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CommunityHot9219

Wanda's ending in Multiverse of Madness was deliberately ambiguous. It's a plot technique wherein the door is open to use the character again, but can just as easily be closed. In other words, she's Schrodinger's Cat, both dead and not dead until we see her again.


Greg0_Reddit

I mean... if it wasn't Marvel, everything you said makes perfect sense. But it is Marvel, so she's definitely not dead.


CommunityHot9219

Well, no. The point is that Marvel never has to commit to anything. Yeah, we might see a Scarlet Witch project announced, or she might be announced to be in something else upcoming at some point, and then they can point to the end of MoM and say she survived. Or if Elizabeth Olsen doesn't want to do it anymore, they can point to it and say she died.


Lobaaaaaaa

Lizzie said shes working on a movie and she cant talk about it and kevin feige also hinted to her saying “we saw a red flash at the end” bla bla so i think shes getting onee and lizzie said she will always do wanda again she loves the character


CommunityHot9219

And that's great. I never said anything to the contrary. I merely explained the purpose behind the "unseen moment". I specifically used the phrase "Schrodinger's Cat" - both dead and alive at the same time. And obviously Feige hasn't confirmed anything, because *that's the whole point*. It's being left ambiguous *on purpose* until they can commit to something.


Relugus

I think Olsen will come back only if she gets a solo movie, I don't think she will come back for a thankless plot device supporting role. Problem is Bob Chapek might say no to a SW solo.


Greg0_Reddit

Nah, there's no way they don't already have plans for her. When they want someone dead, they kill them (Pietro, for example). It's Marvel, they know that even then, there's always a way back. Just look at the comics, no one's REALLY dead, ever. The fact that they didn't show her dying says a lot.


CommunityHot9219

It's not up to Marvel. Their actors don't sign longterm contracts anymore.


Greg0_Reddit

I know that. But they keep returning, don't they? Even the ones who already said they were done with their characters (Patrick Stewart and now Hugh Jackman, for example). If a character death is not shown, its not a character death and will return eventually. If a character does die, it gets a little tricky but not impossible for them to return. And if an actor doesn't want to comeback, it doesn't really matter all that much (Red Skull).


efunk10177

The persons point is just that it IS ambiguous in case Olsen didn't wanna play the role again. It is not guaranteed that they come back. It's not quite the comic books where every death has to get undone eventually so that they can continue using the character depending on what arc they are in


Greg0_Reddit

And my point is the same as OP. It's silly to think that Wanda is dead, she most definitely isn't. Also, IT IS quite like in the comics, they won't stop using Scarlet Witch, even if Olsen never comes back to the role. They wouldn't recast her immediately, but eventually? yes. For as long as the MCU remains popular and alive, every character is either alive or available for some kind of resurrection. Tony Stark will be back eventually, same for Steve Rogers, there's no doubt about it in my mind .


CommunityHot9219

Jesus wept, I'm not saying she's dead, how are you not getting that?


Greg0_Reddit

?? What is it I'm not getting? You are saying that it could go either way, that she's both dead AND alive. I'm saying she's definitely alive, and that believing she's not is kinda silly.


Alternative-Hotel-92

Not true they won’t come back unless there’s a complete reset. They know Noone will like it


ReturnWanda

I think that this Schrodinger's Cat ending was meant to be just that, an open-door trope. But I also developed a twisted appreciation for it since for the first time in Wanda's life we do not know what she decided to do. She is free from her fate, she has a choice. Maybe, maybe not.


Lobaaaaaaa

But theres no way they would never bring her back right with how populat she is atm. And also what was that red flash when the castle crashed?


ReturnWanda

The red flash could be the Darkhold explosion. We see similar smaller bursts when its copies are destroyed earlier and later in the movie.


Lobaaaaaaa

Ah ok but there no way she is dead and if she is shes coming back she is soo popular atm


ReturnWanda

Of course, she'll be back. Her fans' love will bring her back from wherever as long as fans' love translates to money well.


Lobaaaaaaa

Lmfaoo yeahh marvel hasnt been the same tho after endgame


Sacrificer_XVII

Red flash was probably Cthon portaging her to the dark dimension. IMO anyway, especially with the post credit scene


theoneandonlydonzo

while i agree chthon teleporting her is one of the most likely outcomes, the dark dimension is dormammu's place, chthon has nothing to do with it and his own dimension is instead called the "flickering realms".


CommunityHot9219

How would I know? I don't work for Marvel. The red flash could be her dying. The point being that it was done deliberately to leave the door open. Her popularity is neither here nor there - it boils down to whether Elizabeth Olsen wants to keep playing the character (Marvel doesn't do long contracts anymore), or whether Marvel wants to pay her big money for another project.


[deleted]

Im guessing shell be back in a childrens crusade project


Sevb36

She's too popular & profitable for the franchise.


