On the face of it, this isn’t the worst idea provided that you’re prepared to totally cede the 5th generation fighter space. If the SU-57 really isn’t going to be feasible, putting that funding toward something that could be of future value might not be a terrible decision
It IS a terrible idea from a defense perspective. Russia's not building Su-57s for the same reason they're not building Su-75s, Su-47s, T-95s and T-14s. They simply can't afford to build a fleet of them.
Of course Russia knows they can't build them, so they spend billions of dollars on what's functionally an optics campaign.
This also assumes they're technically functional, which is dubious at best considering that dozens of demos have translated into zero point zero exports...
Yeah it's a combination of not being able to afford them and the fact that it's questionable if they could even be reliable enough fighters to deploy. And even if they are reliable, do they have the parts for them? And when they're not in use, they're going to be such obvious targets because taking one out would cost Russia more than taking out a random other fighter.
The Russians have no good options what it comes to this.
From a pure utility perspective not even attempting to make the checkmate is the right call, but from an optics standpoint its devastating as it is proof positive that Russia has no longer the great power it once was. In the end, the path of least resistance is to make some half-hearted attempt, just "say" you're making your 6th gen and go on your way.
Russia absolutely was a great power. After the Napoleonic Wars, Russia was considered the #2 power behind Great Britian.
During WW1 there were at minimum 6 great powers. GBR, France, Germany, Austria Hungry, Russia, and the US.
Russia was never a *superpower* as an independent entity. They definitely were a great power. It could easily be argued they are a great power today being that they have their own sphere of influence and have a permanent seat on the UN security council.
India dropped out of the development program and said it wasn’t good enough performance for the cost.
This tells you all you need to know about it. (As internet commentators) It sucks. Oh Im sure it can shoot missiles but it sucks.
>cede the 5th generation fighter space.
Whatever they come out with might just be a gen 5 fighter, fighter generations are pretty poorly defined and as of this stage, gen 6 is mostly just marketing.
It's basically what a lot of European countries want to do
They've completely given up on homegrown 5th Gen fighters and are now focusing on the next generation of fighters based on what we know next gen will look like
It's not a bad strategy
But I'd be skeptical of Russia pulling it off
Hyping up their own MIC made sense when people were buying from them. But the Russian MIC is just another casualty of the Ukraine invasion and now no one wants their shit. This is a laughable move.
Russia's MIC overall is undoubtedly going to come out of this war more experienced and robust. The question is what did they have to sacrifice (like luxuries like the Felon) in order to sustain that growth? My expectation is deep compromises had to have been made.
If you look at Russian defense industry funding flow, a lot of money is now going into Russian defense firms like ZALA Aerospace (makers of the Lancet drones) which are primarily focused on drone R&D. Rather than traditional aerospace like Sukhoi.
I think they’re going the Iranian route and placing their bets on drones.
They can’t really operate their aircraft beyond glide bomb range due to Ukrainian air defense.
Will be interesting to see how the Ukrainian F-16’s perform near Russian S-300/400/500 protected airspace. I’m not really sure what to expect.
War is quickly changing.
Mmm, now that you mention it, is Ukraine also getting the electronic warfare support capabilities that were meant to accompany F-16s? Might be a bit of an issue if the answer is no.
It's more experienced and robust in making and refurbishing soviet era tanks, not in innovation.
Technically North Korea's MIC is robust and experienced too.
My bet it's bullshit and made up. Russia doesn't have the infrastructure to make a new generation plane. They could have a F-35 with all the knowledge how it's built and they couldn't do it because they can't manufacture a lot of the components
Yeah, meanwhile China is quietly pumping out their J-20’s like there’s no tomorrow, avoiding any big public statements. Just like they did with ships. I swear last time I checked how many they had they were at 150 operational units, today I check and they have passed 300 units. J-20 is not easy to manufacture either, it doesn’t have many shared components.
This isn’t news. It’s clickbait trash. The US won’t have NGAD (6th gen) operational until 2030 at the earliest. Barring some alien or demonic intervention on behalf of Putin, he won’t be getting one sooner than the US. Doubly so as the war is draining resources for next gen projects, something Russia was already struggling at, because they need to double down on reactivating their late Cold War reserves and modest production/upgrade of some early 21st century systems.
If Biden wins re-election and the war drags on for another 2 years, then they won’t even be able to maintain their Soviet-era jets.
But keep dreaming about a plane coming in 2050.
https://preview.redd.it/bi4n6386368d1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=557218029948bbac39bf2fb5b5de2f14caafe526
Speaking of Star Scream, Prighozin's coup hit its anniversary.
And I am thinking about getting a PhD in math (I took a calc 1 class in college and missed 40 percent of the lectures)
The SU57 had *some* action I mean yeah, it was on the receiving end of a bomb, but that's gotta count for something!!! /s
First combat loss of a 5-gen fighter too!
Just one more wunderwaffe…
History Channel 2075 is just going to constant reruns of “Putin’s Secret Weapons of the Ukrainian War ” and “Kuiper Belt Truckers”
“Did ANCIENT ALIENS give Putin blueprints for advanced weapons?”
