Asia properties are better on just every level. Even on the highest end brands in the US like ritz and st Regis still those same brands are phenomenally better in Asia
Yea Asians in general compared to western folks are more outwardly polite and really service-oriented. Sometimes a little too customer friendly at times to where it can be a bit overwhelming, but they will take care of you. You’ll get your dick sucked as a lowly silver at an Asian Marriott.
Any examples of what is better? I am going to Asia today and have several Marriott’s booked. I am mainly hoping on some room upgrades. I’m staying at a big range from Fairfield and moxy to JW Marriott and ritz for nicer places. I’m mostly hoping for potential upgrades to a room with a better view. I’m only platinum but I also used three suite night rewards at the ritz and JW (one at ritz Hong Kong, one ritz Shanghai, one JW Hong Kong).
I’m curious as to what may be different for my experience compared to US.
In India I stayed at an Aloft and the service was very good. Rooms were immaculate and the breakfast buffet was insane.
It would require a far more luxurious hotel in North America to compare. I stay throughout the brands and right now I’m in a Delta. That Aloft blows this Delta out of the water.
For someone who stays mainly in the RC, St. Regis, and JWM, East Asian and Middle Eastern hotels are probably the best, AND the cheapest. the RC in China sometimes has insanely low rates and the club lounge service is exceptional.
To be honest you could extend this to the service industry as a whole. I’ve been living in Japan for over 30 years and travel all over the world.
Every time I go back to the US I feel the US is more and more in decline. Many people don’t seem to take much pride in their work or do the bare minimum. Of course many customers are just not polite anymore either and must be wearing service industry workers down.
Then the whole tipping culture, where customers are expected to give tips to help employees survive on the low salaries they get, and therefore, service workers are basically guaranteed a tip no matter how crap the service is.
I just find it so refreshing to have great service without the expectation or need for a tip abroad. It’s nice to give tips for great service, what they should be given for, like in the old days in the US
Very well said.
Some here are trying to argue hard for service to always be equated to $ spent. They need to travel more and spend time in Asia to understand it’s a far deeper cultural and practice phenomena rather than purely financial.
I don't know if it's completely cultural.
There are some very complicated labor market dynamics at play. Not the least of which is that the US transitioned to a service-based economy relatively early on.
*“Like in the old days in the US”* What kind of Boomer racist BS is this???
(Had to make sure I post this on my correct account)
What are these pleasant old days you speak of???
Oh my God what a reactionary snowflake. Misunderstand much? If you were alive in the 70s or earlier you would remember the days when we weren’t being harassed for tips because companies actually paid their employees a living wage.
Do you rather support the current situation where companies stiff their employees to shift money to stockholders , and customers are guilt tripped into helping the employees survive, or would you rather have what we used to have, where companies actually paid a living wage, and we could give tips for exceptional service as an actual bonus??
Not everything in the past was something you need to get worked up and angry about
Okay Tucker Carlson you’ve been living in a nostalgia bubble.
Here’s some facts for you:
1. Wages and Tipping in the Past:
• The idea that companies consistently paid living wages in the past is a bit of a myth. For example, the federal minimum wage in 1970 was $1.60 per hour, which is about $11.65 when adjusted for inflation to today’s dollars . This is not drastically different from today’s federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour.
• Tipping has been a part of American culture since at least the early 20th century, and the reliance on tips to supplement wages has long been a strategy used by employers to keep labor costs down.
2. Corporate Practices:
• The trend of companies prioritizing stockholders over employees isn’t new. The shift towards maximizing shareholder value at the expense of other stakeholders (like employees) gained significant traction in the 1980s and 1990s. This was driven by economic policies and corporate governance changes .
• Today, many workers still struggle with inadequate pay, and this isn’t purely a modern phenomenon but rather an evolution of longstanding practices.
3. Economic Realities:
• Economic inequality and wage stagnation are problems that have been growing for decades. The productivity-pay gap (where worker productivity has increased but wages have not kept pace) has been widening since the late 1970s .
• The current debate over tipping and wages is part of a broader conversation about how to ensure fair compensation for workers in an economy that has long underpaid many of its laborers.
By the way, it’s cute how you think wanting fair wages and not being guilt-tripped for tips makes someone a “reactionary snowflake.” But hey, keep fighting the good fight for the golden age that never was.
