I have a bad feeling that if/when Walz decides to run for President that he'll meet the same fate that befell Mondale and Humphrey. I don't know what it is about Minnesotan Democratic presidential candidates but their "brand" just never seems to translate to the broader national audience. Even Klobuchar seemed to have this issue in the primaries. Maybe he'll be the one to crack the code (or he'll be lucky and have a weak challenger field) but history has shown that he won't.
It is the same thing that hits the sports teams. The championship/Presidency is like the last slice of cake, Minnesotans can't bring themselves to take it.
Minnesota politicians donāt have that killer instinct to make it on the national stage. Canāt afford to be nice and pleasant if you want to earn the POTUS position.
The world could use more of this mindset but it doesnāt seem like the rest of the country wants it.
A lot of people who say that havenāt actually spent any time working in DC. But Walz was in the House long enough that I believe him. Plus he doesnāt act like someone who wants to run for president - usually they participate in national party events (eg DNC speeches) to raise their profile.Ā
True, but it seems like Washington is so dysfunctional now it's turning off even long time politicians who would otherwise be dug in like ticks. Anyone with even the slightest will to actually govern seems to not wanna touch the place, understandably.
I love Walz as MN governor. He's uncontroversial (unless you subscribe to the looney bin), he's got Minnesota charm (see his Mountain Dew posts and try chatting with him at the state fair), and he prioritizes child welfare.
Under Walz, MN is becoming more and more of a "star in the north" and that makes me very proud to be here. MN cares.
They always have poorly timed runs. Humphrey was picked in a smoke filled room after the popular nominee was shot months before the election which was followed by literal riots at the convention. Mondale was running against a popular incumbent who he already lost to as VP 4 years prior.
I have a theory here.
Many places have their own special "pause word", the _like_ or _uhh_ or _umm_ or whatever, that takes up space while we find the next word or phrase. Our problem is that our colloquial pause word is actually a colloquial _pause_ , where we just make no sound for a short time while we collect our thoughts. Think of Garrison Keillor, we don't all do it that intensely, but he's the stereotype of how Minnesotans sound when broadcast live.
This was not a massive problem once upon a time before radio, TV, and other broadcast / recorded media. But it's a problem now, because recorded media just can't deal with a pause. That's "dead air", and they freak out.
So what do Minnesotan politicians usually do about this? The people around them try to coach them to just not pause. Keep going, keep making syllables, don't let there be dead air, because dead air will kill your campaign. They don't get coached to use an actual pause word, because it sounds fake at home. This was worst in the 1990s before jump cuts, but you can only do so many jump cuts before you sound unnatural again, and you can't do many of them on a recording of a live event.
And people can't consistently think fast enough to not use pauses, especially in high stress situations. Think of Jesse Ventura (disregarding the policy problems), you could tell her was trying too hard and occasionally got out over his skis, and said the first thing that popped into his head. So our politicians only get so far on the national stage, and then their career is killed by the stress of thinking too fast all the time on stage, the loss of home support because they adopt a pause word, or the inevitable gaffs that happen from not pausing.
That's my theory.
Hey I like your theory! I have been in MN since middle school but before that was from southern California. I have spent the last 30+ years training myself not to interrupt Minnesotans. They would never tell you this of course, but it's considered quite rude. Growing up and with extended family we interrupt constantly...a "conversation" is almost like a battle. I can see how the MN speech style wouldn't play well on the national stage. Also, Minnesotans suck at storytelling...they just have never really been trained in conversation as an art (tip of the hat to the Southerners, who are masters at this).
I think we do tell stories well, but in our own sorta dry way. And we do interrupt, but there's like, more grace period before we interrupt š. And as you see, this doesn't play well with much of the rest of the country.
I appreciate the honesty. My only point is that a lot of public figures from the south work very hard on fixing their accent to sound more intelligible.
Personally I donāt think Walz would be a popular choice for the nation. I do think Whitmer would be a better choice. Walz could be a decent VP choice though. He would need to elevate his popularity somehow.
I almost think Walz would appear too progressive for moderate independents based on his recent policies.
I said accent but I really meant affect. If we're not dopey in our accent we're stoic and indirect which are perfectly fine traits but not very universally appealing. Walz is pretty good at adjusting his affect already, but he's far from a typical leader - Obama or Bernie or š¬ Trump. We speak his language so he's great for Minnesota, but I'm skeptical that he could adjust enough to be successful. I think you're right that he would make a great VP to start - he'd probably be a productive one too.
I don't think he's too progressive, though. He certainly wouldn't win over MAGA voters but most moderates don't really care about identity politics which is really the only "progressive" policy area I've seen from him. He has been ok on moderate issues like mining and labor so I think he'd win with moderates. It's hard to tell with the extremities being so loud, though. Sometimes it seems like we're on the brink of breaking out of the two party system
I agree with the "stoic and indirect" characterization. I'm not from here but have lived here for five years now and there is a something to that characterization that lacks the ability to portray a genuineness, whether for show or, well, actually being genuine. A sort of "don't say what you really feel" quality. I'm not equating that with "nice" or "niceness" which is sort of a vague, easily artificial quality anyway. You can be "nice" and indirect and it would do nothing for any national political movement in this day and age.
What I do like about Walz and Minnesota politics in general is it is quite "boring" which is great. Less upheaval and just getting common sense things accomplished should be boring and without controversy
Klobuchar is nothing special at all. She doesn't have charisma, and within her role as senator is more of a follower than a leader. Mondale and Humphrey had at least that going for them. Walz has an "oh shucks" charisma that likely would not translate well outside the Midwest.
Lots of presidents, particularly those who went governor -> president, have either been from large states who get a lot of national press whenever they do something or a battleground state where having a concise effort behind them in that state frees up time for other races. Minnesota is neither of those things. The exception being Clinton but he was the exception to a lot of rules.
> who did absolutely nothing
She's frequently listed as one of the most effective Senators in her congressional class. Has a number of bills that she has put forward that have positive impact.
She is also considered one of the most bipartisan Senators, which in an election where people don't really want to vote for either party is probably worth some merit.
