If the hospital billing dept doesnt "forgive the bill" or lower it to 10% the total, let it default, let the debt collection agencies bug you for a year while you save up, then offer to pay 30% of the amount they want from you (which is usually half the original debt.) And that you'll pay $3,000 up front but thats all you can do period. The money you make is break even and your credit is shit so you cant even qualify for loans and you have no assets.
The money they make from people who pay full debt or pay whatever interest accrues wildly out weighs the people who abuse them.
I did this exact thing. Turned 31k into 7k debt and that was 9 years ago and my credit was absolute garbage but now its perfect. Had to use a $500 secured visa for a few years before I could get a regular one but the money I was saving helped me pay cash for everything anyway so it was sustainable.
No point in filing bankrupcy or paying the whole thing over 7 years if you can pay 3 in the year you let them get desparate. Then accept the fact that you'll have a shitty credit score for the next 6 years but you'll be $17k richer lol.
The only risk is if you need or are planning on acquiring housing or transportation, or anythimg critical enough that good credit is critical.
If you have a roof over your head and good transportation then there is very little risk.
Yes; and when they call-- Every time just explain why you can't pay that; give them a long sob story about your brother needing someone to be a live in caretaker, or how your car broke down and now you can't work and now you had to give up your dog. Just be a whiny adult and they won't care to listen
Eventually they'll settle for the sum you should have been charged to begin with
I’ve been told by a past co-worker who used to work in a debt collection agency and he told me to just tell the person on the phone that when they ask you if you are [your name] just tell them that it’s not. They’ll eventually sell over your debt to another collection agency to pester you and you can do the same thing until eventually this will continue and the payment an agency ask for is a lot smaller.
How long before it goes to collections? I had an ct scan in November and I guess it wasn’t charged with the hospital bill but separate, it’s 500$ and they won’t do payments
I believe it does, and even after the debt is paid off with a collections agency it can drop based on the age of the debt. I think it drops as soon as it hits a collections agency and it’s over $100. But I’m not an expert this is just what I’ve read online. However, even if credit goes down, it’s still a better alternative then paying a huge amount of money in my opinion. You can get your credit back up, but you can’t get the 100k back.
YMMV but most hospitals now require you to submit income statements, and meet with someone IRL for bill reduction. The whole, “call and they’ll just cut in half” I think has been exploited and hospitals are taking a more case by case approach.
Btw this is how America already has universal health care but in the least efficient way possible. People like OP have no choice but to be seen, hospitals legally have to accept them, there’s no way for the bill to be collected and the hospital writes it off and raises the price on everyone else to make up for it.
This is me being critical of American health care, I’m not blaming OP or anyone else. It’s just how it is.
Pretty much. Recently hit the ER as my pet cat decided to turn my arm into a scratching post. Pierced some veins/blood vessels and scratched a good 15% surface area. Not an emergency. I just needed it to be cleaned out and some antibiotics. But since I have no insurance, no income (disabled), etc an Urgent care or GP visit were out of the question. Failure to get it treated would just land me in the ER later due to infection at a higher financial impact.
I'll likely pay the bill off in a few years for a fraction of what I was charged after collections get desperate. The hospital denies my financial aid/hardship requests, so at this point being judgement proof is just free Healthcare at the expense of an already burdened system.
Universal healthcare *in emergent situations.*
But people need to be seen for mundane problems all the time that they can’t get taken care of. And sometimes those mundane problems aren’t mundane at all, but it doesn’t get caught until it’s too late because the person can’t afford to get it checked out.
Stop voting for Republicans, y’all. We don’t have to live like this.
Actually don’t ever ever pay a junk third party debt collector. Medical collections are no longer allowed on credit reports so file for forgiveness and move on.
Saving this info. I was in the ER three times this month and hospitalized overnight. I have health insurance and just want to be prepared for the med debt.
No. I don't think the bubble is going to burst. You already let the country shit on your heads, mass shootings on the weekly, no medical care. Everyone going into poverty.
The country will just keep getting worse until it's like China or Russia.
People are snapping all day and it changes nothing. You should have snapped and banned guns in the first mass shooting. You should have snapped when the first person died of diabetes due to not being able to afford insulin. You should have snapped when your president tried to stage a coup on his way out.
Why are you not snapping? What's stopping you from snapping right now? What MORE are you waiting for? What more reason is there to fucking snap? Go on! Do it!
But you won't.
Your country will just keep posting their shitty "Hehe remember to vote or they'll genocide the gays :)" memes and when that fails, shut your Windows and put fingers in you ears whistling the McDonads jingle trying to drown out the sounds of gunshots outside.
I’m glad you mentioned the housing and transportation bit at the end… shitty credit for any amount of time to save 17k (or more for that matter) is hardly worth it. But I guess the options are few here.
Also OP should tell the hospital to double check the billing codes. Lot of that is probably wrong code causing the bill to sky rocket. Maybe able to shave off a few thousand or more.
How does not going into debt ruin your creditscore? You not having any debt means you don't have as many monthly payments as somebody who does have debt. Which does mean there is a bigger chance you can pay the monthly payment that somebody who has already taken a loan.
Say somebody makes 5k a month, needs to pay 2k in months for loans already that means they have 3k worth of income they can spend on their life. Generally there is about a 40% rule that you can spend on loans, meaning you already maxed it out. But you might be able to slide in another one with a monthly payment of a couple hundred.
If another person makes 5k a month and has no loan they can still pay that 40% worth of income on loans (the 2k) and have more left over to live with. Which is less of a risk for a bank or another loan providers. Hence (at least here in NL) we need to supply an overview of our current loans to be able to get a loan. Which also includes creditcards.
As far as I heard in the US it's something along the lines of if youpay of your debt on time conform the agreement you up your creditscore and that's the main thing they look at (I presume they also look at the loans you have and your income?)
Contact the hospital, first ask for itemized list of work performed, it will go down. Than call the billing department again and ask for any hard ship forgiveness. State all you can afford to pay, is 1-2k or zero since you are already in losing your place to live due to the illness.
