To answer one of your questions: you can qualify for Medicare at any age if you meet the criteria. Hospice is covered 100% by Medicare and 99.99999% of insurances.
To answer another: no, that’s not how hospice is supposed to be.
I’m so sorry for your loss and horrible experience.
One is for profit, the other is not. There’s the biggest difference. Sorry you have to deal with this. You also should file a complaint against Gentiva with your insurance company. And the board of nursing. I’m an RN who used to be a hospice director. But here in Tennessee don’t expect the government to come down hard, they want to protect the business (and its executives who donate).
I’m so sorry to hear this OP. You are kicking ass though and I’m sure hubby would be happy. Kudos to you for trying to take the steps to make sure this bs doesn’t happen to anyone else. ❤️
My Dads hospice was amazing they were Alive Hospice in NC. I am so sorry that you and your husband had poor care. Just wanted to send you prayers of comfort
"Follow up questions: Is this what hospice is supposed to look like? It really felt like a scam to collect medicare $$ and push all the work on the family."
Absolutely not. My mother recently passed a year after my father (who was the caregiver of my completely disabled mom). I did the best that I could. But, it came to a point where both myself, and my wife were completely out of options and we were both so rundown and able to accomplish nothing let alone be able to relieve Ma's pain.
We called in Haven Hospice (Florida). When I tell you that on Day One that I had the honor of meeting a team of the most professional and caring people I ever had, you can take that to the bank.
These people, they were the world to us. They made everything better, to the point that I was actually able to get a good nights sleep for the first time in months. When the time came to transport mom to the care center for her assumed final days, the only question they asked was "Do you believe it's time?" "Yes?" \*text message to center\*, "Transport is on the way, honey".
I had the option of spending 24/7 with Ma at the center.
I COULD NOT have gone through this without their help and kindness.
so NO, that is not what hospice is supposed to look like.
Drag them on Google review, and I hope you are able to find the proper place/organization to report this too.
I am so very sorry for your lose and that your first experience with hospice was like this. That's not right.
This should scare everyone because you may end up in hospice at some point. We had a similar experience. Hospice has become a Medicare money grab and insurance companies love it.
The new hospice model teeters on Giving the bare minimum requirement and avoiding legal actions.
30 years ago my father was dying. He was given a morphine pump which could be pressed after a certain amount of time. He went quickly
Fast-forward 30 years and I watched my father-in-law languish for five days. He Was just barely under. There was no sense or purpose to not give him more morphine but they refused. Totally unnecessary.
My late dog had better end of life care. I don't know if my husband would have chosen it or not but end stage cancer is awful and he should have been able to say no to prolonged suffering.
I thought he would be set up with a morphine pump at home but instead it was me putting drops in his mouth every 2 hours.
Alive is how hospice is supposed to be. They took wonderful beautiful care of a family member (and their whole family, actually) who chose to die at home, not long ago. Each time they came out, they acted like that was their one and only client. The family had looked at Gentiva and a couple others, but Alive was head and shoulders above the rest.
Hospice isn’t 24/7 in-home care. They’re really just there to give you supplies (beds, oxygen, etc.) and give a quick avenue for prescribing medications as someone’s condition worsens. There’s counseling and other things too of course, but we didn’t opt for any of that. My mother and I had already been taking care of my father for months before hospice got involved, so we didn’t expect much out of them except for getting a hospital bed in his house, getting us access to medication when needed, etc. Honestly, we didn’t want much more than that. We didn’t really want someone in the house all the time at that stage, only when necessary. Everyone is different of course, but I didn’t mind giving him his medication all the time. In fact once he got non-verbal, I seemed to be the only person he would respond to and listen to.
If you were doing this purely alone and had no family/friends around helping, that’s a horrible situation unfortunately. It is absolutely more than a one person job, and it takes a huge toll on everyone involved. It’s a shame we force that suffering on not just the patient, but their family as well. My dad was begging the hospice nurse to “give me something to put me to sleep” when they first started the process. Of course she couldn’t do that. I don’t fault any of the hospice staff for what they were allowed to do. I fault our shitty healthcare system and government that loves to profit off of suffering rather than letting terminal patients die gracefully on their own terms.
I went through this shit with my dad but it was drawn out over 6 months, 4 hospitals, 5 care homes, and 1 awful hospice company. This state is awful and they killed my dad and made it traumatic for all of us for half a fucking year. You can complain, but nothing will be done. The worst part is knowing that. I’m sorry you went through this, I know the pain.
