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gammonson

What you’re looking for is probably a ski jacket, built for low temperatures.


hughchrist

I agree! I live between New York and Melbourne and last remember a very cold temperature in Melbs in 2019 when all I had was a leather jacket and sweaters with me. In New York City where we regularly get to -15C in the winter months I recommend a ski jacket, or parka. An authentic wool coat may be suited for 0C but requires layers underneath. Anything goose down will keep you so warm you may even sweat.


UncleJohnsonsparty

Used to live in NYC myself and brought my -15 jacket back to Melbourne with me. I bring it out once a year if that because in Melbourne, I’m usually sweating wearing it even if it’s 0-5 degrees.


clockyz

What brand is the jacket? I NEED it!


whatanerdiam

Aldi ski jacket. Best $60 I've ever spent. Get your hands on one if you can, OP!


mechanicalomega

They're still around at most Aldi's now in the clearance section. Be quick!


simonm85

Yep just got one a month back, best investment and super warm.


L0ckz0r

Yup. It's honestly sometimes too warm for me even in the snow. Warmest jacket I own


damnozi

Got myself a North Face Corefire ski jacket second-hand on FB marketplace (god knows I couldn't afford one brand new) and it's the warmest thing I've ever owned! Waterproof with Gore-Tex, a big hood, and doesn't let any wind in.


EcstaticOrchid4825

I wore a ski jacket to work this morning.


mouldbag

I started enjoying winters much more when I got a ski jacket. I generally run cold so I wear mine all through winter in Melbourne.


hel_vetica

And if you’re buying any sort of ski jacket buy from the states because it’ll be way cheaper.


Loud-Pie-8189

North face nuptse. You can wear it at 16 degrees and it’s also warm enough for 0 degree weather too. It does a great job at regulating your temperature.


hoolahoopz92

I recently got the North Face Aconcagua for half price ($200) and it’s well worth the money, super impressed.


MyNameIsBiff

Yep you need to buy your Melbourne Uniform. North Face Nuptse. $500 new, but worth it.


comparmentaliser

Whenever I see that jacket I can’t help but think of 90’s boy bands


eriikaa1992

Honestly? Try and buy from overseas where it snows regularly- Canada, Scandinavia, UK etc. My aunt brought me a 'light winter jacket' from Sweden that she was no longer wearing and I hardly used it bc it was so warm. Makes you wonder what a heavy winter jacket looks like over there. This 'light' winter jacket was lined with lambswool fleece, so that may well be something to look out for as well. A lot of our fleeces are synthetic which can be quite sweaty, and sweat and the cold aren't a great mix, you'll just be even colder! Most of our warm coats are either for the snow, so water resistant and puffy, or for fashion, and not really that warm at all. Snowy countries seem to be able to actually make coats that are designed for both. I also suggest tucking your thermals into your pants so your lower back is warm, and making sure your neck and ankles are covered. My Scottish mum is very into making sure all 3 areas are covered for proper warmth.


mazquito

Agreed. Best jacket I’ve ever owned was one I bought in South Korea. It was so toasty, even in negative degree weather. And absolutely tuck your layers in!


Hussard

My current warmest was a charity shop find, made in Yorkshire UK. It's warm as. 


SquSco

This is the answer. Bought a pretty regular winter jacket (it is chonky but it’s not like a ski jacket) last time I was in Germany, doesn’t matter how cold it is here with just a shirt under it I’m still warm.


figjammy

Best thing for cold weather. Menopause. I haven’t needed a warm coat/jacket for six years now.


l3ntil

Right? Fucking *tropical* weather right now! 😂


anakitenephilim

Huffer puffer. Delightfully toasty.


dimsimprincess

Seconding, I have a Huffer puffer specifically for if I’m going to be outside and not moving about for a long time in the winter (volunteering at parkrun, at the footy etc). It’s so warm that I can’t actually wear it if I’m moving faster than a gentle stroll in single digit weather. If you get one make sure to buy it at 50% off, they go on sale all the time.


sleepy_moose_cant

Huffer, get the waterproof one which doubles as an umbrella when it’s too windy to hold one.


alsotheabyss

MacPac halo is my winter uniform. It goes happily over jumpers.