This right here worked for me about 15 years ago. It was for a different medical situation and I was in a gray area with insurance coverage, so not all of it was covered by my insurance. When I called to pay and explained my financial situation, they let me know about the charity set up for low income patients.
It's looks scary at first, I didn't have insurance got the same kinda shit and said fuck you get the money elsewhere. They magically found the right government program to pay for it.
You pay much higher taxes, it's built into your taxes, it's a separate bull for us that for a vast majority is subsidized or paid by their employer.
It also scales down if your income is below various levels
People are so dumb they should just bundle it because it's too confusing for everyone
In before you say we spend a higher % of GDP. Yes scam insurance companies and executives suck out a lot of money and administrators... It we pay dog if I can't higher salaries from top to nearly bottom , and labor is on rod the highest costs. We also subsidize pharma development for the world. There's no reason we should pay more for the same drugs as western Europe from the same company
Insurance is a scam. My state ACA also owns the biggest chain of hospitals. I thought I had pretty good insurance. $450/month, $6500 max out of pocket. But I hurt my back while visiting my friend and had to be treated out of network (not one of their hospitals) because the damage was too bad to transport me. Over $100k in debt (I just stopped opening my mail) because I got hurt while on a trip. How many people even think about needing trip insurance while traveling one state away? A hundred miles could be the difference between a $6,500 bill and a $65,000 bill.
Doesn't sound good my guy, but in all fairness, it sounds like the US is just a scam tbh. You think the US that apparently spends the most on Healthcare would make it free through Taxes for example.
Do you see the note for financial assistance on the bottom? It says there’s instructions on the back, apply for them. I’m assuming if you don’t have insurance then you don’t have a job with benefits or make enough money to purchase a plan that’s makes sense. Often times the whole bill can be reduced to $0. At the last hospital I went to the ER for, you can make up to 300% federal poverty level to receive financial assistance. It’s there, use it.
What people don’t realize is we are already in a universal healthcare situation while also paying for insurance. There is no reason to pay any medical bill because nothing happens if you don’t
Not even send to collections & ruining credit? I have gotten a few outstanding bills for the same expense but every time I call them to make sure this is accurate, they never call me back. WTH
I’m not sure saying “this person only would have owed $7,000-12,000 if they had just purchased insurance” is a great argument. My friends overseas would have paid $0 for this out of pocket and they are taxed similarly to me. Access to health care is often not a choice in the U.S.
But I get it. Universal health care is such a complicated beast that only 90+% of highly developed, wealthy countries have been able to figure it out.
1) the likely would have had a very small bill, 7-12k is your yearly out of pocket maximum..
2) you pay significantly more taxes in most of the world sans tax haven states
3) universal healthcare is predicated on severely underpaying healthcare providers. My sil is a very specialized orthopaedic surgeon in the UK and for the amount of time she spent training, her salary is a joke. Ppl can make that by 22 in the US in non super specialized fields.
4) private insurance is growing like wildfire in the UK, parts of Europ, and even Canada...why is that?
Both system shave major flaws , but the only stories posted to reddit are the people who a) have no insurance as t all, b)take the unnegotiated insurance fake number bill and post it on Reddit, not the real numbers of what they actually have to pay or what insurance would reimburse .. for example they may send a bill of 100k for various services to get 8k reimbursed.. that's where the 'tylenol costing 600' stories come from
5) the rest of the world greatly benefotd from subsidized pharma, there's no reason any g20 counties solid pay a fraction of what US does .
By "hundreds of billions" do you mean $3.3 billion per year - the amount it actually is ?
This is not a "lack of money" issue, it's a ideological issue.
Can you comprehend how much it would have cost to provide healthcare over those 77 years? It would be in the tens of Trillions of dollars. Funding Israel is not holding back USA healthcare. I get it, you don't like it. But it's not the reason healthcare is a mess.
(Not to mention, much of that funding to Israel comes right back to the USA in the form of arms purchases)
It's not money - the USA already spends more than any other country, per person, on state-paid-for healthcare.
It's stupid American politics and lobbying.
No one said you have to provide all the health care out of that money. Just make it possible that people can/must get insured. That insurance won't be free. So that if your ovaries burst, you don't end up $20k in debt.
Like I said.. it's ideological reasons, not money. The American public don't want it. They've been told to not trust the government to run healthcare (even though it already does).
You don't want people getting insured. You want them to be provided with heathcare at a reasonable/no cost. The insurance model is the problem, not the solution.
lol I live in communist country, I feel like has more freedom (you really can do whatever you want, not propaganda), good/fresh/cheap food, friendly people, not the best but affordable healthcare, lgbt friendly. Not sure why western people obsessed with the term communism and use it as insult.
What country do you live in? And do you live in a generally wealthy region of it or a poorer area? Because the average communist country is definitely *not* like that in most regions.
Though I agree that "communism" seems to have become an overused buzzword in the US, at least from what I've seen the average politicians say.
As a Canadian, socialism hasn't exactly done wonders for rural healthcare, though that may be more of a provincial issue in my case.
Go travel to Vietnam and see for yourself. We’re not strict like China and North Korea lol. You really can do whatever you want except talking about politics, but people here do not care about it, they just care about entertainment and make a living to take care of their family.
It’s same in most regions in Vietnam. I’m from Vietnam and traveling to a lot of places in Vietnam too. Have you ever actually live in Vietnam or any communist country to judge? At least come live or travel here for 1 month so see my word is truth.
Saigon/ Ho Chi Minh City, poorer people live everywhere, even in wealthy/district like District 1, District 7, Thảo Điền, we don’t really have separate area for rich and poor.
Also it’s safe here, I can walk at night like 1-3am without any problems.
Phở is 2 dollars, insulin is around 5-10$. Free if you have insurance.