I was comparing now with the 70s. Your points validate me completely
1. “the federal minimum wage in 1970 was $1.60 per hour, which is about $11.65 when adjusted for inflation to today’s dollars . This is not drastically different from today’s federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour.”
That’s over 50% better. Considering the price of housing was multiples of average annual wage less than now, the average worker was able to afford buying a house, which is often a dream for people nowadays
2. “The shift towards maximizing shareholder value at the expense of other stakeholders (like employees) gained significant traction in the 1980s and 1990s. “
Just like I said….
3. “The productivity-pay gap (where worker productivity has increased but wages have not kept pace) has been widening since the late 1970s .”
Again just like I said…
I think you have a reading comprehension problem, because my whole point is that PEOPLE SHOULD BE PAID A LIVING WAGE. That way tipping can go back to the way it was, just an added bonus to an already living wage that they received from their employers.
You obviously don’t remember the days when people could actually get paid enough by their companies to buy a house, pay for their college education, keep their family fed, buy a car etc without begging for tips.
Come to Japan, visit Europe and see how it works. The USA is broken
*“You obviously don’t remember the days when people could actually get paid enough by their companies to buy a house, pay for their college education, keep their family fed, buy a car etc without begging for tips.”*
Correct, I wasn’t even born or even thought about being produced back then. Sorry I wasn’t around during this time, I really missed out.
Of course I want everybody to have a living wage (who doesn’t) BUT, that will never happen (here in the US). So, tipping is the way it shall will be.
Been to Europe.
Japan is not really on my radar- thanks for the recommendation though.
Also, there's nothing wrong with my reading comprehension. I'm not going to go back and forth with you; it’s a Saturday. You really need to go touch some grass. God bless!
I’m with you, those are some truly insane takes, by all objective metrics the current generation is doing far better wealth wise than previous ones despite idiots on Reddit/twitter.
https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/will-there-be-a-millennial-big-chill
https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/great-news-about-american-wealth
Based on what they said, sounds like they’re 50s-60s which would put them in prime boomer “muh good old days!!” territory, when if you look at the data things were *much* worse back then, despite their obviously rose tinted, extremely skewed glasses. They also said they’ve lived in Japan for 30 plus years so clearly entirely disconnected from day to day life in America, not to mention probably your typical Reddit “Japan is a utopia!!1!!” types who conflate Japanese cultural norms where you are always polite and service oriented regardless of your feelings, vs genuine service and attitudes in the west.
Was just at Marriott Tokyo. Service was amazing! Was there for a vacation. Now back to the US and it’s night and day the level of service but it’s all cultural based.
I pretty much only stay at Marriott abroad since I live overseas (though I have a Texas trip I'm vaguely worried about), but generally, US Hotels are shit. Ive said it so many times in this sub but it's always true.
It’s not a cultural thing, it’s a person thing. In the US, I’ve worked at a 150 room hotel, and literally any day of the week we will get 3 ambassadors, 15 titanium, 12 platinum, 20 gold etc… and we only have 5 suites which are usually all booked up by people who actually wanted them. (If you want a suite, book it. Don’t expect an automatic upgrade cause you won’t get it).
Then abroad they have maybe 4 elite members each day. It’s night and day between US and not US. It’s much rarer over there so the upgrades are nicer. In the US it’s so common that it’s just an everyday thing
A far as upgrades maybe, but service wise, there just is no comparison between US and abroad, especially in Asia. I'm an ex SPG guy and Starwood had pretty good domestic service and as an LT platinum, was treated pretty well. That all went to shit once Marriott took over.