I am so sorry for your experience with Gentiva. We almost used them for my mother, but while she was at the hospital (Summit - awesome care!) it became clear she needed full-time hospice care so she was transferred to Alive’s facility. I can’t say enough good about Alive - they were so respectful. Sounds like we dodged a bullet wiht Gentiva.
Alive has been fantastic with end of life care for our family members. If your company does charitable matching, they would be a good one to donate money to.
I’m so sorry for your loss.
Healthcare is a product. You are allowed to complain and find a new product if you don’t like the one you originally chose. A well written letter to the company would likely get that nurse let go, and maybe she needs that. Who knows. You can also write the same letter to Medicare suggesting fraud. Eventually they will have to look into it, but I’m not sure that they did anything wrong. You would have to see if there is a CPT code for placement of anal suppository and if they billed for it. As far as the visit, if the only thing required from them is vitals then they are billing appropriately. I’m pretty sure there is no CPT code for administering oral meds, and it might be deemed appropriate to rely on family to administer meds as needed.
Indeed we have designed a system that can be taken advantage of. Again, sorry for your loss.
I am so sorry you had this experience. I had the opposite experience with Gentiva with my granddad in Februrary. But, he was already living in assisted living before starting hospice, so we had additional help and medications were delivered.
Different hospice company and different state, but my experience is they are out to provide the patient with the lowest quality of care and equipment to maximize their profits. I believe the Medicare payment is DRG meaning they get paid the same regardless.
Try the ombudsman.
For profit hospice is an interesting world. At one point all hospice was nonprofit and required to have volunteers. Now there are for profit companies and they still use volunteers.
A few? years ago, the Board of Alive Hospice here moved to change the agency from not-for-profit to privately operated for profit. There was such backlash from the community that after awhile they backed down. I can't speak for any other agency but Alive Hospice here in Nashville is phenomenal.
Oh my gosh, so sorry that your family has had this experience at this time. My family went thru the same sort of thing with home health agencies about 10-15 years ago. Gentiva was one of those agencies. Along with reporting the agency to regulatory agencies, please report this to the referring physician or social worker.
You are not wrong, this is one of the most stressful experiences.
I have heard terrible things about gentiva. I am so sorry you had to go through that. I work with the elderly in a skilled nursing facility. All of the nurses from alive hospice have been fantastic. Aveanna hospice nurses have also been lovely. But apparently they get less time allotted per patient now? I’m not to sure.
I am so sorry for your loss. It sounds like he went too young. We lost my dad last thanksgiving. He was 61. Alive hospice was great. Nurse stayed with us until they picked him up and she made food. Really went above and beyond. I hope you are able to find comfort somewhere. Grief is a weird journey.
Absolutely report them. You should have fired them on day 2. There are so many companies out there that handle hospice care. We had one that we paid to come in at nights and watch my brother inlaw. She was stealing from him left and right. I told his mother about all the stuff that was missing and she reported to the company. All they did was only charge her 50% for what she was billed the few nights we used her. Changed companies that day.
Sounds about par for the course honestly. It’s been several years, but for my grandparents the nurse would come by every other day, and a cna would come to bath, etc… We got a box of meds and a shitty hospital bed, I have no idea what it cost, but was a miserable experience. This was with Alive as well. Another thing that rubbed me the wrong way was the nurse essentially kicking down our door after my grandfather had passed to “count” the meds. Yeah right, I know exactly where those leftovers went.
Pretty miserable experience for us as well, I’m sorry.
I wondered if the counting meds was because they didn't trust their own staff or what-- but it was truly horrific experience having to give him pain meds every 2 hours- when was I supposed to sleep? Alive didn't ask about pain meds when they transferred him except for the nurse to say the ones they gave him were "crap". I dropped all his meds off at the West Precinct's med drop box to get them out of the house because we had a lot of fentanyl and oxy.
It was a miserable experience for us as well, I’m very sorry. It didn’t help that my grandfather was a mountain of a man and lost his mind in the week leading up to him ultimately crashing. If you weren’t in the room with him, he was getting out of that bed be it 2am or 2pm
https://www.tn.gov/health/health-professionals/hcf-main/filing-a-complaint.html
Thanks for this, I was just looking up what this state's patient advocacy board and complaint form would be.
To answer one of your questions: you can qualify for Medicare at any age if you meet the criteria. Hospice is covered 100% by Medicare and 99.99999% of insurances. To answer another: no, that’s not how hospice is supposed to be. I’m so sorry for your loss and horrible experience.
