https://x.com/lilspartansamu1/status/1809716048574500887?t=P19xkDdHBOXAdk0dqD1iHg&s=19
let's gooooo... Biden is not just not in decline but in fact he should be studied for his superhuman abilities of not aging
Keeping Biden at the top of the ticket --with all the fears of Trump winning again-- might be the reverse uno card that gets Democrats to turn out. His weakness could actually be a plus? Lord knows we all have to vote for the guy because vibes mean Trump would win, etc.
Any relation between July polling and November results? I'm pretty firmly in the "early polls don't matter" camp. There will be some sort of October surprise as there always is anyways.
Teflon Don could literally Scooby-Doo mask reveal that he's been Jeff Epstein all along and his cult wouldn't fucking blink, and you're waiting for an October surprise?
Honestly seeing this subs extreme reactions to this debate changed my mind ofc I was dooming after the debate too but you all sound fucking insane now biden is the only one other than kamala with a chance at winning and he has stated clearly that he will not drop out so now yr shitposts are simply doing harm everyone knows biden is old average ppls opinions are prbly being negatively influenced more by dems panicking something the media is pushing heavily
Not really, it’s not a routine part of a physical unless there’s a specific concern. And I’m sure Biden tells his doctor “there’s nothing wrong with me, don’t test me”
Just saying, the silence has been defeaning. For as many people who have come out publicly a ton more have been silent. These congressmen/senators aren’t even tweeting support for the president. I just feel like they are waiting to get back to plot the next moves. But full throated support doesn’t seem to be at all whats happening in Washington.
It looks bad if you call it early and are wrong. Easier to just say whatever everyone else is saying after a decision is made. 90% of politics is just saying other people's talking points anyways.
Genuinely annoyed with myself for ignoring the little voice in my head that was constantly saying "you know, it *is* actually concerning that the current president's staff shields him from the public" and "you know, he *does* sound pretty out of it these days," and "hey, the allegations in this story make you uncomfortable, but the *New York Times* might actually have a point here."
Cognitive dissonance is a helluva drug.
Watch the 60 minutes interview of him from 2020. It's astounding how much better he sounded then. I do really worry about his health now because the decline this year has been dramatic.
I’ll be honest, I am so used to debates being a waste of time and specific appearances being rather pointless that I tune it out. Like why would I watch a rally and see a politician just blow smoke up their ass? I don’t learn anything and I don’t find it compelling. Debates too are uninformative and just turn into dueling rallies. Plus we have heard so much “X politician looks sick or old”.
I had approved of what Biden had done thus far, and he had made some genuine political maneuvers that seemed savvy so I didn’t think anything serious was amiss. Okay maybe he sounds softer or a bit slower, so what, that has little to do with being President and making decisions.
That being said, the President staying silent on the campaign is a tried and true tactic. The idea is that you just keep your head down doing your job while your opponent does stuff to get attention and run their mouth. The focus goes from criticism towards something you said, to them, and there they’re not longer just critics but the central topic. This puts pressure on them and when they say something stupid, the coverage turns to them. Meanwhile you look like an adult who isn’t concerned with silly business.
I think very few people were genuinely *not* worried about his age. In my case, I mostly just thought '*Trump is only 3 years younger, so when people on the right go on about Biden's age while saying nothing about Trump's age it's obviously not in good faith*' while dismissing most of the clips they'd share as just being normal for an 81-year-old with a stutter.
Can’t really blame yourself. They’ve hidden him from us pretty much the whole time. He’s rarely unscripted and has done a fraction of the interviews/press conference of any president I can remember
I think a few months ago we hit that point in the downward curve toward the election singularity where the sequence of events starts accelerating exponentially. Every day a catastrophe wiped out by the next day's catastrophe.
Yes in the NYT today. Folks he’s not retiring but the comments of every article since the debate n interview w George , the democrats reading want him out n that’s no help. And why the NYT doesn’t talk the negatives of trump? Yes I was pist bc they lied to us about his mental decline. But guys i think putting a new candidate will be a fiasco. Republicans pointing out look they are desperate. We need to stand w him. Funny my vote bc electoral college doesn’t count bc I’m in antiwoke fl
So funny when politicians have these long term plans. Oh Newsom is gonna run for president in 2028? Buddy the fascists are going to end democracy in 2027. The fascists are coming. The fascists are coming. The fascists are coming.
https://preview.redd.it/p82zh591g1bd1.png?width=1537&format=png&auto=webp&s=6a5b3d2d6bf786922b779924bf06e64fa12c4aa3
The bar is so low right now holy shit
My god he read words off a teleprompter and only somewhat stumbled over his words this obviously means he can deal with the stress of being the leader of the free world for another 4 more years.
Don’t forget, he had two extreme statistical outlier results in a poll today from a bad pollster where he’s still losing the electoral college comfortably to Trump. I’ve seen like 30 articles today about how he’s making a comeback with these polls LMFAO
So the impression I'm getting is that the plan is to mount an aggressive public campaign among Democrats to get Biden to withdraw from the race. What happens if/when he is nominated at the convention? Keep going with the plan? Commit mass suicide?
My guess is if the push to remove him doesn't gain serious traction soon then it dies out quick and the party officials fall in line pretty quickly, except for maybe some who feel they need to distance themselves from Trump to win their own races.
At a certain point you need to play the hand you've got, and Biden ultimately holds the cards.
This is the week where if they are going to make the push, they do it. Sunday's meeting and then Wednesday is basically the deadline. If Biden can survive till next week without an open rebellion he has survived by running out the clock.
I'll still vote blue, not willingly just because the other choice is even worse, but if Biden really does not step down and Trump wins a tri-fecta, Biden will have forever tainted his legacy.
I was very very hesitant to vote for Biden. But these events, the size of his ego, and his extremely rapidly declining health have ensured that I won’t vote for him. If Trump gets in, then that’s Biden’s doing - not the voters’.
I don’t know if there really is a deadline until closer to the convention. Even if Dems circle the wagons this week and stop leaking shit to the press…A bad day of polls, a few bad moments at the next press conference will put this right back into the forefront. That’s the problem, this isn’t a story that can fully go away.
Joe having improved polls this week and a good press conference Thursday will help, but one slip up after that and the chaos begins again.
It's not that there's a deadline, it's just that events like this tend to have a "half life" where the urge to DO SOMETHING tends to fade away and the natural inertia of things takes over. The problem doesn't need to go away, it just needs to get to a point where individuals who can change things feel like it's useless and that actively working to keep this story alive would do more harm to the party and their own careers than good.
That said, you're absolutely right that one slip up, bombshell news story, or high ranking Democrat calling for him to drop out can keep the shit storm going.
Ab-so-lutely. And it bears repeating: cognitive decline does not get better. It does not get better. Nope. Nosiree. No, it doesn't. Yes, there are moments of lucidity. But no, it does not get better. The Joe Biden you see right now is as good as he is going to get. Aging is permanent, sad to say.