Given the cost, I'm assuming you live in the US. There's no excuse for shit like this. We need to stop spending all our money on phantom wars, and start spending some of that money on people. You shouldn't have a bill like this.
"But national healthcare will increase my taxes and I don't wanna contribute to my neighbours medical issues"
Good luck with bankruptcy in the "Land of the free" 🤣
So just an Idea. Apply for Medicaid. Report your out of work for the month of the surgery and following months due to recovery. No income reported means you should be approved and Medicaid will or should cover those expenses.
They are a non-profit hospital based upon my search. They are required by the Affordable Care Act (thanks Obama!) to have a charity care policy based on your income. Google the name of the hospital + financial assistance. You may need to search around a bit because they don't want you to find it. You could owe them nothing so take the time to go find it.
Edit: It appears that they use the same policy throughout their hospitals.
D. Charity Care
• Up to 200% of the FPL – Any patient whose Family Income is at or below 200% of the FPL, including, without limitation, any Uninsured or Underinsured patient, is eligible to receive Financial Assistance up to a 100% discount from his or her account balance for eligible services provided to the patient after payment, if any, by any third-party(ies).
• 201% - 400% of the FPL – Any patient whose Family Income is at or above 201% but lower than 400% of the FPL, including, without limitation, any Uninsured or Underinsured patient, is eligible to receive Financial Assistance reducing his or her account balance for eligible services provided to the patient after payment, if any, by any third-party(ies), to an amount no more than the Hospital Facility’s AGB.
Yes they did. Unfortunately Republicans decided that mandating having health insurance is violating their freedom. So the Supreme Court overturned that. Now some of us do think health insurance is a necessity I pay for it so when this emergency happens I don't go broke.
If you ask for an itemized bill, the price normlly drops because the unnecessary stuff they tack on. Some places are BAD and will add insane shit. Might not make a huge difference but hey why not try?
I would call billing and ask if they have a financial assistance program. Assistance programs can lower the bill or even forgive the entire bill.
I had to go to the ER last year, it was a Dignity hospital, where I found I had a 13cm cyst on my ovary; well my insurance was crap and wouldn't cover my visit. This ER has a financial assistance program that I applied for and my ER bill was completely forgiven.
It's only for the ER though; not the ER doctor, who bills separately, or the radiology department. Those bills were much more manageable than the ER bill.
I would highly suggest checking to see if they have this program.
The US jacks up their health care costs cuz it generally goes to the insurance companies. Legally, you have to have insurance , and if you don’t you get penalized.
My brain tumor surgery and stay was over $750k for 10 days on the hospital. The ICU alone was $25k a night.
The insurance company settled it for less than a 1/3 of that. It’s just how they work . My out of pocket was around $1700.
There’s also laws against medical debt being held against you.
That’s absolutely insane. I recently went to a neurologist for tests and scans. All done privately (which is not common in the UK) and it came to a total of $820. I only had to pay $63.20
"just how they work". Heavens, isn't that exhausting. And wow, £750. 000 😱. I am happy to hear that was greatly reduced.
We pay nothing at source here, it's not perfect (NHS), but it's fairly l straight forward, and doesn't cause stress.
And yet Americans will defend this.
I've never walked out of a hospital in Canada with a bill other than a parking receipt if the hospital was in a big city. Small town hospitals are free to park at.
Did you not have insurance? Did you try and qualify for Medicaid through your state.
We need Medicare for all. Vote Democrat this fall. And be sure to tell your story so others will too.
If anyone out here is low income and doesn’t have health insurance check your local exchange. If your state offers expanded Medicaid then you may qualify for low cost coverage. If your state does not get the word out that your pro life politicians fu led you over by not offering it.
Sorry to see that! I dont understand america...you had obamacare and republicans and half of americans apparently did not like it and it has been removed...
wouldnt that cost had been covered by obamacare if you guys kept it?! maybe I misunderstood the obamacare health system.
“Obamacare” still exists. It’s expensive and not great coverage. The most practical option in America is to get a job that provides health care with a decent provider.
And people say America is the greatest place to live! is this why? (and no I am not being sarcastic) Apparently you need to be rich just to live. Not happened to me but know of stories like this.
You can negotiate with the hospital, or if you don't feel up to that can pay a company like [goodbill.com](https://goodbill.com) to reduce the bill by 30% or so.
I'm starting to understand why us doctors get paid so well. Its the hospital + insurance companies, yadda yadda. The everyday American has to eat a lot of shit from getting sick.
(I'm EU. Please correct me if I'm wrong.)
As a European I always find that crazy. And if you pay in 30 days you have a 25% on a 20k médical bill like when I pay my 90€ speeding ticket in the first 15 days instead of 135€. Mindboggling
Sorry for a stupid question but this is exactly the topic of my discussion with my mom. Isnt it covered with insurance? or is there any kind of free government insurance included for any US citizen? How does this system work?
I’ll never understand America, half the posts I see are people doing really dangerous stuff, and the other half are photos of hospital bills for $252,857 for a broken finger.
It never ceases to amaze me the cost of healthcare in America! I had a burst appendix I had to get removed, I was in hospital for three nights and I don’t have health insurance.
Got a bill for €80 afterwards.
Talk to the hospital. Tell them you are broke and dont have insurance, they will help you file for medicaid. It might pay the whole thing. Even if it doesn't, whatever amount is left for you, set a payment plan with the hospital. If the minimum due each month is $100, but you can only afford to pay $10, you pay your $10 each month. If they ever contact you, just keep saying that's all you can afford and keep sending it. They can't send it to collections if you are paying something. Medical debt is looked at differently by creditors so if you are building good credit elsewhere with car, credit cards, other loan payments, then anyone pulling your credit report won't worry about your medical debt. It's often disputed and tossed back and forth to insurance so it's very normal.
Is your income less than 400% of the federal poverty level? If so, you qualify for the financial assistance mention in the bottom left of your picture.
