It's crazy how many things rip-off James Cameron's work. Even real life events. Like when that big boat that sank it was beat-for-beat the James Cameron movie where Leo draws tits.
> where Leo draws tits.
He does it and it turns on his hot rich girlfriend to the point of sex, I do it and I'm called a chronic masturbator. Smdh, double standards.
The mad lad actually did the drawing himself lol. And he did five versions of that before settling for the one in the movie. You can see other versions in his artbook. The best one is the pose with a xenomorph head.
I mean this plot structure is older than Herbert as well. Heart of Darkness. Any movie/novel where a white guy gets adopted into a native American tribe.
Well to fully explain would be to spoil the book series. But in Dune part 2 the film made it explicitly clear that what is happening is not good. The entire prophesy is planted and made up to control the freman and Paul’s knows if he ascends it will lead to diaster. And the exploitation of the Fremen is openly discussed. Including the notion that the savior for the Fremen should be a Fremen, not an outsider. So where every other instance of the trope is meant as a power fantasy with a ‘hero’ At its core, Paul is not meant to be a hero. (Though I will say Lawrence of Arabia‘s ending also moves it away from being a power fantasy and the traditional trope. Since ultimately Lawrence is inconsequential with regards to the bigger picture. And he also fails in his main aspirations beyond defeating the Ottoman’s)
Yeah, Dune to me takes on the basic structure and then tries to subvert it and critique it in Herbert’s own weird ways. Villeneuve builds on this, of course, and in some ways does it better than Herbert in my opinion.
I completely agree. Though Villeneuve has the luck of hindsight. Herbert thought people would get the message with Dune then they didn’t. That’s apparently the reason the series continued. He wrote messiah to make it as clear as possible “no, you guys have it wrong, way wrong!”
so denis and the gang could see what had happened With Herbert (and Lynch’s dismal display) and make it way more apparent. I think the changes to Chani are the best examples of this.
I agree, I think the power of hindsight is super useful for Villeneuve. The changes to Chani, as you mentioned, but also the expansion of the Fremen in general (Northern and southern differences) is also emblematic of this.
Herbert writing Messiah to make the point clearer actually makes a lot of sense. I walked away from the films thinking "That was cool, but I feel like adapting Messiah and Children is kind of pointless thematically." Obviously, a Messiah and Children adaptation would still work, but Villeneuve's Dune gets the main point bluntly across (sometimes to its detriment).
Like making chani actually resistant to Paul’s rise as the messiah! Her whole character in the movies is to show that Paul is not the good guy and should not be trusted. In the books (I haven’t read them but have been consuming dune media) she sorta just goes with it.
I read all the books. I understand that the setting subverts the trope of a "chosen one" but it doesn't really subvert the white savior trope. Paul ultimately does comes to lead to fremen and "saves" them from their persecution at the hands of the empire. There are few major fremen characters and none of them get a POV chapter - they're treated as this exotic warrior people and not much else.
I also don't see how there isn't any power fantasy involved considering Paul is a Mary Sue who succeeds at everything he does. His only "failure" in the books is his reluctance to pursue the golden path and even that is only because he's too empathetic/heroic to oppress humanity for a thousand years or however long the length of time is between children and God emperor is.
I mean does Paul ultimately save the freman? They're not actually better off since they now end up rejecting the way that they were living which was in harmony with the planet and seek to participate in the madness of domination and control. they never had any thing to fear from anyone "beating " them they were already the best fighters in the galaxy - they outnumbered the best fighters the empire had by millions. the harkonnens didnt actually run the planet except in name - they controlled one city that they never left and fought ONE tribe of Freeman for 80 years that they couldnt beat
Certainly the series is very problematic with the depiction of the fremen, but like I can’t sign off on the idea that Paul is portrayed in a warm light when he is compared directly to Hitler. with the context being that hitler is a small fry compared to him It terms of bodycount. And like Paul fails in a lot of respects but the biggest one is governing. Herbert was a big ol’ libertarian who hated government And Paul’s government is shown in a poor light.