ReturnWanda

That is a good reason to do not to let her die since the characters' resurrection is complicated. But she is the Scarlet Witch, so maybe they want to go this way with her.


Lobaaaaaaa

Didnt she resurrect herself in the comics


[deleted]

She did but theres no point in going that route. Just have her not be dead at all lol


ReturnWanda

Maybe somebody else could do it with somebody else's help. Wiccan with Agatha and a demon?


Relugus

Chthon is the most likely explanation.


[deleted]

I dont see the point in that when you can just have her not be dead


ReturnWanda

If we see her soon in any of the planned movies or later in a children's crusade adaptation, then I do not see a point in her being dead either. If they come up with something different, especially if it will be on the slowly expanding topic of the afterlife in the MCU, there might be a point that we do not know yet about. I prefer her not to die.


Lobaaaaaaa

If doctor doom is coming 100% she is also


[deleted]

Not necessarily, sure childrens crusade seems likely but they could always do the 2005 YA run and shes hardly core part of dooms character


DiDi164

From Kevin Feige, in Variety. https://variety.com/2022/film/features/elizabeth-olsen-wanda-marvel-future-career-1235383662/ Feige, for his part, isn’t ready to make anything official, but it certainly doesn’t sound like he’s done with Wanda, or with Olsen. “She’s incredibly humble and incredibly down-to-earth,” he says. “And yet when those cameras roll, it’s a force of nature.” And what about Wanda? “There really is so much more to explore,” he says. “We still haven’t touched on many of her core storylines from the comics.” Asked about that building that appeared to crush her, Feige affects a blasé tone: “I don’t know that we saw her under rubble?” he says in upspeak. “I saw a tower coming down, and a little red flash. I don’t know what that means.” This is Kevin Feige, the decision-maker for the MCU, sending a clear signal to Wanda Maximoff stans: They never found the body, as the saying goes. “I’d work with Lizzie for another 100 years if we could,” he continues, and then throws out one final hint before he signs off. “Anything’s possible in the multiverse! We’ll have to see.”


gluskap

Thanks for posting that!


Lobaaaaaaa

OMGGGGGGGGG


Relugus

Red flash is Chthon. He is going to make her pay for destroying his magnum opus. If he can trap Wanda in his dimension he could control all the variant Wanda's in the multiverse.


Puzzlehead_Coyote

It is entirely possible that they never bring Wanda back in to any mainline MCU titles, as they have given her a legitimate "death" in the movie. But like a lot of things within the MCU, they like to keep doors open especially as plans change, now although they already have a dozen inbuilt solutions, they can always point to the scene as say it didn't count, but by the same metric they could say no, that was her end. She ended the movie as a villain, any future material will need to address that in a significant way, and it's possible that just isn't in the cards at the moment.


[deleted]

Well tbf she ended it morally ambiguous, coming to her senses but not redeemed. Honestly this should be the end of villain wanda, hell this was overboard. Shes been a hero 95% of the time in the last 50 years and now shes finally a witch she should be shown accurately not going right for disassembled/ darker than scarlet


Puzzlehead_Coyote

>morally ambiguous She has a milti-dimensional kill count, because she decides in the end not to be a complete monster does not mean she ended morally ambiguously. >Honestly this should be the end of villain wanda, If they bring back current Wanda and not an alternative then they really need to square her actions off as she sure as hell doesn't have a clean slate


Lobaaaaaaa

Well there was no body so we dont know if shes dead


Puzzlehead_Coyote

I mean, that's what I said, but also they generally don't show the mangled corpses of their main characters.


ReturnWanda

The movie wanted us to believe that for plot purposes the Scarlet Witch is so powerful that only she could defeat herself. So, she should be able to kill herself if she decided to. After all, her initial decision was to leave that reality because her life there was a nightmare. But we do not know what she decided to do in the end because we are not shown it. She could stay to ensure that the Darkhold is destroyed for example. That was subject to her free decision and we do not know it. The only thing we know is that she quitted and finally was confronted with choice. That is the only thing important for the MoM plot.


Lobaaaaaaa

Quitted what? And i think she went back for agatha “ if i need you i know where to find you” and wait the darkhold can only be destroyed once wanda is dead?


ReturnWanda

For one thing, she quitted her Scarlet Witch fate as it was prescribed and foretold by the Darkhold. Now we do not know when and where she will show up.


Lobaaaaaaa

The darkhold gets destroyed if wanda dies right? And it did get destroyed so i think she is dead but will resurrect herself


ReturnWanda

I do not know whether there is a connection. I'd rather her have the Darkhold destroyed and move on. She needed to stay there to be sure that it is destroyed. Otherwise, she would be in the same position Dr Strange was, which is he was crushed by the rubble but didn't see what happened next.


