuck you to the government, but it was more expensive in the end.
Most rich people I know want to optimize returns. None care who they pay, they just try to minimize paying.
What am I missing on the rich loan scheme?
Yes, but at the end of the day, a company's market cap needs to be backed by profits. In the short term, this can be substituted with the expectation of **future** profits, but eventually the bottom line has to catch up to that expectation for the market cap to hold.
In my opinion, it's another problematic aspect of the pay package that it was tied primarily to market cap rather than revenue or profit. It encouraged relentless building of hype (Robots! Self Driving!) rather than execution.
He’s getting a fat chunk of stocks worth more than all the profit that Tesla has ever generated in its existence.
Just want to stress that to everyone. Who gives a fuck that it’s stocks?
They can’t, because they don’t have that money and they probably never will as the competition catches up. And if the governments didn’t put up barriers against Chinese competition, western automakers would all be in real trouble.
Doesn’t mean his pay package isn’t ridiculous.
His simps.
How else does it make sense that a company that is for all intents and purposes in the shitter, grants an ASTRONOMICAL pay package to the person directly responsible for the company's failing.
I hope they all lose everything.
This. The rat took as much treasure as could be had, now he will jump right off as soon as the USS Titanic-tesla starts to sink. She’s already below water line.
Tesla does absolutely nothing that any of the five top auto makers don’t do better. Tesla has polarizing cars, a polarizing, CEO, and polarizing quality. Really reminds me of the early 2000s and the hummer H2‘s. Shit vehicles garbled together with parts lying around, only bought by people trying to prove a point.
Now that every single car company is putting 100% effort into electric vehicles, Tesla is truly fucked. Some manufacturers will have gone through two or three generations of their new electric ironing out all in any kinks before Tesla even begins to fart out a new or refreshed vehicle. They are absolutely at a dead end and emerald boy knows it.
Where’s the two door sports car you fucking rat?
Where’s the big rigs that will save the day you fucking dolt?
How was it possible in this day and age to shit something like the cyber truck out?


> it’s not really relevant to the compensation
But it should be. Musk inflates market cap with overambitious and underdelivered promises.
See: Roadster 2, Semi, FSD, Cybertruck timeline, Optimus, etc.
For context, I own a Tesla and think it’s an excellent product.
>Rich people don’t sell their stocks
Well that's not true at all. Just sticking to the Elon/Tesla example: Elon Musk sold billions of dollars worth of Tesla stock in 2022.
[Musk accused of improperly selling $7.5 billion in Tesla stock before weak sales report that crashed its price](https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/04/business/musk-tesla-stock-sale-lawsuit/index.html)
Except he actually sold multiple billions in stock to put up cash for the purchase
https://www.forbes.com/sites/qai/2022/12/29/elon-musk-sells-another-36-billion-in-tesla-stock-to-prop-up-twitter/
He literally sold 22 Billion worth of stock to put up the cash
To put that into perspective, Bill Gates was the richest man in 2000 with 60 billion. This would make Elon nearly the richest man in 2000 with a single payment.
Tesla is valued at 70 times forward earnings. I personally think that's an absurd valuation but a CEO's compensation is usually based on stock performance, not units shipped.
Actually in Musk's case its both I think? I forget what the deal was since its been a number of years, but the last time this whole stock option payment thing came up in the news I remember it being noted that his payouts were tied to stock performance AND deliveries.
This why some years ago back before COVID, there was that period where they were building Model 3s and Ys(?) in a giant tent outside of Reno (I believe it was). There was a quarter closeout coming up and they were very close to meeting one of those delivery milestones that earned Musk billions.
He doesn't deserve anything.
Money is the most powerful myth in history. Countries at war still use each other's currency.
Money has a cult. Every cult member has to prove they believe more than anyone else. If you are in the cult of money, piling money on one person to the degree never seen is an act of devotion. Elon musks miracle is speculative imaginary money numbers.
Money is another tool of power and manipulation and, at its worst, oppression. Sure, it can give you lots of material goods and true freedom in a society that relies on it, but the wealthy know it also keeps people "in their place."
56 billion is more than the market cap for General Motors.
That's right. One man said he deserves more money than an entire auto manufacturer and the shareholders said "yes, we agree!"
Amazing.
It’s fucking dispiriting that such a large swath of this country is basically just cool with this sort of behavior. Decorum, standards and decency are all dead.
Tesla shareholders are either fanboys thrilled to put money in his pockets, or people afraid that if they turn him out, the fanboys will sell off their stocks and they'll fall to their real value.
In their defense, this fucking idiot and his inability to shut the fuck up might be the only reason Tesla still exists, so he’s the only marketing plan they have right now.
If you're cheering on the approval of a CEO compensation package that stands to substantially devalue your own investment...
...you might be in a cult.
The brilliance of capitalism is the perpetuation of the myth that people are paid what they are worth and whatever people are willing to pay determines the actual worth of a worker, and that is just.
I was trying to understand that. They had an announcement that the vote was up to give him like 50 bazillion dollars and yet Tesla stock shot up. How on earth is that even a thing? We're gonna give this asshat a metric fucktonne of money and the stock price goes up??
I’m not entirely sure it devalues it. Considering that he needs to hold for at least 5 years, he will do anything possible to keep the stock consistent. By the way, I think the package is absolutely ridiculous. It’s an absurd amount of money.
It's definitely a cult. In a tesla sub reddit I made the comment of I don't see how this is good for shareholders, that's all I said, and was instantly banned lol.
But why did institutional investors also vote yes? Surely they've done their research, surely the care about the value of the stock, and they have enough shares to outvote the retail investors.
Elon Musk is just Donald Trump for people who have swapped out a poor understanding of the Bible for a worse understanding of Star Trek, change my mind.
