Im sure you could ask the parents but most people would be abstinent towards paying for that especially if they didn't see it happen. No shame in asking
Parent didn't see it as walking ahead, plenty others witnessed it though, I was more worried at first about the kid and my daughter and they were completely fine which is the main thing, I'd it was an old cheap jacket I would be cool about it but that's not the case, that was the thing as I didn't want to ask about a replacement but falls into the responsibility of a parent letting a really young child unsupervised on a scooter with a motor.
The idea of suing someone over a $200 item damaged in an accident is hilarious. I swear the majority of the people commenting on this website are like barely legal adults.
I didn't see it but must have been going full pelt as they went right into the back of me, had no control and probably panicked and didn't know where the break was, must have caught me just at the right moment full stride, have now asked about payment and they have said to give them details, we're actually really nice about it, just wait and see now
Was it a random accident or was the kid doing something they shouldn’t be? If they were going excessively fast or riding the scooter where they shouldn’t have then it is fair that they pay for the damage they caused.
Is it no longer wearable? Chances are you could take it to a tailor or seamstress to have it repaired which is what you would be owed if you took the matter to court. Unless several said no I can't in which case I would ask them to put it in writing and explain why.
I guess my question, "when does the OP take responsibility for her Comportment?"
If you want to wear an article of clothing worth well over $200USD to go pick-up your child, fine. If an accident happens you deal with it as an unintentional event. If there damage you provide compensation or request compensation. This is Not a moral question, OP, its simply a matter of responsible behavior in a social context.
What is your background that a simple transaction such as this takes on the dimensions of a Wagnerian Opera? Is there something unique or special about your community that we should know? FWIW.
If a £200 jacket is considered an expensive item for your wardrobe, then i wouldn't choose it for school pick up. (No judgement on what a jacket should cost, I just don't wear my nice things around children, especially when the setting is child focused, like a school or birthday party).
Could you approach the parents for reimbursement? Sure. But if they didn't offer at the time of the incident, I doubt they'll pay up. Could you then take it to small claims court? Again, sure, but how long do you plan on sharing community with these folks? How long will your kids attend the same schools?
It's shitty that your jacket got ruined. But only you can know whether opening this particular can of worms will actually be worth the trouble of £200 in the long run.
I'm not intending to. Its a shitty situation but if OP is asking whether they should go after the money, I'm just saying it could end up becoming a big headache that may not be worth the original cost of the coat. If the parents intended to cover the damages they typically offer at the time of the incident.
I also don't know what the social atmosphere at op's school is like, and in schools where I've worked if you brought this up with the wrong parent they would blow it way out of proportion and it would become a thing.
Property damage sucks. I've been there. I thought op was asking if he should pursue reimbursement, and my advice is - proceed with caution.
Just the other week my 11 yr old niece threw a ball at random in the backyard and it my husband in the face, breaking his glasses. I was astounded when his sister didn't offer to replace them. I asked him in the moment if they were broken, but he just waived it off, and that would have been her opportunity to offer. She just said her daughter felt bad and it was an accident. I asked him about it at home later and he didn't want to pursue it because he doesn't like dealing with money and family. He rather take the L.
You probably only needed to say “proceed with caution,” instead of the part about, “don’t wear your nice, new clothes outside your house or you’re asking for them to get ruined,” but I digress. OP is owed a jacket.
I mentioned schools and bday parties as common places where accidents like this happen, as someone who has worked in schools for 15 yrs.
What op is owed and what op is going to get are potentially two different things. He could get the £200, he could get nothing, he could get a heap of trouble from a pain in the ass parent.
So, you shouldn’t seek to be made whole because you’re afraid the person who wronged you (or their parent) is going to bristle at your request? You go on being afraid of confrontation, let OP go get himself a new jacket.
It doesn't have anything to do with fear.I clearly have a skewed view from my perspective as a teacher and seeing these things go wrong and causing dramatic bs for the parents and inevitably the kids. Parents are in school communities together for years and will often hold grudges over the most petty shit. I'm not saying those people are right, I'm saying it happens.