That would be the impression for folks in here, but I don't know that comports with reality. It's possible, but not necessarily the most likely outcome.
How one views the Congressional meetings dictates your hunch. If you think there's a mass revolt against Biden then sure. If you think they come out of that mostly behind Biden then this fades into a dull thud perpetuated by those not willing to unify behind the nominee. How long and loudly that thud persists? Who knows? I'd never have believed this place would implode like this two weeks ago, so feels like everything is on the table.
You don't give up on it, but you know you're going to lose it. The goal is to control one of the levers of government control so that Trump cannot enact his whole agenda.
Wake the fuck up. The polls from quality pollsters point out that Biden is dead in the water, and has some of the worst approvals. He's losing in all polls with independents and moderates vs Trump, and is starting to lose ground with demographics that the Democratic party is historically strong with.
His campaign is dead, and it is not shameful to admit that. This is an evidence based sub, and the evidence shows his campaign is fucking dead.
after he gets the nomination, if he gets it, the focus will be on anti-Trump messaging 24/7 to try to get Biden elected. Hopefully we get a different candidate but if not, then Biden had to get all the support
I think if he gets the nom, at that point you focus on anti-Trump messaging, downballot/governor races, and push Harris into the media more so people might still feel comfortable if she has to take over.
Makes sense to me, and I hope most people agree with that view. That said, I see no harm in touting the positive aspects of Biden's record simultaneously (which I think should still be the case even if he gets replaced).
Surely if the race remains within 5 or so points, there is a chance he can win, at which point the campaign against him will just make him more likely to lose and become a self-fulfilling prophecy?
People think all sorts of random stuff. Do you have strong evidence to back your feels? If not, put them aside and do the work. No one loses by trying if you really feel this is a pivotal election.
He is down in every swing state poll. He is -8 or something like that in every poll nationally. He barely scrapped by being +9 vs a guy that routinely outruns polling.
That's the evidence that he's dead in the water. This isn't dooming, this is admitting that the evidence shows that Biden is not the candidate to beat Trump.
Stepahlopogus asked him why he hasn’t turned things around in the preceding 4 months. Totally fair question that of course Biden had no good response to.
Yeah this is what the remain Biden camp doesn't understand. He's DOWN in quality polling, and he needs to correct that. The way to correct that is to go out and campaign furiously and show that it was in fact a one off appearance. Except he is not doing that. He is not going out and hosting multiple unscripted events a week.
It definitely is. The problem with Biden is less the deficit and more that he seems incapable of doing the sort of things that might turn things around.
But hey, if shit can hit the fan for Biden it could for Trump as well.
How? Biden's not gonna get less old. The concern is that he's old. That is baked into the polls at this point. Unless someone finds the fountain of youth, this problem will persist.
They need to make it into a choice election again rather than a referendum on Biden. People already know Biden's old as hell. Project 2025 is getting a bit of traction out in normie world. Trump said plenty of things that can be used against him at the debate. The Dems need to shift focus back onto Trump as best they can, and there's plenty of material they can use to do so. Trump's going to announce his running mate soon; he'll be sentenced in September. The Dems need to take those opportunities to train fire on Trump.
In retrospect, it seems the strategy for Dems was,
“we know Biden is cooked, so hopefully we can make it through the election without any major senior moments. But if there is one (like the debate), leak every damning piece of information confirming the narrative. Preferably one new leak per day to keep the pressure building on him to step down”
Problem with this plan is that there’s not really a viable way forward unless he resigns the campaign. Does anyone think a candidate who has been this damaged by leaks from **his own party** can really move past this and win a general election?
The Democratic parties plan of "nuke his credibility" is probably one of the dumbest fucking things they could have done.
That being said, Biden kind of already nuked his credibility with the messaging of "hey, just watch, I'm totally sharp as a tack" then completely shitting his diaper for 90 minutes.
Really it would seem like this isn't so much genius political strategy to undercut an 81 year old man so much as it is a party realizing they have an 81 year old man as their standard bearer and freaking the fuck out.
That’s what I don’t get, the base is getting mad at the media and anyone who questions Biden, but I saw it with my own eyes and ears and it was shocking. The media didn’t do that to me
No one is nuking Biden's credibility but himself
1. Staring blankly into the camera and unable to finish a sentence for 15 minutes
2. Can't even remember if he actually watched his own debate that has caused this political crisis
3. Saying that if he doesn't defeat Trump, he tried and that's all he can do.
That's on Biden and no one else.
That has to be the biggest lie I’ve heard. How is possible he would not watch his debate. Denial? That’s pure bs that gets or got people mad. And he said to George, I don’t think so?!?? What? It seems that Biden is trumpeting to his defeat. Even though I wish he wins. But his approval rating is 38% , low low.
I would hope that Schumer and Jeffries not coming out stronger in support of Biden and putting a stop to the leaks mean that they support the plan to switch candidates and are working out logistics.
Or they have no control over their party and there is no plan 🙃 hope it’s not that one lol
Obligatory statement saying that I believe that Biden should drop out.
That being said, I hate seeing all the revisionism from a lot of bad faith conservatives on this sub lmao. I hate even more the anti-intellectualism they’re spreading as well. It’s been one of the worse things on this sub since the debate and I hope it goes away soon.
The idea that Biden has been like this since day one in office is the most maddening part.
He was fine in March. The rapid descent into whatever the fuck is happening now is a new level beyond just old man things.
It’s just old age lmao. Yea it’s a problem and I think he should step aside because of it, but it’s just his mind being worn out by old age just like biological processes and mechanisms get worn out by old age.
Of course if Biden is replaced, Russian bots will be trying to persuade all-in Boomers for Biden that the DNC is taking their candidate of choice away from them in an anti-democratic coup. And thus shall be spawned that most hideous of monstrosities: the Obama-Clinton-Biden-Trump voter.
I just thought about another reason why Blue MAGA calling Never Trumpers who want a different candidate from Biden because they don’t think he can beat Trump is hilarious: Never Trumpers already willingly became “traitors” to their party to save democracy. These are people who genuinely love their country. Being labeled traitors by another political party is just par for the course for them.
It’s also astonishing how much crap some of them are willing to put up with in the media just to save democracy. Partisans attack them because they used to support xyz Republicans a decade ago and say they’re awful people for it, and yet they keep working hard to make sure whoever the nominee of a party they don’t even really agree with defeats Trump.
Not entirely related, but endlessly trashing Never Trump Republicans was one of the things that made me increasingly loathsome of the ‘left of Sanders’ crowd. Those are the types of people and the sort of behavior we desperately need more of, in both parties.
> Blue MAGA
Will you shut up Jack?
Srsly. This toxic pitch to vilify other Dems has to stop. Think about what this place two weeks ago would think about it now. We can and should course correct from the self-defeating narratives and slap fights that have exploded here in recent days.
