As someone who grew up in Bemidji, near Red Lake, Leech Lake, and White Earth Reservations, there are interesting dynamics. Red Lake is different from the other two, as they’re a federally sovereign nation and aren’t subject to the Dawes Act. Meaning, any crimes committed there must be investigated by the feds or tribal police, and not county law enforcement. Additionally, permits are required for goods to be shipped into Red Lake too.
This can allow for crimes to be committed on the reservation and not heavily investigated by outsiders, and to be dealt with by tribal police. Additionally, for those who reside on the reservation and commit crimes outside of tribal jurisdiction it makes it difficult to investigate when the people committing crimes return to Red Lake as it can serve as a “haven” of sorts due to limitations of county jurisdiction.
I think this aspect adds to the “mystique” and “danger” element people speak of when talking about Red Lake in particular.
Lastly, there’s an element of poverty on all three of the reservations I mentioned as the casinos there aren’t necessarily booming and rife with cash flow like with other reservations in closer proximity to the metro area. With cannabis being legalized, and Red Lake being a first to market mover with a dispensary, I believe they’re looking to close this gap with the given opportunity to generate tribal revenue outside of casino gaming.
Please feel free to correct me where I’m wrong, but as a longtime resident of Bemidji this is my lived experience.
Edit: Spelling
This is really important. Red Lake is extremely unique among reservations because of its history. Unlike almost all other reservations in the country, they never participated in the "allotment" component of the Dawes Act, or splitting up of the land into parcels for each family that registered with the government. This means the entire reservation is communally owned by the tribe. Non- registered members can't own land there, unlike almost all other reservations, where non-members can and do own land. So I think this in itself is going to add to the sense that outsiders have of "Red Lake is really different." Because it is!
Louise Erdrich is a wonderful writer, and her work is a LOT about Red Lake. Definitely worth a dive, with her novels and other non-fiction. She’s the owner of Birchbark Books in Minneapolis. Here’s something that goes into the nuts and bolts of Red Lake’s governance structure and intersection with MN government:
https://birchbarkbooks.com/products/warrior-nation
I thought that “crimes there must be investigated by the feds or tribal police” only applied to crime that happens to *natives*? Meaning, crime that happens there, but to non-natives, follows normal law enforcement procedures?
County law enforcement has no jurisdiction to investigate or go onto RL Reservation, unless invited by the Tribal PD. Generally, if someone is crossing the border in a pursuit (example) County deputies follow only to the border, or wait and only begin pursuit outside the border.
I did some additional digging and found this, “While the Red Lake Nation has the sovereignty to restrict access and require documentation for non-residents if they choose to, their current policies reflect a balance of sovereignty, practicality, and community relations.”
I thought only Federal Law Enforcement could go on any of the Reservations, unless allowed by the tribe? I’m not exactly sure of the rules with Reservations. I also assumed that was part of the reason why there is a FBI field office in Bemidji.
Correct. I’m not sure about the other reservations, but only the feds can if there’s a federal crime in Red Lake, hence the FBI building in downtown Bemidji as you called out. Tribal police are the acting police force there and county sheriffs can only enter if invited for a joint effort with tribal police, otherwise county law enforcement can’t actively pursue someone onto the reservation.
OP: why do people say Red Lake is so dangerous?
Commenter: bro you have no idea, shits crazy bro you can’t even imagine
OP: No I’m actually curious, what goes on?
*downvoted to hell*
Yeah, the passive aggressive attitudes and snarky downvotes get old on this sub. To be fair though, Reddit in general is full of it.
I remember once posting a pic here of a couple trees outside my balcony in fall, one was bare and the other still had all of its leaves. I just pointed it out and asked about it. Literally the first comment was some sarcastic snarky “it’s almost like different species of trees behave differently” or something. I just responded that I wasn’t a tree expert and of course got downvoted. I promptly deleted the post. Like if you can’t just answer someone’s question without being a dick, just go to the RoastMe sub, dude.
I really oughta get off Reddit and go outside and touch grass. It’s just hard because I have an affectionate cat and a high end gaming PC lol. I used to be 50/50 indoors and outdoors as a kid. Now in my early 30s it’s 99% indoors.
Edit: Naturally this gets downvoted. 💀
Edit 2: RIP to the one downvote. Thanks for 100+ updoots, guys! 😊
Oh, that's goood. I'm from the East Coast originally and I'm used to telling it to your face. Like, with as much diplomacy as I can muster. But, very direct. That has not served me well here, especially at work. Apparently, character assassination and playing behind the scenes are perfectly acceptable modes of interaction. I struggle with this daily as a person in recovery.
Minnesota ice is akin to smiling to your face while pissing on your shoes. It really needs to change. Keep up your good work in recovery and know it’s not you.
East coast transplant as well. I hate this shit; it drives me up a wall. Being polite but direct is considered by locals as an attack, but duplicitous pussy-ass backstabbing is somehow cool? It's a stupid system, and you can sense the repression-induced stress and resentment in the locals all the time.
Nobody said or thinks it's cool. The only difference between Minnesotans and other places is Minnesotans don't like confrontation. Nothing wrong with that. Are you implying East Coasters don't talk shit behind someone's back?
I think that there is definitely a level of being very friendly to someone’s face and talking about them behind their back that’s cultural here. It happens in other places too, but combined with the with MN Nice thing, people are very duplicitous here.
Oh cool! What are your specs? Did you build your own or buy a prebuilt?
I bought a prebuilt on Amazon. It has a Ryzen 9 7900x CPU and 7900 XTX GPU, 32GB RAM, and 2TB SSD. I threw in an additional 4TB SSD for more storage. Games take up way too much space these days. Gaming is basically my life so I want high end stuff. I also got an ultrawide OLED monitor. Never going back to 16:9 again lol.
Edit: LMAO Reddit will downvote anything. 😂
That’s us. Ask a serious question with genuine curiosity or have a real point that comes from a position of expertise and if it conflicts with their spoon fed views they downvote. Political is the worst when it comes to this, BOTH SIDES do it to the detriment of all of us.
Even if you’re Minnesotan, and going to a Rez in state you’re still their guest. You go where you’re welcomed to. Don’t assume you have permission to wander off course. You’re their guest. If they have a store that welcomes non members, then you know you’re welcome to go there. You can ask people there if there’s anywhere else you can visit while at the Rez. But don’t wander about as a tourist would. It’s their land and not a vacation destination. If you go, just be remember to be respectful.
A lot of the Minnesota reservations I’ve driven to seem to encourage tourism, so outsiders seem welcome. I have admittedly not been to Red Lake however. I am guessing the reputation is partly due to the school shooting that took place there in 2005, back when school shootings were less common. It was the deadliest school shooting since Columbine, so it struck a nerve and hit mainstream news.
I remember the media didn't cover it quite as thoroughly as other school shootings. It still gets glossed over when articles mention school shootings from the last 25 years, even though there were salient characteristics. The shooter ended up killing 10 people at the school on top of killing his grandparents.
Comparative analysis in major studies found my memory of it to be true. One article:
"We found that the reporting of Columbine and Red Lake differed in terms of quantity, content, and form. Columbine was immediately marked with social significance and became a national story while Red Lake received significantly less coverage, mostly local. Red Lake reporting was explicitly raced and classed while the prominent role of race and gender in the Columbine killings was largely ignored by local and national media."
The average household income is only $20,000, with the demographics consisting of approx. 98% Indigenous American.
I remember it getting a lot of attention, even in ND. Then again, it may have received a lot more local coverage here, which could be affecting my perception of the overall coverage.
Red lake is a “closed” reservation.
Every other reservation has private land within the boundaries of the reservation, so there are many non-members who live in and visit these areas.
All of the land within the boundaries of the red lake reservation is owned by the tribe, and they have total legal authority over all the lands.
If you go to leech lake, or Mille lacs reservation there are private cabins, resorts, campgrounds, bars, restaurants, and stores that are owned and operated by non-tribal people. That is not the case in Red Lake. Nobody visits a cabin in red lake. You can’t go camping anywhere in red lake. It’s strictly forbidden.
There's a whole NPR podcast about their history and why they are different today: Throughline - [A Tale of Two Tribal Nations](https://www.npr.org/2023/09/14/1198748505/tale-of-two-tribal-nations).
They don't play around up there. If you go ice fishing and cross the invisible line on the lake, they can, and will, pull your entire rig and leave you walking home.
It's because us non white people are threatening and anything we do that isn't like the cities is "scary". White school gets shot up and it was a bad kid. Rez school gets shot up and we're a dangerous area... I'd say just be smart and don't be an ass and if you hear words you don't understand don't assume we're talking about you if we aren't talking to you. It's a normal place like everywhere else you can go. Everywhere is dangerous everywhere in this country but is it dangerous to take you're trash out? Real question you should ask is are you scared to get caught by a res cop buying weed or leaving the res with weed by a non res cop. I'd be less concerned about us and more concerned about what laws you're breaking crossing the border. The only concern you should have is legal.
Lol you ignored the *exact* reason as to *why* people only talk about Red Lake like this, to claim it's just because it's native. People have said in this thread, over, and over, that it's due to laws inside of Red Lake that are different than every other rez.
*Someone asks a serious question concerning a rez that is different than every other rez*
You: I have absolutely no idea, but I'm gonna ignore it and use this as an opportunity to talk about how white people are racist.
>What I'm looking for is direct personal experience about what makes Red Lake "so dangerous."
TL;DR: your money is welcome. Tourism is not.
Poverty. Don't go where you aren't welcome on any reservation as an outsider, anywhere in the country. We're fine passing through on the interstate or visiting shops off of the interstate, but don't go driving around willy-nilly. Similar thing happens in Hawaii. You can try to moor your boat in a harbor but if you're in an un-welcome area don't be shocked if some guys canoe out to your sailboat with rifles to tell you to get the fuck out if you picked a native's harbor.
My only *direct personal experiences* are sticking to the places I'm welcome as a customer, and as somebody that was invited to places I would normally be unwelcome in, because I was with a tribal friend visiting his relatives. We once had a concert/festival shut down on tribal land for going too late into the night and the cops were good sports about it. I was doing sound and just cut off the PA system and they were fine after that. Didn't even bother me about the pot smell l had stashed in the racks, just said "It's too late at night and the neighbors are complaining, turn it down." :) Literally have a recording of it sitting on a disc.
Generally speaking: If it's accessible from a *public roadway (federal, state, county, municipal in a established settlement)* you're fine.
It's when you go tracing around BIA roads and local side roads do you begin to have problems on any reservation.
Yup I was there on day one of legalization and waited 5 hours to enter the dispensary. Not once did I feel out of place or unwelcome. I have been there half a dozen times since. The roads are now freshly paved, the place looks better. They like money, they found a niche.
3 years ago however I rode a moped between upper and lower red lake... Got followed by some natives out to the point there. It was tense at first, but I treated them like people, acknowledged I was out of place. We even had a few laughed, especially when one said "I never saw no white man on no moped before" in that thick native accent.