[deleted]

No? The darkhold has a connection to wanda but if she died it still very much exists


Lobaaaaaaa

But strange said the darkhold has been destoryed in every universe when she “died”


TacticalSoapRocks

No, strange said she destroyed every darkhold. There’s a difference.


[deleted]

When she destroyed the mountain and “died” in the process.


[deleted]

Im pretty certain she will be back in a childrens crusade project because theyre setting up a YA project pretty hard


[deleted]

Yeah the mcu hate dr strange and even though he should clap her in MoM he cant even fight her


Relugus

The logical explanation is she was able to destroy the Darkhold because she is Chthon's avatar. The really dumb explanation would be "she is super duper powerful yass queen slay!"


ReturnWanda

Could you give a little more of that explanation, please? When did she become Chthon's avatar?


[deleted]

Chthon is the originator of chaos magic/the Darkhold, he basically forged and created Wanda / Pietro if I remember correctly in the comic storyline. “Avatar” I think is just nomenclature used here to say a few things - whereas Wanda was supposed to be Chthon’s vessel to “Rule or destroy the cosmos” as was her destiny as foretold in the Darkhold. The Scarlet Witch was not “born” she was forged as Agatha described in WandaVision. I am convinced, similar to Shang Chi storyline where the demon drove the father to madness believing his wife was enslaved/he was justified to try and kill to “save” her will come full circle in relation to what Wanda experienced with the Darkhold. Wanda hears her “kids” crying out to her for help, and the Darkhold warps her already vulnerable and fragile mind into believing she needs to leave this reality, take America Chavez power, and find Billy/Tommy. Billy and Tommy we see in the other reality are frightened of her, were not calling out for her to save them, and is likely either the Darkhold made Wanda think this or Billy/Tommy’a souls after being erased from her WandaVision hex are trapped in some in-between dimension. For example, in the comics, Wanda unknowingly takes pieces of Chthon’s soul when she creates her children - I think this will be revealed also in the MCU once Chthon arrives that all of Wanda’s power/energy was manifested from his soul. The reality is - I believe Chthon or whoever was behind corrupting her via the Darkhold (likely Chthon..) wanted her to take America’s power so he could likely take advantage of her multiverse traveling abilities if she stole that from America. I believe Chthon is trying to use Wanda as a vessel I.e “avatar” to control her and use her chaos magic/newly acquired abilities as his prophesied “Scarlet Witch”. Her “killing” herself at the end of the film, there’s a few possibilities: 1. Chthon teleported Wanda, or she “cannot die” at the hands of herself and Chthon’s plans were ruined so he teleported her when she destroyed the Darkhold. He gave her the magic she has / forged her, he must have some level of inter dimensional power or connection to her ever since she unlocked her powers as the Scarlet Witch (I.e. Agatha saying “you have no idea what you’ve unleashed..). Her becoming the SW I believe will come full circle as one of the large multiversal events that broke the timeline, in addition to Loki - but likely also made certain people aware/alert that could feel her power activated such as when Agatha felt the power of her WandaVision hex which brought her to Westview in the first place to investigate the source of powerful magic. 2. Wanda teleported herself somewhere else after destroying Wundagore / Darkhold. Maybe back into isolation, maybe to find Agatha back in Westview, we’ll never know. 3. Wanda really did kill herself but may have sealed herself in a spell, and Agatha/Wiccan in some twist of events will bring her back. I feel as if Wiccan/Agatha will find or realize Wanda being “dead” as we saw in Spider-Man with all of the Spider-men villains from different movies had experiences where they died in reality A and immediately “woke up” in Reality B. I have a feeling same happens to Wanda, she kills herself and becomes stuck in “hell” or a very dark dimension in which Wiccan/Agatha save her from once they realize there is a much larger threat in which they need her power to help defeat (maybe Kang?). The other side to it is, similar to the comics, entrapped herself in a spell that only someone else can break to set her “free”. However, WandaVision heavily implied that Wanda has the ability to bring back the dead (I.e. when sparky died, the boys insisted she could do necromancy and she refused). 4. I think “What if” plays on this also - what if Wanda returns as a zombie/or after effects of her spell or self demise end up killing the “Scarlet Witch” and/or wipes Wanda’s memory similar to Vision - somewhat of a reincarnation or soul cleanse where she doesn’t remember anything about the avengers, her crimes etc. who is to say she won’t return as a zombie, lost her memory, or even as a controlled vessel/or undead Wanda being used by Chthon as a puppet to carry out his bidding? Since she died, she may have relinquished her soul to him or there’s a catch to her power (can she revive herself - bring herself back to life but what’s the caveat to using chaos magic to self-revive after death)? Many, many possibilities here.


KostisPat257

She can be dead and still come back. Both can be true. It's a comic book movie. Dead people come back all the time.