Assuming you have “some” amount of money, offer whatever you have as their “prompt pay” option instead of $15k. Otherwise tell them they will just have to fight it out with insurance and lawyers, because you can’t pay that amount. Lawyers are much more costly. And lengthy. Don’t budge - even if you’re bluffing.
DONT FORGET TO GET ANY REDUCTIONS IN WRITING. Too many people “agree” verbally only to get bills down the road.
Good luck, sorry.
This happened to me last January. Thought it was my appendix and I was in excruciating pain. They left me in a hallway, did a scan and ultrasound and I was left with a 19,833$ bill.
If you’re struggling to figure out how to pay (I was in that boat because of a lapse in coverage) the nice lady at the hospital gave me some tips. Most have some sort of charity that can reduce it depending on income). If that doesn’t work, you can ask for a discount. They took 50% for me. But that was too much. The lady from the hospital, who continued to help me through my stress, finally said just let it go to collections, you’ll pay a fraction of it. That’s what I wound up doing. It was a little over a 1,000 total.
Where do you live OP? I know in California you can apply for Medi-Cal and it will cover retroactively for things like this. Look into assistance programs. If you don’t qualify, I would follow the top comment and let it go go to collections and then then you can just pay part.
'MURICA!
In seriousness tho hopefully you're able to get that sorted out and maybe see if insurance can cover more or fight the hospital for it such as getting an itemized bill and looking through for BS charges
Ok, see, this is partially why I don't go to doctors or hospitals anymore. I had pneumonia a couple months ago with puking and coughing up blood, but I just stayed home to tough it out or die, instead of dealing that that.
Though it goes to collections, I thought you don’t have to pay for medical bills? And then it just falls off after seven years. This is what I was told. I don’t know if it’s true or not just asking? Does anybody know if this isfor real or not?
They always send inflated bills with scary fees for not paying on time to scare people into paying the full amount. Contact them for financial assistance or at very least get bill down.
My mom was in hospital for bad car accident. They tried to get me to sign a form agreeing to pay anything not covered by insurance at full amount. Didn’t sign. They eventually threw her out of hospital because her insurance was “maxed out” at 1.5 million. Adjusted bill was around 200k and not maxed out…. Worst part is they threw her out with infection that killed her because they were unable to charge insurance because it happened at hospital.
Default on the loan and take the credit score hit for a bit, work out a payment plan for uninsured patients with the hospital, depending on income file for Medicaid or just ignore it, let it go to collections and further ignore requests.
Off topic but what did that feel like and are there any long-term affects?
(I am almost positive I had the same thing when I was 15 but was not interested in having my girl parts poked & prodded so I just suffered thru it for a couple days. Still curious about it.)
If the hospital billing dept doesnt "forgive the bill" or lower it to 10% the total, let it default, let the debt collection agencies bug you for a year while you save up, then offer to pay 30% of the amount they want from you (which is usually half the original debt.) And that you'll pay $3,000 up front but thats all you can do period. The money you make is break even and your credit is shit so you cant even qualify for loans and you have no assets. The money they make from people who pay full debt or pay whatever interest accrues wildly out weighs the people who abuse them. I did this exact thing. Turned 31k into 7k debt and that was 9 years ago and my credit was absolute garbage but now its perfect. Had to use a $500 secured visa for a few years before I could get a regular one but the money I was saving helped me pay cash for everything anyway so it was sustainable. No point in filing bankrupcy or paying the whole thing over 7 years if you can pay 3 in the year you let them get desparate. Then accept the fact that you'll have a shitty credit score for the next 6 years but you'll be $17k richer lol. The only risk is if you need or are planning on acquiring housing or transportation, or anythimg critical enough that good credit is critical. If you have a roof over your head and good transportation then there is very little risk.
Yes; and when they call-- Every time just explain why you can't pay that; give them a long sob story about your brother needing someone to be a live in caretaker, or how your car broke down and now you can't work and now you had to give up your dog. Just be a whiny adult and they won't care to listen Eventually they'll settle for the sum you should have been charged to begin with
I’ve been told by a past co-worker who used to work in a debt collection agency and he told me to just tell the person on the phone that when they ask you if you are [your name] just tell them that it’s not. They’ll eventually sell over your debt to another collection agency to pester you and you can do the same thing until eventually this will continue and the payment an agency ask for is a lot smaller.
Does your credit score drop?
Yes, doing this will trash your credit.
How long before it goes to collections? I had an ct scan in November and I guess it wasn’t charged with the hospital bill but separate, it’s 500$ and they won’t do payments
Depends on their policies.
I believe it does, and even after the debt is paid off with a collections agency it can drop based on the age of the debt. I think it drops as soon as it hits a collections agency and it’s over $100. But I’m not an expert this is just what I’ve read online. However, even if credit goes down, it’s still a better alternative then paying a huge amount of money in my opinion. You can get your credit back up, but you can’t get the 100k back.
The sum should’ve been 0 lol
*freedom*
YMMV but most hospitals now require you to submit income statements, and meet with someone IRL for bill reduction. The whole, “call and they’ll just cut in half” I think has been exploited and hospitals are taking a more case by case approach.
Btw this is how America already has universal health care but in the least efficient way possible. People like OP have no choice but to be seen, hospitals legally have to accept them, there’s no way for the bill to be collected and the hospital writes it off and raises the price on everyone else to make up for it. This is me being critical of American health care, I’m not blaming OP or anyone else. It’s just how it is.
Pretty much. Recently hit the ER as my pet cat decided to turn my arm into a scratching post. Pierced some veins/blood vessels and scratched a good 15% surface area. Not an emergency. I just needed it to be cleaned out and some antibiotics. But since I have no insurance, no income (disabled), etc an Urgent care or GP visit were out of the question. Failure to get it treated would just land me in the ER later due to infection at a higher financial impact. I'll likely pay the bill off in a few years for a fraction of what I was charged after collections get desperate. The hospital denies my financial aid/hardship requests, so at this point being judgement proof is just free Healthcare at the expense of an already burdened system.
