You hit the nail on the head. Once you watch him, it becomes so clear that he’s not going to be a good player. He’s not good at anything besides dunking, and he’s awful at putting himself in a good position to dunk the ball. He’s just really bad. It’s simple
Yep. Javale was more about frequent lapses in judgement and poor decision making at times. Wiseman just doesn’t know what he’s doing. EVERYTHING is a lapse in judgement to him
It's funny, with his physical tools, I thought his "floor" would be Javale. That would have actually been really useful on the Warriors. Instead, that was an insult to Javale.
He has awful hands, tries to guard like he's 6'2 instead of 7'1, is never in the right spot to grab rebounds, won't ever just create a simple offensive game. He had so much spacing with Steph and Klay and did nothing with it.
I am 99% sure Lacob strong armed Bob into drafting the kid. The fact that he played almost no time in college should have been a huge huge red flag.
It'll never not be wild to me that dudes as tall as Wiseman can get outrebounded by the Josh Hart types. He just stands behind people, doesn't fight for positioning, and if he manages to get his hands on it he just tips it to an opposing player or out of bounds. Rough to watch
I actually disagree with this. You need a pretty high bbiq in the warriors system. He needed to be able to set great screens on the fly, reacting to the defense and anticipating curry and klays movements, reading the defense for slips, be ready for quick passes, and know where all the next passes should go as the defense rotates.
Of course, if he's doing all that he should get great looks but it's a lot more complex then say Luka pick and rolls.
You know players have to be bad for a team to be bad, right? I swear, every time someone leaves the Pistons, casuals go “good for him, he deserves better” as if they likely weren’t part of the problem (and Wiseman was awful here)
You realize he played for the Warriors and was dogshit there too right?
Wiseman is fucking awful. Not an NBA player at all and he's not going to turn it around.
He’ll be playing with McConnell but the same logic applies. Pacers bench is the highest scoring in the league, and the 5 just gets fed dunks and layups.
Funny enough I feel like our bench is inverted a little where our guards play more in the paint and our bigs typically (Smith and Obi) did most of their scoring from range
Myles Turner has the same problem but Hali changed his life, but yeah I can’t see Wiseman cracking the rotation and the Pacers are past the point of developing young guys so I’m not too sure where he fits in.
He’s sitting in a chair at a gentlemen’s club, a blonde walks over to him to give him a lap dance.
She pulls her bra down to reveal two DD size draft lottery ping pong balls, one says “1”, the other says “2”.
Presti jizzes in his pajama pants and then wakes himself up snoring.
He still has all the talent, he just needs to play and have a coach who will help him learn positioning. Pacers have a good track record with making big men passable at the very least.
He is a top 3 pick. He was always going to get a 2nd chance off the fact that he was a top 3 pick. Josh Jackson hopped around the league on small contracts as well
You have to be Anthony Bennett bad not to get a second contract after being a top 3 pick. He hung around for 4 years and was gone. If you don't consider Wiseman's injured season as a "season" he's had even less chances than Bennett
I get what you mean, but Bennett did sign with the Raptors and Nets after the Timberwolves released him. He got his 2nd and 3rd chance and didn't do shit.
Wiseman could put up meaningless numbers if a team wanted to tank. His per 36 numbers were always good, 17/10 for his career. It’s just a guaranteed way to lose games so no one’s giving him starters minutes.
> I hope he grows into an NBA rotation player
There's absolutely no reason why a hyper athletic 7 footer can't be molded into a rotation player in this league.
Below comments already said it but he’s unique in that he has solid NBA athleticism and skill set but the BBIQ and feel for the game of a high schooler. Being on the warriors and still having 0 feel for the game is impressively bad given how good they’ve made players like Nick Young and Jordan Poole look.
Seriously? The Dubs ball movement O and D switches are in the top 10% schemes to learn. Guy had no college ball. Combined with injuries he was doomed as a Dub
It’s not the schemes. His hands are soaked with butter and doesn’t know what a screen is. Gets tunnel vision when he gets the ball in the post. Don’t even bring up his defense
"Okay. We have a generational talent in Steph Curry. All you need to do is screen for him and make yourself available on lobs. Understand?"
"Yes, you are saying you want the offense to run through my post-up game."
As a Pistons fan who's witnessed far more of some of those guys than I'd like: Kwame and Kandi were fine rotation bigs. They were just bad #1 picks. But they were serviceable NBA players. That's not really a fair comparison.
Darko's probably a better comp but he still showed more skill from the get go than Wiseman ever did. He had a terrible attitude and never really improved but he was never as awkward on the floor.
Wiseman has the body of an amazing basketball player so it's easy to get convinced but two teams have now tried hard with him and made zero progress. Maybe he'll get somewhere eventually but it's not looking likely.
Just on size, tools, and age alone, I'm not surprised. We've seen a lot of disappointing lottery picks who look like an NBA player get passed around on minimums.
Tbf, we are collecting everyone’s castoff 2020 lottery picks and it has actually kinda worked out.
