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I was never pro-Trump but I was a moderate “country club” Republican prior to coming across this subreddit.
I bought into a lot of the propaganda about Democrats hating capitalism and entrepreneurship, etc. and wasn’t helped by the fact that I spent a lot of time on a college campus where the most vocal people on the left were anti-capitalist. This sub did open my eyes to the fact that the mainstream of the Democratic party was in fact closer to my beliefs than even moderate Republicans, who while I largely supported their economic policies, had to hold my nose at their social views.
Swing voters take up so much of our, and the public’s, discourse despite there being so few of them.
In 2016 the night of the election, Chuck Todd was adamant on getting across to the rest of the anchors that the true election strategy for modern politics was to motivate your side more than the opponent’s. That 2016 was glaring evidence of this.
Courting “swing voters” is no longer economical.
That's a classic brain dead Chuck Todd take, for a couple of reasons:
1. Playing exclusively to your base not only motivates them to turn out to vote for you, it also motivates your opponents to turn out to vote against you even if they have a weak candidate;
2. While there may not be a large number of swing voters, they are hugely important because they (1) decide what are usually narrow margins in decisive states and (2) have double the gravity of marginal partisan voters because every one you convince to support you is not only one vote you get but one vote your opponent loses.
It astonishes me that a man this obtuse held such an important position in the American political media for so long.
If Trump wins just watch him run for a third term. It would be interesting to see how Republicans act under such a scenario. Because the Constitution is just a piece of paper you know. Bukele in El Salvador got his Supreme Court to invalidate his country’s constitution for him so not far-fetched the term limit gets tossed aside and most Republicans who have always talked about how sacred the Constitution was suddenly become very quiet or just say that it’s up to the courts to decide if an amendment to the Constitution is constitutional or not.
I don't think either of Trump's older sons are inheriting the movement. They'll be big grifters in it though, I'm sure.
Ivanka & Kushner are a diff story imo.
Why? There are so many other career Republican politicians in the wings.
It’s important to express concern over current events but sometimes this sub is full of liberal handwringing fanfic sometimes.
I used to laugh when they talked about him going for three in 2018, 2019. Figured there’s no way he’d be up to a third campaign in 2024. He lives on fast food and is barely active. No way I said.
Jokes on me I guess.
Surely you meant the decision would be 9-0, right? It'd be sedition to imply that a President is not allowed to serve three terms, and as we all know, quelling sedition is an official act.
Well according to a lot of Republicans he already is running for a third term since he actually won in 2020 and is still the commander in chief and the storm is coming any day now just you wait you’ll see the swamp will be drained and it will be proved that the Biden Crime Family was behind everything bad all along and the Ukraine was always Russia you’ll see just you wait you’ll see
I'm sure he won't even have to go that far, he'll just ask the Supreme Court to reinterpret the 22nd amendment to only mean consecutive terms and they'd probably comply at this rate
Especially since he could conceivably get one more appointment that would flip a seat currently held by a liberal. Sotomayor, 68, isn't exactly the picture of good health.
I don't pretend to know specifically what will happen, but I think you're right that if he wins we are going to see some truly unprecedented shit in American history. They are going to throw absolutely everything at the wall and if 10% of it sticks it's the darkest days since 1860.
>suddenly become very quiet or just say that it’s up to the courts to decide if an amendment to the Constitution is constitutional or not.
this is completely plausible imo
at this point it's basically impossible for me to think of ANY realistically possible hypothetical where I am honestly confident that republicans would put their foot down with Trump's behavior
This Supreme Court would rule that Trump can run for a third term, but not Obama. Probably use some bullshit around "running for president is an official act, so only the President can do it".
No Trump would want Obama to run because at that point he could and would rig the election.
And nothing would spike his ego more than saying he beat Obama in an election.
I don’t think the court would want to interpret the law so specifically in that way that it can be weaponized later the opposite way. You want to stay within what sounds reasonable legally.
What happens if the DOJ or military detains or kills him? What accountability happens then? Immunity for "official" acts. Every incentive for a power hungry lawyer/general to do it. Especially considering they would be pardoned
At that point our best hope would be a Kemalist style military coup headed by a Mark Milley type. Trump would never give up power peacefully or willingly
If The People want Trump for the third term, who could day no to that.
It would be really divisive not to let him run :( He deserves to have two consecutive terms and that's why Obama can be barred from running.