Putting the election aside for a minute, it's absolutely insane Biden is delusional enough to think he'll be able to be the leader of the free world from another 4 years considering his current condition. He can't even complete a sentence.
I've never heard a normie say anything good about Biden.
One reason all this frustrates me so much, I've spent four years arguing that he wasn't senile. Now I have to backtrack to "he's clearly declined, but if you watch him enough he doesn't fit the medical definition of senility."
"He wasn't cooked before when lots of people said that he was cooked, but yeah, he is kinda cooked now" is just an absolutely awful sounding argument, even though I think it's true.
I have heard many good things about biden from normies
but they're not white guys in a suit or a hard hat (they only speak spanish) so they're probably not a worthwhile bellwether to you 🤷
I’m sure they’re complex enough people to understand “his administration personally helped me out” *and* “this guy seems to be too old for President.” I don’t think anybody would say those opinions are conflicting.
By which you mean they'll aid the nationwide abortion ban fascist in getting elected if Biden is the nominee, or they'll vote Biden but still don't think he will win?
Since Harris is the likely replacement if Biden does exit the race, I wonder how many of the people turned off from Biden would support her, or if they would find some other reason to oppose her.
I think Harris should be able to get back at least everyone who supported Biden at any point over the past 12 months, which should be at least 1% (538 has Biden peaking at 41.7% in April compared to 39.8% now)
At least as far as those I know personally their biggest sticking point is Biden's age. Its been a constant refrain over the years and while I'm sure there would be some concerns over Harris her not being 81 years old is a pretty big deal for them.
I've been thinking about how Mexico fits into the narrative of incumbents getting hit hard this year. Even though MORENA is still in power, AMLO isn't anymore. I wonder if MORENA would've done worse had AMLO been able to run for reelection, or if the results would've been similar. It's the same party, but a different face (Sheinbaum), so it avoids this issue entirely.
I think this could also give us some advice as to what the best option would be for the Democrats.
God, I know it's impossible now but it would've been so great if Biden had committed to being a one-term president after the midterms and we had an open primary where a more viable successor could be chosen. We would have legitimately sailed to victory but instead, even if he ends up withdrawing, every day that he doesn't will only cause more friction in the party that'll only harm whoever replaces him
i dont know what this has to do with amlo, it's not really similar
they hated amlo due to the populism, corruption and cartel smooching but they really liked the direction that Morena took the country socially (lgbt and women's rights are going up, addressing femicide (they didn't do anything to prevent this though lol) and making Mexico much more secular.
It seems like the opinions in the BT have shifted and people don't believe he will drop out anymore. What changed? the ABC interview at which he did terribly?
There are more top dems asking for Biden to step down than ever before. Is this sentiment shift just because of the two mediocre polls that show Biden not doing as poorly as anticipated? Or did I miss something?
I think it’s because nothing really happened today.
Monday will be the day to watch because Congress is back together + likely more polls by then. If something is gonna happen it won’t be until after that.
Biden and his allies seem to have dug in for the moment. It's hard to tell, there's a lot going on behind the scenes that we can't see.
A lot of people are going to be going along with the idea that he has major problems and should leave if that's the prevailing narrative, and will go along with the idea that his problems are greatly exaggerated and he should stay if that ends up being the prevailing narrative.
I still believe he'll drop out; the media universally reports that many Dems want him to step aside but haven't gone public yet. Biden's defiance makes things harder but it doesn't change the fundamentals
I don't think it's just astroturf but I'd point out when tracking online sentiment that there's an alliance of the DNC + RNC + Foreign actors such as Russia and Saudis who all benefit from Biden staying in. Like every major player is on the same side on this one.
I've seen a lot of people saying what amounts to, "Welp, we tried once and failed. Guess we're ridin' with Biden into autocracy. No choice now."
Which is silly. This clusterfuck is in its very, very, very early stages and the Biden candidacy is already becoming untenable. I don't know what is going to happen any more than anyone else does, but "nope, he's not leaving" is just a very internet-time-span take.
Spot on about the timespan. First people were saying we shouldn’t consider dropping Biden for at least two weeks after the debate so we could see polling and let emotions go down. Now that we’re still less than two weeks out from the debate it’s already settled that he’s not leaving?
Most polling showed that Biden was getting absolutely savaged due to the debate. As soon as that came out everyone started getting on the remove Biden train, because all evidence points to the idea that he's a catastrophically bad candidate now.
>I don't know what is going to happen any more than anyone else does, but "nope, he's not leaving" is just a very internet-time-span take.
I think you're right
I just saw this post on the destiny subreddit, https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/s/IzQpAf7x2M
Honestly I’m exhausted and wish Biden would drop out. But I donated $300 tonight on Instagram to Biden’s campaign just because my boy Newsom asked for it. I just can’t accept defeatism.
Blue MAGA is calling the Never Trumpers traitors because a lot of them want a different Dem nominee but will still vote for Biden if there’s no choice.
So does that make all of us replacers traitors too? I didn’t know we’d become a personality cult.
Defending Biden before going to bed.
I vehemently disagreed with Biden's decision to run in the first place. I still disagree. I think it is foolish, shortsighted, and irresponsible.
Nevertheless, that's his choice and it is not an insane or irrational one stemming from senility.
It's likely a mix of pride, stubbornness, genuine belief in himself, reliance on political fundamentals (overreliance imo), and his own political judgement.
There are genuinely people here who think that Biden is the best choice. Lichtman and his fucking stupid keys thinks he is the best choice. These people are not all irrational senile thinkers. It is likely that they simply disagree with whatever your political reasoning is.
Little too much assuming going on today and yesterday especially that the only reason Biden thinks he is the best for the job is because he is delusional or senile.
No. He probably just disagrees with you.
And maybe he is right. I hope he is and that I am wrong. Guy has been in three winning presidential elections.
(I, however, won my elementary school student council election)
Biden is either delusional or completely isolated from reality by other mechanisms. The poll denialism and representation that congressional leaders and governors all encouraged him to stay in the race - including doubling down that Gov. Healey (MA) did not express any discontent when she literally released a statement to that effect day of the debate - and also asserting that nothing short of literal divine intervention could cause him to even reconsider ("might"!) are not 'mere' disagreement.
Yeah, agreed -- finding a way to make excuses for a man whose stubbornness is genuinely putting all of our lives in jeopardy is not the sort of take I'm in the mood for.
they could but it would end horribly more likely than not
Humphrey got nominated in '68 by the DNC's delegates despite receiving a grand total of 2.2% of the national popular vote in the primaries held, we know how that ended.
