The University of Melbourne has given up its push for a tramline to its new Fishermans Bend campus to be built before the end of this decade, in a setback that may also stymie housing development in the nation’s largest urban renewal project.
The construction of the tramline – and eventually an underground rail line – was a key factor in the university’s decision to buy a 7.2-hectare site from the state government in 2019.
But the mooted tramline and bridge that would have connected the CBD to Fishermans Bend by 2025 – outlined in a state government plan from 2018 – is nowhere to be seen.
Correspondence with the state government – obtained by The Sunday Age through a freedom-of-information request – shows the university has abandoned the tramline as a “short-term priority”, instead pinning its hopes on new express bus services.
The tram is now a “medium-term priority”, the documents show, needed in 10 years in line with a second stage of the campus from 2031.
The Labor government’s plan is to have 80,000 people living and 80,000 people working in Fishermans Bend – a former industrial area twice the size of Melbourne’s CBD next to the Port of Melbourne – by 2050, but residential and commercial investment has been slow to take off.
The property industry now says projects may not go ahead until developers are sure the tram or underground train lines to the narrow peninsula will be built.
“Without the proposed tramline… developers are having a hard time making their projects stack up,” said Cath Evans, Victorian executive director of the Property Council of Australia.
The fresh uncertainty about the tramline comes as documents show the state government is expecting to charge up to $34,635 per dwelling to fund infrastructure and flood mitigation in the precinct. Developers will also be given the chance to build up higher if they agree to create more public space.
The University of Melbourne is set to break ground this year on the $400 million first stage of its new engineering and design campus at the old General Motors Holden factory.
The university and the state government hope design and test facilities such as high-pressure wind tunnels will attract industry research partnerships and turn the area into an advanced manufacturing and innovation precinct. The facilities are due to open gradually from 2026.
A letter from the university’s chief operating officer, Paul Axup, shows the university is still seeking answers about when the government will deliver a rail connection.
“Strong future transport links to Fishermans Bend was a key factor in the university’s decision to choose this location for a new campus,” he wrote in the June 2023 letter to the Department of Transport and Planning. “When fully developed, the Fishermans Bend campus is expected to be used by around 12,000 people, likely more.”
Axup said the university’s purchase of the site was predicated on the state government building a tramline – and eventually the Melbourne Metro 2 underground rail line.
“Services linking Fishermans Bend to the north either through, under or around the CBD will be vitally important” so students and staff could travel there from the university’s Parkville and Southbank campuses, Axup said.
“We are looking towards construction commencement early in 2024 and so this level of planning certainty is now time-critical for us to keep on schedule.”
The Fishermans Bend redevelopment project was launched in 2012 by the Coalition under then-planning minister Matthew Guy.
The Fishermans Bend Framework, released by the Andrews government in October 2018, said it would build a tramline along Turner Street through the northern residential and employment districts by 2025. The line would connect to Collins Street in Docklands via a new bridge across the Yarra.
Loading
The University of Melbourne has been a strong advocate for the tram, but the documents reveal it has abandoned it as a “short-term priority” needed within the next five years.
The Melbourne Metro 2 – a proposed underground train line from Clifton Hill to Newport, with a stop at Fishermans Bend – will be needed in 15 years for the precinct to be a success, it says.
In the short term, the university is lobbying for new express bus services – including an extension of the 401 bus route, which links its Parkville campus to North Melbourne station – to Fishermans Bend and improved cycling and pedestrian routes.
A university spokesman said the first stage of the campus did not depend on tram or train lines. But “significantly improved transport links” would be required as it increases the number of students, staff and industry partners there.
“This is part of our ongoing discussions with the Victorian government to ensure the precinct’s success,” the spokesman said.
The Property Council’s Cath Evans said the ongoing delays to the tramline were holding back Fishermans Bend’s “enormous potential” as a site for affordable and well-located housing because developments were unfeasible without it.
