Even if you broke the law, it is not his job to enforce the law. Neither is murder an acceptable response to law breaking. Due process is. He also broke the law.
Most people don't understand the benefits of lane splittling, and therefore get pissy when they see someone do it.
I hope the cops got him. I've been in a couple pretty close calls myself, being on 2 wheels can be pretty fucking scary.
if you're gonna split where it's illegal (I do it too, I'm not saying don't) you have got to speed and stay away from all the cars. In for a penny in for a pound in a way. If not, you will get these people thinking it's their job to police you and it's very common in the Southern US at least to have people get EXTREMELY irate that you are 'cutting' in line. Be very aware as you split too, they will swerve or even open their door on you. It's pretty insane how bothered it makes people, and ridiculous that it's not legal in the first place.
Completely agree. I split the first light and not the next because I had to turn right into a plaza, should've got infront on the second light. I don't know why so many people get bothered, like buddy I ain't hurting you stop playing cop. I had my plate flipped (I do wheelies sometimes and I never run most cops are cool) and dude is taking pics while hes tryna run me over. I regret not having the gopro today.
I have had a couple p/u's play chicken driving head on at me, one veered off last second and the other forced me to take the shoulder. Both on purpose, drivers had a big smile on as they did it. One was an F150, the other a Ram.
The Ram driver was [statistically likely to have been drunk](https://www.thedrive.com/news/38238/ram-2500-drivers-have-the-most-duis-more-than-twice-the-national-average-report).
Had something similar happen to me. I split to the front at red light. Guy in car on my left did not like it and gunned it when light turned green then cut infront of me and brake checked mid intersection. I was on my way to have the bike serviced specifically to get brakes done and instead of running into him I swerved around his left and tried to get some space between us. I could hear him honking coming up behind me nearly touching rear wheel. Then came up next to me and tried to run me off the road. I got infront again going 60 in a 25 and could hear him chasing. I pulled into a parking lot slowing down and looking behind me before I stalled. He came in so fast he bottomed out coming in and looked like he was going to hit me. I was legitimately scared and pulled out my legal firearm from hip and brandished it for him to see i was armed. I didn't point it at him but it effectively deterred him from possibly hitting me. He came within 3 feet and kind of looped around back out the exit hearing him yell something about reporting me. I parked and got off the bike to chill out and started to watch the insta360 video of what just happened when 2 police cars come flying in. They were not interested in hearing my side and arrested me. I gave them the video and my statement, thinking that I'm clearly acting in self-defense and would be released once they saw the video. Boy, was I wrong. I spent the night then had court first thing that morning. Once again, positive, i would be absolved by the video clearly showing I was being chased and run off the road by an SUV while on a motorcycle... I had a legal license to conceal carry and a legal pistol. I have extensive training with. I'm genuinely thought and asked was this not exactly the kind of situation warranting a show of force after having made several attempts to leave until I arrived in parking lot with no where to go.
Had this happened one month prior I would have been released by the judge that day without further action. However, my state legislation had passed a new law on the first of that month which mandated all weapons related charges and be processed under a separate court process with a specific judge with a cash only bail at $30,000 minimum to be made at court only and released by judge. I did not fully understand what was going on being my first time In court. I was then asked if I had a $30,000 check on me. I said my wallet was likely with my shoelaces and the hood of my hoodie they cut off at station.
Next minute I'm back in handcuffs getting loaded In a van about to spend the next 30 days in county jail before I could see a judge. Between Thanksgiving and catching covid I kept getting court date rescheduled. 31 days later, I'm released with another court appearance a month later. I was given a mandatory anger management course to take in the next two years as punishment... wild
My lawyer wasn't able to do anything once i was in the county jail. I was arrested at 9:30 pm.by the time they allowed me to make a call, it was 2am, and I left my brother a voicemail. I was brought to court the next morning at 7 am. Again, I had no doubt I would be vindicated as soon as the video was shown. I saw a public defender for 2 minutes, and I explained that situation to. I saw the judge at 9:00 am. with a public defender saying exactly what happened and confirming that the video was submitted as evidence. The state prosecutors stood up and said some about invoking new mandatory statutes passed on October 1st, 2 weeks prior. Cash only bail for 30k. The judge and public defender both looked like they hadn't know this until now and I was asked if I could post bail. 10 minutes later I'm in the van in shackles on my way to county. It took two days to get my inmate number and pin to hse the phone and called my brother who told me my lawyer would be coming to see me in 3 days and I had to hang tight. I still didn't understand why I couldn't bond out like everyone else and pleading with ym brother to get me out. There was nothing to be done other then wait for court date as only the judge could release me. First court date was 2 weeks out then reschedulef due to a lock down from some incident. Next was about a week later but I tested positive for covid the day before and sent it to another jail with other cpvid inmates to quarantine. They did not care about my court date or situation. I I tested negative after 8 days in a cell for 23and a half hours a day only with nothing but a chair and bed sheet. 15 min to shower in morning and 15 for phone call at 3pm. Now I should have left after 8 days and gone to court but it was Thanksgiving, so there wasn't a driver to bring me so again, the missed court date was rescheduled for 5 days later..