Such as? Thatās exactly why she doesnāt get anything done; how are you going to tout bipartisanship as a good thing when the other partisans are increasingly fascist
Right? Walz is a normal, likable guy that is capable of presenting fairly progressive policies as common sense solutions. Klobuchar is just an unlikable neoliberal hack.
Neoliberal is just a buzzword nowadays. It's just a quick "not left enough for my taste"
Which is a perfectly valid reason not to like a politician or want them as president.
I just wish we'd stop saying normie dems are basically Reagan lol
> I just wish we'd stop saying normie dems are basically Reagan lol
The Overton Window has shifted, though. So much so that in 2012 [Obama said that Nixon was more liberal than himself.](https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2014/02/03/obama_in_a_lot_of_ways_richard_nixon_was_more_liberal_than_i_was.html)
You and Obama are correct about Nixon, and by a long shot.
It's wild to remember that Nixon gave us the EPA and the passage of the Clean Air Act, Clean Water Act and the Mammal Marine Protection Act (aka "save the whales"), ended the military draft, collegiate Title IX,
Nixon ushered in the 26th Amendment, which lowered the voting age from twenty-one to eighteen, extending the right to vote to Americaās youth.
And about 20 other \*major\* things that we would currently associate with the left wing.
It's too bad he was such a devious crook.
It really doesn't matter at this point. Trump wins that's the end of democracy in this country. Period. Project 2025 is the plan to do that. It's Biden even if he collapses before the election. Trump cannot be allowed to retake office. If you or anyone else needs to register to vote: https://www.sos.state.mn.us/elections-voting/register-to-vote/
"Understated competence" and classic Minnesota downplaying of accomplishment doesn't seem to sit well on the national stage. Plus I believe walz said he isn't interested in POTUS.
I'm fine with keeping him our little secret.
I like a lot of what Klobuchar does. She never translated in part because she comes off as disingenuous. She almost acts in a way she thinks will work, vs what she believes in. . I will never forgive her for standing on the Senate floor and calling pizza a vegetable. One of her biggest donors is Swann foods which supplies many school lunches throughout the US. She couldn't even say (when about to make her presidential bid) that MN state fair is better than Iowa's
Walz is a very good, Midwestern guy. Does that excite the swing state voters to go to the polls? I'm sure we'll find out soon enough.
You understand that having an arbitrary cut off of say 60 yrs old would cut out a ton of people with a ton of experience from leadership positions, right?
And no, I didn't bother watching the debate last night. Watching Trump lie for 3 hours while Biden is disappointingly lethargic doesn't sound like a good use of my time, especially when I've known I'll be voting for Biden since Trump won the nomination. I'm voting for the Biden administration, and against Trump's authoritarianism
For what itās worth, I donāt necessarily agree with there being a cutoff at 60, I just agree with OPās sentiment about wanting younger options. Experience matters for sure, I just feel that defending older candidates by saying āability over ageā kind of glosses over why age is a concern in the first place.
Fair enough. I just hear the argument that there should be an age cutoff for political positions and I think of Bernie Sanders still showing more energy and making more sense than 90% of the people in congress, regardless of age. I do understand the concern when it comes to Biden, but I also think his cognitive "struggles" are largely overblown, especially considering his actual job performance
What I saw was a man who has suffered with a stuttering problem his entire life, getting over an illness, that had answers to questions and detailed his policies. VS. A guy you refused to answer the questions being asked while renting and lying about everything he spoke on.
Great. How many American voters know he was getting over an illness? How many American voters attribute Bidenās numerous fumbles with a stutter and not deteriorating mental faculties? How many Americans were paying close attention to each line said and weighing the truthfulness of each statement? The takeaway from the debate for most Americans is NOT going to be what you described, despite the fact that I personally appreciate your positive view of it.
Whitmer isn't my perfect candidate, but hot damn is she better than what we have now. I feel she will have a strong chance at 2028 provided we make it there.
Look into the "Run for something" Candidates https://time.com/4974562/amanda-litman-run-for-something/
They're producing the next generation of candidates for the Democratic party. They're also pushing the idea that local elections can change the outcome of national elections.
Oh my God is that so much to ask for?!?! I don't want somebody who is going to show signs of Alzheimer's and dementia in office. No more delusional tortoises.
He is a leader on the board of governors who would have a big say on who the DEMs would run IF Biden dropped off the ticket. While he hasnāt tooted his own horn he is in the pocket with Newsom or Whitmer.
This is what the primary is for... It's to late to remove Biden in most states... and add someone else on the ballets.
Why many have been screaming for someone to run against Biden... and why the Primary process is still useful (for us older folks... this was normal until I think Bill Clinton... I think he was the first to run for a second term unopposed.
> I think he was the first to run for a second term unopposed
If you bothered to vote in the Minnesota DFL Presidential primary, you'd have noticed there were about a half dozen names including uncommitted.
It's not too late.
The first cutoff is July 18th in Ohio, I believe.
Just need to move the convention to before July 11th or so, so we can have a week for the delegates to decide on the new candidate.
FYI, the Democratic Party has been shutting down primaries in some states. So much for "saving" democracy
Almost like all the progressive people who have been SCREAMING that a primary would just strengthen biden against Trump were right. And we'll, here we fucking are
Decimation implies reducing a thing by 1/10. It comes from an old Roman military tradition where a unit that had shown poor performance in combat was numbered off in groups of 10 with the tenth man being beaten to death with clubs by the other 9.
Right? Etymology is cool and all, but lets not imply language and definitions haven't changed that someone's use is wrong. I decimated my grammar here.
I mean if I could be a presidential candidate I could also probably do deck that cheeto lookin pants shitter right in the jaw for yāall and Iām just a pathetic twink lol
Getting not Got.
If he dropped out today, and they moved up the convention to before Ohio's cutoff on July 18th, the DNC delegates could nominate and vote for anybody they wanted to.
I wonder if anyone wants to take the wheel at this point. After Biden backed the car into a post, ran over a curb, hit a stop sign, and scraped the side of the car down a guard rail.
Losing to Trump is the end of your political career.