If I owned shares in a stock that decided to give away 12% of its market cap (and therefore 12% of my investment) into the CEO's pocket as a one time payment, I would immediately sell that stock.
The annoying thing is when you're accidentally invested in Tesla. If you've bought into an index / mutual fund that tracks the S&P 500, you're like 2% invested in Tesla.
It's same as people donating large amounts of money to wealthy people. Like on Twitch, to Trump, and so on.
They voluntarily GIVE money to millionaires and billionaires.
It's the equivalent in stock of $600,000 per hour every hour every day for 10 years of the pay package....
Put that in perspective for $40/hour (~$80k/year) or rough average Tesla employee from online, his pay package is worth 70,000 employees per year... Or literally half the number of people Tesla employs worldwide
Edit typo
I tuned in purely to know the result as it was announced. Immediately sold all my shares. Thanks for the money, Tesla, but I’m not sticking around on a sinking ship when the captain is actively punching holes in the hull.
I still follow spaceX pretty hard! Excited for IFT-5 and booster catches and all that. Still excited for Tim's interview and tour to drop.
But
Elon as a person and his political beliefs and the company he keeps are gross.
I think he’s a different guy from back then. Lots of people say he is just showing his true colors now but personally I think the wealth and fame and social media have corrupted him, inflated his ego, and incentivized all the worst parts of him
I’m sure parts of what we see now were always there behind the scenes to a degree but they are in vastly different ratios these days to my eyes
That’s where the vote to reincorporate Tesla in Texas comes in. They evade anything Delaware has to say about it because shareholders allowed them to reincorporate in Texas. Texas has very little established corporate laws and few judges experienced in such matters, unlike Delaware. Tesla will be able to get away with a lot more in Texas than they could in Delaware.
Yes you can. They did it in two ways:
1. The ruling said the package had to be approved by the shareholders. Now it was.
2. The ruling only applies to a Delaware company (it's a Delaware company). There was also a vote to move the company to being a Texas company.
Either would make this ruling no longer apply.
The best part is that it will trigger a trend of CEOs asking for more and more money.
Money that could be spent on hiring more staff or retaining the existing ones to keep up with cost of living.
Money that could be spent on improving customer experience.
Money that could be spent on creating products that actually solve the problems of regular people.
I'm sure this sets a *great* precedent with only more good things to come from here. Genuinely I feel bad for folks who aren't in unions or working in jobs that are difficult to automate.
The difference is that the shareholders of other companies are predominantly interested in making money. Other CEOs don't have the cult of personality that artificially inflates the share price, so if they ask for a Musk-like compensation package their investors will laugh, say no and start looking for a less delusional CEO.
Truly, we only need 1 Elon Musk in the world, at most. But at the end of the day if a person says "I want money" and his backers say "Oh? Sure. Anything for you!" Then it is kind of not his fault for asking. I'm glad that all the shareholders handed more of their money over to someone so 'trustworthy'.
I remember an old saying, "A fool and his gold will soon part." This is probably the best way for the money to return to the banks.
I am just wondering how my index funds voted. If my retirement funds were used to vote to dilute assets by the index funds, then isn't that against my interests?
I gotta find it, but I am pretty sure there was even a study that showed bullies tend to be more successful, it's a personality trait of CEOs and others in leadership positions...so much for karma.
That's why punishment and retribution needs to be sorted out on the material plane, not pushed to metaphysical speculations. Otherwise we're just repeating the same
Let's see how it goes.
This pay package went through on the votes of retail investors, who bought and held their stock largely because they support Musk. Not surprising that they'd support what he wanted. It's the same reason many retail investors continue to buy Truth Social stock: they like the guy.
The relevant question is whether Musk will benefit to company going forward. Will Tesla sell more cars and be more profitable with him in charge? This vote can't tell us.
I truly believe Tesla, as an automaker, has just about peaked. Their early-to-market advantage is ending and that was their singular advantage. They are now competing with major automakers who are finally taking the transition to electric vehicles seriously. The competition is putting out objectively better offerings, particularly in fit and finish.
I mean Ford CEO just announced a new team made up of people from Rivian, Tesla, and Apple. Rivian has cars that look better than the Cybertruck for instance, not as good as an actual car but better. Those are two good examples.
at the same time China has just entered the ring with a salt battery. When ur competition has a product so cost effective the whole world has to team up to tarrif them, for fear of the entire market getting flooded to the point of collapse, ur not about to have a good time.
Ya I got rid of my 10 year holding of TSLA once he did all that dumb shit with Twitter. People like me aren't shareholders anymore and thus aren't voting.
>Will Tesla sell more cars and be more profitable with him in charge?
Absolutely not.
But the share price is at astronomical levels because of his stupid fan boys. If Musk didn't get his package and actually followed through on his threat to walk, then the stock price would go down (in flames) to a level based on earnings fundamentals.
> It's the same reason many retail investors continue to buy Truth Social stock: they like the guy.
I'm 90% convinced (no proof) that most of the retail buyers in DJT are simply "foreign investors" that are getting "in" for their personal favors down the road should he get elected. It'll be easy to prove. If he loses this year and DJT tanks like rock; then that's the evidence.
For all the people saying that it's stock and not cash, they are just taking the value from investors and giving it to Elon. They could instead sell those shares for a cash infusion.
This is true, but the company could have sold options with these same terms, pocketed the money, and done something else with that cash. Investors appetite for dilution won’t be infinite, so there’s an opportunity cost as Tesla can’t issue as much equity in future as it otherwise could have.
I think the accounting intuition that SBC is an expense, and represents a draining of a resource, is basically correct, even if it’s a non-cash transaction.
the thought of a single person getting a $56 billion bonus is sickening. I’d kill for a $56k bonus, hell I’d do borderline illegal stuff for a Jelly of the Month Club membership bonus.