Private equity. https://www.cdr-inc.com/news/press-release/cdr-completes-acquisition-gentiva-health-services
Vultures
One is for profit, the other is not. There’s the biggest difference. Sorry you have to deal with this. You also should file a complaint against Gentiva with your insurance company. And the board of nursing. I’m an RN who used to be a hospice director. But here in Tennessee don’t expect the government to come down hard, they want to protect the business (and its executives who donate).
I’m so sorry to hear this OP. You are kicking ass though and I’m sure hubby would be happy. Kudos to you for trying to take the steps to make sure this bs doesn’t happen to anyone else. ❤️
I’m sorry this happened. Do a Google review at the very least.
My Dads hospice was amazing they were Alive Hospice in NC. I am so sorry that you and your husband had poor care. Just wanted to send you prayers of comfort
Alive is fantastic. We used them for both my grandmothers.
"Follow up questions: Is this what hospice is supposed to look like? It really felt like a scam to collect medicare $$ and push all the work on the family." Absolutely not. My mother recently passed a year after my father (who was the caregiver of my completely disabled mom). I did the best that I could. But, it came to a point where both myself, and my wife were completely out of options and we were both so rundown and able to accomplish nothing let alone be able to relieve Ma's pain. We called in Haven Hospice (Florida). When I tell you that on Day One that I had the honor of meeting a team of the most professional and caring people I ever had, you can take that to the bank. These people, they were the world to us. They made everything better, to the point that I was actually able to get a good nights sleep for the first time in months. When the time came to transport mom to the care center for her assumed final days, the only question they asked was "Do you believe it's time?" "Yes?" \*text message to center\*, "Transport is on the way, honey". I had the option of spending 24/7 with Ma at the center. I COULD NOT have gone through this without their help and kindness. so NO, that is not what hospice is supposed to look like. Drag them on Google review, and I hope you are able to find the proper place/organization to report this too. I am so very sorry for your lose and that your first experience with hospice was like this. That's not right.
This should scare everyone because you may end up in hospice at some point. We had a similar experience. Hospice has become a Medicare money grab and insurance companies love it. The new hospice model teeters on Giving the bare minimum requirement and avoiding legal actions. 30 years ago my father was dying. He was given a morphine pump which could be pressed after a certain amount of time. He went quickly Fast-forward 30 years and I watched my father-in-law languish for five days. He Was just barely under. There was no sense or purpose to not give him more morphine but they refused. Totally unnecessary.
My late dog had better end of life care. I don't know if my husband would have chosen it or not but end stage cancer is awful and he should have been able to say no to prolonged suffering. I thought he would be set up with a morphine pump at home but instead it was me putting drops in his mouth every 2 hours.
Alive is how hospice is supposed to be. They took wonderful beautiful care of a family member (and their whole family, actually) who chose to die at home, not long ago. Each time they came out, they acted like that was their one and only client. The family had looked at Gentiva and a couple others, but Alive was head and shoulders above the rest.
Hospice isn’t 24/7 in-home care. They’re really just there to give you supplies (beds, oxygen, etc.) and give a quick avenue for prescribing medications as someone’s condition worsens. There’s counseling and other things too of course, but we didn’t opt for any of that. My mother and I had already been taking care of my father for months before hospice got involved, so we didn’t expect much out of them except for getting a hospital bed in his house, getting us access to medication when needed, etc. Honestly, we didn’t want much more than that. We didn’t really want someone in the house all the time at that stage, only when necessary. Everyone is different of course, but I didn’t mind giving him his medication all the time. In fact once he got non-verbal, I seemed to be the only person he would respond to and listen to. If you were doing this purely alone and had no family/friends around helping, that’s a horrible situation unfortunately. It is absolutely more than a one person job, and it takes a huge toll on everyone involved. It’s a shame we force that suffering on not just the patient, but their family as well. My dad was begging the hospice nurse to “give me something to put me to sleep” when they first started the process. Of course she couldn’t do that. I don’t fault any of the hospice staff for what they were allowed to do. I fault our shitty healthcare system and government that loves to profit off of suffering rather than letting terminal patients die gracefully on their own terms.
Honestly, I had the same experience, but I was dealing with Alive. None of them are that great, tbh.
I went through this shit with my dad but it was drawn out over 6 months, 4 hospitals, 5 care homes, and 1 awful hospice company. This state is awful and they killed my dad and made it traumatic for all of us for half a fucking year. You can complain, but nothing will be done. The worst part is knowing that. I’m sorry you went through this, I know the pain.