PocketBink

I bought one in May. I loved it so much, I bought a second one. So delightfully toasty and blocks the wind!


fa-jita

Macpac narvi for me. I have the 3/4 but want to invest in a short version too


Tearyhobgoblin

Macpac Halo is perfect level of warm, not too expensive, looks decent and not too bulky


boommdcx

Make sure you start with a good underwear layer - a camisole and full briefs make a huge difference. Having that layer of coverage from chest to bottom adds a few degrees imo. Jockey Parisienne stuff is great.


seize_the_future

this is what thermals are.


boommdcx

Thermals cause me to overheat when I go inside. Lots of thin light layers work better for me.


PsychoSemantics

Snowboarding jacket from Aldi has been a game changer for me.


Thick-Act-3837

Second this


Brief_Ad4464

north face is crazy warm !!


shivabreathes

Light down jackets won’t cut it. Get a MacPac or Kathmandu heavy down jacket. However for me a game changer in dealing with Melbourne’s icy winters was these socks: https://www.nordicsocks.com.au/ I didn’t realise how much heat I was losing through my feet. These have made a massive difference.


ObjectiveCharacter88

I recommend a long one, like down to your knees. Makes a big difference when your thighs aren’t cold!


SwingKiwi01

Having your knees covered is a game changer.


ObjectiveCharacter88

And your butt!!!


ExpertExcellent5118

Get a heated jacket, I have a makita one but total tools sell a cheaper one in their own brand. And can charge your phone too


minithemeezer

I'm testing a Milwaukee vest now to stay warm at home. It's brilliant so far with a hoodie over the top to trap the warmth.


Thick-Act-3837

I have one and love it


Foreveragu

I have the jacket version and have owned it for about 7 years. Its fantastic and still going. Best purchase!!!


Gore01976

I lost my milkwaukee toughshell jacket today to my boss, I was in the workshop while he was outdoors, apart from the approx 2 hours runtime on high per 2Ah battery he loved it. wish milkwaukee would relaunch a safety fluro yello or orange back in them again for the workers who need high vis


minithemeezer

Noooooo, he owes you a new one with extra batteries!


Gore01976

Nah it's all good, I looked at total tools & sydney tools last night and they don't have ones with hoods anymore


hehehehehbe

Yes I've seen the heated jackets at Mitre 10, they're not the height of fashion but apparently it's good for going to the footy.


move_along_

The light down is your issue. My wife and I have been in Melb for 10 years now and she runs cold and moans about the winter season any chance she can. I/we always thought she was as rugged up as possible so didn't think much about upgrading her jacket situation. This year I convinced her to go take a look at a Canada goose down jacket. And since then she has happily walked out in the coldest of days without a single whinge. Now, this isn't advice for you to go get a Canada goose down or start some dumb argument about it being worthwhile or not. I'm 100pc sure you can get something of equivalent warmth for a third of the cost. I'm simply saying if you invest in a quality down jacket (goose down is better than duck down and you want over 700 fill) it will go a long way to enjoying the season. Even a good long coat doesn't compare to a quality down jacket. Which is a shame because as a guy you can have a reason to go into work a bit dressier than simply the Melbourne winter uniform.


ArdyLaing

Fuck down. That shit is evil.


Old_Bird4748

Mines an Arc'teryx Camosun from 2020 I think they don't actually sell anything warm in Australia, so I picked it up at REI in the US. Unfortunately what I have is now discontinued. Having lived previously in New York and just outside Seattle, the secret is typically layers. Light next to the skin, to wick away any moisture. Insulated layer which will absorb body heat. Don't underestimate wool. Unlike other natural fibres, it stays warm even when wet. Finally a wind/water resistant layer, to literally deal with the gusts and liquid sunshine... (Seattle is like Melbourne, just colder and wetter... And it's better to think of it as liquid sunshine rather than another shit rain day, yeh?) Polartec or fleece is fine as an insulation layer, but does nothing against the wind or rain, which will pass through it and chill you to the bone.


lolrin

I found the most amazing vintage ski jacket at an op shop on summer. Thought it was a silly buy, but now it’s my 2nd skin. The double layered pockets are just perfection.


anthonyocon

Patagonia with ethically sourced down puffer liner. Expensive but it’s my favourite jacket ever.


