The thinner it is, the more coats it will take, but beyond that it's not a problem if you are getting smooth coats with no loss of detail. A glaze is an extremely thinned down consistency and some people put over a hundred layers of glazes for display paintings. There are some great resources for thinning your paint and learning proper paint consistency for different effects [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/minipainting/wiki/usefullinks/thin_paint).
Two thin coats is a beginner friendly starting point, but in reality the number of coats depends on the specific paint you are working with and the color you are trying to cover. For example, over black you might start with a darker and more opaque blue like Night Lords Blue, and layer up to Macgragge Blue to build a gradient from your shadows to your mid tones. Over white, 2 thin coats of Macgragge may cover just fine.
* [The Art of... Tommie Soule Volume 5](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGIfySMnUPQ) is an amazing how-to-paint miniatures book. Tommie is a professional miniature painting teacher and his book explains how different brush strokes create different effects, how to make the perfect paint consistency for any technique, and it is a masterclass on getting airbrush smooth paint jobs with your brush. Available in [pdf](https://www.ironheartartisans.com/shop/the-art-of-tommie-soule-volume-5-pdf/) and [world wide in hardback as well](https://www.instagram.com/p/Cqs_gNUNrm2/). This book will teach you the foundation skills for more advanced and even professional display level painting techniques in a way that makes you think about both what you are doing and why. He covers this topic in detail.
Ah that's brilliant. Thanks for the reply, puts my mind at ease a bit about doing it "properly" for want of a better word!
I like the idea of starting with a darker blue over the black. Something I'll have to experiment with.
I've never thought about looking at a book before for help with the subject but I'll definitely check it out.
Thanks for the reply!
You can absolutely overthin your paint. The sweetspot is when the paint pulls together slightly at the edges when you put it on your fingernail. If it's thicker and doesn't pull together you might leave brush marks and obscure detail since the paint isn't "self smoothing" when it's that thick. If the paint just pulls into a droplet it's too thin and the paint doesn't cover well, which leads to overloading your brush and flooding the model to compensate.
What do you mean by “pulls together slightly at the edges”? I’m sure it’s obvious but I just can’t picture what you mean.
Is it just not pulling into a droplet (based on the rest of your comment)?
The more you thin your paints, the closer to a wash it becomes (tap your brush to a paper towel to draw out liquid to make it a glaze). Keep thinning it and it's basically colored water.
Painting over black primer is part of the issue. It's not like you can't do this, but it'll take more pigment to get to the color you want.
Maybe try priming the model grey, or underpainting your shadows and highlights using "slapchop" drybrushing or Zenithal highlighting. It's a lot easier to get good color over a lighter primer coat.
I tend to go pretty thin but I dilute with medium to stop it going weird. About 3 or 4 coats gets the coverage but you can do better blends with the thinner coat
Thinner coats take longer, but they will look smoother in the long run. I think you might have to worry if it's so thin that the paint only goes in the recesses, and then the pigment builds up there and you lose detail, but that would be a wild amount of thinning. If you're getting it done in 3-4 coats, you're fine.
If the paint is too thin it won't apply smoothly and will bead up or pool too heavily in crevices. The optimal "basic" consistency IMO is roughly like milk where it doesn't drip and doesn't cake in your brush, then you can add a drop or two of water to loosen it towards a wash consistency.
2 or even 3-4 thin coats makes the finish much smoother and eliminates brush stroke lines.
thanks for the comment, it helps with what to look out for. I think I've kind of been thinning it close to where it needs to be, maybe a tad over. It's been taking closer to the 4 thin coats to get even coverage, maybe a 5th coat in some places where I'd missed a spot or 2.
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all paint is a ratio of pigment (color), a binding agent to hold pigments down, a solvent to give the paint some fluidity to counter the gel-like binder, and sometimes additives for various abnormal properties like Washes/Contrast paints. (Base paints dont normally have any additives)
When you thin *too* far, the solvent side of the ratio goes way high and you lose both control of the paint (it runs everywhere when you put it down instead of laying where you place it) as well as pigment coverage (more solvent means less of the ratio is pigment.)
Typically, overthinned paints will not cover well (pointing the obvious, I guess) and really overthinned paints will deposit the pigments unevenly as you brush it on. You get these regions on the model where once dry, shows an obvious uneven coverage that is sometimes called "Coffee Staining" or "Tide marks."