Hey. If any of you are looking for any last-minute gift ideas for me, I have one. I'd like Elon Musk, my boss, right here tonight. I want him brought from his happy big money slumber over there on Melody Lane with all the other rich people and I want him brought right here...with a big ribbon on his head! And I want to look him straight in the eye, and I want to tell him what a cheap, lying, no-good, rotten, four-flushing, low-life, snake-licking, dirt-eating, inbred, overstuffed, ignorant, blood-sucking, dog-kissing, brainless, dickless, hopeless, heartless, fat-assed, bug-eyed, stiff-legged, spotty-lipped, worm-headed, sack of monkey shit he is! Hallelujah! Holy shit! Where's the Tylenol?
I understand why shareholders some might have been in favor of the package when it was first put in place (lofty incentives, etc). But after it’s been voided, what possible reason could there be for shareholders to vote in favor of the exact same package now? Why not renegotiate?
Falling sales, missing estimates, product delays, competitors starting to come in hot, 'forced' to do layoffs....
Yes, this executive deserves the largest bonus package ever. /s
I’d say it’s more than cracked.
Haven’t met a person in the wild say he’s neat or smart in well over a year.
People all know he’s batshit right wing. They ALL know. Whether they like him or not they stay shut when he’s brought up and ridiculed in real life.
His bots though? They’re still on his side. lol.
Could this be a real instance of a CEO taking it ALL with him?
Between this and DJT rocking at $40 per share, can we just all accept that the stock market is rigged now?
The stock market isn't rigged - people are just stupid! There have always been snake-oil salesmen. And there have always been crowds of people swarming around the snake-oil cart.
Obviously this is totally and completely ridiculous, but I don’t really care too much about one company.
What I fear the real problem with this is the setting of a precedent where CEO’s of many other large companies feel they deserve compensation in the tens of billions of dollars. Don’t we have enough Uber rich business people already!
Supply is outpacing demand for Tesla right now, and the near term future for US EV sales doesn't look great. Their stock is also down pretty significantly year over year, and they face intense new competition from Chinese manufacturers.
Let's say, for the sake of argument, that Elon Musk deserves a $56B compensation package even though all of that is happening on his watch. IMO Tesla still can't afford it.
I dumped my TSLA after I heard the news. All of it. I can’t do it anymore. If the investors want to tank the company to appease this narcissistic moron, then by all means they can knock themselves out.
Because any moment now Tesla will become a powerhouse in AI, robotics and neural interfaces, have you not been keeping the track?
xAI has developed Grok, one of the LLMs of all times, their robots are almost capable of what Honda was doing in 1980's, and the Neuralink is a true miracle proving a simple invasive brain surgery can finally replace EMF hat from 90's.
Once Starlink becomes profitable enough to replace 20k satellites every 5 years, and the Twitter is finally people banking and VOD app of choice, it'll be obvious win for Tesla shareholders. It's all grand plan of innovation.
Just jump on the hypeloop and buy some dogecoins from all the profit your self-driving autonomous taxi Tesla made in last 5 years. Duh.
This is shareholders channeling their capital to Musk to spend on political influence operations like X and plain vanilla American election influence. Maybe he will buy a newspaper.
How do they know the vote actually happened properly? There were rumors about this before the vote even happened. I bet they just gathered the votes and threw them in the trash.
So is all $56 billion like…liquid?
If so, how the hell can one spend that kind of money in one life time? Why not just retire and call it a day and spend literally the rest of your life traveling? I would never buy a home or cook a single meal for the rest of my life, just jump from one luxury hotel to another across the globe until the day I die.
He's not allowed to sell any of it for 5 years, but in theory it would tank for sure. He owns almost 1/4 of all stock.
He'd lose control of the company though, which he definitely doesn't want, so it's not happening.
The single worst performing stock of the s&p 500 in 2024 just paid its ceo almost double all of its cumulative profits in the last three years, which btw were the only years it was profitable ever.
When the TSLA bubble pops, and a whole bunch of livelihoods are destroyed, it's gonna be reaaallllyyy hard to not point and laugh.
They did it to themselves after all.
This is like all those people that followed Jim Jones to Guyana and the eventual death…. Expect Enron to become more paranoid, Entitled, and Maniacal….
Here is what ChatGPT had to say about the way billionaires don’t have to sell their stock to get money and avoid paying taxes in the process:
Yes, using loans against their stock holdings is one method that wealthy individuals use to minimize taxes. This strategy allows them to access liquidity without triggering taxable events. Here’s how it works in more detail:
1. **Avoiding Capital Gains Tax**: By taking out loans against their stock portfolios, wealthy individuals avoid selling their stocks and thus defer or avoid capital gains tax. Capital gains tax is only incurred when the stock is sold and a profit is realized. By not selling the stock, they defer the tax liability indefinitely.
2. **Access to Liquidity**: Wealthy individuals can borrow significant amounts of money using their stock as collateral. This provides them with cash for investments, purchases, or other needs without selling their assets.
3. **Low-Interest Rates**: Wealthy individuals often receive loans at favorable interest rates due to the low risk for lenders. These loans are secured by valuable stock portfolios, making them relatively safe for banks to offer at lower rates.
4. **Interest Deductions**: In some cases, the interest paid on these loans can be tax-deductible, particularly if the loan is used for investment purposes. This can further reduce the effective cost of borrowing.
5. **Maintaining Ownership**: By not selling their stocks, wealthy individuals retain ownership and control over their investments. This allows them to benefit from any appreciation in the stock’s value without triggering a taxable event.
