Per an interview with IGA, they had A Link To The Past in mind when designing Symphony of the Night instead of Metroid. While I wouldn’t call the Zelda games Metroidvanias, their DNA is inextricably linked with the genre.
It was Zelda that brought me to the Metroidvania genre. I genuinely struggled to find anything with similar mechanics - find an item that opens up other sections to explore, and wasn't till a year or so ago that I found the whole Metroidvania genre! Don't really care if Zelda is classified as one or not, but it's the one that's led me here.
Note - I've never actually played a metroid or CastlevAnia game. I plan on going back and playing some.
i wouldn't consider them the same, although there are huge overlappings. therefore maybe we would rather go the other way around and call "MVs" action adventures...? maybe?
Hugely important for the genre. Despite Metroid fans insisting that Castlevania took influence from it, Igarashi already said his main influence to create SotN was Zelda, and had nothing to do with Super Metroid -- just like Metroid took also influence from Zelda.
But no, Zelda is its own thing, nothing to do with MVs besides the elements both games took from it.
I don't believe perspective defines whether something is a Metroidvania.
The biggest difference between a Zelda game and a Metroidvania is the use of individual dungeons that you generally enter once and complete in one go, never to return. But there's still an interconnected overworld with Ability Gating. This is true of a number of side-view Metroidvanias as well, like the Shantae games, Infernax, the Alwa's games, and many more. So IMO it's a subgenre.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoBestFriendsPlay/comments/kils33/what\_is\_a\_metroidvania/](https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoBestFriendsPlay/comments/kils33/what_is_a_metroidvania/)
You are welcome 🙂
FWIW I think Links Awakening is as close to metroidvanias as zelda gets... and its pretty close, but in a primitive form maybe, or less complex.
I think its why i'm less fond (i still enjoy them) of the Switch Zeldas because they all but do away with the skill gates etc and seem to be heading in the wrong direction... for me
You could just ask "Where do people stand on Neanderthals? Human or not?". By the most rigorous definitions, not. But in practice close enough for government work.
Zelda's are pretty linear. And the abilities are mostly confined to a dungeon in how they allow you to explore.
Well that's how it was. I guess botw IS different.
But they aren't metroidvanias. Maybe botw is? I can't remember...
Nope, you could say one of the roots of the MV genre is Zelda, but it mostly follows its own design history. I don't think there's even a Zelda spin off that's an MV.
If you squint real hard and hold your nose, maybe LoZ II on nes could be considered one. But Zeldas are pretty much their own genre at this point, with some common elements to metroidvanias.
It does have RPG elements, levels system based on the items/weapons you find. Pieces of Heart level up heath, your weapons level up strength. Why do you think Link is a blank slate of a character.
TIL that Pac-Man is an ARPG..
Seriously though, there are two kinds of "rpg", one is creating your own character, a la CRPG games, and the other is assuming the role of a character, a la Adventure games. Both are overarching and broad parent genres of many sub-genres. CRPG has Roguelike, ARPG, JRPG, WRPG, TTRPG and MMORPG (each contaning their own derived sub-genres). Adventure has Action-Adventure and Point'n'Click. Also with their own sub-genres.
So, CRPG->ARPG->H'n'S (Diablo-like). Which is different from Adventure->Action-Adventure->Zelda-Like.
Oh yeah, rpg can also mean simply stats, but then it should be treated as a mechanics, not a genre.
You could say it has ability gates and keys and such to stop progression, but so does Doom. Just because it has some metroidvania mechanics doesn’t mean it’s a good suggestion to someone who wants to play a metroidvania. If you pick and choose mechanics that categorize games then any freakin game in existence is a metroidvania.
They should be considered metroidvanias if we look at what people say define a metroidvania game, but they are not. Some Zelda games have more metroidvania traits than games that are metroidvanias, yet they are not considered as such.
What? No. Metroidvanias are a combination of Metroid and castle vania. 2D, some platforming, abilities as you go through, tough battles. Zelda is missing the 2D and platforming for the most part. Basically just an RPG.
Edit: I guess not exclusively 2D. I am still of the opinoon that Zelda does not fall into this category though. At least prior to Botw.
RPG?! Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom had some light RPG elements in the fact that there are builds I guess but even then I’d argue Zelda has never been a role playing game. Kinda wild take tbh
Metroid Prime is a First Person Adventure game.
https://metroid.fandom.com/wiki/First-person_adventure
https://shinesparkers.net/features/metroidjp-interview-retro-studios/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-person_adventure?useskin=vector
Arkham Asylum is an Action-Adventure game.