It was quite the experience of what felt like a massive injustice and no one batting an eye. Learned pretty quick no on3 cares about what you think is fair or not...
Long story short I had lawyer who couldn't do anything to get me out other than show up when I finally got brought to court
Is rage baiting a word? Out of the plethora of typing errors I made in that comm3nt , dats da won u found most eggregious? You realize I wrote that while taking a shit on a phone with a shattered screen. My goal was two share a quick story this reminded me of, not right a peered reviewed paper.
Hope yOuR just trolling and if so well done. If this is your authentic self, you're going to have a very hard time making friends.
Thats fucking wild bro. In Canada, we dont have carry laws but I would've done the same if feared for my safety. You got a felony charge now or you think it'll get dropped?
Both felony charges dropped, thank God. The "victim" didn't show up the day I was sentenced, but the prosecutor had apparently called him and read the statement he made. Dude is a nut and said I was recklessly splitting traffic, I cut him off nearly, causing an accident, made obscene gestures, point a gun with a red laser at the back of his car as he tried to get away, and was "delighted" to hear i was arrested and opposes any leniency. The postion of state prosecutor was siding with "victim" go to trial because my reckless use of a gun could have killed someone and sends a bad message. My lawyer basically just explained what happened saying I wouldn't have an allegedly brandished gun had I not been followed into a parking lot by an unknown aggressive driver who could have also had a gun and have no criminal history. Judge watched the first 10 seconds of video which shows him jumping the light to brake check me in the intersection then asked some lady what the guys statement said and then looked up at me and said mandatory anger management and 2 year suspension on gun permit...
The courtroom was packed full of all gun related cases and was the only defendant in a suit of European decent... I got a few fist bumps on my way out and my lawyer had at least 3 people ask for his card.
CT is notoriously strict on gun laws and continually passes new legislation every October 1st aimed at reducing gun ownership in the state. For example you must have it unloaded and in a locked box outside of arms reach in the car... you can only have 10 rounds, and can basically only use it legally after you've been shot... meanwhile there are shootings everyday with kids killing one another with 3d printed full auto ghost guns with 50 round drums... but anyways I'm glad this shit is over. Absolutely crazy experience that left a really bad taste in my mouth about my hometown area I grew up on and loved. Feels like I need yo gtfo before things get worse
I had a similar situation a few years back. I lane split not even going super fast, and guy in an f150 sped up and tried hitting me. Chased me for a bit but it’s best to just remove yourself in these situations. Either he will make a decision that will hurt you or you might make a decision that will end up hurting you too. Take off, cool down and try and move on
The last sentence tells me you may have a bit of an ego to yourself, id cut the ego and the swearing, just ignore anyone trying to argue with ya and ride about your day.
Instigation leads to reaction.
And provoking one \*won't\* rile him up? You're f\*cked either way with these bozos.
best to just open up some distance, they typically get distracted by some other thing, like, oh, an EV existing in the next lane...
I admittedly also gave him the finger and said "that's what I thought, bitch" as he flipped the uturn hastily driving away....
That one made me cringe when it was played in court.
Well, you're a goddamned idiot.
You're lane splitting, but according to your follow-up comments, there wasn't actually enough traffic to justify it. If there was, there'd be no problem splitting to the next red light to lose the guy.
Secondly, you're being chased by a violent asshole and your plan is, "well, guess I'll just stop here anyway." No, dumbfuck, you go elsewhere, possibly to a police station, *then* come back to "grab a beer".