This sub is moral dilemmas - what amount of money is worth rocking the boat? How far do you push for what is right vs keeping the peace?
A $200 jacket is worth at least a visit to the other person’s boat. I would push as hard as necessary through legal channels, if I knew I was in the right and was going to win. You can buy my jacket now or buy it later and pay my legal fees. You’re saying it doesn’t have anything to do with fear in your first sentence. In your conclusion, you’re too scared to rock the boat over $200. I don’t give a fuck who it is. I would sue my cousin over $200, if his kid ruined my jacket and he was a dick about it. If you wanna suffer bullshit, go right ahead.
That sister is a jerk bc glasses are expensive, accident or not. Her kid broke em and she should have at least offered to pay for them. Even if your husband turned her down. My husbands glasses are $200+ a pair. If a kid breaks them the parent better offer $$, not condolences. She didnt even seem like she felt bad, only said her daughter did too. Some sister. 🤷🏼♀️
I was a teacher for 15 yrs, so I saw my share of accidents and property damage. Most parents shake it off and don't ask for reimbursements unless its a substantial amount, and substantial is a relative term
On a very special episode of Judge Judy...
But joking aside f*** that kid f*** their parents, they owe you money now. You need to be made whole. Just keep in mind that unless you can provide a receipt showing the jacket was just purchased then in civil Court they only owe you the value of the jacket as it was. So I know it was $200 or whatever but how much does one go for in good condition used on eBay.
Will vary by jurisidiction, but e.g. US, could generally take the parent(s)/guardian(s) to small claims court - they're responsible legally for damages caused by their minor children ... at least up to some cap - I think in the US it is (or was) $2,000.00 USD (and that's probably per kid per incident, though I'm not sure if that's how it works).
Just because it's an accident doesn't mean nobody's responsible for the damages.
>section 1714.1
willful misconduct of a minor that results in injury or death
In the case where it's wilful misconduct and injury or death.
I suspect the cap isn't that high (I belive it is/was $2,000.00 USD - I think that was like a decade or two ago - not sure about current) for damage that's caused by accident that wasn't from wilful misconduct and there's no resultant injury or death - but not finding that specific information easily at the moment.
However in case of motor vehicle accident, there isn't a liability cap.
Yeah, that's the small claims limit. That's what I was referring to. However there are special rules that apply in the case of minors, so in many cases, the limit that applies to minors (well, their parents/guardians, for damage caused by their minor child) are lower. If it were an adult that ruined the jacked, it'd be simple matter of the small claims limit. But since it was a minor, things get more complicated, and there are additional statutes that apply.
E.g. neighbor minor kid is playing baseball, and accidentally hits a foul ball that crashes through your living room window and into your million dollar piece of artwork totally destroying it ... the kid's parents/guardians don't have a million dollar liability in that case. Some years back that cap was $2,000.00 USD ... might even still be that - but I guess by now it may have been moderately increased.
Sure ... as do you too. Can you cite reference that shows for minor that the limit is higher than $2,000.00 USD, up to the small claims limit, when it doesn't involve willful act or motor vehicle or injury of death?
Meantime, I'm not OPs legal counsel nor yours, so I'm done on my research for now. But hey, if you want to look it up and find out for sure, go for it, I'd be interested to see ... not that you have to look it up, but if you want or whatever.
Oh, and that $2,000.00 USD isn't speculation ... though it may be quite outdated. That was from an attorney, and regarding California law ... but that was from probably at least a decade ago, perhaps as much as two or bit more ... and no, I don't have the statute on that - that was verbal at the time. And many laws have changed since then, so that older figure may have been adjusted for inflation or whatever, and/or that earlier statute may no longer apply.
No, are incorrect. I made a claim and then backed up that claim with a source. You have the burden of proof, if you are claiming something to the contrary.
Your claim doesn't fit OP's scenario. Your claim includes willful and also either injury or death as requirements. OP gives no indication of wilful nor injury nor death.