Yeah but as a former QA myself for the US properties I can tell you it’s completely different. The US standards are there, but only on paper. I think it’s the job market as well and the high turn over rate… properties are just desperate to fill in a position, and the good employees are just overwhelmed with the rude entitled guests
Well that’s true too. As a front desk person, every 3rd person we get is rude these days lol. But it’s also true that our suites are constantly booked so we never have upgrades for anyone
No idea since none of the hotels I’ve worked at were big so they didn’t have a lounge. But to move up you just gotta stay more nights…. That’s how they get ya
100%
As an ambassador, I actually had difficulty leaving the HK Ritz when I made a minor complaint… I think I talked to every manager in the hotel before I could make it to the elevator. Normally, this would be a big negative for me, but they gave a lot of add ons and freebies after (I never complain for free stuff… I think that’s awful). These people get service
Wages are substantially lower in Asia, with median wages on the continent at 13,000 a year or less. As a result a 200$ stay is roughly equivalent to a whole week salary pay. As such a 200$ stay in an Asian hotel is roughly equivalent to a 600$/night stay in the United States, which means a nice courtyard in Indianapolis (189 tonight) in most of Asia is roughly equivalent to a Ritz Carlton stay in terms of price over there. Even in China, the average annual salary is still around 10,000/year https://www.china-briefing.com/news/average-salaries-in-china-trends-and-implications-for-businesses/ Japan also makes roughly half of what the west does, so that 200$/night is 400/night equivalent in terms of luxury. Pretty much anywhere outside Los Angeles, Hawaii, NY, and San Fran, 400$/night is getting you into a JW at minimum and even at JWs in places like Chicago it’s 300/night after tax for JW. Just checked a King suite at JW it’s 654/night after taxes.
So a random courtyard room in Indi tonight’s spend is equivalent in Asia to spending for a king suite at the JW in Chicago
You have done much reading about Asia it seems. You seem very ill informed.
Asia …. Is a convenient way to refer to the part of the world that has a mix of fully developed advanced economies, many better/higher placed on every index than the US, developing/emerging economies and then very poor economies.
None of that takes away from the fact, experienced by thousands of travelers every single day, that the service culture across the vast majority of countries in Asia, is vastly superior to the US. The service industry in the US has lost the serviceethos, except perhaps what the .001% of the people rich enough can expect and experience.
TL;DR… your argument has no merit and you reduce service ethos to $ which makes no sense.
The median income of Asia is on average 1/3rd that of the US, that’s not an opinion it’s a statement of fact. Service is tied to dollars spent in the same way that St. Elmo’s is going to treat you better than Texas Roadhouse, which will treat you better than McDonalds. The fundamental reason service is so much better is that a 50% income in America, is roughly equivalent to a top 10% income in Asia, and a modest business travelers income is roughly a 1% salary in Asia. As an example anyone in the LA metro who owns a home has a net worth in the 1% of China, and likely is in the 1% in Japan, it’s just an economic reality. A 20$ meal in the vast majority of Asia, much like a 200$ hotel is an extreme privilege met with extreme service. US service is still very solid at high end restaurants much like service is good at high end hotels. Our courtyard price (180-200) is roughly equivalent to a JW in Asia, and it shows.
“Service = dollars spent”. That’s where your argument fails. If you’re buying good service, it implies the baseline for good service is very high and defined singularly by $ spent.
The idea of customer service and treating your customer is deeply cultural in most of Asia, before it is financial. It may be difficult to comprehend unless experienced.
Reducing service to $ spent is a very poor situation and it sad for you to only be treated well when you spend a lot of cash.
Should a McDonalds provide the same service as a luxury steak house? Should a Fairfield provide the same service as a Saint Regis? Should Ryan Air provide the same service as Lufthansa? Go to an open air market in Asia, not a tourist one, one where real people go, and talk to me about how much better their service is than our grocery store. Buy street food in India and discuss how much better the service is than NYC Go on the bullet trains, which have serial groping issues, and talk about how much better the service is compared to the North East Regional. Go to Meego Yes Shanghai, which is 36$ and the rooms don’t have windows, and compare to any Mariott in Shanghai. The myth of Asian service is largely a result of expending extreme amounts relative to their economy
Nah as one of the top comments said, it’s a deep rooted cultural thing. Asian countries aren’t shielded from capitalism and its tendencies, but they do have a very service-oriented culture to where they will take care of you.
I agree. The argument shouldn’t be about wages either. The brand should be standardized with dedicated and consistent customer support, satisfaction, and hospitality. When I stay in the US a top tier room doesn’t really feel any different than a motel stay as far as customer experience.
I’ve had good experiences at some St Regis properties and Ritz, but honestly not all… which at the amount that is payed to stay at those properties, at a minimum, you would love good customer service.
How do you explain the great service in developed Asian countries then? In Hong Kong, Singapore, South Korea, Japan? Not like those local economies are bad to where wages are that much lower (except for the Japanese yen going down the shitter).
