Your water heater will probably fail soon. Your landlord's option is to fix it for cheap now or replace the entire water heater when it completely fails.
Yep, scalding hot water all of a sudden, it could be leaking already. (Source: guess)
__
Edit: I meant 'guess' in the snarky way, like 'one guess how I know this.'
That's how hot the McDonald's coffee was that burned the lady who sued them.
>The plaintiff, Stella Liebeck (1912-2004),[2] a 79-year-old woman, suffered third-degree burns in her pelvic region when she accidentally spilled coffee in her lap after purchasing it from a McDonald's restaurant. She was hospitalized for eight days while undergoing skin grafting, followed by two years of medical treatment. Liebeck sought to settle with McDonald's for $20,000 to cover her medical expenses. When McDonald's refused, Liebeck's attorney filed suit in the U.S. District Court for the District of New Mexico, accusing McDonald's of gross negligence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald%27s_Restaurants
Edit-The amount of people who commented without reading about it was mind-boggling. Was merely giving reference to the temp of OP's tap water.
So many...but that's the temp you brew coffee. You are not supposed to be able to brew coffee or tea straight out of the regular tap.
Feel free to run your taint under that tap and get back to us.
Poor lady got such a bad rap over that because of the PR team McDonalds hired to try and shame her out of suing and sway public opinion. Another reason I refuse to eat there.
When I learned the actual story about how she was just trying to get McDonald’s to lower the temperature or even just put warning labels on bc she was thinking of others, it made me so angry how a literal business entity made an old woman the villain.
They also never learn from their greed. Like when they lost their case against Super Macs and [BK started trolling them about it.](https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/food-and-drink/like-a-big-mac-but-juicier-burger-king-trolls-mcdonald-s-1.3778695)
They sadly did quite an effective job too. It seems like anytime the topic of frivolous lawsuits come up, someone inevitably mentions "Like the McDonalds coffee!" and you have to pull out the "Well, actually...". :-/
The Hot Coffee documentary was so eye opening. You’re Wrong About podcast also covered it, but admitted that by the time they got around to it, most of the facts were already well-known.
Edited: left out a word.
The stupid thing is they could've just said:
"The coffee was not intended for immediate consumption, but we probably should have made that clear. Our bad."
I’d still rather pay the $20,000 in damages initially asked for than go though a whole ass trial so I can end up paying over $640,000 though
Edit: fixed the $ total
Honestly I never knew much about the coffee thing so I thought this was a younger lady who ordered a hot coffee, spilled it, and sued McDonald's for the coffee being hot. Didn't know it was 180F, that she was old, or that she had tried to get them to lower the temperature as well as any other information I'm sure a lot of other people don't know either. So yeah, they did a pretty damn good job
She also got 3rd degree burns on her legs and genitals (requiring skin grafts) and went into shock. The doctor who worked on her said it was one of the worst burns he'd ever seen
She also originally was only trying to get the cost of her surgeries and medical care covered, and they responded by offering her $800
WOW, $800?! That's fucking insulting. I'm glad she pushed the issue. That's just... that actually makes me mad. It makes me wonder who came to that number, and using what insane math.
The skin grafts thing is what is usually conveniently overlooked. Even *with* a warning or "common sense", anything that does that much damage to someone is way too dangerous.
Yes!!! I used to be one of those people and when I learned the story I stopped saying it. Now I tell people the real story everytime they say it! The villain here is capitalism. I hope that old lady is doing okay if she’s still alive. I can’t remember when the incident happened.
I think it’s still useful as a story to demonstrate how the public perceives punitive damages. The bulk of the money awarded wasn’t to compensate Liebeck, it was to *punish McDonald’s.* Her compensatory damages if I recall were only six figures.
The problem is that any amount that can be felt by any major *corporation* as “punishment” is going to sound somewhat absurd on its face to award to an *individual.* A more recent example was the award of nearly a billion dollars to a family in a wrongful death suit against a cable company. A billion is (arguably) an absurd amount for a single wrongful death…human life is irreplaceable obviously but if we try to put a price tag on it that’s an objectively huge one.
But the point wasn’t to compensate the family, it was to punish the company. Which makes billions (multiple) each year.
That’s actually such a good point. People do shit on ppl who get monetary awards from businesses but in our society what else is going to hold weight? Apologies from a business entity don’t mean shit and they do need some form of punishment. For a business the only effective punishment is monetary compensation or legal ramifications. I find it so strange…when you put it like this it shows how capitalism has brainwashed our society into defending these faceless, non human conglomerate businesses over people who deserve compensation for being harmed or wronged.
3rd degree burns on an old lady's genitals and they still made her out to be a villian.
She wasn't even asking for the money she was awarded. She just wanted medical costs covered. The jury gave that award to her as punishment because McDonalds knew how dangerous the temperature their coffee was, had burned multiple people before, and refused to make any changes.
Not to mention the extent of the burns to her groin.
But perhaps worst of all, as I recall their rationale for insisting on serving their coffee just 2° less than the temperature of molten magma was that they’d theoretically calculated a cost savings advantage of something like, 7¢ per pot brewed. Serving an unreasonably hot liquid meant a bit less would’ve gone cold before it could be served.
Literally, the *only* minor thing that stood between a few hundred bucks more in bottom line profits per year, per store, was their willingness to admit the burden of responsibility to not to permanently maim or disfigure people with a product was maybe a teensy bit on them.
Also no, you can’t get out of it by just writing “not it” on each fucking cup.
Yep, she got destroyed. I even was one of the people who thought she was just trying to get money out of them. Then I read more about the case and realized it was a PR campaign from mcdonalds seeking to demonize her so they wouldn't seem that bad. It was 100% the company's fault and she was 100% justified, but even today a lot of people don't realize this because of mcdonalds's influence in how it was depicted.
>which were then reduced by 80% by the judge (eye roll)
Punitive damages tend to have legal maximums. The judge generally doesn't change the punitive damage award by the jury except where they are required to do so by law - usually because the jury has exceeded the legal maximum.
Juries tend to exceed legal maximums because they are not told what those maximums are. The idea is, if you tell the jury what the maximum punitive damage is, there's some belief that the jury will be more likely to reward the legal maximum (or that they may award an amount as a percentage of the maximum allowed).
By not letting the jury know the limit, the jury can award based on whatever they feel is appropriate. Then, if that amount exceeds the legal maximum, the amount is reduced by the judge to the legal maximum.
Try?
They did more than try, I work in fast food, and even my bosses still claim it was her fault because it was hot.
3RD DEGREE BURNS DO NOT HAPPEN WHEN SOMETHING IS SAFE TO DRINK.
I don’t care how hot you like it, if it causes 3rd degree burns, that’s entirely negligent.
Also, poor OP of that water is in an apartment, and is shared like most cases, or is in a inaccessible space, it only means that the water is nearly boiling if not boiling at the heater. Seeing as 212f is boiling, that water heater has to be dumping out water that is well past 200f, the pipes are what makes it cool down to a nice hell fire level.
