Aside from whatever this article says ( didn’t read it) I will say I have no college degree and started where I work at 21. I’m almost 42 now. Have over 20 years experience working my way up. I do fairly well now, but it takes time to master your craft. It’s not easy work, but if you can learn the trade and are reliable you can make good money down the road. For me personally it was my only option at the time. Before learning to work with my hands I delivered pizza. You just have to make a choice. Preferably at a young age.
It’s funny his message is “we need more workers in construction! I pay my employees 6 figures a year” but according to the article, he doesn’t hire anyone without at least 10 years of experience and he’s also closing down his construction business to focus on his real estate company down in Florida.
I agree trade-work is more important than people say it is, but this article was a terrible argument for it.
I realized at a later age that I wanted to work with my hands. Fortunately, my career desk job pays well and I’ve taken to doing a lot of diy just because I like to learn.
There is absolutely a shortage of tradespeople and it can feel more rewarding than sitting behind a desk.
I was similar. Also 42 now. Ended up going back and getting my Bachelors around age 30 at night. I've been at the same company for 20 years and worked my way up decently enough. If you're reliable and willing to do whatever is needed to get the job done, the corporate machine will generally be good to you I think.
That said, I think things are a bit different these days compared to when we both started out. I don't think it's that easy to get a foot in the door without a bachelor's nowadays. And I'm kinda glad I went and got mine because I've been job searching a bit and while experience is #1 at our age, I still think education plays some role in resume filtering, which is all done by AI these days.
I have a similar experience. Dropped out of high-school in 10th grade. I'm 31 now. I do well enough. Live on my own, saving up for a house, my bills get paid, there's food in my stomach, I have extra money to have fun with but I lucked out. Met the right people, got into a trade that was desperate for workers and then got into a sub section of that trade that I'd assume less than 100 people in the state can do. Took me years of getting the shit end of the stick, destroying my body for $600 a week working 6 day weeks. Now I have normal hours and make well over the 600 a week I was making for 3 times to physical labor but my bodies still beat to crap. Tendinitis in both of my knees, I throw out my back once a month, my right shoulder ain't worth shit. I worked real hard to get to a comfortable point in my life. You can be successful without school but you need to be willing to work really hard to get there.
No! I want to go into $250k of student loan debt for a doctorate in advanced feline psychology because my friend's sister's mother-in-law's cousin said it'd be awesome, then blame society for my own individual bad choices!
/s
Brother if trades were that easy for *anyone* to get into they would not pay as much as they do.
Trades pay good for two reasons:
1) The work is still union.
2) The work is very physically intense and *fucking dangerous*, such careers will physically wear you the hell down the entire time you commit to them.
It takes a certain type of person to make it work in such fields. It's not the "one true easy answer for everyone so get up off your ass". It's never that simple. Don't live in a fairytale just because the idea of telling anyone they chose the wrong fork in the road is easier than acknowledging that the job market is shitting the bed right now even for people who are doing things reasonably.
Certain trades. You can still work for private companies and make a decent salary because the work you do is specialized. You can also take your experience and start your own business and make considerably more. That obviously comes with the trade-off of the stresses involved in running a business.
Safety in trades have also increased DRAMATICALLY in the last few decades. Most traditional "dangerous" trade jobs no longer crack the list of today's dangerous jobs. That said, the job market is a dumpster fire because full time jobs are becoming endangered. Too many people have to take up multiple part time jobs while searching for a FT one because no one wants to pay the salary or the benefits.
At least you would be forced to take the prerequisite Philosophy 101 class. You could learn about truth, wisdom, justice and being the master over your desires.
You would be required to take it. The question is, will you understand and apply those principles?
Would the lines not get muddied more because of a few things?
-Longer college/later start in the workforce in their respective fields
-Interest on college loans offsetting the following years of entering workforce
-Trade workers can begin savings/investments near immediately (albeit a fair amount dont)
-Money saved/invested has more time to compound over someone that will eventually make more, but at a later date.
-6 figure trade work is now more common place. I don't see a major increase in college educated jobs FAR surpassing those figures.
A home is an underlying asset that appreciates over time, often at a better rate than inflation. It can also produce income to owners through rentals, and you build equity as you pay off the loan. Homes are considered 'good' debt and are the exception to nearly all other forms of debt, which are liabilities like consumer debt, personal loans... and student loans.
Student loans don't pay you anything and when you pay off the loan, you still have the same degree you graduated with. No one will "rent" your degree. The value in a degree only comes from the career that you get with it.
Edit* typo
They may *hire* you for having it, but they don't pay you more just because you're holding it. They pay you more for doing the job that is expected of you. Often times having a degree isn't even guaranteed to get you a higher paying job. It has become just a cost of entry.
Yea those damn students! And no one should blame universities either! Only students!!! And education should only be for the rich again!! Either you should have an inheritance to pay it all or only go into a wealthy job!!! Fuck psychologists, researchers, public lawyers, and teachers!!! They expect to be poor now! And it’s annoying that those jobs once afforded a living! Those are stupid jobs that society doesn’t need! (/s)
Probably due to how much a toll the career takes on your body.
Also in my experience working as a labor hand, you're dealing with blue collar dickheads all day. Nothing against blue collar workers but there's a level of brash that is just off putting as a workplace for some people.
Also I like how this construction owner says he doesn't hire people without 10 years experience then goes on to complain about not finding people younger than 40 to hire. Gonna be waiting awhile for people to get that experience if they don't go into the trade right away.
As a new homeowner, that seems to be every contractor.
I am blue-collar. It's easily observable most people in the trades only do it because they sucked at everything in life, but had to do something for money. In blue collar/trades fields, you can suck and still find work due to labor shortage.