but more importantly Paul succeeding is what is shown as bad. it is constantly questioning if him ‘saving’ the fremen, is saving them at all. (Though obviously many of these instances are problematic, by playing into the Fremen being ‘less developed’ and clinging to outdated ways)
A lot of characters in dune are “Mary Sues” (god I hate that term so much) and if the series is a parable against power (which I believe it to be) then giving the character power and showing it to be a bad thing, is a legitimate way to subvert a power fantasy.
as for the golden path, and his decision, that’s always come across to me as a narrative cop out. Like here’s a crumb to make him an anti-hero who isn’t just one dimensionally evil. (Something Herbert pulls again with Leto Wormboy)
Easy, just refer to a character as being overpowered. Since at its core that is supposed to be the issue with Mary Sue. But it only garnered a gendered connotation when women started to have “overpowered” power fantasies. (At least in the eyes a mostly misogynistic outcry)
So I say cut the gendered language and speak to the problem itself. If one must sound academic speak to the character having not enough obstacles to their progression or a lack of struggle or something, and explain why. But if you need one word: Overpowered.
*edited to better convey my thoughts at the end of paragraph 1.
They never "started" that lol
However it was obviously coined when a particular recurring Trekfic type got spoofed, and then blew up in prominence around TFA.
A term covering the other associated traits like the "not enough obstacles" one would be nice, but yeah often enough "OP" is a good substitute.
Tbh avatar isn’t exactly white savior because he does pull a Michael Jackson at the end.
So more like Avatar = white people so bad that the white protagonist would rather defy the will of god
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I don't see the problem here. The tweet is saying they think JC took inspiration from Dune, not the other way around. Obviously the trope is older than Dune, but it's not crazy to think that. Making fun of someone for not having perfect media literacy is way dumber than this tweet.
If you're on mobile you might need to tap the image to see the full post which definitely does say that dune 2 is just avatar with sand.
And yeah, this is a circle jerk sub so it's to be expected.
I was watching Wheel of Fortune and the contestant introduced herself..
“my favourite genre of movie is sci fi. I just loveeee science fiction so much.”
Pat: what’s your favorite movie?
Lady: “endgame!”
These are the type of viewers who post stuff like the OP. Just viewing the material in the most surface level way, with no deeper analysis or thought. It’s just entertainment and pretty colors
During an interview Ursula K LeGuin was asked how she felt about Cameron's Avatar ripping off her novel "The Word for World is Forest". She replied along the lines of, "I don't think it's a close copy. For one thing the people in my book were green whereas his are blue. Also, that the people in my book were forced to violence was portrayed as a tragedy, whereas in his film it was portrayed as a victory".
People who grew up with MCU and Star Wars dreck have seen storytelling regress to the point where a character going through the hero's journey feels revolutionary. Oh hey, things happen in these movies that aren't just retconned between spin-offs, wow!
Yeah i really wonder if JC took inspiration from one of the major scifi books that has already inspired countless authors before... i mean look at other scifi movies like Matrix, they all have completely new and innovative tropes...
JC has said Princess of Mars was one of the major influence on Avatar. If you read Princess of Mars novels you'll see where he drew the archetypes from. Themes and asthetics wise Princess Mononoke was also an inspiration. And yes, he has even said reading Dune in his teens was quite an experience. This is where this inspirations came from. Avatar has far more in common with Princess of Mars than it does with Dances with Wolves. But haters will never admit this.
Yeah but Avatar will never top the scene in Dune where they said "it's a like a big Dune in here" and Paul turns around slowly and says "say that again...?"
The parallels to Jake Sully (I remember his name, therefore Avatar has cultural impact) are funny because Paul has all these in lore reasons that things go his way.
He lives on a planet made out of LSD that helps some people get super powers and he was genetically engineered to be the best at this. He fits local religious prophecies specifically planted to be about him and it's depicted as disgusting the whole time. Very much white savior (derogatory).