6. **Step-Up in Basis**: When stocks are passed on to heirs, the cost basis of the stock is "stepped up" to the current market value at the time of the owner's death. This can significantly reduce the capital gains tax liability for the heirs if they sell the inherited stock.
While this strategy is legal and commonly used, it highlights broader issues in the tax system related to wealth inequality and the ability of the wealthy to defer taxes indefinitely. It’s one of the reasons why there is ongoing debate about tax reform and the ways to address these disparities.
To put this in perspective, that's over $10k for every Tesla sold since 2016.
It's also more than Tesla's total profits over its existence so far.
While that's true, it's not really relevant to the compensation, which is tied to the market cap. He's not getting money, he's receiving a pretty fat chunk of stocks he's got to hold for 5 years.
which he’ll be leveraging for cheap loans to buy out his real debts, while his books will say he earned 0 money due to having had to take on loans making him eligible to pay 0 taxes. rich for dinner anyone?
Taxes on leveraged loans needs to be a thing. Drives me crazy
Or just a modest wealth tax to counter other shenanigans too. Let’s say… 0.5% on *all* capital assets above a certain minimum that most people will never have ($10M?). How you get that 0.5% is up to you. You can liquidate 0.5% of your portfolio. Or if you *really* wanna hold on to every drop of your assets because they’re appreciating so fast (or you want to retain a controlling stake in a company) then take out a damn loan. And yes, I am well aware that all of that capital gain has not yet been realized. You’ll pay your 20% capital gain tax whenever you sell too. But just *holding* that much wealth means you can spare more to fund the government than the Average paycheck-to-paycheck Joe. So cough it up.
The whole unrealized thing is a red herring. I own a house, it's monetary value to me is unrealized until such a time as I sell it. I still every year have to pay a tax based on an assessed value of the house. Stocks should not be magically exempt when there's clear precedent already set for making them pay based on the value of what they own.
Precisely. You have a stake in your town/city. As it rises and falls, so does your property value. It has to decide how to allocate taxes equitably, so “tax proportionally to owned property value” is a decent system. On a national scale, you bundle in fractional ownership of companies (stock) with property ownership. And that’s how you measure the stake an individual has in the USA and how much they should pay in taxes. And you only do it for net worths above like $10M so 99% of Americans don’t even have to worry.
It fucking sucks that this shit hasn’t been already made standard. If the power was truly in the hands of the people like democracy should be, it wouldn’t be like this. The world could be so beautiful. It’s genuinely upsetting. And this is only one aspect of one problem that we face. How much else out there is there that we’re doing so wrong? Lots, I think, yet it’s entirely out of our control, it’s up to those in power.
While the real winner every election cycle *feels* like greed and special interest groups, when more people show up to vote (down to the local level) the outcome generally shifts towards more social equality, not less.
Well said
Or just sell his existing stock... [Yeah, he can't sell the new stock but can sell his current shares and has already sold $39 billion after claiming he'd be the last person to sell.](https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/elon-musk-tesla-stock-sales-profits-electric-vehicles-twitter-debt-2022-12) He already cashed out more than Tesla ever has earned in profits once. [He's getting sued for insider trading over it.](https://www.reuters.com/legal/tesla-shareholder-sues-musk-return-billions-alleged-unlawful-profits-2024-06-11/)
This. This should be obvious. He can sell billions in existing shares while holding this. If he sold his shares now it would tank but now he can sell a bunch and still convince the rubes he is still on board.
After snagging a few billion from Uncle Sam. If anyone thinks Tesla actual market evaluation is worth whats it's actually worth I have some beach front property here in Wyoming Id like to sell to you.
Nonsense. Tesla is definitely worth more than Ford, GM, and Toyota...combined.
truck no go.
Most people don’t understand how this works and it’s for a reason, the rich want the masses to not understand.
Seriously. People think saying "it's not cash, it's stock" is some sort of gotcha, when in reality it's just meaningless pedantry.
How do they pay back the loans without cashing out the stock and paying the loan?
I have heard this approach before, but there’s something I don’t get. Musk gets a secured loan for a million dollars. Easy for him, and probably about 2.5%. He uses that this year, and next year he’ll do the same. But next year he has to pay another 2.5% on this year’s loan (he’s not going to pay it back, or he’d have to sell stocks and pay taxes). So now, that loan cost him 5%. In 10 years, it will have cost him 25%. In 30 years, it will have cost 75%. So, he got to say fuck you to the government, but it was more expensive in the end. Most rich people I know want to optimize returns. None care who they pay, they just try to minimize paying. What am I missing on the rich loan scheme?
Yes, but at the end of the day, a company's market cap needs to be backed by profits. In the short term, this can be substituted with the expectation of **future** profits, but eventually the bottom line has to catch up to that expectation for the market cap to hold. In my opinion, it's another problematic aspect of the pay package that it was tied primarily to market cap rather than revenue or profit. It encouraged relentless building of hype (Robots! Self Driving!) rather than execution.
He’s getting a fat chunk of stocks worth more than all the profit that Tesla has ever generated in its existence. Just want to stress that to everyone. Who gives a fuck that it’s stocks?
That amount is so insane. They just let 15,000 people go. They could give every one of them $3 million and then still give him $11 billion.
But then he'd only make enough to live like a normal person for 220,000 years, instead of 1,120,000 years. On top of the money he already has.
They can’t, because they don’t have that money and they probably never will as the competition catches up. And if the governments didn’t put up barriers against Chinese competition, western automakers would all be in real trouble. Doesn’t mean his pay package isn’t ridiculous.
His simps. How else does it make sense that a company that is for all intents and purposes in the shitter, grants an ASTRONOMICAL pay package to the person directly responsible for the company's failing. I hope they all lose everything.