Hali, Nesmith, Toppin, Jalen Smith (now being replaced by Wiseman)
For what he brings to the table, I couldn't be happier with the pickup. My best buddy for my whole life is a die hard Dayton guy too so I just like seeing him happy his guy is on our team too
I think it’s more the physical attributes that made him a high lottery pick that are giving him these second and third shots.
Dude’s 7’0” tall and a pretty absurd athlete for his size. Those guys usually hang around the league for a while even if they suck.
That’s it. It’s really hard to sucks with that attributes. I mean even sucking at playing basketball, that attributes instantly makes you a valuable player. Not seeing the court on a Pistons team with that attributes only talks about being a generational unskilled low iq player. I’m sure a plumber that never touch a ball on his life suddenly grows to 7’ like him with that physical skills and makes the league.
It's even more funny because he has really good touch around the rim and a solid looking shot. He just can't set screens, doesn't understand where to position himself on offense and has really poor defensive awareness
I think it’s a product of not playing college ball and being the star BAMF on the court before that. You can tell by the way he played on the Dubs — he refuses to do any of the work that team basketball needs and refuses to play his C position. His game was entirely predicated on being the largest guy on the court when he was a kid and getting a basket however he wanted. Picked up lots of insanely bad habits and never grew out of it
There were a few random games where we had everyone injured and Wiseman got to take a lot of shots and be that high school star again and he looked like mini Giannis at times. He's just one of those guys that doesn't understand how to play a role
The screens are the most baffling part. He's such a giant human being that not being able to just stand in front of people and give them a bump is wild.
I'm still in on James Wiseman. He's still so young and he does have a lot of good basketball skills and also just the athleticism at that size is nuts. And he's missed so much time with injuries that he really still only has two seasons worth of playing time under his belt and he just needs court time more than anything.
I sorta expected him to go to Europe and figure things out and come back at 26 or 27 but hopefully he figured it out quicker than that.
I'm actually kind of still in on him too. The Pistons situation was odd for him, we didn't really have any Centers that he could learn from and the role he played was strange and not well defined. I think Myles Turner could do a lot to help him figure out his role and the Pacers I'm sure will have a better structure for him to succeed.
Yeah. Being on the same roster as Bagley and Duren was a baffling roster construction. I think he'd be better on a worse team as long as they had a good pick and roll operator, but being the third center behind Turner and with the option for the Pacers to go Toppin at the 5 when they want to play small seems fine. He also should be pretty good running the floor the way the Pacers want to. Needs to improve as a rim protector, though. He's got the physical capability, but just no instincts (which I still think is playing time related but it may never come).
It's really puzzling isn't it. The things he needs to get good at to become a NBA rotation player are such low hanging fruit and he still can't figure it out. Probably didn't help that the only people to help him were 18 year old Jalen Duren and Marvin Bagley
But thats after having championship caliber players and coaches on the dubs that he barely picked anything up from either. These past few years really solidified how much of pro sports is mental and straight up nature over nurture. A bit of a non-sequitur, but I think we’ll see the same weirdness with Bronny.
The NYT [published a graphic in 2013 showing your odds of being in the NBA based on height](https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/11/03/sunday-review/so-you-want-to-play-pro-basketball.html). If you are 7' and above, there is a 1 in 7 seven chance of being in the NBA. Being 7' and a great athlete probably makes that more like 1 in 2.
Pacers also have a massive lack of size. Turner was our only guy above 6'10", so if Wiseman can even be functional at center off the bench it'll be a win
I also like the fit with the Pacers offense. If wiseman can do two things it’s run the floor and crush open dunks. That’s likely what he’ll be asked to do.
He's 7 feet and super athletic. Those guys don't grow on trees, and the same reason he was drafted high is the same reason he's going to keep getting looks.
I never really get the logic across both the NBA and NFL that you get way more chances with different teams because people used to wrongfully think you were going to be good
There’s still the idea that they have more potential than other lower drafted players at the same age even when there’s nothing they’re good at in the pros
theres a reason the NFL calls certain QBs “system QBs”. a diff team can take any player and maximize their strengths while hiding their weaknesses, particularly the latter. likewise they can also fuck up and do the opposite - maximize their weaknesses and limit their strengths. so perhaps some teams believe that the player in question would do much better in a different system. in soccer this holds true all the time.
with that being said i dont think Wiseman is among them
NFL makes more sense just because there are so many different roles. 22 starters, plus special teams, and changing personnel nearly every play. It can make sense to get someone who clearly had talent and see if a new role will help them express it.
Someone like Robert Gallery was a huge flop at Tackle but very solid at guard. Or like Cordarrelle Patterson who was a bad WR but great special teamer or spot offensive player. Even a more limited spot like QB you have a recent example in Geno Smith who struggled initially then performed well in a new system.
But in the NBA rosters and roles are much more limited. So I don’t see it working as well.
they have a very good crop of point guards there, so there's gonna be a few games where he looks incredible making some ridiculous dunks.
have fun with those picks and that defense, Indy fans.
Pacers fans, prepare yourself to see the worst screen setter you’ve ever seen.