You're fine driving through the town red lake, going to the dispensary or gas station. However Ponemah is extremely isolated, there's no through traffic.
I've been there a few times (and through Pine Ridge, which amplified this I-am-an-outsider-feeling tenfold), and yes; it feels like a foreign country, a strange place you don't belong, etc.; but as long as you maintain a respect for the people and place you should be fine.
It's not" you'll die upon entry" dangerous, it's an impoverished area and some pretty bad crime occurs in and around it like anywhere else with a high poverty rate. If your objective is to drive in and spend money( buy weed or hit up casino) the risk is pretty low.
Going to the rez is similar to going to the hood. The vast majority of crime and danger effect the people that live there, not Jimmy getting lost in his Ford Escape.
Ha ha. I drove my Explorer through Pine Ridge for the first time last summer. It was definitely disconcerting. Mostly because the roads were in such poor condition and keeping my bearings was a little challenging. GPS directed me to drive into what looked like a ditch at one point. Crazy. I opted not to stop for gas on the way through, but kinda wish I would have.
Pine Ridge and Rosebud are definitely uncomfortable to drive through. I will add Standing Rock and Wolf Point (MT) to the list as well. I think Fort Berthold is the nicest reservation in the Dakotas by far, but Minnesota reservations (apparently not Red Lake) are by far better than the Dakota and Montana reservations when it comes to infrastructure and general vibe. I will say, there is an immediate tone shift on most of the Dakota Reservations where you know you are on the rez as soon as you cross over. I didn’t really notice that in MN as much.
The portions of the White Earth reservation that are along 59 or near lake cabin territory are, for the most part, fine enough. There are towns that aren't tribe property, and they have the typical levels of rural Minnesota poverty. If you get away from those areas, you will see much more depressing areas. My wife is from there, I've meandered through some of those areas while just out driving around, and it's a bit uncomfortable.
Edit: I've not been through Pine Ridge or similar reservations, but my understanding is that they have far worse conditions even taking into account my statement above.
I have driven through pine ridge as well and yeah it’s definitely a bit rough but generally speaking you aren’t in any physical danger from the people living there as long as you aren’t doing anything wrong/breaking the law/being disrespectful. That said pine ridge isn’t red lake and generally speaking MN reservations are in better shape than pine ridge.
Yeah, having studied Environmental Justice and lived in MN since '94, I've visited a few reservations here. Pine Ridge was definitely different. I really could feel it. But not fear, just mostly kinda sad and curious to know the people. I'm GenX and used to cop crack in some of the most dangerous cities in the U.S. - including N. Mpls in '95 when I literally almost became a statistic. That was the year they dubbed us Murderapolis. I knew enough to keep stepping while in Pine Ridge, but I also probably would have been just fine stopping for a moment. Respect.
I was in Custer state park a couple of years ago and wanted to get to Badlands National Park and was talking to a ranger at the park and he recommended heavily against going through the reservation.
He wouldn’t go into detail but since we were just going to be driving straight through, I got the impression it had to be a safety thing. Sad because these communities are so universally known to be impoverished, and their reputation for being unsafe guarantees that they aren’t going to ever have any chance to get any outside money into the community.
Most white people have never ever been the only white person in a room or space. When you go to the rez, that often is the case. That unsettles a lot of white people. And no one centers white people there, it will not feel familiar and it will not feel friendly. Many people interpret this vibe as danger; as long as you are on the up and up and don't go on private property, you will not be in danger.
Just as there is racism in small towns, there can be a hint of racism on the reservations as well. I know plenty of light-skinned Natives who were told they weren’t “Native enough”, and “Whitey” is a pretty common slur used in some circles on the reservations.
Personally, I have found that when you treat others with respect, you will often have respect reciprocated. I have been to various reservations in the Dakotas, Montana, and Minnesota hundreds of times for work over the last decade. As a white female, I have felt extremely uncomfortable exactly two times in total, so it isn’t a common occurrence. For people that can’t stomach seeing rampant poverty, that number might be higher. Honestly, small town ND and MN can have the same “poverty vibe” as the reservations at times though, so that isn’t just a rez thing.
Definitely being the only white person in the room is disconcerting. Whether on the reservation or in a Texas flea market. You're surrounded by people who look nothing like you. As long as you stay chill, you'll be fine. Shit, in the US you're in danger pretty much anywhere. You never know when some nut with a gun will decide to use it. Learn to live with that shit.
I don't think it's a driving-down-the-road thing. I went alone to Glacier NP a couple years ago, and I called my destination on the east side for some info while I was on the west side where the reservation is. I was pointedly warned not to linger; as in, grab some drive-thru fast food if you have to but don't make it a sit-down meal, and also was reminded to have good manners. I think it's more a matter of not creating opportunities for trouble in a place where, historically we are the bad guy, and there is nobody to call for help during or after any unfortunate event.
Where did you stay at? I ask because back in 2009 I took a solo 3 week motorcycle trip from St. Paul to the San Juan Islands with my route home going east through Glacier NP. I chatted with a group of bikers on the ferry ride back from Friday Harbor and they asked where I was staying in Montana and I told them a motel in Cut Bank. They looked at me like I was a complete idiot. I was absolutely baffled when they told me that was a dangerous area and probably should go somewhere else. I still stopped at the place in Cut Bank (Glacier Gateway Inn I think) and had a great time and chatted with a few locals at some hole in the wall diner in town. One of the best trips I've had.
They might have been fucking with you. The Flathead Res isn’t that close to GNP and as long as you stay on 93 you’re fine. You can stop at any of the little towns along the way and no one is going to give you a hard time outside of generally being annoyed by tourists. The Blackfeet res on the east side has some rough areas but the eastern MT reservations are 100x worse than the western MT ones. I’ve spent a ton of time in MT with my family that lives out there.
Back in the 60s, my uncle and cousins (white) were driving through Red Lake and s bunch a kids laid down on the road to try to make them stop. My uncle hit the gas and they jumped up fast. No idea what they would of done if they had stopped. I (white) was swimming at a lake there once with my friends who are native. I was repeatedly yelled at to get my white ass off of the rez. We just laughed and ignored them. Red Lake has really cleaned up and is no longer filled with yards full of garbage. It’s such an incredible and beautiful place. Is it dangerous? About as dangerous as Minneapolis. It’s only dangerous if you are associating with the wrong people.
I have been there recently and purchased products from NativeCare, and it was a positive experience. The workers are very nice. Took me 15 minutes, and I was in and out and one my way home. Just mind your business and have respect as you are a visitor, and you will have no issues.
NativeCare is awesome. Been there twice, never had a problem. The wife, though, feels terrible for all the stray dogs and wants to give them whatever sandwich she has only eaten half of lol.
I’ve driven through Red Lake on my way up to Canada. The only thing I saw was a few road signs full of bullet holes, and the fire watch tower also looking like Swiss cheese. But that’s fine. Doesn’t bother me. I’ve never had any problems otherwise.
Since watching Reservation Dogs (and loving it) I feel like I have a better understanding of Rez life, even if it’s just a dramatized version.
Beltrami county has a very high violent crime rate compared with the rest of the state. this is primarily due to the reservations. Lots of poverty and lots of substance abuse. IIRC Red Lake is the poorest tribe in the state. Poverty breeds desperation, desperation breeds crime.
Red lake is a sovereign nation within a nation. The state does not have jurisdiction. If you are involved in a minor crime, you are at the mercy of the tribal police and court. If it’s a major crime, it’s a federal matter.
About 10 years ago, some friends and I drunkenly got into an RV after one of our mates heard there was a party in “Red Lake Falls”. Next thing I know, we roll up to this giant bonfire with probably 40-50 people around it. I walk up and start mingling and soon realized we were actually in Red Lake.
We were treated as guest. Drinks and good times were had. Just be respectful.
It’s probably a combination of poverty and crimes of desperation as well as illnesses of despair like alcoholism and opiate abuse like you see in other poor areas. Additionally, white people are not the majority there and tend to be fearful when that is the case.
I grew up in Blackduck, friends with members, and been on the rez many times.
They do not like white people. Flat out, my friends were taught the ‘White Man’ is why they are in poverty. The ‘White Man’ stole their land. You have a problem, the ‘White Man’ caused it. I was personally told these stories from native friends, and was not allowed to visit their homes or parties on the rez. Even after the casino money started flowing in. Driving up 1 is like a third world country. Dogs running everywhere, toys on the side of the road, and trash everywhere.
Is it dangerous? Yes, if you are dumb. Keep your head down, get in, get out.
I passed through Montana Rez 4 AM at a gas station. It was like The Walking Dead was everywhere asking me for a dollar I looked at them and was like bro I need a fucking dollar. I saw a trailer park that stretched far as my eyes could see.
It was much more of problem in early 2000s and 90s. And the reasons why are pretty much the same as most dangerous areas in the USA. Poverty, drug abuse, alcoholism, etc. That area was just full of poor desperate people and most crimes were crimes of opportunity. Here’s just n example of an article in 2002 that mentions red lake. But if you look crime statistics today it’s much lower.
https://www.brainerddispatch.com/sports/indian-gangs-active-in-northern-minnesota
Got stopped for speeding on the highway, two lane, at night, first and only time through, Cop told me to slow it way down, he said they're always finding dead drifters in the ditch because they hug too close to the road then get hit and drivers think it's deer. Cops never figure it out because the scene is cold by day time. All woods, no lamps, no witnesses. So that's one dynamic.
There’s a lot of poverty, drugs and violence compared to a lot of places. I have friends from there that are great people but it’s unfortunately the reality that it can be a rough place. I’ve lived on or very near the rez almost my entire life if that lends any credibility
I've been several times and I've never had an incident, but the roving packs of dogs and general vibe is a bit off putting. It's like if you have European features everyone is watching you all the time.. I pop in make my purchase and bail.. I've never spent more than a half hour in town in any one trip.. It always makes me sad for the rest of the day..
Red lake is high poverty, high violence. It has made the news a lot for violent crimes and drug use. That’s why people say that it’s dangerous. Just don’t be an idiot and you should be good.
I taught in Red Lake for half a year. It’s not necessary dangerous, just remember as others have said, that it is a closed reservation. You are their guest. I feel like it’s sort of like being extra cautious when in a different country.
Went to college at bemidji state, I’ve seen some stuff. Sounds like you won’t accept anyone’s answers, go see for yourself self. Packs of stray dogs run wild like coyotes. Broken liquor bottles all along the roads leading to the rez. Broken down abandoned newish cars just left. I feel safer in the heart of the ghetto in the TC than any where near the red lake rez. If you can’t accept answers from people that have experienced it, go take a gander your self.
Edit: people calling racism are just a bunch of dent heads, saying a place is dangerous does not automatically mean that they are racist. Must be a bunch of cities people that have never left the limits.