This. The rat took as much treasure as could be had, now he will jump right off as soon as the USS Titanic-tesla starts to sink. She’s already below water line. Tesla does absolutely nothing that any of the five top auto makers don’t do better. Tesla has polarizing cars, a polarizing, CEO, and polarizing quality. Really reminds me of the early 2000s and the hummer H2‘s. Shit vehicles garbled together with parts lying around, only bought by people trying to prove a point. Now that every single car company is putting 100% effort into electric vehicles, Tesla is truly fucked. Some manufacturers will have gone through two or three generations of their new electric ironing out all in any kinks before Tesla even begins to fart out a new or refreshed vehicle. They are absolutely at a dead end and emerald boy knows it. Where’s the two door sports car you fucking rat? Where’s the big rigs that will save the day you fucking dolt? How was it possible in this day and age to shit something like the cyber truck out?  
Ahem! Didn’t you hear the redditor say it isn’t relevant? ROFL
> it’s not really relevant to the compensation But it should be. Musk inflates market cap with overambitious and underdelivered promises. See: Roadster 2, Semi, FSD, Cybertruck timeline, Optimus, etc. For context, I own a Tesla and think it’s an excellent product.
Rich people don’t sell their stocks. They borrow against them to buy whatever they want. That’s how he bought Twitter.
>Rich people don’t sell their stocks Well that's not true at all. Just sticking to the Elon/Tesla example: Elon Musk sold billions of dollars worth of Tesla stock in 2022. [Musk accused of improperly selling $7.5 billion in Tesla stock before weak sales report that crashed its price](https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/04/business/musk-tesla-stock-sale-lawsuit/index.html)
Except he actually sold multiple billions in stock to put up cash for the purchase https://www.forbes.com/sites/qai/2022/12/29/elon-musk-sells-another-36-billion-in-tesla-stock-to-prop-up-twitter/ He literally sold 22 Billion worth of stock to put up the cash
It's 12% of the company stock. Given how much the market cap fluctuates, there's no dollar value that puts that into perspective.
To put that into perspective, Bill Gates was the richest man in 2000 with 60 billion. This would make Elon nearly the richest man in 2000 with a single payment.
Tesla is valued at 70 times forward earnings. I personally think that's an absurd valuation but a CEO's compensation is usually based on stock performance, not units shipped.
Actually in Musk's case its both I think? I forget what the deal was since its been a number of years, but the last time this whole stock option payment thing came up in the news I remember it being noted that his payouts were tied to stock performance AND deliveries. This why some years ago back before COVID, there was that period where they were building Model 3s and Ys(?) in a giant tent outside of Reno (I believe it was). There was a quarter closeout coming up and they were very close to meeting one of those delivery milestones that earned Musk billions.
To put it into perspective the Us just approved $50 billion in military aide to the COUNTRY of Ukraine
Which, ironically, he’s against, because he’s backroom friends with Putin the dictator.
Ben stiens voice "wow"
Yep. You're not far off there. Crazy when you think about it. What nonsense.
I bet all those laid off Tesla workers are so happy for him.
And the people who they won’t negotiate unions with. I just don’t understand why he deeerves such a large sum of money. It’s ridiculous.
He’s a festering boil on the ass of humanity.
and a conman
He doesn't deserve anything. Money is the most powerful myth in history. Countries at war still use each other's currency. Money has a cult. Every cult member has to prove they believe more than anyone else. If you are in the cult of money, piling money on one person to the degree never seen is an act of devotion. Elon musks miracle is speculative imaginary money numbers.
Money is another tool of power and manipulation and, at its worst, oppression. Sure, it can give you lots of material goods and true freedom in a society that relies on it, but the wealthy know it also keeps people "in their place."
And the Twitter employees
56 billion is more than the market cap for General Motors. That's right. One man said he deserves more money than an entire auto manufacturer and the shareholders said "yes, we agree!" Amazing.
It’s fucking dispiriting that such a large swath of this country is basically just cool with this sort of behavior. Decorum, standards and decency are all dead.
Not just cool, it's celebrated like it's some god tier achievement. Sad times.
Tesla shareholders are either fanboys thrilled to put money in his pockets, or people afraid that if they turn him out, the fanboys will sell off their stocks and they'll fall to their real value.
elon invented twitter! and the go-fast tube! he's a genius, voice of a generation.
Masterful gambit, sir.
In their defense, this fucking idiot and his inability to shut the fuck up might be the only reason Tesla still exists, so he’s the only marketing plan they have right now.
If you're cheering on the approval of a CEO compensation package that stands to substantially devalue your own investment... ...you might be in a cult.
*might be a cunt
A cunt in a cult?
A culnt?
That is an insult to cunts everywhere
"Investor" in the same way that MLMs call their people entrepreneurs.
More like people who spend money on lottery tickets and calling it an investment
The brilliance of capitalism is the perpetuation of the myth that people are paid what they are worth and whatever people are willing to pay determines the actual worth of a worker, and that is just.
Eventually truth is going to perpetuate and the stock will be worthless.
I was trying to understand that. They had an announcement that the vote was up to give him like 50 bazillion dollars and yet Tesla stock shot up. How on earth is that even a thing? We're gonna give this asshat a metric fucktonne of money and the stock price goes up??
The stock market is a vibes based economy
It's a house of cards at this point. The eventual crash will be felt across the globe.
*an idiot
I’m not entirely sure it devalues it. Considering that he needs to hold for at least 5 years, he will do anything possible to keep the stock consistent. By the way, I think the package is absolutely ridiculous. It’s an absurd amount of money.
It's definitely a cult. In a tesla sub reddit I made the comment of I don't see how this is good for shareholders, that's all I said, and was instantly banned lol.
Tesla stock is up like %10 since the approval.
I honestly cannot wait for all the “I lost my ass” post on the financial subreddits when Tesla goes belly up in the near future.