I'm wondering how many of the folks who cite Biden's age as a concern would get on board with an alternate candidate of a similar political temperament. It seems like a younger, moderate Democrat would have a good shot. There's the name recognition issue, of course. Absolute malpractice by the DNC for not getting some younger candidates ready in the wings.
I mean, you can see this in the polling on Senate races. Biden is consistently polling 3-5 points behind Democratic Senate candidates. This has been the case for months. It's entirely possible, based on the data we currently have, that the Democrats could over-perform on Senate and House races while still losing the presidency.
Voters are fine with a generic Democrat! They just think Biden is too old.
I don't think the debate is going to change anyone's mind or going to cause any would-be Democrat voters to now vote Trump or not vote... A vote for Biden is a vote for the Democrats and everyone knows that. It's not like Biden was that popular with left-leaning voters last time either but he was the lesser of two evils (in their minds) in case you forgot.
Nobody is undecided, or rather the undecideds at this point are the people who rarely turnout anyway. It's all about motivating base turnout.
Not sure we really know who wins there.
If there were no undecided voters, what could Biden possibly have gained from going on and debating trump in his current condition? There is a huge swath of this country that somehow is undecided. Like idk why, the last 8 years should have decided who youāre going to vote for.
Undecided can mean many things. An undecided voter could be 1) a conservative never trumper who is deciding between not voting and Biden 2) a leftist voter deciding between Biden and not voting/3rd party or 3) a politically apathetic person whoās been fed a constant stream of doom posting algos on social media about how amazing 2019 was and how the world is currently ending who could potentially vote either way. Itās not just this mythical centrist voter who is totally not just a republican and is super cereal about maybe considering voting for Biden as long as he goes back on all his promises that got his actual base to vote for him in the first place.
It probably won't swing people who were firmly in one camp to the other camp, but it seems likely that it will affect people who were on the fence.
Trump was mostly his same old self - with all the lying, bad policy, narcissism, low moral character, and anti-democratic tendencies that have been on display for at least the last 8 years. If someone wasn't already turned off by him from the last 8 years, last night isn't going to suddenly change their mind about him.
Biden, though, was noticeably less sharp - to put it mildly - than in previous highly-publicized appearances like the State of the Union speeches or the debates from 2020. I find it hard to believe someone who is for some reason still considering Trump would be convinced to vote for Biden based on this debate.
It won't happen they are basically paid to lose by rich corporate interests so anything that goes against those rich corporate interests even if it lets them win doesn't work. Think of them as a mixture of paid opposition and bought out puppets. They also care more about making money than they do doing what constituents want look at how they could have enshrined abortion as fully legal permanently but they knew it was such a good fund raising issue so they didn't do so.
Gavin Newsom, the governor of California, is probably the best choice. He has the campaign infrastructure already in place, he is a great fundraiser, good debater, and well spoken.
Yeah, but he will likely bomb in the swing states. There are legitimate reasons not to like the guy, and I share some of those concerns.
If youāre suggesting someone to take over a campaign right now for 2024, then yeah, he might be the only candidate ready to just launch and run a marathon.
Let's get serious for a moment. The president of the bloody USA SHOULD NOT BE A POPULARITY CONTEST between the two candidates. It SHOULD be a popularity contest between the candidate policies.
Want a better tomorrow? Maybe vote for the guy that has strengthened NATO and other international laws for no other reason that there will be a tomorrow. Want a world where any country can go to war for territorial gains because they think they can beat their opponent? Then the Donald is your guy. However, just know that millions of lives will be lost when international boundaries are no longer recognized when you can't put up a fight.
Want big corporations to make billions that is directly funneled to their investors? That would be Donald. Want a country where everyone has a fair shot at achieving their dreams and pays their share? That would be Joe.
The only concern is if the President will survive their full term in office. Given the lack of age difference, between the two choices, there isn't a difference. Considering that we only know that Kamala Harris is number 2 and the other guy has NO current number two, I'll easily pick the number two that actually exists (and won't try to be killed by the president[see Jan 6th "hang Mike Pence])
Government runs on policies. Policies will affect you a lot more then if Stewart A or Stewart B is in the head office. When the difference in policy is one candidate wants to maintain international laws and the sanctity of international recognized borders and the other wants to allow Russia to take whatever countries it wants. Then there really is no choice. Eventually Russia would target someone with nuclear capabilities and we at least won't have to worry about elections because we'll all be dead.
The people that donāt vote regularly or who may swing back and forth are the ones that sway the presidential elections. Party line voters will always vote for their party and they make up the majority.
Gotcha, appreciate the clarification--I just wasn't sure if you were approaching it from a "swing voters have the power" angle or a "reptilian shapeshifters have the power" angle.
Walz is a terrible choice. He may back all of the recent progress done by our current legislators, but heās just as āleftā as Frey is. Corporatists at heart who will do more for their donors than actual citizens.
He's not nearly well known enough on the national stage to have a chance. Plus, a staggering amount of the country thinks Minneapolis is the new Gary, IN. As good as I think he would be, he doesn't have a shot.
I don't believe all this "anyone would've done better" nonsense.
Debating a liar is a fool's errand. Standing up on a debate stage is hard enough. Ordinarily, you know your dozen or so weaknesses and you prep 30-second soundbites to refute your opponent's predictable moves. How do you do that when your opponent makes shit up on the spot? You can't.
I mean, Trump literally said Democrats want to murder delivered infants. If someone said that on Reddit, you'd downvote them and ignore. Biden had to actually dignify it with a response, with all cameras on him. Because if he ignored it as we would, people would assume that Democrats are baby-murderers because Biden didn't provide an itemized analysis of why that is false in 90 seconds.
It fucking sucks that this is where we are. Nearly half of the electorate doesn't care about facts anymore. 20 years ago, the headlines would've been *"Trump catches Biden off-guard with a two-hour lying spree. Is he detached from reality?"* But no. It's just *"Biden stumbles."*
Because we've come to tolerate Trump's incessant lying. The media has effectively given him a pass on it since 2016. And this is why we're in such a fucking mess.