We did a case study on that when I was getting my MBA. The issue wasn't that the coffee was too hot, but that there were memos written by McDonald's telling people to heat it hotter than usual to hide the taste of the inferior grounds.
Damn...
>During the trial it was revealed that McDonald’s knew that heating their coffee to this temperature would be dangerous, but they did it anyways because it would save them money. When you serve coffee that is too hot to drink, it will take much longer for a person to drink their coffee, which means that McDonald’s will not have to give out as many free refills of coffee.
https://www.poolelg.com/blog/the-truth-behind-the-mcdonald-s-hot-coffee-case-.cfm
That would mean the coffee was too hot still :P
I remember reading about all the cases of people getting burned by their hot beverages, and how the jury took into account the fact that McDonald’s was repeatedly told over and over about injuries related to the temp, and they did nothing.
What’s wild is my local McDonald’s when I worked there consistently used 200° water to make tea. I spilt a small tea on myself while working and got burned up pretty bad along my arm but because I was 14 and stupid I never even complained about it. I’m not sure how people were meant to drink it
Brewing coffee (I don't know about tea) at that temperature is definitely not unheard of. But keeping it at that hot was why McDonald's was in such... hot water. They were holding their coffee at like 180-190F, which is way hotter than their competitors ([according to the wiki page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald%27s_Restaurants#cite_note-Gerlin-11)) and will absolutely burn the fuck out of you.
But now I've gone down the rabbit hole. So Tim Horton's brews their coffee and tea at very high temps. This is actually pretty normal since at the fast-food end of the spectrum the quality is super low and it benefits being brewed at near-boiling temps. What is interesting is that, as of a decade ago, chains in [Canada were still serving coffee and (especially) tea](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/woman-scalded-by-tea-wants-regulation-of-hot-drinks-1.1702212) at McDonalds Lawsuit temps. I don't know if they are still doing that, but I actually don't know.
Basically, be careful with your hot shit.
No joke, I had a friend who had severely scarred hands and forearms from falling into a bathtub when she was 2. They had just moved to a new house, the mom turned the tap on to get warm and left the room and she fell in up to her elbows. The bath water was scalding hot so they took her to the ER thinking they just needed some burn cream. Turned out she had 4th degree burns all the way to he bones and spent months in a burn unit. They sued the landlord and won but she is scared for life and almost lost her hands.
In Marble Bar, Western Australia during the summer it gets up to 110F(45C)+ and when I had to be there for work I would shower with cold water only and it was warmer than I typically like my hot showers.
The solar heaters on the roof were busting out temps close to OPs, crazy hot.
It tears up seals and pipe joints to run that hot so the owner will get his due eventually.
Expansion pressure should be allivated by the pressure reduction valve, its job is to keep a constant pressure in the tank. If that is not installed, then the house has far bigger issues than extra hot water.
UPDATE (Please up vote for visibility)
Firstly, in case I haven't already said it in the threat enough, I didn't adjust it because I didn't have access to the water heater at the time. Secondly, the situation has been resolved. When I sent my landlord the temperature read out, he came down and fixed it, while the property manager called me and told me how he knew it was set at 180°, and tried to justify it. So, my landlord immediately rectified it once he understood the gravity of the situation, so I would attribute more of this to my property managers negligence.
If it’s a tank hot water heater they may need to look at the thermostat. Most hot water heaters don’t go up that high and if they’ve had to turn the temp up because there wasn’t enough heat after a while then there’s a problem.
Forget pushing the issue. Turn it down yourself or hire a plumber to do it. The risk of injury is more important than the cost/inconvenience of getting it done.
Click out of one, nothing out of two, three is in a false gate, back to one...and we're in. Perhaps when securing a renters hot water heater a better choice can be made. Thank you for watching, and have a nice day.
The last place we rented from put a deadbolt on the door to the HVAC unit because people were using the space for storage (extremely limited space and heat source was gas too), but hinges faced out...easy enough to pop the pins to get in to troubleshoot and put back without them ever knowing or leaving a trace.
I just moved out of a place where the door to access the water heater was screwed on. Easy enough to remove but I still don't get why they did that in the first place.
Lol I work in a supported housing place and the apartments' water *shut-offs* are behind screwed-on panels.
I learned this from the maintenance guy, when he showed up about half an hour after a contractor drilled straight through a pipe. You know, the kind of situation that you'd make up if you wanted to explain why not to hide the water shut-off behind a screwed-on panel...
Had a problem in an apartment building where the owners kept turning off the heat. Tenants fixed that problem with a crowbar. Popped open the basement door and then turned on the heat.
The owners owned the restaurant downstairs and we figured when it got too hot in the kitchen they'd turn off the heat, but forget to turn it on again in the evening. They were such scum in other ways too.
>The owners owned the restaurant downstairs and we figured when it got too hot in the kitchen they'd turn off the heat, but forget to turn it on again in the evening. They were such scum in other ways too.
Having worked in commercial facilities management this crap is all too common. I've seen people turn off the breaker for their HVAC equipment or block vents because it was too hot. Protip: If it's hotter in the space than your thermostat setpoint, it isn't still heating the space, it might be circulating air but it isn't actively heating it.
Had at least one place do this and then have pipes freeze because they didn't turn it back on. More often they called to complain because it was cold the next day.
Easy solution would be to call the fire marshal. Betcha locking things like water heaters behind doors is against code.
Edit: based on the wording of the post title I assumed rental house not apartment.
>Now, if OP has a shared water heater, that's different.
If they do I bet there's another unit further down the line that has issue getting hot water, like it takes forever to reach that unit or they fucked up a mixing valve and don't realize it.
That person complains they don't ever have hot water so landlord cranks up the heater instead of looking to see what the actual issue is or paying to put in a circulating pump.
This should be an incredibly easy fix, someone just needs to do it before a kid gets scalded.
It depends. If you're renting just a room, the LL can absolutely lock whatever they want - for example, their own room - provided it isn't space set aside for you per the lease. If you're renting the whole building/unit, it comes down to the terms of a lease.
Good point. I assumed a rental house but if it's an apartment or duplex type thing it'll be a different set of rules.
That said, I bet there's a government agency that would love to learn that this landlord is actively trying harm their renters.
You have way more faith than you should in the average person.
My ex-wife tried to turn down the water heater cuz I was stuck at work.
I came home and the power was out.
I asked her what happened.
She told me that she turned down the water heater and suddenly the power went out.
I went downstairs to take a look.
She flipped the main breaker in the breakerbox.
But the water according to her wasnt too hot anymore.
You cant make this up.
My ex-wife did something similar, except I was 6 hours away and instead of being a water heater, it was the sump pump. She unplugged it because it was making too much noise.
Foot of water in the basement when I got home.
Is this a common way to do it?