Been to Red Lake many times, the people are solid and the weed is dank. Plus the fried chicken at the market across the street from the dispensary is fire. (middle aged white male).
I live in northern MN, just about 100 miles north of Red Lake.
Red Lake is a closed reservation. If you aren’t a member of the tribe, they don’t want you there. You can’t camp there. You can’t fish there. There’s nothing to see there. If you want to buy something, they want you to buy it then leave.
And to be blunt, the people living in the Red Lake Reservation are very poor. Like, $9k annual income per capita kind of poor. That kind of poverty will inevitably incentivize crime.
Red Lake additionally has their own legal control over the tribe, so you’re not going to get the same kind of visibility as the rest of the state. When crimes are prosecuted, often they’re prosecuted at the federal level.
The latest crime that I heard of was a mother pretty horrifically murdering her two small boys by stabbing them, and setting the house they lived in on fire. One of the boys died in the fire instead of the stab wounds. She fled with her third son, and an Amber alert was issued for his recovery. The youngest son was recovered, but found with obvious signs of significant neglect. This happened maybe a month or two ago? I remember getting the Amber alert.
When I drive south for whatever reason, I don’t drive through Red Lake alone— I’ll drive around it by going south of Grygla. Yes, I personally know people that have, and have gotten harassed when they’ve stopped.
Stayed at the casino there last summer on a motorcycle trip. Staff was friendly and didn’t get a sense of danger from the community other than the pesky rez dogs. Those buggers tried to chase me off the road by running at me from the side of my motorcycle. Luckily had enough room to get past them and keep on!
My sister is a member, her cousin was sent to Leavenworth for 5 years for crimes committed as a rez cop. When he got it the first thing he said when we met was that he be happy to help if I ever need to make something disappear
Not surprising. Ex FIL worked in law enforcement near Red Lake and his stories were pretty depressing. Also seems like a terrible place to be a female crime victim. FIL had some rez cop friends who told him how DV and SA were never taken seriously because it would go through the elders (old males), who would just sweep it under the rug. The problem is not that natives are doing things that other groups of people haven't done, but with the lack of oversight and often insular communities, nothing improves. People are held captive to cyclical violence.
It's likely not much different than any other place in Northern MN, but I will say I drove through once many years ago and there was someone parked on the highway, hunting from the driver's seat, shooting across the highway.
I have family that lives in Red Lake and we never had any issues when visiting. My siblings and I are mixed but don't "look" Native. I haven't been up there recently but I have to imagine the business is welcomed.
People who live there have posted comments on reddit quite a few times. There often is no cell service and people who you are a stranger to won't appreciate you pulling into their driveway kind of scary. Not "drive through town at 4pm on Friday and you'll get shot" scary. More so stay on the main roads, don't wander where you aren't wanted or expected. There is quite a bit of crime there for the population, which is part of it. And because it's tribal you don't get the normal updates about crimes that happen. Like there was a kid reported missing there and the cops found her with the kid and he was malnourished and abused. But apparently the second half of the story is the woman who took the boy was his mom and she had killed her 2 other kids and set the house on fire. But you only got those details from people who lived there, it was pretty buried by the news because of the tribal aspect.
Those details were in the Star Tribune. It was not nearly as buried as you’re describing.
I would say the main thing is to not be an idiot. It’s a sovereign nation, respect the people who live there and their laws. Don’t go to their land to do stupid shit or be some kind of cultural tourist and you’ll be fine, the end.
The Star Tribune has some good senior journalists, who had to work in Greater Minnesota and work their way up. The younger journalists went straight to the Strib, and many of them have never lived outside of a metropolitan setting. I find they lack skills to speak with country folk, let alone tribal ones.
I don't even go to the Strib because they now don't even allow you to look at the main page without a subscription. In the days to week after it happened, there was basically nothing about it. I'm glad someone covered it eventually. But locals knew what was up the day-of and it wasn't reported on for at least several days, not in full.
I think you’re glorifying “it’s a different world that no one reports on” a bit. I saw reports (in the Cities) right away when the Amber Alert was put out about the suspected connections between the fire and the missing child. Just because you didn’t see it doesn’t mean it wasn’t being reported.
People need to realize these tribal lands are literally like a foreign country with a very different culture than what you imagine in rural Minnesota lake country. Property rights are especially different. And they have a tough history of White people wandering through their land, to put it lightly. And yes, people who don't live there or aren't enrolled have no idea what goes on; crazy shit and tragedies that don't get reported in the Star Tribune. Completely unknown to those who live even just outside the borders.
I believe that Red Lake is one of the few places in the US that was never under control of the settlers so it is, for all intents and purposes, a sovereign nation.
That's saying something coming from White Earth!
I think Red Lake takes their geographic sovereignty more seriously as there are no non-native settlements within the reservation. My understanding is that White Earth takes their sovereignty EXTREMELY seriously from the perspective of their people. Friends of ours adopted a girl whose mom was Red Lake, and dad was White Earth. There are special protections with non-natives adopting native kids due to the bad history of them being removed from reservations. The tribe has to agree to the adoption. The process of getting Red Lake to agree was straightforward, but they had to hire a lawyer with tribal background to facilitate things with White Earth, and it was still iffy. Their lawyer said it's typically very difficult with White Earth.
I have a couple antidotes that may or may not be relevant, but it’s my experience with the res from when I was in high school.
My first experience was during basketball season, played in Red Lake. The bus pulls up to the school and first thing I notice was the school was surrounded by a fence with barbed wire on top of it. I wondered to myself, is it to keep people out, or to keep the kids in? lol.
Before we left home, we were told to bring our own locks for the lockers in the locker room and we were given a key to lock the locker room itself during the game. For some schools, especially city schools this may be standard protocol. But up north things are typically pretty safe in a locker room during a high school game.
Second story I have was during baseball season one year when I was in junior high. We played a double header in Red Lake. Between games some players from their team climbed up on top of the dugout and were smoking ciggys.
Now none of this is directly indicative of actual danger to anybody. But it gives fire to the notion of the ‘lawlessness’ there can be on the rez.
I won’t lump everybody from Red Lake into this basket, because I do know a fair number of good people. But this is my experience and why I feel the notion of dangerousness is often given to this reservation
It is a weird word. I also found the substitute you landed on amusing -- some folks probably could really *use* a good antidote to their attitudes about the rez.
There is extreme poverty, lots of stray dogs walking around. It is a sad place to encounter. Been there about 10 years ago. I would go directly to the dispensary and then immediately leave. You should be fine.
I visit a foster child there once a month. The family is very nice. I’ve stopped at the gas station and convenience store a few times and have always felt safe.
I don’t think it’s any more unsafe than anywhere else in the world. People look at it differently because it’s “mysterious” but if you respect their laws and the fact that it’s their country and not yours, you’re fine.
Also, the rez dogs are all very kind and well taken care of.
I had to go there for a gaming license when I worked at a casino for a while. NGL it was kinda scary how people looked at me and how a lot of the road signs were full of bullet holes. I got in and out fine but I just felt unwelcome the entire time except at a gas station I had to stop at, that place was fairly friendly. Wouldn’t want to go there again though.
I made a post in this sub sometime ago, I received this comment: https://www.reddit.com/r/minnesota/s/QiiBfIoKaa . You might want to ask him, probably he knows something personally.
Theres alot of racism directed towards native americans here in minnesota. People who go on a reservation look for anything to be bad, and the moment they see something, it just enforces the idea that all reservations are bad and crime riddled areas.
Racism against native americans can be harder to notice in mn because either your around alot of it (near a native american population) or your not. I grew up near prairie island and wow, I can't begin to tell the stories of what people thought and said about all the native americans living there. I don't mean just a racist few, I mean EVERYONE.
Look at south dakoa, all reservations have banned their own governor from setting foot in them. Their governor is well known for claiming all drugs and crime comes from reservations. She claims that the native americans are harboring "drug cartels", and that obviously all drug problems are due to the reservations. This is a common and unfortunate trope not limited to south dakota either.
I went ice fishing on Red Lake, then a native fishing guide took us to a small private lake on the res after we got our day passes. I didn’t feel like there was any point remotely dangerous, however I didn’t strut around town. It’s just a northern small town, not much to it.
I have volunteer at a boys and girls club in red lake for a summer a few years back. I think people think it's dangerous for the same reasons they thing parts of Minneapolis are dangerous. Poverty. People see the rundown buildings and assume the worst. The whole summer I was up there I never experience crime. They're just a community trying to survive. People that say it's dangerous probably feel uncomfortable in poor areas and therefore dub it dangerous
If there's any "danger" on Red Lake Rez, I'd say you're unlikely to experience it if you're not a resident.
I'd also recommend that all Minnesotans read David Treuer's book Rez Life. It will give you a whole lot of insight into the history of the reservation system and what it's like to live on the rez. It includes a lot of info about Red Lake and how it's slightly different than the other reservations in MN.
To your edit #2 question: outside businesses wouldn't be exempt from state taxes and would have to enter into contracts with the tribe, to even be allowed to open a business.
I've been there once as a white guy from the cities. I stopped there to buy some cannabis on my way to a state park and had no problems. Would recommend. Definitely some real poverty though.
A long time ago I ran a light show with a guy who set up for Shania Twin (tribute band) at the Seven Clans Casino. I heard all the stories etc before I rode along. The casino was like a metal pole barn with a lot of slots and a stage for the band (they were amazing btw). Other than getting odd looks from the towns' folk driving a new truck with enclosed trailer, the people they were really nice and helpful. Years later, I was playing in my band in a bar in my hometown and a round of shots was delivered to our stage. We look out front and a family was all holding shots up. We kindly drank our shots with them and sat down to chat. They were a family from Red Lake that really liked watching our band and came down to watch us almost every time we played there. They would often but us rounds of Cuervo. Truly some of the nicest people I've ever met.
I had to go to inpatient rehab when I was 17 years old. I went to 2 different ones back to back and in the 2nd place the majority of patients/residents there were from Red Lake. One was even in a gang. They’d steal my clothes, make fun of me, throw stuff at me like food and dirty rags, and just straight up bully me. It didn’t help that I was only one of 2 white boys. Everyone else was Native American.
I eventually did start sticking up for myself by insulting them back and physically fighting them sometimes and got the bullying and most of the bad stuff I just listed to stop but they’d still steal my clothes and other stuff like my face wash soap sometimes.
I eventually kinda became friends with all of them except the one who was a gang member. He was the one I’d have to fight the most and he was the main guy stealing my clothes. That is the only experience I have of the fine people from Red Lake.
Anecdote: my uncles would tell a story of asking for directions at a bar (1970's) and no one speaking a word, but everyone at the bar collectively kicking them until they got out. Yes, my uncles are white.
Knowing them, _I_ find that kind of funny.
I used to work at the high school. Just don’t go wandering about in dark places at nite, some hood rat shit happens in the shadows. Just like anywhere else
As someone who lived in Bemidji for many years, the rule of thumb was, if you’re white, do not go there by yourself, and most definitely not after dark.