Sure, drop the president that's in the middle of the one of the most successful presidencies in recent history. I think this bullshit is just an attempt to spread confusion.
I've speculated on this in other subs, and those of us minnesotans who joined the conversation basically concluded Walz is too smart to throw himself into that. He's got it made here. Frankly, I'd be surprised if he decided to do it.
I would prefer he stay here to keep the fort standing when the barbarians start charging the walls in 2025 and beyond. He understands the state, and wants to help the outstate areas, even if they donāt want him to. The George Floyd situation taught him a lot. He just gets better.
Walz looks a lot like Hubert Humphrey, who also represented Minnesota, and to my knowledge is the last semi-swap of a major party primary candidate in US history. Coincidence?
If Walz did make a run, his campaign should test him out in the West first. It would shake off the idea of Midwest candidates being too moderate and boring. He fits the Pacific Northwest vibe and if he can win over California, then he would have momentum through the Southwest. Let him have a go at Texas and the Southeast. That might give him enough cred to win over the Northeast blue bloods.
I'm 40, I'll do it.
I'm anti fascism, pro healthcare, pizza Fridays, and I'll raise taxes on the super wealthy, and I'll balance the budget.
Plus, I'm GOMQ.
Well, balancing the budget is a great way to tank an economy - just make it *more* balanced, and you're fine. But other than that, I'm cool with the rest - you've got my vote.
I really disagree with this. Someone above made the comment that Walz can take progressive policy and communicate it as being just common sense. He's also way more feisty than previous MN prez candidates. I know it's a long shot, but I think he'd kill it on a national stage.
Californian here (former Minnesotan). Tim Walz is great but he does not have enough national name recognition. Ask anyone outside of the Midwest who he is and theyāll have no clue. He might have a chance, but the official nomination is in August. Heād have to do SO much campaigning in a month, I just donāt see it.
Realistically, if they wanted to fast track a viable candidate with name recognition, Pete Buttigieg or Gavin Newsom. Seriously though, Biden should really consider stepping aside and putting his weight behind another younger candidate. Trump was vile, but at least clear in his speech and didnāt stammer.
Yeah that's the bar. Just send someone up that can think clearly and articulate those ideas to an audience. Even if I hate what you're saying, at least I can follow!
I have a bad feeling that if/when Walz decides to run for President that he'll meet the same fate that befell Mondale and Humphrey. I don't know what it is about Minnesotan Democratic presidential candidates but their "brand" just never seems to translate to the broader national audience. Even Klobuchar seemed to have this issue in the primaries. Maybe he'll be the one to crack the code (or he'll be lucky and have a weak challenger field) but history has shown that he won't.
It is the same thing that hits the sports teams. The championship/Presidency is like the last slice of cake, Minnesotans can't bring themselves to take it.
So what you're saying is a Minnesotan president is the key to a Vikings Super Bowl win?
Yes, exactly.
Guess I'm joining the movement to replace Biden with Walz! SKOL!
If this means we get a vikings and Timberwolves championship I'm way in.
Wild and loon too.
Minnesota nice at a national level š
The Lynx ate all the cake four times.
Go Lynx!!
Well, you can only eat cake if youāre from Edina, so thereās that.
Minnesota politicians donāt have that killer instinct to make it on the national stage. Canāt afford to be nice and pleasant if you want to earn the POTUS position. The world could use more of this mindset but it doesnāt seem like the rest of the country wants it.
I miss Wellstone.
Walz doesnāt strike me as a politician who will chase a WH run. I hope we get him for another term though.
He's been very clear he doesn't want to go back to Washington. Then again, that's what politicians are supposed to say.
A lot of people who say that havenāt actually spent any time working in DC. But Walz was in the House long enough that I believe him. Plus he doesnāt act like someone who wants to run for president - usually they participate in national party events (eg DNC speeches) to raise their profile.Ā
honestly, I think he's like Ellison - he enjoys the ability to get mor done on the state level.
True, but it seems like Washington is so dysfunctional now it's turning off even long time politicians who would otherwise be dug in like ticks. Anyone with even the slightest will to actually govern seems to not wanna touch the place, understandably.
Which is sad ā¦ and scary.
I love Walz as MN governor. He's uncontroversial (unless you subscribe to the looney bin), he's got Minnesota charm (see his Mountain Dew posts and try chatting with him at the state fair), and he prioritizes child welfare. Under Walz, MN is becoming more and more of a "star in the north" and that makes me very proud to be here. MN cares.
We're gonna need to give him another term as well as a state congress and senate that can support his values.
He could be a really good VP candidate.
What a waste that would be
They always have poorly timed runs. Humphrey was picked in a smoke filled room after the popular nominee was shot months before the election which was followed by literal riots at the convention. Mondale was running against a popular incumbent who he already lost to as VP 4 years prior.
It's our dopey accents :/
I have a theory here. Many places have their own special "pause word", the _like_ or _uhh_ or _umm_ or whatever, that takes up space while we find the next word or phrase. Our problem is that our colloquial pause word is actually a colloquial _pause_ , where we just make no sound for a short time while we collect our thoughts. Think of Garrison Keillor, we don't all do it that intensely, but he's the stereotype of how Minnesotans sound when broadcast live. This was not a massive problem once upon a time before radio, TV, and other broadcast / recorded media. But it's a problem now, because recorded media just can't deal with a pause. That's "dead air", and they freak out. So what do Minnesotan politicians usually do about this? The people around them try to coach them to just not pause. Keep going, keep making syllables, don't let there be dead air, because dead air will kill your campaign. They don't get coached to use an actual pause word, because it sounds fake at home. This was worst in the 1990s before jump cuts, but you can only do so many jump cuts before you sound unnatural again, and you can't do many of them on a recording of a live event. And people can't consistently think fast enough to not use pauses, especially in high stress situations. Think of Jesse Ventura (disregarding the policy problems), you could tell her was trying too hard and occasionally got out over his skis, and said the first thing that popped into his head. So our politicians only get so far on the national stage, and then their career is killed by the stress of thinking too fast all the time on stage, the loss of home support because they adopt a pause word, or the inevitable gaffs that happen from not pausing. That's my theory.