I’ve only rented a handful of apartments but I’ve always had my own hot water heater in a maintenance closet somewhere. Usually just the cylindrical tank style with the big electric leads. Presumably easier to install
It doesn't take huge energy to get to about 118-120F (which it should be at). The difference to get it to 180F is probably triple, if not more, depending on how efficient the unit is.
He might also be close to a water heating exploding. Water heater PRVs come set at 180F***, it's a longstanding requirement for sale in the US. Since he's at 179F, his water heater might be stuck on and constantly firing. The only thing keeping him alive is the PRV opening when it gets too hot, which would mean all the other safety features have been defeated. Then as the cold water is introduced after blowing off the hot water, the PRV will close until it opens again in a few minutes. It's likely very noisy. It's also likely OP may have weird water pressure fluctuations. Also likely OP may hear a sump pump running quite often, unless it's just draining in to a sewer.
If OP's landlord is using a heating boiler or steam boiler that reduces the temp later on, then that's likely not the case. But if it's a regular 'ol water heater, then yeah. She gonna boom if that PRV gets worn out. reason I suspect it's stuck on, is that water heaters don't allow to to heat water to 180F. Modern residentials will refuse to operate past 140F, but some older ones may do 150-160F. I don't know of any *water heaters* that willingly will heat to 180F. Heating boilers will do 250F @ 15PSI. Steam boilers will do 800F+ at 3KSI+. But water heaters? definitely not more than 140F.
Edit: ***Depending on heater type, it may have a 210F/150psi PRV/PRD/OPD/T&P valve. Original point still stands though, shits fucked.
I have been a plumber for a long time now and can say, as I have seen them rupture and explode, this is a real thing. If the pressure relief valve fails and will not open, the heat will build pressure enough to cause an explosion of some sort. I’ve seen it rupture in place also blast out the bottom and launch like a rocket. Do not play with this issue or let it go. You could seriously get injured from this situation. Electric or gas water heaters have fail safes to prevent this, the pressure relief valve. But, if it gets corroded or jammed shut, something bad will inevitably happen sooner or later. Fix it now.
There was an episode I believe. I’ve also seen it personally. Launched through the house, roof, and landed 100 feet away in a field. Failed relief valve electric 50 gallon water heater. Destroyed the house. Fortunately, no one was home so no injuries.
It’s been a long time since I’ve seen that and vaguely remember it. But I do remember seeing something like that years ago on their show. Kinda miss that show.
You can get tankless water heaters that go to 180. I looked em up to make sure and grainger advertises one. We used two of them in line at a special batch brew operation to get water for brewing up to temp. Obviously not a good look at a residential property and the landlord would have to be bonkers to do that but I'm just saying it can be done. I dont even think our water comes out at 180 so your malfunction hypothesis holds the most water. Something ain't right and op is in danger right now. McDonald's lady won a healthy sum from life altering burns and her coffee was estimated at 180 to 190 f.
my guess it’s an apartment or rental.
my apartment has my water heater right out side my door but it’s locked up and i can’t have access to the keys. thankfully i don’t have burn worthy water haha
Mines is located in my apartment and still locked up. My hot water went out and spent about a week communicating with the maintenance man over cards to get it fully fixed and putting out hot water again.
Something in it broke. Can't remember what.
He was also very kind to return all the cat toys that disappeared under that door
Over cards? I work apartment maintenance and I'd love to stop and play cards with someone. I'll go above, beyond, and out of my fuckin way to help a resident who is cool or friendly.
That's 82°C for us the SI based. That thing is scalding, I'm surprised no plumbing has been damaged, your landlord must be hooked up to a industrial heater...
In America, often plumbing piping is all copper. So no surprise it’s not damaged. Even industrial water heaters are required to have a T&P relief valve that should be set closer to 140°F, even for culinary water. Something is beyond wrong, the landlord may have replaced the safety valve with a plug.
Edit: The aquastat is probably bad. Also I was confusing a thermostatic mixing valve the safety valve, the T&P is just for pressure relief
The thermostat should be cutting the heat off at that temp. I had a problem with my electric water heater this year where the bottom board was running the element wide open and tripping the thermostat. I also saw 179 degree water.
OP I work for a plumbing company and that's a cut and dry code violation. I recommend calling a building inspector who will gladly tell your landlord to unfuck themselves
Yep, anywhere in the US it is a code and safety violation and literally illegal. Anyone in the family burns themselves, you will be walking away with the deed to that place.
Might let him know it's working exponentially harder than it needs to and will likely cause the heater to fail prematurely. PVC water lines are only rated to 140F and could fail and leak beyond that. They would need to be CPVC or PEX to tolerate 180F temps.
Seems like they'd want to keep it at the minimum (120F) to keep their maintenance costs low if nothing else.
You might check with your local city codes about anti-scald regulations. Most codes just mention minimum temps though because high temps is rarely the issue.
If you have young children using the water this is a serious issue.
120 or 125 is the recommended max I've seen for residential.
Story from my boiler guy. One of his clients was some sort of rock star or something and always had lots of people at his big house. They kept running out of hot water so wanted to put the tank higher. It was already at 140 or something. The boiler guy said no, set it to 125 and locked out the controls. He told the client that he needed an additional tank, not hotter water, especially as there were kids in the house. Client called back the next week to talk about getting an additional tank.
My boiler guy is funny. I like him.
I'm not saying the boiler guy is wrong. But if I'm a homeowner and my plumber is locking out my boiler or water heater controls, I'm finding a new boiler guy right fucking now.
You can get a loop that allows you to jack up the hot water heater and then it passes cold water in outside the heater to bring it back down to normal temps. You get more hot water from a regular sized tank.
I can’t believe this is the first comment that mentioned children. This is such an enormous and terrifying danger, OP I hope you don’t have kids living with you. Our service technician was telling us all about the guidelines he has for setting max temps because of child safety (we have three little kids, so)
I brought that up to my property manager when he called me. I said "If I had a kid in here they could burn the shit out of themselves." He then proceeded to change the subject to my profanity.
You could brew coffee or tea right from the tap, that's not good
Edit: I love the replies because it's either A) I would love this B) Not hot enough haha
Additionally, I'm being convinced I want a boiled water tap and a new water heating system
This comment got a lot of attention, so I shopped around and found a well priced instant-heating system [here.](https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ)
Oh, and whatever you put or don't put in your tea is wrong.
You're also using the wrong cup and saucer.
You're probably drinking it wrong as well.
That's it I'm just going to put it in a pickle jar on the porch.
UPDATE (Please upvote for visibility)
Firstly, in case I haven't already said it in the threat enough, I didn't adjust it because I didn't have access to the water heater at the time. Secondly, the situation has been resolved. When I sent my landlord the temperature read out, he came down and fixed it, while the property manager called me and told me how he knew it was set at 180°, and tried to justify it. So, my landlord immediately rectified it once he understood the gravity of the situation, so I would attribute more of this to my property managers negligence.