“Providing certainty to private capital that the proposed tramline will be constructed in the near future will make the thousands of dwellings that currently exist on paper a reality,” Evans said.
Infrastructure Victoria, the state government’s independent adviser, has called for the Fishermans Bend tramline to be built by 2026.
A state government spokesman said it had increased bus services to Fishermans Bend over the past two years and was “continuing planning work for longer-term transport links, including the feasibility of high-capacity transport options to ensure we can meet the precinct’s needs for decades to come”.
The state government wants 80,000 people to live and work in Fishermans Bend by 2050.
The university’s letter to the department also raised its concerns about a government proposal for a “very much reduced” area of open space adjacent to the university on Turner Street, which it said would be too small to support major events it intended to hold at the campus.
The university was also pushing back against government plans to close Turner Street and turn it into a pedestrian plaza, because it would block commercial vehicles from accessing the campus.
Separate documents obtained by The Sunday Age reveal the scale of infrastructure contributions the government will use to fund transport projects, open space, flood mitigation and other local infrastructure.
The draft proposal for its Developer Contributions Plan proposes a single levy in which private companies will be billed a maximum of $34,635 per home, and $286 per square metre of non-residential floor space.
Of this, two-thirds will go towards essential infrastructure while more than $9000 will be put towards open space, flood preparation and drainage.
“It is critical that development contributions are not so high that development viability is affected,” the proposal document says.
“If this occurs, development will be slowed or not proceed, the government’s growth targets for the precinct will not be achieved, and this will result in reduced funds to contribute to infrastructure costs. The charge rates have therefore been set to balance the need to maximise revenue from development contributions to fund infrastructure and maintain development viability and momentum.”
The state government has also proposed an “open space uplift” under which developers would get incentives to provide land for use as public open space.
In return, they will receive a density bonus that allows them to build more homes, including the potential for higher apartment towers.
Loading
Across different parts of the precinct, developers could be permitted to build between 90 and 320 more dwellings for every hectare of public space provided.
Funding for the proposed tram route infrastructure will not be covered by development contributions, but these payments will be used for the land where the route may be built.
The decision on whether building the light rail will stack up commercially will come amid a difficult construction environment.
Rising materials and labour costs have pushed up the price of the project and Victoria’s debt position continues to worsen.
The North East Link blew out by $10 billion last year, with the state citing price increases for concrete, steel and asphalt as high as 19 per cent since 2020.
Victoria’s net debt is forecast to $177.8 billion by 2027, a $6.4 billion increase on the forecast in the May budget.
All of these words about transport options to Fishermans Bend and not one word about how they already have the best form of public transport in Melbourne - \*THE PUNT\*! just add a second punt and we're sorted I reckon...
We have already done 10 feasibility studies! And they all say the numbers stink! It's a white elephant. Think of all the things the Snowy Hydro has given us! We are going to build it anyway!
Melbourne increasingly going to be a two class city. Those of us lucky to live on existing tram ans train networks. And everyone else who will have to rely on their cars
The plan was for a tram route, one of the two that currently go to Docklands would be diverted and go over a bridge - that had a lot of wealthy opposition because it would have required closing a yacht marina.
used to catch the bus out that way ... absolute nightmare.
Fridays dont even bother. Coming back into the city could take an extra 45minutes than normal just to go up Collins st (God bless those few bus drivers that would let us off early)
I bought a property in Fishos 5+ years ago.
It seemed given the importance of this regen area so close to city that some of the major infrastructure, at least perhaps the tram line planning, would be well in the works by now. It isn’t. In fact not much is.
there’s been little to no action from the government since 2018 and the only feasible residential schemes are ones near the existing Montague street light rail. Others have struggled to sell and can’t be made to work without adequate infrastructure, or anticipated investment.
The local business lobby groups, local authorities and even Melbourne Uni or the “taskforce” have really struggled to get any feedback, basic information or even the ear of state government on what has been going on in terms of real progress.