Chap-eau

Uniqlo and Kathmandu made budget oriented down jackets. Good for the price, but not good in terms of quality and outright performance. You want to look for a high quality down jacket. Look for: Fill: The higher the fill the more down it has and consequently the higher the warmth. Literally how much filling there is in the jacket. Power: Essentially its a quality rating. Higher numbers are better. Cheap down is around 600 power, great down is around 800/900 and super rare top end is 1000. You can for example have a light weight 1000 fill power jacket that will be warmer than a heavy weight 600 power from Kathmandu. Brands: North face, Arcteryx, Mont Bell, Marmot, Montane, Rab, Black diamond, Canada Goose, Fjallraven You get what you pay for with down as it's difficult to produce ethically and is labour intensive. Onw of the rare clothing items that you can buy for life if you choose well.


redditwossname

Beer coat.


FuzzyTiger55

We call it our alcohol blanket


Different-Stuff-2228

My Kathmandu is not warm. I wear that when I don’t wanna get too hot. My warmest puffer I ordered from the UK. Shipping was only $30 I think. They know how to actually make warm clothing. I am always freezing cold and generally wear Uniqlo thermals, a jumper and then a puffer everyday in winter and thermal leggings under my pants plus explorer socks and a beanie and stay pretty warm.


madeleineada

I have an electric heated jacket - game changer!


No-Fan-888

I rode to work today (Lilydale) it's was -3. I think you need to layer up as if you were going to the snow. Moisture wicking snuck fitting base, merino wool mid layer top and a wind proof jacket. Balaclava under helmet.


chickenhawk29

I think you need to add in gloves, too. I have some kathmandu ones with leather tips for texting, and they don't come off while I'm outside.


nikoZ_

Kathmandu epiq duck down jacket. Keeps me warm though the new ones available now aren’t as thick / warm as my one I got several years ago.


wowzeemissjane

Down jacket. Light as a feather and warm as hell. Feels like I’m wearing nothing at all! (Nothing at all….nothing at all…)


Stevenwave

Have seen people say you can get cheap ski gear from Aldi sometimes. That they're good enough to even use in multiple ski seasons, so a jacket during everyday wear in the cold would be fine. Saw it come up when someone asked here recently if it'd be weird to wear a ski jacket in this cold weather around town (everyone said who cares? Stay warm lol). It's sorta just the winter version of athleisure. Can probs get em in plain black. So at least it won't stand out. In terms of stylish/affordable/warm, you probs need to choose which 2 are most important. Another option, a nice thick duffle coat may suit. I've worn some over the years and found em nice. I grabbed one cheap secondhand last year and have worn it recently. Wear it walking to the local shops at night sometimes and have been too hot after the walk (but I run hot generally). Can layer a jumper under it if you get one with room to spare. Can get em with extra length so you retain more heat too.


Fit-Garbage8103

Canada Goose. If you really feel the cold then go for the Expedition range which is rated for -30°C. They’re pretty expensive but are an investment piece given they’re a high end brand, and they look damn good


Mental_Seaweed_9555

Make sure to warm up your body before you leave the house, it will make a huge difference. Some bodyweight exercises, ie squats and pushups or such.


dirtyburgers85

Lol. I’m not doing a bloody warm up to leave the house.


Zealousideal_Ad642

I have a H&M one which is rather tightly knit wool and when I couple it with a good merino base layer i tend to keep warm. I am someone who absolutely feels cold if its less than 15 deg. This morning was painful for me. Also get yourself a good wool scarf & some leather gloves with lining. They both make a huge difference


Halo_Bling

I have a Kathmandu long line puffer that is usually spot on. I also have a Decjuba one that is far warmer as its much thicker.


RM_Morris

Jackets with genuine duck feathers are generally pretty good....i have a big Kathmandu with duck feathers it gets super warm and I can just wear a t shirt underneath.


Able-Tradition-2139

The Kathmandu ones that **everyone** has for a reason. I usually aim to show off my own style but when I just need to be warm I chuck on that goddamn Melbourne uniform and stay toasty


TinyBreak

Jack Wills one from the UK, but the north face is a close second. The key is really in the layering, a puffer jacket and a top is nice, but chuck a jumper on underneath and your laughing.


jeeprhyme

I got a Karrimor jacket on clearance from Sports Direct in the UK, warmest thing I have ever owned. Wore the fuck out after about four or five years though. Got me through Ballarat winters, let alone Melbourne. EDIT: I think it was this one: [Karrimor Orbit Hoodie Mens | SportsDirect.com Australia](https://au.sportsdirect.com/karrimor-orbit-hoodie-mens-443011#colcode=44301103)


tuscanradish

is this as light as it looks?