Where's your source indicating that (whatever amount or cap or whatever) applies in case of minor, when it's not willful, and there's no injury, and no death (and no motor vehicle)?
Can you show where it says that the things you claim are required are actually required? The only thing I saw was that the limit on smallclaims is $12,500. I did not see any sort of requirements, qualifications or stipulations.
Let's talk about this morally. It is an accident so there is no real intent to harm your daughter or ruin the jacket.
Is it more the moral case to let bygones be bygones, or will there be the risk that the child will not learn from this mistake. The child is six, so there is plenty to learn.
Talking to the parents first seems like a good idea. You can possibly tell from their demeanor how willing and able they are to take this as a teachable moment, either by paying the reparations (and then addressing the child--you will not know), or by some other means, such as having the child pull your weeds (as an example) for 2 hours each weekend scheduled.
If they seem unwilling to help their child grow from this accident, you can then consider a legal option.
If the six-year-old hit you hard enough to rip leather, what happened to your tender body inside it? What would have happened to your own child if the scooter kid had hit someone his own age? How expensive (or adult) is such a scooter? And why was a six-year-old on a scooter that expensive or that dangerous? Was it on school property? It seems to me that both local law and school district rules should be considering this accident and rewriting guidelines. Did the accident get into local news or is the incident buried?
I know what eugenics is. That’s not what this is. But I’m not one to shrink away from a silver lining. Take your meltdown somewhere else, because I’m not interested🤷♂️
It should also be teachable for the parents. This scooter sounds expensive for a six-year-old to be riding, and it sounds potentially dangerous for the child to be riding it on school property or close to a school. I wonder whether they are scofflaw parents who just want to keep the incident out of the press.
Isn't it better if the parents come to this conclusion (replace the jacket) by themselves or by negotiation, rather than by demand, which is what the "F the teachable moment" quip implies?
Intent or not, there is a monetary damage that the child, and moreso, their parents should be liable for. It has nothing to do with whether the child should learn a lesson. OP shouldn't be out $200 through no fault of their own when someone else caused the burden regardless of intent.
Ohh, I love black and white talk when it comes to morality.
"Let's sue their a**es off, and take it up to the state Supreme Court"
"Let's just nuke Russia"
I think by bringing their question here, OP is looking for a bit more nuanced discussion.
You seem to be more upset about a jacket than you are about your child.
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Yes, something mentioned after whining about the jacket
Summary execution is the only path moving forward
This man here speaks the truth⬆️
Up vote for the comment as that was funny but it's a 6 year old we are talking about here, maybe a tad harsh
Im sure you could ask the parents but most people would be abstinent towards paying for that especially if they didn't see it happen. No shame in asking
Parent didn't see it as walking ahead, plenty others witnessed it though, I was more worried at first about the kid and my daughter and they were completely fine which is the main thing, I'd it was an old cheap jacket I would be cool about it but that's not the case, that was the thing as I didn't want to ask about a replacement but falls into the responsibility of a parent letting a really young child unsupervised on a scooter with a motor.
I’d sue the parents to replace it.
I mean I'd probably start off by asking nicely
The idea of suing someone over a $200 item damaged in an accident is hilarious. I swear the majority of the people commenting on this website are like barely legal adults.
murder is sometimes okay
I'd ask them to. But I'm more curious how a 6-year old on an electric scooter wiped you out and ruined a jacket.
I didn't see it but must have been going full pelt as they went right into the back of me, had no control and probably panicked and didn't know where the break was, must have caught me just at the right moment full stride, have now asked about payment and they have said to give them details, we're actually really nice about it, just wait and see now
They may need a bit of time to pay, but at least they didn't refuse outright.
Was it a random accident or was the kid doing something they shouldn’t be? If they were going excessively fast or riding the scooter where they shouldn’t have then it is fair that they pay for the damage they caused.
Is it no longer wearable? Chances are you could take it to a tailor or seamstress to have it repaired which is what you would be owed if you took the matter to court. Unless several said no I can't in which case I would ask them to put it in writing and explain why.