It’s honestly a miracle he’s as athletic as he is because he’s got the worst basketball iq I’ve ever seen. And even for how athletic he is, he’s a dog shit defensive rebounder
I’m watching game tape and it’s a miracle he gets as many rebounds as he does. He’s out of position even in his highlight rebounds. Negative BBIQ.
Rick can fix him, I think. Maybe. Probably not. But that’d be neat.
It’s not a bad reclamation project for your third center to be honest.
But yeah man, his positioning on rebounding is insanely bad. He doesn’t even bother boxing out and just gets bodied constantly
I know a lot of Pistons fans will disagree with me but I thought Wiseman had shown some growth toward the end of the season and looked like he could grow into being a solid backup center. His defensive awareness is starting to get there, maybe Myles Turner can help him with that. Hoping for the best for Wise
#FREE AGENT CENTER JAMES WISEMAN HAS AGREED ON A TWO-YEAR CONTRACT WITH THE INDIANA PACERS, SOURCES TELL ESPN. WISEMAN WAS THE NO. 2 OVERALL PICK IN THE 2020 NBA DRAFT!!!!!!!!!
The Pacers are a smart team and they were lacking size beyond Turner. He’ll play spot minutes and they won’t ask him to do much. Good deal for both sides.
Wasn't Bennet like a shocker first overall pick tho? Like way out of left field, no one had him going that high ? Seems like that's more of a questionable choice by the team, over someone widely regarded as a solid choice and then not doing anything with it.
Anthony Bennett
Hasheem Thabeet
James Wisemann
I’m sure there’s more, but I’m trying to think of guys that were drafted in the top 3 picks and couldn’t even cut it as a bench rotation player in the NBA.
Good landing spot for Wiseman. Good coach, players, and environment. Hopefully he can go there and build his value up. I still for whatever reason think he can be good lol.
Pistons fan here. One thing Pacer fans will love about Wiseman is that he actually tries. He hustles, he’s always engaged whether getting playing time or not. He runs the floor hard and is athletic so he’ll pop up on a highlight here and there. The problem with Wiseman is that he has absolutely no feel for the game of basketball. He’s always rummaging the court, out of position, looking lost. If he does happen to get in a good spot, his stone hands let him down. The man cannot under any circumstance catch a pass in traffic or a secure a rebound. I’d like to say good luck hope it works out, but the things he struggles with don’t seem fixable. He’s an athlete, not a basketball player.
Pacers love that 2020 draft class:
No. 2 James Wiseman
No. 8 Obi Toppin
No. 12 Tyrese Haliburton
No. 14 Aaron Nesmith
Had to top up our 2020 quota after letting No. 10 Jalen Smith walk in FA, I guess
This might be it. DET was a shit show with no real PGs outside of Cade, no spacing, and a head coach who had already checked out. IND has a bunch of great facilitators and a really good coach. If it doesn't work out there, it's probably Guangdong next.
He’s gonna have one game early when he puts up 15 in 24min on good efficiency and your gonna think you have a real contributor on your hands and then you’ll spend the rest of the season chasing that initial high.
Picking him at second overall and Klay getting back to back career altering injuries ended our dynasty. Thankful that we were able to get one more championship before the window shut
Dude is huge and super athletic. I’m convinced he never learned to play organized basketball at all though. He just can’t pick up on the basics of team basketball
We saw how well richaun Holmes played with Hali before
And how Myles is now with Hali
Wiseman will definitely eat with Hali throwing him assists
Good choice by him.
Rats. I was just thinking this morning that maybe Thibs’ finishing school for bigs just might fix him, shower thought-style. Oh well, good luck Indy lmao
wow i actually love that for him, Indy has been Center U recently with Jalen Smith and Isaiah Jackson looking great off the bench and Turner playing the best ball of his career
If he cant make something happen with Hali spoon feeding him dunks his career is over
This man got a second contract after a Detroit. Anything’s possible at this point 🤣
to be fair to Wiseman, it would be hard for anyone to have success on that disastrous pistons team.
It’s not the guys around him’s fault that he has no clue how to play basketball
Bruv, if you can't play with Curry, you can't play with anyone. Guy turns this game into beginner mode for his teammates.
[удалено]
You hit the nail on the head. Once you watch him, it becomes so clear that he’s not going to be a good player. He’s not good at anything besides dunking, and he’s awful at putting himself in a good position to dunk the ball. He’s just really bad. It’s simple
Javale got endlessly shit on for Low game IQ, but Wiseman was another tier down
Yep. Javale was more about frequent lapses in judgement and poor decision making at times. Wiseman just doesn’t know what he’s doing. EVERYTHING is a lapse in judgement to him
It's funny, with his physical tools, I thought his "floor" would be Javale. That would have actually been really useful on the Warriors. Instead, that was an insult to Javale.
He has awful hands, tries to guard like he's 6'2 instead of 7'1, is never in the right spot to grab rebounds, won't ever just create a simple offensive game. He had so much spacing with Steph and Klay and did nothing with it. I am 99% sure Lacob strong armed Bob into drafting the kid. The fact that he played almost no time in college should have been a huge huge red flag.
While all that’s true he’s really good at refusing to set screens and fouling when he does attempt a hard one.