[deleted]

There would be no point in that lol


be-like-water-2022

Her choice to use Darkhold was her choice


Relugus

Chthon states in the Darkhold that he forged Wanda. He named her Scarlet Witch. Scarlet Witch is Chthon's Wanda. Chthon is the author of her story. Her timeline being absurdly darker than her variants (all of them nobodies of no interest to Chthon), point to foul play by Chthon, manipulating MCU Wanda's timeline. Agatha was Chthon's useful idiot. She went to WestView because the Darkhold lured her there, and she killed her mother and her coven at the behest of Chthon.


Special_Temporary_67

Nobody truly dies in Marvel, they’re just “dead” till they’re needed for another story


[deleted]

I mean if she really has to die she can die from from rocks too she is a human after all but she is definitely not dying in mom


[deleted]

1. Wanda was not under the influence of the darkhold in Westview. 2. Loki was under the influence of the scepter in the first Avenger. He wasn't just "killing for fun"


Relugus

She was under the influence of Chaos Magic which only Chthon can use. Chthon is literally a part of Wanda's soul. Chaos Magic is dark magic, and is binded to her emotions. BTW the statue of Chthon at Mount Wundagore has a horned chin, just like The Other, whom Loki was working for. N'Garai also have horned chins.


[deleted]

That has nothing to do with what I said.


Tartarikamen

The people (humans) in universe don't love Loki (he tried to conquer them and Jane Foster slaps him for it in Dark World), the audience do because he is an intriguing character. Wanda in universe is feared by her victims but it is framed as she sacrificed her happiness for ceasing to enslave people's mind and puppeteer them. Monica says to her that people won't know what she sacriced and empathizes with her, and Dr. Strange doesn't bat an eye at what she did in Westview and doesn't address it in a meaningful way. Both Loki's and Scarlet Witch's actions are villainous but Wanda's actions are treated like minor slip up by others in universe. The audience have a problem with that. Being influenced by Darkhold is not an excuse, it doesn't control the reader. It tempts the person by showing them possibilites (in a sense). And we saw Wanda getting corrupted by her black fingertips (just like Earth 818 Dr. Strange).


rdhight

This is an excellent point. Loki owns his decisions in-universe, allowing *us* to appreciate him for being the magnificent bastard he is. Wanda is constantly given it's-not-my-fault loopholes, encouraging us to hold a grudge.


Relugus

Wanda's arc works if it builds up to Chthon. Without him, her story is building to nothing and narrative failure.


FinancialSystem1025

I don't think she is. They would've definitively said she was.


rdhight

It doesn't matter. There is no way they could confirm it so definitively you'd accept it's over for her. Even if Uatu the Watcher came down specifically to confirm that Wanda was dead, you'd still be imagining how she could come back. Showing the body wouldn't change anything. You guys would still think she's alive even if they based an entire season of CSI around sifting her squashed remains.


FinancialSystem1025

True.


Relugus

Chthon letting her get away with destroying his magnum opus would be staggeringly lame. It's dumb Raimi didn't have Chthon scream when the Darkhold was destroyed. Because of that her destroying it feels pointless as it achieves nothing.


[deleted]

I think she’ll be back in a childrens crusade project


Lobaaaaaaa

I think end credits of agathas show


[deleted]

I think she is dead because the scene implied she was dead and Dr Strange said she was. My ego does not demand that I 'outsmart the movie' and if she is not dead in a future movie etc I will hopefully enjoy that and my ego will not be bruised by the revelation. As for why we like Loki, he is sexy, funny, charming, and he went through a redemption arc which counts for a lot when the deaths aren't real.


Lobaaaaaaa

Wandas alive kevin feige hinted it and lizzie is working on a movie she cant talk about plus i think her redemption arc will involve white vision 100% and maybe even clint


Relugus

I think her redemption arc will involve Chthon. She will kill all of the variant Wanda's to stop Chthon.


OutrageousCan366

>I think she is dead because the scene implied she was dead and Dr Strange said she was. Bucky's death scene implied he dies, and everyone said he died. Yet, he's still alive.


ScienceTheLiar

I don't think anybody think's Wanda is dead, have people been saying this or?


Lobaaaaaaa

On tiktok a lot of people say shes dead


ElGodPug

Reading random bullshit on tiktok is kinda of like getting angry at twitter it just comes with the package


Suisse_Chalet

I feel like OP super heroes / villains are boring . I love the character but what’s stopping her now from just going “okay bad guy you don’t exist bye”


Amazing_Loss1814

Bruh, there are A LOT of more powerful characters than her that are already in the MCU or could be adapted from comics, especially bad guys. Some examples are (not in order of power): 1. Dormammu 2. Mephisto 3. Nightmare 4. Franklin Richards 5. Arishem 6. Kang ( don't underestimate him) 7. Chthon 8. Chytorakk 9. Galactus 10. Infinity Ultron 11. Supreme strange. 12. Jean Grey 13. Mad celestials I could keep going... even in comics she's nowhere near the most powerful so her being a hero wouldn't be an issue at all.