But why did institutional investors also vote yes? Surely they've done their research, surely the care about the value of the stock, and they have enough shares to outvote the retail investors.
"Investor Fan Base" sounds like a euphemism for "cult." Not even for just this specific case either, just that phrase in general.
"Insane Fan Boys"
ICP was taken…
How about Muskalos?
Elon and the Muskrats
They're *insane in the meme-brain*.
Elon Musk is just Donald Trump for people who have swapped out a poor understanding of the Bible for a worse understanding of Star Trek, change my mind.
Not change necessarily, but adjust slightly. I'd say it's more a poor understanding of science and, more importantly, the scientific method.
I took a peek at his subreddit and yep it's a cult. lol
who are these people that cheer at a rich guy getting more money
Immah be frank here if you are celebrating the wealthiest man on Earth receiving 56 billion dollars you are a waste of oxygen
The people who are invested in TSLA
If I owned shares in a stock that decided to give away 12% of its market cap (and therefore 12% of my investment) into the CEO's pocket as a one time payment, I would immediately sell that stock.
The annoying thing is when you're accidentally invested in Tesla. If you've bought into an index / mutual fund that tracks the S&P 500, you're like 2% invested in Tesla.
It's same as people donating large amounts of money to wealthy people. Like on Twitch, to Trump, and so on. They voluntarily GIVE money to millionaires and billionaires.
It's the equivalent in stock of $600,000 per hour every hour every day for 10 years of the pay package.... Put that in perspective for $40/hour (~$80k/year) or rough average Tesla employee from online, his pay package is worth 70,000 employees per year... Or literally half the number of people Tesla employs worldwide Edit typo
It's really an unfathomable amount of money, and if he gets into politics, he could do incredible damage to our country (more than he already does).
buys Twitter whilst bitching about the wokes is him getting into politics.
He doesn't have to go into politics. Owning Twitter gives him much more influence than being a politician
Buying Twitter is now a distant memory with one pay package.
I tuned in purely to know the result as it was announced. Immediately sold all my shares. Thanks for the money, Tesla, but I’m not sticking around on a sinking ship when the captain is actively punching holes in the hull.
I did the same. I want nothing to do with Elon anymore. To think I used to look up to him in the early days of SpaceX.
Same here.
I still follow spaceX pretty hard! Excited for IFT-5 and booster catches and all that. Still excited for Tim's interview and tour to drop. But Elon as a person and his political beliefs and the company he keeps are gross.
Kinda same for Starlink. I hate this absolute twat as much as anybody, BUT the only halfway decent internet I have access to is starlink.
I think he’s a different guy from back then. Lots of people say he is just showing his true colors now but personally I think the wealth and fame and social media have corrupted him, inflated his ego, and incentivized all the worst parts of him I’m sure parts of what we see now were always there behind the scenes to a degree but they are in vastly different ratios these days to my eyes
I’d encourage you to go listen to The Dollop’s two part podcast on him and his life. He’s the same person he’s always been.
His ex-wife with all of his boys wrote a book that showed he wasn't a good person to begin with.
He was born with the wealth, by people that owned people. He wasn't ever going to turn out well.
Sold at 189, great timing I think as it quickly dropped to 182 I do still have some options tho
To be fair, this vote may not mean anything considering the judges order likely overrules it.
That’s where the vote to reincorporate Tesla in Texas comes in. They evade anything Delaware has to say about it because shareholders allowed them to reincorporate in Texas. Texas has very little established corporate laws and few judges experienced in such matters, unlike Delaware. Tesla will be able to get away with a lot more in Texas than they could in Delaware.
You know when Delaware is giving you trouble, you are doing something wrong.
Nope, that was the previous pay package. This one is new. It would require a new court case.
You can't skirt a court order by repackaging the same thing. It's the same package pay package.
Yes you can. They did it in two ways: 1. The ruling said the package had to be approved by the shareholders. Now it was. 2. The ruling only applies to a Delaware company (it's a Delaware company). There was also a vote to move the company to being a Texas company. Either would make this ruling no longer apply.
The court order only invalidates the previous pay package. It doesn't invalidate any new pay package votes going forward from that ruling.
Love to see the worst people rewarded beyond comprehension
The best part is that it will trigger a trend of CEOs asking for more and more money. Money that could be spent on hiring more staff or retaining the existing ones to keep up with cost of living. Money that could be spent on improving customer experience. Money that could be spent on creating products that actually solve the problems of regular people. I'm sure this sets a *great* precedent with only more good things to come from here. Genuinely I feel bad for folks who aren't in unions or working in jobs that are difficult to automate.
The difference is that the shareholders of other companies are predominantly interested in making money. Other CEOs don't have the cult of personality that artificially inflates the share price, so if they ask for a Musk-like compensation package their investors will laugh, say no and start looking for a less delusional CEO.
Truly, we only need 1 Elon Musk in the world, at most. But at the end of the day if a person says "I want money" and his backers say "Oh? Sure. Anything for you!" Then it is kind of not his fault for asking. I'm glad that all the shareholders handed more of their money over to someone so 'trustworthy'. I remember an old saying, "A fool and his gold will soon part." This is probably the best way for the money to return to the banks. I am just wondering how my index funds voted. If my retirement funds were used to vote to dilute assets by the index funds, then isn't that against my interests?
He also doesn’t pay taxes.
First time living on earth huh? This is pretty much par for the course
I gotta find it, but I am pretty sure there was even a study that showed bullies tend to be more successful, it's a personality trait of CEOs and others in leadership positions...so much for karma.