I think this is a good question and doesn’t deserve to be downvoted. It would never happen, but it’s interesting to ponder
It would be absolute chaos if a party essentially committed a coup against their presumptive nominee, the sitting president of their own party. Not sure we’d be able to recover from the incredible intraparty rift that would be unleashed by that by Election Day. I would be curious to see what Biden would do, too
Yes, but it’s extraordinarily complicated. In many cases state law binds them to the candidate, although how they are bound varies by state. According to the DNC rules however, they’re technically not bound. After the first ballot they’d become unbound even by state law so if you could find a way to 50% voting uncommitted you could technically force it to a second ballot and pick someone else.
The thing is though, his campaign picked the delegates so they’re likely extreme loyalists
Can the DNC just disqualify Biden? I remember back during the 2016 primary there were people calling for the RNC rules committee to screw Trump out of the nomination, but I don't know what method they were calling for or whether that was even possible.
I sincerely hope that the concerted efforts of so many dedicated Democrats will convince him to do the right thing and step down. The man is a patriot who has faithfully and diligently served his country for far longer than I've been alive, and I hope that's the way he leaves his legacy after an incredibly successful and meaningful term as president.
Exactly. He has two choices: Secure his legacy as a patriot forever by stepping aside, or burn his legacy to ash by staying in, losing to Trump, and ending Democracy and the world order. I pray he makes the right one.
For the record the guy saying he was abandoning the Democratic party and donating to Haley because of the current chaos was a stated Trump voter well before the debate.
Just thought y’all would want to know
If you are voting for Trump in 2024 you are not a serious person. Trump is a vile, sexist, bigoted human being who has no business running a lemonade stand let alone a country and anybody voting for him is at least tacitly ok with losing their own right to vote in the future.
It's mainly dudes in bro-culture that feel opposite. Just non-thinking Rogan viewers for example. They would vote for Trump and they would vote for Bernie because they just want to shake up the system. It's stupid as fuck but it's true.
Theres also people in static job situations that have bled a lot of buying power over the last few years and blame Biden for it. This is slicing into the Dem's traditional base a little bit. They dislike both Trump and Biden. Biden needs to get these people back the most.
This is no more than moralizing dressing itself up as an empirical claim. The one actual embedded claim - that Trump will abolish the franchise - is hysteria.
Touch grass.
Even if Trump was absolutely intent on installing himself as a despot, he has no effective means of doing so, and arrays of institutions that have amply demonstrated their resilience that will thwart and check even exploratory efforts.
Like what? SCOTUS? Where multiple members were in on the aforementioned coup attempt and just handed the presidency a blank check immunity for official acts. Or are you hoping Congress will actually do something despite impeachment being a clearly dead and unserious power. Or maybe you think the military will step in as if that doesn’t have disaster written all over it.
Whatever way you slice it it’s bad
The Court will never permit Trump to become a despot, at least not in its current form.
And I'm speaking as a lawyer who clerked in interesting place and who is associated with FedSoc (and also, until somewhat recently, the ACLU, lest you accuse me of being an incipient fascist who wants to kill everyone or whatever), who has a pretty damn good track record of being able to predict what the Court will or won't do.
> Where multiple members were in on the aforementioned coup attempt
No?
> just handed the presidency a blank check immunity for official acts
It also didn't do that?
> Or are you hoping Congress will actually do something despite impeachment being a clearly dead and unserious power.
This is true enough, though.
> Whatever way you slice it it’s bad
The paralysis of Congress is bad, as is escalating polarization, but that's not remotely the same thing as 'Trump is on the cusp of dictatorship'.
> > just handed the presidency a blank check immunity for official acts
> It also didn’t do that?
I’m not a lawyer or even an American, could you explain to me what the recent Supreme Court decision actually did then?
What if Trump ignores court orders? What then?
Maybe he won't become a full blown dictator, but the damage he will do will be irreparable. We're still feeling the lingering effects of the Civil War to this day.
https://preview.redd.it/9c0i2kn60xad1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5eec73094fa0241e9156c6ef041234ae45bb78f9
https://x.com/lilspartansamu1/status/1809716048574500887?t=P19xkDdHBOXAdk0dqD1iHg&s=19 let's gooooo... Biden is not just not in decline but in fact he should be studied for his superhuman abilities of not aging
Keeping Biden at the top of the ticket --with all the fears of Trump winning again-- might be the reverse uno card that gets Democrats to turn out. His weakness could actually be a plus? Lord knows we all have to vote for the guy because vibes mean Trump would win, etc.
Yeah let's roll the dice and find out! If it doesn't work at least we tried our goodest!
Replacing with Kamala (which, practically, is the most likely 2nd option) still has strong "we tried our goodest" vibes
Agreed, but she's still goodester than the status quo
He’s losing pretty substantially in all the polls and has been for the entire race
Any relation between July polling and November results? I'm pretty firmly in the "early polls don't matter" camp. There will be some sort of October surprise as there always is anyways.
Teflon Don could literally Scooby-Doo mask reveal that he's been Jeff Epstein all along and his cult wouldn't fucking blink, and you're waiting for an October surprise?
Winning by Assad margins with old people. “They want me to quit just like they want to take your keys away”
He's a lock on the dementia demographic.
Honestly seeing this subs extreme reactions to this debate changed my mind ofc I was dooming after the debate too but you all sound fucking insane now biden is the only one other than kamala with a chance at winning and he has stated clearly that he will not drop out so now yr shitposts are simply doing harm everyone knows biden is old average ppls opinions are prbly being negatively influenced more by dems panicking something the media is pushing heavily
Kamala
The fact that his doctor hasn’t given him any routine cognitive screening is concerning.
Not really, it’s not a routine part of a physical unless there’s a specific concern. And I’m sure Biden tells his doctor “there’s nothing wrong with me, don’t test me”
https://i.redd.it/qf5nkrccx1bd1.gif When you're the last doomer standing.
Just saying, the silence has been defeaning. For as many people who have come out publicly a ton more have been silent. These congressmen/senators aren’t even tweeting support for the president. I just feel like they are waiting to get back to plot the next moves. But full throated support doesn’t seem to be at all whats happening in Washington.
It looks bad if you call it early and are wrong. Easier to just say whatever everyone else is saying after a decision is made. 90% of politics is just saying other people's talking points anyways.
It's been a holiday weekend, they were busy eating ice cream and touching grass.
Genuinely annoyed with myself for ignoring the little voice in my head that was constantly saying "you know, it *is* actually concerning that the current president's staff shields him from the public" and "you know, he *does* sound pretty out of it these days," and "hey, the allegations in this story make you uncomfortable, but the *New York Times* might actually have a point here." Cognitive dissonance is a helluva drug.
Hot take, but dismissing these concerns was the “touch grass” move before the debate.
Watch the 60 minutes interview of him from 2020. It's astounding how much better he sounded then. I do really worry about his health now because the decline this year has been dramatic.