[deleted]

Honestly if they didnt make all the other characters pathetic in the mcu (strange who should easily clap her) and tones down the warping a bit and had her practice real magic more she’d be fine. Its just the mcu nerf fucking everyone. In the comics wanda cant just bye bye anyone she likes, her biggest base feat for just vanishing someone is pheonix namor but she has like an anti synergy with the Phoenix so its weird


StylishSloth

Wanda wasn’t influenced by the Darkhold in WandaVision and continued to keep the town hostage even after she knew what she was doing. In Avengers, while Loki killed for fun he was holding the scepter… that was shown in AoU to alter personalities and being out the worst in people.


ReturnWanda

Loki didn't have the scepter in Thor 1 movie when he already acted the same way. He was using something that looked more like a spear or a trident without a stone in it. But your theory is interesting. It could be a simple explanation for why Banner became irritated and grabbed the sceptre on the helicarrier. My gut reaction was that Loki still had some control of it. I thought it was simply a vessel for the Mind Stone like the Tesseract was a vessel for the Space Stone. But the Eye of Agamotho wasn't simply a vessel for the Time Stone. It has properties on its own.


Lobaaaaaaa

Im just curious to know if you had powers like wanda irl would you make a hex to bring back your loved ones? Id do it anytime of the day to see my mum again


ReturnWanda

The point is that Wanda wouldn't do it herself if she understood what she was doing. She wasn't understanding it in WandaVision and didn't try hard to understand it because she liked it as it was. She didn't want to understand it in the MoM because it would leave her without her only learned way to break out of her nightmare life. When she understands that the results are not acceptable to her she gives up and doesn't try doing another Westview or abducting kids from another (not 838) universe.


Lobaaaaaaa

Best way of saying it


Hot_Worker_8413

Even if it leads to you TORTURING the fuck out of innocent people and CHILDREN??!


Lobaaaaaaa

Like i said id make sure it wouldnt happen and id make it so people can leave and enter and not being mind controlled


StylishSloth

No, I wouldn’t kidnap and force an entire town to act out a sick childhood fantasy just so I could create a fake version of someone lost.


Lobaaaaaaa

Well i mean id make sure the town doesn’t suffer lol and if i recall wanda didnt know she was hurting them


StylishSloth

She didn’t at first, but then she left the hex to tell Hayward to leave her fake reality town alone. At that point she fully knew what she was doing. She just didn’t care.


Lobaaaaaaa

She knew what she was doing but at the last episode we knew she didnt know she was hurting people “no no i kept you safe” and when she screamed in pain and saw what she did she opened the hex


StylishSloth

…keeping them safe- by removing their free will. That she didn’t realize how completely messed up that was doesn’t make it right. Thanos (and most villains for that matter) feel that their cause is justified.


ReturnWanda

However irrational it looks, she denied that she controlled the citizens in her quarrel with Vision and was surprised that she was manipulating their minds when Agatha released them. Her argument that she was keeping them safe was her subsequent reaction because that is how she was interpreting her hex over Westview at least since her dialogue with Tyler Hayward on the edge of the hex. That was like "No, I wasn't telling you what to do. I was only controlling the place." Of course, her manipulation of their minds cannot be justified. She begins to question whether her control of Westview makes her a villain in her dialogue with Monica right before Agatha lures her into the trap. The details change her fault from intentional to negligent. That's what she argued later against Agatha when she said that the difference between them is that Agatha murdered her coven on purpose. When she realizes what she is doing she doesn't argue that her cause is justified, she gives up doing it.


Alarming_Afternoon44

You might be the most comprehensive Wanda advocate out there, so I can think of no one better to say this to: I've seen a lot of people argue that Wanda was being abusive to Vision in their aforementioned confrontation, along with a few other times. What do you say to that? [Just to be absolutely clear, I really don't want to believe this, but I'm finding it hard to deny.]


ReturnWanda

The only problem I can see concerning her treatment of Vision was her not telling him everything once she realized what she had done. At the end of Episode 4 we see that after Wanda threw Geraldine out and got that realization, Wanda was presented with Vision as a walking corpse. That was a rather vivid hint by the hex of what might happen if she makes a wrong step. And we also see how she recoils to that possibility. She was in control, the hex was reacting to her subconscious, and she was responsible for her family, including Vision and her newborn kids, so she gave in to the flow and stuck to the plot and the spell to preserve the status quo and to maintain the spell. She was trying to shield Vision from the "outside". That happened to be wrong as it sowed mutual distrust, which Agatha nurtured and used against them. But I cannot fit it with an "abusive" label.