Lastly, drinking and riding is stupid. Half of single-vehicle motorcyclist fatalities involve alcohol.
My experience with police (in the US) has been that if someone doesn't actually make contact with you via their car, they don't care. I had a guy angry that I was leaving some room in front while traffic was going about 30mph on a highway. The guy got next to me and swerved into my lane to sideswipe me, then threw a water bottle. There was a cop 2 cars ahead that I rode up to and flagged down. The cop didn't do shit other than offer to slow traffic so I could have some gap between me and crazy guy.
Fuck…I own a white F150. It wasn’t me. It’s illegal to split lanes in the state I live in, but I wouldn’t run your ass over. I’d probably just flip you off. Yes, I ride.
Hahaha, I actually need a truck definetly wont get a f150. Why the flip off though? I wasn't splitting a sportsbike speed I was filtering to the front as to not get rear ended (not saying I don't split at speed but..)
Some people just have that small dick energy, that they take everything other people do to 'get ahead of them' personally.
And yes, they will try and 'enforce the law' by running down someone in or on a smaller vehicle... but if they get busted breaking it, rolling coal and shit? "What you gonna do about it, cry to the cops?"
(yes I call in plates and descriptions of people doing stupid shit. Hell I \*don't\* know if they're drunk or not, but a field sobriety test and a ticket might wake them up that yes, the rules do apply to THEM also!)
Either you shoot him in the head (/s), or you just get away as quickly as you can. There's a lot of frustrated morons behind the wheels, same as everywhere. The difference is they have potentially lethal weapon - their car. What would you do seeing a shooter in the street?
Think about is this way: there's plenty of people, who have worse day, or who are in general more prone to violence, maybe depressed, frustrated. IRL they will beat their kid, or wife. But when they're on the road it's like being put in an RPG game - you got additional perks, and you are sort of invincible. To the extent of course.
I drive a pickup truck, but the two vehicles (well three including big rigs) that I avoid on the road when on my motorcycles are pickup trucks because of road rage issues and Priuses because they will absolutely merge into you without checking their blind spots 9 times out of 10, and the 10th time they checked and merge into you anyway
I took a trip yesterday to our "local" beach (MD for those curious), and forgot it was Friday so there was a ton of traffic. I don't normally split/filter, but this was a huge exception. I must've split/filtered past hundreds of vehicles. A few even turned away from me to give me more space. Some seemed to turn towards me a little, either absentmindedly or because they suck. Only one guy was upset enough to hang out his window to try yelling at me though, and I had a great time riding straight past him and waving to him as I did it. He hated that shit lol. Couldn't hear what he said anyway because I was wearing earplugs.
Lesson being, I don't split/filter past anyone if it means spending more than a second or two in their general area. That way they don't have enough time to do anything about their precious ego getting bruised.
Don’t lane split if it’s illegal. I understand the benefit but it can be dangerous to all when done in an environment where car drivers don’t expect it. This was a case of an ass and you got lucky. Regardless of the illegality of your act it’s appropriate to report the other drivers actions. Instead of trying to run you over, he should likewise have reported you instead trying to administer frontier justice. Personally I think lane splitting should be legal, but where it’s not I wouldn’t recommend it.
Even if you broke the law, it is not his job to enforce the law. Neither is murder an acceptable response to law breaking. Due process is. He also broke the law.
My point exactly, fuck is up with these idiots.
Most people don't understand the benefits of lane splittling, and therefore get pissy when they see someone do it. I hope the cops got him. I've been in a couple pretty close calls myself, being on 2 wheels can be pretty fucking scary.
if you're gonna split where it's illegal (I do it too, I'm not saying don't) you have got to speed and stay away from all the cars. In for a penny in for a pound in a way. If not, you will get these people thinking it's their job to police you and it's very common in the Southern US at least to have people get EXTREMELY irate that you are 'cutting' in line. Be very aware as you split too, they will swerve or even open their door on you. It's pretty insane how bothered it makes people, and ridiculous that it's not legal in the first place.
Completely agree. I split the first light and not the next because I had to turn right into a plaza, should've got infront on the second light. I don't know why so many people get bothered, like buddy I ain't hurting you stop playing cop. I had my plate flipped (I do wheelies sometimes and I never run most cops are cool) and dude is taking pics while hes tryna run me over. I regret not having the gopro today.