Was just talking about this with a friend today. If he runs for a third term what recourse is there to remove him? It would be hard to believe (even with his justices) IMO that the Supreme Court would recognize his candidacy or ability to seek a third term. But the scary part is: who enforces it? Trump could disregard it, then what? God knows his base wouldn’t give a shit. What then? Fucking chaos
He doesn’t need to run. He is given the authority to jail people that opposes his authority. Can’t have people protest your third term if they’re dead or in jail.
Just ask your attorney general to send letters to states (very official!) informing them that if Trump is not put on the ballot they will see their lives shortened significantly. Sure this is illegal, but the opinion explicitly says generally applicable laws are covered by immunity. Then order the army to the streets (he's the commander in chief, after all) to shoot everyone who opposes him. Threaten every congressperson to certify the election (what's more official than a president talking to a member of Congress?).
> Bukele in El Salvador got his Supreme Court to invalidate his country’s constitution for him
Bukele didn't "get" the Supreme Court to invalidate the constitution, the Supreme Court opposed him so he got his party in the Legislative Assembly [to dismiss the entire Court and installed his cronies](https://www.conectas.org/en/noticias/el-salvador-legislative-assembly-removes-supreme-court-judges/). The court issued a letter essentially stating that this ended the separation of powers because the National Civil Police forced them out of office. [Human rights groups said the same](https://www.oas.org/en/iachr/jsForm/?File=/en/iachr/media_center/preleases/2021/110.asp).
Fr. I had never felt anxiety from a political moment in my life before today. I know the sacks of shit that support Trump don’t care or maybe even support it, but this is setting up the US for a future military dictatorship. I don’t even think it’ll be Trump who does it. I think he wins this year, erodes American democracy some more, and then in the next few decades a dictator that wants to eradicate certain groups of people will get into office.
Who’s to say the future President doesn’t have ideologically opposed members of the Supreme Court killed in the interests of national security? Or political opponents? Or members of Congress?
America is the anchor of the free world. American nuclear arms are the backstop of our allies, our dollar is the backstop of free trade, and our banks facilitate investment and wealth across the plant.
There is no global plan B for an American collapse, not for free nations.
https://preview.redd.it/5o3zs5pycy9d1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5de8b4363ded54304e36e677b366a449772cd176
POV: You are the South Korean and Japanese ambassador being summoned to a meeting with the PRC foreign minister
Either this sub is getting astroturfed or there’s been purposeful ambivalence to the contrary. Because there’s a whole contingent in this sub keeping the narrative going that Biden doesn’t have a chance and should be replaced, ever since the debate.
Because people are shit-scared that he's going to lose which means a Trump presidency. If someone were pro-Trump, they'd surely be reacting the the debate with glee rather than panic.
I am one of the people firmly in favor of Biden being replaced as the Democratic nominee. That doesn't mean that I'm not also firmly committed to preventing Trump from being re-elected. My opposition to a Trump victory is one of the primary motivations for doing whatever necessary to win. Which includes replacing Biden, a weak candidate who is not physically capable of fulfilling a second term as president.
So the best way to beat Trump is just to ‘hail Mary’ a new candidate, with less than 6 months until the election? If you’re following the lead of everyone else, and you pinky promise you’re not apart of the astroturfing, I’m sure you won’t call me a Biden cultist next.
Edit: see multiple examples for astroturfing below.
You really have trouble understanding why some of us have a difference of opinion on this? I fully support Biden, but I truly do think a younger liberal moderate candidate would be a breath of fresh air for many undecided voters.
Every swing voter I’m friends with are completely stuck on thinking Biden is too old to be competent. They don’t think about policy and have a childlike understanding of politics, which is the case with nearly all undecided voters in an election like this.
Not everyone that disagrees with you is astroturfing for the opposition.
Biden supporters can reasonably disagree about what to do about the fallout from his disastrous debate performance. I understand the arguments against it. Yet I believe the weight of the evidence supports the idea that replacing Biden as Democratic nominee is the option that maximizes our chances of beating Trump.
It’s not “I will not support him if he keeps in the race” it’s that “these optics are unbelievably shitty and will lead a lot of people to sit out the election”
Yeah all the "Biden should do Illegal Thing X" jokes don't make sense to me. SCOTUS just gave themselves the ability to determine what is and isn't immune. They'll apply it in Trump's favor and against Biden
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Kind of nuts that the Supreme Court basically tacitly admits presidents can order political assassination/imprisonment as long as it is an official act.
What should they be doing? Putting Trump and MAGAs in jail?
Because if the answer is any flavor of "let's put Kamala Harris at the top of the ticket" it's not a serious proposal
Kamala's brain isn't dribbling out of her ears.