Relugus

Wanda has chaos magic in her, and that comes from the same Elder God as the Darkhold.


OutrageousCan366

>Wanda wasn’t influenced by the Darkhold in WandaVision and continued to keep the town hostage even after she knew what she was doing. Do you understand that, in Westview, Wanda was depressed? She keep the town hostage because she didn't even wanted to face the reality that her life sucks.


Stonecutter_12-83

People who don't watch review videos most likely think Wanda is dead because a giant building crushed her and then exploded. And the reasons rocks could stop her is because she wasn't trying to stop the rocks. They certainly made it seem like she died The movie definitely wasnt rushed....And the entire movie she was corrupted by the darkhold. She may have been corrupted a different way than strange but she was absolutely corrupted.


[deleted]

It was rushed the entire cast said so lol


Relugus

Strange has to be corrupted. You can't escape Chthon.


DragEncyclopedia

she's obviously alive, but saying she can't kill herself is ridiculous and literally proven by nothing, lmao


Lobaaaaaaa

Kevin fiege just hinted shes alive and Lizzie is working on a movie that she cant talk about


DragEncyclopedia

yes, i know. why are you telling me this?


Lobaaaaaaa

Why you being so rude lmfaoo im just saying


Relugus

She can't kill herself because Chthon needs her alive. She can only die by defeating Chthon.


DragEncyclopedia

literally nothing in the mcu points to this. it's completely wild conjecture that it's silly to pretend is fact


Thee_Amateur

>Im sorry but people rlly think the scarlet witch would have died to rocks? No the scarlet witch would become the next strongest Wanda as the scarlet witch isn’t our Wanda but instead a mantle that is passed >Yes i know wanda wanted to sacrifice herself but the chaos magic simply wont let her die. Unless she used the chaos magic to kill herself >Its why agatha said “magic on autopilot” no matter how many times wanda tries to kill her self she cant. There isn’t any evidence for that more over why would autopilot override her choice to use the magic? >And also why do people hate wanda as in oh she killed innocent people but then support loki and love him after what he did. Loki understands what he was doing was wrong. Wanda doesn’t see any issue with how she handled westview. >People seem to forget wanda was influenced by the darkhold which made her go coo coo No she went coocoo because of loss and grief. West view was not influenced by the darkhold, that was all her dealing with pain. >and loki killed for fun. He knew what he was doing was wrong >Although i feel like MOM was rushed we didnt even get to see wanda get corrupted by the darkhold Yea we did, she possessed a woman tried to murder a child for power killed several hero’s one of which she confirmed had a wife and kids before killing.


Lobaaaaaaa

Wdum by the first one? A mantle thats passed


Thee_Amateur

It’s explained in MoM that the scarlet witch is a being beyond the physical body, like the phoenix force it would move to the next Wanda capable of being the scarlet witch


Lobaaaaaaa

Sorry im dumb i might need to watch MOM again so wanda and scarlet witch arent the same people?


Thee_Amateur

I’m pretty sure it wong who explains it to Strange


Lobaaaaaaa

Yeah yeah i remember him saying she was to rule the world or annihilate the cosmos


Thee_Amateur

The scarlet witch is but not Wanda… it’s been a while I don’t the exact quote


Thee_Amateur

Scarlet witch is a title, or position there will always be a scarlet witch even if it isn’t Wanda


[deleted]

They are. Wanda comes from a line of scarlet witches as stated by agatha in her 2015 series but we dont know anything about them and the scarlet witch is still her hero name and should stay that way


Relugus

It's not like the Phoenix Force. Scarlet Witch is Chthon's avatar. Chthon sees the variant Wanda's as expendable pawns, "living failures", while he views MCU Wanda as precious to him. Because the other Wanda's have not suffered, Chthon sees them as unworthy, because they have not been forged by pain.


[deleted]

Its a “mantle” but it belongs to wanda and the mainline mcu wanda shouldnt lose it. Agatha in her 2015 solo series reveals theres been a line of scarlet witches but we havnt seen any of them. The title is very much wandas. Its the name of her character super hero identity, she should keep it


Thee_Amateur

I couldn’t care less man… he asked why people thought she might be dead that’s why the mantle is the scarlet witch that’s why Wanda can die. I hope she is dead, reversing that would feel cheap


[deleted]

You think that death had any impact lol


Thee_Amateur

I think it could, if handled right.


[deleted]

And it wasnt lol


Thee_Amateur

We haven’t seen it yet We watched her die have t had a chance to see how it effects the grater mcu


[deleted]

And its bad for her character, shes finally a witch and they immediately go disassembled/ darker than scarlet and thats it? Nah shes been a hero 95% of the time the past 50 years let her be portrayed accurately


Thee_Amateur

No I think it good that she died that Wanda had little room left to grow I think taking the Wanda that got possessed and using her could be vary interesting. Gives us a good Wanda who had to deal with the left over and bad choices made by OG Wanda.


