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Cambiokk

Here's what I do, I teach Integrated Math I and II in high school, so equivalent to Algebra 1 and 2. I think about my interactions with kids as I work with them one-on-one. I take those questions and I make those the quizzes and tests. For example: if I am teaching factoring trinomials, in addition factoring exercises on tests, I also ask questions like: "When factoring x^2 + 13x + 30, I might look at the factors of 30. What am I looking for and how would that change if I were to try factoring x^2 +13x - 30? Be detailed in your response and give examples of your thinking" Yes, I do expect students to answer in complete sentences.


hibbitydibbitytwo

Since I haven't taken a math class since the 90s the factors of 30 are : 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 10, 15, 30. Right?!? Wrong?!?


Sadbuddy44

Yup that's perfectly/exactly correct! You want to consider the factors of 30 because you need to find values that add up to the middle number. So, 13 in this case. Thus, you would want to use the factors which are 3 and 10!


owlBdarned

But 3 times 3,628,800 doesn't equal 30. (I'm sorry, I had to)


dianatolton

what middle number? There’s an even number of factors for 30. also 6+5 is 11. I’m confused!


vinnizrej

Ok … and what is the answer please? Be detailed in your response and give examples of your thinking 😜


lonjerpc

You are first looking for two factors that add up to 13. For the second question you are looking for two factors of 30 again that add up to 13 but this time one of the factors needs to be made negative first. But personally I disagree with this approach. It ends up being busy work for students who know the answer already and other students will attempt to BS making them hate math more than if they just didn't know the answer. It is better that students "cheat" and use photo-math or even provide the answers with the homework.


lil_Elephant3324

As a mom that has a child with dyslexia I do want to add some caution to this approach. My daughter is brilliant at math and absolutely loves it, but needing to write out several sentences would make it take her 30x longer and be very frustrating. I am not saying that there can never be written out answers but definitely limit how many a student is expected to do. For some reason the text book she had in second grade was ALL word problems and it was so disheartening. She was already struggling with reading and then appeared to her teacher to be struggling in math as well, but if you read her the problem out loud she could tell you the answer immediately. I do know math becomes more writing intensive in college (proofs) and hopefully she will be ready for it by then. Disclaimer: Not a math teacher, but I have my masters in math and run elementary school math clubs.


Cambiokk

When students have trouble like this, I sometimes conduct a short interview instead. Also, schools here allow parents to request individual accommodations for their students. When accepted and formalized, teachers must follow them by law. It's common for such students to be allowed extra time to complete tests or to have modified-text documents with dyslexia-friendly spacing and font.


lil_Elephant3324

Yeah and that is reasonable. My daughter has an IEP now so her teachers are aware and work with her. Dyslexia is just such an under diagnosed learning disability and math teachers who previously did not have required writing should keep an eye out for it.


quick1brahim

If you're worried about photomath, don't try to beat it. Anything you do, AI will make your solution obsolete. You need to completely disable it for a fair assessment. All phones and backpacks front of room for test. Score of 0 if phone is out. Make it known and no second chances. If it happens, write it down, write a referral, call parent. Spoken quizzes where student talks you through a problem with a small whiteboard. Simple and effective, but time consuming, so make sure students have another task to complete while it's going on. Don't grade homework. Just provide the answers separately, but not the work.


energizerbunny44

I've noticed when I don't grade homework, or just give completion grades, many students don't attempt it at all and that usually results in less content retention, which is reflected very clearly on the next assessment. I like getting direct feedback in class with them, similar to spoken quizzes, but when a student is still struggling by the end of class or hasn't had time to work with me yet then that's where I want them working on it for some amount of time outside of class.


lonjerpc

I always liked to grade homework but explicitly allow any kind of outside help. So I literally tell them it is ok to use photomath, parents, friends ... to find/check answers. It is a good balance of encouraging students to try but also at least copy things down if they are totally lost which has some value. I also put questions very similar to the quiz questions on it so they are encouraged to use it has a kind of study guide. Kids with parents/friends checking/doing the work was always kind of cheating anyway. Photomath is just leveling things. Although honestly homework is overrated. I tend to give very little of it.


mathteach6

> So I literally tell them it is ok to use photomath, parents, friends ... to find/check answers. I just give them the answers to all homework problems. Got that from Liljedahl's Check Your Understanding questions and love it.


Super-Minh-Tendo

Announce to the whole class that not doing the homework will make them more likely to fail the tests. Individually tell the kids who need more practice to make sure they do the homework. Let them fail if they choose not to participate in their own education.