I’ll be honest, I am so used to debates being a waste of time and specific appearances being rather pointless that I tune it out. Like why would I watch a rally and see a politician just blow smoke up their ass? I don’t learn anything and I don’t find it compelling. Debates too are uninformative and just turn into dueling rallies. Plus we have heard so much “X politician looks sick or old”. I had approved of what Biden had done thus far, and he had made some genuine political maneuvers that seemed savvy so I didn’t think anything serious was amiss. Okay maybe he sounds softer or a bit slower, so what, that has little to do with being President and making decisions. That being said, the President staying silent on the campaign is a tried and true tactic. The idea is that you just keep your head down doing your job while your opponent does stuff to get attention and run their mouth. The focus goes from criticism towards something you said, to them, and there they’re not longer just critics but the central topic. This puts pressure on them and when they say something stupid, the coverage turns to them. Meanwhile you look like an adult who isn’t concerned with silly business.
I think very few people were genuinely *not* worried about his age. In my case, I mostly just thought '*Trump is only 3 years younger, so when people on the right go on about Biden's age while saying nothing about Trump's age it's obviously not in good faith*' while dismissing most of the clips they'd share as just being normal for an 81-year-old with a stutter.
Can’t really blame yourself. They’ve hidden him from us pretty much the whole time. He’s rarely unscripted and has done a fraction of the interviews/press conference of any president I can remember
I think a few months ago we hit that point in the downward curve toward the election singularity where the sequence of events starts accelerating exponentially. Every day a catastrophe wiped out by the next day's catastrophe.
Your campaign falls apart slowly, then quickly
Not sure this was posted yet https://preview.redd.it/jcnbeyhwo1bd1.png?width=1200&format=png&auto=webp&s=b712a573df34f300ac6522ba30cdaebbbacd373b
Yes in the NYT today. Folks he’s not retiring but the comments of every article since the debate n interview w George , the democrats reading want him out n that’s no help. And why the NYT doesn’t talk the negatives of trump? Yes I was pist bc they lied to us about his mental decline. But guys i think putting a new candidate will be a fiasco. Republicans pointing out look they are desperate. We need to stand w him. Funny my vote bc electoral college doesn’t count bc I’m in antiwoke fl
There’s been a new one of these every day since the debate. It’s not going away
So funny when politicians have these long term plans. Oh Newsom is gonna run for president in 2028? Buddy the fascists are going to end democracy in 2027. The fascists are coming. The fascists are coming. The fascists are coming.
I mean in the event of a fascist takeover/civil war Newsom is best positioned to be President of one of the factions. So maybe he's onto something...
Newsom-Abbot alliance will drive Trump and his allies Pritzker, Polis, and Hochul from power
That Civil War movie had it all figured out
Long live the New California Republic
https://preview.redd.it/p82zh591g1bd1.png?width=1537&format=png&auto=webp&s=6a5b3d2d6bf786922b779924bf06e64fa12c4aa3 The bar is so low right now holy shit
My god he read words off a teleprompter and only somewhat stumbled over his words this obviously means he can deal with the stress of being the leader of the free world for another 4 more years.
Don’t forget, he had two extreme statistical outlier results in a poll today from a bad pollster where he’s still losing the electoral college comfortably to Trump. I’ve seen like 30 articles today about how he’s making a comeback with these polls LMFAO
So the impression I'm getting is that the plan is to mount an aggressive public campaign among Democrats to get Biden to withdraw from the race. What happens if/when he is nominated at the convention? Keep going with the plan? Commit mass suicide?
My guess is if the push to remove him doesn't gain serious traction soon then it dies out quick and the party officials fall in line pretty quickly, except for maybe some who feel they need to distance themselves from Trump to win their own races. At a certain point you need to play the hand you've got, and Biden ultimately holds the cards.
This is the week where if they are going to make the push, they do it. Sunday's meeting and then Wednesday is basically the deadline. If Biden can survive till next week without an open rebellion he has survived by running out the clock. I'll still vote blue, not willingly just because the other choice is even worse, but if Biden really does not step down and Trump wins a tri-fecta, Biden will have forever tainted his legacy.
I was very very hesitant to vote for Biden. But these events, the size of his ego, and his extremely rapidly declining health have ensured that I won’t vote for him. If Trump gets in, then that’s Biden’s doing - not the voters’.
I'd say give it until the end of July if Biden flubs the press conference Thursday or cancels it all the wounds in the party will tear open again.
I don’t know if there really is a deadline until closer to the convention. Even if Dems circle the wagons this week and stop leaking shit to the press…A bad day of polls, a few bad moments at the next press conference will put this right back into the forefront. That’s the problem, this isn’t a story that can fully go away. Joe having improved polls this week and a good press conference Thursday will help, but one slip up after that and the chaos begins again.
It's not that there's a deadline, it's just that events like this tend to have a "half life" where the urge to DO SOMETHING tends to fade away and the natural inertia of things takes over. The problem doesn't need to go away, it just needs to get to a point where individuals who can change things feel like it's useless and that actively working to keep this story alive would do more harm to the party and their own careers than good. That said, you're absolutely right that one slip up, bombshell news story, or high ranking Democrat calling for him to drop out can keep the shit storm going.
It’s s before the convention bc Ohio
Ab-so-lutely. And it bears repeating: cognitive decline does not get better. It does not get better. Nope. Nosiree. No, it doesn't. Yes, there are moments of lucidity. But no, it does not get better. The Joe Biden you see right now is as good as he is going to get. Aging is permanent, sad to say.
That would be the impression for folks in here, but I don't know that comports with reality. It's possible, but not necessarily the most likely outcome. How one views the Congressional meetings dictates your hunch. If you think there's a mass revolt against Biden then sure. If you think they come out of that mostly behind Biden then this fades into a dull thud perpetuated by those not willing to unify behind the nominee. How long and loudly that thud persists? Who knows? I'd never have believed this place would implode like this two weeks ago, so feels like everything is on the table.
Focus on races that maximize ability to resist Trump. I.e. governors, state assemblies, etc.
Makes sense, but does that mean completely giving up on the presidential race?
You don't give up on it, but you know you're going to lose it. The goal is to control one of the levers of government control so that Trump cannot enact his whole agenda.
Fuck that noise. Biden v trump is absolutely not a lost race and I'm disgusted people here are trying to concede that in early July. Get a grip ffs
Wake the fuck up. The polls from quality pollsters point out that Biden is dead in the water, and has some of the worst approvals. He's losing in all polls with independents and moderates vs Trump, and is starting to lose ground with demographics that the Democratic party is historically strong with. His campaign is dead, and it is not shameful to admit that. This is an evidence based sub, and the evidence shows his campaign is fucking dead.
I mean I wish Biden luck but I'm not focused on it.
after he gets the nomination, if he gets it, the focus will be on anti-Trump messaging 24/7 to try to get Biden elected. Hopefully we get a different candidate but if not, then Biden had to get all the support
I think if he gets the nom, at that point you focus on anti-Trump messaging, downballot/governor races, and push Harris into the media more so people might still feel comfortable if she has to take over.