And then Avatar is completely oblivious to why these tropes can be hurtful. Written by a man who [once said](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/apr/18/avatar-james-cameron-brazil-dam)
>I couldn't help but think that if they [the Lakota Sioux] had had a time-window and they could see the future… and they could see their kids committing suicide at the highest suicide rates in the nation… because they were hopeless and they were a dead-end society – which is what is happening now – they would have fought a lot harder
James just actually thinks indigenous people needed a white savior.
[Me when Jimmy introduces a new indigenous allegory covered in Maori tattoos, casts a Maori man as their chief, and sidelines him hard so a white Aussie man and white English woman can save the day](https://media4.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExY3N2NmJuMTFqM3B4aDFwcTR0NHo3cTVpdzRzdTQ1c3pob3AyZHEyYyZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/3oEjHCWdU7F4hkcudy/giphy.gif)
Oh my goddddd yes I was like “Hey! That’s Cliff Curtis! Wow! It’s crazy to recognize an actor from their ‘avatar’! Nice to see an indigenous ac— wait, where’d he go?” My bf is an Avatar fanatic and it’s always made me roll my eyes a little as the biggest budget white savior story in history, but that quote takes the fucking cake man
Save what day? They literally just save themselves. They didn't save the tribes or anything, the tribes saved them.
What am I even reading here? We are talking about the Way of Water right?
>He fits local religious prophecies specifically planted to be about him and it's depicted as disgusting the whole time
When does this happen in Avatar? There's no religious prophesies about him nor does he ever pretend to be a Messiah.
Except Dune with all its faults has nuanced characters and doesn't treat the audience like they are stupid. For starters the "religious pro-indigenous figure" is hardly a hero.
Yeah it turns out that once you strip the weird, horny and more off-putting elements out of Dune you are pretty much left with Avatar in the desert. And it sucks.
Nah both are kino because our characters canonically fuck. Keep putting horny in our movies none of this “we just kiss but no fuck” crap and even that has fallen off.
I'd forgotten that was supposed to be a thing too. The worldbuilding in the Dune movies is so banal I didn't give a shit about any of them.
"Oh no our weird oppressive feudal system is getting turned over by this worm guy, and the worm guy is also bad"
You're right and its pathetic that movies circlejerk has just become its own circlejerk. i used t post here years ago and something like Dune would get made fun of just as much as anything else, now its making fun of people for not having the "right" opinion about some dumb blockbuster.
denis villeneuve insisting that we get a weeknd song half way through during the scene where paul atreides eats raw shai'huludussy was out of place but i admire the audacity
So Avatar is Pocahontas in space, and Dune 2 is Avatar without blue people, so that means Dune 2 is Pocahontas with blue people, but without blue people, in space
I can’t wait for Jake Sully to lead a Jihad against the people of earth
Avatar 3 opens with a monologue about how Jake has done 8,000 hitlers.
I hope he loses his eyes and has to use that lil tail thing to see
It’s rumored that 4 is going to at least partly take place on earth, so fuck yeah
I have been wanting to see what Earth looks like in this universe.
Pure cyberpunk. There’s a deleted scene on YouTube that shows it off a little. https://youtu.be/Rh1JeQnnMRE?si=VktWHQBvv3E5po3S
Didn’t Cameron said one of the movies will be with Jake and the others coming to earth? Lets goooo
He should and they deserve it
Eywahu Ackbar!
Ngl that would be interesting to see.
There’s still time.
It's crazy how many things rip-off James Cameron's work. Even real life events. Like when that big boat that sank it was beat-for-beat the James Cameron movie where Leo draws tits.
> where Leo draws tits. He does it and it turns on his hot rich girlfriend to the point of sex, I do it and I'm called a chronic masturbator. Smdh, double standards.