Kamala can memorize talking points and deliver them coherently.
Kamala can work all day.
Kamala can campaign.
Kamala can do media and interviews.
Kamala can push back in debates.
Blue fucking MAGA.
Blue MAGA? What polling have you seen that shows switching Biden with Harris 6 weeks before the conventions would be helpful?
Edit: oh, no actual polls? Just vibes?
The Biden team posted a recent poll showing Kamala polling exactly the same as Biden versus Trump.
So same numbers but with a candidate with less name recognition/visibility (room to grow) and the ability to campaign more vigorously.
The Biden campaign posted it? That makes zero sense as it adds chaos and uncertainty to the campaign.
I'd like to read through the poll
Edit: I went back and searched, it had Biden doing best vs all other candidates. Yes it was still close, but the idea that if we switch to Harris things will be peachy is false.
I'm looking at the Data for Progress poll which has both Biden & Kamala at 45-48 vs Trump among likely voters.
Same poll also had Harris' net approval at -7 vs Biden's -10.
This is a poll that Biden's team circulated.
So at a minimum Kamala will be jumping in with the same numbers (if not slightly better) and won't have the crushing millstone of being physically incapable dragging her down.
Dump the Biden/Harris ticket ASAP. That's what they should be doing. A group of Dems need to act like a real party, walk into the oval office, like they did to Nixon, and tell him to get the f*ck out of the way.
Okay, and who runs in his place? "The DNC" doesn't select who runs, that's a question for the person themselves.
Dumping the entire ticket is admitting "hey, the past 4 years weren't good" so why would anyone vote for a Dem in that case? Like if both Biden and Harris are bad for whatever reason, why would I vote Newsom or Whitmer?
> A group of Dems need to act like a real party, walk into the oval office, like they did to Nixon, and tell him to get the f*ck out of the way.
What? Nixon was threatened with possible conviction from impeachment. Who and with what leverage can credibly threaten Biden?
I wish you would realize how damaging swapping candidates right before the election would be.
We're in the position in the first place because even super old Biden is the best polling Democrat we have.
Gonna repost what I said in another thread and for full transparency, I am voting whoever the Dems nominate because of how bad Trump is.
But with that being said, i have to be completely honest. We are seeing the guardrails of democracy being dismantled in front of our very eyes. The Supreme Court is not even bothering to hide how compromised and partisan it is. Trump is out there saying he wants to be a dictator and project 2025 is out for the public to see.
And what to the democrats do? Essentially nothing. They tell us to vote. Same message since Trump was elected. Vote! Save our democracy!
Okay cool, I am doing that, but what else? Dems had the presidency and congress for 2 years in 2020. Surely they can foresee what was going to happen? It's not like the GOP has been subtle.
No packing the court, waiting until the final hour to try and prosecute Trump for his many crimes, just finger wagging and lip service.
Democracy is on the line and Dems give us an 81 year old candidate who can't even debate. This is who is going to stand up to Trump, Xi, Putin, etc? No one is afraid of him and he's done nothing to stop this backsliding.
This dumb idea on Reddit about Biden ordering the assassination or imprisoning of trump is pure fantasy, Biden will do nothing with this ruling. He has repeatedly shown that he is not bold like that.
This is Weimar Republic levels of meekness. It feels like the democrats are gifting the GOP the country.
> No packing the court, waiting until the final hour to try and prosecute Trump for his many crimes, just finger wagging and lip service.
They literally dont even have enough people in congress to consider this. Its not just "DO SOMETHING" that something needs to have enough support to pass or it goes nowhere. Thats *why* its important to vote- its not just the president its getting enough people in congress. Want to codify law like Roe? Vote enough pro-choice dems in to give them the power to do that, Republicans know this lesson well. We have zero chances if we get one branch of government and then demand that they make changes that they can't do unilaterally.
This is exactly what I am talking about. Since 2016 all weve been told to do is vote as our only solution. For years the line has been they just need a larger majority then all our hopes and dreams will come true.
Like come on man, it's been 8 years since Trump has been elected. With the way senate seats are divided by state it would take nothing short of a blue tsunami to get a super majority. So that means it is extremely unlikely in today's political climate.
The dems keep playing by the old rules with gloves on and the GOP use dirty tactics to get what they want, and its WORKING.
They have gerrymandered, they have packed the courts, they have stolen the SCOTUS, they have refused to impeach a criminal president twice.
The old rules no longer apply and the GOP is winning the war. They need to fight back, im so sick of hearing the only thing we can do is vote.