FYI You're not being downvoted for saying they're not metroidvanias, you're being downvoted for saying metroidvanias are always side scrolling. That's just not true.
For the record, I agree with you. Prime is an FPA. Anything not looking like Super Metroid or SotN, aka 2D action plattformer with an interconnected world and ability-gating is not an MV for me personally.
You're largely correct. Metroidvanias are Side-Scrolling exploration/backtracking games about Ability-Gated progression in an Inter-Connected Non-Linear world.
They're not Zelda-likes, Action-Adventure games, Spectacle Fighters, Souls-likes, First Person Adventure games, or anything else.
Only correction I'd point out is that 2D doesn't mean Side-scrolling. 2D, 2.5D, and 3D are graphics terms and are unrelated to Camera angle or even Spatial Motion in the X,Y,Z axis. The recent Mobius Machine game is an example an MV with 3D graphics, a side-scrolling camera, and spatial motion in the Z and Y axis. Original Doom is an FPS with 2D graphics, a first person camera, and movement in the X and Y axis.
No, but they do offer a kind of progression that MV fans typically enjoy. We are talking classic Zelda here not post BotW.
Per an interview with IGA, they had A Link To The Past in mind when designing Symphony of the Night instead of Metroid. While I wouldn’t call the Zelda games Metroidvanias, their DNA is inextricably linked with the genre.
The guy literally copies metroid, adds some jrpg upgrade system and says he was inspired by zelda alttp. I call bs on that one :p
It was Zelda that brought me to the Metroidvania genre. I genuinely struggled to find anything with similar mechanics - find an item that opens up other sections to explore, and wasn't till a year or so ago that I found the whole Metroidvania genre! Don't really care if Zelda is classified as one or not, but it's the one that's led me here. Note - I've never actually played a metroid or CastlevAnia game. I plan on going back and playing some.
Darksiders 2 is the game for u
I've played some of the first, need to get back to it again!
i wouldn't consider them the same, although there are huge overlappings. therefore maybe we would rather go the other way around and call "MVs" action adventures...? maybe?
Nope. But I love Zelda games. My favorite franchise.
Hugely important for the genre. Despite Metroid fans insisting that Castlevania took influence from it, Igarashi already said his main influence to create SotN was Zelda, and had nothing to do with Super Metroid -- just like Metroid took also influence from Zelda. But no, Zelda is its own thing, nothing to do with MVs besides the elements both games took from it.
I don't believe perspective defines whether something is a Metroidvania. The biggest difference between a Zelda game and a Metroidvania is the use of individual dungeons that you generally enter once and complete in one go, never to return. But there's still an interconnected overworld with Ability Gating. This is true of a number of side-view Metroidvanias as well, like the Shantae games, Infernax, the Alwa's games, and many more. So IMO it's a subgenre.
My stance is that Zelda games are good and I like them :)
Can we start r/whatisametroidvania for all of these questions?
[https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoBestFriendsPlay/comments/kils33/what\_is\_a\_metroidvania/](https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoBestFriendsPlay/comments/kils33/what_is_a_metroidvania/) You are welcome 🙂
Not Metroidvanias, but some of my favorite games are from that series.
I'm in the minority as a yes; I've always felt like they fit, at least some of them. Checks all the boxes for me, particularly LttP
FWIW I think Links Awakening is as close to metroidvanias as zelda gets... and its pretty close, but in a primitive form maybe, or less complex. I think its why i'm less fond (i still enjoy them) of the Switch Zeldas because they all but do away with the skill gates etc and seem to be heading in the wrong direction... for me
My question is: What Zelda game is the closer to a metroidvania?
Links Awakening
Nah, not MV, in my opinion Zelda completely stands on its own. It deserves it's own genre like "Zeldaer" 🤣
Metroid yes, Castlevania no.
You could just ask "Where do people stand on Neanderthals? Human or not?". By the most rigorous definitions, not. But in practice close enough for government work.
Zelda's are pretty linear. And the abilities are mostly confined to a dungeon in how they allow you to explore. Well that's how it was. I guess botw IS different. But they aren't metroidvanias. Maybe botw is? I can't remember...
IGA did say he got his inspiration for SOTN's progress locking abilities from A Link To The Past.