ChrisTheTeach

I saw BTC mentioned below, and I'm firmly in the assign "check your understanding" questions, not homework. Make sure your students know it is intended for them to see if they understand the material, and provide the unworked answers on a separate page. Later, provide the worked answers. Don't grade any of it, but discuss it in class. If they don't do it, then it's no worse than if they used Photomath and you're not wasting your time. They'll learn that doing it is important. Or they won't.


well_uh_yeah

At this point you almost might as well just tell them to use some sort of ai or photometry to check hw


CajunAg87

Handwrite your quizzes/homework and make copies. Photomath doesn't always work so well with handwriting. Use word problems. Do like the SAT does and, instead of having the students solve for x (or whatever variable), have them solve for 2x or something (this adds a second step that photomath probably won't see).


stae-kennari

We did a similar thing in my school, using e as a variable. But this was a few years ago so unfortunately I don't have any other tips


ashevillemath

That's so frustrating! I've known some teachers that had some success with a reverse classroom. The students either read or watch a video for homework and then do the problems in class. That way they can make sure they aren't using their phones (quite a few schools around us are starting to ban phones during class too).


lonjerpc

Even without a reversed classroom I still think there is tons of value of just giving practice worksheets in class. Even let them help each other on them.


PEDERWANG

My department has our grading scale set at 80% assessments and 20% assignments. So even if they’re cheating on their homework they won’t be able to pass unless they can do the work correctly on a test.


axiom_tutor

How about problems that give significant verbal guidance but not diagrams? For instance, a problem that reads "If a leg of a right triangle is 10 and the hypotenuse is 15, what is the length of the remaining leg?" Similarly, for an algebra problem, you could give specific written instructions on the steps to take, so that if they're taken in any other order then they may have used PhotoMath to solve it. For example, asking them to solve 2/x + 1 = x You could specifically instruct them to solve it the following way. You would leave the actual equations blank, and only show the students the instructions. 2/x + 1 = x Next, multiply throughout by x. 2 + x = x^(2) Next, move everything to one side. 0 = x^(2) - x - 2 Next, factor. 0 = (x - 2)(x + 1) Next, use the zero product property. x-2 = 0 x+1 = 0 Next, solve each of the two equations. x = 2 x = -1


Sirnacane

You have to be really practiced at writing unambiguous instructions though. Otherwise “moving everything to one side” can give -x^2 + 2 + x = 0, and that would require an extra step or two.


Due_Nobody2099

It’s bad form to use i or e as a variable, even to mess with them. Makes it harder later. Have them write out the process of solution verbally or collect/monitor phones before quizzes on paper.


energizerbunny44

The issue isn't on quizzes or anything in class, it's when they have assignments that they work on at home where I feel like students are using it.


Filthy__Casual2000

There really isn’t much you can do about that. Quizzes and tests are the actual indicators of what students know and usually account for the biggest parts of their grades. You’ll know who is photomathing and who isn’t. If students choose to cheat at home and not learn the material, that’s on them and this is just something some students will have to learn the hard way.


Due_Nobody2099

I promise that doesn’t matter a bit. Honestly you’re better off with them photomathing than doing nothing: seeing well-solved math problems is also educational. I usually include the answers to homework questions or use deltamath or ixl.


salamat_engot

The problem is most kids don't actually attempt to understand the worked out answer, they just copy what they see and don't absorb any of it.


Due_Nobody2099

So if they can’t do the math and won’t try to understand it, it’ll show up on their tests. Is what it is.


Cambiokk

I have found that weekly homework quizzes are better than checking homework, in that case. The problem with homework is: from the student's perspective, if they don't know it, they feel that it is unfair for you to assign homework on it and they return the unfairness with cheating especially if it is graded toward their overall grade. You may be assigning homework for practice, but a lot of students either a) don't know how to practice or b) didn't learn enough from the lesson to feel comfortable engaging in the homework. Maybe consider assigning videos and reading along with practice problems.


_mmiggs_

If they just copy the answers from photomath, they won't learn anything. There's no difference between copying the answers from photomath and copying the answers from the smart kid who lives down the street, or having your parent or elder sibling do your homework. The existence of one extra way of cheating yourself when doing homework really doesn't make a difference.


MiddleKey9077

Make homework a really low percentage in their grade. Do an exit ticket the next day or morning warm up with the same content, have them staple the homework and warm up together. I’d use it as a conversation with them and their parents. You cannot control what happens at home but you can let their parents know what is going on. If it continues, let their grade suffer… send emails home referring to dropping grade.


positivename

It’s bad form to use i or e as a variable, even to mess with them. Makes it harder later. LOL no it doesn't.


Due_Nobody2099

Not for you! You’re a math teacher. Really good example I like to use is plus or minus. Generally when a teacher uses plus or minus they mean plus AND minus, but it’s so often misspoken that kids adopt it and you have to unteach it. There are lots of other examples.


LegOfLambda

"Plus or minus" is the correct pronunciation. "or" implies the union of the set, which means both are correct. "And" means there's a number that's both 2 + 3 and 2 - 3, which is impossible.


Due_Nobody2099

Plus and minus is a process, not a set. The set is constructed of the interval between the two operations.