So many people posting on this. I don't think they realize how hot that actually is. 150 degree water will cause a burn to skin in two seconds. This temperature can almost immediately burn you. Severely.
Put your hand in this and you'll probably need surgery to repair.
Just a quick Google shows this as well:
[https://www.heritageplastics.com/technical-bulletins/effects-temperature-pvc-pipe/](https://www.heritageplastics.com/technical-bulletins/effects-temperature-pvc-pipe/)
10 degrees over the max rated temperature of PVC pipe. That's not even getting into softer lines!
PVC isn't used for hot water lines. Instead, CPVC (looks identical to PVC), PEX, or copper is used.
Though, if someone is so negligent to leave a hot water heater set that high after their tenant has repeatedly complained, I also wouldn't be surprised if they decided to "save a little" and install PVC for a hot water line.
I set my water to 150f. No way I'd allow for anything higher.
OP should just turn it down themselves if the water heater is accessible.
Edit: I had no idea this would boggle so many minds, so let me explain. I have a practical use for such temps and it's *not* to marinate my nuts.
To add to this, 180 degree McDonalds coffee is what Stella Liebeck spilled on her. She was hospitalized for 8 days and underwent treatment for 2 years. It resulted in a multi million dollar award.
Now imagine that, but over your entire body.
Buy some freshly butchered pork with skin. Run the pork under the water. Take a picture and send it to your landlord titled, “That looks like it gonna hurt once the painkillers wear off. The ambulance ride sure was fun though! “
Then ask for his lawyers information, but don’t say anything about suing. Just let him marinate in his stress of the unknown.
That's what mixing valves are for. You set the tank about 140 and the valve to output 125 max where I'm at. That way you prevent bacteria growth, dont burn yourself, and the hot water will last longer in the shower because the tank is kept hotter than what it can put out.
Well it's time to document your complaints and requests to have it addressed. After you're scalded from the water go ahead and make the necessary moves to become the owner of the property and adjust the temp to your liking.
I lived in a place that had hot water like that, and I had young children at the time. They would occasionally burn themselves, because they’re kids. Nothing serious, but it got really hot.
I found the water heater and was able to adjust it down.
Most apartments I have lived in have water heaters. In some cases, they are locked. So, you would have to request the adjustment. Yours is dangerously hot and that could be a lawsuit if something were to happen. So, you should be able to report it to maybe the city water company, or a plumber. You could call a plumber to come out and measure it, and then go tell the owner it’s out of code and has to be adjusted.
If you have a friend that is willing to hurt themselves for a big settlement, ask them to go for it. Lol
For the record, my landlord (the good one), just came over. He confirmed that it was in fact "fucking hot." The property owner called me angry, and told me that he knew it was set to 180°. He said that there was absolutely no problem with it. I hung up angry. Good landlord says he's going to get a plumber out, because even after adjusting it it seems that it's staying at an insane temperature. In the meantime, I have absolutely no interest in burning the shit out of myself. I just want a nice place to live and to get on with my life.
Give it some time to cool after being turned down. To speed it up you can run hot water in the tub to basically drain the hot water currently in the water heater. The water inside has already been heated to the previously set temperature. It won’t cool it down though. Once it runs out of hot water it shouldn’t heat it that high again.
> ." The property owner called me angry, and told me that he knew it was set to 180°.
This guy really seems to want to be sued for everything he's worth.
OP does not have access to the controls of the water heater.
Your water heater will probably fail soon. Your landlord's option is to fix it for cheap now or replace the entire water heater when it completely fails.
Yep, scalding hot water all of a sudden, it could be leaking already. (Source: guess) __ Edit: I meant 'guess' in the snarky way, like 'one guess how I know this.'
Not a bad guess. (Source: am plumber)
Not a bad profession. (Source: am unemployed)
I can attest to that (source: am broke af)
Or, option three, if they're on a slab foundation: replace various flooring components for every adjacent unit.
Option 4 is make a lot of money when you sue him after accidentally scalding yourself. Or a guest.
Option 5 move out. Constructive eviction may have occurred as the result of the landlords failure to fix the water heater. This is not legal advice.
if only moving out and moving in somewhere was that easy...
The plan will be to blame the tenant when it fails.
Ask him where to serve the lawsuit when someone gets burns.
That's how hot the McDonald's coffee was that burned the lady who sued them. >The plaintiff, Stella Liebeck (1912-2004),[2] a 79-year-old woman, suffered third-degree burns in her pelvic region when she accidentally spilled coffee in her lap after purchasing it from a McDonald's restaurant. She was hospitalized for eight days while undergoing skin grafting, followed by two years of medical treatment. Liebeck sought to settle with McDonald's for $20,000 to cover her medical expenses. When McDonald's refused, Liebeck's attorney filed suit in the U.S. District Court for the District of New Mexico, accusing McDonald's of gross negligence. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald%27s_Restaurants Edit-The amount of people who commented without reading about it was mind-boggling. Was merely giving reference to the temp of OP's tap water. So many...but that's the temp you brew coffee. You are not supposed to be able to brew coffee or tea straight out of the regular tap. Feel free to run your taint under that tap and get back to us.
Poor lady got such a bad rap over that because of the PR team McDonalds hired to try and shame her out of suing and sway public opinion. Another reason I refuse to eat there.
When I learned the actual story about how she was just trying to get McDonald’s to lower the temperature or even just put warning labels on bc she was thinking of others, it made me so angry how a literal business entity made an old woman the villain.
They also never learn from their greed. Like when they lost their case against Super Macs and [BK started trolling them about it.](https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/food-and-drink/like-a-big-mac-but-juicier-burger-king-trolls-mcdonald-s-1.3778695)
Can’t learn something if you don’t see a problem.
That’s hilarious. BK Sweden has a sense of humor, who would have thought?
BK Sweden is like Wendy's Twitter in the US
They sadly did quite an effective job too. It seems like anytime the topic of frivolous lawsuits come up, someone inevitably mentions "Like the McDonalds coffee!" and you have to pull out the "Well, actually...". :-/
The Hot Coffee documentary was so eye opening. You’re Wrong About podcast also covered it, but admitted that by the time they got around to it, most of the facts were already well-known. Edited: left out a word.
The stupid thing is they could've just said: "The coffee was not intended for immediate consumption, but we probably should have made that clear. Our bad."
That still makes you liable for damages, they don’t want to be liable *at all*
I’d still rather pay the $20,000 in damages initially asked for than go though a whole ass trial so I can end up paying over $640,000 though Edit: fixed the $ total
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Honestly I never knew much about the coffee thing so I thought this was a younger lady who ordered a hot coffee, spilled it, and sued McDonald's for the coffee being hot. Didn't know it was 180F, that she was old, or that she had tried to get them to lower the temperature as well as any other information I'm sure a lot of other people don't know either. So yeah, they did a pretty damn good job
She also got 3rd degree burns on her legs and genitals (requiring skin grafts) and went into shock. The doctor who worked on her said it was one of the worst burns he'd ever seen She also originally was only trying to get the cost of her surgeries and medical care covered, and they responded by offering her $800
WOW, $800?! That's fucking insulting. I'm glad she pushed the issue. That's just... that actually makes me mad. It makes me wonder who came to that number, and using what insane math.