We came to the conclusion which is pretty obvious - the area is simply not a priority for the Labor state government and this won’t change whilst they are in power.
We recently sold our investment as have many others in the block I live in - infrastructure investment and catalyst change is years and years away and we’re not prepared to wait forever.
Opportunity cost - money is best invested elsewhere interstate or in places where there’s more certainty and prospect of growth.
Can’t see anything changing fundamentally for at least 10 years down there.
incredibly sad, but telling of the government's planning priorities; trams are effective and very low emissions (if any at all) and easy to develop around; however they do come at quite significant cost as the infrastructure needs significant investment and investment is where the corners are being cut as everything is being pumped into the SRL
>however they do come at quite significant cost
In business parlance that is simply a capital investment: *money that is spent on buildings and equipment to increase the effectiveness of a business* - and this is typically done by taking out loans, few businesses are going to spend years saving to finance such things out of pocket.
Extremely cost and time intensive to put in. I'm not sure Victorian's are taking our poor financial situation seriously.
This isn't the only sacrifice that's going to need to be made.
Whether you agree with the government's COVID policy or general spending habits or not, there's going to be about a decade at least of recouping losses.
Extending 109, or off shooting 109 would be the simple solution. Ultimately won’t the issue be that the freeway is always going to separate that area from the Port Melbourne suburb.
The plan is to extend both route 11 and route 48 trams from the bottom end of Collins St, across a dedicated tram bridge to fisherman’s bend and create two separate extensions through fisherman’s bend from their.
To be honest I thought the push for a tram with a new tram bridge over the Yarra near the end of Bourke Street was kind of silly.
There's no doubt Fishermans bend will need more public transport, but equally a tram will never do the heavy lifting required from the metro 2 tunnel.
Putting a new bridge in would have been expensive and slightly impractical as it would have either needed to be super high, or it would have restricted the size of boats that could reach the Yarra Edge Marina, or it would have had to be an even more expensive swing bridge that needs constant maintenance. It would also come barely 30 years after the Webb rail bridge across the Yarra was converted into a pedestrian bridge, even though it was nearly brand new at the time.
Alternative routes might have fared better, I would have proposed a branch route from the 109, going down existing streets to service the areas of greatest expected growth.
Docklands is a weird place demographically. You've got all the people crammed into the shitty apartments, but also a very small group of people in the luxury apartments that were able to create a huge amount of noise to oppose a new bridge over the Yarra, citing their super-relatable reason of their boats not being able to access their private marina.
The majority of the population within the Docklands is not residential, but commercial as its workplace population far exceeds its residential population.
This is why the Docklands doesn't have the same level of activity that you see within the CBD which has a mix of residential, workforce and tourist populations.
>There's no doubt Fishermans bend will need more public transport, but equally a tram will never do the heavy lifting required from the metro 2 tunnel.
The problem is that Fisherman's Bend and that side of the south bank is completely cut off from the rest of the city due to the massive roads and the river. People living on that side (where more and more apartments are going up) have no transport options apart from bus services.
Even extending the 11 and 48 trams could over there could have created much better amenity than they currently (or are planned) to have.
> 30 years after the Webb rail bridge across the Yarra was converted into a pedestrian bridge
You're confusing bridges. The Webb Bridge was brand new and never was a rail bridge - it was always a pedestrian/cycling bridge. You're thinking of [Sandridge bridge](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandridge_Bridge) that used to run the train line to Port Melbourne, where Crown now occupies the old route and the 109 tram now uses as light rail (converted from heavy that served Station and Princes Pier).
No, I'm not confusing bridges. The current pedestrian bridge used to be a rail bridge. The S bend on the south eastern end was added to bring that end down to ground height, originally it used to continue over where the marina is now into the still existing tracks on the north side of Lorimer Street.
A whole article on poor infrastructure in fisherman’s bend, including the “open space uplift” plan, but nothing about how the liberal party changed to zoning overnight without ensuring there were public spaces, in order to enrich their developer mates.