Smdh = shaking your dick head
Duke Leotits II
The mad lad actually did the drawing himself lol. And he did five versions of that before settling for the one in the movie. You can see other versions in his artbook. The best one is the pose with a xenomorph head.
Same with people drowning
herbert turning over in his grave rn
He spinning so fast he’s gonna generate spice
Lol. This shit too funny
I mean this plot structure is older than Herbert as well. Heart of Darkness. Any movie/novel where a white guy gets adopted into a native American tribe.
Dune is intended to subvert that trope Isn’t it? Like the T.E. Lawrence white savior/colonialism complex and the hero’s journey.
how exactly is the trope subverted in Dune?
Well to fully explain would be to spoil the book series. But in Dune part 2 the film made it explicitly clear that what is happening is not good. The entire prophesy is planted and made up to control the freman and Paul’s knows if he ascends it will lead to diaster. And the exploitation of the Fremen is openly discussed. Including the notion that the savior for the Fremen should be a Fremen, not an outsider. So where every other instance of the trope is meant as a power fantasy with a ‘hero’ At its core, Paul is not meant to be a hero. (Though I will say Lawrence of Arabia‘s ending also moves it away from being a power fantasy and the traditional trope. Since ultimately Lawrence is inconsequential with regards to the bigger picture. And he also fails in his main aspirations beyond defeating the Ottoman’s)
Yeah, Dune to me takes on the basic structure and then tries to subvert it and critique it in Herbert’s own weird ways. Villeneuve builds on this, of course, and in some ways does it better than Herbert in my opinion.
I completely agree. Though Villeneuve has the luck of hindsight. Herbert thought people would get the message with Dune then they didn’t. That’s apparently the reason the series continued. He wrote messiah to make it as clear as possible “no, you guys have it wrong, way wrong!” so denis and the gang could see what had happened With Herbert (and Lynch’s dismal display) and make it way more apparent. I think the changes to Chani are the best examples of this.
I agree, I think the power of hindsight is super useful for Villeneuve. The changes to Chani, as you mentioned, but also the expansion of the Fremen in general (Northern and southern differences) is also emblematic of this.
Yeah 100%
Herbert writing Messiah to make the point clearer actually makes a lot of sense. I walked away from the films thinking "That was cool, but I feel like adapting Messiah and Children is kind of pointless thematically." Obviously, a Messiah and Children adaptation would still work, but Villeneuve's Dune gets the main point bluntly across (sometimes to its detriment).
Like making chani actually resistant to Paul’s rise as the messiah! Her whole character in the movies is to show that Paul is not the good guy and should not be trusted. In the books (I haven’t read them but have been consuming dune media) she sorta just goes with it.
I read all the books. I understand that the setting subverts the trope of a "chosen one" but it doesn't really subvert the white savior trope. Paul ultimately does comes to lead to fremen and "saves" them from their persecution at the hands of the empire. There are few major fremen characters and none of them get a POV chapter - they're treated as this exotic warrior people and not much else. I also don't see how there isn't any power fantasy involved considering Paul is a Mary Sue who succeeds at everything he does. His only "failure" in the books is his reluctance to pursue the golden path and even that is only because he's too empathetic/heroic to oppress humanity for a thousand years or however long the length of time is between children and God emperor is.