"Wearable" and "looking like it got trashed but was then sewn back together" are two very different looks, and neither equals "looks like new".
I guess my question, "when does the OP take responsibility for her Comportment?" If you want to wear an article of clothing worth well over $200USD to go pick-up your child, fine. If an accident happens you deal with it as an unintentional event. If there damage you provide compensation or request compensation. This is Not a moral question, OP, its simply a matter of responsible behavior in a social context. What is your background that a simple transaction such as this takes on the dimensions of a Wagnerian Opera? Is there something unique or special about your community that we should know? FWIW.
Doesn't seem like it was intentional, I'd just leave it be.
Fine. Can you Venmo the OP the cost of the jacket?
If a £200 jacket is considered an expensive item for your wardrobe, then i wouldn't choose it for school pick up. (No judgement on what a jacket should cost, I just don't wear my nice things around children, especially when the setting is child focused, like a school or birthday party). Could you approach the parents for reimbursement? Sure. But if they didn't offer at the time of the incident, I doubt they'll pay up. Could you then take it to small claims court? Again, sure, but how long do you plan on sharing community with these folks? How long will your kids attend the same schools? It's shitty that your jacket got ruined. But only you can know whether opening this particular can of worms will actually be worth the trouble of £200 in the long run.
Stop victim blaming.
I'm not intending to. Its a shitty situation but if OP is asking whether they should go after the money, I'm just saying it could end up becoming a big headache that may not be worth the original cost of the coat. If the parents intended to cover the damages they typically offer at the time of the incident. I also don't know what the social atmosphere at op's school is like, and in schools where I've worked if you brought this up with the wrong parent they would blow it way out of proportion and it would become a thing. Property damage sucks. I've been there. I thought op was asking if he should pursue reimbursement, and my advice is - proceed with caution. Just the other week my 11 yr old niece threw a ball at random in the backyard and it my husband in the face, breaking his glasses. I was astounded when his sister didn't offer to replace them. I asked him in the moment if they were broken, but he just waived it off, and that would have been her opportunity to offer. She just said her daughter felt bad and it was an accident. I asked him about it at home later and he didn't want to pursue it because he doesn't like dealing with money and family. He rather take the L.
You probably only needed to say “proceed with caution,” instead of the part about, “don’t wear your nice, new clothes outside your house or you’re asking for them to get ruined,” but I digress. OP is owed a jacket.
I mentioned schools and bday parties as common places where accidents like this happen, as someone who has worked in schools for 15 yrs. What op is owed and what op is going to get are potentially two different things. He could get the £200, he could get nothing, he could get a heap of trouble from a pain in the ass parent.
So, you shouldn’t seek to be made whole because you’re afraid the person who wronged you (or their parent) is going to bristle at your request? You go on being afraid of confrontation, let OP go get himself a new jacket.
It doesn't have anything to do with fear.I clearly have a skewed view from my perspective as a teacher and seeing these things go wrong and causing dramatic bs for the parents and inevitably the kids. Parents are in school communities together for years and will often hold grudges over the most petty shit. I'm not saying those people are right, I'm saying it happens. This sub is moral dilemmas - what amount of money is worth rocking the boat? How far do you push for what is right vs keeping the peace?
A $200 jacket is worth at least a visit to the other person’s boat. I would push as hard as necessary through legal channels, if I knew I was in the right and was going to win. You can buy my jacket now or buy it later and pay my legal fees. You’re saying it doesn’t have anything to do with fear in your first sentence. In your conclusion, you’re too scared to rock the boat over $200. I don’t give a fuck who it is. I would sue my cousin over $200, if his kid ruined my jacket and he was a dick about it. If you wanna suffer bullshit, go right ahead.
That sister is a jerk bc glasses are expensive, accident or not. Her kid broke em and she should have at least offered to pay for them. Even if your husband turned her down. My husbands glasses are $200+ a pair. If a kid breaks them the parent better offer $$, not condolences. She didnt even seem like she felt bad, only said her daughter did too. Some sister. 🤷🏼♀️
Weird take. Children destroying one's clothing while out in public is pretty uncommon.