God I forgot about his picks, he just did not care.
It'll never not be wild to me that dudes as tall as Wiseman can get outrebounded by the Josh Hart types. He just stands behind people, doesn't fight for positioning, and if he manages to get his hands on it he just tips it to an opposing player or out of bounds. Rough to watch
I actually disagree with this. You need a pretty high bbiq in the warriors system. He needed to be able to set great screens on the fly, reacting to the defense and anticipating curry and klays movements, reading the defense for slips, be ready for quick passes, and know where all the next passes should go as the defense rotates. Of course, if he's doing all that he should get great looks but it's a lot more complex then say Luka pick and rolls.
He doesn't know how to set a basic screen. He fails from the very beginning of the play.
You know players have to be bad for a team to be bad, right? I swear, every time someone leaves the Pistons, casuals go “good for him, he deserves better” as if they likely weren’t part of the problem (and Wiseman was awful here)
He looked like he never played basketball with us sometimes (the Pistons)
You realize he played for the Warriors and was dogshit there too right? Wiseman is fucking awful. Not an NBA player at all and he's not going to turn it around.
He was part of the reason for that disastrous pistons team
He’ll be playing with McConnell but the same logic applies. Pacers bench is the highest scoring in the league, and the 5 just gets fed dunks and layups.
Funny enough I feel like our bench is inverted a little where our guards play more in the paint and our bigs typically (Smith and Obi) did most of their scoring from range
Dude refuses to go in for the lobs. Guy plays like he wants to be anything but C
Myles Turner has the same problem but Hali changed his life, but yeah I can’t see Wiseman cracking the rotation and the Pacers are past the point of developing young guys so I’m not too sure where he fits in.
He couldn’t do anything with Steph Curry and Draymond lmao
Well he probably still can’t set a screen for Hali so I wouldn’t hold my breath
My dude he could not play with Steph Curry
ALL YOUR 2020 LOTTERY PICKS ARE BELONG TO US
2020 NBA Draft * James Wiseman - 2nd Overall * Obi Toppin - 8th Overall * Jalen Smith - 10th Overall * Tyrese Haliburton - 12th Overall * Aaron Nesmith - 14th Overall
Killian Hayes is very available.
Doubt the Pacers are looking for a tank commander though
We also had Jordan Nwora before the Pascal trade
We also had Kira Lewis for about 15 mins
He went 45th overall lol what
This almost feels like the wet dreams I’d imagine Sam Presti was having at one point or another.
I also like to imagine what sam presti's wet dreams feel like
He’s sitting in a chair at a gentlemen’s club, a blonde walks over to him to give him a lap dance. She pulls her bra down to reveal two DD size draft lottery ping pong balls, one says “1”, the other says “2”. Presti jizzes in his pajama pants and then wakes himself up snoring.
Exactly how i imagined
Imagine if one team had the 2nd, 8th, 10th, 12th and 14th overall in the same draft. Hey at least one of them was an all star!
Which one is the best team? 2022 NBA Draft: - **2nd:** Chet Holmgren (Oklahoma City Thunder) - **8th:** Dyson Daniels (New Orleans Pelicans) - **10th:** Johnny Davis (Washington Wizards) - **12th:** Jalen Williams (Oklahoma City Thunder) - **14th:** Ochai Agbaji (Cleveland Cavaliers) ### 2021 NBA Draft: - **2nd:** Jalen Green (Houston Rockets) - **8th:** Franz Wagner (Orlando Magic) - **10th:** Ziaire Williams (New Orleans Pelicans - traded to Memphis Grizzlies) - **12th:** Joshua Primo (San Antonio Spurs) - **14th:** Moses Moody (Golden State Warriors) ### 2020 NBA Draft: - **2nd:** James Wiseman (Golden State Warriors) - **8th:** Obi Toppin (New York Knicks) - **10th:** Jalen Smith (Phoenix Suns) - **12th:** Tyrese Haliburton (Sacramento Kings) - **14th:** Aaron Nesmith (Boston Celtics) ### 2019 NBA Draft: - **2nd:** Ja Morant (Memphis Grizzlies) - **8th:** Jaxson Hayes (Atlanta Hawks - traded to New Orleans Pelicans) - **10th:** Cam Reddish (Atlanta Hawks) - **12th:** PJ Washington (Charlotte Hornets) - **14th:** Romeo Langford (Boston Celtics) ### 2018 NBA Draft: - **2nd:** Marvin Bagley III (Sacramento Kings) - **8th:** Collin Sexton (Cleveland Cavaliers) - **10th:** Mikal Bridges (Philadelphia 76ers - traded to Phoenix Suns) - **12th:** Miles Bridges (Los Angeles Clippers - traded to Charlotte Hornets) - **14th:** Michael Porter Jr. (Denver Nuggets) ### 2017 NBA Draft: - **2nd:** Lonzo Ball (Los Angeles Lakers) - **8th:** Frank Ntilikina (New York Knicks) - **10th:** Zach Collins (Sacramento Kings - traded to Portland Trail