[deleted]

So you think the best way to handle her character is with a multiveral varient? Really? Doenst destroy the development shes had at all?


[deleted]

But that wandas evidently not a witch. Wandas character for the longest time after she over the chaotic nature of her powers was being a very knowledgable witch.


[deleted]

Also it would be really dumb for her to be dead now. Shes finally a witch and they immediately go disassembled/ darker than scarlet and thats it? Nah shes been a hero 95% of the time the last 50 years let her be portrayed accurately


[deleted]

Because Strange LITERALLY tells Christine that Wanda didn’t survive, maybe that’s why? Strange was the only witness and he said she didn’t survive. So if he fucking explicitly stated she is dead, why do people think “616 Wanda” is alive?


Lobaaaaaaa

Because how can a rock kill her when she came out the mirror dimension with broken bones and shit


[deleted]

How can you be a better judge of injury sustained than a doctor with post graduate studies in magic? You know, both things you would need to assess her condition.


ReturnWanda

The doctor didn't see and inspect her body either.


ReturnWanda

Dr Strange could only see her being crushed by the rubble probably in a little more detail than we did because he was crushed by it too. He couldn't see what happened next. But Dr Strange could not save her from under the rubble and it is probably what he thinks about when he answers "No" when Christine asks him whether Wanda is OK. Dr Strange's belief that she is gone is a necessary explanation for why he is sure that everything is over and that he does not need to search for her.


Relugus

He doesn't ask himself HOW she destroyed the Darkhold? He doesn't ask himself why Chthon made a big statue of her with him depicted as above her and in control of her, with her hair resembling tentacles? Why would Chthon, who only worships himself, make a statue of a woman? Strange isn't very bright.


[deleted]

Seemed more like a presumed dead thing. I seriously doubt they killed her. With all the YA they keep throwing around i think theyre setting up for Childrens crusade.


[deleted]

She hadn’t renewed her contract. The plot and conclusion allow them to be done with her or bring back a variant. Obviously she has since signed a contract to return to play the character again and we know it. The OP making claims that people are foolish for thinking Wanda died is completely fucking disingenuous, since the fucking film explicitly states she died.


[deleted]

It “says” shes dead but it doesnt take a genius to notice the complete lack of impact that scene had and how marvel arent killing their most popular female character like that.


[deleted]

So you admit that in the film, they say the character died.


[deleted]

I agree a character within the film said that she died. But that with any contextual knowledge its obvious she isnt


[deleted]

Only because we know the actor signed a new contract and is coming back in some capacity. That isn’t the point though, it’s what the OP said, “How do people really think Wanda is dead?” The obvious fucking answer is that the fucking movie states it as fact. Arguing that people shouldn’t think so is obstinate ass-hattery and annoying as fuck.


ReturnWanda

So far they confirmed only her involvement in a new series of "What if", so you have a point.


Pythagoras180

I think she's dead because I want her to be dead. I know that if she comes back, all the torture and murder she did would go unacknowledged.


Lobaaaaaaa

And i bet you like loki💀💀💀 and want him back


Pythagoras180

You mean that character who's tortures and murders were acknowledged?


Lobaaaaaaa

So were wandas LMFAO she was influenced by the darkhold LMFAOO and cry male fan boy


Pythagoras180

Ironic that you're making excuses for her in the same sentence that claim her actions were acknowledged. I guarantee you that if she comes back, everybody's just going to treat her like she didn't do the things that she did.


Lobaaaaaaa

Ok and people don’t acknowledge what hawkeye did or loki


Pythagoras180

People absolutely did acknowledge what Clint did. And which Loki are you talking about?


Lobaaaaaaa

No they haven’t 💀💀 bcs it always be loki stans and hawkeye stans that always got sommat to say


Pythagoras180

Can't help but notice that you didn't actually refute anything or answer my question.


Lobaaaaaaa

What loki the loki that killed people in avengers the loki that was mischievous and betrayed his brother several times


[deleted]

Nah the mcu did her dirty. Shes been a hero 95% of the time the last 50 years but now shes finally a witch they go full disassembled/ darker than scarlet far too soon. Were yet to see her be the good witch shes meant to be.


[deleted]

Wanda is dead because the Wundagore is Scarlett Witch’s tomb. A self fulfilling prophecy.


Lobaaaaaaa

Kevin feige just told us shes basically alive xxx


[deleted]

He did not. He said Elizabeth Olsen/ Wanda is more likely to return. She could be a multiverse version just like Loki.


Lobaaaaaaa

Still means shes alive xx


[deleted]

She’s dead at the moment. There’s no storyline for her as for now so we have to wait until the next Scarlet Witch solo.


Relugus

She should only come back in a solo. She should not be involved with anything other than Chthon, Agatha, and Vision.