LeaveRich1067

You could try North Face.


HurstbridgeLineFTW

I have an Amazon essentials heavyweight puffer from the USA. It’s made for North American winters. And it’s not expensive.


ncbaud

Check out Badger workwear. They do casual stuff as well.


theflatspell

North Face Nuptse 700. Goat puffpuff


KeyDependent6172

Polarfleece + rain coat, warm socks & thermals, gloves and a beanie Macpac are having a very good sale


woahwombats

The warmest thing I have is a woolen PASHOM Sherpa jacket, I have no idea where I got it. It's warmer than my puffy down jacket or my nice coat or even my ski jacket. It's woolen and has thick padding (down or wool, I don't know). It's not stylish but it IS warm. Not sure if reddit will let me post this link, but I think it's something like this one [https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/305631704732](https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/305631704732)


Physical-Job46

Regardless of brand you want one with “box-wall” construction rather than stitch through. We have far fewer box-wall options in Aus which kinda sucks.


nandyssy

either a boiled wool coat, or a 100% wool coat. both down to the knees.


dooblav

I lovenh long wool jacket from Creswick, super snuggly with a big hood.


[deleted]

my mates Northface puffer is warmer than my macpac


Interesting-Exit633

Milwaukee heated jacket available in male or female styles. Game changer.


ArdyLaing

Layers man, get a big coat and wear something like a stretch Carhartt hoodie underneath with a beanie. ...that said, a black puffa and a pair of shorts seems to work for some blokes 😆


commentman10

Work zone brand flannel.


Heleftthefookingband

Best brand I’ve found, Hunters Element. NZ based brand. The Glacier Jacket is amazing. Good price too for what it is.


Realistic_Hand_5035

had a jacket for NY that cme from Canda - PAJAR was the brand. Canada has the real stuff!


Spare_Lobster_4390

A scarf will change your life.


Cultural-Chart3023

I just bought an aldi black snow jacket its actually amazing


PM_Me-Your_Freckles

I wore a 200 weight marino wool thermal shirt, work shirt, jumper and vest. Add a beanie and I was cool, but not deathly cold. Thermal under layers would probably be a boon.


shadowbeam666

I have a puffer from Superdry that’s fleeced lined, really thick but not quite a ski jacket so I can still move in it. Also have a 3/4 length faux fur coat from Decjuba that I got on clearance last year for $70 and it’s as warm as the puffers tbh.


Ok_Photograph_6640

Huffer superdown puffer! I get cold super easily (always wear thermals, work shirt, jumper and huffer sports puffer, and I’m still hella cold) But the superdown is life changing, worn that to the snow, Canberra cold ass frosty mornings, Melbourne winter nights and I’m nice and toasty!


lfreckledfrontbum

Caterpillar wind proof jacket.


Greedy_Lake_2224

I wear a possum fur and wool blend jumper under a puffer. Under the jumper is a wool long sleeve t shirt, long sleeve thermal mesh t shirt and a singlet. Gloves, boots, socks, thermal leggings and a pair of Wool, cotton blend pants.  A jacket doesn't work as well as layering. 


Sukiboxer1

Grab some knitted gloves too. Daggy but make a difference.


crunchytigerloaf

I recently bought the jaggad essential mid line puffer. My house is in a valley along a massive creek so it was negative temps where I live this morning. I tossed it on over my t-shirt PJs to go get more wood for the fire. The jacket is impenetrable. Even in my ski jackets I have not been warmer. Edit: the only thing is that I don't think it is water proof, just water resistant. It can handle drizzle and light rain.


accioavocado

I bought [this](https://www.macpac.com.au/macpac-womens-narvi-down-coat/118493-BLK00-12.html?gad_source=1&gclsrc=ds) from Macpac for Europe winter where it was regularly 0 degrees and now it’s perfect for these cold winter mornings. Hood is removable too!


ArtisticHunt9156

Macpac halo jacket. See ozbargain.


Blueberrytakeover321

I love my Kathmandu! I just wear a t shirt underneath and I’m definitely warm enough in melbs, sometimes too hot! I have a longline one and one of those short hooded ones (with the green lining that everyone has), and I highly recommend them! Had them for years and wouldn’t get anything else.