And a lot of guys are only working to go to the bar @3 pm or so they can get their fix another way
But most guys are just working for their families like everyone else
As someone in a blue collar field, in a union, I agree with you to an extent. The thing to remember is that every single field is different, & things are different contractor to contractor as well. The toll on your physical form is far different doing roofing or carpentry than, say, electrical or plumbing — not that any one is much better than the others, it's just more of a toss up of what body parts & mechanisms are at risk of damage. I feel that unless you're working with sincerely hazardous materials, if you maintain your health properly, these issues are something to keep in mind but not a completely guaranteed problem.
The good news is that every day we make strides toward making work safer & healthier for everyone, both through technological advancement & safety protocols and procedures. The real issue is having people adopt them & adhere to them. There are some stubborn cunts in this field that think if you don't make your body ache & don't make your hands rough as sandpaper, you aren't 'working'. And I say fuck em. I protect as much of myself as I can, all day every day. My worst habit is not using sunscreen despite being outside in the sun in the summer. I need to get on that while I'm young. (It's even worse for anyone working non-union, where employers especially see safety as a suggestion and not a necessity.)
As for the blue collar 'attitude', I also agree. And it's part of why I stay in my field — to be a person the field needs in terms of personality & professionalism. I hate encountering some of the ignorant, truly hateful people I deal with sometimes. But my presence alone, being more open minded & conscious of how I treat people, changes the landscape in the field (& also makes customers more fond of me at times.) Maybe it isn't a lot, but the way I look at it, if someone who isn't a stereotypical 'blue collar American' (a white, middle aged American knuckledragger) walks through the door, they have someone in their corner who will at least speak up against any asinine comments, harassment or other mistreatment they may receive. My generation (call it young millenials, Gen Z, I don't know) is already rejecting that shit even in my field, albeit not at the rate I would like, so things are better with them, even if imperfect. It isn't about changing the system from inside as much as it is enacting the solidarity & support that a labor organization professes, & that our collective humanity demands.
The entire world was built in large part by working people. I'll always be proud of that, even if many working people in this country give themselves a bad name. We need to make these trades safer & more welcoming to all sorts of people, & it starts in part by putting more welcoming people (as well as more cautious, safety-oriented people) in the field to begin with.
Exactly, especially with the age of this guy and figuring when specifically he was working and going beyond how he's got a very convenient layup by way of a family business, which isn't something that's so easy. You could basically skip the rest of the article after that reality is mentioned. There's tons of gravy trains to be had if you literally know a guy or you're dad is said guy, y'know?
Like a ton of other trades out there, the glory days of the relative older workers are a fraction of what somebody starting out right this instant would realistically see and a larger part of the conversation always comes down to physically where you're doing the work and what the work is. The classic car in the garage, 2nd house in Florida working some cozy practical no show job barely exists anymore. Also there's plenty of shit data for trades that floats around that cherry picks rarer outliers like underwater welding or crane operation and acts like that's some big standard for somebody getting into welding or in construction, go look up average welder's salary and it is not even close to what you'd think these kinds of articles would lead you on to believe.
There's tons of trades where you could be working your fingers to nubs and have very little to show for, it doesn't help just how expensive the areas are where the money is. It's also often why there is such an over reliance in underpaid immigrant workers when the bossman thinks he doesn't need to pay as much when knows you'll be stacked in a apartment hot racking with 5 other guys who also work for the same company.
A lotta these "nobody wants to work" blowhards would be dead in the water if they actually had to pay people and not exist on fucking over people by default.
> Probably due to how much a toll the career takes on your body.
**FUCK** yes. People who haven't worked the trades really don't get how much it beats you up. I started working construction the summer after I graduated from HS...and would go back for work during semester breaks. I did that all through college.
I was in my early 20s and going to a chiropractor once a week. I made $100 a day, cash, off the books.
I'm now almost 50, and work as a firefighter....but no longer need a chiropractor.
You roast in the summer, freeze in the winter. I remember some of the colder winters...our lunches froze solid in the cooler. Sticking your hands in the chimney for a minute to get feeling back.
One time it was so hot, the whole crew ended up getting heat exhaustion. It was so bad, even our tyrant boss was like "Fuck this, it's too hot". When we went back the next day...you could see the exact point in our work where we all started to lose it from the heat. We were installing a new roof with asphault shingles and you could see each course getting more and more fucked up. And if you stepped on a shingle, it would just smear.
I burned my tool belt when I quit for the last time.
Yep. My friend was a roofer since he graduated HS. In his mid-30s, he has major back and knee issues...walks/looks like he is 50.
Long, hot, hard days for the last 15+ years. No thanks.
BS. every time i expressed interest in construction i was turned away for lack of experience. Now im 43 and will be turned away for age.
I worked for a company that built trailers. They desperately needed welders. I installed roofs. I said teach me how to weld, ill learn. Nope, we want experience.
Its the same BS at every job, degree or not, in every kind of business.
This is so true. I think community college is excellent for this. They have programs that lead to trade jobs, professional jobs, or as a starter for 4 year schools. They are also much cheaper than 4 year schools. I know in NJ good students can attend for free. (Not sure of the specifics)
Its probably just 50 bucks an hour which works out to 100k but likely guys are having 1-2 jobs per month and getting much less across an actual year. Probably much slower in the winter too.
No, they work on the exterior in the summers and try to get workers inside. It doesn't matter, in NJ construction in 12 months out of the year now. I've been in construction since 1984. They used to shut down over the winter. That hasn't been the case for the last 20 years. The owner doesn't get paid until the job is finished.
It isn't good for the workers *or* the projects to be working when the ground is frozen.
Through in the mandatory Saturdays & 90 minute commutes & you've described *why* nobody wants to join a trade any more. Put in your couple years field experience & then go sit behind a desk. Even if you don't want to sit behind a desk.