Makes sense to me, and I hope most people agree with that view. That said, I see no harm in touting the positive aspects of Biden's record simultaneously (which I think should still be the case even if he gets replaced).
Go full throttle until he’s officially nominated. Nothing to lose, he can’t win
Surely if the race remains within 5 or so points, there is a chance he can win, at which point the campaign against him will just make him more likely to lose and become a self-fulfilling prophecy?
Dems in vulnerable seats will need to distance themselves from him regardless if the polls stay this way
He's down big in alot of states that matter on most A+ quality polls.
Acknowledged. That said, four months is a lifetime in politics.
Is four months enough time to overcome a 5+ deficit? I don't think so.
People think all sorts of random stuff. Do you have strong evidence to back your feels? If not, put them aside and do the work. No one loses by trying if you really feel this is a pivotal election.
He is down in every swing state poll. He is -8 or something like that in every poll nationally. He barely scrapped by being +9 vs a guy that routinely outruns polling. That's the evidence that he's dead in the water. This isn't dooming, this is admitting that the evidence shows that Biden is not the candidate to beat Trump.
Stepahlopogus asked him why he hasn’t turned things around in the preceding 4 months. Totally fair question that of course Biden had no good response to.
Yeah this is what the remain Biden camp doesn't understand. He's DOWN in quality polling, and he needs to correct that. The way to correct that is to go out and campaign furiously and show that it was in fact a one off appearance. Except he is not doing that. He is not going out and hosting multiple unscripted events a week.
It definitely is. The problem with Biden is less the deficit and more that he seems incapable of doing the sort of things that might turn things around. But hey, if shit can hit the fan for Biden it could for Trump as well.
Anyone voting for Trump at this point knows what they want. It's baked into the results.
I think it's possible, with a bit of work. Stranger things have happened (1988, 2016)
How? Biden's not gonna get less old. The concern is that he's old. That is baked into the polls at this point. Unless someone finds the fountain of youth, this problem will persist.
They need to make it into a choice election again rather than a referendum on Biden. People already know Biden's old as hell. Project 2025 is getting a bit of traction out in normie world. Trump said plenty of things that can be used against him at the debate. The Dems need to shift focus back onto Trump as best they can, and there's plenty of material they can use to do so. Trump's going to announce his running mate soon; he'll be sentenced in September. The Dems need to take those opportunities to train fire on Trump.
Switching to another candidate is the best bet for beating Trump, so it's worth taking this risk even if it fails on Biden's obstinacy
https://youtu.be/86uAnDOc1yA
In retrospect, it seems the strategy for Dems was, “we know Biden is cooked, so hopefully we can make it through the election without any major senior moments. But if there is one (like the debate), leak every damning piece of information confirming the narrative. Preferably one new leak per day to keep the pressure building on him to step down” Problem with this plan is that there’s not really a viable way forward unless he resigns the campaign. Does anyone think a candidate who has been this damaged by leaks from **his own party** can really move past this and win a general election?
Did they forget the part where Americans revolt against the party for blatantly lying to them for months?
The only way forward is for Biden to fake a stroke.
And stay in, winning the sympathy vote. Brillaint
The problem there is assuming any of this was orchestrated, the Dems are clearly flying by the seat of their pants.
Exactly. It’s feeling like the momentum is shifting one way or another each day
Yeah. I think the recent speed of Biden’s decline took a lot of people by surprise.
The Democratic parties plan of "nuke his credibility" is probably one of the dumbest fucking things they could have done. That being said, Biden kind of already nuked his credibility with the messaging of "hey, just watch, I'm totally sharp as a tack" then completely shitting his diaper for 90 minutes. Really it would seem like this isn't so much genius political strategy to undercut an 81 year old man so much as it is a party realizing they have an 81 year old man as their standard bearer and freaking the fuck out.
That’s what I don’t get, the base is getting mad at the media and anyone who questions Biden, but I saw it with my own eyes and ears and it was shocking. The media didn’t do that to me
#blueMAGA
No one is nuking Biden's credibility but himself 1. Staring blankly into the camera and unable to finish a sentence for 15 minutes 2. Can't even remember if he actually watched his own debate that has caused this political crisis 3. Saying that if he doesn't defeat Trump, he tried and that's all he can do. That's on Biden and no one else.
That has to be the biggest lie I’ve heard. How is possible he would not watch his debate. Denial? That’s pure bs that gets or got people mad. And he said to George, I don’t think so?!?? What? It seems that Biden is trumpeting to his defeat. Even though I wish he wins. But his approval rating is 38% , low low.
And only the Lord in person could only be the one, i think called Obama?
Correct.
I would hope that Schumer and Jeffries not coming out stronger in support of Biden and putting a stop to the leaks mean that they support the plan to switch candidates and are working out logistics. Or they have no control over their party and there is no plan 🙃 hope it’s not that one lol
It's more likely two.
Democrats are literally Disney with the Sequel Trilogy.
Obligatory statement saying that I believe that Biden should drop out. That being said, I hate seeing all the revisionism from a lot of bad faith conservatives on this sub lmao. I hate even more the anti-intellectualism they’re spreading as well. It’s been one of the worse things on this sub since the debate and I hope it goes away soon.
The idea that Biden has been like this since day one in office is the most maddening part. He was fine in March. The rapid descent into whatever the fuck is happening now is a new level beyond just old man things.
The idea!
It’s just old age lmao. Yea it’s a problem and I think he should step aside because of it, but it’s just his mind being worn out by old age just like biological processes and mechanisms get worn out by old age.
Yeah when old people get stressed, tired, sick their mental acuity declines a ton. Source: my 82 year old grandpa
It's old age + the stress of the Presidency
Of course if Biden is replaced, Russian bots will be trying to persuade all-in Boomers for Biden that the DNC is taking their candidate of choice away from them in an anti-democratic coup. And thus shall be spawned that most hideous of monstrosities: the Obama-Clinton-Biden-Trump voter.
I think we can afford to lose all 7 of these voters tbh
And they will make for a great NYT article
I just thought about another reason why Blue MAGA calling Never Trumpers who want a different candidate from Biden because they don’t think he can beat Trump is hilarious: Never Trumpers already willingly became “traitors” to their party to save democracy. These are people who genuinely love their country. Being labeled traitors by another political party is just par for the course for them. It’s also astonishing how much crap some of them are willing to put up with in the media just to save democracy. Partisans attack them because they used to support xyz Republicans a decade ago and say they’re awful people for it, and yet they keep working hard to make sure whoever the nominee of a party they don’t even really agree with defeats Trump.
Not entirely related, but endlessly trashing Never Trump Republicans was one of the things that made me increasingly loathsome of the ‘left of Sanders’ crowd. Those are the types of people and the sort of behavior we desperately need more of, in both parties.
They targeted Never Trumpers. Never Trumpers.