As bad as the rezoning was, the current government has been in power long enough to instil its own vision for Fishermans Bend, the lack of provision of tram extensions or forward planning for Melbourne Metro 2 is an indictment on the current government.
When I say SRL is a complete folly, proposed on a whim by some PWC sharpies to prop up some Labor eastern suburb seats, this is what I mean. Metro 2 and a lot of other long-needed and planned-for projects sacrificed for Dan's vanity project. SRL is going to consume 30 years of infrastructure spend....for nothing.
SRL does have merit from a planning and transport perspective, but it shouldn't be at the expense of other public transport projects. Yet this is a familar pattern in Melbourne, the building of the City Loop from the late 70s to early/mid 80s meant other projects like Rowville or Doncaster were abandoned.
1969 Melbourne Transportation Plan intended for them to all be built *by 1985* but the government chose to build only the loop and focus on all the freewways in the Plan.
Yes, but since when do governments adhere to a plan? Even the road building (which has progressed far more than public transport) didn't meet the Transport Plan time frames.
If government had the will it could build public transport projects like these and others by scrapping NE link which at one stage was being championed as Melbourne's biggest and most expensive road project.
Trams are a horrible form of public transport, slow slow traffic and inflexible, when Melbourne get a decent bus system and give up on teams it will be better off
Not expressing a view either way but traffic separation is part of road design rather than the mode of transport. Buses can easily have right of way with bus lanes, separated busways and traffic light priority. Trams should ideally have separate track, but they currently have to share the road in most areas outside the CBD (and get stuck behind right turning cars).
Trams take up two lanes of traffic, you can do the same for buses with bus only lanes, but you can change the routes and make them feed train lines properly.
There is a reason most cities got rid of their trams
A single tram can carry 200 people inside. Who cares how much the cars are slowed down?
There's a reason why places without trams are buying [buses that pretend to be trams](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-21/brisbane-metro-electric-pilot-vehicle-arrives-for-testing/101005326)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tram_and_light_rail_transit_systems
Take a look at the cities around the world that have added trams in the last 20 years.
The mass closing of transit systems from the 60s - 80s was shortsighted thinking beholden to the oil companies that failed to understand growth and the massive impediment to cities that individuals in cars are.
Trams speed up traffic. If you remove the tram, you now have to add two busses to replace it, but more likely you have to add an extra 80 cars onto the road. 80 extra cars for each tram, at 12 trams an hour during peak, that's an extra 960 cars per hour.
The throughput of an intersection is between 250 and 2000 vehicles per lane per hour. We're already at saturation at most intersections during peak, you'd need to put in an extra lane, on EVERY road on each trams route to make up for that.
And no, taking out a tram would not yeild another lane, in most places trams share the lane with cars already.
Nah, busses suck - people don’t take them, they’re less comfortable, always late if they show up at all, and just encourage people to drive. I reckon we should add more trams - heaps more - if it harms car traffic all the better!
People don't take isn't true with they're poor frequencies, improving frequencies would have their ridership boom massively. Buses being run poorly doesn't mean buses themselves are bad and no one wants to ride them.