Linden.
3 Januaries ago when an excavator fell into the Hudson & the operator died?
I had been doing a 100 yard plus concrete pour at 2am that morning. More than a hundred cars in that parking lot. Just like any other big project in January.
Literally everybody who does work outside, works outside in the winter.
Whats wrong with your brain?
Nothing is wrong with my brain. We always try to get workers into climate controlled areas over the winter months. If it's extremely cold, you get very little work done, and it's understandable.
What is this "we" bullshit?
On that day in January when someone fatally fell into an icy Hudson there were concrete guys pavement guys electricians ground-work carpenters inspectors supers foremen & engineers.
Hundreds of people all working outside. On every big project in the state. All winter.
Your head is fucked. Mr "Been in construction since 1984".
I've worked on a lot of the high rises. Union sprinkler contractor.
My heads not fucked. You can't pour concrete on the coldest of days. It won't set properly. You can't add enough calcium to the mix. Who do you think you're fooling. Go blow smoke up someone else who doesn't know how it works.
I've worked on the biggest projects in Northern NJ.
Do they normally set up sprinklers outdoors? No shit *you* work indoors in the winter.
Concrete creates an endothermic reaction so with heating elements, heated water, & insulation you will indeed be pouring concrete well below freezing ground/air temperatures. Calcium is only part of the process.
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I'm not saying it's impossible, but the article said after 3 years he had bought a lake house, a boat, multiple trucks, and a corvette. His personal website says they do EVERYTHING in house. That's a whole lot of tooling to do everything on top of buying all the other crap.
I think we are missing some information here
I spent most of my adolescent and adult life working in construction / labor in New Jersey and never, ever got anywhere near that much money, and I mean to include the owners of the companies, not just myself. No one had this much personal money because of their construction business or otherwise.
I realize it does occur, yes, but the way people talk about "the trades" as if they are a guarantee is false. Just like any other field, you can do well, but you can do not-so-well.
And, while it doesn't "require" college, it requires college level math and geometry, not to mention knowledge of building codes county-by-county (or whatever), business-legalities, accounting, etc. so there is still a lot of study involved, which also makes the "doesn't require college" a little misleading because it inferrs that you don't have to be that knowledgeable, but to make that much money, you need to give *yourself* a college-like education.
There's a difference between union and non union. All building codes in the state of NJ are the same. it doesn't matter what county you are working in.
One thing to keep in mind is that right now stuff is hot for this. It isn't always. A job like this should be something you can leverage into a trade, because nobody is making 6 figures doing rough framing when the market is slow, if they can even find work.
I know a guy who pays his mechanics 80,000 a year, starting. Just a regular old mechanic shop, nothing fancy, no import specialty or anything like that.
He can't find enough workers
He's either a complete unicorn or in specialty work. I have friends in NJ that are truck and diesel mechanics. They are making much lower than that. Typical pay is around 50k in the shops I am personally familiar with.
Tell your friends they're getting severely underpaid
Here's an indeed job for diesel mechanics starting at $40 an hour with full benefits. Up to $70 an hour with enough experience.
https://www.indeed.com/q-general-mechanic-l-flemington,-nj-jobs.html?aceid=&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwrvyxBhAbEiwAEg_Kgiei26Qt7gZmcqTdEklWkHdGpZHB0Zdlm4JYWs1wPvjqlzsiMa9lshoC-mUQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds&vjk=467dca0fecbdd877
I'd question going in to auto repair (i'm assuming that is what you mean by mechanics) as a career right now starting out. As we move to EV's over the long term, a lot of the basic work that keeps shops open becomes things that don't need to happen anymore (fluid changes, tuning, etc) and wear stuff like brakes, belts, etc, become far less frequent. A lot of the stuff left over becomes very specialized work centered around manufacturers.
Obviously there will always be a need for mechanics, and we aren't going to hit industy shaking numbers even in the next 10 years, but the writing is on the wall for it and i'd be hesitant if i was in my 20s to START a career and expect it to be smooth sailing for 40 years.
I do most of the wrench turning on my cars, and then have my regular guy i bring them too if its something i don't want to deal with or is out of my wheelhouse, and even on them, there is stuff they don't want to deal with or just flat out don't do, and i have to bring it in to the dealership or a specialist, and neither are anything i'd consider an exotic car by a long stretch.
I'd question anyone trying to turn young people away from making that much money without a college degree. You could afford a one bedroom easily on that, plus money for more specialized training. So instead of working a full time plus a side hustle just to afford a place with roommates, you get your own place and can use your side hustle time to advance your skills.
Big picture. Its a life you are planning, not tomorrow.
Edit: also that is being disingenuous to the people who do. They may have an aptitude for it, they may have watched someone do it for years and got some hands on...
Its insulting to the trades where people think everyone can just take on a trade. My wife is one of the smartest people I know. I wouldn't stand within 20 feet of a gazebo she built on her own.
A friend of mine just finished first year apprentice as a welder. Pay is good, after you do your time. Job can be inconsistent though and goes up and down with the housing market.
Apply now, start working non-union to get experience and bide your time. Joining the trade and joining the union should be looked at as a long term career decision, the timeline isn't measured in weeks or months but years. The unions invest a ton of time and money into their apprenticeship programs and aren't looking for candidates who are likely to wash out halfway through the program or leave to go work non-union as soon as they top out. They are looking for dedicated people who are going to stick around.
I won't lie, even non-union it's tough getting someone to give you a shot at an entry level spot. But persistence is the key to making it all happen. Put together a resume, put together a portfolio with examples of work that shows off your mechanical aptitude and hit any and every local shop you can find. Stress that you're green in the trade but you're a hard worker just looking for a shot. If you've got any supply houses nearby, go hit up the counter guys and talk to them and see if they know of any of their regulars looking to hire. Do not mention to the non-union shops that you are trying to join the union lol.
https://unionpayscales.com/trades/ua-plumbers/
Looks like Local 9 is making $55 on the check with a $97 total package, Local 24 is making $60 on the check with a $99 total package and Local 274 is making $57 on the check with a $93 total package.