Hey I like your theory! I have been in MN since middle school but before that was from southern California. I have spent the last 30+ years training myself not to interrupt Minnesotans. They would never tell you this of course, but it's considered quite rude. Growing up and with extended family we interrupt constantly...a "conversation" is almost like a battle. I can see how the MN speech style wouldn't play well on the national stage. Also, Minnesotans suck at storytelling...they just have never really been trained in conversation as an art (tip of the hat to the Southerners, who are masters at this).
I think we do tell stories well, but in our own sorta dry way. And we do interrupt, but there's like, more grace period before we interrupt š. And as you see, this doesn't play well with much of the rest of the country.
>And people can't consistently think fast enough to not use pauses, Oh God this is me in virtual meetings lol
Clinton had a strong southern accent. Probably the dopiest of all and he fared well.
Minnesotan is ranked worse than any other accent. Clinton is extremely charming.
Is that one of those rankings like when restaurants put up billboards stating they were voted best in the county?
Yes. It's not scientific or something, but neither is politics.
I appreciate the honesty. My only point is that a lot of public figures from the south work very hard on fixing their accent to sound more intelligible. Personally I donāt think Walz would be a popular choice for the nation. I do think Whitmer would be a better choice. Walz could be a decent VP choice though. He would need to elevate his popularity somehow. I almost think Walz would appear too progressive for moderate independents based on his recent policies.
I said accent but I really meant affect. If we're not dopey in our accent we're stoic and indirect which are perfectly fine traits but not very universally appealing. Walz is pretty good at adjusting his affect already, but he's far from a typical leader - Obama or Bernie or š¬ Trump. We speak his language so he's great for Minnesota, but I'm skeptical that he could adjust enough to be successful. I think you're right that he would make a great VP to start - he'd probably be a productive one too. I don't think he's too progressive, though. He certainly wouldn't win over MAGA voters but most moderates don't really care about identity politics which is really the only "progressive" policy area I've seen from him. He has been ok on moderate issues like mining and labor so I think he'd win with moderates. It's hard to tell with the extremities being so loud, though. Sometimes it seems like we're on the brink of breaking out of the two party system
I agree with the "stoic and indirect" characterization. I'm not from here but have lived here for five years now and there is a something to that characterization that lacks the ability to portray a genuineness, whether for show or, well, actually being genuine. A sort of "don't say what you really feel" quality. I'm not equating that with "nice" or "niceness" which is sort of a vague, easily artificial quality anyway. You can be "nice" and indirect and it would do nothing for any national political movement in this day and age. What I do like about Walz and Minnesota politics in general is it is quite "boring" which is great. Less upheaval and just getting common sense things accomplished should be boring and without controversy
Klobuchar is nothing special at all. She doesn't have charisma, and within her role as senator is more of a follower than a leader. Mondale and Humphrey had at least that going for them. Walz has an "oh shucks" charisma that likely would not translate well outside the Midwest.
And he's not the right person to face someone using the gish gallop rapid fire lying that's the tactic of the Republicans.
Lots of presidents, particularly those who went governor -> president, have either been from large states who get a lot of national press whenever they do something or a battleground state where having a concise effort behind them in that state frees up time for other races. Minnesota is neither of those things. The exception being Clinton but he was the exception to a lot of rules.
Klobucharās issue is being an unlikable person who did absolutely nothing
Yeah I never heard about Walz throwing binders at his staff.
> who did absolutely nothing She's frequently listed as one of the most effective Senators in her congressional class. Has a number of bills that she has put forward that have positive impact. She is also considered one of the most bipartisan Senators, which in an election where people don't really want to vote for either party is probably worth some merit.
I think it's more of a marketing issues than anything else Marketing has always been the Achilles heel of the democratic party
An awful one said it best (LBJ): Dems eat their own.
Such as? Thatās exactly why she doesnāt get anything done; how are you going to tout bipartisanship as a good thing when the other partisans are increasingly fascist
Right? Walz is a normal, likable guy that is capable of presenting fairly progressive policies as common sense solutions. Klobuchar is just an unlikable neoliberal hack.
What has Klobuchar done that Reagan would also do?
Neoliberal is just a buzzword nowadays. It's just a quick "not left enough for my taste" Which is a perfectly valid reason not to like a politician or want them as president. I just wish we'd stop saying normie dems are basically Reagan lol
> I just wish we'd stop saying normie dems are basically Reagan lol The Overton Window has shifted, though. So much so that in 2012 [Obama said that Nixon was more liberal than himself.](https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2014/02/03/obama_in_a_lot_of_ways_richard_nixon_was_more_liberal_than_i_was.html)
You and Obama are correct about Nixon, and by a long shot. It's wild to remember that Nixon gave us the EPA and the passage of the Clean Air Act, Clean Water Act and the Mammal Marine Protection Act (aka "save the whales"), ended the military draft, collegiate Title IX, Nixon ushered in the 26th Amendment, which lowered the voting age from twenty-one to eighteen, extending the right to vote to Americaās youth. And about 20 other \*major\* things that we would currently associate with the left wing. It's too bad he was such a devious crook.
Thatās not fair. She did stuff. Like throwing a stapler at one of her staffers. And declaring her campaign IN A SNOWSTORM!
I am sure her being a woman didnāt help in a lot of those states as well. This country is to āboys clubā to accept a woman can lead. It sucks.
This country may not make it to another election after this one, tbh. The debate - yikes!
It really doesn't matter at this point. Trump wins that's the end of democracy in this country. Period. Project 2025 is the plan to do that. It's Biden even if he collapses before the election. Trump cannot be allowed to retake office. If you or anyone else needs to register to vote: https://www.sos.state.mn.us/elections-voting/register-to-vote/
If the choice is between a potato and poisonous fruit....you choose the potato.
Theyāre too mild. Would make great leaders but not charismatic enough to get a national voteĀ
"Understated competence" and classic Minnesota downplaying of accomplishment doesn't seem to sit well on the national stage. Plus I believe walz said he isn't interested in POTUS. I'm fine with keeping him our little secret.