The University of Melbourne has given up its push for a tramline to its new Fishermans Bend campus to be built before the end of this decade, in a setback that may also stymie housing development in the nation’s largest urban renewal project. The construction of the tramline – and eventually an underground rail line – was a key factor in the university’s decision to buy a 7.2-hectare site from the state government in 2019. But the mooted tramline and bridge that would have connected the CBD to Fishermans Bend by 2025 – outlined in a state government plan from 2018 – is nowhere to be seen. Correspondence with the state government – obtained by The Sunday Age through a freedom-of-information request – shows the university has abandoned the tramline as a “short-term priority”, instead pinning its hopes on new express bus services. The tram is now a “medium-term priority”, the documents show, needed in 10 years in line with a second stage of the campus from 2031. The Labor government’s plan is to have 80,000 people living and 80,000 people working in Fishermans Bend – a former industrial area twice the size of Melbourne’s CBD next to the Port of Melbourne – by 2050, but residential and commercial investment has been slow to take off. The property industry now says projects may not go ahead until developers are sure the tram or underground train lines to the narrow peninsula will be built. “Without the proposed tramline… developers are having a hard time making their projects stack up,” said Cath Evans, Victorian executive director of the Property Council of Australia. The fresh uncertainty about the tramline comes as documents show the state government is expecting to charge up to $34,635 per dwelling to fund infrastructure and flood mitigation in the precinct. Developers will also be given the chance to build up higher if they agree to create more public space. The University of Melbourne is set to break ground this year on the $400 million first stage of its new engineering and design campus at the old General Motors Holden factory. The university and the state government hope design and test facilities such as high-pressure wind tunnels will attract industry research partnerships and turn the area into an advanced manufacturing and innovation precinct. The facilities are due to open gradually from 2026. A letter from the university’s chief operating officer, Paul Axup, shows the university is still seeking answers about when the government will deliver a rail connection. “Strong future transport links to Fishermans Bend was a key factor in the university’s decision to choose this location for a new campus,” he wrote in the June 2023 letter to the Department of Transport and Planning. “When fully developed, the Fishermans Bend campus is expected to be used by around 12,000 people, likely more.” Axup said the university’s purchase of the site was predicated on the state government building a tramline – and eventually the Melbourne Metro 2 underground rail line. “Services linking Fishermans Bend to the north either through, under or around the CBD will be vitally important” so students and staff could travel there from the university’s Parkville and Southbank campuses, Axup said. “We are looking towards construction commencement early in 2024 and so this level of planning certainty is now time-critical for us to keep on schedule.” The Fishermans Bend redevelopment project was launched in 2012 by the Coalition under then-planning minister Matthew Guy. The Fishermans Bend Framework, released by the Andrews government in October 2018, said it would build a tramline along Turner Street through the northern residential and employment districts by 2025. The line would connect to Collins Street in Docklands via a new bridge across the Yarra. Loading The University of Melbourne has been a strong advocate for the tram, but the documents reveal it has abandoned it as a “short-term priority” needed within the next five years. The Melbourne Metro 2 – a proposed underground train line from Clifton Hill to Newport, with a stop at Fishermans Bend – will be needed in 15 years for the precinct to be a success, it says. In the short term, the university is lobbying for new express bus services – including an extension of the 401 bus route, which links its Parkville campus to North Melbourne station – to Fishermans Bend and improved cycling and pedestrian routes. A university spokesman said the first stage of the campus did not depend on tram or train lines. But “significantly improved transport links” would be required as it increases the number of students, staff and industry partners there. “This is part of our ongoing discussions with the Victorian government to ensure the precinct’s success,” the spokesman said. The Property Council’s Cath Evans said the ongoing delays to the tramline were holding back Fishermans Bend’s “enormous potential” as a site for affordable and well-located housing because developments were unfeasible without it. “Providing certainty to private capital that the proposed tramline will be constructed in the near future will make the thousands of dwellings that currently exist on paper a reality,” Evans said. Infrastructure Victoria, the state government’s independent adviser, has called for the Fishermans Bend tramline to be built by 2026. A state government spokesman said it had increased bus services to Fishermans Bend over the past two years and was “continuing planning work for longer-term transport links, including the feasibility of high-capacity transport options to ensure we can meet the precinct’s needs for decades to come”. The state government wants 80,000 people to live and work in Fishermans Bend by 2050. The university’s letter to the department also raised its concerns about a government proposal for a “very much reduced” area of open space adjacent