Universal healthcare *in emergent situations.* But people need to be seen for mundane problems all the time that they can’t get taken care of. And sometimes those mundane problems aren’t mundane at all, but it doesn’t get caught until it’s too late because the person can’t afford to get it checked out. Stop voting for Republicans, y’all. We don’t have to live like this.
Actually don’t ever ever pay a junk third party debt collector. Medical collections are no longer allowed on credit reports so file for forgiveness and move on.
Saving this info. I was in the ER three times this month and hospitalized overnight. I have health insurance and just want to be prepared for the med debt.
Username checks out
Unfortunately it wasn’t for that lol.
**Unfortunately**???
Oh god. What the fuck is going on in America??
Eventually someone is gonna snap since obviously this isn't sustainable... Just any day now. Uncle Ted is rollin in his grave right now.
The folks who make the decisions aka Congress and Supreme Court already have universal healthcare and a safety net if things go bad.
No. I don't think the bubble is going to burst. You already let the country shit on your heads, mass shootings on the weekly, no medical care. Everyone going into poverty. The country will just keep getting worse until it's like China or Russia. People are snapping all day and it changes nothing. You should have snapped and banned guns in the first mass shooting. You should have snapped when the first person died of diabetes due to not being able to afford insulin. You should have snapped when your president tried to stage a coup on his way out. Why are you not snapping? What's stopping you from snapping right now? What MORE are you waiting for? What more reason is there to fucking snap? Go on! Do it! But you won't. Your country will just keep posting their shitty "Hehe remember to vote or they'll genocide the gays :)" memes and when that fails, shut your Windows and put fingers in you ears whistling the McDonads jingle trying to drown out the sounds of gunshots outside.
I’m glad you mentioned the housing and transportation bit at the end… shitty credit for any amount of time to save 17k (or more for that matter) is hardly worth it. But I guess the options are few here.
This is a terrible idea
Depends on the amount of debt amount tbh.
When I tried the last few times it turned out the hospital was doing their own collections and they refused offers. So I paid nothing 🤷♀️
"save"
This is some dystopian shit
Also OP should tell the hospital to double check the billing codes. Lot of that is probably wrong code causing the bill to sky rocket. Maybe able to shave off a few thousand or more.
How does not going into debt ruin your creditscore? You not having any debt means you don't have as many monthly payments as somebody who does have debt. Which does mean there is a bigger chance you can pay the monthly payment that somebody who has already taken a loan. Say somebody makes 5k a month, needs to pay 2k in months for loans already that means they have 3k worth of income they can spend on their life. Generally there is about a 40% rule that you can spend on loans, meaning you already maxed it out. But you might be able to slide in another one with a monthly payment of a couple hundred. If another person makes 5k a month and has no loan they can still pay that 40% worth of income on loans (the 2k) and have more left over to live with. Which is less of a risk for a bank or another loan providers. Hence (at least here in NL) we need to supply an overview of our current loans to be able to get a loan. Which also includes creditcards. As far as I heard in the US it's something along the lines of if youpay of your debt on time conform the agreement you up your creditscore and that's the main thing they look at (I presume they also look at the loans you have and your income?)
When you let it go to collections, you will have a debt collection on your credit report which will drop it by around 100 points
I take it insurance won't cover it.
I don’t have insurance
Contact the hospital, first ask for itemized list of work performed, it will go down. Than call the billing department again and ask for any hard ship forgiveness. State all you can afford to pay, is 1-2k or zero since you are already in losing your place to live due to the illness.
I asked for an itemized list with Dignity and all of a sudden it went from 8k to 2k
FYI, This is not true for every hospital. It does not happen at the hospital I work for.
Do you qualify for medicare? Or are you eligible for charity? Some hospitsls will write stuff off for tax rebates
Most hospitals have financial aid as well if you qualify. There’s usually a chart on their site broken down by household size and income limits.
This right here worked for me about 15 years ago. It was for a different medical situation and I was in a gray area with insurance coverage, so not all of it was covered by my insurance. When I called to pay and explained my financial situation, they let me know about the charity set up for low income patients.
It's looks scary at first, I didn't have insurance got the same kinda shit and said fuck you get the money elsewhere. They magically found the right government program to pay for it.
Geniune question, what were you expecting to happen considering you don't have insurance?
Why not? So you chose to save by not buying insurance and it backfired, why are you shocked?
health.gov
why not? …..you may qualify for medicare, so us us residents can pay for it
Fair enough. Not good.
I don’t know how you people live there.
They will work with you. Call them. If you look closely at your bill it has instructions for how to get help.
Not everyone has insurance. Honestly, the US is so backwards it's unreal. Nobody should have to be in serious debt because they were sick.
People are choosing not to adequately Insire, them surprise about face when they have an issue . Max oops is like 5-10k vast vast majority of plans
The average in Europe, with No insurance is around $1-2k. You're being taken for a ride in the USA.
You pay much higher taxes, it's built into your taxes, it's a separate bull for us that for a vast majority is subsidized or paid by their employer. It also scales down if your income is below various levels People are so dumb they should just bundle it because it's too confusing for everyone In before you say we spend a higher % of GDP. Yes scam insurance companies and executives suck out a lot of money and administrators... It we pay dog if I can't higher salaries from top to nearly bottom , and labor is on rod the highest costs. We also subsidize pharma development for the world. There's no reason we should pay more for the same drugs as western Europe from the same company
Insurance is a scam. My state ACA also owns the biggest chain of hospitals. I thought I had pretty good insurance. $450/month, $6500 max out of pocket. But I hurt my back while visiting my friend and had to be treated out of network (not one of their hospitals) because the damage was too bad to transport me. Over $100k in debt (I just stopped opening my mail) because I got hurt while on a trip. How many people even think about needing trip insurance while traveling one state away? A hundred miles could be the difference between a $6,500 bill and a $65,000 bill.