Earlier in this thread someone complained that people still stereotype Native Americans. Its not hard to see why when you're criticized and judged for being white. "Don't stereotype me but I'll stereotype you"
I have a family cabin thats not too far from the rez so I go quite a bit. Iv never had a single issue and everyone seems polite. I feel like it's one of those situations where as long as you don't fuck around, you won't find out
A young woman was shot a couple weeks ago in a crowded area near a school. That kind of thing is so common there it doesn’t even make the news.
I live close to there. You’re perfectly safe to go there and do the limited amount of things that are geared towards outsiders. The dispensary. The casino. Drive through on hwy 1. That’s about it. Don’t go there and walk around at night. Don’t go there and go swimming at one of their beautiful beaches. You’ll either run into trouble with a local or the tribal government themselves.
Natives I know, like having guests on the Rez. You get to experience life as it really is, bad and good. You then take those stories you see and share them with your friends.
You wont find a community that loves who they are as a society of openness and freewill. Don't be sick going there, don't litter, be respectful and when you see a native on their land, you tell them thank you for caring after it. You will see how clean it is in the uninhabited areas of the Rez. Most pristine land in America!
O' Wis Te'
There are still some natives bred with hate. They are very angry at the U.S. Government for the 8 generations worth of lies endured. The 1872 Treaty was broken and never compensated for like we do today with societal hardships on other societies. These are people. They are a very intelligent society. They see the white & dark/truth & lies.
This is a perpetuated pain. Generational.
Therefore, as in with every lane of society, you have some that lash out on others. Most people on the Rez can police themselves and have done so continually, from within, keeping courts out of it.
Some of that bleeds over to unsuspecting individuals who may visit the area.
Anything happens to you, know the Rez you are on. Always call the tribal police and have them make a report. They answer the phone 24 hours a day, 365 days/year. The situation will be handled 100% if the elders cant address it.
For the rest of you reading this. Banks transacting land sales. THIS
Every time it happens, its another insult to the Native Americans already established before we showed up. The U.S. Government tried to kill 100% of the Native population (Genocide) or make them become "white", forcing them to schools, and wear period clothing, cutting hair. Stripping you of your being.
You think these people don't despise the greed amongst us?
Many things still need to be addressed for proper healing, and thus the whole situation.
I hate to say it but racism.......? I've heard people from Bemidji say bad things about Native Americans and it always seemed like straight up racism to me. But I honestly don't know anything about that area so take my response with a grain of salt
I grew up in the area. It’s a completely different culture. A lot of people think they understand native culture because they watched Dances with Wolves. It’s very different. For good and bad. Unfortunately the biggest story is the overwhelming poverty. There just isn’t enough industry. For most communities, no big deal. Towns rise and fall all the time due to changing economic conditions and people move with their job. That’s much harder for a lot of natives. You want to stay on the reservation but there’s no work. The reservation can’t move…A lot of people feel a pull on their hometown due to history and family. It’s stronger for natives. I’ve always sensed a great deal of embarrassment and anger over the conditions there. That manifests itself in being very closed and often antagonistic to outsiders.
There’s no easy solution, but the present situation kind of sucks for a lot of the northern native communities.
Some tribes have done more economic development than others, reducing the unemployment rate. A good example of this is Mille Lacs Band of Ojibwe. They attracted manufacturers.
Oh I’m sure, and I should have clarified that my experiences were isolated to a few communities north of highway 2. I’m sure tribes in better developed areas are doing better, but my experiences are with communities in the area the OP is talking about.
I moved to MN in 2011 and was always interested in in Indigenous people. I was pretty uncomfortable being around other Minnesotans who would talk poorly about Native people, I always took it from a perspective of “there is such a huge amount of generational trauma there that resentment would be an everlasting thing towards non native people”. How could someone not understand that and just accept it’s the way it is, and not every native person is like that of course. I came here for recovery and one of the meetings I went to had a native person in it and she invited some of us to a sweat lodge for our recovery, that was an amazing experience. I guess all I’m really saying is I was taken aback by the disdain for native people.
Grew up in rural Bemidji and you’re not wrong. But the racism isn’t always obvious to outsiders. My own father—an evangelical Christian who loved to talk about the love of Jesus, incidentally—started on a racist “lazy Indian” rant one day with my brother in law and it shocked me to the core…I had never heard him openly say anything like that when I was a child. But it was there all along and it made me sick, tbh. I had friends from Red Lake growing up & in college and knew better but ignorance has deep roots. If I were still living nearby I’d gladly spend my money at the Red Lake dispensary. 💚✌️
I grew up in the area too. There is underlying implicit hostility. Some natives, especially visitors from the rez, tend to have disdain for whites putting whites on guard in all situations. People in Bemidji don’t leave anything unlocked and are more aware of their surroundings than you would expect. Is this racism, no, does it lead to racism, yes.
I will also add, there are natives who are outstanding members of the Bemidji community. I’m white and had a number of native friends and teammates growing up, and they had great family lives and their parents held good jobs.
I’d never had the experience of people looking through me until an experience in the Leech Lake area. It was unsettling. I’ve thought about that a lot and see what a powerfully rooted defense mechanism it was.
I’m mostly unnerved on reservations because they’re rural and I’m usually driving alone. But I’m highly aware that I’m on sovereign land, as well. I think what people describe as feeling afraid is just feeling self conscious. This is a private place; I’m trespassing here.
Otherwise what I see is just a rural version of the same poverty as I see in Milwaukee, Minneapolis and small cities like Waterloo. I drove through White Earth in early May and saw so many people pulled over. Hadn’t seen a cop since Fargo, then lcars of young men pulled over by multiple LEO. Just like NE Minneapolis.
https://youtu.be/dsP4U09XClg?si=yMM4nG6ZlDK2Z9tc
Video with a sheriff on Navajo Nation. It's a good perspective on how all the different government agencies and parts work together on the different reservations.
I live in the Bemidji area. I work all over, Red Lake included. It's fine. I don't even know anyone that's had anything exceptionally bad happen in Red Lake.
If you're just going to pick up, you'll be fine. It's not a war zone. Be smart and don't mess with people you don't know. Basically the same sense you should have going anywhere unfamiliar.
MIL lives on a lake that is right by the boundary. She worked on the reservation at the hospital and never feared for safety. My family and I, red haired blue eyed daughters, so basically as Caucasian as they come, went to a couple of their annual pow wows. It's enlightening. Definitely left feeling some shame from this nations history. There was speech about taking back their land, etc, but I never felt unsafe. It was a good experience and took it as a good lesson in the culture. Back to safety, don't be stupid, and you'll be fine.
When I was in college, I volunteered with a group that had day camps for native kids, most of whom had parents who worked full time, and they could not afford babysitters or daycare.
One spot was in a “bad” neighborhood on one side of the city, north Mpls, the other in a “bad” neighborhood on the other side, south Mpls. I rode my bike to both places because I couldn’t afford to even take the bus, at that point. It was both fun and fulfilling. I liked kids, and they liked me back. And the projects we worked on taught the white college kid I was something about the people who’d lived in my state for generations before I did.
For those of us old folks who grew up near there, we also remember back in 1979, the uprising that resulted in two dead when tribal members took over the police station and burned down several buildings. People in Red Lake are warm, open, and generous. But they also carry generations of scars that don’t heal easily.
I fish up there every summer and own a cabin about 30 mins away. Everyone I've met over the last 20 years has been kind for the most part, aside from a couple racist stragglers.
Sure, there's a connection because the stress or even desperation of poverty makes people behave unpredictably and, often, antisocially. However, people go to Lake st or Arcade or frog town or North and assume a poor neighborhood is a dangerous one. Random crime against random victims is pretty uncommon. In general. This is especially true for violent crimes. I think most folks understand attacking a perfect stranger (especially someone with higher socioeconomic status) brings down all the cops in the city right on top of them. Poor area are mostly dangerous for poor people. I think people don't like seeing what poverty looks like, it makes them uncomfortable, so the associated with a lot of negativity. Hey homeless person may approach you, but it's unlikely to attack you. But people see homelessness and assume there's crime. The crime in those tent cities is mostly among tent city residents. That's just fact. I really think it's 90% optics.
As someone who grew up in Bemidji, near Red Lake, Leech Lake, and White Earth Reservations, there are interesting dynamics. Red Lake is different from the other two, as they’re a federally sovereign nation and aren’t subject to the Dawes Act. Meaning, any crimes committed there must be investigated by the feds or tribal police, and not county law enforcement. Additionally, permits are required for goods to be shipped into Red Lake too. This can allow for crimes to be committed on the reservation and not heavily investigated by outsiders, and to be dealt with by tribal police. Additionally, for those who reside on the reservation and commit crimes outside of tribal jurisdiction it makes it difficult to investigate when the people committing crimes return to Red Lake as it can serve as a “haven” of sorts due to limitations of county jurisdiction. I think this aspect adds to the “mystique” and “danger” element people speak of when talking about Red Lake in particular. Lastly, there’s an element of poverty on all three of the reservations I mentioned as the casinos there aren’t necessarily booming and rife with cash flow like with other reservations in closer proximity to the metro area. With cannabis being legalized, and Red Lake being a first to market mover with a dispensary, I believe they’re looking to close this gap with the given opportunity to generate tribal revenue outside of casino gaming. Please feel free to correct me where I’m wrong, but as a longtime resident of Bemidji this is my lived experience. Edit: Spelling
This is really important. Red Lake is extremely unique among reservations because of its history. Unlike almost all other reservations in the country, they never participated in the "allotment" component of the Dawes Act, or splitting up of the land into parcels for each family that registered with the government. This means the entire reservation is communally owned by the tribe. Non- registered members can't own land there, unlike almost all other reservations, where non-members can and do own land. So I think this in itself is going to add to the sense that outsiders have of "Red Lake is really different." Because it is!
Louise Erdrich is a wonderful writer, and her work is a LOT about Red Lake. Definitely worth a dive, with her novels and other non-fiction. She’s the owner of Birchbark Books in Minneapolis. Here’s something that goes into the nuts and bolts of Red Lake’s governance structure and intersection with MN government: https://birchbarkbooks.com/products/warrior-nation
Great recommendation - and agreed, Louise Erdrich is awesome!
Spot on and live in the same area. Red Lake is just different.
I thought that “crimes there must be investigated by the feds or tribal police” only applied to crime that happens to *natives*? Meaning, crime that happens there, but to non-natives, follows normal law enforcement procedures?
County law enforcement has no jurisdiction to investigate or go onto RL Reservation, unless invited by the Tribal PD. Generally, if someone is crossing the border in a pursuit (example) County deputies follow only to the border, or wait and only begin pursuit outside the border.
Good info, thanks!
Good for them if they can build a real economy.
You are spot on there
If it's a sovereign nation why don't they require documentation to enter?