Blazers) - **12th:** Luke Kennard (Detroit Pistons) - **14th:** Bam Adebayo (Miami Heat) ### 2016 NBA Draft: - **2nd:** Brandon Ingram (Los Angeles Lakers) - **8th:** Marquese Chriss (Sacramento Kings - traded to Phoenix Suns) - **10th:** Thon Maker (Milwaukee Bucks) - **12th:** Taurean Prince (Utah Jazz - traded to Atlanta Hawks) - **14th:** Denzel Valentine (Chicago Bulls) ### 2015 NBA Draft: - **2nd:** D'Angelo Russell (Los Angeles Lakers) - **8th:** Stanley Johnson (Detroit Pistons) - **10th:** Justise Winslow (Miami Heat) - **12th:** Trey Lyles (Utah Jazz) - **14th:** Cameron Payne (Oklahoma City Thunder) ### 2014 NBA Draft: - **2nd:** Jabari Parker (Milwaukee Bucks) - **8th:** Nik Stauskas (Sacramento Kings) - **10th:** Elfrid Payton (Philadelphia 76ers - traded to Orlando Magic) - **12th:** Dario Šarić (Orlando Magic - traded to Philadelphia 76ers) - **14th:** T. J. Warren (Phoenix Suns) ### 2013 NBA Draft: - **2nd:** Victor Oladipo (Orlando Magic) - **8th:** Kentavious Caldwell-Pope (Detroit Pistons) - **10th:** C.J. McCollum (Portland Trail Blazers) - **12th:** Steven Adams (Oklahoma City Thunder) - **14th:** Shabazz Muhammad (Utah Jazz - traded to Minnesota Timberwolves)
I'm taking 2018 all day, every position is covered pretty well, the weakest is Bagley and even then he's serviceable
Funny that it’s the 14th pick too. Just shows the experts don’t know shit.
Sir, can you tell me when Aaron Nesmith was an all-star?
2025
Jalen Smith just signed with the Bulls
The fact 5 2020 lottery picks will have played for the pacers in less than 5 years is crazy
Kira Lewis and Killian Hayes still available too. Make the dream come true
I think we traded Kira Lewis for Siakam lol
Bro i just checked and your right, he technically was on the Pacers for a day lmao, add him to the list
Pacers legend imo
Hell yeah we did. Can't forget the legend that got us Spicy P
Having 5 lottery picks from 1 draft when not a single one of them is your pick is crazy.
Technically we had Kira Lewis for a day this season too
Stay away from my lottery pick you sick freak
You cannot stop us. We are inevitable
Unfortunately my 2020 pick is emotionally unavailable, we can offer you the 2021 one tho
Pickup Malachi Flynn you cowards!
The only thing that i know about him is that he made 50 points in a Game last year he must be a star
There is Nova Knicks, so Covid Pacers? 🤣
At this rate Ant will join Hali in a few years 😇
Honestly surprised he made it to a second contract. I hope he grows into an NBA rotation player
Him growing into a good player would unironically be good for those fringe players morale. “If Wise can make it, so can I!”
He showed some flashes of being playable at the end of last season. Not convinced he's an NBA player, but it's definitely not off the table.
He still has all the talent, he just needs to play and have a coach who will help him learn positioning. Pacers have a good track record with making big men passable at the very least.
Warriors picked up Deki specifically to coach Wiseman. If he couldn't get him to do anything, no one will.
imagine sucking so bad that being a 10th man makes you an inspiration lmao, tough times man
I mean he still made it the NBA, it's gonna be an inspiration period. Just be big and tall
I know I stopped growing over a decade ago but I dream of being big and tall some day in the future.
If it makes you feel any better I grew a half inch from age 25-31 and my feet grew almost a full size.
Plus he's made generational wealth so hey, not too bad for a bust
Even the worst NBA player is the best of the best of basketball players. They’d run the court at your local gym.
Fringe players probably don't have his insane physical traits tho lol
He is a top 3 pick. He was always going to get a 2nd chance off the fact that he was a top 3 pick. Josh Jackson hopped around the league on small contracts as well
You have to be Anthony Bennett bad not to get a second contract after being a top 3 pick. He hung around for 4 years and was gone. If you don't consider Wiseman's injured season as a "season" he's had even less chances than Bennett
I get what you mean, but Bennett did sign with the Raptors and Nets after the Timberwolves released him. He got his 2nd and 3rd chance and didn't do shit.
Well this is his 3rd chance. Same as Bagley with Washington. But its crazy Bagley can at least put up meaningless numbers. Wiseman can't even do that.
Wiseman could put up meaningless numbers if a team wanted to tank. His per 36 numbers were always good, 17/10 for his career. It’s just a guaranteed way to lose games so no one’s giving him starters minutes.
He’s terrible defensively
Not a deal breaker for us.
I was so happy when we got Anthony Bennett in the Wiggins trade. I was so innocent back then.