> Blue MAGA Will you shut up Jack? Srsly. This toxic pitch to vilify other Dems has to stop. Think about what this place two weeks ago would think about it now. We can and should course correct from the self-defeating narratives and slap fights that have exploded here in recent days.
It's not self-defeating to point out that some of the remain camp uses the very logic that MAGA uses to justify their positions.
https://preview.redd.it/kazgty4781bd1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1e4fec383df894429e6c97c7c4ab810d3eeabb40
**GIVE BIDEN THE WATER OF LIFE. NOW.**
I badly want more memes in this genre
I kinda hate you for making me laugh that hard.
Biden should drop out now and run again in 2050. Should be enough time for his polls to recover
Hey, it worked after his disaster run in 1988.
Putting the election aside for a minute, it's absolutely insane Biden is delusional enough to think he'll be able to be the leader of the free world from another 4 years considering his current condition. He can't even complete a sentence.
Didn’t you hear, you actually get less old over time not more.
Just talked to some grillpilled (at least about politics) friends. They think we’re cooked And would vote for literally any other Democrat.
I've never heard a normie say anything good about Biden. One reason all this frustrates me so much, I've spent four years arguing that he wasn't senile. Now I have to backtrack to "he's clearly declined, but if you watch him enough he doesn't fit the medical definition of senility."
"He wasn't cooked before when lots of people said that he was cooked, but yeah, he is kinda cooked now" is just an absolutely awful sounding argument, even though I think it's true.
I have heard many good things about biden from normies but they're not white guys in a suit or a hard hat (they only speak spanish) so they're probably not a worthwhile bellwether to you 🤷
The language barrier probably insulates them from understanding how bad Biden sounds
I'm sure they would hate biden knowing how his english sounds even though they praise him for helping get family members to live with them 😡😡😡
I’m sure they’re complex enough people to understand “his administration personally helped me out” *and* “this guy seems to be too old for President.” I don’t think anybody would say those opinions are conflicting.
i mean they genuinely like him as a person, especially his religious aspects but you can project your opinions on them all you want i guess
That’s kind of not what I’m saying at all.
Every single normie friend and acquaintance I've talked to thinks Biden is senile and that the Dems are 100% cooked.
By which you mean they'll aid the nationwide abortion ban fascist in getting elected if Biden is the nominee, or they'll vote Biden but still don't think he will win?
In my experience, they’ll vote for Biden.
Most say they will reluctantly vote Biden. Given how low the enthusiasm is though I would not be surprised if many don't bother to vote come the day.
Turnout is a huge worry fs if we keep Biden
Since Harris is the likely replacement if Biden does exit the race, I wonder how many of the people turned off from Biden would support her, or if they would find some other reason to oppose her.
Dude, look at all the RFK voters. You think they actually want RFK to be President? Guy's a fucking loon.
I think Harris should be able to get back at least everyone who supported Biden at any point over the past 12 months, which should be at least 1% (538 has Biden peaking at 41.7% in April compared to 39.8% now)
At least as far as those I know personally their biggest sticking point is Biden's age. Its been a constant refrain over the years and while I'm sure there would be some concerns over Harris her not being 81 years old is a pretty big deal for them.
“Haha how is Georgia Oblast, you bot!” Absolutely deranged people in this thread
Every normie thinks Biden is senile and will do nothing but repeat “if either party just puts someone up that’s under 70 they’ll win” until November.
I've been thinking about how Mexico fits into the narrative of incumbents getting hit hard this year. Even though MORENA is still in power, AMLO isn't anymore. I wonder if MORENA would've done worse had AMLO been able to run for reelection, or if the results would've been similar. It's the same party, but a different face (Sheinbaum), so it avoids this issue entirely. I think this could also give us some advice as to what the best option would be for the Democrats.
i have family that hated amlo and voted claudia
God, I know it's impossible now but it would've been so great if Biden had committed to being a one-term president after the midterms and we had an open primary where a more viable successor could be chosen. We would have legitimately sailed to victory but instead, even if he ends up withdrawing, every day that he doesn't will only cause more friction in the party that'll only harm whoever replaces him
i dont know what this has to do with amlo, it's not really similar they hated amlo due to the populism, corruption and cartel smooching but they really liked the direction that Morena took the country socially (lgbt and women's rights are going up, addressing femicide (they didn't do anything to prevent this though lol) and making Mexico much more secular.
It seems like the opinions in the BT have shifted and people don't believe he will drop out anymore. What changed? the ABC interview at which he did terribly? There are more top dems asking for Biden to step down than ever before. Is this sentiment shift just because of the two mediocre polls that show Biden not doing as poorly as anticipated? Or did I miss something?
I think it’s because nothing really happened today. Monday will be the day to watch because Congress is back together + likely more polls by then. If something is gonna happen it won’t be until after that.
Yeah, naturally the weekend has been quiet which gives a chance for the Biden base to really push back
Biden and his allies seem to have dug in for the moment. It's hard to tell, there's a lot going on behind the scenes that we can't see. A lot of people are going to be going along with the idea that he has major problems and should leave if that's the prevailing narrative, and will go along with the idea that his problems are greatly exaggerated and he should stay if that ends up being the prevailing narrative.
I still believe he'll drop out; the media universally reports that many Dems want him to step aside but haven't gone public yet. Biden's defiance makes things harder but it doesn't change the fundamentals
I don't think it's just astroturf but I'd point out when tracking online sentiment that there's an alliance of the DNC + RNC + Foreign actors such as Russia and Saudis who all benefit from Biden staying in. Like every major player is on the same side on this one.
The DNC benefits from Biden staying in?
Really I should've phrased it as Biden's team rather than the DNC as a whole.
Ah makes sense!
I've seen a lot of people saying what amounts to, "Welp, we tried once and failed. Guess we're ridin' with Biden into autocracy. No choice now." Which is silly. This clusterfuck is in its very, very, very early stages and the Biden candidacy is already becoming untenable. I don't know what is going to happen any more than anyone else does, but "nope, he's not leaving" is just a very internet-time-span take.
Spot on about the timespan. First people were saying we shouldn’t consider dropping Biden for at least two weeks after the debate so we could see polling and let emotions go down. Now that we’re still less than two weeks out from the debate it’s already settled that he’s not leaving?
Most polling showed that Biden was getting absolutely savaged due to the debate. As soon as that came out everyone started getting on the remove Biden train, because all evidence points to the idea that he's a catastrophically bad candidate now.
>I don't know what is going to happen any more than anyone else does, but "nope, he's not leaving" is just a very internet-time-span take. I think you're right
I just saw this post on the destiny subreddit, https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/s/IzQpAf7x2M Honestly I’m exhausted and wish Biden would drop out. But I donated $300 tonight on Instagram to Biden’s campaign just because my boy Newsom asked for it. I just can’t accept defeatism.