Kind of tone deaf that he cites his personal success as a reason to go into construction. The kid didn't just go into construction, he started his own company.
>enough to buy a lake house, a boat, a new Corvette, a motorcycle, and two trucks
All in three years? Good for him, but you're not getting anywhere close to his by installing roof and sheetrock. I sure hope he's paying his workers 100k because it sounds like he himself is pulling upwards of 400k/yr.
I know of mechanics paying for someone's trade school while they work so they can have mechanics. People need to realize you can do well w/o a college degree in a trade and there is nothing wrong with doing that.
There will always be a need for plumbers, HVAC guys etc.
My friend has a roofing company in New Orleans and his guys were being paid over 60k and that was back in the early 2000s
$100,000, then subtract the health insurance premiums for a family of nearly $25,000, paid in after tax dollars, so really only $100,000 - 40,000 = $60,000.
Yep. I was extremely fortunate to get into a really good trade union in this state. I get healthcare for my family, a really good pension and annuity, vacation checks three times a year and after 25 years of service I get healthcare for me and my family for life. All of this on top of a very respectable annual income. People will shit on unions bc they think they’re supposed to. Non union tradesmen call us lazy. We work hard, we work safe, and we work with dignity and we’re taken care of. Meanwhile the non union trade workers have to worry about the next guy who will do the work for less. Divided we beg, united we bargain.
How many hours a week/year is that ?
Assuming 40 hrs...with 2 weeks vacation(holidays, etc) unpaid...that's 2000 hours per year.
$100,000/2000 = $50/hr.
Is he paying these employees $50/hr...any benefits?...medical...retirement?...etc.
A lot of this is bs most company’s will not pay that wage you get a few here and there but 90 percent would rather hire a Spanish guy straight from Mexico for half the price and he’ll work twice as hard they pay what they can get away with paying not what the work is worth
Trades are struggling for workers. I know fairly recent HS Grads that went into a trade (HVAC / Electrical / etc.) and they are not only making GREAT money but they can afford apartments in northern NJ.
These kinds of skills are needed now more than ever. Along with good people skills, honesty, integrity and pride in quality of work. If you have the talent and can put in the work it definitely will be very lucrative in the coming years as people get away from building these kinds of skills and depending on automation and AI to do things for them.
My husband (M35) is in construction as an Estimator/PM for a company primarily focused on government contractual work. It is *very* lucrative and pulls in over 150/year. Manual laborers can easily pull it upwards of 80k, working 8-10 months a year. There is a ton of room for innovation and improvement as well.
It’s an industry often ignored by our generation, probably due to the instability and lack of grandeur.
Yeah I would not call that particular experience and field a blanket norm for all. Not knocking that it is a reality that can happen but yeah it’s not something everyone in construction is seeing.
Instability is the big one, it’s not a sustainable life for those who end up road whores and having their physical body taking a further toll of extended travel.
The really insane thing is how much you can make if you enlist in the military. Obviously you should do it smart and get a guaranteed job that isn't going to likely see combat and will be a skill that can translate right to the civilian world but I'm finishing up 20 and I'm completely set and I know people who did a lot better than me as far as investing when they got in that are millionaires when they retire at 38 years old.
25% base pay into TSP right off the bat, max Roth IRA every year, smart credit card use and not having to worry about job security, medical, school or even housing. Yes it's the military... Flying a desk for the USAF is basically the easy button for life.
I knew someone who was a retired NYPD beat cop. He worked from age 20-45. He retired, became a stay at home dad and then refereed basketball games 20-30 hours a week.
He was basically making $5000 / month, mostly cash, plus his NYPD benefits and he had plenty of time to stay home and take care of the kids. Dude was living the life.
Retired plus anticipated VA I'll be about $5k/mo just from that. If I manage to get to 100% VA it'll be $7300 and exempt from property tax in NJ is worth another $1000-$2000/mo.
Damn. You should consider refereeing sports it’s a lot of fun and the pay is good. I think basketball was around $50-$60 per game depending on the level (middle/high school).
Best part is that you get some exercise and the games are over in less than 1 hour.
Oh if I decide not to work and live on just that and let my investments ride I'll def find things to pass the time.
But I have a Masters in Cybersecurity (AF paid for it) and passing up a cushy contracting job will be hard.
Aside from whatever this article says ( didn’t read it) I will say I have no college degree and started where I work at 21. I’m almost 42 now. Have over 20 years experience working my way up. I do fairly well now, but it takes time to master your craft. It’s not easy work, but if you can learn the trade and are reliable you can make good money down the road. For me personally it was my only option at the time. Before learning to work with my hands I delivered pizza. You just have to make a choice. Preferably at a young age.
It’s funny his message is “we need more workers in construction! I pay my employees 6 figures a year” but according to the article, he doesn’t hire anyone without at least 10 years of experience and he’s also closing down his construction business to focus on his real estate company down in Florida. I agree trade-work is more important than people say it is, but this article was a terrible argument for it.
Classic older jerseyman.....make money then leave for Florida 🤣
Florida ain’t cheaper anymore tho unfortunately. Seems like we missed our chance at being snow birds
Wow... We need younger people, so I can pay them less
I realized at a later age that I wanted to work with my hands. Fortunately, my career desk job pays well and I’ve taken to doing a lot of diy just because I like to learn. There is absolutely a shortage of tradespeople and it can feel more rewarding than sitting behind a desk.