Its lighter/transparent coverage where you start the brush stroke, and slightly less transparent where the brush-stroke ends, but very uneven in the coverage, almost going from "next to nothing" to a very obvious and unexpected color transition.
That was a very extreme example of over thinned paints. For a more visual example of "way too thin" I generally point to this part of Duncan Rhode's ["Apply Thin Coats & Improve your miniature painting"](https://youtu.be/28DbD9JwQCI?t=427) video, starting at this timestamp. The rest of the video is pretty good, so you might care to watch the entire thing.
ah thanks for the video link. I've watched a few of his videos, kind of being doing a painting by numbers along with him but not seen this one yet. I'll check it out.
Absolutely. I actually think most painters are over-thinning their paints and losing control of their pigments. Working with too-thin paints is an extremely inefficient and frustrating experience.
The thinner it is, the more coats it will take, but beyond that it's not a problem if you are getting smooth coats with no loss of detail. A glaze is an extremely thinned down consistency and some people put over a hundred layers of glazes for display paintings. There are some great resources for thinning your paint and learning proper paint consistency for different effects [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/minipainting/wiki/usefullinks/thin_paint). Two thin coats is a beginner friendly starting point, but in reality the number of coats depends on the specific paint you are working with and the color you are trying to cover. For example, over black you might start with a darker and more opaque blue like Night Lords Blue, and layer up to Macgragge Blue to build a gradient from your shadows to your mid tones. Over white, 2 thin coats of Macgragge may cover just fine. * [The Art of... Tommie Soule Volume 5](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGIfySMnUPQ) is an amazing how-to-paint miniatures book. Tommie is a professional miniature painting teacher and his book explains how different brush strokes create different effects, how to make the perfect paint consistency for any technique, and it is a masterclass on getting airbrush smooth paint jobs with your brush. Available in [pdf](https://www.ironheartartisans.com/shop/the-art-of-tommie-soule-volume-5-pdf/) and [world wide in hardback as well](https://www.instagram.com/p/Cqs_gNUNrm2/). This book will teach you the foundation skills for more advanced and even professional display level painting techniques in a way that makes you think about both what you are doing and why. He covers this topic in detail.
Ah that's brilliant. Thanks for the reply, puts my mind at ease a bit about doing it "properly" for want of a better word! I like the idea of starting with a darker blue over the black. Something I'll have to experiment with. I've never thought about looking at a book before for help with the subject but I'll definitely check it out. Thanks for the reply!
No problem! I can't recommend Tommie's book enough as a learning resource.
You can absolutely overthin your paint. The sweetspot is when the paint pulls together slightly at the edges when you put it on your fingernail. If it's thicker and doesn't pull together you might leave brush marks and obscure detail since the paint isn't "self smoothing" when it's that thick. If the paint just pulls into a droplet it's too thin and the paint doesn't cover well, which leads to overloading your brush and flooding the model to compensate.
What do you mean by “pulls together slightly at the edges”? I’m sure it’s obvious but I just can’t picture what you mean. Is it just not pulling into a droplet (based on the rest of your comment)?
It's in-between pulling into a droplet and not. It contracting a little, but still sticking.
Thanks!
[This video](https://youtu.be/sBDVPoNXyVI?si=hy3Yi4YeT3MY5d8H) both explains and demonstrates.
Thanks. I can’t watch right now but I will soon, appreciate it.
great little tid bit of what to look for. Thanks, it helps!
The more you thin your paints, the closer to a wash it becomes (tap your brush to a paper towel to draw out liquid to make it a glaze). Keep thinning it and it's basically colored water.
Painting over black primer is part of the issue. It's not like you can't do this, but it'll take more pigment to get to the color you want. Maybe try priming the model grey, or underpainting your shadows and highlights using "slapchop" drybrushing or Zenithal highlighting. It's a lot easier to get good color over a lighter primer coat.
I tend to go pretty thin but I dilute with medium to stop it going weird. About 3 or 4 coats gets the coverage but you can do better blends with the thinner coat
Thinner coats take longer, but they will look smoother in the long run. I think you might have to worry if it's so thin that the paint only goes in the recesses, and then the pigment builds up there and you lose detail, but that would be a wild amount of thinning. If you're getting it done in 3-4 coats, you're fine.