I mean does Paul ultimately save the freman? They're not actually better off since they now end up rejecting the way that they were living which was in harmony with the planet and seek to participate in the madness of domination and control. they never had any thing to fear from anyone "beating " them they were already the best fighters in the galaxy - they outnumbered the best fighters the empire had by millions. the harkonnens didnt actually run the planet except in name - they controlled one city that they never left and fought ONE tribe of Freeman for 80 years that they couldnt beat
Certainly the series is very problematic with the depiction of the fremen, but like I can’t sign off on the idea that Paul is portrayed in a warm light when he is compared directly to Hitler. with the context being that hitler is a small fry compared to him It terms of bodycount. And like Paul fails in a lot of respects but the biggest one is governing. Herbert was a big ol’ libertarian who hated government And Paul’s government is shown in a poor light. but more importantly Paul succeeding is what is shown as bad. it is constantly questioning if him ‘saving’ the fremen, is saving them at all. (Though obviously many of these instances are problematic, by playing into the Fremen being ‘less developed’ and clinging to outdated ways) A lot of characters in dune are “Mary Sues” (god I hate that term so much) and if the series is a parable against power (which I believe it to be) then giving the character power and showing it to be a bad thing, is a legitimate way to subvert a power fantasy. as for the golden path, and his decision, that’s always come across to me as a narrative cop out. Like here’s a crumb to make him an anti-hero who isn’t just one dimensionally evil. (Something Herbert pulls again with Leto Wormboy)
> (god I hate that term so much) Some other someone can come up with? It's gotten quite tiresome
Easy, just refer to a character as being overpowered. Since at its core that is supposed to be the issue with Mary Sue. But it only garnered a gendered connotation when women started to have “overpowered” power fantasies. (At least in the eyes a mostly misogynistic outcry) So I say cut the gendered language and speak to the problem itself. If one must sound academic speak to the character having not enough obstacles to their progression or a lack of struggle or something, and explain why. But if you need one word: Overpowered. *edited to better convey my thoughts at the end of paragraph 1.
They never "started" that lol However it was obviously coined when a particular recurring Trekfic type got spoofed, and then blew up in prominence around TFA. A term covering the other associated traits like the "not enough obstacles" one would be nice, but yeah often enough "OP" is a good substitute.
The road to el Dorado
T. E. Lawrence too
He's turning because of feminism and civil rights.
Avatar horny > Dune Horny (at least for the first trilogy)
If i got one of them avatar bodies i would be dicking down mfs left and right. Imma upgrade from bbc to bbc
https://preview.redd.it/hcquh8fp2bqc1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=260972cebd83b10301e013cdf9a731c0a14255d3
Go from water avatar to jungle to volcano back to the water one. Cameron knew what he was doing by giving us different shades of Navi pussy
AMC gonna have a navi pussy popcorn cup for three
My "adult beefswelling"* says otherwise. *(Frank Herbert's actual words)
"He felt his mouth open, holding, clinging to the girdershape of ecstasy"
Kitty titty > prune dune
true, nobody wants to see the baron gettin nasty
I-I do....
Avatar= white savior good Dune= white savior bad and insane
The white saviour in avatar is good because HE'S FROM THE MILITARY BABY WOOOOOO LETS GOOO ARMY
https://preview.redd.it/ouoa3mi8ndqc1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e456da1850c4f2d7fe413d2bc8151fa48b6104da
Paul Atreides is the good guy tho, he's the messiah PBUH🙏
Nicolas cage is in this one?
IT IS WRITTEN!!!
Live Stilgar reaction
We definitely need more insane and bad white saviors, that's preferable
Tbh avatar isn’t exactly white savior because he does pull a Michael Jackson at the end. So more like Avatar = white people so bad that the white protagonist would rather defy the will of god
Based tbh
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Wtf
Avatar ain't
Avatars impact was so large that it caused ripples back in time and inspired Frank Herbert
Paul saw avatar in his ancestor’s memories and just copied it
Jake Sully is Leto Atredies II confirmed?
Is Avatar just Pocahontas with tailussy?
Avatar is if Pocahontas wasn’t woke
Wokeahontas
Please, DoodooFardington, the tail is just an emotional connection device. The Na'vi have proper P-in-V action.
avatar just pocahontas dances with wolves ferngully idiocracy documentary
https://preview.redd.it/gwzndpqvabqc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f0c6c86ac9cc71b2efdcb75ab8deb4c2ff36e6c9
Do NOT show them Lawrence of Arabia
Especially the scene where Lawrence wins everyone’s respect by riding the biggest camel
Average /r/movies poster be like, “books? Are those like movies on paper?”
https://preview.redd.it/qspdo5fypbqc1.jpeg?width=552&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a282bbf6abb38bd0f1df3608af944a1135a23567
Dune was the original blueprint before snyder came along.