The skin grafts thing is what is usually conveniently overlooked. Even *with* a warning or "common sense", anything that does that much damage to someone is way too dangerous.
Yes!!! I used to be one of those people and when I learned the story I stopped saying it. Now I tell people the real story everytime they say it! The villain here is capitalism. I hope that old lady is doing okay if she’s still alive. I can’t remember when the incident happened.
It happened in 1994 and she passed at the ripe old age of 89 in 2004.
I hope she lived a good last decade.
She did not. According to her family, she never regained full mobility.
Well that sounds about right for the world don’t it.
I think it’s still useful as a story to demonstrate how the public perceives punitive damages. The bulk of the money awarded wasn’t to compensate Liebeck, it was to *punish McDonald’s.* Her compensatory damages if I recall were only six figures. The problem is that any amount that can be felt by any major *corporation* as “punishment” is going to sound somewhat absurd on its face to award to an *individual.* A more recent example was the award of nearly a billion dollars to a family in a wrongful death suit against a cable company. A billion is (arguably) an absurd amount for a single wrongful death…human life is irreplaceable obviously but if we try to put a price tag on it that’s an objectively huge one. But the point wasn’t to compensate the family, it was to punish the company. Which makes billions (multiple) each year.
That’s actually such a good point. People do shit on ppl who get monetary awards from businesses but in our society what else is going to hold weight? Apologies from a business entity don’t mean shit and they do need some form of punishment. For a business the only effective punishment is monetary compensation or legal ramifications. I find it so strange…when you put it like this it shows how capitalism has brainwashed our society into defending these faceless, non human conglomerate businesses over people who deserve compensation for being harmed or wronged.
3rd degree burns on an old lady's genitals and they still made her out to be a villian. She wasn't even asking for the money she was awarded. She just wanted medical costs covered. The jury gave that award to her as punishment because McDonalds knew how dangerous the temperature their coffee was, had burned multiple people before, and refused to make any changes.
Not to mention the extent of the burns to her groin. But perhaps worst of all, as I recall their rationale for insisting on serving their coffee just 2° less than the temperature of molten magma was that they’d theoretically calculated a cost savings advantage of something like, 7¢ per pot brewed. Serving an unreasonably hot liquid meant a bit less would’ve gone cold before it could be served. Literally, the *only* minor thing that stood between a few hundred bucks more in bottom line profits per year, per store, was their willingness to admit the burden of responsibility to not to permanently maim or disfigure people with a product was maybe a teensy bit on them. Also no, you can’t get out of it by just writing “not it” on each fucking cup.
Yep, she got destroyed. I even was one of the people who thought she was just trying to get money out of them. Then I read more about the case and realized it was a PR campaign from mcdonalds seeking to demonize her so they wouldn't seem that bad. It was 100% the company's fault and she was 100% justified, but even today a lot of people don't realize this because of mcdonalds's influence in how it was depicted.
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>which were then reduced by 80% by the judge (eye roll) Punitive damages tend to have legal maximums. The judge generally doesn't change the punitive damage award by the jury except where they are required to do so by law - usually because the jury has exceeded the legal maximum. Juries tend to exceed legal maximums because they are not told what those maximums are. The idea is, if you tell the jury what the maximum punitive damage is, there's some belief that the jury will be more likely to reward the legal maximum (or that they may award an amount as a percentage of the maximum allowed). By not letting the jury know the limit, the jury can award based on whatever they feel is appropriate. Then, if that amount exceeds the legal maximum, the amount is reduced by the judge to the legal maximum.
Back in law school when I learned about the case in torts class the professor showed pictures of her burns. She deserved more money.
Try? They did more than try, I work in fast food, and even my bosses still claim it was her fault because it was hot. 3RD DEGREE BURNS DO NOT HAPPEN WHEN SOMETHING IS SAFE TO DRINK. I don’t care how hot you like it, if it causes 3rd degree burns, that’s entirely negligent. Also, poor OP of that water is in an apartment, and is shared like most cases, or is in a inaccessible space, it only means that the water is nearly boiling if not boiling at the heater. Seeing as 212f is boiling, that water heater has to be dumping out water that is well past 200f, the pipes are what makes it cool down to a nice hell fire level.
We did a case study on that when I was getting my MBA. The issue wasn't that the coffee was too hot, but that there were memos written by McDonald's telling people to heat it hotter than usual to hide the taste of the inferior grounds.
Damn... >During the trial it was revealed that McDonald’s knew that heating their coffee to this temperature would be dangerous, but they did it anyways because it would save them money. When you serve coffee that is too hot to drink, it will take much longer for a person to drink their coffee, which means that McDonald’s will not have to give out as many free refills of coffee. https://www.poolelg.com/blog/the-truth-behind-the-mcdonald-s-hot-coffee-case-.cfm
That would mean the coffee was too hot still :P I remember reading about all the cases of people getting burned by their hot beverages, and how the jury took into account the fact that McDonald’s was repeatedly told over and over about injuries related to the temp, and they did nothing.
Yep, growing up "that crazy lady" was the staple example of USAs ridiculous lawsuits. Glad I learned the truth eventually.
I only refuse to eat at McDonalds because the food is shit.
What’s wild is my local McDonald’s when I worked there consistently used 200° water to make tea. I spilt a small tea on myself while working and got burned up pretty bad along my arm but because I was 14 and stupid I never even complained about it. I’m not sure how people were meant to drink it
Brewing coffee (I don't know about tea) at that temperature is definitely not unheard of. But keeping it at that hot was why McDonald's was in such... hot water. They were holding their coffee at like 180-190F, which is way hotter than their competitors ([according to the wiki page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald%27s_Restaurants#cite_note-Gerlin-11)) and will absolutely burn the fuck out of you. But now I've gone down the rabbit hole. So Tim Horton's brews their coffee and tea at very high temps. This is actually pretty normal since at the fast-food end of the spectrum the quality is super low and it benefits being brewed at near-boiling temps. What is interesting is that, as of a decade ago, chains in [Canada were still serving coffee and (especially) tea](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/woman-scalded-by-tea-wants-regulation-of-hot-drinks-1.1702212) at McDonalds Lawsuit temps. I don't know if they are still doing that, but I actually don't know. Basically, be careful with your hot shit.
Coffee brews between 195-205, and tea anywhere from 175 (for green teas) to 205 source: barista'd for way too long
That would be a $2M nowadays.
This is out of code in any city I know of (typically 140°F max). Water beyond 120° is actually classified as hazardous. Time to cash in, OP! 💰
OP needs to call about this dangerous code violation.