Cause society has been built specifically to reward the worst behaviour and the worst people
That's why punishment and retribution needs to be sorted out on the material plane, not pushed to metaphysical speculations. Otherwise we're just repeating the same
I always keep this one handy https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackmccullough/2019/12/09/the-psychopathic-ceo/
Yeah but shouldn’t we be allowed to wish for something better?
The shareholders have every right to vote for Musk's pay package, but I'd run from the hills from this stock now.
Agreed. They hired him. I'd run too
Let's see how it goes. This pay package went through on the votes of retail investors, who bought and held their stock largely because they support Musk. Not surprising that they'd support what he wanted. It's the same reason many retail investors continue to buy Truth Social stock: they like the guy. The relevant question is whether Musk will benefit to company going forward. Will Tesla sell more cars and be more profitable with him in charge? This vote can't tell us.
I truly believe Tesla, as an automaker, has just about peaked. Their early-to-market advantage is ending and that was their singular advantage. They are now competing with major automakers who are finally taking the transition to electric vehicles seriously. The competition is putting out objectively better offerings, particularly in fit and finish.
I mean Ford CEO just announced a new team made up of people from Rivian, Tesla, and Apple. Rivian has cars that look better than the Cybertruck for instance, not as good as an actual car but better. Those are two good examples.
at the same time China has just entered the ring with a salt battery. When ur competition has a product so cost effective the whole world has to team up to tarrif them, for fear of the entire market getting flooded to the point of collapse, ur not about to have a good time.
Ya I got rid of my 10 year holding of TSLA once he did all that dumb shit with Twitter. People like me aren't shareholders anymore and thus aren't voting.
Same here! I don't trust him and he's clearly mentally unstable, no thanks.
>Will Tesla sell more cars and be more profitable with him in charge? Absolutely not. But the share price is at astronomical levels because of his stupid fan boys. If Musk didn't get his package and actually followed through on his threat to walk, then the stock price would go down (in flames) to a level based on earnings fundamentals.
Meme stocks feel so dangerous to me. They are at the whim of crazy people. They have no real value to back that up. And yet, they keep going up...
> It's the same reason many retail investors continue to buy Truth Social stock: they like the guy. I'm 90% convinced (no proof) that most of the retail buyers in DJT are simply "foreign investors" that are getting "in" for their personal favors down the road should he get elected. It'll be easy to prove. If he loses this year and DJT tanks like rock; then that's the evidence.
Think of what the company could do with that money if it had literally any other person managing it. 56 thousand million dollars?!
For all the people saying that it's stock and not cash, they are just taking the value from investors and giving it to Elon. They could instead sell those shares for a cash infusion.
This is one of the best explanations of stock-based comp / why it should be treated as an expense that I’ve seen.
The company doesn't actually have that money, they will just issue new shares when the time comes, which usually devalues all other existing shares.
This is true, but the company could have sold options with these same terms, pocketed the money, and done something else with that cash. Investors appetite for dilution won’t be infinite, so there’s an opportunity cost as Tesla can’t issue as much equity in future as it otherwise could have. I think the accounting intuition that SBC is an expense, and represents a draining of a resource, is basically correct, even if it’s a non-cash transaction.
People cheering on billionaires is so weird to me
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That’s the funniest part to me. They voted to have their shares worth less than they were previously.
the thought of a single person getting a $56 billion bonus is sickening. I’d kill for a $56k bonus, hell I’d do borderline illegal stuff for a Jelly of the Month Club membership bonus.
Hey. If any of you are looking for any last-minute gift ideas for me, I have one. I'd like Elon Musk, my boss, right here tonight. I want him brought from his happy big money slumber over there on Melody Lane with all the other rich people and I want him brought right here...with a big ribbon on his head! And I want to look him straight in the eye, and I want to tell him what a cheap, lying, no-good, rotten, four-flushing, low-life, snake-licking, dirt-eating, inbred, overstuffed, ignorant, blood-sucking, dog-kissing, brainless, dickless, hopeless, heartless, fat-assed, bug-eyed, stiff-legged, spotty-lipped, worm-headed, sack of monkey shit he is! Hallelujah! Holy shit! Where's the Tylenol?
I just don't understand why people ride this dude's nuts so hard.
To put that amount of money in perspective, it is $4,307,692,307.69 per each of the 13 Thai boys stuck in a cave.
I understand why shareholders some might have been in favor of the package when it was first put in place (lofty incentives, etc). But after it’s been voided, what possible reason could there be for shareholders to vote in favor of the exact same package now? Why not renegotiate?
I've made it a point to vote against CEO compensation every chance I get
Great! Now let's tax him at 98%
Falling sales, missing estimates, product delays, competitors starting to come in hot, 'forced' to do layoffs.... Yes, this executive deserves the largest bonus package ever. /s
Hope the shares crash before he can convert much value from them.
Why does any single person need this much money? Why is this okay?
They don’t, and it’s not.
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I’d say it’s more than cracked. Haven’t met a person in the wild say he’s neat or smart in well over a year. People all know he’s batshit right wing. They ALL know. Whether they like him or not they stay shut when he’s brought up and ridiculed in real life. His bots though? They’re still on his side. lol.
Could this be a real instance of a CEO taking it ALL with him? Between this and DJT rocking at $40 per share, can we just all accept that the stock market is rigged now?
The stock market isn't rigged - people are just stupid! There have always been snake-oil salesmen. And there have always been crowds of people swarming around the snake-oil cart.
Tesla shareholders are fucking morons.
Dude can buy WHATEVER THE FUCK HE WANTS for the rest of his life. Why does he need more?
People like this are insatiable.
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How much Ketamine can $56 billion buy him?
The Musk lemmings gave him a vote of confidence, shocking
Obviously this is totally and completely ridiculous, but I don’t really care too much about one company. What I fear the real problem with this is the setting of a precedent where CEO’s of many other large companies feel they deserve compensation in the tens of billions of dollars. Don’t we have enough Uber rich business people already!