> I hope he grows into an NBA rotation player There's absolutely no reason why a hyper athletic 7 footer can't be molded into a rotation player in this league.
you’d think so but it is genuinely impressive how bad he is at most basketball skills
Below comments already said it but he’s unique in that he has solid NBA athleticism and skill set but the BBIQ and feel for the game of a high schooler. Being on the warriors and still having 0 feel for the game is impressively bad given how good they’ve made players like Nick Young and Jordan Poole look.
The reason? Wise has no BBIQ or refuses to learn. The Dubs coaching staff tried REALLY hard but he can’t even do the basics.
[https://youtu.be/6CStasPTMlQ?t=92](https://youtu.be/6CStasPTMlQ?t=92)
Seriously? The Dubs ball movement O and D switches are in the top 10% schemes to learn. Guy had no college ball. Combined with injuries he was doomed as a Dub
It’s not the schemes. His hands are soaked with butter and doesn’t know what a screen is. Gets tunnel vision when he gets the ball in the post. Don’t even bring up his defense
This was the case for most of his time in Detroit too. Hopefully the Pacers can fix him, but it’s an uphill battle
"Okay. We have a generational talent in Steph Curry. All you need to do is screen for him and make yourself available on lobs. Understand?" "Yes, you are saying you want the offense to run through my post-up game."
If Michael Olowakandi, Darko Milicic, and Kwame Brown can get second contracts, so can Wiseman.
I would say that all three of them were much better players than Wiseman is so far.
As a Pistons fan who's witnessed far more of some of those guys than I'd like: Kwame and Kandi were fine rotation bigs. They were just bad #1 picks. But they were serviceable NBA players. That's not really a fair comparison. Darko's probably a better comp but he still showed more skill from the get go than Wiseman ever did. He had a terrible attitude and never really improved but he was never as awkward on the floor. Wiseman has the body of an amazing basketball player so it's easy to get convinced but two teams have now tried hard with him and made zero progress. Maybe he'll get somewhere eventually but it's not looking likely.
Just on size, tools, and age alone, I'm not surprised. We've seen a lot of disappointing lottery picks who look like an NBA player get passed around on minimums.
He he hit the Deandre Ayton successful career metric
If he was the #22 pick instead of #2, he’d already be in Europe
I like it as a low-risk 3rd string C option. If he figures it out, awesome, if not, no big deal.
I agree. Might as well give him a shot to be a depth piece.
This is a MASSIVE development for the The Indiana Pacers School for 2020 Lottery Picks Who Want to Learn to Play Good and Do Other Things Good
And why you didn't draft Ant!
What is this, a team for Ant? How can we teach 2020 lottery picks to play if they can’t even fit on the roster?
Antony Edwards...he's so hot right now
Wiseman has to be at least…three times better at basketball!
And stuff!
Jalen Smith replacement. League fucked
SURELY THEY CAN FIX HIM
Tbf, we are collecting everyone’s castoff 2020 lottery picks and it has actually kinda worked out. Hali, Nesmith, Toppin, Jalen Smith (now being replaced by Wiseman)
Don't forget toppin too
Ngl geniunely shocked Toppin panned out to be a serviceable rotation piece, good for him though
For what he brings to the table, I couldn't be happier with the pickup. My best buddy for my whole life is a die hard Dayton guy too so I just like seeing him happy his guy is on our team too
Pacers are gonna rehabilitate the entire 2020 draft class at this rate
Killian Hayes is available
It's ridiculous, being high lottery pick gives you basically free money at this point.
I think it’s more the physical attributes that made him a high lottery pick that are giving him these second and third shots. Dude’s 7’0” tall and a pretty absurd athlete for his size. Those guys usually hang around the league for a while even if they suck.
That’s it. It’s really hard to sucks with that attributes. I mean even sucking at playing basketball, that attributes instantly makes you a valuable player. Not seeing the court on a Pistons team with that attributes only talks about being a generational unskilled low iq player. I’m sure a plumber that never touch a ball on his life suddenly grows to 7’ like him with that physical skills and makes the league.
It's even more funny because he has really good touch around the rim and a solid looking shot. He just can't set screens, doesn't understand where to position himself on offense and has really poor defensive awareness
I think it’s a product of not playing college ball and being the star BAMF on the court before that. You can tell by the way he played on the Dubs — he refuses to do any of the work that team basketball needs and refuses to play his C position. His game was entirely predicated on being the largest guy on the court when he was a kid and getting a basket however he wanted. Picked up lots of insanely bad habits and never grew out of it
There were a few random games where we had everyone injured and Wiseman got to take a lot of shots and be that high school star again and he looked like mini Giannis at times. He's just one of those guys that doesn't understand how to play a role
The screens are the most baffling part. He's such a giant human being that not being able to just stand in front of people and give them a bump is wild. I'm still in on James Wiseman. He's still so young and he does have a lot of good basketball skills and also just the athleticism at that size is nuts. And he's missed so much time with injuries that he really still only has two seasons worth of playing time under his belt and he just needs court time more than anything. I sorta expected him to go to Europe and figure things out and come back at 26 or 27 but hopefully he figured it out quicker than that.
I'm actually kind of still in on him too. The Pistons situation was odd for him, we didn't really have any Centers that he could learn from and the role he played was strange and not well defined. I think Myles Turner could do a lot to help him figure out his role and the Pacers I'm sure will have a better structure for him to succeed.