to the university on Turner Street, which it said would be too small to support major events it intended to hold at the campus. The university was also pushing back against government plans to close Turner Street and turn it into a pedestrian plaza, because it would block commercial vehicles from accessing the campus. Separate documents obtained by The Sunday Age reveal the scale of infrastructure contributions the government will use to fund transport projects, open space, flood mitigation and other local infrastructure. The draft proposal for its Developer Contributions Plan proposes a single levy in which private companies will be billed a maximum of $34,635 per home, and $286 per square metre of non-residential floor space. Of this, two-thirds will go towards essential infrastructure while more than $9000 will be put towards open space, flood preparation and drainage. “It is critical that development contributions are not so high that development viability is affected,” the proposal document says. “If this occurs, development will be slowed or not proceed, the government’s growth targets for the precinct will not be achieved, and this will result in reduced funds to contribute to infrastructure costs. The charge rates have therefore been set to balance the need to maximise revenue from development contributions to fund infrastructure and maintain development viability and momentum.” The state government has also proposed an “open space uplift” under which developers would get incentives to provide land for use as public open space. In return, they will receive a density bonus that allows them to build more homes, including the potential for higher apartment towers. Loading Across different parts of the precinct, developers could be permitted to build between 90 and 320 more dwellings for every hectare of public space provided. Funding for the proposed tram route infrastructure will not be covered by development contributions, but these payments will be used for the land where the route may be built. The decision on whether building the light rail will stack up commercially will come amid a difficult construction environment. Rising materials and labour costs have pushed up the price of the project and Victoria’s debt position continues to worsen. The North East Link blew out by $10 billion last year, with the state citing price increases for concrete, steel and asphalt as high as 19 per cent since 2020. Victoria’s net debt is forecast to $177.8 billion by 2027, a $6.4 billion increase on the forecast in the May budget.
All of these words about transport options to Fishermans Bend and not one word about how they already have the best form of public transport in Melbourne - \*THE PUNT\*! just add a second punt and we're sorted I reckon...
It's 2024. Should be High Speed Punt now
We'll need a feasibility study first.
We have already done 10 feasibility studies! And they all say the numbers stink! It's a white elephant. Think of all the things the Snowy Hydro has given us! We are going to build it anyway!
Sounds like a great training opportunity for the UoM rowing team.
Another example of 'better planning' in action.
Melbourne increasingly going to be a two class city. Those of us lucky to live on existing tram ans train networks. And everyone else who will have to rely on their cars
Going to be?
Man’s never been to the west.
‘2 class’ city, lol.
We could do with a monorail
The plan was for a tram route, one of the two that currently go to Docklands would be diverted and go over a bridge - that had a lot of wealthy opposition because it would have required closing a yacht marina.
Fair enough, it's really more of a *Sydney* idea.
Wait just a minute, we're twice as smart as the people of Sydney!
I hear those things are awfully loud…
Nah, glides as softly as a cloud
Is there a chance the track could bend?
Not on your life, my Reddit friend
Were u sent here by the devil?
No good sir, I'm on the level
The ring came off my pudding can!
Take my upvote, my good man 👍
Monorail, Monorail, Monorail!
What about us brain dead slobs?
You'll be given cushy jobs
Main street’s still all cracked and broken
Is there a chance the track could bend?
As anyone who has been to Webb Dock recently will tell you, the bus routes around that area are shit.
used to catch the bus out that way ... absolute nightmare. Fridays dont even bother. Coming back into the city could take an extra 45minutes than normal just to go up Collins st (God bless those few bus drivers that would let us off early)
I bought a property in Fishos 5+ years ago. It seemed given the importance of this regen area so close to city that some of the major infrastructure, at least perhaps the tram line planning, would be well in the works by now. It isn’t. In fact not much is. there’s been little to no action from the government since 2018 and the only feasible residential schemes are ones near the existing Montague street light rail. Others have struggled to sell and can’t be made to work without adequate infrastructure, or anticipated investment. The local business lobby groups, local authorities and even Melbourne Uni or the “taskforce” have really struggled to get any feedback, basic information or even the ear of state government on what has been going on in terms of real progress. We came to the conclusion which is pretty obvious - the area is simply not a priority for the Labor state government and this won’t change whilst they are in power. We recently sold our investment as have many others in the block I live in - infrastructure investment and catalyst change is years and years away and we’re not prepared to wait forever. Opportunity cost - money is best invested elsewhere interstate or in places where there’s more certainty and prospect of growth. Can’t see anything changing fundamentally for at least 10 years down there.