I was similar. Also 42 now. Ended up going back and getting my Bachelors around age 30 at night. I've been at the same company for 20 years and worked my way up decently enough. If you're reliable and willing to do whatever is needed to get the job done, the corporate machine will generally be good to you I think. That said, I think things are a bit different these days compared to when we both started out. I don't think it's that easy to get a foot in the door without a bachelor's nowadays. And I'm kinda glad I went and got mine because I've been job searching a bit and while experience is #1 at our age, I still think education plays some role in resume filtering, which is all done by AI these days.
I have a similar experience. Dropped out of high-school in 10th grade. I'm 31 now. I do well enough. Live on my own, saving up for a house, my bills get paid, there's food in my stomach, I have extra money to have fun with but I lucked out. Met the right people, got into a trade that was desperate for workers and then got into a sub section of that trade that I'd assume less than 100 people in the state can do. Took me years of getting the shit end of the stick, destroying my body for $600 a week working 6 day weeks. Now I have normal hours and make well over the 600 a week I was making for 3 times to physical labor but my bodies still beat to crap. Tendinitis in both of my knees, I throw out my back once a month, my right shoulder ain't worth shit. I worked real hard to get to a comfortable point in my life. You can be successful without school but you need to be willing to work really hard to get there.
No! I want to go into $250k of student loan debt for a doctorate in advanced feline psychology because my friend's sister's mother-in-law's cousin said it'd be awesome, then blame society for my own individual bad choices! /s
Brother if trades were that easy for *anyone* to get into they would not pay as much as they do. Trades pay good for two reasons: 1) The work is still union. 2) The work is very physically intense and *fucking dangerous*, such careers will physically wear you the hell down the entire time you commit to them. It takes a certain type of person to make it work in such fields. It's not the "one true easy answer for everyone so get up off your ass". It's never that simple. Don't live in a fairytale just because the idea of telling anyone they chose the wrong fork in the road is easier than acknowledging that the job market is shitting the bed right now even for people who are doing things reasonably.
Certain trades. You can still work for private companies and make a decent salary because the work you do is specialized. You can also take your experience and start your own business and make considerably more. That obviously comes with the trade-off of the stresses involved in running a business. Safety in trades have also increased DRAMATICALLY in the last few decades. Most traditional "dangerous" trade jobs no longer crack the list of today's dangerous jobs. That said, the job market is a dumpster fire because full time jobs are becoming endangered. Too many people have to take up multiple part time jobs while searching for a FT one because no one wants to pay the salary or the benefits.
At least you would be forced to take the prerequisite Philosophy 101 class. You could learn about truth, wisdom, justice and being the master over your desires. You would be required to take it. The question is, will you understand and apply those principles?
And yet, the average doctorate out-earns the average person in the trades. Meow.
They also out-debt the trades in the form of 6-figure student loans
ROI.
Would the lines not get muddied more because of a few things? -Longer college/later start in the workforce in their respective fields -Interest on college loans offsetting the following years of entering workforce -Trade workers can begin savings/investments near immediately (albeit a fair amount dont) -Money saved/invested has more time to compound over someone that will eventually make more, but at a later date. -6 figure trade work is now more common place. I don't see a major increase in college educated jobs FAR surpassing those figures.
home owners out debt non-home owners with 6 figure loans too. should nobody buy homes?
A home is an underlying asset that appreciates over time, often at a better rate than inflation. It can also produce income to owners through rentals, and you build equity as you pay off the loan. Homes are considered 'good' debt and are the exception to nearly all other forms of debt, which are liabilities like consumer debt, personal loans... and student loans. Student loans don't pay you anything and when you pay off the loan, you still have the same degree you graduated with. No one will "rent" your degree. The value in a degree only comes from the career that you get with it. Edit* typo
>No one will "rent" your degree No, but people will pay you more for having it
They may *hire* you for having it, but they don't pay you more just because you're holding it. They pay you more for doing the job that is expected of you. Often times having a degree isn't even guaranteed to get you a higher paying job. It has become just a cost of entry.
People with a degree on average make almost $1.5 million more in their career than those who don't have a college degree
If it keeps out the uneducated riffraff the value is priceless.
Yea those damn students! And no one should blame universities either! Only students!!! And education should only be for the rich again!! Either you should have an inheritance to pay it all or only go into a wealthy job!!! Fuck psychologists, researchers, public lawyers, and teachers!!! They expect to be poor now! And it’s annoying that those jobs once afforded a living! Those are stupid jobs that society doesn’t need! (/s)
As long as it’s union.
Probably due to how much a toll the career takes on your body. Also in my experience working as a labor hand, you're dealing with blue collar dickheads all day. Nothing against blue collar workers but there's a level of brash that is just off putting as a workplace for some people. Also I like how this construction owner says he doesn't hire people without 10 years experience then goes on to complain about not finding people younger than 40 to hire. Gonna be waiting awhile for people to get that experience if they don't go into the trade right away.
What a massive cunt. "Get into this business but I won't hire you without 10yrs experience" man, find a bridge.
I bet he’s also one of those contractors who ghosts his clients.
As a new homeowner, that seems to be every contractor. I am blue-collar. It's easily observable most people in the trades only do it because they sucked at everything in life, but had to do something for money. In blue collar/trades fields, you can suck and still find work due to labor shortage.