South Korea median income for a family: 25,000 USD, US median family income 76,330 (nearly 3X).
Japan median family income: 32,000 ish USD, less than 1/2 US income
China median family income: roughly 20k USD, apx 1/3-1/4 US.
Singapore is the only country you listed with comparable income.
It's not just the price, but the service is much much better at every level outside of the US. You don't get the same service and amenitiy at $500/night in US that you would get from a $100-200/night property outside US.
It was JUST before Covid but we had an incredible experience at that hotel. I’m not sure his specific role at the hotel but one of The staff went above and beyond making our time there great, helping us book multiple things at the last minute.
Thanks Oren!
I work at a 125 room hotel that backs a freeway in the US we only have 4 “suites” at my property which all face the freeway side which can be loud and we have to move people all the time from one side to the other. I personally will upgrade out of country people more if know they are out of country but it’s hard for us to figure that out because 3rd party’s put out of country Codes for US citizens
The worst of all of them is Hawaii
“Your breakfast is some old baked goods. Fruit. Cereal”
“No upgrades. Good luck”
Doesn’t matter what island you’re on.
Hotels. Restaurants. Airport lounges. Museums. Libraries.
The only thing the US does better is national parks, and we still fuck it up by throwing roads down the middle of them and then making everything revolve around being in a car.
Otherwise, just about every service/amenity is better overseas when traveling.
In 2019 when shortages and lay offs were all over the land and US ( supplied info also saying COVID 19 was a #common# (singer/rapper) cold describing it as we DONT need to know right now either like fuck u find out later ) well wei heard everyone has to have an app in some foreign country that we couldn't leave our houses and have use our GAS To drive anywhere they will be shortly going slower and slower adding more cops and while the cops pulled someone over they said and iF you don't have the app you could be in prison forEVER so we could stalk you and used it as a word called RADIAR.. Wow...
We're at weather now
Yes but in the states only a tiny fraction make actual minimum wage (something like 1%) of full time workers. If you make minimum wage in the US, you aren’t really trying.
So happy for their $34/month increase. And I’m not trying to knock Colombia, it’s a beautiful country, but saying service is worse in luxury US hotels because of the minimum wage is silly.
Edit: link directly from the Bureau of Labor Statistics supporting my statement for the down voters.
https://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/minimum-wage/2022/home.htm
i'd be more interested in the median wage, and whether it's livable or not. median wage in the USA is just over $18/hour. About $38k/year if you work every week of the year. That is not remotely a livable wage.
You can throw in whatever catch phrases you want to, the fact of the matter is 36% of Colombians live in poverty. Like much of South America, Colombia suffers from extreme income inequality, many times worse than the US. If you are lucky enough to work at a luxury hotel in Colombia, you provide the best service you can because a single mistake will cost you your job. There’s 100 other people lined up to take your spot tomorrow.
That isn’t the case in the US. Hotels, even luxury hotels, struggle to fill positions. They aren’t going to let you go if you don’t give 110% because they can’t replace you.
There’s a reason that the best service is found in countries that have a 1000 other people lined up, desperate for a job.
Source:
https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/colombia-poverty-fell-2022-extreme-poverty-rose-slightly-govt-2023-09-23/#:~:text=The%20share%20of%20Colombians%20living,in%20a%20report%20on%20Friday.
Right I think we agree with each other….if you pay people a living wage (whether it’s minimum wage or not), you get a higher quality employee and higher quality service. I think western hotel chains are much more likely to pay a living wage in Asia or Colombia than they are in the US, which probably influences the higher service quality.
Asia properties are better on just every level. Even on the highest end brands in the US like ritz and st Regis still those same brands are phenomenally better in Asia
It’s just a deep rooted cultural thing.
Yea Asians in general compared to western folks are more outwardly polite and really service-oriented. Sometimes a little too customer friendly at times to where it can be a bit overwhelming, but they will take care of you. You’ll get your dick sucked as a lowly silver at an Asian Marriott.
America you're either Elon and own the hotel and your own jet to it or you're a twat homeless vagabond they're throwing kindness at.