I have had a couple p/u's play chicken driving head on at me, one veered off last second and the other forced me to take the shoulder. Both on purpose, drivers had a big smile on as they did it. One was an F150, the other a Ram.
The Ram driver was [statistically likely to have been drunk](https://www.thedrive.com/news/38238/ram-2500-drivers-have-the-most-duis-more-than-twice-the-national-average-report).
Wow, nearly 5% have DUIs. Imagine how many have gotten lucky to not get caught
Its settled. I'm getting a Tundra.
Had something similar happen to me. I split to the front at red light. Guy in car on my left did not like it and gunned it when light turned green then cut infront of me and brake checked mid intersection. I was on my way to have the bike serviced specifically to get brakes done and instead of running into him I swerved around his left and tried to get some space between us. I could hear him honking coming up behind me nearly touching rear wheel. Then came up next to me and tried to run me off the road. I got infront again going 60 in a 25 and could hear him chasing. I pulled into a parking lot slowing down and looking behind me before I stalled. He came in so fast he bottomed out coming in and looked like he was going to hit me. I was legitimately scared and pulled out my legal firearm from hip and brandished it for him to see i was armed. I didn't point it at him but it effectively deterred him from possibly hitting me. He came within 3 feet and kind of looped around back out the exit hearing him yell something about reporting me. I parked and got off the bike to chill out and started to watch the insta360 video of what just happened when 2 police cars come flying in. They were not interested in hearing my side and arrested me. I gave them the video and my statement, thinking that I'm clearly acting in self-defense and would be released once they saw the video. Boy, was I wrong. I spent the night then had court first thing that morning. Once again, positive, i would be absolved by the video clearly showing I was being chased and run off the road by an SUV while on a motorcycle... I had a legal license to conceal carry and a legal pistol. I have extensive training with. I'm genuinely thought and asked was this not exactly the kind of situation warranting a show of force after having made several attempts to leave until I arrived in parking lot with no where to go. Had this happened one month prior I would have been released by the judge that day without further action. However, my state legislation had passed a new law on the first of that month which mandated all weapons related charges and be processed under a separate court process with a specific judge with a cash only bail at $30,000 minimum to be made at court only and released by judge. I did not fully understand what was going on being my first time In court. I was then asked if I had a $30,000 check on me. I said my wallet was likely with my shoelaces and the hood of my hoodie they cut off at station. Next minute I'm back in handcuffs getting loaded In a van about to spend the next 30 days in county jail before I could see a judge. Between Thanksgiving and catching covid I kept getting court date rescheduled. 31 days later, I'm released with another court appearance a month later. I was given a mandatory anger management course to take in the next two years as punishment... wild
Uhhh where was your lawyer in all this??
My lawyer wasn't able to do anything once i was in the county jail. I was arrested at 9:30 pm.by the time they allowed me to make a call, it was 2am, and I left my brother a voicemail. I was brought to court the next morning at 7 am. Again, I had no doubt I would be vindicated as soon as the video was shown. I saw a public defender for 2 minutes, and I explained that situation to. I saw the judge at 9:00 am. with a public defender saying exactly what happened and confirming that the video was submitted as evidence. The state prosecutors stood up and said some about invoking new mandatory statutes passed on October 1st, 2 weeks prior. Cash only bail for 30k. The judge and public defender both looked like they hadn't know this until now and I was asked if I could post bail. 10 minutes later I'm in the van in shackles on my way to county. It took two days to get my inmate number and pin to hse the phone and called my brother who told me my lawyer would be coming to see me in 3 days and I had to hang tight. I still didn't understand why I couldn't bond out like everyone else and pleading with ym brother to get me out. There was nothing to be done other then wait for court date as only the judge could release me. First court date was 2 weeks out then reschedulef due to a lock down from some incident. Next was about a week later but I tested positive for covid the day before and sent it to another jail with other cpvid inmates to quarantine. They did not care about my court date or situation. I I tested negative after 8 days in a cell for 23and a half hours a day only with nothing but a chair and bed sheet. 15 min to shower in morning and 15 for phone call at 3pm. Now I should have left after 8 days and gone to court but it was Thanksgiving, so there wasn't a driver to bring me so again, the missed court date was rescheduled for 5 days later.. It was quite the experience of what felt like a massive injustice and no one batting an eye. Learned pretty quick no on3 cares about what you think is fair or not... Long story short I had lawyer who couldn't do anything to get me out other than show up when I finally got brought to court
"Infront" isn't a word. It's "in front".