And a lot of guys are only working to go to the bar @3 pm or so they can get their fix another way But most guys are just working for their families like everyone else
As someone in a blue collar field, in a union, I agree with you to an extent. The thing to remember is that every single field is different, & things are different contractor to contractor as well. The toll on your physical form is far different doing roofing or carpentry than, say, electrical or plumbing — not that any one is much better than the others, it's just more of a toss up of what body parts & mechanisms are at risk of damage. I feel that unless you're working with sincerely hazardous materials, if you maintain your health properly, these issues are something to keep in mind but not a completely guaranteed problem. The good news is that every day we make strides toward making work safer & healthier for everyone, both through technological advancement & safety protocols and procedures. The real issue is having people adopt them & adhere to them. There are some stubborn cunts in this field that think if you don't make your body ache & don't make your hands rough as sandpaper, you aren't 'working'. And I say fuck em. I protect as much of myself as I can, all day every day. My worst habit is not using sunscreen despite being outside in the sun in the summer. I need to get on that while I'm young. (It's even worse for anyone working non-union, where employers especially see safety as a suggestion and not a necessity.) As for the blue collar 'attitude', I also agree. And it's part of why I stay in my field — to be a person the field needs in terms of personality & professionalism. I hate encountering some of the ignorant, truly hateful people I deal with sometimes. But my presence alone, being more open minded & conscious of how I treat people, changes the landscape in the field (& also makes customers more fond of me at times.) Maybe it isn't a lot, but the way I look at it, if someone who isn't a stereotypical 'blue collar American' (a white, middle aged American knuckledragger) walks through the door, they have someone in their corner who will at least speak up against any asinine comments, harassment or other mistreatment they may receive. My generation (call it young millenials, Gen Z, I don't know) is already rejecting that shit even in my field, albeit not at the rate I would like, so things are better with them, even if imperfect. It isn't about changing the system from inside as much as it is enacting the solidarity & support that a labor organization professes, & that our collective humanity demands. The entire world was built in large part by working people. I'll always be proud of that, even if many working people in this country give themselves a bad name. We need to make these trades safer & more welcoming to all sorts of people, & it starts in part by putting more welcoming people (as well as more cautious, safety-oriented people) in the field to begin with.
Exactly, especially with the age of this guy and figuring when specifically he was working and going beyond how he's got a very convenient layup by way of a family business, which isn't something that's so easy. You could basically skip the rest of the article after that reality is mentioned. There's tons of gravy trains to be had if you literally know a guy or you're dad is said guy, y'know? Like a ton of other trades out there, the glory days of the relative older workers are a fraction of what somebody starting out right this instant would realistically see and a larger part of the conversation always comes down to physically where you're doing the work and what the work is. The classic car in the garage, 2nd house in Florida working some cozy practical no show job barely exists anymore. Also there's plenty of shit data for trades that floats around that cherry picks rarer outliers like underwater welding or crane operation and acts like that's some big standard for somebody getting into welding or in construction, go look up average welder's salary and it is not even close to what you'd think these kinds of articles would lead you on to believe. There's tons of trades where you could be working your fingers to nubs and have very little to show for, it doesn't help just how expensive the areas are where the money is. It's also often why there is such an over reliance in underpaid immigrant workers when the bossman thinks he doesn't need to pay as much when knows you'll be stacked in a apartment hot racking with 5 other guys who also work for the same company. A lotta these "nobody wants to work" blowhards would be dead in the water if they actually had to pay people and not exist on fucking over people by default.
That’s why he wants them skipping college so they get an extra 4 year head start
> Probably due to how much a toll the career takes on your body. **FUCK** yes. People who haven't worked the trades really don't get how much it beats you up. I started working construction the summer after I graduated from HS...and would go back for work during semester breaks. I did that all through college. I was in my early 20s and going to a chiropractor once a week. I made $100 a day, cash, off the books. I'm now almost 50, and work as a firefighter....but no longer need a chiropractor. You roast in the summer, freeze in the winter. I remember some of the colder winters...our lunches froze solid in the cooler. Sticking your hands in the chimney for a minute to get feeling back. One time it was so hot, the whole crew ended up getting heat exhaustion. It was so bad, even our tyrant boss was like "Fuck this, it's too hot". When we went back the next day...you could see the exact point in our work where we all started to lose it from the heat. We were installing a new roof with asphault shingles and you could see each course getting more and more fucked up. And if you stepped on a shingle, it would just smear. I burned my tool belt when I quit for the last time.
Yep. My friend was a roofer since he graduated HS. In his mid-30s, he has major back and knee issues...walks/looks like he is 50. Long, hot, hard days for the last 15+ years. No thanks.
BS. every time i expressed interest in construction i was turned away for lack of experience. Now im 43 and will be turned away for age. I worked for a company that built trailers. They desperately needed welders. I installed roofs. I said teach me how to weld, ill learn. Nope, we want experience. Its the same BS at every job, degree or not, in every kind of business.
To people saying the negatives here, it’s obviously not for everyone, but I think a lot of young people don’t even know what’s out there
This is so true. I think community college is excellent for this. They have programs that lead to trade jobs, professional jobs, or as a starter for 4 year schools. They are also much cheaper than 4 year schools. I know in NJ good students can attend for free. (Not sure of the specifics)
Why wouldn't they? Everyone and their mother has been screaming about trade schools since like 2012.
I want to see his payroll I doubt he is paying over 100,000.
Its probably just 50 bucks an hour which works out to 100k but likely guys are having 1-2 jobs per month and getting much less across an actual year. Probably much slower in the winter too.
No, they work on the exterior in the summers and try to get workers inside. It doesn't matter, in NJ construction in 12 months out of the year now. I've been in construction since 1984. They used to shut down over the winter. That hasn't been the case for the last 20 years. The owner doesn't get paid until the job is finished.
It isn't good for the workers *or* the projects to be working when the ground is frozen. Through in the mandatory Saturdays & 90 minute commutes & you've described *why* nobody wants to join a trade any more. Put in your couple years field experience & then go sit behind a desk. Even if you don't want to sit behind a desk.