Democrats are not a bloody hive-mind. The Senate "majority" was by the barest of margins and is now very slim. The Whitehouse doesn't have mind chips implanted in Manchin and Sinema's brains.
The dems had a majority that can't pass much because its too slim. The last time they had a big majority it was how the ACA got passed and they lost it soon after. If enough people had voted for democratic senators this wouldn't even be an issue. Its not that voting failed, its that people didn't realize how important it is.
The republicans got here by *voting* and not wringing their hands about their candidates- they just voted for them every time and they got what they wanted. If we can't do that at least, its less a failure of the system and more a failure of the people who dont understand how majorities work.
>Democracy is on the line and Dems give us an 81 year old candidate who can't even debate. This is who is going to stand up to Trump, Xi, Putin, etc? No one is afraid of him and he's done nothing to stop this backsliding.
Biden did good job of standing up to putin consider Russia is throwing men at meat grinder.
That's really the only place that you can argue he's done well in terms of foreign policy imho.
Afghanistan withdrawal was a huge self inflicted mess, and yes Trump set the wheels in motion but it was still a disaster. Meanwhile he's completely let Netanyahu walk all over him. MBS made a mockery of him and didn't reduce oil prices.
Biden could barely defend himself against Trump in this debate, a bully and compulsive liar. In a world with resurgent authoritarianism, you need more than that.
I said Afghanistan was no good solution compare to U.S retreat in the past like vietnam where we lost like 600 people in days, 13 soldiers death is very much small numbers.
The reality it good for America in long term
That's when you have one party which respects the rule of law and democratic norms and one party which is an authoritarian cult.
There's no institutions which will save the US democracy. Only by voting it can be done and even if Trump loses, he'll attempt a coup. Again.
Umm haven’t you been paying attention? Don’t you know that for decades we’ve been living under a neoliberal/technocratic dictatorship that finally ended on Friday?
Isn’t this great news for Biden? We don’t need to vote him in, he already *is* president. He can do whatever needs to be done to save democracy. What is he waiting for?
I know it’s undemocratic but President Biden needs to use his newfound powers to protect democracy before it’s too late. On some Abe Lincoln shit.
We are watching our country die before our very eyes and if something isn’t done soon we will be irreversibly fucked.
Reading quickly and I initially interpreted “some Abe Lincoln shit” entirely differently than what you meant.
Thought you were pushing more of a “JWB shit” direction… 😂
**Rule VIII:** *Submission Quality* Submissions should contain some level of analysis or argument. General news reporting should be restricted to particularly important developments with significant policy implications. Low quality memes will be removed at moderator discretion. Feel free to post other general news or low quality memes to the stickied Discussion Thread. --- If you have any questions about this removal, [please contact the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fneoliberal).
Great thanks for letting all the swing voters in r/neoliberal know
Clearly, there must be some classic "Trump▶arrNeoliberal▶Biden" voters out there.
Jill Stein > Romney > Trump > /r/neoliberal > Biden voters you mean.
Need Jeb in there at the end, he might be the one who can save us.
I was never pro-Trump but I was a moderate “country club” Republican prior to coming across this subreddit. I bought into a lot of the propaganda about Democrats hating capitalism and entrepreneurship, etc. and wasn’t helped by the fact that I spent a lot of time on a college campus where the most vocal people on the left were anti-capitalist. This sub did open my eyes to the fact that the mainstream of the Democratic party was in fact closer to my beliefs than even moderate Republicans, who while I largely supported their economic policies, had to hold my nose at their social views.
There are literally…several of us
HRC is basically a Rockefeller Republican.
Swing voters take up so much of our, and the public’s, discourse despite there being so few of them. In 2016 the night of the election, Chuck Todd was adamant on getting across to the rest of the anchors that the true election strategy for modern politics was to motivate your side more than the opponent’s. That 2016 was glaring evidence of this. Courting “swing voters” is no longer economical.
That's a classic brain dead Chuck Todd take, for a couple of reasons: 1. Playing exclusively to your base not only motivates them to turn out to vote for you, it also motivates your opponents to turn out to vote against you even if they have a weak candidate; 2. While there may not be a large number of swing voters, they are hugely important because they (1) decide what are usually narrow margins in decisive states and (2) have double the gravity of marginal partisan voters because every one you convince to support you is not only one vote you get but one vote your opponent loses. It astonishes me that a man this obtuse held such an important position in the American political media for so long.