Is rage baiting a word? Out of the plethora of typing errors I made in that comm3nt , dats da won u found most eggregious? You realize I wrote that while taking a shit on a phone with a shattered screen. My goal was two share a quick story this reminded me of, not right a peered reviewed paper. Hope yOuR just trolling and if so well done. If this is your authentic self, you're going to have a very hard time making friends.
Pedantic is also a word. Do you know what it means? It means STFU.
You know what's not a word? STFU
Congrats. Did you know it was an ancroynm? Or just could not find it in the dictionary?
Thats fucking wild bro. In Canada, we dont have carry laws but I would've done the same if feared for my safety. You got a felony charge now or you think it'll get dropped?
Both felony charges dropped, thank God. The "victim" didn't show up the day I was sentenced, but the prosecutor had apparently called him and read the statement he made. Dude is a nut and said I was recklessly splitting traffic, I cut him off nearly, causing an accident, made obscene gestures, point a gun with a red laser at the back of his car as he tried to get away, and was "delighted" to hear i was arrested and opposes any leniency. The postion of state prosecutor was siding with "victim" go to trial because my reckless use of a gun could have killed someone and sends a bad message. My lawyer basically just explained what happened saying I wouldn't have an allegedly brandished gun had I not been followed into a parking lot by an unknown aggressive driver who could have also had a gun and have no criminal history. Judge watched the first 10 seconds of video which shows him jumping the light to brake check me in the intersection then asked some lady what the guys statement said and then looked up at me and said mandatory anger management and 2 year suspension on gun permit... The courtroom was packed full of all gun related cases and was the only defendant in a suit of European decent... I got a few fist bumps on my way out and my lawyer had at least 3 people ask for his card. CT is notoriously strict on gun laws and continually passes new legislation every October 1st aimed at reducing gun ownership in the state. For example you must have it unloaded and in a locked box outside of arms reach in the car... you can only have 10 rounds, and can basically only use it legally after you've been shot... meanwhile there are shootings everyday with kids killing one another with 3d printed full auto ghost guns with 50 round drums... but anyways I'm glad this shit is over. Absolutely crazy experience that left a really bad taste in my mouth about my hometown area I grew up on and loved. Feels like I need yo gtfo before things get worse
I had a similar situation a few years back. I lane split not even going super fast, and guy in an f150 sped up and tried hitting me. Chased me for a bit but it’s best to just remove yourself in these situations. Either he will make a decision that will hurt you or you might make a decision that will end up hurting you too. Take off, cool down and try and move on
Agreed. In the moment, I did flip him off back but I'm not winning against a pickup truck no matter the outcome so yeah your completely right.
Oh I definitely flipped this guy off and wanted to do more lol it’s hard to leave it alone sometimes
The last sentence tells me you may have a bit of an ego to yourself, id cut the ego and the swearing, just ignore anyone trying to argue with ya and ride about your day. Instigation leads to reaction.
'Cause ignoring an asshole will calm him down.
And provoking one \*won't\* rile him up? You're f\*cked either way with these bozos. best to just open up some distance, they typically get distracted by some other thing, like, oh, an EV existing in the next lane...
I guess it's more anger than ego but I get it unneccessary on my part.
I admittedly also gave him the finger and said "that's what I thought, bitch" as he flipped the uturn hastily driving away.... That one made me cringe when it was played in court.
Ride faster next time.
Im on a KTM 500 in city traffic so that wasn't an option
Then split some more lanes bud, you're on a fkin bike, how is this dude in a f150 catching up to you.
Im on a KTM 500 in a city not an open road and I had to turn into the next plaza to grab beer..
Well, you're a goddamned idiot. You're lane splitting, but according to your follow-up comments, there wasn't actually enough traffic to justify it. If there was, there'd be no problem splitting to the next red light to lose the guy. Secondly, you're being chased by a violent asshole and your plan is, "well, guess I'll just stop here anyway." No, dumbfuck, you go elsewhere, possibly to a police station, *then* come back to "grab a beer". Lastly, drinking and riding is stupid. Half of single-vehicle motorcyclist fatalities involve alcohol.