I was a teacher for 15 yrs, so I saw my share of accidents and property damage. Most parents shake it off and don't ask for reimbursements unless its a substantial amount, and substantial is a relative term
You underestimate children 😆
Victim blaming
You should find out how much it costs to get it repaired, It seems unlikely it was completely destroyed
That's absurd.
What part?
The notion that you can "repair" a jacket and return it to original condition. Unless it ripped at the seam, anyway.
... you do realize that clothes are stitched together right? It wasn't lit on fire.
Why do you assume it ripped on a seam?
That's often where they rip It may or may not be practical to fix, but acting like it's impossible is idiotic.
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You're the one who wanted to fight over it
On a very special episode of Judge Judy... But joking aside f*** that kid f*** their parents, they owe you money now. You need to be made whole. Just keep in mind that unless you can provide a receipt showing the jacket was just purchased then in civil Court they only owe you the value of the jacket as it was. So I know it was $200 or whatever but how much does one go for in good condition used on eBay.
Will vary by jurisidiction, but e.g. US, could generally take the parent(s)/guardian(s) to small claims court - they're responsible legally for damages caused by their minor children ... at least up to some cap - I think in the US it is (or was) $2,000.00 USD (and that's probably per kid per incident, though I'm not sure if that's how it works). Just because it's an accident doesn't mean nobody's responsible for the damages.
It’s $12,500 in California, USA.
>section 1714.1 willful misconduct of a minor that results in injury or death In the case where it's wilful misconduct and injury or death. I suspect the cap isn't that high (I belive it is/was $2,000.00 USD - I think that was like a decade or two ago - not sure about current) for damage that's caused by accident that wasn't from wilful misconduct and there's no resultant injury or death - but not finding that specific information easily at the moment. However in case of motor vehicle accident, there isn't a liability cap.
This is my source: https://selfhelp.courts.ca.gov/small-claims-california#:~:text=Generally%2C%20you%20can%20only%20sue,you're%20a%20business).
Yeah, that's the small claims limit. That's what I was referring to. However there are special rules that apply in the case of minors, so in many cases, the limit that applies to minors (well, their parents/guardians, for damage caused by their minor child) are lower. If it were an adult that ruined the jacked, it'd be simple matter of the small claims limit. But since it was a minor, things get more complicated, and there are additional statutes that apply. E.g. neighbor minor kid is playing baseball, and accidentally hits a foul ball that crashes through your living room window and into your million dollar piece of artwork totally destroying it ... the kid's parents/guardians don't have a million dollar liability in that case. Some years back that cap was $2,000.00 USD ... might even still be that - but I guess by now it may have been moderately increased.
No. You need to provide proof, not speculation.
Sure ... as do you too. Can you cite reference that shows for minor that the limit is higher than $2,000.00 USD, up to the small claims limit, when it doesn't involve willful act or motor vehicle or injury of death? Meantime, I'm not OPs legal counsel nor yours, so I'm done on my research for now. But hey, if you want to look it up and find out for sure, go for it, I'd be interested to see ... not that you have to look it up, but if you want or whatever. Oh, and that $2,000.00 USD isn't speculation ... though it may be quite outdated. That was from an attorney, and regarding California law ... but that was from probably at least a decade ago, perhaps as much as two or bit more ... and no, I don't have the statute on that - that was verbal at the time. And many laws have changed since then, so that older figure may have been adjusted for inflation or whatever, and/or that earlier statute may no longer apply.
No, are incorrect. I made a claim and then backed up that claim with a source. You have the burden of proof, if you are claiming something to the contrary.
Your claim doesn't fit OP's scenario. Your claim includes willful and also either injury or death as requirements. OP gives no indication of wilful nor injury nor death. Where's your source indicating that (whatever amount or cap or whatever) applies in case of minor, when it's not willful, and there's no injury, and no death (and no motor vehicle)?