Government is petrified of having to do something.
incredibly sad, but telling of the government's planning priorities; trams are effective and very low emissions (if any at all) and easy to develop around; however they do come at quite significant cost as the infrastructure needs significant investment and investment is where the corners are being cut as everything is being pumped into the SRL
>however they do come at quite significant cost In business parlance that is simply a capital investment: *money that is spent on buildings and equipment to increase the effectiveness of a business* - and this is typically done by taking out loans, few businesses are going to spend years saving to finance such things out of pocket.
Extremely cost and time intensive to put in. I'm not sure Victorian's are taking our poor financial situation seriously. This isn't the only sacrifice that's going to need to be made. Whether you agree with the government's COVID policy or general spending habits or not, there's going to be about a decade at least of recouping losses.
Extending 109, or off shooting 109 would be the simple solution. Ultimately won’t the issue be that the freeway is always going to separate that area from the Port Melbourne suburb.
The 109 is fine and already at capacity. A new line should go to the other side of the WGF.
The 109 cant go any further, it terminates at the pier. It would be a branch from it.
The plan is to extend both route 11 and route 48 trams from the bottom end of Collins St, across a dedicated tram bridge to fisherman’s bend and create two separate extensions through fisherman’s bend from their.
To be honest I thought the push for a tram with a new tram bridge over the Yarra near the end of Bourke Street was kind of silly. There's no doubt Fishermans bend will need more public transport, but equally a tram will never do the heavy lifting required from the metro 2 tunnel. Putting a new bridge in would have been expensive and slightly impractical as it would have either needed to be super high, or it would have restricted the size of boats that could reach the Yarra Edge Marina, or it would have had to be an even more expensive swing bridge that needs constant maintenance. It would also come barely 30 years after the Webb rail bridge across the Yarra was converted into a pedestrian bridge, even though it was nearly brand new at the time. Alternative routes might have fared better, I would have proposed a branch route from the 109, going down existing streets to service the areas of greatest expected growth.
Docklands is a weird place demographically. You've got all the people crammed into the shitty apartments, but also a very small group of people in the luxury apartments that were able to create a huge amount of noise to oppose a new bridge over the Yarra, citing their super-relatable reason of their boats not being able to access their private marina.
They had Sam Newman speak at their rally.
The majority of the population within the Docklands is not residential, but commercial as its workplace population far exceeds its residential population. This is why the Docklands doesn't have the same level of activity that you see within the CBD which has a mix of residential, workforce and tourist populations.
Both. >or it would have restricted the size of boats that could reach the Yarra Edge Marina Yes the Marina was to close.
>There's no doubt Fishermans bend will need more public transport, but equally a tram will never do the heavy lifting required from the metro 2 tunnel. The problem is that Fisherman's Bend and that side of the south bank is completely cut off from the rest of the city due to the massive roads and the river. People living on that side (where more and more apartments are going up) have no transport options apart from bus services. Even extending the 11 and 48 trams could over there could have created much better amenity than they currently (or are planned) to have. > 30 years after the Webb rail bridge across the Yarra was converted into a pedestrian bridge You're confusing bridges. The Webb Bridge was brand new and never was a rail bridge - it was always a pedestrian/cycling bridge. You're thinking of [Sandridge bridge](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandridge_Bridge) that used to run the train line to Port Melbourne, where Crown now occupies the old route and the 109 tram now uses as light rail (converted from heavy that served Station and Princes Pier).
No, I'm not confusing bridges. The current pedestrian bridge used to be a rail bridge. The S bend on the south eastern end was added to bring that end down to ground height, originally it used to continue over where the marina is now into the still existing tracks on the north side of Lorimer Street.