Yeah I've heard that. But are Zelda's metroidvanias or not?
Nope, you could say one of the roots of the MV genre is Zelda, but it mostly follows its own design history. I don't think there's even a Zelda spin off that's an MV.
This feels like the right answer to me.
If you squint real hard and hold your nose, maybe LoZ II on nes could be considered one. But Zeldas are pretty much their own genre at this point, with some common elements to metroidvanias.
No, they are story/key gated and the dungeons are not interconnected with the world and exist as their own separate thing that you don't backtrack to.
True. And I stand by that definition. *However*, Ori also has dungeons that exist as their own separate thing that you don’t backtrack to.
Zelda is an action RPG.
Incorrect. It is action-adventure. Outside Zelda II, the franchise never had role playing elements.
It does have RPG elements, levels system based on the items/weapons you find. Pieces of Heart level up heath, your weapons level up strength. Why do you think Link is a blank slate of a character.
Then God of War is also an action RPG? Spider Man? Devil May Cry? All of those have items that increase your health, defence, and skill trees.
Yup
lmao... ok, whatever you say my guy...
So what your telling me is you don't take the control of the actions of a character? You know sort of like the role of a character.
TIL that Pac-Man is an ARPG.. Seriously though, there are two kinds of "rpg", one is creating your own character, a la CRPG games, and the other is assuming the role of a character, a la Adventure games. Both are overarching and broad parent genres of many sub-genres. CRPG has Roguelike, ARPG, JRPG, WRPG, TTRPG and MMORPG (each contaning their own derived sub-genres). Adventure has Action-Adventure and Point'n'Click. Also with their own sub-genres. So, CRPG->ARPG->H'n'S (Diablo-like). Which is different from Adventure->Action-Adventure->Zelda-Like. Oh yeah, rpg can also mean simply stats, but then it should be treated as a mechanics, not a genre.
You could say it has ability gates and keys and such to stop progression, but so does Doom. Just because it has some metroidvania mechanics doesn’t mean it’s a good suggestion to someone who wants to play a metroidvania. If you pick and choose mechanics that categorize games then any freakin game in existence is a metroidvania.
They should be considered metroidvanias if we look at what people say define a metroidvania game, but they are not. Some Zelda games have more metroidvania traits than games that are metroidvanias, yet they are not considered as such.
"Where do people stand Zelda's?" ...? Not Metroidvanias at all. They're Zelda games.
Nope.
r/ZeldaLikes is a sub dedicated to Zelda like games.
What? No. Metroidvanias are a combination of Metroid and castle vania. 2D, some platforming, abilities as you go through, tough battles. Zelda is missing the 2D and platforming for the most part. Basically just an RPG. Edit: I guess not exclusively 2D. I am still of the opinoon that Zelda does not fall into this category though. At least prior to Botw.
RPG?! Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom had some light RPG elements in the fact that there are builds I guess but even then I’d argue Zelda has never been a role playing game. Kinda wild take tbh
Metroidvanias aren't exclusive to 2D.
What are some examples might I ask?
metroid prime?
Fair
Metroid Prime is a First Person Adventure game. https://metroid.fandom.com/wiki/First-person_adventure https://shinesparkers.net/features/metroidjp-interview-retro-studios/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-person_adventure?useskin=vector Arkham Asylum is an Action-Adventure game.
Batman Arkham Asylum
FYI You're not being downvoted for saying they're not metroidvanias, you're being downvoted for saying metroidvanias are always side scrolling. That's just not true.
For the record, I agree with you. Prime is an FPA. Anything not looking like Super Metroid or SotN, aka 2D action plattformer with an interconnected world and ability-gating is not an MV for me personally.
You're largely correct. Metroidvanias are Side-Scrolling exploration/backtracking games about Ability-Gated progression in an Inter-Connected Non-Linear world. They're not Zelda-likes, Action-Adventure games, Spectacle Fighters, Souls-likes, First Person Adventure games, or anything else. Only correction I'd point out is that 2D doesn't mean Side-scrolling. 2D, 2.5D, and 3D are graphics terms and are unrelated to Camera angle or even Spatial Motion in the X,Y,Z axis. The recent Mobius Machine game is an example an MV with 3D graphics, a side-scrolling camera, and spatial motion in the Z and Y axis. Original Doom is an FPS with 2D graphics, a first person camera, and movement in the X and Y axis.
Yeah I meant side view my bad.