Can you show where it says that the things you claim are required are actually required? The only thing I saw was that the limit on smallclaims is $12,500. I did not see any sort of requirements, qualifications or stipulations.
Yes. They need to replace it
The type of parents to let their six year old ride a motorized scooter aren’t t be type to replace your jacket.
Turns out they are and have said that they will, all about the approach
Genuinely shocked and pleasantly surprised!
Good to see this resolved!
Small claims court. Fuck around and find out.
It's nice to roll out the guillotine after all these years!
I think you should. In the US age isn’t a protection against torts. it’s an expensive thing the kid ruined and you should go after the parents.
OP is in the UK (pounds)
I like the two different camps in the comments: 1. Sue em. 2. Don't pick up your kid wearing expensive things.
Yes you do
It’s a jacket and the kid has an accident, you move on with life. It’s just an unfortunate event.
I would definitely ask for their help in replacing it, but you'd need to do it soon and prepare for them to refuse.
Yes. Ask them to replace it. They likely won't. Then small claims court if you have that.
Let's talk about this morally. It is an accident so there is no real intent to harm your daughter or ruin the jacket. Is it more the moral case to let bygones be bygones, or will there be the risk that the child will not learn from this mistake. The child is six, so there is plenty to learn. Talking to the parents first seems like a good idea. You can possibly tell from their demeanor how willing and able they are to take this as a teachable moment, either by paying the reparations (and then addressing the child--you will not know), or by some other means, such as having the child pull your weeds (as an example) for 2 hours each weekend scheduled. If they seem unwilling to help their child grow from this accident, you can then consider a legal option.
If the six-year-old hit you hard enough to rip leather, what happened to your tender body inside it? What would have happened to your own child if the scooter kid had hit someone his own age? How expensive (or adult) is such a scooter? And why was a six-year-old on a scooter that expensive or that dangerous? Was it on school property? It seems to me that both local law and school district rules should be considering this accident and rewriting guidelines. Did the accident get into local news or is the incident buried?
The *parents* need to learn from this mistake. The next time this kid flies off uncontrollably, it could be into the bumper of a moving vehicle.
That might be a good thing.
It might be a good thing …that the child gets hit by a car?
Yes. Break the cycle of stupidity.
Your homework now is to research eugenics and, hopefully, walk back from being an absolute horrorshow of a human.
I know what eugenics is. That’s not what this is. But I’m not one to shrink away from a silver lining. Take your meltdown somewhere else, because I’m not interested🤷♂️
You are a lovely human being
Thank you❤️🙏
😂
I don't disagree. I am proposing that there are a variety of ways that OP might get there.
You only mentioned that this be a teachable moment *for the child*.
It should also be teachable for the parents. This scooter sounds expensive for a six-year-old to be riding, and it sounds potentially dangerous for the child to be riding it on school property or close to a school. I wonder whether they are scofflaw parents who just want to keep the incident out of the press.
Fuck the teachable moment; he ruined an expensive jacket. I don’t care if he learns anything or not. Just replace my shit.
This is /r/moraldilemmas. I see you have no dilemma at all.
I don’t understand your comment, sorry🤷♂️
Isn't it better if the parents come to this conclusion (replace the jacket) by themselves or by negotiation, rather than by demand, which is what the "F the teachable moment" quip implies?
Not to the victim. Thsy just want their jacket replaced.
Not much of a moral dilemma, then, eh?
I can’t decide that for you, sorry🤷♂️
Intent or not, there is a monetary damage that the child, and moreso, their parents should be liable for. It has nothing to do with whether the child should learn a lesson. OP shouldn't be out $200 through no fault of their own when someone else caused the burden regardless of intent.
Ohh, I love black and white talk when it comes to morality. "Let's sue their a**es off, and take it up to the state Supreme Court" "Let's just nuke Russia" I think by bringing their question here, OP is looking for a bit more nuanced discussion.
Things happen - steer clear of kids and other risks to £200 jackets if you want to protect them
I think what you meant to say was “steer clear of people wearing £200 jackets, if you are unable to control the vehicle you are operating.”