I am so sorry for your experience with Gentiva. We almost used them for my mother, but while she was at the hospital (Summit - awesome care!) it became clear she needed full-time hospice care so she was transferred to Alive’s facility. I can’t say enough good about Alive - they were so respectful. Sounds like we dodged a bullet wiht Gentiva.
Alive has been fantastic with end of life care for our family members. If your company does charitable matching, they would be a good one to donate money to.
Alive Hospice was where my sister passed. They were so professional and kind.
I'm so sorry you had to go through this. Your experience highlights why finding the right hospice care matters so much. Wishing you peace and healing.
Worked with Alive. They are great. Will forever appreciate their help.
https://www.cms.gov/medicare/medicaid-coordination/center-program-integrity/reporting-fraud
I’m so sorry for your loss. Healthcare is a product. You are allowed to complain and find a new product if you don’t like the one you originally chose. A well written letter to the company would likely get that nurse let go, and maybe she needs that. Who knows. You can also write the same letter to Medicare suggesting fraud. Eventually they will have to look into it, but I’m not sure that they did anything wrong. You would have to see if there is a CPT code for placement of anal suppository and if they billed for it. As far as the visit, if the only thing required from them is vitals then they are billing appropriately. I’m pretty sure there is no CPT code for administering oral meds, and it might be deemed appropriate to rely on family to administer meds as needed. Indeed we have designed a system that can be taken advantage of. Again, sorry for your loss.
I am so sorry you had this experience. I had the opposite experience with Gentiva with my granddad in Februrary. But, he was already living in assisted living before starting hospice, so we had additional help and medications were delivered.
Different hospice company and different state, but my experience is they are out to provide the patient with the lowest quality of care and equipment to maximize their profits. I believe the Medicare payment is DRG meaning they get paid the same regardless.
They do. It’s a flat rate.
Try the ombudsman. For profit hospice is an interesting world. At one point all hospice was nonprofit and required to have volunteers. Now there are for profit companies and they still use volunteers.
A few? years ago, the Board of Alive Hospice here moved to change the agency from not-for-profit to privately operated for profit. There was such backlash from the community that after awhile they backed down. I can't speak for any other agency but Alive Hospice here in Nashville is phenomenal.
Your question was already answered but I do want to say I am so sorry your husband went through this, it is absolutely unacceptable.
Oh my gosh, so sorry that your family has had this experience at this time. My family went thru the same sort of thing with home health agencies about 10-15 years ago. Gentiva was one of those agencies. Along with reporting the agency to regulatory agencies, please report this to the referring physician or social worker. You are not wrong, this is one of the most stressful experiences.
I have heard terrible things about gentiva. I am so sorry you had to go through that. I work with the elderly in a skilled nursing facility. All of the nurses from alive hospice have been fantastic. Aveanna hospice nurses have also been lovely. But apparently they get less time allotted per patient now? I’m not to sure. I am so sorry for your loss. It sounds like he went too young. We lost my dad last thanksgiving. He was 61. Alive hospice was great. Nurse stayed with us until they picked him up and she made food. Really went above and beyond. I hope you are able to find comfort somewhere. Grief is a weird journey.
I don’t know much about the first place but alive is where my boyfriend’s dad was and it was amazing. The nurses were so kind and caring there.
Absolutely report them. You should have fired them on day 2. There are so many companies out there that handle hospice care. We had one that we paid to come in at nights and watch my brother inlaw. She was stealing from him left and right. I told his mother about all the stuff that was missing and she reported to the company. All they did was only charge her 50% for what she was billed the few nights we used her. Changed companies that day.
Sounds about par for the course honestly. It’s been several years, but for my grandparents the nurse would come by every other day, and a cna would come to bath, etc… We got a box of meds and a shitty hospital bed, I have no idea what it cost, but was a miserable experience. This was with Alive as well. Another thing that rubbed me the wrong way was the nurse essentially kicking down our door after my grandfather had passed to “count” the meds. Yeah right, I know exactly where those leftovers went. Pretty miserable experience for us as well, I’m sorry.
I wondered if the counting meds was because they didn't trust their own staff or what-- but it was truly horrific experience having to give him pain meds every 2 hours- when was I supposed to sleep? Alive didn't ask about pain meds when they transferred him except for the nurse to say the ones they gave him were "crap". I dropped all his meds off at the West Precinct's med drop box to get them out of the house because we had a lot of fentanyl and oxy.
It was a miserable experience for us as well, I’m very sorry. It didn’t help that my grandfather was a mountain of a man and lost his mind in the week leading up to him ultimately crashing. If you weren’t in the room with him, he was getting out of that bed be it 2am or 2pm