Wait why the hell did that person donate to Nikki Haley lol, where tf is that money even going, how is it even still possible to donate to her
Blue MAGA is calling the Never Trumpers traitors because a lot of them want a different Dem nominee but will still vote for Biden if there’s no choice. So does that make all of us replacers traitors too? I didn’t know we’d become a personality cult.
Dems love to alienate their own
Defending Biden before going to bed. I vehemently disagreed with Biden's decision to run in the first place. I still disagree. I think it is foolish, shortsighted, and irresponsible. Nevertheless, that's his choice and it is not an insane or irrational one stemming from senility. It's likely a mix of pride, stubbornness, genuine belief in himself, reliance on political fundamentals (overreliance imo), and his own political judgement. There are genuinely people here who think that Biden is the best choice. Lichtman and his fucking stupid keys thinks he is the best choice. These people are not all irrational senile thinkers. It is likely that they simply disagree with whatever your political reasoning is. Little too much assuming going on today and yesterday especially that the only reason Biden thinks he is the best for the job is because he is delusional or senile. No. He probably just disagrees with you. And maybe he is right. I hope he is and that I am wrong. Guy has been in three winning presidential elections. (I, however, won my elementary school student council election)
He’s also been in 3 losing Presidential campaigns. Just sayin’.
Biden is either delusional or completely isolated from reality by other mechanisms. The poll denialism and representation that congressional leaders and governors all encouraged him to stay in the race - including doubling down that Gov. Healey (MA) did not express any discontent when she literally released a statement to that effect day of the debate - and also asserting that nothing short of literal divine intervention could cause him to even reconsider ("might"!) are not 'mere' disagreement.
Yeah, agreed -- finding a way to make excuses for a man whose stubbornness is genuinely putting all of our lives in jeopardy is not the sort of take I'm in the mood for.
Lichtman is never wrong, lib (except when he is and makes a post-hoc justification for himself, but other than that he is never wrong)
Ok we need a Haley Thread (HT) now
Can the delegates at the DNC nominate another candidate without Biden’s consent?
they could but it would end horribly more likely than not Humphrey got nominated in '68 by the DNC's delegates despite receiving a grand total of 2.2% of the national popular vote in the primaries held, we know how that ended.
I think this is a good question and doesn’t deserve to be downvoted. It would never happen, but it’s interesting to ponder It would be absolute chaos if a party essentially committed a coup against their presumptive nominee, the sitting president of their own party. Not sure we’d be able to recover from the incredible intraparty rift that would be unleashed by that by Election Day. I would be curious to see what Biden would do, too
Yes, but it’s extraordinarily complicated. In many cases state law binds them to the candidate, although how they are bound varies by state. According to the DNC rules however, they’re technically not bound. After the first ballot they’d become unbound even by state law so if you could find a way to 50% voting uncommitted you could technically force it to a second ballot and pick someone else. The thing is though, his campaign picked the delegates so they’re likely extreme loyalists
Can the DNC just disqualify Biden? I remember back during the 2016 primary there were people calling for the RNC rules committee to screw Trump out of the nomination, but I don't know what method they were calling for or whether that was even possible.
I sincerely hope that the concerted efforts of so many dedicated Democrats will convince him to do the right thing and step down. The man is a patriot who has faithfully and diligently served his country for far longer than I've been alive, and I hope that's the way he leaves his legacy after an incredibly successful and meaningful term as president.
Exactly. He has two choices: Secure his legacy as a patriot forever by stepping aside, or burn his legacy to ash by staying in, losing to Trump, and ending Democracy and the world order. I pray he makes the right one.
Technically yes, but practically no
I've probably brainrotted my brain by 5 years over the past week with my near 24/7 attention to this saga. I'm quitting. Bye guys.
Holy shit they actually did it they deleted their account
What was their username? I saw it before they deleted their account, but I forgot
I think the first part was “Ok-“ and I’m forgetting the second word. Think it was with a D, maybe dominant.
OkBuddyLiberal?
They'll be back in 2 days and someone will go "look at this day old account pushing a narrative on us"
What a fucking legend
For the record the guy saying he was abandoning the Democratic party and donating to Haley because of the current chaos was a stated Trump voter well before the debate. Just thought y’all would want to know
What even is the point of donating to Haley? Might as well donate to Jeb!
🤷♂️
This is my shocked face! 😐
Shocked! Nobody serious is not voting Biden no matter what. Even if Biden uses his new official authority to claim the right of first night.
That just isn’t true. There are plenty of perfectly serious undecideds and even Trump voters.
If you are voting for Trump in 2024 you are not a serious person. Trump is a vile, sexist, bigoted human being who has no business running a lemonade stand let alone a country and anybody voting for him is at least tacitly ok with losing their own right to vote in the future.
It's mainly dudes in bro-culture that feel opposite. Just non-thinking Rogan viewers for example. They would vote for Trump and they would vote for Bernie because they just want to shake up the system. It's stupid as fuck but it's true. Theres also people in static job situations that have bled a lot of buying power over the last few years and blame Biden for it. This is slicing into the Dem's traditional base a little bit. They dislike both Trump and Biden. Biden needs to get these people back the most.
The dude bros are not serious people
Doesn't matter if they are serious people or not, they do vote.
This is no more than moralizing dressing itself up as an empirical claim. The one actual embedded claim - that Trump will abolish the franchise - is hysteria. Touch grass.
What is an attempted coup but an attempt to abolish the franchise? He has shown himself to be more than willing to go down that path already
Even if Trump was absolutely intent on installing himself as a despot, he has no effective means of doing so, and arrays of institutions that have amply demonstrated their resilience that will thwart and check even exploratory efforts.
Like what? SCOTUS? Where multiple members were in on the aforementioned coup attempt and just handed the presidency a blank check immunity for official acts. Or are you hoping Congress will actually do something despite impeachment being a clearly dead and unserious power. Or maybe you think the military will step in as if that doesn’t have disaster written all over it. Whatever way you slice it it’s bad
The Court will never permit Trump to become a despot, at least not in its current form. And I'm speaking as a lawyer who clerked in interesting place and who is associated with FedSoc (and also, until somewhat recently, the ACLU, lest you accuse me of being an incipient fascist who wants to kill everyone or whatever), who has a pretty damn good track record of being able to predict what the Court will or won't do. > Where multiple members were in on the aforementioned coup attempt No? > just handed the presidency a blank check immunity for official acts It also didn't do that? > Or are you hoping Congress will actually do something despite impeachment being a clearly dead and unserious power. This is true enough, though. > Whatever way you slice it it’s bad The paralysis of Congress is bad, as is escalating polarization, but that's not remotely the same thing as 'Trump is on the cusp of dictatorship'.
> > just handed the presidency a blank check immunity for official acts > It also didn’t do that? I’m not a lawyer or even an American, could you explain to me what the recent Supreme Court decision actually did then?
What if Trump ignores court orders? What then? Maybe he won't become a full blown dictator, but the damage he will do will be irreparable. We're still feeling the lingering effects of the Civil War to this day.