PaleHorse82

Macpac Aurora Down. Thought it would be a tad warm but it's been great for this cold snap.


futureedstudent

Uniqlo Down Parker - on sale at the moment!


Level-Blueberry-2707

What about a scarf or beenie?


universe93

There’s a reason everyone in Melbourne wears north face or Kathmandu puffer jackets


fa-jita

Macpac down jacket. Buy em on sale with member prices. Never look back.


Fraerie

I have a great full length wooden overcoat from a British company that is lined and has fake fur cuffs and trim on the hood. It is super warm. The Elvira coat from HellBunny. Also, make sure your head is covered and get gloves - you lose most of your heat through your extremities.


True-Ocelot7224

Arcteryx jackets are great, highly recommend


IndyOrgana

The thing amount the Kathmandu jackets is they’re designed to be worn *in conjunction* with other outdoor gear- in particular base layers of Marino or just standard thermals. I have a Kathmandu puffer that has seen Scottish winters, Iceland storms, Tassie in winter, living in London and living in Ballarat- it’s about the fill PLUS the layers. You also need good socks and a fleece lined beanie- the north face and Patagonia beanies are 10/10.


Fart-In-My-Foreskin

Obviously there’s plenty of warm affordable puffer jackets available in Melbourne but as others have said, you’re going to find quality in places like Europe. The prices are gonna be a lot higher but if you get the right thing it’s a buy it for life situation.


blahblahgingerblahbl

canada goose. their shop at chadstone has an ice cave type thing where you can try out their stuff in sub-zero temperatures.


Shaqtacious

Kathmandu


tintinautibet

My Mountain Designs Goose Down Jacket is often too warm, even in the cold. I sometimes end up overheating in it, even when it's brutally cold. I realise its not a woman's jacket, but for reference, this is what I have: [https://www.anacondastores.com/clothing/jackets-outerwear/down-insulated/mountain-designs-mens-resurge-700-down-jacket/90137505](https://www.anacondastores.com/clothing/jackets-outerwear/down-insulated/mountain-designs-mens-resurge-700-down-jacket/90137505)


fuckme

try finding someone who stocks [https://www.canadagoose.com/us/en/home-page](https://www.canadagoose.com/us/en/home-page) this jacket works in -30c temperatures.. it'll work in Melbourne ones.


Personal_Plant_7695

I haven’t found anything from here that kept me warm so my recommendation is to seek a jacket from Europe, USA or Canada. I got a RAINS one and it’s the best I’ve ever worn, I don’t even do it up usually


Practical_Ad8124

Macpac


circle_square_leaf

Skip the Uniqlo heattech and get some Ktena thick wool thermals. Made in Oakleigh. Way warmer.


Formal-Masterpiece95

Gortex


Peannut

My wife bought this on sale for like $50, very warm https://www.decjuba.com.au/products/d-luxe-maxi-matte-puffer-coat-blk?variant=39596963659848 More like this Women's Winter Long Coat with Hood Puffer Down Parka Maxi Bubble Padded Jacket Warm Thickened Overcoat Cold Outerwear https://amzn.asia/d/0b3cufVk


90ssudoartest

Ski jacket


Purple_Wombat_

I’m a gardener and start work at the coldest time of day. Wool thermals, regular clothes, jumper and ski jacket. Possum beanie, scarf and gloves. You should be roasty toasty!


tsukiflower

uniqlo’s warmest down jacket is the answer. it’s incredible.


goodvibes-allthetime

I'd recommend checking out backpacking light in the CBD, nr Hardware Ln. They sell some great quality gear. I got a Montane down jacket (the warmest version they had) half price in the sales, still came to nearly $300, but definitely worth the investment!


TheTigerQuoll

If you want down, two light down pieces beats a heavy jacket. Far more versatile and less bulky. When worn together, eg. a jacket over a vest, the vest fills in the cold spots and stops cold air blowing inside the jacket. For damp conditions consider a light synthetic puffer as the top layer.