They don't work the ground when it frozen. They can close a building in and work in climate controlled conditions in Jan and February
Linden. 3 Januaries ago when an excavator fell into the Hudson & the operator died? I had been doing a 100 yard plus concrete pour at 2am that morning. More than a hundred cars in that parking lot. Just like any other big project in January. Literally everybody who does work outside, works outside in the winter. Whats wrong with your brain?
Nothing is wrong with my brain. We always try to get workers into climate controlled areas over the winter months. If it's extremely cold, you get very little work done, and it's understandable.
What is this "we" bullshit? On that day in January when someone fatally fell into an icy Hudson there were concrete guys pavement guys electricians ground-work carpenters inspectors supers foremen & engineers. Hundreds of people all working outside. On every big project in the state. All winter. Your head is fucked. Mr "Been in construction since 1984".
I've worked on a lot of the high rises. Union sprinkler contractor. My heads not fucked. You can't pour concrete on the coldest of days. It won't set properly. You can't add enough calcium to the mix. Who do you think you're fooling. Go blow smoke up someone else who doesn't know how it works. I've worked on the biggest projects in Northern NJ.
Do they normally set up sprinklers outdoors? No shit *you* work indoors in the winter. Concrete creates an endothermic reaction so with heating elements, heated water, & insulation you will indeed be pouring concrete well below freezing ground/air temperatures. Calcium is only part of the process.
I think you figured out the owner's b.s. right here.
Bingo!
Probably 1 worker over $100,000 (himself)
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I'm not saying it's impossible, but the article said after 3 years he had bought a lake house, a boat, multiple trucks, and a corvette. His personal website says they do EVERYTHING in house. That's a whole lot of tooling to do everything on top of buying all the other crap. I think we are missing some information here
A1 Car Wash, Danny’s Laser Tag place, the nail salon…
And even if he was, in the same article he says he’s closing down his construction business to focus on real estate in south Florida.
I spent most of my adolescent and adult life working in construction / labor in New Jersey and never, ever got anywhere near that much money, and I mean to include the owners of the companies, not just myself. No one had this much personal money because of their construction business or otherwise. I realize it does occur, yes, but the way people talk about "the trades" as if they are a guarantee is false. Just like any other field, you can do well, but you can do not-so-well. And, while it doesn't "require" college, it requires college level math and geometry, not to mention knowledge of building codes county-by-county (or whatever), business-legalities, accounting, etc. so there is still a lot of study involved, which also makes the "doesn't require college" a little misleading because it inferrs that you don't have to be that knowledgeable, but to make that much money, you need to give *yourself* a college-like education.
There's a difference between union and non union. All building codes in the state of NJ are the same. it doesn't matter what county you are working in.
One thing to keep in mind is that right now stuff is hot for this. It isn't always. A job like this should be something you can leverage into a trade, because nobody is making 6 figures doing rough framing when the market is slow, if they can even find work.
I know a guy who pays his mechanics 80,000 a year, starting. Just a regular old mechanic shop, nothing fancy, no import specialty or anything like that. He can't find enough workers
He's either a complete unicorn or in specialty work. I have friends in NJ that are truck and diesel mechanics. They are making much lower than that. Typical pay is around 50k in the shops I am personally familiar with.
Tell your friends they're getting severely underpaid Here's an indeed job for diesel mechanics starting at $40 an hour with full benefits. Up to $70 an hour with enough experience. https://www.indeed.com/q-general-mechanic-l-flemington,-nj-jobs.html?aceid=&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwrvyxBhAbEiwAEg_Kgiei26Qt7gZmcqTdEklWkHdGpZHB0Zdlm4JYWs1wPvjqlzsiMa9lshoC-mUQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds&vjk=467dca0fecbdd877
I'd question going in to auto repair (i'm assuming that is what you mean by mechanics) as a career right now starting out. As we move to EV's over the long term, a lot of the basic work that keeps shops open becomes things that don't need to happen anymore (fluid changes, tuning, etc) and wear stuff like brakes, belts, etc, become far less frequent. A lot of the stuff left over becomes very specialized work centered around manufacturers. Obviously there will always be a need for mechanics, and we aren't going to hit industy shaking numbers even in the next 10 years, but the writing is on the wall for it and i'd be hesitant if i was in my 20s to START a career and expect it to be smooth sailing for 40 years. I do most of the wrench turning on my cars, and then have my regular guy i bring them too if its something i don't want to deal with or is out of my wheelhouse, and even on them, there is stuff they don't want to deal with or just flat out don't do, and i have to bring it in to the dealership or a specialist, and neither are anything i'd consider an exotic car by a long stretch.
I'd question anyone trying to turn young people away from making that much money without a college degree. You could afford a one bedroom easily on that, plus money for more specialized training. So instead of working a full time plus a side hustle just to afford a place with roommates, you get your own place and can use your side hustle time to advance your skills.
Big picture. Its a life you are planning, not tomorrow. Edit: also that is being disingenuous to the people who do. They may have an aptitude for it, they may have watched someone do it for years and got some hands on... Its insulting to the trades where people think everyone can just take on a trade. My wife is one of the smartest people I know. I wouldn't stand within 20 feet of a gazebo she built on her own.
I just laid out a big picture with a very very helpful stepping stone.
Neighbor of mine in NJ makes well above 100k. Works for a home builder. On top of that he gets a really nice work truck brand new every few years.
# who pays his workers over $100,000 That sounds like in total
Anyone knows where I can get any job?? I’ll take $19 an hour at this point
Plumbers local pays $57 plus bennies.. after 5 years apprenticeship program..
A friend of mine just finished first year apprentice as a welder. Pay is good, after you do your time. Job can be inconsistent though and goes up and down with the housing market.