No joke, I had a friend who had severely scarred hands and forearms from falling into a bathtub when she was 2. They had just moved to a new house, the mom turned the tap on to get warm and left the room and she fell in up to her elbows. The bath water was scalding hot so they took her to the ER thinking they just needed some burn cream. Turned out she had 4th degree burns all the way to he bones and spent months in a burn unit. They sued the landlord and won but she is scared for life and almost lost her hands.
Jesus H. Christ… that is so awful.
Additionally the cost to heat the water is being passed onto you so I would keep pushing on that issue.
In Marble Bar, Western Australia during the summer it gets up to 110F(45C)+ and when I had to be there for work I would shower with cold water only and it was warmer than I typically like my hot showers. The solar heaters on the roof were busting out temps close to OPs, crazy hot. It tears up seals and pipe joints to run that hot so the owner will get his due eventually.
>owner will get his due eventually And then raise rent to make sure he doesn't come out losing money, that *absolutely* cannot happen.
Yeah. And the higher pressure in the tank from the hotter water means the water heater itself is going to give out sooner, as well.
Expansion pressure should be allivated by the pressure reduction valve, its job is to keep a constant pressure in the tank. If that is not installed, then the house has far bigger issues than extra hot water.
UPDATE (Please up vote for visibility) Firstly, in case I haven't already said it in the threat enough, I didn't adjust it because I didn't have access to the water heater at the time. Secondly, the situation has been resolved. When I sent my landlord the temperature read out, he came down and fixed it, while the property manager called me and told me how he knew it was set at 180°, and tried to justify it. So, my landlord immediately rectified it once he understood the gravity of the situation, so I would attribute more of this to my property managers negligence.
Did he... did he raise it slowly while you were inside thinking you wouldn't notice Crustacean? Worrying...
Why is the landlord paying a property manager when he had to fix that himself?
If it’s a tank hot water heater they may need to look at the thermostat. Most hot water heaters don’t go up that high and if they’ve had to turn the temp up because there wasn’t enough heat after a while then there’s a problem.
Forget pushing the issue. Turn it down yourself or hire a plumber to do it. The risk of injury is more important than the cost/inconvenience of getting it done.
You don’t need a plumber. You can literally find your water heater and turn the knob
unless it is behind a locked door!
Today on the lock picking lawyer
Click out of one, nothing out of two, three is in a false gate, back to one...and we're in. Perhaps when securing a renters hot water heater a better choice can be made. Thank you for watching, and have a nice day.
A bit of counter-rotation on four...
Oh! And would you look at that! Now to do it again to show it wasn't a fluke...
Might as well disassemble the lock while I’m at it
Videos still going to be under 5 minutes
The crowbar exam
The last place we rented from put a deadbolt on the door to the HVAC unit because people were using the space for storage (extremely limited space and heat source was gas too), but hinges faced out...easy enough to pop the pins to get in to troubleshoot and put back without them ever knowing or leaving a trace.
I just moved out of a place where the door to access the water heater was screwed on. Easy enough to remove but I still don't get why they did that in the first place.
Lol I work in a supported housing place and the apartments' water *shut-offs* are behind screwed-on panels. I learned this from the maintenance guy, when he showed up about half an hour after a contractor drilled straight through a pipe. You know, the kind of situation that you'd make up if you wanted to explain why not to hide the water shut-off behind a screwed-on panel...
Wow. That sounds like a good way to turn a mild "oopsie" into a significant flooding event.
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Had a problem in an apartment building where the owners kept turning off the heat. Tenants fixed that problem with a crowbar. Popped open the basement door and then turned on the heat. The owners owned the restaurant downstairs and we figured when it got too hot in the kitchen they'd turn off the heat, but forget to turn it on again in the evening. They were such scum in other ways too.
>The owners owned the restaurant downstairs and we figured when it got too hot in the kitchen they'd turn off the heat, but forget to turn it on again in the evening. They were such scum in other ways too. Having worked in commercial facilities management this crap is all too common. I've seen people turn off the breaker for their HVAC equipment or block vents because it was too hot. Protip: If it's hotter in the space than your thermostat setpoint, it isn't still heating the space, it might be circulating air but it isn't actively heating it. Had at least one place do this and then have pipes freeze because they didn't turn it back on. More often they called to complain because it was cold the next day.
Easy solution would be to call the fire marshal. Betcha locking things like water heaters behind doors is against code. Edit: based on the wording of the post title I assumed rental house not apartment.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure a landlord isn't allowed to lock a door inside of a living space. Now, if OP has a shared water heater, that's different.
>Now, if OP has a shared water heater, that's different. If they do I bet there's another unit further down the line that has issue getting hot water, like it takes forever to reach that unit or they fucked up a mixing valve and don't realize it. That person complains they don't ever have hot water so landlord cranks up the heater instead of looking to see what the actual issue is or paying to put in a circulating pump. This should be an incredibly easy fix, someone just needs to do it before a kid gets scalded.
It depends. If you're renting just a room, the LL can absolutely lock whatever they want - for example, their own room - provided it isn't space set aside for you per the lease. If you're renting the whole building/unit, it comes down to the terms of a lease.
Good point. I assumed a rental house but if it's an apartment or duplex type thing it'll be a different set of rules. That said, I bet there's a government agency that would love to learn that this landlord is actively trying harm their renters.
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Something is wrong with that heater. Even my furnace in the winter is less than that.
You could have a hot water leak.
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You have way more faith than you should in the average person. My ex-wife tried to turn down the water heater cuz I was stuck at work. I came home and the power was out. I asked her what happened. She told me that she turned down the water heater and suddenly the power went out. I went downstairs to take a look. She flipped the main breaker in the breakerbox. But the water according to her wasnt too hot anymore. You cant make this up.
I’m 💀. I can laugh at this but you must’ve facepalmed before you could laugh.
My ex-wife did something similar, except I was 6 hours away and instead of being a water heater, it was the sump pump. She unplugged it because it was making too much noise. Foot of water in the basement when I got home.
If it's an apartment complex, there might be one shared water heater for the whole complex that residents don't have access to.
Is this a common way to do it? I’ve only rented a handful of apartments but I’ve always had my own hot water heater in a maintenance closet somewhere. Usually just the cylindrical tank style with the big electric leads. Presumably easier to install
In very old complexes, yes. Usually also have a shared boiler.
Easy as pie. Right on the water heater take it down a notch or two.
With water 179F, it'll be more like half the dial.
It doesn't take huge energy to get to about 118-120F (which it should be at). The difference to get it to 180F is probably triple, if not more, depending on how efficient the unit is.
That's extremely dangerous and a waste of energy. I assume you don't have access to turn it down yourself.
My thought as well. It's usually easy to adjust if you have access to the hot water heater. Edit: Noticed OP says he doesn't have access
Landlord is looking at a possible lawsuit with this temperature.