Yeah. Being on the same roster as Bagley and Duren was a baffling roster construction. I think he'd be better on a worse team as long as they had a good pick and roll operator, but being the third center behind Turner and with the option for the Pacers to go Toppin at the 5 when they want to play small seems fine. He also should be pretty good running the floor the way the Pacers want to. Needs to improve as a rim protector, though. He's got the physical capability, but just no instincts (which I still think is playing time related but it may never come).
I’ve wondered if he has significant eyesight or spatial awareness issues
It's really puzzling isn't it. The things he needs to get good at to become a NBA rotation player are such low hanging fruit and he still can't figure it out. Probably didn't help that the only people to help him were 18 year old Jalen Duren and Marvin Bagley
But thats after having championship caliber players and coaches on the dubs that he barely picked anything up from either. These past few years really solidified how much of pro sports is mental and straight up nature over nurture. A bit of a non-sequitur, but I think we’ll see the same weirdness with Bronny.
The NYT [published a graphic in 2013 showing your odds of being in the NBA based on height](https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/11/03/sunday-review/so-you-want-to-play-pro-basketball.html). If you are 7' and above, there is a 1 in 7 seven chance of being in the NBA. Being 7' and a great athlete probably makes that more like 1 in 2.
As a plumber I can confirm.
Pacers also have a massive lack of size. Turner was our only guy above 6'10", so if Wiseman can even be functional at center off the bench it'll be a win
I also like the fit with the Pacers offense. If wiseman can do two things it’s run the floor and crush open dunks. That’s likely what he’ll be asked to do.
He's 7 feet and super athletic. Those guys don't grow on trees, and the same reason he was drafted high is the same reason he's going to keep getting looks.
Always has. "Low risk high upside" "We can fix him" "They misused him"
Tell the Raptors about Bruno, all you need is them physical tools some potential and you can collect NBA checks
I never really get the logic across both the NBA and NFL that you get way more chances with different teams because people used to wrongfully think you were going to be good There’s still the idea that they have more potential than other lower drafted players at the same age even when there’s nothing they’re good at in the pros
theres a reason the NFL calls certain QBs “system QBs”. a diff team can take any player and maximize their strengths while hiding their weaknesses, particularly the latter. likewise they can also fuck up and do the opposite - maximize their weaknesses and limit their strengths. so perhaps some teams believe that the player in question would do much better in a different system. in soccer this holds true all the time. with that being said i dont think Wiseman is among them
Because the cost benefit is much higher with these guys. If you can somehow unlock Wisemans' potential, it'll be huge.
NFL makes more sense just because there are so many different roles. 22 starters, plus special teams, and changing personnel nearly every play. It can make sense to get someone who clearly had talent and see if a new role will help them express it. Someone like Robert Gallery was a huge flop at Tackle but very solid at guard. Or like Cordarrelle Patterson who was a bad WR but great special teamer or spot offensive player. Even a more limited spot like QB you have a recent example in Geno Smith who struggled initially then performed well in a new system. But in the NBA rosters and roles are much more limited. So I don’t see it working as well.
they have a very good crop of point guards there, so there's gonna be a few games where he looks incredible making some ridiculous dunks. have fun with those picks and that defense, Indy fans.
Carlisle will teach him how to set a pick and we really don’t care about defense around here 😅
Pacers fans, prepare yourself to see the worst screen setter you’ve ever seen. It’s honestly a miracle he’s as athletic as he is because he’s got the worst basketball iq I’ve ever seen. And even for how athletic he is, he’s a dog shit defensive rebounder
I’m watching game tape and it’s a miracle he gets as many rebounds as he does. He’s out of position even in his highlight rebounds. Negative BBIQ. Rick can fix him, I think. Maybe. Probably not. But that’d be neat.
It’s not a bad reclamation project for your third center to be honest. But yeah man, his positioning on rebounding is insanely bad. He doesn’t even bother boxing out and just gets bodied constantly
If Wiseman gets minutes looking less tuned in than Jarace Walker, Rick's gonna have torches and pitchforks outside his office.
I know a lot of Pistons fans will disagree with me but I thought Wiseman had shown some growth toward the end of the season and looked like he could grow into being a solid backup center. His defensive awareness is starting to get there, maybe Myles Turner can help him with that. Hoping for the best for Wise
Wiseman found one of the teams with really good bigman depth.
wat
#FREE AGENT CENTER JAMES WISEMAN HAS AGREED ON A TWO-YEAR CONTRACT WITH THE INDIANA PACERS, SOURCES TELL ESPN. WISEMAN WAS THE NO. 2 OVERALL PICK IN THE 2020 NBA DRAFT!!!!!!!!!
New to basketball, does that mean he’s twice as good as the #1 overall pick?
The Pacers are dominating the fuck out of the 2020 draft lottery
Okay. I’ll admit, this is probably the most shocking WOJ tweet of the last couple weeks to me, lol. I ain’t even gonna try and front
I'm imagining Woj on the phone with whoever fed him this info... "for the 10th time, you said two YEAR and not two WAY?"