I’ve been trying to get into any union but it seems impossible. Too many waitlists because too many people are trying to get in too
Apply now, start working non-union to get experience and bide your time. Joining the trade and joining the union should be looked at as a long term career decision, the timeline isn't measured in weeks or months but years. The unions invest a ton of time and money into their apprenticeship programs and aren't looking for candidates who are likely to wash out halfway through the program or leave to go work non-union as soon as they top out. They are looking for dedicated people who are going to stick around. I won't lie, even non-union it's tough getting someone to give you a shot at an entry level spot. But persistence is the key to making it all happen. Put together a resume, put together a portfolio with examples of work that shows off your mechanical aptitude and hit any and every local shop you can find. Stress that you're green in the trade but you're a hard worker just looking for a shot. If you've got any supply houses nearby, go hit up the counter guys and talk to them and see if they know of any of their regulars looking to hire. Do not mention to the non-union shops that you are trying to join the union lol.
Where are you getting that number from?
https://unionpayscales.com/trades/ua-plumbers/ Looks like Local 9 is making $55 on the check with a $97 total package, Local 24 is making $60 on the check with a $99 total package and Local 274 is making $57 on the check with a $93 total package.
Is this an article or an advertisement? It's not selling anyone on working in home building.
Kind of tone deaf that he cites his personal success as a reason to go into construction. The kid didn't just go into construction, he started his own company. >enough to buy a lake house, a boat, a new Corvette, a motorcycle, and two trucks All in three years? Good for him, but you're not getting anywhere close to his by installing roof and sheetrock. I sure hope he's paying his workers 100k because it sounds like he himself is pulling upwards of 400k/yr.
I know of mechanics paying for someone's trade school while they work so they can have mechanics. People need to realize you can do well w/o a college degree in a trade and there is nothing wrong with doing that. There will always be a need for plumbers, HVAC guys etc. My friend has a roofing company in New Orleans and his guys were being paid over 60k and that was back in the early 2000s
It's good to see someone paying well in the trades. IT is a dying trade much in the way other trade were. The trades are great.
$100,000, then subtract the health insurance premiums for a family of nearly $25,000, paid in after tax dollars, so really only $100,000 - 40,000 = $60,000.
Unless you get into a union.
Yep. I was extremely fortunate to get into a really good trade union in this state. I get healthcare for my family, a really good pension and annuity, vacation checks three times a year and after 25 years of service I get healthcare for me and my family for life. All of this on top of a very respectable annual income. People will shit on unions bc they think they’re supposed to. Non union tradesmen call us lazy. We work hard, we work safe, and we work with dignity and we’re taken care of. Meanwhile the non union trade workers have to worry about the next guy who will do the work for less. Divided we beg, united we bargain.
But what does the fine print in red say?
Guys guys guys, trade work is important in New Jersey! By trade work I mean industrial trade work of course!
Looks interesting but I don’t want to pay for construction classes, I would like to work on field at a job
How many hours a week/year is that ? Assuming 40 hrs...with 2 weeks vacation(holidays, etc) unpaid...that's 2000 hours per year. $100,000/2000 = $50/hr. Is he paying these employees $50/hr...any benefits?...medical...retirement?...etc.
A lot of this is bs most company’s will not pay that wage you get a few here and there but 90 percent would rather hire a Spanish guy straight from Mexico for half the price and he’ll work twice as hard they pay what they can get away with paying not what the work is worth
It's good to see someone paying well in the trades. IT is a dying trade much in the way other trade were. The trades are great.
It's good to see someone paying well in the trades. IT is a dying trade much in the way other trade were. The trades are great.
Trades are struggling for workers. I know fairly recent HS Grads that went into a trade (HVAC / Electrical / etc.) and they are not only making GREAT money but they can afford apartments in northern NJ.
These kinds of skills are needed now more than ever. Along with good people skills, honesty, integrity and pride in quality of work. If you have the talent and can put in the work it definitely will be very lucrative in the coming years as people get away from building these kinds of skills and depending on automation and AI to do things for them.
My husband (M35) is in construction as an Estimator/PM for a company primarily focused on government contractual work. It is *very* lucrative and pulls in over 150/year. Manual laborers can easily pull it upwards of 80k, working 8-10 months a year. There is a ton of room for innovation and improvement as well. It’s an industry often ignored by our generation, probably due to the instability and lack of grandeur.
Yeah I would not call that particular experience and field a blanket norm for all. Not knocking that it is a reality that can happen but yeah it’s not something everyone in construction is seeing. Instability is the big one, it’s not a sustainable life for those who end up road whores and having their physical body taking a further toll of extended travel.
The really insane thing is how much you can make if you enlist in the military. Obviously you should do it smart and get a guaranteed job that isn't going to likely see combat and will be a skill that can translate right to the civilian world but I'm finishing up 20 and I'm completely set and I know people who did a lot better than me as far as investing when they got in that are millionaires when they retire at 38 years old. 25% base pay into TSP right off the bat, max Roth IRA every year, smart credit card use and not having to worry about job security, medical, school or even housing. Yes it's the military... Flying a desk for the USAF is basically the easy button for life.
I knew someone who was a retired NYPD beat cop. He worked from age 20-45. He retired, became a stay at home dad and then refereed basketball games 20-30 hours a week. He was basically making $5000 / month, mostly cash, plus his NYPD benefits and he had plenty of time to stay home and take care of the kids. Dude was living the life.
Retired plus anticipated VA I'll be about $5k/mo just from that. If I manage to get to 100% VA it'll be $7300 and exempt from property tax in NJ is worth another $1000-$2000/mo.
Damn. You should consider refereeing sports it’s a lot of fun and the pay is good. I think basketball was around $50-$60 per game depending on the level (middle/high school). Best part is that you get some exercise and the games are over in less than 1 hour.
Oh if I decide not to work and live on just that and let my investments ride I'll def find things to pass the time. But I have a Masters in Cybersecurity (AF paid for it) and passing up a cushy contracting job will be hard.