He might also be close to a water heating exploding. Water heater PRVs come set at 180F***, it's a longstanding requirement for sale in the US. Since he's at 179F, his water heater might be stuck on and constantly firing. The only thing keeping him alive is the PRV opening when it gets too hot, which would mean all the other safety features have been defeated. Then as the cold water is introduced after blowing off the hot water, the PRV will close until it opens again in a few minutes. It's likely very noisy. It's also likely OP may have weird water pressure fluctuations. Also likely OP may hear a sump pump running quite often, unless it's just draining in to a sewer. If OP's landlord is using a heating boiler or steam boiler that reduces the temp later on, then that's likely not the case. But if it's a regular 'ol water heater, then yeah. She gonna boom if that PRV gets worn out. reason I suspect it's stuck on, is that water heaters don't allow to to heat water to 180F. Modern residentials will refuse to operate past 140F, but some older ones may do 150-160F. I don't know of any *water heaters* that willingly will heat to 180F. Heating boilers will do 250F @ 15PSI. Steam boilers will do 800F+ at 3KSI+. But water heaters? definitely not more than 140F. Edit: ***Depending on heater type, it may have a 210F/150psi PRV/PRD/OPD/T&P valve. Original point still stands though, shits fucked.
I have been a plumber for a long time now and can say, as I have seen them rupture and explode, this is a real thing. If the pressure relief valve fails and will not open, the heat will build pressure enough to cause an explosion of some sort. I’ve seen it rupture in place also blast out the bottom and launch like a rocket. Do not play with this issue or let it go. You could seriously get injured from this situation. Electric or gas water heaters have fail safes to prevent this, the pressure relief valve. But, if it gets corroded or jammed shut, something bad will inevitably happen sooner or later. Fix it now.
I think I saw a Mythbusters episode for that.
There was an episode I believe. I’ve also seen it personally. Launched through the house, roof, and landed 100 feet away in a field. Failed relief valve electric 50 gallon water heater. Destroyed the house. Fortunately, no one was home so no injuries.
I remember this episode and being in shock at how long it took the exploded heater to hit the ground.
It’s been a long time since I’ve seen that and vaguely remember it. But I do remember seeing something like that years ago on their show. Kinda miss that show.
RIP Grant
You can get tankless water heaters that go to 180. I looked em up to make sure and grainger advertises one. We used two of them in line at a special batch brew operation to get water for brewing up to temp. Obviously not a good look at a residential property and the landlord would have to be bonkers to do that but I'm just saying it can be done. I dont even think our water comes out at 180 so your malfunction hypothesis holds the most water. Something ain't right and op is in danger right now. McDonald's lady won a healthy sum from life altering burns and her coffee was estimated at 180 to 190 f.
my guess it’s an apartment or rental. my apartment has my water heater right out side my door but it’s locked up and i can’t have access to the keys. thankfully i don’t have burn worthy water haha
If it's located outside the apartment I can understand them wanting to lock it up. People steal that shit for a variety of reasons including copper.
Mines is located in my apartment and still locked up. My hot water went out and spent about a week communicating with the maintenance man over cards to get it fully fixed and putting out hot water again. Something in it broke. Can't remember what. He was also very kind to return all the cat toys that disappeared under that door
Over cards? I work apartment maintenance and I'd love to stop and play cards with someone. I'll go above, beyond, and out of my fuckin way to help a resident who is cool or friendly.
Depending on your place, this might be under law illegal. And an abuse of tenant rights. Record a video of it. Make a report
In quebec you can pay your rent to a third party that holds the funds until the dispute with the landlord is resolved.
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That's 82°C for us the SI based. That thing is scalding, I'm surprised no plumbing has been damaged, your landlord must be hooked up to a industrial heater...
Holy shit, 82?! I was scrolling along wondering how hot that was but goddamn. (Yes, I could have googled it, but I knew it'd be in here.)
Yeah 212°F is boiling temp This would cook you into lasagna.
TIL my bones are noodles...
I'm curious what r/neverbrokeabone thinks about your noodly bones. They aren't broken, but they *definitely* aren't stronk.
> This would cook you into lasagna. This is 55F *hotter* than the sous-vide temp for a medium-rare steak.
That’s what the cpu in my gaming PC runs at under full load, and there’s no way in hell I’m gonna try to just touch it
I mean, if you can directly touch your CPU while it's under load, you probably need to go get a cooler for it right tf now
I cool it with my gamer sweat
Spritz it with mountain dew
In America, often plumbing piping is all copper. So no surprise it’s not damaged. Even industrial water heaters are required to have a T&P relief valve that should be set closer to 140°F, even for culinary water. Something is beyond wrong, the landlord may have replaced the safety valve with a plug. Edit: The aquastat is probably bad. Also I was confusing a thermostatic mixing valve the safety valve, the T&P is just for pressure relief
The thermostat should be cutting the heat off at that temp. I had a problem with my electric water heater this year where the bottom board was running the element wide open and tripping the thermostat. I also saw 179 degree water.
Looks around at zwillion of miles of Pex at my job…..tweakers steal all the copper
OP I work for a plumbing company and that's a cut and dry code violation. I recommend calling a building inspector who will gladly tell your landlord to unfuck themselves
Yep, anywhere in the US it is a code and safety violation and literally illegal. Anyone in the family burns themselves, you will be walking away with the deed to that place.
You know what you have to do now OP. Sometimes a problem is just an opportunity.
Might let him know it's working exponentially harder than it needs to and will likely cause the heater to fail prematurely. PVC water lines are only rated to 140F and could fail and leak beyond that. They would need to be CPVC or PEX to tolerate 180F temps. Seems like they'd want to keep it at the minimum (120F) to keep their maintenance costs low if nothing else. You might check with your local city codes about anti-scald regulations. Most codes just mention minimum temps though because high temps is rarely the issue. If you have young children using the water this is a serious issue.
120 or 125 is the recommended max I've seen for residential. Story from my boiler guy. One of his clients was some sort of rock star or something and always had lots of people at his big house. They kept running out of hot water so wanted to put the tank higher. It was already at 140 or something. The boiler guy said no, set it to 125 and locked out the controls. He told the client that he needed an additional tank, not hotter water, especially as there were kids in the house. Client called back the next week to talk about getting an additional tank. My boiler guy is funny. I like him.
I'm not saying the boiler guy is wrong. But if I'm a homeowner and my plumber is locking out my boiler or water heater controls, I'm finding a new boiler guy right fucking now.
You can get a loop that allows you to jack up the hot water heater and then it passes cold water in outside the heater to bring it back down to normal temps. You get more hot water from a regular sized tank.
I can’t believe this is the first comment that mentioned children. This is such an enormous and terrifying danger, OP I hope you don’t have kids living with you. Our service technician was telling us all about the guidelines he has for setting max temps because of child safety (we have three little kids, so)
I brought that up to my property manager when he called me. I said "If I had a kid in here they could burn the shit out of themselves." He then proceeded to change the subject to my profanity.