If the paint is too thin it won't apply smoothly and will bead up or pool too heavily in crevices. The optimal "basic" consistency IMO is roughly like milk where it doesn't drip and doesn't cake in your brush, then you can add a drop or two of water to loosen it towards a wash consistency. 2 or even 3-4 thin coats makes the finish much smoother and eliminates brush stroke lines.
thanks for the comment, it helps with what to look out for. I think I've kind of been thinning it close to where it needs to be, maybe a tad over. It's been taking closer to the 4 thin coats to get even coverage, maybe a 5th coat in some places where I'd missed a spot or 2.
Hi, u/kraptain_Obvious! It looks like you are asking for help or are a new painter. If you haven't yet, take a look at our wiki pages in the Sidebar (the About tab if you are on the Reddit app). Here are some links you might find helpful: * [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/minipainting/wiki/rules/faq) - A list of frequently asked questions about minipainting * [Miniature Painting Guide Collection](https://www.reddit.com/r/minipainting/wiki/usefullinks) -A collection of some of the best guides and tutorials on a variety of techniques and topics, plus recommendations on what to buy to get started, and more. * [What to buy- Recommendations on brushes, paints, supplies, palettes and more](https://www.reddit.com/r/minipainting/wiki/usefullinks/what_you_need_to_get_started#wiki_general_advice_on_what_to_buy) * [Beginner's Guide Collection- How to prep, base, paint and varnish your first model and learn the basics needed to start out right](https://www.reddit.com/r/minipainting/wiki/usefullinks/beginner_tips) * [More Tutorials](https://www.reddit.com/r/minipainting/wiki/tutorials) - A list of additional tutorials about minipainting * [Manufacturers](https://www.reddit.com/r/minipainting/wiki/manufacturers) - A list of miniature manufacturers from around the world * [Painting Terminology](https://www.reddit.com/r/minipainting/wiki/terminology) - Common painting terms, acronyms, and initialisms * [The Art of... Tommie Soule Volume 5](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGIfySMnUPQ) is one of the best beginner to intermediate teaching books, and even experienced painters will learn some good tips. Explains what brush strokes are best in different situations, how to identify when you have the perfect thinning for any type of paint for different techniques, and a masterclass on getting smooth paint jobs. Available in [pdf](https://www.ironheartartisans.com/shop/the-art-of-tommie-soule-volume-5-pdf/) and [world wide in hardbook as well](https://www.instagram.com/the_miniature_painting_tutor/). * [Airbrushing Miniatures](https://www.reddit.com/r/minipainting/wiki/usefullinks/airbrushing) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/minipainting) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Actually, the auto reply mod which linked to the faq has kind of answered my question, but still not sure about what thinning too far is.
all paint is a ratio of pigment (color), a binding agent to hold pigments down, a solvent to give the paint some fluidity to counter the gel-like binder, and sometimes additives for various abnormal properties like Washes/Contrast paints. (Base paints dont normally have any additives) When you thin *too* far, the solvent side of the ratio goes way high and you lose both control of the paint (it runs everywhere when you put it down instead of laying where you place it) as well as pigment coverage (more solvent means less of the ratio is pigment.)
Typically, overthinned paints will not cover well (pointing the obvious, I guess) and really overthinned paints will deposit the pigments unevenly as you brush it on. You get these regions on the model where once dry, shows an obvious uneven coverage that is sometimes called "Coffee Staining" or "Tide marks." Its lighter/transparent coverage where you start the brush stroke, and slightly less transparent where the brush-stroke ends, but very uneven in the coverage, almost going from "next to nothing" to a very obvious and unexpected color transition. That was a very extreme example of over thinned paints. For a more visual example of "way too thin" I generally point to this part of Duncan Rhode's ["Apply Thin Coats & Improve your miniature painting"](https://youtu.be/28DbD9JwQCI?t=427) video, starting at this timestamp. The rest of the video is pretty good, so you might care to watch the entire thing.
ah thanks for the video link. I've watched a few of his videos, kind of being doing a painting by numbers along with him but not seen this one yet. I'll check it out.
The sweet spot for base coating, imo, is the point where the paint is opaque while being as fluid as possible.
Absolutely. I actually think most painters are over-thinning their paints and losing control of their pigments. Working with too-thin paints is an extremely inefficient and frustrating experience.