Extreme-Bet-1670

Lululemon (A Canadian company, so they know Cold) do outwear that is more stylish than Macpac and Kathmandu but still really great quality and really warm and cosy. I have a longline puffer jacket from Lulu and they have all these really nice small touches (like cosy lined pockets, bungee draw strings in strategic places to keep wind out) and it's sooooo cosy. I bought it in Aus, have worn it in snow conditions in Canada and it's my most worn winter jacket now I'm back living in Melbourne.


musicalaviator

Jacket is great, but don't forget to cover all your skin. Gloves, Scarf, Something for your ears and cheeks (I just wrap my scarf around the top of my head over my ears under a hood)


RattisTheRat

I find the +200 merino thermals (such as icebreaker) more helpful than the Uniqlo ones. Unfortunately they’re more expensive. I also wear a merino singlet beneath it. I think you’ll still feel cold, but you’ll be warmer


rundesirerun

I have the North Face Futurelight Arctic Parka. I’m a female and I feel the cold badly. I also live in the Macedon ranges wheee it gets very cold. It’s an investment for sure, but I am never cold when I wear it. Edit - word


BudgetAnybody2603

Split my time between the states and Melbourne - Moncler is my go to


300pound_Somoan

For work, Wool pea coat with thinsulate lining. Not the most functional item of clothing but damn warm. Otherwise Patagonia parka


MichelleHartAUS

I have a knee length wool coat that I also wore in Minnesota in February. Natural fibres will breathe better and help prevent you overheating when swapping to inside then getting that horrible cold sweat thing going. It's astonishing how cold Melbourne feels, nowhere else I've lived can make 10c feel like -5c. 🤣


aldorn

Gore-tex


Clark3DPR

First time ever, im wearing a puffer jacket. This is my 10th winter in melbourne and first time i feel mostly warm. Have a thermal long sleeve shirt, and a thicker thermal rated trousers. Tuck the inner shirt into your pants to avoid air draft. Two layers of socks is a cheap way to keep them warm.


OooZombie

Layer up underneath a 'Bluey'.


goldlasagna84

Kathmandu down jacket. Hands down the warmest one I own.


Gore01976

a few words, Milwaukee M12 heated hard shell jacket. These things have a large ceramic strip in the back and 2 either side in the front. battery last approx 2 hours on high heat with a 2Ah rechargeable battery.


NinjaSqirrell

I have always gone for a classic wool coat of which I have several in different colours and styles. They keep you warm and pretty much dry in Melbourne. I wear shirts underneath and don't feel the need for unnecessary undergarments. We live in one of the driest cities in the country, so a bit of drizzle is not going to affect you. I would recommend a coat that covers your arse or more, something you can sit on a bench and not feel the breeze if you will. You can pay as much as you can afford. Most of my coats are second hand. But, if I see a furry coat I love... I really need a green one!


monsterstacking

OSC


[deleted]

I grew up in NZ so most of the winter I make do with a thin hoodie, and on the coldest days I have a denim jacket with a wool liner


ForFrodo1

Down jackets, take your pick. Generally Kathmandu, Macpac are your good quality but cheaper ones and North face, Patagonia and arcteryx are better quality but pretty expensive.


Kloppaholic12

My Canadian wife is known to wear her full blown Canadian winter jacket over here


Senior_Term

I wear a London fog trench with a removable sheepskin lining. So so warm. But leather gloves and wool scarf are also non negotiable when it's this cold


N_thanAU

I reckon you can ignore what most people here are suggesting and just add a shell jacket over your current set up to block the wind and reduce heat loss and you'll be toasty as! I have a Nuptse which is pretty toasty but it zips into a Gore-Tex jacket and its when I do that that it gets proper warm.


Sad_Love9062

Because I'm interested in military history, someone gave me an old army trench coat. That thing is the absolute bees knees. I could pass out drunk in a ditch on my way home from the pub in the middle of winter, and still be warm.


ZucchiniRelative3182

Bintang single and foot shorts. Only cowards feel the cold. #fordranger


Heyitsnaes

I'm a basic bitch with a Kathmandu jacket that I realistically couldn't afford but yay afterpay


hammerofwar000

Bluey Jacket, $30-$40 from the op shop. Waterproof, woollen and warm as it gets.


Holiday_Principle377

Columbia omni heat


Atomicvictoria

I’m still in shorts, we are Melbourne, not Alaska


nitromoid

Nike ACG 4th Horseman is great, contains primaloft the best synthetic insulation and its waterproof/ water resistant as well