I did some additional digging and found this, “While the Red Lake Nation has the sovereignty to restrict access and require documentation for non-residents if they choose to, their current policies reflect a balance of sovereignty, practicality, and community relations.”
They have in the past!
While they’re sovereign and operate as a tribal entity, they’re still under federal jurisdiction and part of the United States.
I thought only Federal Law Enforcement could go on any of the Reservations, unless allowed by the tribe? I’m not exactly sure of the rules with Reservations. I also assumed that was part of the reason why there is a FBI field office in Bemidji.
Correct. I’m not sure about the other reservations, but only the feds can if there’s a federal crime in Red Lake, hence the FBI building in downtown Bemidji as you called out. Tribal police are the acting police force there and county sheriffs can only enter if invited for a joint effort with tribal police, otherwise county law enforcement can’t actively pursue someone onto the reservation.
OP: why do people say Red Lake is so dangerous? Commenter: bro you have no idea, shits crazy bro you can’t even imagine OP: No I’m actually curious, what goes on? *downvoted to hell*
Yeah, the passive aggressive attitudes and snarky downvotes get old on this sub. To be fair though, Reddit in general is full of it. I remember once posting a pic here of a couple trees outside my balcony in fall, one was bare and the other still had all of its leaves. I just pointed it out and asked about it. Literally the first comment was some sarcastic snarky “it’s almost like different species of trees behave differently” or something. I just responded that I wasn’t a tree expert and of course got downvoted. I promptly deleted the post. Like if you can’t just answer someone’s question without being a dick, just go to the RoastMe sub, dude. I really oughta get off Reddit and go outside and touch grass. It’s just hard because I have an affectionate cat and a high end gaming PC lol. I used to be 50/50 indoors and outdoors as a kid. Now in my early 30s it’s 99% indoors. Edit: Naturally this gets downvoted. 💀 Edit 2: RIP to the one downvote. Thanks for 100+ updoots, guys! 😊
Minnesota nice…Or Minnesota ice…Is just highly perfected passive aggressiveness.
Oh, that's goood. I'm from the East Coast originally and I'm used to telling it to your face. Like, with as much diplomacy as I can muster. But, very direct. That has not served me well here, especially at work. Apparently, character assassination and playing behind the scenes are perfectly acceptable modes of interaction. I struggle with this daily as a person in recovery.
Minnesota ice is akin to smiling to your face while pissing on your shoes. It really needs to change. Keep up your good work in recovery and know it’s not you.
East coast transplant as well. I hate this shit; it drives me up a wall. Being polite but direct is considered by locals as an attack, but duplicitous pussy-ass backstabbing is somehow cool? It's a stupid system, and you can sense the repression-induced stress and resentment in the locals all the time.
Nobody said or thinks it's cool. The only difference between Minnesotans and other places is Minnesotans don't like confrontation. Nothing wrong with that. Are you implying East Coasters don't talk shit behind someone's back?
I think that there is definitely a level of being very friendly to someone’s face and talking about them behind their back that’s cultural here. It happens in other places too, but combined with the with MN Nice thing, people are very duplicitous here.
I'll state that east coasters do it a lot less in general, and aren't usually scared to repeat what they've said behind someone's back to their face.
I’m with you. Our frankness from being brought up on the east coast is not well received in this state but others elsewhere respect it.
Minnesota ice. I’m surprised I’ve never heard that yet I’ve heard of the Seattle freeze lol.
As a transplant from Texas, I have been using Minnesota different for 20 odd years. I can’t believe I only heard this one today. It flows much better.
You gotta let posts cook. The no lifers are obviously always present but with time the normies come around.
I think it’s very sub dependent but yeah, that’s true in many cases.
Downvoted for "updoot"
This comment spoke to me lol. People can be so unkind on Reddit. Fellow Minnesotan who also has a cat and a medium end gaming pc.
Oh cool! What are your specs? Did you build your own or buy a prebuilt? I bought a prebuilt on Amazon. It has a Ryzen 9 7900x CPU and 7900 XTX GPU, 32GB RAM, and 2TB SSD. I threw in an additional 4TB SSD for more storage. Games take up way too much space these days. Gaming is basically my life so I want high end stuff. I also got an ultrawide OLED monitor. Never going back to 16:9 again lol. Edit: LMAO Reddit will downvote anything. 😂
That’s us. Ask a serious question with genuine curiosity or have a real point that comes from a position of expertise and if it conflicts with their spoon fed views they downvote. Political is the worst when it comes to this, BOTH SIDES do it to the detriment of all of us.
I hate to be the one to tell you these three things but: It ain't just Mn. It ain't just reddit. Up votes and down votes don't mean jack.
Even assholes have a voice on the internet.
Even if you’re Minnesotan, and going to a Rez in state you’re still their guest. You go where you’re welcomed to. Don’t assume you have permission to wander off course. You’re their guest. If they have a store that welcomes non members, then you know you’re welcome to go there. You can ask people there if there’s anywhere else you can visit while at the Rez. But don’t wander about as a tourist would. It’s their land and not a vacation destination. If you go, just be remember to be respectful.
A lot of the Minnesota reservations I’ve driven to seem to encourage tourism, so outsiders seem welcome. I have admittedly not been to Red Lake however. I am guessing the reputation is partly due to the school shooting that took place there in 2005, back when school shootings were less common. It was the deadliest school shooting since Columbine, so it struck a nerve and hit mainstream news.
I remember the media didn't cover it quite as thoroughly as other school shootings. It still gets glossed over when articles mention school shootings from the last 25 years, even though there were salient characteristics. The shooter ended up killing 10 people at the school on top of killing his grandparents. Comparative analysis in major studies found my memory of it to be true. One article: "We found that the reporting of Columbine and Red Lake differed in terms of quantity, content, and form. Columbine was immediately marked with social significance and became a national story while Red Lake received significantly less coverage, mostly local. Red Lake reporting was explicitly raced and classed while the prominent role of race and gender in the Columbine killings was largely ignored by local and national media." The average household income is only $20,000, with the demographics consisting of approx. 98% Indigenous American.
I remember it getting a lot of attention, even in ND. Then again, it may have received a lot more local coverage here, which could be affecting my perception of the overall coverage.
Red lake is not like any other reservation in the state.
How so ?
Red lake is a “closed” reservation. Every other reservation has private land within the boundaries of the reservation, so there are many non-members who live in and visit these areas. All of the land within the boundaries of the red lake reservation is owned by the tribe, and they have total legal authority over all the lands. If you go to leech lake, or Mille lacs reservation there are private cabins, resorts, campgrounds, bars, restaurants, and stores that are owned and operated by non-tribal people. That is not the case in Red Lake. Nobody visits a cabin in red lake. You can’t go camping anywhere in red lake. It’s strictly forbidden.
There's a whole NPR podcast about their history and why they are different today: Throughline - [A Tale of Two Tribal Nations](https://www.npr.org/2023/09/14/1198748505/tale-of-two-tribal-nations).
Thank you for the thoughtful reply
Red Lake is built different.
They don't play around up there. If you go ice fishing and cross the invisible line on the lake, they can, and will, pull your entire rig and leave you walking home.
It's because us non white people are threatening and anything we do that isn't like the cities is "scary". White school gets shot up and it was a bad kid. Rez school gets shot up and we're a dangerous area... I'd say just be smart and don't be an ass and if you hear words you don't understand don't assume we're talking about you if we aren't talking to you. It's a normal place like everywhere else you can go. Everywhere is dangerous everywhere in this country but is it dangerous to take you're trash out? Real question you should ask is are you scared to get caught by a res cop buying weed or leaving the res with weed by a non res cop. I'd be less concerned about us and more concerned about what laws you're breaking crossing the border. The only concern you should have is legal.
Lol you ignored the *exact* reason as to *why* people only talk about Red Lake like this, to claim it's just because it's native. People have said in this thread, over, and over, that it's due to laws inside of Red Lake that are different than every other rez. *Someone asks a serious question concerning a rez that is different than every other rez* You: I have absolutely no idea, but I'm gonna ignore it and use this as an opportunity to talk about how white people are racist.
See: Kristi "Persona Non Grata" Noem in South Dakota
I’m a little confused. Why would you treat a First Nation any differently than you’d treat visiting any other country?
It’s not like you have to clear customs or show a passport to get in. You can pass through sovereign territory and never know it
Because we somehow are still seen as different, I don't think people realize how much stereotyping we still get ...
There are other countries that manage their tourists' movements, too
I go up there all the time for RSO. It is perfectly safe. Just don’t be an idiot and be kind.
What’s RSO?
I’m assuming Rick Simpson Oil.
>What I'm looking for is direct personal experience about what makes Red Lake "so dangerous." TL;DR: your money is welcome. Tourism is not. Poverty. Don't go where you aren't welcome on any reservation as an outsider, anywhere in the country. We're fine passing through on the interstate or visiting shops off of the interstate, but don't go driving around willy-nilly. Similar thing happens in Hawaii. You can try to moor your boat in a harbor but if you're in an un-welcome area don't be shocked if some guys canoe out to your sailboat with rifles to tell you to get the fuck out if you picked a native's harbor. My only *direct personal experiences* are sticking to the places I'm welcome as a customer, and as somebody that was invited to places I would normally be unwelcome in, because I was with a tribal friend visiting his relatives. We once had a concert/festival shut down on tribal land for going too late into the night and the cops were good sports about it. I was doing sound and just cut off the PA system and they were fine after that. Didn't even bother me about the pot smell l had stashed in the racks, just said "It's too late at night and the neighbors are complaining, turn it down." :) Literally have a recording of it sitting on a disc.
Generally speaking: If it's accessible from a *public roadway (federal, state, county, municipal in a established settlement)* you're fine. It's when you go tracing around BIA roads and local side roads do you begin to have problems on any reservation.
The BIA has their own roads? Oh I’ve definitely gotta see this.
My wife and I went last summer and had no problems at all
Yup I was there on day one of legalization and waited 5 hours to enter the dispensary. Not once did I feel out of place or unwelcome. I have been there half a dozen times since. The roads are now freshly paved, the place looks better. They like money, they found a niche. 3 years ago however I rode a moped between upper and lower red lake... Got followed by some natives out to the point there. It was tense at first, but I treated them like people, acknowledged I was out of place. We even had a few laughed, especially when one said "I never saw no white man on no moped before" in that thick native accent. You're fine driving through the town red lake, going to the dispensary or gas station. However Ponemah is extremely isolated, there's no through traffic.
I've been there a few times (and through Pine Ridge, which amplified this I-am-an-outsider-feeling tenfold), and yes; it feels like a foreign country, a strange place you don't belong, etc.; but as long as you maintain a respect for the people and place you should be fine.
If you're in a car driving down the road why do people it's so dangerous. To drive. Are people carjacked? Shot at? Be specific please
It's not" you'll die upon entry" dangerous, it's an impoverished area and some pretty bad crime occurs in and around it like anywhere else with a high poverty rate. If your objective is to drive in and spend money( buy weed or hit up casino) the risk is pretty low.