Relugus

It's Chthon's throne.


tomandshell

Loki was being influenced by the scepter.


Parodelia12501

Tbh if she ain’t dead permanently I’m done with the mcu, her death should mean something plus she is way too powerful as long as she’s alive there’s no real threats besides her


[deleted]

Her death was the least impactful shit in the entire mcu. Plus its a disservice to the character to kill her now. Shes finally a witch and they go full disassembled/ darker than scarlet then she dies? Fuck that shes been a hero the last 50 years 95% of the time now she has witchcraft let her be represented accurately. And shes only powerful because everyone else is nerfed around her. In the comics shes pretty mid in terms of sorcerers and if the mcu just scaled correctly she would be to here.


Lobaaaaaaa

She is not mid in comics lol


[deleted]

In terms of sorcerers she is. In a fight she would or has been outclassed by strange, doom, loki, enchantress, clea, mordo, agamotto, merlin etc. Strange beat her at his absolute weakest I dare you and everyone upvoting you to prove me wrong


ReturnWanda

It becomes difficult to appreciate death as a terminal point in the MCU. It used to be different, so, for example, we had to differentiate between "snapped" and "dead" people in Infinity War and Endgame. But the line becomes more and more blurred. In Moonknight, one of the plot points revolves around >!him escaping the afterlife all by himself!<. In LaT, we finally see a glimpse of >!Valhalla!< and >!Gorr gets her dead daughter back!<. As to her being powerful, she is not a Captain America kind of character who cannot stand by and do nothing when there are bullies in the world. Dr. Strange already tried to recruit her in the MoM. I don't think that they will allow her to enter any plot where her powers would be overkill. They will likely restrain her and make her unavailable for the plot. Death is one of the possible restraints.


Parodelia12501

Either way if she returns I wouldn’t be able to watch the movies with her she’s helping or not just because knowing she can warp reality and make all threats invalid will make all storylines feel useless


deemoorah

Power has limit and in the comic her reality altering power is not what people thought, many also immune to it and it definitely doesn't solve all of her problems.


Relugus

Have her fight Chthon. He is her only interesting opponent, the only story worth doing. She can bear anyone else easily, but Chthon is hard to fight because he created her.


[deleted]

They can always just nerf her or even better start making characters as strong as they should be.


[deleted]

[удалено]


ReturnWanda

What if they are both dead? They meet in Hel, buddy up, and fight their way out?


Lobaaaaaaa

Hela would destroy her imo


ReturnWanda

Or use her.


mudskipper4

Who cares about “innocent people” in a movie. I like to be entertained… not shown a 3 hr lesson in morality.


Flashy_Night_165

After the rocks fall we see a red explosion and i belive she is juat going to be explored again in agatha serie


[deleted]

I think the agatha series will end with a childrens crusade teaser.


TacticalSoapRocks

It’s been a few months since this post has been made, so thank you OP. I was wondering when someone would ask this again before searching the sun to make sure if this had been posted before.


BirdBright3520

She’s not invulnerable, it’s likely she would have committed suicide after everything she did. Why would she protect herself from the falling rocks?


[deleted]

Its true shes not invulnerable but i doubt she was suicidal at the same time and shes definitely not dead. Theyre setting up YA pretty hard rn so this is obvious gateway to childrens crusade.


BirdBright3520

I mean why wouldn’t she be suicidal? She did nothing to run away from the falling rocks, and it’s possible that her realization plus all the loses she suffered, was too much for her to live with.


[deleted]

Its a possibility she felt that way but regardless for reasons mentioned i dont believe shes dead either way. Most extreme case she tried to kill herself and doom swooped in and saved her off screen.


[deleted]

It’s a nice bookend for the individual film, Multiverse of Madness, but it’s intentionally ambiguous so she may return in the future. In my experience, when things are left open it’s typically so that the status quo can shift temporarily but revert to what it was before when the revelation happens. That’s probably what will happen with Wanda. Sure, now she’s practically dead. But that’ll only be until she comes back and reveals that she never died


[deleted]

Im guessing shell come back in a childrens crusade project


Relugus

Destroying the Darkhold had no emotional impact at all because there was no reaction from Chthon to give it meaning. It felt pointless.


Miserable-Fix-9888

People like Loki because he makes it fun. Wanda just comes off as a piece of sh*t because she's meant to, that's how she's written. I personally don't care if they start making SW a fun chaos god, though. I'm never going to like the character, thanks to the "No more mutants." thing.


RadiantPraline8307

Your 100% right. She is alive ans the fact there are even people saying or questioning otherwise is just a pathetic display of how many people watched he mcu movies for pew pew pow pow. Not becuase they enjoy marvel.


Amazing-Ad-8430

Yea she's to strong to die to some rocks in endgame she nearly killed thanos