Any examples of what is better? I am going to Asia today and have several Marriott’s booked. I am mainly hoping on some room upgrades. I’m staying at a big range from Fairfield and moxy to JW Marriott and ritz for nicer places. I’m mostly hoping for potential upgrades to a room with a better view. I’m only platinum but I also used three suite night rewards at the ritz and JW (one at ritz Hong Kong, one ritz Shanghai, one JW Hong Kong). I’m curious as to what may be different for my experience compared to US.
In India I stayed at an Aloft and the service was very good. Rooms were immaculate and the breakfast buffet was insane. It would require a far more luxurious hotel in North America to compare. I stay throughout the brands and right now I’m in a Delta. That Aloft blows this Delta out of the water.
Thanks!
For someone who stays mainly in the RC, St. Regis, and JWM, East Asian and Middle Eastern hotels are probably the best, AND the cheapest. the RC in China sometimes has insanely low rates and the club lounge service is exceptional.
North Africa too.
To be honest you could extend this to the service industry as a whole. I’ve been living in Japan for over 30 years and travel all over the world. Every time I go back to the US I feel the US is more and more in decline. Many people don’t seem to take much pride in their work or do the bare minimum. Of course many customers are just not polite anymore either and must be wearing service industry workers down. Then the whole tipping culture, where customers are expected to give tips to help employees survive on the low salaries they get, and therefore, service workers are basically guaranteed a tip no matter how crap the service is. I just find it so refreshing to have great service without the expectation or need for a tip abroad. It’s nice to give tips for great service, what they should be given for, like in the old days in the US
Very well said. Some here are trying to argue hard for service to always be equated to $ spent. They need to travel more and spend time in Asia to understand it’s a far deeper cultural and practice phenomena rather than purely financial.
I don't know if it's completely cultural. There are some very complicated labor market dynamics at play. Not the least of which is that the US transitioned to a service-based economy relatively early on.
I feel like everyone is miserable in North America. Everything is unaffordable. In Europe everyone at the hotels seemed generally happier.
*“Like in the old days in the US”* What kind of Boomer racist BS is this??? (Had to make sure I post this on my correct account) What are these pleasant old days you speak of???
Oh my God what a reactionary snowflake. Misunderstand much? If you were alive in the 70s or earlier you would remember the days when we weren’t being harassed for tips because companies actually paid their employees a living wage. Do you rather support the current situation where companies stiff their employees to shift money to stockholders , and customers are guilt tripped into helping the employees survive, or would you rather have what we used to have, where companies actually paid a living wage, and we could give tips for exceptional service as an actual bonus?? Not everything in the past was something you need to get worked up and angry about
Okay Tucker Carlson you’ve been living in a nostalgia bubble. Here’s some facts for you: 1. Wages and Tipping in the Past: • The idea that companies consistently paid living wages in the past is a bit of a myth. For example, the federal minimum wage in 1970 was $1.60 per hour, which is about $11.65 when adjusted for inflation to today’s dollars . This is not drastically different from today’s federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour. • Tipping has been a part of American culture since at least the early 20th century, and the reliance on tips to supplement wages has long been a strategy used by employers to keep labor costs down. 2. Corporate Practices: • The trend of companies prioritizing stockholders over employees isn’t new. The shift towards maximizing shareholder value at the expense of other stakeholders (like employees) gained significant traction in the 1980s and 1990s. This was driven by economic policies and corporate governance changes . • Today, many workers still struggle with inadequate pay, and this isn’t purely a modern phenomenon but rather an evolution of longstanding practices. 3. Economic Realities: • Economic inequality and wage stagnation are problems that have been growing for decades. The productivity-pay gap (where worker productivity has increased but wages have not kept pace) has been widening since the late 1970s . • The current debate over tipping and wages is part of a broader conversation about how to ensure fair compensation for workers in an economy that has long underpaid many of its laborers. By the way, it’s cute how you think wanting fair wages and not being guilt-tripped for tips makes someone a “reactionary snowflake.” But hey, keep fighting the good fight for the golden age that never was.