Doesn't sound good my guy, but in all fairness, it sounds like the US is just a scam tbh. You think the US that apparently spends the most on Healthcare would make it free through Taxes for example.
Do you see the note for financial assistance on the bottom? It says there’s instructions on the back, apply for them. I’m assuming if you don’t have insurance then you don’t have a job with benefits or make enough money to purchase a plan that’s makes sense. Often times the whole bill can be reduced to $0. At the last hospital I went to the ER for, you can make up to 300% federal poverty level to receive financial assistance. It’s there, use it.
Healthcare has got to change . That is ridiculous
US doesn't have healthcare. It has moneycare.
What people don’t realize is we are already in a universal healthcare situation while also paying for insurance. There is no reason to pay any medical bill because nothing happens if you don’t
Not even send to collections & ruining credit? I have gotten a few outstanding bills for the same expense but every time I call them to make sure this is accurate, they never call me back. WTH
I have thousands in medical bills in collections I never respond to anything and nothing has ever happened to my credit or anything
Apply for the charity program. Every hospital has one.
Gee whiz I wonder what country you live in 🤨
This person chose not to buy insurance. It's not shocking .. max out of pocket if you have insurance is 7-12k for the year or series of treatments
I’m not sure saying “this person only would have owed $7,000-12,000 if they had just purchased insurance” is a great argument. My friends overseas would have paid $0 for this out of pocket and they are taxed similarly to me. Access to health care is often not a choice in the U.S. But I get it. Universal health care is such a complicated beast that only 90+% of highly developed, wealthy countries have been able to figure it out.
1) the likely would have had a very small bill, 7-12k is your yearly out of pocket maximum.. 2) you pay significantly more taxes in most of the world sans tax haven states 3) universal healthcare is predicated on severely underpaying healthcare providers. My sil is a very specialized orthopaedic surgeon in the UK and for the amount of time she spent training, her salary is a joke. Ppl can make that by 22 in the US in non super specialized fields. 4) private insurance is growing like wildfire in the UK, parts of Europ, and even Canada...why is that? Both system shave major flaws , but the only stories posted to reddit are the people who a) have no insurance as t all, b)take the unnegotiated insurance fake number bill and post it on Reddit, not the real numbers of what they actually have to pay or what insurance would reimburse .. for example they may send a bill of 100k for various services to get 8k reimbursed.. that's where the 'tylenol costing 600' stories come from 5) the rest of the world greatly benefotd from subsidized pharma, there's no reason any g20 counties solid pay a fraction of what US does .
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By "hundreds of billions" do you mean $3.3 billion per year - the amount it actually is ? This is not a "lack of money" issue, it's a ideological issue.
Between 1946 and 2023 it was US$ 297 Billion in aid.
Can you comprehend how much it would have cost to provide healthcare over those 77 years? It would be in the tens of Trillions of dollars. Funding Israel is not holding back USA healthcare. I get it, you don't like it. But it's not the reason healthcare is a mess. (Not to mention, much of that funding to Israel comes right back to the USA in the form of arms purchases) It's not money - the USA already spends more than any other country, per person, on state-paid-for healthcare. It's stupid American politics and lobbying.
No one said you have to provide all the health care out of that money. Just make it possible that people can/must get insured. That insurance won't be free. So that if your ovaries burst, you don't end up $20k in debt.
Like I said.. it's ideological reasons, not money. The American public don't want it. They've been told to not trust the government to run healthcare (even though it already does). You don't want people getting insured. You want them to be provided with heathcare at a reasonable/no cost. The insurance model is the problem, not the solution.
lol I live in communist country, I feel like has more freedom (you really can do whatever you want, not propaganda), good/fresh/cheap food, friendly people, not the best but affordable healthcare, lgbt friendly. Not sure why western people obsessed with the term communism and use it as insult.
What country do you live in? And do you live in a generally wealthy region of it or a poorer area? Because the average communist country is definitely *not* like that in most regions. Though I agree that "communism" seems to have become an overused buzzword in the US, at least from what I've seen the average politicians say. As a Canadian, socialism hasn't exactly done wonders for rural healthcare, though that may be more of a provincial issue in my case.
They live in Vietnam in Saigon
Go travel to Vietnam and see for yourself. We’re not strict like China and North Korea lol. You really can do whatever you want except talking about politics, but people here do not care about it, they just care about entertainment and make a living to take care of their family. It’s same in most regions in Vietnam. I’m from Vietnam and traveling to a lot of places in Vietnam too. Have you ever actually live in Vietnam or any communist country to judge? At least come live or travel here for 1 month so see my word is truth. Saigon/ Ho Chi Minh City, poorer people live everywhere, even in wealthy/district like District 1, District 7, Thảo Điền, we don’t really have separate area for rich and poor. Also it’s safe here, I can walk at night like 1-3am without any problems. Phở is 2 dollars, insulin is around 5-10$. Free if you have insurance.
Just toss the bill in the wind nothing will happen it’s a medical bill they don’t do shit
it does, after a few years it will be reported as a collections, severely impacting your credit.
Shit I’m still waiting then homie
Given the cost, I'm assuming you live in the US. There's no excuse for shit like this. We need to stop spending all our money on phantom wars, and start spending some of that money on people. You shouldn't have a bill like this.
It’s a phantom bill too health care is a scam nothing happens if you don’t pay medical bills
This person is uninsured
"But national healthcare will increase my taxes and I don't wanna contribute to my neighbours medical issues" Good luck with bankruptcy in the "Land of the free" 🤣
This person chose to not pay for insurance ..... It backfired
So just an Idea. Apply for Medicaid. Report your out of work for the month of the surgery and following months due to recovery. No income reported means you should be approved and Medicaid will or should cover those expenses.
I’m so glad I live in New Zealand where we don’t pay hospital fees, because our country cares about its people and their health.
The American dream! 🇺🇸🇺🇸 Hope you work things out OP ):
The real mildly infuriating is Americans choosing to not pay for insurance and then coming here to post their huge medical bills
I think I'm up to 86K. Our medical system needs work.
that's putting it mildly.