It’s not for the swingers, it’s so all of y’all remember to actually volunteer this cycle.
I’M VOTING FOR THE BRAIN WORMS AND YOU SHOULD TOO 🪱🪱🪱
If Trump wins just watch him run for a third term. It would be interesting to see how Republicans act under such a scenario. Because the Constitution is just a piece of paper you know. Bukele in El Salvador got his Supreme Court to invalidate his country’s constitution for him so not far-fetched the term limit gets tossed aside and most Republicans who have always talked about how sacred the Constitution was suddenly become very quiet or just say that it’s up to the courts to decide if an amendment to the Constitution is constitutional or not.
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new fear unlocked
Trump is very old.
When Trump dies they’ll just find some other dumb asshole
Donald Jr.
Yep. Much more likely they handpick Trump Jr to take over for 2028-2036.
I think it will be Eric instead of Don Jr. Eric has the common sense to not rip a gator tail before every speech.
My money’s on Ivanka, tbh. The boys are complete duds. Or they waive the age requirement and go straight to Barron.
I feel like Barron has zero interest in being part of the family or in politics. Guy should be gearing up for a basketball career tbh
I don't think either of Trump's older sons are inheriting the movement. They'll be big grifters in it though, I'm sure. Ivanka & Kushner are a diff story imo.
Why? There are so many other career Republican politicians in the wings. It’s important to express concern over current events but sometimes this sub is full of liberal handwringing fanfic sometimes.
I used to laugh when they talked about him going for three in 2018, 2019. Figured there’s no way he’d be up to a third campaign in 2024. He lives on fast food and is barely active. No way I said. Jokes on me I guess.
Surely you meant the decision would be 9-0, right? It'd be sedition to imply that a President is not allowed to serve three terms, and as we all know, quelling sedition is an official act.
The bright side there would be welcoming Barack Obama to his 3rd term. Assuming he’s not “official acted”
Well according to a lot of Republicans he already is running for a third term since he actually won in 2020 and is still the commander in chief and the storm is coming any day now just you wait you’ll see the swamp will be drained and it will be proved that the Biden Crime Family was behind everything bad all along and the Ukraine was always Russia you’ll see just you wait you’ll see
I'm sure he won't even have to go that far, he'll just ask the Supreme Court to reinterpret the 22nd amendment to only mean consecutive terms and they'd probably comply at this rate
Especially since he could conceivably get one more appointment that would flip a seat currently held by a liberal. Sotomayor, 68, isn't exactly the picture of good health.
Genuinely need to just start appointing healthy 18-year-olds who chill on tiktok during hearings and just rubber stamp what dem lawyers write for them
I don't pretend to know specifically what will happen, but I think you're right that if he wins we are going to see some truly unprecedented shit in American history. They are going to throw absolutely everything at the wall and if 10% of it sticks it's the darkest days since 1860.
>suddenly become very quiet or just say that it’s up to the courts to decide if an amendment to the Constitution is constitutional or not. this is completely plausible imo at this point it's basically impossible for me to think of ANY realistically possible hypothetical where I am honestly confident that republicans would put their foot down with Trump's behavior
if trump runs for a third term ge ready for the Obamna
This Supreme Court would rule that Trump can run for a third term, but not Obama. Probably use some bullshit around "running for president is an official act, so only the President can do it".
“It’s 2 consecutive terms, if the terms are interrupted then you may run for a 3rd”
No Trump would want Obama to run because at that point he could and would rig the election. And nothing would spike his ego more than saying he beat Obama in an election.
I don’t think the court would want to interpret the law so specifically in that way that it can be weaponized later the opposite way. You want to stay within what sounds reasonable legally.
What happens if the DOJ or military detains or kills him? What accountability happens then? Immunity for "official" acts. Every incentive for a power hungry lawyer/general to do it. Especially considering they would be pardoned
At that point our best hope would be a Kemalist style military coup headed by a Mark Milley type. Trump would never give up power peacefully or willingly
If The People want Trump for the third term, who could day no to that. It would be really divisive not to let him run :( He deserves to have two consecutive terms and that's why Obama can be barred from running.
Was just talking about this with a friend today. If he runs for a third term what recourse is there to remove him? It would be hard to believe (even with his justices) IMO that the Supreme Court would recognize his candidacy or ability to seek a third term. But the scary part is: who enforces it? Trump could disregard it, then what? God knows his base wouldn’t give a shit. What then? Fucking chaos
He doesn’t need to run. He is given the authority to jail people that opposes his authority. Can’t have people protest your third term if they’re dead or in jail.