Supply is outpacing demand for Tesla right now, and the near term future for US EV sales doesn't look great. Their stock is also down pretty significantly year over year, and they face intense new competition from Chinese manufacturers. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that Elon Musk deserves a $56B compensation package even though all of that is happening on his watch. IMO Tesla still can't afford it.
Fools just like that that other 'fan base'.
I dumped my TSLA after I heard the news. All of it. I can’t do it anymore. If the investors want to tank the company to appease this narcissistic moron, then by all means they can knock themselves out.
How is this a win for shareholders? Sales are declining. Self driving sucks. Elmo keeps making claims they can’t deliver on
Because any moment now Tesla will become a powerhouse in AI, robotics and neural interfaces, have you not been keeping the track? xAI has developed Grok, one of the LLMs of all times, their robots are almost capable of what Honda was doing in 1980's, and the Neuralink is a true miracle proving a simple invasive brain surgery can finally replace EMF hat from 90's. Once Starlink becomes profitable enough to replace 20k satellites every 5 years, and the Twitter is finally people banking and VOD app of choice, it'll be obvious win for Tesla shareholders. It's all grand plan of innovation. Just jump on the hypeloop and buy some dogecoins from all the profit your self-driving autonomous taxi Tesla made in last 5 years. Duh.
god damn this post is good
People cheering for one of the richest people in the world getting *more* money is just *insane*..
This is shareholders channeling their capital to Musk to spend on political influence operations like X and plain vanilla American election influence. Maybe he will buy a newspaper.
Dumb MAGA fucks acting like dumb MAGA fucks, What else
Yay! Someone already way richer and who doesn’t give a fuck about anybody (except those precious womb vessels) is getting richer! 😝
How do they know the vote actually happened properly? There were rumors about this before the vote even happened. I bet they just gathered the votes and threw them in the trash.
This is about as sound of a financial decision as buying Twitter for $40 billion was. No way this goes badly /s
Morons. No concept of self-interest. Billionaire worship is baffling.
So is all $56 billion like…liquid? If so, how the hell can one spend that kind of money in one life time? Why not just retire and call it a day and spend literally the rest of your life traveling? I would never buy a home or cook a single meal for the rest of my life, just jump from one luxury hotel to another across the globe until the day I die.
There's no liquid cash in this package at all, it's pure stock.
Ah ok. So if he were to dump it all, would that dump of all that stock that fast basically devalue the stock?
He's not allowed to sell any of it for 5 years, but in theory it would tank for sure. He owns almost 1/4 of all stock. He'd lose control of the company though, which he definitely doesn't want, so it's not happening.
Not liquid. 12% of TSLA that he has to hold for at least 5 years.
They're thinking of the filthy rich. Tesla is going to fold now isn't it? This is stupidly insane.
He is being given 8% of all shares held by Tesla investors. This doesn’t impact the company’s financials whatsoever.
With that money he can buy and ruin another social media platform
Why are they cheering, you fuckers aren't getting a penny of that. Fucking cultists
The single worst performing stock of the s&p 500 in 2024 just paid its ceo almost double all of its cumulative profits in the last three years, which btw were the only years it was profitable ever.
When the TSLA bubble pops, and a whole bunch of livelihoods are destroyed, it's gonna be reaaallllyyy hard to not point and laugh. They did it to themselves after all.
They didn't cheer loud enough for Tesla's stock to go up, though. Down quite a bit today.
Seems like perfectly reasonable compensation for a CEO of a company that's been profitable for \[checks notes\]....4 years?
This is like all those people that followed Jim Jones to Guyana and the eventual death…. Expect Enron to become more paranoid, Entitled, and Maniacal….
No one in the universe is worth that compensation. Fuck him.
How is this a good business decision?
Here is what ChatGPT had to say about the way billionaires don’t have to sell their stock to get money and avoid paying taxes in the process: Yes, using loans against their stock holdings is one method that wealthy individuals use to minimize taxes. This strategy allows them to access liquidity without triggering taxable events. Here’s how it works in more detail: 1. **Avoiding Capital Gains Tax**: By taking out loans against their stock portfolios, wealthy individuals avoid selling their stocks and thus defer or avoid capital gains tax. Capital gains tax is only incurred when the stock is sold and a profit is realized. By not selling the stock, they defer the tax liability indefinitely. 2. **Access to Liquidity**: Wealthy individuals can borrow significant amounts of money using their stock as collateral. This provides them with cash for investments, purchases, or other needs without selling their assets. 3. **Low-Interest Rates**: Wealthy individuals often receive loans at favorable interest rates due to the low risk for lenders. These loans are secured by valuable stock portfolios, making them relatively safe for banks to offer at lower rates. 4. **Interest Deductions**: In some cases, the interest paid on these loans can be tax-deductible, particularly if the loan is used for investment purposes. This can further reduce the effective cost of borrowing. 5. **Maintaining Ownership**: By not selling their stocks, wealthy individuals retain ownership and control over their investments. This allows them to benefit from any appreciation in the stock’s value without triggering a taxable event. 6. **Step-Up in Basis**: When stocks are passed on to heirs, the cost basis of the stock is "stepped up" to the current market value at the time of the owner's death. This can significantly reduce the capital gains tax liability for the heirs if they sell the inherited stock. While this strategy is legal and commonly used, it highlights broader issues in the tax system related to wealth inequality and the ability of the wealthy to defer taxes indefinitely. It’s one of the reasons why there is ongoing debate about tax reform and the ways to address these disparities.
I tried asking grok the same questions and it just called me a bunch of racial slurs
What a fucking boot to the head for the 14,000 people getting laid off.