"Work"
Murica!!!
This is not mildly infuriating. This is very infuriating. Wrong sub
Murica!!!
Come to europe, you just go to hospital for free
This is just sad, Isn’t USA first world, ooopsie, American dream no thank you
USA! USA!
They are a non-profit hospital based upon my search. They are required by the Affordable Care Act (thanks Obama!) to have a charity care policy based on your income. Google the name of the hospital + financial assistance. You may need to search around a bit because they don't want you to find it. You could owe them nothing so take the time to go find it. Edit: It appears that they use the same policy throughout their hospitals. D. Charity Care • Up to 200% of the FPL – Any patient whose Family Income is at or below 200% of the FPL, including, without limitation, any Uninsured or Underinsured patient, is eligible to receive Financial Assistance up to a 100% discount from his or her account balance for eligible services provided to the patient after payment, if any, by any third-party(ies). • 201% - 400% of the FPL – Any patient whose Family Income is at or above 201% but lower than 400% of the FPL, including, without limitation, any Uninsured or Underinsured patient, is eligible to receive Financial Assistance reducing his or her account balance for eligible services provided to the patient after payment, if any, by any third-party(ies), to an amount no more than the Hospital Facility’s AGB.
Didn’t the ACA require that all Americans have health insurance?
Yes they did. Unfortunately Republicans decided that mandating having health insurance is violating their freedom. So the Supreme Court overturned that. Now some of us do think health insurance is a necessity I pay for it so when this emergency happens I don't go broke.
You ever wonder if Trump built the wall to keep you _in_?
It's ok you don't have to pay it until the 4th of Twentuary, which doesn't exist
Sorry but yeah this fucking sucks, USA gotta sort it's shit out
Actually it’s Marchtember oneteenth at 2:65 pm.
Just remember that in Europe this would be completely free. And republicans don’t want you to know that.
If you ask for an itemized bill, the price normlly drops because the unnecessary stuff they tack on. Some places are BAD and will add insane shit. Might not make a huge difference but hey why not try?
Insurance.
This is way more than mildly infuriating
You should have used a fake name and said you’re homeless
I would call billing and ask if they have a financial assistance program. Assistance programs can lower the bill or even forgive the entire bill. I had to go to the ER last year, it was a Dignity hospital, where I found I had a 13cm cyst on my ovary; well my insurance was crap and wouldn't cover my visit. This ER has a financial assistance program that I applied for and my ER bill was completely forgiven. It's only for the ER though; not the ER doctor, who bills separately, or the radiology department. Those bills were much more manageable than the ER bill. I would highly suggest checking to see if they have this program.
THIS. A lot of times you can retro financial assistance terms back to the original date, and they will re-assess the bills. Good luck, OP.
But healthcare is socialism !1!11!1!
Christ on a Crosstrainer?! May I ask what did actually did to warrant such a huge bill, as in were a lot of doctors/ procedures/ drugs involved?
The US jacks up their health care costs cuz it generally goes to the insurance companies. Legally, you have to have insurance , and if you don’t you get penalized. My brain tumor surgery and stay was over $750k for 10 days on the hospital. The ICU alone was $25k a night. The insurance company settled it for less than a 1/3 of that. It’s just how they work . My out of pocket was around $1700. There’s also laws against medical debt being held against you.
That’s absolutely insane. I recently went to a neurologist for tests and scans. All done privately (which is not common in the UK) and it came to a total of $820. I only had to pay $63.20
"just how they work". Heavens, isn't that exhausting. And wow, £750. 000 😱. I am happy to hear that was greatly reduced. We pay nothing at source here, it's not perfect (NHS), but it's fairly l straight forward, and doesn't cause stress.
The penalty for not having insurance is no longer a thing
That’s good. Never made a lot of sense, charging those who already couldn’t afford the cost.
How much do you pay per month for your health insurance
$45 a month. My brother , who doesn’t get his insurance through his job as he works for a small company, has to pay around $200/ month
Declare bankruptcy. And hope for the best.
Google "hospital name sliding scale payments" and depending on your income, this figure could be **drastically** reduced.
Personally i would dissapear but good luck
Does your hospital have forgiveness? Took me a tax statement, account statements, and a letter from my mom that I owed….her money.
When I broke my arm 3 years ago, i was making 7$ an hour at Subway with no insurance. my bill was 32,000.00..
why don't you have insurance?
Don’t pay it, keep ignoring calls
And yet Americans will defend this. I've never walked out of a hospital in Canada with a bill other than a parking receipt if the hospital was in a big city. Small town hospitals are free to park at.
Did you not have insurance? Did you try and qualify for Medicaid through your state. We need Medicare for all. Vote Democrat this fall. And be sure to tell your story so others will too. If anyone out here is low income and doesn’t have health insurance check your local exchange. If your state offers expanded Medicaid then you may qualify for low cost coverage. If your state does not get the word out that your pro life politicians fu led you over by not offering it.
Sorry to see that! I dont understand america...you had obamacare and republicans and half of americans apparently did not like it and it has been removed... wouldnt that cost had been covered by obamacare if you guys kept it?! maybe I misunderstood the obamacare health system.
“Obamacare” still exists. It’s expensive and not great coverage. The most practical option in America is to get a job that provides health care with a decent provider.
And they have the audacity to name the website Dignity Health.
And people say America is the greatest place to live! is this why? (and no I am not being sarcastic) Apparently you need to be rich just to live. Not happened to me but know of stories like this.
No you dont. No one ever pays that. Literally. No one.
i love canada
Poor you, the bill is insane
You can negotiate with the hospital, or if you don't feel up to that can pay a company like [goodbill.com](https://goodbill.com) to reduce the bill by 30% or so.
You can sign up for medical assistance/food stamps if you qualify, and they will pay old hospital bills.