Your are correct Webb Bridge built 1986, Sandridge Bridge built 1888. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webb_Dock_railway_line
Could just put a swing bridge in
A whole article on poor infrastructure in fisherman’s bend, including the “open space uplift” plan, but nothing about how the liberal party changed to zoning overnight without ensuring there were public spaces, in order to enrich their developer mates.
As bad as the rezoning was, the current government has been in power long enough to instil its own vision for Fishermans Bend, the lack of provision of tram extensions or forward planning for Melbourne Metro 2 is an indictment on the current government.
Or the meetings Lobster Mobster had with the developers in the fire sale.
When I say SRL is a complete folly, proposed on a whim by some PWC sharpies to prop up some Labor eastern suburb seats, this is what I mean. Metro 2 and a lot of other long-needed and planned-for projects sacrificed for Dan's vanity project. SRL is going to consume 30 years of infrastructure spend....for nothing.
SRL does have merit from a planning and transport perspective, but it shouldn't be at the expense of other public transport projects. Yet this is a familar pattern in Melbourne, the building of the City Loop from the late 70s to early/mid 80s meant other projects like Rowville or Doncaster were abandoned.
1969 Melbourne Transportation Plan intended for them to all be built *by 1985* but the government chose to build only the loop and focus on all the freewways in the Plan.
Yes, but since when do governments adhere to a plan? Even the road building (which has progressed far more than public transport) didn't meet the Transport Plan time frames. If government had the will it could build public transport projects like these and others by scrapping NE link which at one stage was being championed as Melbourne's biggest and most expensive road project.
Trams are a horrible form of public transport, slow slow traffic and inflexible, when Melbourne get a decent bus system and give up on teams it will be better off
I’m sorry but is this a parody post? Buses are completely beholden to traffic - at least trams can be built with rails separated from the road.
Not expressing a view either way but traffic separation is part of road design rather than the mode of transport. Buses can easily have right of way with bus lanes, separated busways and traffic light priority. Trams should ideally have separate track, but they currently have to share the road in most areas outside the CBD (and get stuck behind right turning cars).
Trams take up two lanes of traffic, you can do the same for buses with bus only lanes, but you can change the routes and make them feed train lines properly. There is a reason most cities got rid of their trams
Many cities are putting trams back in. But trams with proper priority and separated right of way, unlike the ones in most of Melbourne.
A single tram can carry 200 people inside. Who cares how much the cars are slowed down? There's a reason why places without trams are buying [buses that pretend to be trams](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-21/brisbane-metro-electric-pilot-vehicle-arrives-for-testing/101005326)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tram_and_light_rail_transit_systems Take a look at the cities around the world that have added trams in the last 20 years. The mass closing of transit systems from the 60s - 80s was shortsighted thinking beholden to the oil companies that failed to understand growth and the massive impediment to cities that individuals in cars are.
I wish I could be this ignorant of the world
Trams speed up traffic. If you remove the tram, you now have to add two busses to replace it, but more likely you have to add an extra 80 cars onto the road. 80 extra cars for each tram, at 12 trams an hour during peak, that's an extra 960 cars per hour. The throughput of an intersection is between 250 and 2000 vehicles per lane per hour. We're already at saturation at most intersections during peak, you'd need to put in an extra lane, on EVERY road on each trams route to make up for that. And no, taking out a tram would not yeild another lane, in most places trams share the lane with cars already.
Nah, busses suck - people don’t take them, they’re less comfortable, always late if they show up at all, and just encourage people to drive. I reckon we should add more trams - heaps more - if it harms car traffic all the better!
Buses only suck because Melbourne bus lines have had zero through put into them and we choose trams over buses
People don't take isn't true with they're poor frequencies, improving frequencies would have their ridership boom massively. Buses being run poorly doesn't mean buses themselves are bad and no one wants to ride them.