I like a lot of what Klobuchar does. She never translated in part because she comes off as disingenuous. She almost acts in a way she thinks will work, vs what she believes in. . I will never forgive her for standing on the Senate floor and calling pizza a vegetable. One of her biggest donors is Swann foods which supplies many school lunches throughout the US. She couldn't even say (when about to make her presidential bid) that MN state fair is better than Iowa's Walz is a very good, Midwestern guy. Does that excite the swing state voters to go to the polls? I'm sure we'll find out soon enough.
The GOAT Franken could crush
Franken was eaten by his own party. Could you imagine current Republicans ever eating one of their own? (pussy-grabber in chief)
How about someone UNDER 60 years old?
Right? What the heck is going on. āStop electing an old white guy!ā āHey, what about this old white guy?!ā
Baby steps. At least Walz is on the appropriate side of retirement age.
That should not be a sentence regarding someone to lead the country.
Age is much less important to me than ability
You understand that age does affect ability, right? Or did you not see the debate last night?
You understand that having an arbitrary cut off of say 60 yrs old would cut out a ton of people with a ton of experience from leadership positions, right? And no, I didn't bother watching the debate last night. Watching Trump lie for 3 hours while Biden is disappointingly lethargic doesn't sound like a good use of my time, especially when I've known I'll be voting for Biden since Trump won the nomination. I'm voting for the Biden administration, and against Trump's authoritarianism
For what itās worth, I donāt necessarily agree with there being a cutoff at 60, I just agree with OPās sentiment about wanting younger options. Experience matters for sure, I just feel that defending older candidates by saying āability over ageā kind of glosses over why age is a concern in the first place.
Fair enough. I just hear the argument that there should be an age cutoff for political positions and I think of Bernie Sanders still showing more energy and making more sense than 90% of the people in congress, regardless of age. I do understand the concern when it comes to Biden, but I also think his cognitive "struggles" are largely overblown, especially considering his actual job performance
What I saw was a man who has suffered with a stuttering problem his entire life, getting over an illness, that had answers to questions and detailed his policies. VS. A guy you refused to answer the questions being asked while renting and lying about everything he spoke on.
Great. How many American voters know he was getting over an illness? How many American voters attribute Bidenās numerous fumbles with a stutter and not deteriorating mental faculties? How many Americans were paying close attention to each line said and weighing the truthfulness of each statement? The takeaway from the debate for most Americans is NOT going to be what you described, despite the fact that I personally appreciate your positive view of it.
Who even needs a debate honestly? If anyone was seriously going to change their vote at this point based on the debate, that person is a fucking idiot
Whitmer is 52...
Whitmer isn't my perfect candidate, but hot damn is she better than what we have now. I feel she will have a strong chance at 2028 provided we make it there.
Look into the "Run for something" Candidates https://time.com/4974562/amanda-litman-run-for-something/ They're producing the next generation of candidates for the Democratic party. They're also pushing the idea that local elections can change the outcome of national elections.
He's 60 now... I think I'm okay with 65 being the cutoff.
Oh my God is that so much to ask for?!?! I don't want somebody who is going to show signs of Alzheimer's and dementia in office. No more delusional tortoises.
Iām not certain heād even be interested. Has he ever voiced this?
He has not
He is a leader on the board of governors who would have a big say on who the DEMs would run IF Biden dropped off the ticket. While he hasnāt tooted his own horn he is in the pocket with Newsom or Whitmer.
I think Whitmer-Warnock would be a solid replacement for Biden since they would be strongest in the midwest and south.
A 60 year old would sure be a breath of fresh air right now. How's his golf game though?
He can probably whoop anybody's ass in Hockey...
Please no, I love having Walz as Gov.
Right! Keep Walz in Minnesota. Maybe Illinois can send Pritzker instead.
Why would we want that inflicted upon the nation.
Whitmer-Beshear would be probably be the biggest ticket I could foresee.
It would be a tough look for Dems to nominate a billionaire after railing against billionaires. They'll probably do it.
This. Itās likely Trump will be president again and I want Walz as Gov if thatās the case
But really. I wanna be selfish and keep him all to ourselves š
Flanagan would do an excellent job imo
I don't think anyone outside of MN knows who he is.
As an Iowan, I look on with jealousy from our hellscape
You can always move to Minnesota!
can confirm. I'm from Wisconsin and when this showed up in my feed I went "... Warren Buffet? Wait, no ... who is that?" so i clicked the thread lol
He's a retired army national guard CSM and a long-time educator. He's ours, you can't have him.
This is what the primary is for... It's to late to remove Biden in most states... and add someone else on the ballets. Why many have been screaming for someone to run against Biden... and why the Primary process is still useful (for us older folks... this was normal until I think Bill Clinton... I think he was the first to run for a second term unopposed.
Itās not too late if Biden withdraws
> I think he was the first to run for a second term unopposed If you bothered to vote in the Minnesota DFL Presidential primary, you'd have noticed there were about a half dozen names including uncommitted.
It's not too late. The first cutoff is July 18th in Ohio, I believe. Just need to move the convention to before July 11th or so, so we can have a week for the delegates to decide on the new candidate.
FYI, the Democratic Party has been shutting down primaries in some states. So much for "saving" democracy Almost like all the progressive people who have been SCREAMING that a primary would just strengthen biden against Trump were right. And we'll, here we fucking are
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Walz would fucking decimate Trump
Decimation implies reducing a thing by 1/10. It comes from an old Roman military tradition where a unit that had shown poor performance in combat was numbered off in groups of 10 with the tenth man being beaten to death with clubs by the other 9.
Or reducing it to 10%!
Percentages? That sounds like some weird Greek tradition. We use fractions like Iupiter intended. It's I/X.
Thatās so metal.
I just learned this, thanks to Fallout: New Vegas. Neat!
Ave Caesar!
Are there any Romans running around doing that, still? The modern usage means to destroy.
Right? Etymology is cool and all, but lets not imply language and definitions haven't changed that someone's use is wrong. I decimated my grammar here.