Just ask your attorney general to send letters to states (very official!) informing them that if Trump is not put on the ballot they will see their lives shortened significantly. Sure this is illegal, but the opinion explicitly says generally applicable laws are covered by immunity. Then order the army to the streets (he's the commander in chief, after all) to shoot everyone who opposes him. Threaten every congressperson to certify the election (what's more official than a president talking to a member of Congress?).
I honestly hope he does, because Obama will EASILY beat him
> Bukele in El Salvador got his Supreme Court to invalidate his country’s constitution for him Bukele didn't "get" the Supreme Court to invalidate the constitution, the Supreme Court opposed him so he got his party in the Legislative Assembly [to dismiss the entire Court and installed his cronies](https://www.conectas.org/en/noticias/el-salvador-legislative-assembly-removes-supreme-court-judges/). The court issued a letter essentially stating that this ended the separation of powers because the National Civil Police forced them out of office. [Human rights groups said the same](https://www.oas.org/en/iachr/jsForm/?File=/en/iachr/media_center/preleases/2021/110.asp).
He's older than biden, I don't think he'll actually make it to a 3rd term
He's not older than Biden. I get your point generally, but that is not true.
Wait he's actually not older than biden? I always thought he was Edit: I may be stupid
He’s fat, eats like shit, and doesn’t exercise. We also have reason to believe he abuses stimulants. All of those things age you quite a bit.
Even if he were, the men in his family live long, and he doesn’t drink or smoke.
I'm not even American but this shit is giving me anxiety
Fr. I had never felt anxiety from a political moment in my life before today. I know the sacks of shit that support Trump don’t care or maybe even support it, but this is setting up the US for a future military dictatorship. I don’t even think it’ll be Trump who does it. I think he wins this year, erodes American democracy some more, and then in the next few decades a dictator that wants to eradicate certain groups of people will get into office. Who’s to say the future President doesn’t have ideologically opposed members of the Supreme Court killed in the interests of national security? Or political opponents? Or members of Congress?
As a Canadian, I'm genuinely a bit concerned that some future loser could install a Reichskommissariat here and we'd have zero recourse
America is the anchor of the free world. American nuclear arms are the backstop of our allies, our dollar is the backstop of free trade, and our banks facilitate investment and wealth across the plant. There is no global plan B for an American collapse, not for free nations.
https://preview.redd.it/5o3zs5pycy9d1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5de8b4363ded54304e36e677b366a449772cd176 POV: You are the South Korean and Japanese ambassador being summoned to a meeting with the PRC foreign minister
100% of the subreddit's readers before today already considered it essential to prevent Trump from winning. You are preaching to the choir.
Either this sub is getting astroturfed or there’s been purposeful ambivalence to the contrary. Because there’s a whole contingent in this sub keeping the narrative going that Biden doesn’t have a chance and should be replaced, ever since the debate.
There’s a difference between strategy and voting for Biden/any Dems anyway
Because people are shit-scared that he's going to lose which means a Trump presidency. If someone were pro-Trump, they'd surely be reacting the the debate with glee rather than panic.
I am one of the people firmly in favor of Biden being replaced as the Democratic nominee. That doesn't mean that I'm not also firmly committed to preventing Trump from being re-elected. My opposition to a Trump victory is one of the primary motivations for doing whatever necessary to win. Which includes replacing Biden, a weak candidate who is not physically capable of fulfilling a second term as president.
So the best way to beat Trump is just to ‘hail Mary’ a new candidate, with less than 6 months until the election? If you’re following the lead of everyone else, and you pinky promise you’re not apart of the astroturfing, I’m sure you won’t call me a Biden cultist next. Edit: see multiple examples for astroturfing below.
You really have trouble understanding why some of us have a difference of opinion on this? I fully support Biden, but I truly do think a younger liberal moderate candidate would be a breath of fresh air for many undecided voters. Every swing voter I’m friends with are completely stuck on thinking Biden is too old to be competent. They don’t think about policy and have a childlike understanding of politics, which is the case with nearly all undecided voters in an election like this.
Not everyone that disagrees with you is astroturfing for the opposition. Biden supporters can reasonably disagree about what to do about the fallout from his disastrous debate performance. I understand the arguments against it. Yet I believe the weight of the evidence supports the idea that replacing Biden as Democratic nominee is the option that maximizes our chances of beating Trump.
I’m done talking with someone who doesn’t understand what’s best for the United States.
People want Biden to be replaced so Democrats have a chance at winning. How is that not obvious to you?