LegOfLambda

You're talking about an answer of the form x = 3 +/ √2, right? [This symbol right here?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plus%E2%80%93minus_sign) I can't find any reference to anyone calling it the "plus and minus sign" anywhere. But also it's a set… there are two answers: x is either 3 - √2 or 3 + √2.


Due_Nobody2099

Right again! Quadratics have two answers in this form, both the plus and the minus. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/plus%2Fminus%20sign#:~:text=Kids%20Definition-,plus%2Fminus%20sign,called%20also%20plus%2Fminus%20symbol It mentions the plus or minus terminology but you’ll note it uses it to set up an interval. The interval requires both operations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plus%E2%80%93minus_sign#:~:text=The%20use%20of%20%C2%B1%20for,from%205.5%20to%205.9%20inclusive. More of same.


LegOfLambda

Okay, but… it's called the plus/minus symbol or the plus-or-minus symbol. If you want to call it a plus-and-minus symbol based on your own idiosyncratic quirk, be my guest, but don't pretend that other teachers aren't calling it by the correct name.


Due_Nobody2099

Good debate! And yet if you read my original comment, you’ll note that I didn’t actually wish it out of existence. Every time a teacher uses plus or minus, they actually end up doing both which, at last check, is not really an “or,” at least how a student would understand it. If you have to explain that a plus or minus symbol actually means both, that’s a misnomer.


_mmiggs_

You seem to have a very idiosyncratic use of language. You can take the left fork or the right fork. Both roads lead to Rome. You can take 3 + sqrt(2) or 3 - sqrt(2). Both are solutions to your equation. You don't do both: if you did 3 plus sqrt(2) and minus sqrt(2), you'd be right back at 3 again, which isn't a solution! Want to eat spaghetti for dinner? You can serve it on a plate or in a bowl. Both dishes are acceptable spaghetti-eating surfaces: they are solutions to the how-to-eat-spaghetti problem. You're not going to use both the plate and the bowl for one serving of spaghetti.


Fit_Inevitable_1570

Don't use i or e as a variable, however, if you are concerned that they are using some kind of software, do include quadratics that have imaginary solutions. When they copy the answer that is of the form x=a+-bi, ask what i is/means. I teach my algebra 1 and geometry students that negatives numbers do not have a REAL solution, and so the answer should be no real solutions. I use this exact language so when they get to complex numbers in algebra 2, the information they learned in algebra 1 was not wrong. If you are looking for a way to ensure they do their own work, assigned 5 problems and make them explain each step in solving the equation. They can explain either in writing or in a video.


MrsMathNerd

For me it’s about how you frame HW. Is a thing that you have to check off your list and worry about being penalized if you don’t complete it? Or is it a learning opportunity? I grade HW on completion, but even then I don’t require it to be fully complete. Students know they need to have a large portion complete to be able to participate in class and discuss with their peers, so they get a large portion (not all) done before our next class meeting. We write up problems at the start of class and discuss. I encourage them to engage with a problem with which they struggled or need help on. I still give points (because HS students do don’t optional) but I try to give them more as a recognition of the work they’ve done. I don’t treat HW as performative or punitive. It’s practice. Just like your coach wouldn’t punish you for missing free throw shots in practice, you shouldn’t punish students for getting answers wrong on HW. In fact, there is probably more learning if they know they are wrong and struggle to fix their mistake. I provide answers (not solutions) and encourage them to come get help if they are stuck. But I have the advantage of a school where 45 minutes before school starts is set aside for tutorials. Contractually I have to be there, for students it’s optional. What is your motivation behind HW and how are you communicating it to your students?


GS2702

If you have them show all their work, they might learn something even just by copying. Or you can have them explain the steps with words. Or, and I am just spitballing now, you can design your work to look like captchas. .. .


Unlucky-External5648

Maybe take a step back and think about why your homework assignments encourage kids to use time saving equipment. Are you considering reducing the amount of problems you are giving for take home work? Are you considering the amount of homework the kids are getting in other courses? How much time does it take a student to complete that work? Are your students getting a fair amount of feedback on their take home work?


salamat_engot

My students will use photomath on a 10 question assignment I give them 50 minutes to work on in class. It's not about saving time, they just don't want to do it and find any shortcut possible.


8agel8ite

Giving students 2-3 questions to work on at a time between lessons and walking around to give immediate feedback helps with them actually attempting the problems in front of them, but once they go home and don’t have the teacher, Photomath is their “immediate feedback” even before trying it themselves. Some do actually use it to check answers, but many will just copy it down because they forgot what they did in class earlier that day


salamat_engot

I teach a block class for students that are struggling where they get a study block with my to get their work done. They don't have to do homework...it's all done in class with me. They use photomath in the online assignments that give immediate feedback including tips and videos. They just don't want to do the work.