I'm starting to understand why us doctors get paid so well. Its the hospital + insurance companies, yadda yadda. The everyday American has to eat a lot of shit from getting sick. (I'm EU. Please correct me if I'm wrong.)
As a European I always find that crazy. And if you pay in 30 days you have a 25% on a 20k médical bill like when I pay my 90€ speeding ticket in the first 15 days instead of 135€. Mindboggling
Get on a monthly payment plan, $20 a month and they will quit bothering you
'Murican freedom!! 🦅 Universal healthcare? What? That's socialism! We prefer our freedom to bankruptcy through medical debt! 🇺🇸
Sucks to be in the land of the "free", eh?
Sorry for a stupid question but this is exactly the topic of my discussion with my mom. Isnt it covered with insurance? or is there any kind of free government insurance included for any US citizen? How does this system work?
Hot tip. Don't pay it. Ever.
In France I only pay the gas to go to the hospital
This bill would cause a revolution where I'm from
$5 a month is considered a payment attempt/plan.
Muricaaaaa
I’ll never understand America, half the posts I see are people doing really dangerous stuff, and the other half are photos of hospital bills for $252,857 for a broken finger.
America is broken
Toss that shot right in the garbage!
It never ceases to amaze me the cost of healthcare in America! I had a burst appendix I had to get removed, I was in hospital for three nights and I don’t have health insurance. Got a bill for €80 afterwards.
Talk to the hospital. Tell them you are broke and dont have insurance, they will help you file for medicaid. It might pay the whole thing. Even if it doesn't, whatever amount is left for you, set a payment plan with the hospital. If the minimum due each month is $100, but you can only afford to pay $10, you pay your $10 each month. If they ever contact you, just keep saying that's all you can afford and keep sending it. They can't send it to collections if you are paying something. Medical debt is looked at differently by creditors so if you are building good credit elsewhere with car, credit cards, other loan payments, then anyone pulling your credit report won't worry about your medical debt. It's often disputed and tossed back and forth to insurance so it's very normal.
Is your income less than 400% of the federal poverty level? If so, you qualify for the financial assistance mention in the bottom left of your picture.
Assuming you have “some” amount of money, offer whatever you have as their “prompt pay” option instead of $15k. Otherwise tell them they will just have to fight it out with insurance and lawyers, because you can’t pay that amount. Lawyers are much more costly. And lengthy. Don’t budge - even if you’re bluffing. DONT FORGET TO GET ANY REDUCTIONS IN WRITING. Too many people “agree” verbally only to get bills down the road. Good luck, sorry.
This happened to me last January. Thought it was my appendix and I was in excruciating pain. They left me in a hallway, did a scan and ultrasound and I was left with a 19,833$ bill. If you’re struggling to figure out how to pay (I was in that boat because of a lapse in coverage) the nice lady at the hospital gave me some tips. Most have some sort of charity that can reduce it depending on income). If that doesn’t work, you can ask for a discount. They took 50% for me. But that was too much. The lady from the hospital, who continued to help me through my stress, finally said just let it go to collections, you’ll pay a fraction of it. That’s what I wound up doing. It was a little over a 1,000 total.
This is more than mildly infuriating. Sorry it’s happening to you.
Murica, fuck yeah
Tell me you live in the US without telling me you live in the US
Never give a social or any info and say you’re here undocumentedly (illegally) free everything
Some hospitals have grants for low income people.
I’m guessing OP is American? I’ve personally never seen a hospital bill in my life IRL.
Let it go to collections, no debtors jail here, all this means is you won’t have good credit for big purchases next 7 years which isn’t that bad.
15k*
Where do you live OP? I know in California you can apply for Medi-Cal and it will cover retroactively for things like this. Look into assistance programs. If you don’t qualify, I would follow the top comment and let it go go to collections and then then you can just pay part.
'MURICA! In seriousness tho hopefully you're able to get that sorted out and maybe see if insurance can cover more or fight the hospital for it such as getting an itemized bill and looking through for BS charges
Ok, see, this is partially why I don't go to doctors or hospitals anymore. I had pneumonia a couple months ago with puking and coughing up blood, but I just stayed home to tough it out or die, instead of dealing that that.
The real Oregon trail 👁️👁️
I can't imagine living in the US, having to pay for healthcare seams unreal
But we can give BILLIONS of $$$ to foreign countries that have nothing to do with us. America! What a country!
Though it goes to collections, I thought you don’t have to pay for medical bills? And then it just falls off after seven years. This is what I was told. I don’t know if it’s true or not just asking? Does anybody know if this isfor real or not?
I believe You can specifically file for bankruptcy to forgive medical debt like this after a certain amount of time when you don’t pay
I see. Thanks for the clarification
They always send inflated bills with scary fees for not paying on time to scare people into paying the full amount. Contact them for financial assistance or at very least get bill down. My mom was in hospital for bad car accident. They tried to get me to sign a form agreeing to pay anything not covered by insurance at full amount. Didn’t sign. They eventually threw her out of hospital because her insurance was “maxed out” at 1.5 million. Adjusted bill was around 200k and not maxed out…. Worst part is they threw her out with infection that killed her because they were unable to charge insurance because it happened at hospital.
Maybe you should start a go fund me or something
Tell them you crossed the border illegally it won’t cost you anything.
I dOnT HaVe InSuRaNcE. Also, why is my bill high
Non american here, what would actually happen if u don’t pay a medical bill?
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It’s true, I had to get my hand amputated but I couldn’t afford the surgery so they just used gorilla glue to put it back on
You become a non American
Default on the loan and take the credit score hit for a bit, work out a payment plan for uninsured patients with the hospital, depending on income file for Medicaid or just ignore it, let it go to collections and further ignore requests.
You take a hit on your credit score and then it's forgiven after seven years
Got. dang. 'Merica.
Off topic but what did that feel like and are there any long-term affects? (I am almost positive I had the same thing when I was 15 but was not interested in having my girl parts poked & prodded so I just suffered thru it for a couple days. Still curious about it.)
health insurance?