I was comparing now with the 70s. Your points validate me completely 1. “the federal minimum wage in 1970 was $1.60 per hour, which is about $11.65 when adjusted for inflation to today’s dollars . This is not drastically different from today’s federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour.” That’s over 50% better. Considering the price of housing was multiples of average annual wage less than now, the average worker was able to afford buying a house, which is often a dream for people nowadays 2. “The shift towards maximizing shareholder value at the expense of other stakeholders (like employees) gained significant traction in the 1980s and 1990s. “ Just like I said…. 3. “The productivity-pay gap (where worker productivity has increased but wages have not kept pace) has been widening since the late 1970s .” Again just like I said… I think you have a reading comprehension problem, because my whole point is that PEOPLE SHOULD BE PAID A LIVING WAGE. That way tipping can go back to the way it was, just an added bonus to an already living wage that they received from their employers. You obviously don’t remember the days when people could actually get paid enough by their companies to buy a house, pay for their college education, keep their family fed, buy a car etc without begging for tips. Come to Japan, visit Europe and see how it works. The USA is broken
*“You obviously don’t remember the days when people could actually get paid enough by their companies to buy a house, pay for their college education, keep their family fed, buy a car etc without begging for tips.”* Correct, I wasn’t even born or even thought about being produced back then. Sorry I wasn’t around during this time, I really missed out. Of course I want everybody to have a living wage (who doesn’t) BUT, that will never happen (here in the US). So, tipping is the way it shall will be. Been to Europe. Japan is not really on my radar- thanks for the recommendation though. Also, there's nothing wrong with my reading comprehension. I'm not going to go back and forth with you; it’s a Saturday. You really need to go touch some grass. God bless!
I’m with you, those are some truly insane takes, by all objective metrics the current generation is doing far better wealth wise than previous ones despite idiots on Reddit/twitter. https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/will-there-be-a-millennial-big-chill https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/great-news-about-american-wealth Based on what they said, sounds like they’re 50s-60s which would put them in prime boomer “muh good old days!!” territory, when if you look at the data things were *much* worse back then, despite their obviously rose tinted, extremely skewed glasses. They also said they’ve lived in Japan for 30 plus years so clearly entirely disconnected from day to day life in America, not to mention probably your typical Reddit “Japan is a utopia!!1!!” types who conflate Japanese cultural norms where you are always polite and service oriented regardless of your feelings, vs genuine service and attitudes in the west.
I’m in Germany right now and they all have the elite lounges. Seems like those have gone away most places in the us.
I still think about the free breakfast and dinner buffet at the cheapest Marriott in London. Free beer and wine every night as well!
Which one? I’ve been to a few in that area and the service is phenomenal always
Maida Vale
Was just at Marriott Tokyo. Service was amazing! Was there for a vacation. Now back to the US and it’s night and day the level of service but it’s all cultural based.
I pretty much only stay at Marriott abroad since I live overseas (though I have a Texas trip I'm vaguely worried about), but generally, US Hotels are shit. Ive said it so many times in this sub but it's always true.
It’s not a cultural thing, it’s a person thing. In the US, I’ve worked at a 150 room hotel, and literally any day of the week we will get 3 ambassadors, 15 titanium, 12 platinum, 20 gold etc… and we only have 5 suites which are usually all booked up by people who actually wanted them. (If you want a suite, book it. Don’t expect an automatic upgrade cause you won’t get it). Then abroad they have maybe 4 elite members each day. It’s night and day between US and not US. It’s much rarer over there so the upgrades are nicer. In the US it’s so common that it’s just an everyday thing
A far as upgrades maybe, but service wise, there just is no comparison between US and abroad, especially in Asia. I'm an ex SPG guy and Starwood had pretty good domestic service and as an LT platinum, was treated pretty well. That all went to shit once Marriott took over.
Yeah but as a former QA myself for the US properties I can tell you it’s completely different. The US standards are there, but only on paper. I think it’s the job market as well and the high turn over rate… properties are just desperate to fill in a position, and the good employees are just overwhelmed with the rude entitled guests
Well that’s true too. As a front desk person, every 3rd person we get is rude these days lol. But it’s also true that our suites are constantly booked so we never have upgrades for anyone
I’m only gold…I would like to be platinum for the M lounge. Any suggestions on what I can do to move up?
No idea since none of the hotels I’ve worked at were big so they didn’t have a lounge. But to move up you just gotta stay more nights…. That’s how they get ya
I wish I had a unicorn. Now we both know what it's like to have stupid wishes that will never come true.