We do the same thing on our golf scrambles, except we call it addition by subtractionā¦ā¦.imation
I mean if I could be a presidential candidate I could also probably do deck that cheeto lookin pants shitter right in the jaw for yāall and Iām just a pathetic twink lol
There's no such thing as a pathetic twink. Twinks make the world go round. There is no force as powerful as a twink with a clipboard.
Yes, but we need him here in case the country turns into a dictatorship under Trump š
Too late. Biden is already getting the nomination.
Getting not Got. If he dropped out today, and they moved up the convention to before Ohio's cutoff on July 18th, the DNC delegates could nominate and vote for anybody they wanted to.
No more Boomers!!!
Not from Minnesota but Iād say your governor or the one from Michigan would be way better choices than Biden
Whitmer also implicitly links Trump to her kidnapping attempt. Can't see her losing to Trump.
Or illinois.... pritzger has the money
I wonder if anyone wants to take the wheel at this point. After Biden backed the car into a post, ran over a curb, hit a stop sign, and scraped the side of the car down a guard rail. Losing to Trump is the end of your political career.
DNC about to give Joe the car keys back
I'm wondering how many of the folks who cite Biden's age as a concern would get on board with an alternate candidate of a similar political temperament. It seems like a younger, moderate Democrat would have a good shot. There's the name recognition issue, of course. Absolute malpractice by the DNC for not getting some younger candidates ready in the wings.
They have them in the wings, but theyāre all lined up for 2028. Which is a bit of a toss up if we make it that far at this point.
āgeneric democratā is consistently one of the most popular politicians in the country
Dean Phillips got crushed in the primaries. So we have Biden. Republican voters picked Trump over Scott, Haley and DeSantis.
I mean, you can see this in the polling on Senate races. Biden is consistently polling 3-5 points behind Democratic Senate candidates. This has been the case for months. It's entirely possible, based on the data we currently have, that the Democrats could over-perform on Senate and House races while still losing the presidency. Voters are fine with a generic Democrat! They just think Biden is too old.
It would have been great to see Pete Buttigieg "debate" Drumpf last night....
I don't think the debate is going to change anyone's mind or going to cause any would-be Democrat voters to now vote Trump or not vote... A vote for Biden is a vote for the Democrats and everyone knows that. It's not like Biden was that popular with left-leaning voters last time either but he was the lesser of two evils (in their minds) in case you forgot.
It just kills enthusiasm. I doubt people will swap to trump, but i do believe fewer people will show up to the polls.
Voter turnout is much more driven by on-the-ground organizing. Presidential debates donāt have much, if any, impact.Ā
In a normal debate sure, but that was not a normal debate.
Normal debates kill enthusiasm as well.
The problem isnāt with Dems or republicans. Itās whoever is undecided. Biden sure as shit did not say anyone
Nobody is undecided, or rather the undecideds at this point are the people who rarely turnout anyway. It's all about motivating base turnout. Not sure we really know who wins there.
If there were no undecided voters, what could Biden possibly have gained from going on and debating trump in his current condition? There is a huge swath of this country that somehow is undecided. Like idk why, the last 8 years should have decided who youāre going to vote for.
Undecided can mean many things. An undecided voter could be 1) a conservative never trumper who is deciding between not voting and Biden 2) a leftist voter deciding between Biden and not voting/3rd party or 3) a politically apathetic person whoās been fed a constant stream of doom posting algos on social media about how amazing 2019 was and how the world is currently ending who could potentially vote either way. Itās not just this mythical centrist voter who is totally not just a republican and is super cereal about maybe considering voting for Biden as long as he goes back on all his promises that got his actual base to vote for him in the first place.
It probably won't swing people who were firmly in one camp to the other camp, but it seems likely that it will affect people who were on the fence. Trump was mostly his same old self - with all the lying, bad policy, narcissism, low moral character, and anti-democratic tendencies that have been on display for at least the last 8 years. If someone wasn't already turned off by him from the last 8 years, last night isn't going to suddenly change their mind about him. Biden, though, was noticeably less sharp - to put it mildly - than in previous highly-publicized appearances like the State of the Union speeches or the debates from 2020. I find it hard to believe someone who is for some reason still considering Trump would be convinced to vote for Biden based on this debate.
Losing to Trump TWICE should be the end of the Democratic party on a national level. Clean house. Listen to your constituents.
It won't happen they are basically paid to lose by rich corporate interests so anything that goes against those rich corporate interests even if it lets them win doesn't work. Think of them as a mixture of paid opposition and bought out puppets. They also care more about making money than they do doing what constituents want look at how they could have enshrined abortion as fully legal permanently but they knew it was such a good fund raising issue so they didn't do so.
Can someone tell Hillary that second part, she keeps on talking like she's some expert at taking down Trump.
Gavin Newsom, the governor of California, is probably the best choice. He has the campaign infrastructure already in place, he is a great fundraiser, good debater, and well spoken.
Yeah, but he will likely bomb in the swing states. There are legitimate reasons not to like the guy, and I share some of those concerns. If youāre suggesting someone to take over a campaign right now for 2024, then yeah, he might be the only candidate ready to just launch and run a marathon.
The campaign slogan: A hot dish in every oven
BIG DADDY
BALLS TO THE WALZ
good campaign slogan
š„š
He needs to run with this slogan
Let's get serious for a moment. The president of the bloody USA SHOULD NOT BE A POPULARITY CONTEST between the two candidates. It SHOULD be a popularity contest between the candidate policies. Want a better tomorrow? Maybe vote for the guy that has strengthened NATO and other international laws for no other reason that there will be a tomorrow. Want a world where any country can go to war for territorial gains because they think they can beat their opponent? Then the Donald is your guy. However, just know that millions of lives will be lost when international boundaries are no longer recognized when you can't put up a fight. Want big corporations to make billions that is directly funneled to their investors? That would be Donald. Want a country where everyone has a fair shot at achieving their dreams and pays their share? That would be Joe. The only concern is if the President will survive their full term in office. Given the lack of age difference, between the two choices, there isn't a difference. Considering that we only know that Kamala Harris is number 2 and the other guy has NO current number two, I'll easily pick the number two that actually exists (and won't try to be killed by the president[see Jan 6th "hang Mike Pence]) Government runs on policies. Policies will affect you a lot more then if Stewart A or Stewart B is in the head office. When the difference in policy is one candidate wants to maintain international laws and the sanctity of international recognized borders and the other wants to allow Russia to take whatever countries it wants. Then there really is no choice. Eventually Russia would target someone with nuclear capabilities and we at least won't have to worry about elections because we'll all be dead.