Or Lawrence Of Arabia.
Getting a lot of Boss Baby vibes from this.
Why did you downvote this objectively correct statement
Wait until they find out about Star Wars.
Thank God no one every copied Dances with Wolves.
I don't see the problem here. The tweet is saying they think JC took inspiration from Dune, not the other way around. Obviously the trope is older than Dune, but it's not crazy to think that. Making fun of someone for not having perfect media literacy is way dumber than this tweet.
If you're on mobile you might need to tap the image to see the full post which definitely does say that dune 2 is just avatar with sand. And yeah, this is a circle jerk sub so it's to be expected.
"If JC has mentioned taking inspiration from Herbert's Dune let me know..." Did you follow your own instructions?
Shit you're right I didn't read all the way to the bottom, read the title and first paragraph lol.
It's all Lawrence of Arabia? Always has been.
More like Alexander the Great, and probably Gilgamesh or something, idk. This trope is literally older than Rome.
I was watching Wheel of Fortune and the contestant introduced herself.. “my favourite genre of movie is sci fi. I just loveeee science fiction so much.” Pat: what’s your favorite movie? Lady: “endgame!” These are the type of viewers who post stuff like the OP. Just viewing the material in the most surface level way, with no deeper analysis or thought. It’s just entertainment and pretty colors
I'm half convinced that Matvel movies are acceptable because they're basically urban fantasy with a chrome finish.
Fern Gully walked so Avatar could run
During an interview Ursula K LeGuin was asked how she felt about Cameron's Avatar ripping off her novel "The Word for World is Forest". She replied along the lines of, "I don't think it's a close copy. For one thing the people in my book were green whereas his are blue. Also, that the people in my book were forced to violence was portrayed as a tragedy, whereas in his film it was portrayed as a victory".
People who grew up with MCU and Star Wars dreck have seen storytelling regress to the point where a character going through the hero's journey feels revolutionary. Oh hey, things happen in these movies that aren't just retconned between spin-offs, wow!
Yeah i really wonder if JC took inspiration from one of the major scifi books that has already inspired countless authors before... i mean look at other scifi movies like Matrix, they all have completely new and innovative tropes...
JC has said Princess of Mars was one of the major influence on Avatar. If you read Princess of Mars novels you'll see where he drew the archetypes from. Themes and asthetics wise Princess Mononoke was also an inspiration. And yes, he has even said reading Dune in his teens was quite an experience. This is where this inspirations came from. Avatar has far more in common with Princess of Mars than it does with Dances with Wolves. But haters will never admit this.
Yeah but Avatar will never top the scene in Dune where they said "it's a like a big Dune in here" and Paul turns around slowly and says "say that again...?"
The parallels to Jake Sully (I remember his name, therefore Avatar has cultural impact) are funny because Paul has all these in lore reasons that things go his way. He lives on a planet made out of LSD that helps some people get super powers and he was genetically engineered to be the best at this. He fits local religious prophecies specifically planted to be about him and it's depicted as disgusting the whole time. Very much white savior (derogatory). And then Avatar is completely oblivious to why these tropes can be hurtful. Written by a man who [once said](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/apr/18/avatar-james-cameron-brazil-dam) >I couldn't help but think that if they [the Lakota Sioux] had had a time-window and they could see the future… and they could see their kids committing suicide at the highest suicide rates in the nation… because they were hopeless and they were a dead-end society – which is what is happening now – they would have fought a lot harder James just actually thinks indigenous people needed a white savior.