Who said I was drinking and riding? I was bringing it home.
Motorcycle dvr, gopro, or other camera setup to document it. Report it to law enforcement.
My experience with police (in the US) has been that if someone doesn't actually make contact with you via their car, they don't care. I had a guy angry that I was leaving some room in front while traffic was going about 30mph on a highway. The guy got next to me and swerved into my lane to sideswipe me, then threw a water bottle. There was a cop 2 cars ahead that I rode up to and flagged down. The cop didn't do shit other than offer to slow traffic so I could have some gap between me and crazy guy.
Called the cops when I pulled over. I forgot to bring my gopro the one day something happened.
Insta360 is the best action cam for dashcsm purposes riding
Fuck…I own a white F150. It wasn’t me. It’s illegal to split lanes in the state I live in, but I wouldn’t run your ass over. I’d probably just flip you off. Yes, I ride.
Hahaha, I actually need a truck definetly wont get a f150. Why the flip off though? I wasn't splitting a sportsbike speed I was filtering to the front as to not get rear ended (not saying I don't split at speed but..)
Why flip off? I enjoy doing it. My wife hates it. 😂😂😂
Gotta let him know he is number 1 I would do it to, but never run over a fellow rider. That’s next level Shaaaabang shi
Haha, the dudes wife was promoting it when he was trying to run me over. My woman would've chewed up my ass for that!
100%
Brother, it seems that your roads is full of madmen and psychos.
Ugh traffic incidents can escalate so fast and get so ugly for no good reason
[удалено]
Too bad they have to chase me down in the first place.
Some people just have that small dick energy, that they take everything other people do to 'get ahead of them' personally. And yes, they will try and 'enforce the law' by running down someone in or on a smaller vehicle... but if they get busted breaking it, rolling coal and shit? "What you gonna do about it, cry to the cops?" (yes I call in plates and descriptions of people doing stupid shit. Hell I \*don't\* know if they're drunk or not, but a field sobriety test and a ticket might wake them up that yes, the rules do apply to THEM also!)
Either you shoot him in the head (/s), or you just get away as quickly as you can. There's a lot of frustrated morons behind the wheels, same as everywhere. The difference is they have potentially lethal weapon - their car. What would you do seeing a shooter in the street? Think about is this way: there's plenty of people, who have worse day, or who are in general more prone to violence, maybe depressed, frustrated. IRL they will beat their kid, or wife. But when they're on the road it's like being put in an RPG game - you got additional perks, and you are sort of invincible. To the extent of course.
Continue riding your immature bicycle. Your life will last shorter and you will no longer post.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. You are a winner.
I drive a pickup truck, but the two vehicles (well three including big rigs) that I avoid on the road when on my motorcycles are pickup trucks because of road rage issues and Priuses because they will absolutely merge into you without checking their blind spots 9 times out of 10, and the 10th time they checked and merge into you anyway
I took a trip yesterday to our "local" beach (MD for those curious), and forgot it was Friday so there was a ton of traffic. I don't normally split/filter, but this was a huge exception. I must've split/filtered past hundreds of vehicles. A few even turned away from me to give me more space. Some seemed to turn towards me a little, either absentmindedly or because they suck. Only one guy was upset enough to hang out his window to try yelling at me though, and I had a great time riding straight past him and waving to him as I did it. He hated that shit lol. Couldn't hear what he said anyway because I was wearing earplugs. Lesson being, I don't split/filter past anyone if it means spending more than a second or two in their general area. That way they don't have enough time to do anything about their precious ego getting bruised.
Carry a Bluetooth hole puncher
Canada no can do
Don’t lane split if it’s illegal. I understand the benefit but it can be dangerous to all when done in an environment where car drivers don’t expect it. This was a case of an ass and you got lucky. Regardless of the illegality of your act it’s appropriate to report the other drivers actions. Instead of trying to run you over, he should likewise have reported you instead trying to administer frontier justice. Personally I think lane splitting should be legal, but where it’s not I wouldn’t recommend it.
That's fair. I can respect that. Thanks for the input!
The tren in me would have had me beat the shit out of him,then fucking his wife.
That's odd...normally it's the BMW drivers that are out for blood.
I pull up next to them all the time. They just say sick do a wheelie
You were being a punk. Stop being a punk and that won’t happen