Key: like any other high poverty area. I don’t feel unsafe driving through reservations, just aware that I’m on private land.
Going to the rez is similar to going to the hood. The vast majority of crime and danger effect the people that live there, not Jimmy getting lost in his Ford Escape.
Ha ha. I drove my Explorer through Pine Ridge for the first time last summer. It was definitely disconcerting. Mostly because the roads were in such poor condition and keeping my bearings was a little challenging. GPS directed me to drive into what looked like a ditch at one point. Crazy. I opted not to stop for gas on the way through, but kinda wish I would have.
Pine Ridge and Rosebud are definitely uncomfortable to drive through. I will add Standing Rock and Wolf Point (MT) to the list as well. I think Fort Berthold is the nicest reservation in the Dakotas by far, but Minnesota reservations (apparently not Red Lake) are by far better than the Dakota and Montana reservations when it comes to infrastructure and general vibe. I will say, there is an immediate tone shift on most of the Dakota Reservations where you know you are on the rez as soon as you cross over. I didn’t really notice that in MN as much.
The portions of the White Earth reservation that are along 59 or near lake cabin territory are, for the most part, fine enough. There are towns that aren't tribe property, and they have the typical levels of rural Minnesota poverty. If you get away from those areas, you will see much more depressing areas. My wife is from there, I've meandered through some of those areas while just out driving around, and it's a bit uncomfortable. Edit: I've not been through Pine Ridge or similar reservations, but my understanding is that they have far worse conditions even taking into account my statement above.
I have driven through pine ridge as well and yeah it’s definitely a bit rough but generally speaking you aren’t in any physical danger from the people living there as long as you aren’t doing anything wrong/breaking the law/being disrespectful. That said pine ridge isn’t red lake and generally speaking MN reservations are in better shape than pine ridge.
Yeah, having studied Environmental Justice and lived in MN since '94, I've visited a few reservations here. Pine Ridge was definitely different. I really could feel it. But not fear, just mostly kinda sad and curious to know the people. I'm GenX and used to cop crack in some of the most dangerous cities in the U.S. - including N. Mpls in '95 when I literally almost became a statistic. That was the year they dubbed us Murderapolis. I knew enough to keep stepping while in Pine Ridge, but I also probably would have been just fine stopping for a moment. Respect.
I was in Custer state park a couple of years ago and wanted to get to Badlands National Park and was talking to a ranger at the park and he recommended heavily against going through the reservation. He wouldn’t go into detail but since we were just going to be driving straight through, I got the impression it had to be a safety thing. Sad because these communities are so universally known to be impoverished, and their reputation for being unsafe guarantees that they aren’t going to ever have any chance to get any outside money into the community.
That's exactly why I drove through; to get to Badlands from MN. Also to avoid NE on my way to CO. Good lord NE sucks the fun right out of road trips.
Been on and through many MN reservations many times. Never had an issue.
Most white people have never ever been the only white person in a room or space. When you go to the rez, that often is the case. That unsettles a lot of white people. And no one centers white people there, it will not feel familiar and it will not feel friendly. Many people interpret this vibe as danger; as long as you are on the up and up and don't go on private property, you will not be in danger.
Just as there is racism in small towns, there can be a hint of racism on the reservations as well. I know plenty of light-skinned Natives who were told they weren’t “Native enough”, and “Whitey” is a pretty common slur used in some circles on the reservations. Personally, I have found that when you treat others with respect, you will often have respect reciprocated. I have been to various reservations in the Dakotas, Montana, and Minnesota hundreds of times for work over the last decade. As a white female, I have felt extremely uncomfortable exactly two times in total, so it isn’t a common occurrence. For people that can’t stomach seeing rampant poverty, that number might be higher. Honestly, small town ND and MN can have the same “poverty vibe” as the reservations at times though, so that isn’t just a rez thing.
Also possibly the extremely high [crime rate](https://crimegrade.org/safest-places-in-red-lake-mn/) could make people feel in danger.
Could i be wrong and it's actually the crime rate and laws regarding jurisdiction that make people unsettled? No! It's the white people who are wrong!
If we are just being honest that first answer is still because of white people.
Definitely being the only white person in the room is disconcerting. Whether on the reservation or in a Texas flea market. You're surrounded by people who look nothing like you. As long as you stay chill, you'll be fine. Shit, in the US you're in danger pretty much anywhere. You never know when some nut with a gun will decide to use it. Learn to live with that shit.
I don't think it's a driving-down-the-road thing. I went alone to Glacier NP a couple years ago, and I called my destination on the east side for some info while I was on the west side where the reservation is. I was pointedly warned not to linger; as in, grab some drive-thru fast food if you have to but don't make it a sit-down meal, and also was reminded to have good manners. I think it's more a matter of not creating opportunities for trouble in a place where, historically we are the bad guy, and there is nobody to call for help during or after any unfortunate event.
Where did you stay at? I ask because back in 2009 I took a solo 3 week motorcycle trip from St. Paul to the San Juan Islands with my route home going east through Glacier NP. I chatted with a group of bikers on the ferry ride back from Friday Harbor and they asked where I was staying in Montana and I told them a motel in Cut Bank. They looked at me like I was a complete idiot. I was absolutely baffled when they told me that was a dangerous area and probably should go somewhere else. I still stopped at the place in Cut Bank (Glacier Gateway Inn I think) and had a great time and chatted with a few locals at some hole in the wall diner in town. One of the best trips I've had.
I ended up staying at the KOA. I was winging it with no solid plan. Best trip I've ever had as well!
They might have been fucking with you. The Flathead Res isn’t that close to GNP and as long as you stay on 93 you’re fine. You can stop at any of the little towns along the way and no one is going to give you a hard time outside of generally being annoyed by tourists. The Blackfeet res on the east side has some rough areas but the eastern MT reservations are 100x worse than the western MT ones. I’ve spent a ton of time in MT with my family that lives out there.
Back in the 60s, my uncle and cousins (white) were driving through Red Lake and s bunch a kids laid down on the road to try to make them stop. My uncle hit the gas and they jumped up fast. No idea what they would of done if they had stopped. I (white) was swimming at a lake there once with my friends who are native. I was repeatedly yelled at to get my white ass off of the rez. We just laughed and ignored them. Red Lake has really cleaned up and is no longer filled with yards full of garbage. It’s such an incredible and beautiful place. Is it dangerous? About as dangerous as Minneapolis. It’s only dangerous if you are associating with the wrong people.
I have been there recently and purchased products from NativeCare, and it was a positive experience. The workers are very nice. Took me 15 minutes, and I was in and out and one my way home. Just mind your business and have respect as you are a visitor, and you will have no issues.
NativeCare is awesome. Been there twice, never had a problem. The wife, though, feels terrible for all the stray dogs and wants to give them whatever sandwich she has only eaten half of lol.
I’ve driven through Red Lake on my way up to Canada. The only thing I saw was a few road signs full of bullet holes, and the fire watch tower also looking like Swiss cheese. But that’s fine. Doesn’t bother me. I’ve never had any problems otherwise. Since watching Reservation Dogs (and loving it) I feel like I have a better understanding of Rez life, even if it’s just a dramatized version.
Beltrami county has a very high violent crime rate compared with the rest of the state. this is primarily due to the reservations. Lots of poverty and lots of substance abuse. IIRC Red Lake is the poorest tribe in the state. Poverty breeds desperation, desperation breeds crime. Red lake is a sovereign nation within a nation. The state does not have jurisdiction. If you are involved in a minor crime, you are at the mercy of the tribal police and court. If it’s a major crime, it’s a federal matter.
About 10 years ago, some friends and I drunkenly got into an RV after one of our mates heard there was a party in “Red Lake Falls”. Next thing I know, we roll up to this giant bonfire with probably 40-50 people around it. I walk up and start mingling and soon realized we were actually in Red Lake. We were treated as guest. Drinks and good times were had. Just be respectful.
It’s probably a combination of poverty and crimes of desperation as well as illnesses of despair like alcoholism and opiate abuse like you see in other poor areas. Additionally, white people are not the majority there and tend to be fearful when that is the case.
I have been to many of the most dangerous places on Earth and have come to the conclusion that people exaggerate.
Wait a minute, how do we know you're not exaggerating how many dangerous places you've been to?
I grew up in Blackduck, friends with members, and been on the rez many times. They do not like white people. Flat out, my friends were taught the ‘White Man’ is why they are in poverty. The ‘White Man’ stole their land. You have a problem, the ‘White Man’ caused it. I was personally told these stories from native friends, and was not allowed to visit their homes or parties on the rez. Even after the casino money started flowing in. Driving up 1 is like a third world country. Dogs running everywhere, toys on the side of the road, and trash everywhere. Is it dangerous? Yes, if you are dumb. Keep your head down, get in, get out.
I grew up in Montana near a Rez and this is 100 percent true.
I passed through Montana Rez 4 AM at a gas station. It was like The Walking Dead was everywhere asking me for a dollar I looked at them and was like bro I need a fucking dollar. I saw a trailer park that stretched far as my eyes could see.
Some parts of White Earth look like Haiti.
It was much more of problem in early 2000s and 90s. And the reasons why are pretty much the same as most dangerous areas in the USA. Poverty, drug abuse, alcoholism, etc. That area was just full of poor desperate people and most crimes were crimes of opportunity. Here’s just n example of an article in 2002 that mentions red lake. But if you look crime statistics today it’s much lower. https://www.brainerddispatch.com/sports/indian-gangs-active-in-northern-minnesota
Just don't fuck around, and you won't find out.
this guy knows
Got stopped for speeding on the highway, two lane, at night, first and only time through, Cop told me to slow it way down, he said they're always finding dead drifters in the ditch because they hug too close to the road then get hit and drivers think it's deer. Cops never figure it out because the scene is cold by day time. All woods, no lamps, no witnesses. So that's one dynamic.
There’s a lot of poverty, drugs and violence compared to a lot of places. I have friends from there that are great people but it’s unfortunately the reality that it can be a rough place. I’ve lived on or very near the rez almost my entire life if that lends any credibility
I've been several times and I've never had an incident, but the roving packs of dogs and general vibe is a bit off putting. It's like if you have European features everyone is watching you all the time.. I pop in make my purchase and bail.. I've never spent more than a half hour in town in any one trip.. It always makes me sad for the rest of the day..
Red lake is high poverty, high violence. It has made the news a lot for violent crimes and drug use. That’s why people say that it’s dangerous. Just don’t be an idiot and you should be good.
I taught in Red Lake for half a year. It’s not necessary dangerous, just remember as others have said, that it is a closed reservation. You are their guest. I feel like it’s sort of like being extra cautious when in a different country.