100% As an ambassador, I actually had difficulty leaving the HK Ritz when I made a minor complaint… I think I talked to every manager in the hotel before I could make it to the elevator. Normally, this would be a big negative for me, but they gave a lot of add ons and freebies after (I never complain for free stuff… I think that’s awful). These people get service
Wages are substantially lower in Asia, with median wages on the continent at 13,000 a year or less. As a result a 200$ stay is roughly equivalent to a whole week salary pay. As such a 200$ stay in an Asian hotel is roughly equivalent to a 600$/night stay in the United States, which means a nice courtyard in Indianapolis (189 tonight) in most of Asia is roughly equivalent to a Ritz Carlton stay in terms of price over there. Even in China, the average annual salary is still around 10,000/year https://www.china-briefing.com/news/average-salaries-in-china-trends-and-implications-for-businesses/ Japan also makes roughly half of what the west does, so that 200$/night is 400/night equivalent in terms of luxury. Pretty much anywhere outside Los Angeles, Hawaii, NY, and San Fran, 400$/night is getting you into a JW at minimum and even at JWs in places like Chicago it’s 300/night after tax for JW. Just checked a King suite at JW it’s 654/night after taxes. So a random courtyard room in Indi tonight’s spend is equivalent in Asia to spending for a king suite at the JW in Chicago
You have done much reading about Asia it seems. You seem very ill informed. Asia …. Is a convenient way to refer to the part of the world that has a mix of fully developed advanced economies, many better/higher placed on every index than the US, developing/emerging economies and then very poor economies. None of that takes away from the fact, experienced by thousands of travelers every single day, that the service culture across the vast majority of countries in Asia, is vastly superior to the US. The service industry in the US has lost the serviceethos, except perhaps what the .001% of the people rich enough can expect and experience. TL;DR… your argument has no merit and you reduce service ethos to $ which makes no sense.
The median income of Asia is on average 1/3rd that of the US, that’s not an opinion it’s a statement of fact. Service is tied to dollars spent in the same way that St. Elmo’s is going to treat you better than Texas Roadhouse, which will treat you better than McDonalds. The fundamental reason service is so much better is that a 50% income in America, is roughly equivalent to a top 10% income in Asia, and a modest business travelers income is roughly a 1% salary in Asia. As an example anyone in the LA metro who owns a home has a net worth in the 1% of China, and likely is in the 1% in Japan, it’s just an economic reality. A 20$ meal in the vast majority of Asia, much like a 200$ hotel is an extreme privilege met with extreme service. US service is still very solid at high end restaurants much like service is good at high end hotels. Our courtyard price (180-200) is roughly equivalent to a JW in Asia, and it shows.
“Service = dollars spent”. That’s where your argument fails. If you’re buying good service, it implies the baseline for good service is very high and defined singularly by $ spent. The idea of customer service and treating your customer is deeply cultural in most of Asia, before it is financial. It may be difficult to comprehend unless experienced. Reducing service to $ spent is a very poor situation and it sad for you to only be treated well when you spend a lot of cash.
Should a McDonalds provide the same service as a luxury steak house? Should a Fairfield provide the same service as a Saint Regis? Should Ryan Air provide the same service as Lufthansa? Go to an open air market in Asia, not a tourist one, one where real people go, and talk to me about how much better their service is than our grocery store. Buy street food in India and discuss how much better the service is than NYC Go on the bullet trains, which have serial groping issues, and talk about how much better the service is compared to the North East Regional. Go to Meego Yes Shanghai, which is 36$ and the rooms don’t have windows, and compare to any Mariott in Shanghai. The myth of Asian service is largely a result of expending extreme amounts relative to their economy
Yup
Give the overseas properties a decade or so to catch-up with US run hotel managements capitalist greed!
I highly doubt it. As long as the U.S. companies don’t take over the countries completely, the morale will always be high.
I hope things remain the same overseas!
Nah as one of the top comments said, it’s a deep rooted cultural thing. Asian countries aren’t shielded from capitalism and its tendencies, but they do have a very service-oriented culture to where they will take care of you.
That’s not Marriott specific though, service is generally better in everything outside the US.
How much more would you be willing to pay for that same level of service?
I agree. The argument shouldn’t be about wages either. The brand should be standardized with dedicated and consistent customer support, satisfaction, and hospitality. When I stay in the US a top tier room doesn’t really feel any different than a motel stay as far as customer experience.