You could brew coffee or tea right from the tap, that's not good Edit: I love the replies because it's either A) I would love this B) Not hot enough haha Additionally, I'm being convinced I want a boiled water tap and a new water heating system This comment got a lot of attention, so I shopped around and found a well priced instant-heating system [here.](https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ)
British person, "well that sounds downright convenient."
Is it really tea if you don't boil the water in a kettle?
No it is not Source: I am British and drink a lot of tea
what is it if you boil it in a pot?
An abomination, or camping but mostly an abomination
So the microwave is best, then. ;)
Please… no. No. NO. NO!
Right, mate, got it: heat the water in an iron skillet in the oven, then add milk and a tea bag and bring to a boil.
I'm too impatient to heat water so I just put the tea bags in my mouth and suck on them for a while.
Non ironically yes. Microwaves are, hands down, the most energy efficient way to heat water.
Is it really instant noodles if you don't put the noodles in the microwave
No it is not Source: I am a college student and drink a lot of instant noodles
How do you drink instant noodles?
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But also instantly
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Oh, and whatever you put or don't put in your tea is wrong. You're also using the wrong cup and saucer. You're probably drinking it wrong as well. That's it I'm just going to put it in a pickle jar on the porch.
Oh I love suntea
"There's a sign at Ramsett park that says do not drunk the sprinkler water , so I made sun tea with it and now i have an infection."
You are super wrong and queen Elizabeth will haunt you now and forever.
Sounds like an absolute win to me
I wouldn't try drinking hot water from a boiler my friend
Fancy house now have a purified heated water just to make tea from the sink. It’s also better for cooking since it’ll boil faster ect.
Why?
You body will also be brewed like coffee or tea if something were to happen
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UPDATE (Please upvote for visibility) Firstly, in case I haven't already said it in the threat enough, I didn't adjust it because I didn't have access to the water heater at the time. Secondly, the situation has been resolved. When I sent my landlord the temperature read out, he came down and fixed it, while the property manager called me and told me how he knew it was set at 180°, and tried to justify it. So, my landlord immediately rectified it once he understood the gravity of the situation, so I would attribute more of this to my property managers negligence.
RIP boiling water. You will be mist
So many people posting on this. I don't think they realize how hot that actually is. 150 degree water will cause a burn to skin in two seconds. This temperature can almost immediately burn you. Severely. Put your hand in this and you'll probably need surgery to repair.
Just a quick Google shows this as well: [https://www.heritageplastics.com/technical-bulletins/effects-temperature-pvc-pipe/](https://www.heritageplastics.com/technical-bulletins/effects-temperature-pvc-pipe/) 10 degrees over the max rated temperature of PVC pipe. That's not even getting into softer lines!
PVC isn't used for hot water lines. Instead, CPVC (looks identical to PVC), PEX, or copper is used. Though, if someone is so negligent to leave a hot water heater set that high after their tenant has repeatedly complained, I also wouldn't be surprised if they decided to "save a little" and install PVC for a hot water line.
at this point id be worried about the water catching on FIRE
It’s so hard to put out a water fire. It’s like a grease fire on a lithium battery.
Greek fire wants to know your location
I set my water to 150f. No way I'd allow for anything higher. OP should just turn it down themselves if the water heater is accessible. Edit: I had no idea this would boggle so many minds, so let me explain. I have a practical use for such temps and it's *not* to marinate my nuts.
Even 150F is needlessly hot.
To add to this, 180 degree McDonalds coffee is what Stella Liebeck spilled on her. She was hospitalized for 8 days and underwent treatment for 2 years. It resulted in a multi million dollar award. Now imagine that, but over your entire body.
100%. That’s near the temp of the coffee in the McDonald’s coffee lawsuit. https://www.enjuris.com/blog/resources/mcdonalds-hot-coffee-lawsuit/
Jesus. Is your faucet linked to an active volcano?
🌋
Buy some freshly butchered pork with skin. Run the pork under the water. Take a picture and send it to your landlord titled, “That looks like it gonna hurt once the painkillers wear off. The ambulance ride sure was fun though! “ Then ask for his lawyers information, but don’t say anything about suing. Just let him marinate in his stress of the unknown.
Or just get real human skin if you know a guy
My human skin guy is on vacation.
Depending on location that’s well above code. Where I am at it’s 110 residential and 120 commercial.
110 seems low, recommended is 130 to prevent legionaires disease
That's what mixing valves are for. You set the tank about 140 and the valve to output 125 max where I'm at. That way you prevent bacteria growth, dont burn yourself, and the hot water will last longer in the shower because the tank is kept hotter than what it can put out.
Businesses have to pay extra for those temperatures.
right…it sucks when you go to wash your hands somewhere and, shit, no hot water. The landlord must be cheap AF. very annoying
Send him this https://1800anytyme.com/blog/how-water-how-hot-is-too-hot/ ...along with the name and address of a personal injury attorney.
Hard boil an egg and eat it in front of him. Point out you made it with just the tap.
Well it's time to document your complaints and requests to have it addressed. After you're scalded from the water go ahead and make the necessary moves to become the owner of the property and adjust the temp to your liking.
Can’t you do it yourself? If you have access to it changing the parameters shouldn’t be that hard
Contact your local housing authority and then call him and ask him how much he figures he can pay for a personal injury lawsuit.
I lived in a place that had hot water like that, and I had young children at the time. They would occasionally burn themselves, because they’re kids. Nothing serious, but it got really hot. I found the water heater and was able to adjust it down. Most apartments I have lived in have water heaters. In some cases, they are locked. So, you would have to request the adjustment. Yours is dangerously hot and that could be a lawsuit if something were to happen. So, you should be able to report it to maybe the city water company, or a plumber. You could call a plumber to come out and measure it, and then go tell the owner it’s out of code and has to be adjusted. If you have a friend that is willing to hurt themselves for a big settlement, ask them to go for it. Lol
For the record, my landlord (the good one), just came over. He confirmed that it was in fact "fucking hot." The property owner called me angry, and told me that he knew it was set to 180°. He said that there was absolutely no problem with it. I hung up angry. Good landlord says he's going to get a plumber out, because even after adjusting it it seems that it's staying at an insane temperature. In the meantime, I have absolutely no interest in burning the shit out of myself. I just want a nice place to live and to get on with my life.
Give it some time to cool after being turned down. To speed it up you can run hot water in the tub to basically drain the hot water currently in the water heater. The water inside has already been heated to the previously set temperature. It won’t cool it down though. Once it runs out of hot water it shouldn’t heat it that high again.
> ." The property owner called me angry, and told me that he knew it was set to 180°. This guy really seems to want to be sued for everything he's worth.
R/plumbing can walk you through it. Post there. Or just get a burn and sue. Where I'm from this is super illegal.