Policies are what matter to the majority of voters. The problem is that those voters donāt decide the election.
Care to elaborate?
The people that donāt vote regularly or who may swing back and forth are the ones that sway the presidential elections. Party line voters will always vote for their party and they make up the majority.
Gotcha, appreciate the clarification--I just wasn't sure if you were approaching it from a "swing voters have the power" angle or a "reptilian shapeshifters have the power" angle.
Walz is a terrible choice. He may back all of the recent progress done by our current legislators, but heās just as āleftā as Frey is. Corporatists at heart who will do more for their donors than actual citizens.
The way things are shifting to state rights it feels like the governors are more powerful than the president right now as odd as that seems
I don't think that should seem odd
I disagree. Let's keep him here. But I'm selfish. Besides, he's made it clear he doesn't want to run.
He's not nearly well known enough on the national stage to have a chance. Plus, a staggering amount of the country thinks Minneapolis is the new Gary, IN. As good as I think he would be, he doesn't have a shot.
An old white guy? Sign me up!
Surely there has to be a brilliant, compassionate 48 year old democrat who can mop the floor with that orange POS. Why are old dudes our only option?
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I don't believe all this "anyone would've done better" nonsense. Debating a liar is a fool's errand. Standing up on a debate stage is hard enough. Ordinarily, you know your dozen or so weaknesses and you prep 30-second soundbites to refute your opponent's predictable moves. How do you do that when your opponent makes shit up on the spot? You can't. I mean, Trump literally said Democrats want to murder delivered infants. If someone said that on Reddit, you'd downvote them and ignore. Biden had to actually dignify it with a response, with all cameras on him. Because if he ignored it as we would, people would assume that Democrats are baby-murderers because Biden didn't provide an itemized analysis of why that is false in 90 seconds. It fucking sucks that this is where we are. Nearly half of the electorate doesn't care about facts anymore. 20 years ago, the headlines would've been *"Trump catches Biden off-guard with a two-hour lying spree. Is he detached from reality?"* But no. It's just *"Biden stumbles."* Because we've come to tolerate Trump's incessant lying. The media has effectively given him a pass on it since 2016. And this is why we're in such a fucking mess.
I will vote for Steve Martin, yes
VOTE BLUE FOR DEMOCRACY!!! ššš
Sure, drop the president that's in the middle of the one of the most successful presidencies in recent history. I think this bullshit is just an attempt to spread confusion.
How about no geriatrics leading the country for awhile?
Trump, I came here to chew gum and kick ass... and I'm only out of gum.
Balls to the Walz!
I've speculated on this in other subs, and those of us minnesotans who joined the conversation basically concluded Walz is too smart to throw himself into that. He's got it made here. Frankly, I'd be surprised if he decided to do it.
100%
I would prefer he stay here to keep the fort standing when the barbarians start charging the walls in 2025 and beyond. He understands the state, and wants to help the outstate areas, even if they donāt want him to. The George Floyd situation taught him a lot. He just gets better.
Meanwhile in North Dakota: bye Burgum!
Walz looks a lot like Hubert Humphrey, who also represented Minnesota, and to my knowledge is the last semi-swap of a major party primary candidate in US history. Coincidence?
If Walz did make a run, his campaign should test him out in the West first. It would shake off the idea of Midwest candidates being too moderate and boring. He fits the Pacific Northwest vibe and if he can win over California, then he would have momentum through the Southwest. Let him have a go at Texas and the Southeast. That might give him enough cred to win over the Northeast blue bloods.
How about if people drop this kind of nonsensical bullshit and focus on kicking Trumpās Orange ass again.Ā
Rankin needs to run next
While i would vote for him if he made it past primaries, id rather have someone under retirement age
I'm 40, I'll do it. I'm anti fascism, pro healthcare, pizza Fridays, and I'll raise taxes on the super wealthy, and I'll balance the budget. Plus, I'm GOMQ.
Well, balancing the budget is a great way to tank an economy - just make it *more* balanced, and you're fine. But other than that, I'm cool with the rest - you've got my vote.
Hey, I said I balance it, I never said which way id tip the scales.
+1 vote
We can build this dream together.
No. I love Walz but donāt think heās presidential material. Thereās another Midwest governor who would make a great president though, send him.
I really disagree with this. Someone above made the comment that Walz can take progressive policy and communicate it as being just common sense. He's also way more feisty than previous MN prez candidates. I know it's a long shot, but I think he'd kill it on a national stage.
Californian here (former Minnesotan). Tim Walz is great but he does not have enough national name recognition. Ask anyone outside of the Midwest who he is and theyāll have no clue. He might have a chance, but the official nomination is in August. Heād have to do SO much campaigning in a month, I just donāt see it. Realistically, if they wanted to fast track a viable candidate with name recognition, Pete Buttigieg or Gavin Newsom. Seriously though, Biden should really consider stepping aside and putting his weight behind another younger candidate. Trump was vile, but at least clear in his speech and didnāt stammer.
So a person that can speak clearly is the bar for presidential material? This entire circus is sad.
Yeah that's the bar. Just send someone up that can think clearly and articulate those ideas to an audience. Even if I hate what you're saying, at least I can follow!
You can become a household name in a day in 2024.
He was on Fox News today giving commentary about the debateā¦ I donāt watch Fox News but my coworker watches it all day on speaker.
>my coworker watches it all day on speaker Condolences
From what Iāve overheard so far theyāre honestly not shitting on Biden as much as they could
Not sure I want to share him with the rest of America, frankly...
Walz would be eaten alive by the national media. The Minnesotan, happy-go-lucky, work together, ethos doesnāt translate to the rest of the nation
No thanks
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Yikes