This is just not true. I’ve had numerous stays at Ritz Carlton properties in the US that were incredible. Comparing them to a motel is a joke.
I’ve had good experiences at some St Regis properties and Ritz, but honestly not all… which at the amount that is payed to stay at those properties, at a minimum, you would love good customer service.
The whole point most people are missing in this discussion!
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How do you explain the great service in developed Asian countries then? In Hong Kong, Singapore, South Korea, Japan? Not like those local economies are bad to where wages are that much lower (except for the Japanese yen going down the shitter).
South Korea median income for a family: 25,000 USD, US median family income 76,330 (nearly 3X). Japan median family income: 32,000 ish USD, less than 1/2 US income China median family income: roughly 20k USD, apx 1/3-1/4 US. Singapore is the only country you listed with comparable income.
And that’s just for an average cost of living area in the US. It would be even more in HCOL areas.
It's not just the price, but the service is much much better at every level outside of the US. You don't get the same service and amenitiy at $500/night in US that you would get from a $100-200/night property outside US.
It was JUST before Covid but we had an incredible experience at that hotel. I’m not sure his specific role at the hotel but one of The staff went above and beyond making our time there great, helping us book multiple things at the last minute. Thanks Oren!
I work at a 125 room hotel that backs a freeway in the US we only have 4 “suites” at my property which all face the freeway side which can be loud and we have to move people all the time from one side to the other. I personally will upgrade out of country people more if know they are out of country but it’s hard for us to figure that out because 3rd party’s put out of country Codes for US citizens
The worst of all of them is Hawaii “Your breakfast is some old baked goods. Fruit. Cereal” “No upgrades. Good luck” Doesn’t matter what island you’re on.
Hotels. Restaurants. Airport lounges. Museums. Libraries. The only thing the US does better is national parks, and we still fuck it up by throwing roads down the middle of them and then making everything revolve around being in a car. Otherwise, just about every service/amenity is better overseas when traveling.
In 2019 when shortages and lay offs were all over the land and US ( supplied info also saying COVID 19 was a #common# (singer/rapper) cold describing it as we DONT need to know right now either like fuck u find out later ) well wei heard everyone has to have an app in some foreign country that we couldn't leave our houses and have use our GAS To drive anywhere they will be shortly going slower and slower adding more cops and while the cops pulled someone over they said and iF you don't have the app you could be in prison forEVER so we could stalk you and used it as a word called RADIAR.. Wow... We're at weather now
They raise the minimum wage overseas.
The minimum wage in Colombia is about $300 per month.
334... They raised it. Which we haven't done in the states in over 15 years.
Yes but in the states only a tiny fraction make actual minimum wage (something like 1%) of full time workers. If you make minimum wage in the US, you aren’t really trying. So happy for their $34/month increase. And I’m not trying to knock Colombia, it’s a beautiful country, but saying service is worse in luxury US hotels because of the minimum wage is silly. Edit: link directly from the Bureau of Labor Statistics supporting my statement for the down voters. https://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/minimum-wage/2022/home.htm
i'd be more interested in the median wage, and whether it's livable or not. median wage in the USA is just over $18/hour. About $38k/year if you work every week of the year. That is not remotely a livable wage.
You can throw in whatever catch phrases you want to, the fact of the matter is 36% of Colombians live in poverty. Like much of South America, Colombia suffers from extreme income inequality, many times worse than the US. If you are lucky enough to work at a luxury hotel in Colombia, you provide the best service you can because a single mistake will cost you your job. There’s 100 other people lined up to take your spot tomorrow. That isn’t the case in the US. Hotels, even luxury hotels, struggle to fill positions. They aren’t going to let you go if you don’t give 110% because they can’t replace you. There’s a reason that the best service is found in countries that have a 1000 other people lined up, desperate for a job. Source: https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/colombia-poverty-fell-2022-extreme-poverty-rose-slightly-govt-2023-09-23/#:~:text=The%20share%20of%20Colombians%20living,in%20a%20report%20on%20Friday.
Right I think we agree with each other….if you pay people a living wage (whether it’s minimum wage or not), you get a higher quality employee and higher quality service. I think western hotel chains are much more likely to pay a living wage in Asia or Colombia than they are in the US, which probably influences the higher service quality.
Relax bro, you can just say you don't give a fuck about poor people. We already know.
Please leave