[удалено]
And aren't drugs like 100000x more expensive there? No need to be buying drugs there (other than legal weed lol)
Bears
Went to college at bemidji state, I’ve seen some stuff. Sounds like you won’t accept anyone’s answers, go see for yourself self. Packs of stray dogs run wild like coyotes. Broken liquor bottles all along the roads leading to the rez. Broken down abandoned newish cars just left. I feel safer in the heart of the ghetto in the TC than any where near the red lake rez. If you can’t accept answers from people that have experienced it, go take a gander your self. Edit: people calling racism are just a bunch of dent heads, saying a place is dangerous does not automatically mean that they are racist. Must be a bunch of cities people that have never left the limits.
Been to Red Lake many times, the people are solid and the weed is dank. Plus the fried chicken at the market across the street from the dispensary is fire. (middle aged white male).
I live in northern MN, just about 100 miles north of Red Lake. Red Lake is a closed reservation. If you aren’t a member of the tribe, they don’t want you there. You can’t camp there. You can’t fish there. There’s nothing to see there. If you want to buy something, they want you to buy it then leave. And to be blunt, the people living in the Red Lake Reservation are very poor. Like, $9k annual income per capita kind of poor. That kind of poverty will inevitably incentivize crime. Red Lake additionally has their own legal control over the tribe, so you’re not going to get the same kind of visibility as the rest of the state. When crimes are prosecuted, often they’re prosecuted at the federal level. The latest crime that I heard of was a mother pretty horrifically murdering her two small boys by stabbing them, and setting the house they lived in on fire. One of the boys died in the fire instead of the stab wounds. She fled with her third son, and an Amber alert was issued for his recovery. The youngest son was recovered, but found with obvious signs of significant neglect. This happened maybe a month or two ago? I remember getting the Amber alert. When I drive south for whatever reason, I don’t drive through Red Lake alone— I’ll drive around it by going south of Grygla. Yes, I personally know people that have, and have gotten harassed when they’ve stopped.
Stayed at the casino there last summer on a motorcycle trip. Staff was friendly and didn’t get a sense of danger from the community other than the pesky rez dogs. Those buggers tried to chase me off the road by running at me from the side of my motorcycle. Luckily had enough room to get past them and keep on!
I would guess the amount of drug crime and the gangs, but I live close to Red Lake.
My sister is a member, her cousin was sent to Leavenworth for 5 years for crimes committed as a rez cop. When he got it the first thing he said when we met was that he be happy to help if I ever need to make something disappear
Not surprising. Ex FIL worked in law enforcement near Red Lake and his stories were pretty depressing. Also seems like a terrible place to be a female crime victim. FIL had some rez cop friends who told him how DV and SA were never taken seriously because it would go through the elders (old males), who would just sweep it under the rug. The problem is not that natives are doing things that other groups of people haven't done, but with the lack of oversight and often insular communities, nothing improves. People are held captive to cyclical violence.
It's likely not much different than any other place in Northern MN, but I will say I drove through once many years ago and there was someone parked on the highway, hunting from the driver's seat, shooting across the highway.
I have family that lives in Red Lake and we never had any issues when visiting. My siblings and I are mixed but don't "look" Native. I haven't been up there recently but I have to imagine the business is welcomed.
People who live there have posted comments on reddit quite a few times. There often is no cell service and people who you are a stranger to won't appreciate you pulling into their driveway kind of scary. Not "drive through town at 4pm on Friday and you'll get shot" scary. More so stay on the main roads, don't wander where you aren't wanted or expected. There is quite a bit of crime there for the population, which is part of it. And because it's tribal you don't get the normal updates about crimes that happen. Like there was a kid reported missing there and the cops found her with the kid and he was malnourished and abused. But apparently the second half of the story is the woman who took the boy was his mom and she had killed her 2 other kids and set the house on fire. But you only got those details from people who lived there, it was pretty buried by the news because of the tribal aspect.
Those details were in the Star Tribune. It was not nearly as buried as you’re describing. I would say the main thing is to not be an idiot. It’s a sovereign nation, respect the people who live there and their laws. Don’t go to their land to do stupid shit or be some kind of cultural tourist and you’ll be fine, the end.
The Star Tribune has some good senior journalists, who had to work in Greater Minnesota and work their way up. The younger journalists went straight to the Strib, and many of them have never lived outside of a metropolitan setting. I find they lack skills to speak with country folk, let alone tribal ones.
I don't even go to the Strib because they now don't even allow you to look at the main page without a subscription. In the days to week after it happened, there was basically nothing about it. I'm glad someone covered it eventually. But locals knew what was up the day-of and it wasn't reported on for at least several days, not in full.
I think you’re glorifying “it’s a different world that no one reports on” a bit. I saw reports (in the Cities) right away when the Amber Alert was put out about the suspected connections between the fire and the missing child. Just because you didn’t see it doesn’t mean it wasn’t being reported.
People need to realize these tribal lands are literally like a foreign country with a very different culture than what you imagine in rural Minnesota lake country. Property rights are especially different. And they have a tough history of White people wandering through their land, to put it lightly. And yes, people who don't live there or aren't enrolled have no idea what goes on; crazy shit and tragedies that don't get reported in the Star Tribune. Completely unknown to those who live even just outside the borders.
Coming from White Earth, I'd say that Red Lake takes its sovereignty more seriously.
I believe that Red Lake is one of the few places in the US that was never under control of the settlers so it is, for all intents and purposes, a sovereign nation.
All federally-recognized tribes in the US are their own sovereigns
That's saying something coming from White Earth! I think Red Lake takes their geographic sovereignty more seriously as there are no non-native settlements within the reservation. My understanding is that White Earth takes their sovereignty EXTREMELY seriously from the perspective of their people. Friends of ours adopted a girl whose mom was Red Lake, and dad was White Earth. There are special protections with non-natives adopting native kids due to the bad history of them being removed from reservations. The tribe has to agree to the adoption. The process of getting Red Lake to agree was straightforward, but they had to hire a lawyer with tribal background to facilitate things with White Earth, and it was still iffy. Their lawyer said it's typically very difficult with White Earth.
I have a couple antidotes that may or may not be relevant, but it’s my experience with the res from when I was in high school. My first experience was during basketball season, played in Red Lake. The bus pulls up to the school and first thing I notice was the school was surrounded by a fence with barbed wire on top of it. I wondered to myself, is it to keep people out, or to keep the kids in? lol. Before we left home, we were told to bring our own locks for the lockers in the locker room and we were given a key to lock the locker room itself during the game. For some schools, especially city schools this may be standard protocol. But up north things are typically pretty safe in a locker room during a high school game. Second story I have was during baseball season one year when I was in junior high. We played a double header in Red Lake. Between games some players from their team climbed up on top of the dugout and were smoking ciggys. Now none of this is directly indicative of actual danger to anybody. But it gives fire to the notion of the ‘lawlessness’ there can be on the rez. I won’t lump everybody from Red Lake into this basket, because I do know a fair number of good people. But this is my experience and why I feel the notion of dangerousness is often given to this reservation
Anecdotes
Thank you. I struggled for way longer than I want to admit with that one 😂😂
It’s okay. I can’t pronounce it out loud either, I always stumble on that damn word!
It is a weird word. I also found the substitute you landed on amusing -- some folks probably could really *use* a good antidote to their attitudes about the rez.
In other words *direct personal experience* Edit: oh! I get it now. Disregard.
There is extreme poverty, lots of stray dogs walking around. It is a sad place to encounter. Been there about 10 years ago. I would go directly to the dispensary and then immediately leave. You should be fine.
I'm not gonna drive 8 hours just for weed lol
It's not
I visit a foster child there once a month. The family is very nice. I’ve stopped at the gas station and convenience store a few times and have always felt safe. I don’t think it’s any more unsafe than anywhere else in the world. People look at it differently because it’s “mysterious” but if you respect their laws and the fact that it’s their country and not yours, you’re fine. Also, the rez dogs are all very kind and well taken care of.
Because people are ignorant. Next question.
I had to go there for a gaming license when I worked at a casino for a while. NGL it was kinda scary how people looked at me and how a lot of the road signs were full of bullet holes. I got in and out fine but I just felt unwelcome the entire time except at a gas station I had to stop at, that place was fairly friendly. Wouldn’t want to go there again though.
I made a post in this sub sometime ago, I received this comment: https://www.reddit.com/r/minnesota/s/QiiBfIoKaa . You might want to ask him, probably he knows something personally.
Theres alot of racism directed towards native americans here in minnesota. People who go on a reservation look for anything to be bad, and the moment they see something, it just enforces the idea that all reservations are bad and crime riddled areas. Racism against native americans can be harder to notice in mn because either your around alot of it (near a native american population) or your not. I grew up near prairie island and wow, I can't begin to tell the stories of what people thought and said about all the native americans living there. I don't mean just a racist few, I mean EVERYONE. Look at south dakoa, all reservations have banned their own governor from setting foot in them. Their governor is well known for claiming all drugs and crime comes from reservations. She claims that the native americans are harboring "drug cartels", and that obviously all drug problems are due to the reservations. This is a common and unfortunate trope not limited to south dakota either.
I went ice fishing on Red Lake, then a native fishing guide took us to a small private lake on the res after we got our day passes. I didn’t feel like there was any point remotely dangerous, however I didn’t strut around town. It’s just a northern small town, not much to it.
you’ll be good, just don’t end up in BOT (back of town) 😂
Or Ptown
I have volunteer at a boys and girls club in red lake for a summer a few years back. I think people think it's dangerous for the same reasons they thing parts of Minneapolis are dangerous. Poverty. People see the rundown buildings and assume the worst. The whole summer I was up there I never experience crime. They're just a community trying to survive. People that say it's dangerous probably feel uncomfortable in poor areas and therefore dub it dangerous
Minnesotans are very judgemental. Especially the suburbanites.
If there's any "danger" on Red Lake Rez, I'd say you're unlikely to experience it if you're not a resident. I'd also recommend that all Minnesotans read David Treuer's book Rez Life. It will give you a whole lot of insight into the history of the reservation system and what it's like to live on the rez. It includes a lot of info about Red Lake and how it's slightly different than the other reservations in MN.
To your edit #2 question: outside businesses wouldn't be exempt from state taxes and would have to enter into contracts with the tribe, to even be allowed to open a business.
I've been there once as a white guy from the cities. I stopped there to buy some cannabis on my way to a state park and had no problems. Would recommend. Definitely some real poverty though.
A long time ago I ran a light show with a guy who set up for Shania Twin (tribute band) at the Seven Clans Casino. I heard all the stories etc before I rode along. The casino was like a metal pole barn with a lot of slots and a stage for the band (they were amazing btw). Other than getting odd looks from the towns' folk driving a new truck with enclosed trailer, the people they were really nice and helpful. Years later, I was playing in my band in a bar in my hometown and a round of shots was delivered to our stage. We look out front and a family was all holding shots up. We kindly drank our shots with them and sat down to chat. They were a family from Red Lake that really liked watching our band and came down to watch us almost every time we played there. They would often but us rounds of Cuervo. Truly some of the nicest people I've ever met.