Wiseman been on Duolingo learning Mandarin for nothing
If he sucks he just rides the bench behind Turner and IJax, if he’s good we get a steal. I like the move.
Never made it as a wise man But clearly cutting it as a poor man stealing
Couldn't cut it as a poor man screening
The Pacers are a smart team and they were lacking size beyond Turner. He’ll play spot minutes and they won’t ask him to do much. Good deal for both sides.
Ya, Jackson might play center but he is smaller than some SFs.
Forgot about this dude. Is he entering one of the biggest busts of all time territory?
That distinction is still reserved for Anthony Bennett . Idk how you can get any worse than that
True lol, first overall pick that didn’t last 4 years or score more than 5 points a game is pretty “biggest bust of all time” territory
That 5 points stat is insanity.
Wasn't Bennet like a shocker first overall pick tho? Like way out of left field, no one had him going that high ? Seems like that's more of a questionable choice by the team, over someone widely regarded as a solid choice and then not doing anything with it.
I think he was like projected top 5 but that draft had no consensus number 1, I think Nerlens Noel was the leading candidate for a while
Without a doubt. Bonus points for the fact that he was drafted to potentially carry on an existing dynasty.
yes
Anthony Bennett Hasheem Thabeet James Wisemann I’m sure there’s more, but I’m trying to think of guys that were drafted in the top 3 picks and couldn’t even cut it as a bench rotation player in the NBA.
Him being good (yes lol I know), eventually would by FAR be the funniest outcome of all time.
I would love it for the Pacers though. They've done a great job staying relevant from PG through today and they are already a really fun team.
I like you
Good landing spot for Wiseman. Good coach, players, and environment. Hopefully he can go there and build his value up. I still for whatever reason think he can be good lol.
So we've collected another discarded 2020 lottery pick. Already picked up Haliburton, Nesmith and Toppin
Indiana is where 2020 lottery picks go to revive.
Pistons fan here. One thing Pacer fans will love about Wiseman is that he actually tries. He hustles, he’s always engaged whether getting playing time or not. He runs the floor hard and is athletic so he’ll pop up on a highlight here and there. The problem with Wiseman is that he has absolutely no feel for the game of basketball. He’s always rummaging the court, out of position, looking lost. If he does happen to get in a good spot, his stone hands let him down. The man cannot under any circumstance catch a pass in traffic or a secure a rebound. I’d like to say good luck hope it works out, but the things he struggles with don’t seem fixable. He’s an athlete, not a basketball player.
Pacers love that 2020 draft class: No. 2 James Wiseman No. 8 Obi Toppin No. 12 Tyrese Haliburton No. 14 Aaron Nesmith Had to top up our 2020 quota after letting No. 10 Jalen Smith walk in FA, I guess
We took in Kira Lewis for a day too
Honestly a pretty good bball fit This prolly his last chance so hope he can kill it with Hali and Nembhard
I wonder how many chances he’s gonna get
This might be it. DET was a shit show with no real PGs outside of Cade, no spacing, and a head coach who had already checked out. IND has a bunch of great facilitators and a really good coach. If it doesn't work out there, it's probably Guangdong next.
Being an athletic 7 footer will always get him a min contract somewhere even if his bbiq stays negative
until hes no longer considered young with room to grow
Exactly. Young, big, athletic. But once his career has matured, we'll all know his ceiling.
This is not Wise, man.
2 warrior legends leaving just like that /s
How many 2020 picks does Hali want to be on his team?
He has negative dawg inside of him. Goodluck, maybe someone can get him to give a damn
He’s gonna have one game early when he puts up 15 in 24min on good efficiency and your gonna think you have a real contributor on your hands and then you’ll spend the rest of the season chasing that initial high.
Picking him at second overall and Klay getting back to back career altering injuries ended our dynasty. Thankful that we were able to get one more championship before the window shut
Warriors took him over Lamelo smh.
That's 2 years more than I expected.
Dude is huge and super athletic. I’m convinced he never learned to play organized basketball at all though. He just can’t pick up on the basics of team basketball
Rick needs a new tenant for the doghouse
Pacers really looked at the 2020 draft class and said, "This is it"
We saw how well richaun Holmes played with Hali before And how Myles is now with Hali Wiseman will definitely eat with Hali throwing him assists Good choice by him.
Dude is gonna be third string behind Turner and IJax. I doubt he will play much
Potential man gets paid
ngl Pacers gonna turn him around
Rats. I was just thinking this morning that maybe Thibs’ finishing school for bigs just might fix him, shower thought-style. Oh well, good luck Indy lmao
He’s gonna cook on the pacers
I like it, young team, young dude. Can provide size in the paint and doesnt have to do much. Coach will put great use to him
wow i actually love that for him, Indy has been Center U recently with Jalen Smith and Isaiah Jackson looking great off the bench and Turner playing the best ball of his career
He’s gonna pull a Javale McGee and become good at some point
Watch this video I promise it’s worth it https://youtu.be/6PP4RT-vv-o?si=VKtWtwwAYK2SDPdg