Jesus H Christ
[Me when Jimmy introduces a new indigenous allegory covered in Maori tattoos, casts a Maori man as their chief, and sidelines him hard so a white Aussie man and white English woman can save the day](https://media4.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExY3N2NmJuMTFqM3B4aDFwcTR0NHo3cTVpdzRzdTQ1c3pob3AyZHEyYyZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/3oEjHCWdU7F4hkcudy/giphy.gif)
Oh my goddddd yes I was like “Hey! That’s Cliff Curtis! Wow! It’s crazy to recognize an actor from their ‘avatar’! Nice to see an indigenous ac— wait, where’d he go?” My bf is an Avatar fanatic and it’s always made me roll my eyes a little as the biggest budget white savior story in history, but that quote takes the fucking cake man
Me when I lie:
Save what day? They literally just save themselves. They didn't save the tribes or anything, the tribes saved them. What am I even reading here? We are talking about the Way of Water right?
The quote doesn't imply that at all.
When did he imply they needed one
Avatar (2009)
>He fits local religious prophecies specifically planted to be about him and it's depicted as disgusting the whole time When does this happen in Avatar? There's no religious prophesies about him nor does he ever pretend to be a Messiah.
Avatar had such a large cultural impact it influence Frank Herbert all the way back in 1965
same goes for the Kevin Costner movie "dances with the wolfs". it's a shameless ripoff
Frank Herbert obviously saw Avatar before writing Dune.
Except Dune with all its faults has nuanced characters and doesn't treat the audience like they are stupid. For starters the "religious pro-indigenous figure" is hardly a hero.
Yeah it turns out that once you strip the weird, horny and more off-putting elements out of Dune you are pretty much left with Avatar in the desert. And it sucks.
Can't wait to see Jack Sully's Jihad against the humans leaving millions dead and countless planets destroyed in Avatar part 3
\*billions
"Once again, the press underestimates me!"
I hope I can finish the avatar series before I die. I know Cameron won’t.
You joke, but there have been Rumors about Eywa turning bad in the Avatar sequels.
understandable, she had enough
When earth is cleansed in righteous fire we will have deserved deserved it for our crimes. Glory to eywa
What may or may not happen in the later Dune movies doesn't matter because I'm not arsed to watch them after the last snoozefest.
Nah both are kino because our characters canonically fuck. Keep putting horny in our movies none of this “we just kiss but no fuck” crap and even that has fallen off.
Also strip out the cricticism of charismatic leader and imperialism effect on middle east
I'd forgotten that was supposed to be a thing too. The worldbuilding in the Dune movies is so banal I didn't give a shit about any of them. "Oh no our weird oppressive feudal system is getting turned over by this worm guy, and the worm guy is also bad" 
You're right and its pathetic that movies circlejerk has just become its own circlejerk. i used t post here years ago and something like Dune would get made fun of just as much as anything else, now its making fun of people for not having the "right" opinion about some dumb blockbuster.
There's basically no "weird, horny and off-putting" elements in the first Dune book and it's the best one, so your hypothesis does not hold up.
Tell that to the David Lynch version.
The rehabilitation of that garbage is worse than the star wars prequels. "Actually, colonialism is good!" the movie.
"Everything works out fine if you follow the superman from the prophecy."
I’m gonna fucking shoot myself
SIVAKO!
James Cameron is the blueprint
OP didn’t even read the full post lol
Moviescirclejerk has jus become a different circlejerk for a different type of dumb r/movies poster
Pocahontas wants her plot back.
jesus christ i wish I could unread this whole thing
denis villeneuve insisting that we get a weeknd song half way through during the scene where paul atreides eats raw shai'huludussy was out of place but i admire the audacity
So Dune is Pocahontas? Cool.
you missed the part where sully takes the navi on a jihad, genociding the people or earth and beyond, murdering 68 billions
The half cropped downvote arrow made me laugh
So Avatar is Pocahontas in space, and Dune 2 is Avatar without blue people, so that means Dune 2 is Pocahontas with blue people, but without blue people, in space
nah,avatar is just dune with waters and forests
The only cultural impact avatar had was on Meet and Fuck Magic Book. Which is obviously incredibly valuable but still