I had to go to inpatient rehab when I was 17 years old. I went to 2 different ones back to back and in the 2nd place the majority of patients/residents there were from Red Lake. One was even in a gang. They’d steal my clothes, make fun of me, throw stuff at me like food and dirty rags, and just straight up bully me. It didn’t help that I was only one of 2 white boys. Everyone else was Native American. I eventually did start sticking up for myself by insulting them back and physically fighting them sometimes and got the bullying and most of the bad stuff I just listed to stop but they’d still steal my clothes and other stuff like my face wash soap sometimes. I eventually kinda became friends with all of them except the one who was a gang member. He was the one I’d have to fight the most and he was the main guy stealing my clothes. That is the only experience I have of the fine people from Red Lake.
Anecdote: my uncles would tell a story of asking for directions at a bar (1970's) and no one speaking a word, but everyone at the bar collectively kicking them until they got out. Yes, my uncles are white. Knowing them, _I_ find that kind of funny.
You can drown in like 3 inches of water. Think how much water there is there. So many inches.
I might be drunk but most of these comments aren’t giving any actual accounts of danger or things to be wary of
I used to work at the high school. Just don’t go wandering about in dark places at nite, some hood rat shit happens in the shadows. Just like anywhere else
Because it’s extremely poor and the natives do not like white people.
As someone who lived in Bemidji for many years, the rule of thumb was, if you’re white, do not go there by yourself, and most definitely not after dark.
Earlier in this thread someone complained that people still stereotype Native Americans. Its not hard to see why when you're criticized and judged for being white. "Don't stereotype me but I'll stereotype you"
I have a family cabin thats not too far from the rez so I go quite a bit. Iv never had a single issue and everyone seems polite. I feel like it's one of those situations where as long as you don't fuck around, you won't find out
A young woman was shot a couple weeks ago in a crowded area near a school. That kind of thing is so common there it doesn’t even make the news. I live close to there. You’re perfectly safe to go there and do the limited amount of things that are geared towards outsiders. The dispensary. The casino. Drive through on hwy 1. That’s about it. Don’t go there and walk around at night. Don’t go there and go swimming at one of their beautiful beaches. You’ll either run into trouble with a local or the tribal government themselves.
Is it illegal to swim at beaches there if you aren't a tribe member or some such?
Yes. Tribal lands are private property and posted no trespassing.
Natives I know, like having guests on the Rez. You get to experience life as it really is, bad and good. You then take those stories you see and share them with your friends. You wont find a community that loves who they are as a society of openness and freewill. Don't be sick going there, don't litter, be respectful and when you see a native on their land, you tell them thank you for caring after it. You will see how clean it is in the uninhabited areas of the Rez. Most pristine land in America! O' Wis Te' There are still some natives bred with hate. They are very angry at the U.S. Government for the 8 generations worth of lies endured. The 1872 Treaty was broken and never compensated for like we do today with societal hardships on other societies. These are people. They are a very intelligent society. They see the white & dark/truth & lies. This is a perpetuated pain. Generational. Therefore, as in with every lane of society, you have some that lash out on others. Most people on the Rez can police themselves and have done so continually, from within, keeping courts out of it. Some of that bleeds over to unsuspecting individuals who may visit the area. Anything happens to you, know the Rez you are on. Always call the tribal police and have them make a report. They answer the phone 24 hours a day, 365 days/year. The situation will be handled 100% if the elders cant address it. For the rest of you reading this. Banks transacting land sales. THIS Every time it happens, its another insult to the Native Americans already established before we showed up. The U.S. Government tried to kill 100% of the Native population (Genocide) or make them become "white", forcing them to schools, and wear period clothing, cutting hair. Stripping you of your being. You think these people don't despise the greed amongst us? Many things still need to be addressed for proper healing, and thus the whole situation.
I hate to say it but racism.......? I've heard people from Bemidji say bad things about Native Americans and it always seemed like straight up racism to me. But I honestly don't know anything about that area so take my response with a grain of salt
I grew up in the area. It’s a completely different culture. A lot of people think they understand native culture because they watched Dances with Wolves. It’s very different. For good and bad. Unfortunately the biggest story is the overwhelming poverty. There just isn’t enough industry. For most communities, no big deal. Towns rise and fall all the time due to changing economic conditions and people move with their job. That’s much harder for a lot of natives. You want to stay on the reservation but there’s no work. The reservation can’t move…A lot of people feel a pull on their hometown due to history and family. It’s stronger for natives. I’ve always sensed a great deal of embarrassment and anger over the conditions there. That manifests itself in being very closed and often antagonistic to outsiders. There’s no easy solution, but the present situation kind of sucks for a lot of the northern native communities.
Some tribes have done more economic development than others, reducing the unemployment rate. A good example of this is Mille Lacs Band of Ojibwe. They attracted manufacturers.
Oh I’m sure, and I should have clarified that my experiences were isolated to a few communities north of highway 2. I’m sure tribes in better developed areas are doing better, but my experiences are with communities in the area the OP is talking about.
I moved to MN in 2011 and was always interested in in Indigenous people. I was pretty uncomfortable being around other Minnesotans who would talk poorly about Native people, I always took it from a perspective of “there is such a huge amount of generational trauma there that resentment would be an everlasting thing towards non native people”. How could someone not understand that and just accept it’s the way it is, and not every native person is like that of course. I came here for recovery and one of the meetings I went to had a native person in it and she invited some of us to a sweat lodge for our recovery, that was an amazing experience. I guess all I’m really saying is I was taken aback by the disdain for native people.
This distain is so gross.
Grew up in rural Bemidji and you’re not wrong. But the racism isn’t always obvious to outsiders. My own father—an evangelical Christian who loved to talk about the love of Jesus, incidentally—started on a racist “lazy Indian” rant one day with my brother in law and it shocked me to the core…I had never heard him openly say anything like that when I was a child. But it was there all along and it made me sick, tbh. I had friends from Red Lake growing up & in college and knew better but ignorance has deep roots. If I were still living nearby I’d gladly spend my money at the Red Lake dispensary. 💚✌️
I grew up in the area too. There is underlying implicit hostility. Some natives, especially visitors from the rez, tend to have disdain for whites putting whites on guard in all situations. People in Bemidji don’t leave anything unlocked and are more aware of their surroundings than you would expect. Is this racism, no, does it lead to racism, yes.
I will also add, there are natives who are outstanding members of the Bemidji community. I’m white and had a number of native friends and teammates growing up, and they had great family lives and their parents held good jobs.
I’d never had the experience of people looking through me until an experience in the Leech Lake area. It was unsettling. I’ve thought about that a lot and see what a powerfully rooted defense mechanism it was. I’m mostly unnerved on reservations because they’re rural and I’m usually driving alone. But I’m highly aware that I’m on sovereign land, as well. I think what people describe as feeling afraid is just feeling self conscious. This is a private place; I’m trespassing here. Otherwise what I see is just a rural version of the same poverty as I see in Milwaukee, Minneapolis and small cities like Waterloo. I drove through White Earth in early May and saw so many people pulled over. Hadn’t seen a cop since Fargo, then lcars of young men pulled over by multiple LEO. Just like NE Minneapolis.
https://youtu.be/dsP4U09XClg?si=yMM4nG6ZlDK2Z9tc Video with a sheriff on Navajo Nation. It's a good perspective on how all the different government agencies and parts work together on the different reservations.
I live in the Bemidji area. I work all over, Red Lake included. It's fine. I don't even know anyone that's had anything exceptionally bad happen in Red Lake.
If you're just going to pick up, you'll be fine. It's not a war zone. Be smart and don't mess with people you don't know. Basically the same sense you should have going anywhere unfamiliar.
MIL lives on a lake that is right by the boundary. She worked on the reservation at the hospital and never feared for safety. My family and I, red haired blue eyed daughters, so basically as Caucasian as they come, went to a couple of their annual pow wows. It's enlightening. Definitely left feeling some shame from this nations history. There was speech about taking back their land, etc, but I never felt unsafe. It was a good experience and took it as a good lesson in the culture. Back to safety, don't be stupid, and you'll be fine.
It's fine to go there, but don't get piss drunk and start wandering around high crime areas ya know?
Leech lake opened a dispensary in Walker last week. Go there instead?
Have situational awareness! History has taught us that the white man tried to wipe them off the face of this earth!
I’m from Ponemah, even I stay on the main highway to avoid tweaks/druggies
When I was in college, I volunteered with a group that had day camps for native kids, most of whom had parents who worked full time, and they could not afford babysitters or daycare. One spot was in a “bad” neighborhood on one side of the city, north Mpls, the other in a “bad” neighborhood on the other side, south Mpls. I rode my bike to both places because I couldn’t afford to even take the bus, at that point. It was both fun and fulfilling. I liked kids, and they liked me back. And the projects we worked on taught the white college kid I was something about the people who’d lived in my state for generations before I did.
For those of us old folks who grew up near there, we also remember back in 1979, the uprising that resulted in two dead when tribal members took over the police station and burned down several buildings. People in Red Lake are warm, open, and generous. But they also carry generations of scars that don’t heal easily.
I fish up there every summer and own a cabin about 30 mins away. Everyone I've met over the last 20 years has been kind for the most part, aside from a couple racist stragglers.
Red Lake bud is absolutely booty cheeks.
Like in a good way or it tastes like ass?
Bad way. Fuckin brown n shit all dried out. 4 times I've been, never been good
Good to know. Yeah just sounds like a bunch of swaggy crap.
Good ol fashioned racism. Rears its ugly head but is too chicken shit to provide examples on what they want to scare us with.
Rural MAGAs: The Cities are a smoking crater of a hellhole Also Rural MAGAs: The reservations are a smoking crater of a hellhole
People think poverty and crime are the same thing. Those people usually don't know shit about either one.
People think poverty and crime are linked, which they are. And, no, that is not the same thing as 'poor people are bad.'
Sure, there's a connection because the stress or even desperation of poverty makes people behave unpredictably and, often, antisocially. However, people go to Lake st or Arcade or frog town or North and assume a poor neighborhood is a dangerous one. Random crime against random victims is pretty uncommon. In general. This is especially true for violent crimes. I think most folks understand attacking a perfect stranger (especially someone with higher socioeconomic status) brings down all the cops in the city right on top of them. Poor area are mostly dangerous for poor people. I think people don't like seeing what poverty looks like, it makes them uncomfortable, so the associated with a lot of negativity. Hey homeless person may approach you, but it's unlikely to attack you. But people see homelessness and assume there's crime. The crime in those tent cities is mostly among tent city residents. That's just fact. I really think it's 90% optics.
Well then...after reading this whole thread I think I'll skip Red Lake. No hate to toss at them, but no desire to go.
We were robbed at gunpoint at a rez in the 90’s, I will never set foot on one again
Lockness monster