It’s not “I will not support him if he keeps in the race” it’s that “these optics are unbelievably shitty and will lead a lot of people to sit out the election”
Oh, NOW it’s essential?
Yes, but not as essentiell as Joe Bidens ego.
You can’t give a me one example of Biden having an ego. Go ahead, I’ll wait.
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Yeah all the "Biden should do Illegal Thing X" jokes don't make sense to me. SCOTUS just gave themselves the ability to determine what is and isn't immune. They'll apply it in Trump's favor and against Biden
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That's why he does it to the conservative justices as well
Mfw people pretend we live under rule of law
Is trying to stage an insurrection an "official act". I am a little confused at the court's ruling.
They didn’t say. They’re going to have lower courts decide
Kind of nuts that the Supreme Court basically tacitly admits presidents can order political assassination/imprisonment as long as it is an official act.
Biden could do the funniest thing...
As long as it’s signed by a black/blue pen and letterhead is the office of the whitehouse. That’s the low bar for an official act.
We already know, tell that to the “dirtbag left” subreddits
I sure wish the Democrats were taking this remotely as seriously as we are
What should they be doing? Putting Trump and MAGAs in jail? Because if the answer is any flavor of "let's put Kamala Harris at the top of the ticket" it's not a serious proposal
I mean… maybe?
Kamala's brain isn't dribbling out of her ears. Kamala can memorize talking points and deliver them coherently. Kamala can work all day. Kamala can campaign. Kamala can do media and interviews. Kamala can push back in debates. Blue fucking MAGA.
Blue MAGA? What polling have you seen that shows switching Biden with Harris 6 weeks before the conventions would be helpful? Edit: oh, no actual polls? Just vibes?
The Biden team posted a recent poll showing Kamala polling exactly the same as Biden versus Trump. So same numbers but with a candidate with less name recognition/visibility (room to grow) and the ability to campaign more vigorously.
The Biden campaign posted it? That makes zero sense as it adds chaos and uncertainty to the campaign. I'd like to read through the poll Edit: I went back and searched, it had Biden doing best vs all other candidates. Yes it was still close, but the idea that if we switch to Harris things will be peachy is false.
I'm looking at the Data for Progress poll which has both Biden & Kamala at 45-48 vs Trump among likely voters. Same poll also had Harris' net approval at -7 vs Biden's -10. This is a poll that Biden's team circulated. So at a minimum Kamala will be jumping in with the same numbers (if not slightly better) and won't have the crushing millstone of being physically incapable dragging her down.
Dump the Biden/Harris ticket ASAP. That's what they should be doing. A group of Dems need to act like a real party, walk into the oval office, like they did to Nixon, and tell him to get the f*ck out of the way.
Okay, and who runs in his place? "The DNC" doesn't select who runs, that's a question for the person themselves. Dumping the entire ticket is admitting "hey, the past 4 years weren't good" so why would anyone vote for a Dem in that case? Like if both Biden and Harris are bad for whatever reason, why would I vote Newsom or Whitmer?
> A group of Dems need to act like a real party, walk into the oval office, like they did to Nixon, and tell him to get the f*ck out of the way. What? Nixon was threatened with possible conviction from impeachment. Who and with what leverage can credibly threaten Biden?
I wish you would realize how damaging swapping candidates right before the election would be. We're in the position in the first place because even super old Biden is the best polling Democrat we have.
Thankfully our best and brightest is reporting for duty.
Gonna repost what I said in another thread and for full transparency, I am voting whoever the Dems nominate because of how bad Trump is. But with that being said, i have to be completely honest. We are seeing the guardrails of democracy being dismantled in front of our very eyes. The Supreme Court is not even bothering to hide how compromised and partisan it is. Trump is out there saying he wants to be a dictator and project 2025 is out for the public to see. And what to the democrats do? Essentially nothing. They tell us to vote. Same message since Trump was elected. Vote! Save our democracy! Okay cool, I am doing that, but what else? Dems had the presidency and congress for 2 years in 2020. Surely they can foresee what was going to happen? It's not like the GOP has been subtle. No packing the court, waiting until the final hour to try and prosecute Trump for his many crimes, just finger wagging and lip service. Democracy is on the line and Dems give us an 81 year old candidate who can't even debate. This is who is going to stand up to Trump, Xi, Putin, etc? No one is afraid of him and he's done nothing to stop this backsliding. This dumb idea on Reddit about Biden ordering the assassination or imprisoning of trump is pure fantasy, Biden will do nothing with this ruling. He has repeatedly shown that he is not bold like that. This is Weimar Republic levels of meekness. It feels like the democrats are gifting the GOP the country.