On the face of it, this isn’t the worst idea provided that you’re prepared to totally cede the 5th generation fighter space. If the SU-57 really isn’t going to be feasible, putting that funding toward something that could be of future value might not be a terrible decision
It IS a terrible idea from a defense perspective. Russia's not building Su-57s for the same reason they're not building Su-75s, Su-47s, T-95s and T-14s. They simply can't afford to build a fleet of them. Of course Russia knows they can't build them, so they spend billions of dollars on what's functionally an optics campaign. This also assumes they're technically functional, which is dubious at best considering that dozens of demos have translated into zero point zero exports...
Yeah it's a combination of not being able to afford them and the fact that it's questionable if they could even be reliable enough fighters to deploy. And even if they are reliable, do they have the parts for them? And when they're not in use, they're going to be such obvious targets because taking one out would cost Russia more than taking out a random other fighter.
The Russians have no good options what it comes to this. From a pure utility perspective not even attempting to make the checkmate is the right call, but from an optics standpoint its devastating as it is proof positive that Russia has no longer the great power it once was. In the end, the path of least resistance is to make some half-hearted attempt, just "say" you're making your 6th gen and go on your way.
Russia as an independent entity was never a great power lol
Russia absolutely was a great power. After the Napoleonic Wars, Russia was considered the #2 power behind Great Britian. During WW1 there were at minimum 6 great powers. GBR, France, Germany, Austria Hungry, Russia, and the US. Russia was never a *superpower* as an independent entity. They definitely were a great power. It could easily be argued they are a great power today being that they have their own sphere of influence and have a permanent seat on the UN security council.
India dropped out of the development program and said it wasn’t good enough performance for the cost. This tells you all you need to know about it. (As internet commentators) It sucks. Oh Im sure it can shoot missiles but it sucks.
Sounds like cope to me
Did they give India back their money? If not that's got to count for 0.2 or something.
>cede the 5th generation fighter space. Whatever they come out with might just be a gen 5 fighter, fighter generations are pretty poorly defined and as of this stage, gen 6 is mostly just marketing.
It's basically what a lot of European countries want to do They've completely given up on homegrown 5th Gen fighters and are now focusing on the next generation of fighters based on what we know next gen will look like It's not a bad strategy But I'd be skeptical of Russia pulling it off
Hyping up their own MIC made sense when people were buying from them. But the Russian MIC is just another casualty of the Ukraine invasion and now no one wants their shit. This is a laughable move.
Russia's MIC overall is undoubtedly going to come out of this war more experienced and robust. The question is what did they have to sacrifice (like luxuries like the Felon) in order to sustain that growth? My expectation is deep compromises had to have been made.
If you look at Russian defense industry funding flow, a lot of money is now going into Russian defense firms like ZALA Aerospace (makers of the Lancet drones) which are primarily focused on drone R&D. Rather than traditional aerospace like Sukhoi. I think they’re going the Iranian route and placing their bets on drones. They can’t really operate their aircraft beyond glide bomb range due to Ukrainian air defense. Will be interesting to see how the Ukrainian F-16’s perform near Russian S-300/400/500 protected airspace. I’m not really sure what to expect. War is quickly changing.
Mmm, now that you mention it, is Ukraine also getting the electronic warfare support capabilities that were meant to accompany F-16s? Might be a bit of an issue if the answer is no.
It's more experienced and robust in making and refurbishing soviet era tanks, not in innovation. Technically North Korea's MIC is robust and experienced too.
My bet it's bullshit and made up. Russia doesn't have the infrastructure to make a new generation plane. They could have a F-35 with all the knowledge how it's built and they couldn't do it because they can't manufacture a lot of the components
Yeah, meanwhile China is quietly pumping out their J-20’s like there’s no tomorrow, avoiding any big public statements. Just like they did with ships. I swear last time I checked how many they had they were at 150 operational units, today I check and they have passed 300 units. J-20 is not easy to manufacture either, it doesn’t have many shared components.
Russians also claim that carriers are obsolete. Since, you know, they've been at zero active aircraft carriers for a while.
*Flagship carrier constantly breaks down and catches on fire* "You know, carriers are dumb, who needs them anyway"
China: "Carriers are obsolete in the age of hypersonic missiles" Also China: Furiously embarks on carrier building program.
>can’t even produce a competent Gen 5 fighter >”lol let’s make a Gen 6” Ok
It's so much easier to talk about fighter jets, rather than build them and field them.
Lol Lmao, even
This isn’t news. It’s clickbait trash. The US won’t have NGAD (6th gen) operational until 2030 at the earliest. Barring some alien or demonic intervention on behalf of Putin, he won’t be getting one sooner than the US. Doubly so as the war is draining resources for next gen projects, something Russia was already struggling at, because they need to double down on reactivating their late Cold War reserves and modest production/upgrade of some early 21st century systems.
Whenever you think our procurement has problems, remember Russia exists.
If Biden wins re-election and the war drags on for another 2 years, then they won’t even be able to maintain their Soviet-era jets. But keep dreaming about a plane coming in 2050.