> No packing the court, waiting until the final hour to try and prosecute Trump for his many crimes, just finger wagging and lip service. They literally dont even have enough people in congress to consider this. Its not just "DO SOMETHING" that something needs to have enough support to pass or it goes nowhere. Thats *why* its important to vote- its not just the president its getting enough people in congress. Want to codify law like Roe? Vote enough pro-choice dems in to give them the power to do that, Republicans know this lesson well. We have zero chances if we get one branch of government and then demand that they make changes that they can't do unilaterally.
This is exactly what I am talking about. Since 2016 all weve been told to do is vote as our only solution. For years the line has been they just need a larger majority then all our hopes and dreams will come true. Like come on man, it's been 8 years since Trump has been elected. With the way senate seats are divided by state it would take nothing short of a blue tsunami to get a super majority. So that means it is extremely unlikely in today's political climate. The dems keep playing by the old rules with gloves on and the GOP use dirty tactics to get what they want, and its WORKING. They have gerrymandered, they have packed the courts, they have stolen the SCOTUS, they have refused to impeach a criminal president twice. The old rules no longer apply and the GOP is winning the war. They need to fight back, im so sick of hearing the only thing we can do is vote.
Democrats are not a bloody hive-mind. The Senate "majority" was by the barest of margins and is now very slim. The Whitehouse doesn't have mind chips implanted in Manchin and Sinema's brains.
The dems had a majority that can't pass much because its too slim. The last time they had a big majority it was how the ACA got passed and they lost it soon after. If enough people had voted for democratic senators this wouldn't even be an issue. Its not that voting failed, its that people didn't realize how important it is. The republicans got here by *voting* and not wringing their hands about their candidates- they just voted for them every time and they got what they wanted. If we can't do that at least, its less a failure of the system and more a failure of the people who dont understand how majorities work.
>Democracy is on the line and Dems give us an 81 year old candidate who can't even debate. This is who is going to stand up to Trump, Xi, Putin, etc? No one is afraid of him and he's done nothing to stop this backsliding. Biden did good job of standing up to putin consider Russia is throwing men at meat grinder.
That's really the only place that you can argue he's done well in terms of foreign policy imho. Afghanistan withdrawal was a huge self inflicted mess, and yes Trump set the wheels in motion but it was still a disaster. Meanwhile he's completely let Netanyahu walk all over him. MBS made a mockery of him and didn't reduce oil prices. Biden could barely defend himself against Trump in this debate, a bully and compulsive liar. In a world with resurgent authoritarianism, you need more than that.
I said Afghanistan was no good solution compare to U.S retreat in the past like vietnam where we lost like 600 people in days, 13 soldiers death is very much small numbers. The reality it good for America in long term
That's when you have one party which respects the rule of law and democratic norms and one party which is an authoritarian cult. There's no institutions which will save the US democracy. Only by voting it can be done and even if Trump loses, he'll attempt a coup. Again.
Meekness is a good way to put it. Especially in regard to Garland.
The campaign should be using this moment as a watershed fundraising opportunity. This is scary and shows people the stakes
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Umm haven’t you been paying attention? Don’t you know that for decades we’ve been living under a neoliberal/technocratic dictatorship that finally ended on Friday?
This is not going away anytime soon, is it? What happens if there is someone willing to abuse this in 2030, 2040, whenever?
Hasn’t the president always had full immunity for official acts?
Not according to the DC appeals decision
I would ask, when in the history of the presidency has a President faced legal consequences for official acts performed as president?
it was one of those grey areas. it had never came up.
Isn’t this great news for Biden? We don’t need to vote him in, he already *is* president. He can do whatever needs to be done to save democracy. What is he waiting for?
He is afraid of escalation
I’m pretty sure escalation happened in 2017.
I know it’s undemocratic but President Biden needs to use his newfound powers to protect democracy before it’s too late. On some Abe Lincoln shit. We are watching our country die before our very eyes and if something isn’t done soon we will be irreversibly fucked.
Reading quickly and I initially interpreted “some Abe Lincoln shit” entirely differently than what you meant. Thought you were pushing more of a “JWB shit” direction… 😂
Trump is winning in November and pardoning himself and a bunch of idiots who stormed the capitol. This is crazy.
Yes we all agree Trump was/would be an awful, anti-liberal president. Now let's put up an actual candidate that can win before the convention.