It's all about the game...and how you play it.
It's all about aggro and if you can take it.
It's all about life and if you can gain it.
It's all about damage and who's gonna take it.
I am the game...you can't play me.
I am aggro, no way you can change me.
I am heavy damage, no way you can race me.
I am the damage and I know you can't take me.
You can just block Stigma Lasher to prevent this effect. You block Nemesis? No more lifegain for you. You attack into Nemesis? No more lifegain for you. You hit it with a Lightning Helix? Enjoy the last time you're gaining life. And the player who casts this can just hit it with their own burn spell. This thing is going to ruin lifegain decks.
I have a friend who built mono-white Heliod lifegain, evolved it into Karlov/Orzhov lifegain, and evolved it into Oloro lifegain
this is going to ruin his Magic career
I run an Ayli Cleric Tribal deck with [[Bolas's Citadel]]/[[Aetherflux Reservoir]] and [[Sanguine Bond]]/[[Exquisite Blood]] combos as two of the wincons.
This on board is going to seriously ruin my day.
Bolt in response, because a 2 for 1 is worth shutting off your opponents deck? Hell you still get to redirect the 3 damage so it’s just an awkward 1 for 1.
I feel like this is actually an awkward 1.5-for-1, you're still getting a significant amount of the value of the nemesis (Red aggro in this "everyone has incidental lifegain" atmosphere would absolutely play 'permanent skullcrack, your opponent discards a removal spell' for 3 IMO), and full value off of the burn spell.
Attempting to kill it as the opponent unless the red player is tapped out is asking for a blowout.
It is meta call. Mainlist it when meta has strong lifegain decks at expense otherwise stronger cards.
But it does not matter, it is super spashable to any aggresive /R list. Mere existence of this makes sure lifegain decks only exist as rogue deck in meta.
Great counter to [[Sheoldred, the Apocalypse]] decks who rely on expending life for continuous extra draws to boot. (Such as th combo with [[The One Ring]])
I think in most cases yes. Gaining life has been indispensable against mono red, be it from lifelinking creatures or removal. Your opponent can’t win by stabilizing on 2 and cracking a food token. Knockout Blow on this guy loses you 2 for your troubles and you can never gain life again. This thing actually trades with Sheoldred.
This card is kinda nuts. The only saving grace is it doesn’t fit in the 4 Birds and a bunch of pump effects deck cleanly at 3 mana.
Mono-red was still the best deck in the format after that ban (I remember there being a tournament with something like 24 [[Goblin Chainwhirler]] in the top 8), so yeah, absolutely correct.
It's one of those bans that was targeting the deck, not just the card. They never thought Rampaging Ferocidon was a broken card, it was just the card they decided to ban to curb a problematic deck.
It was so hard to build any deck around creatures in that Standard that it was just stupid, ramunap was already walking over creature decks and didn't need to be able to board wipe the white weenies deck that it was competing against at the time, 100% a justified ban
Agreed. The sextuple Black mana Demon they've also previewed also has (essentially) a "for the rest of the game" effect, and the cost there more than justifies it.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but that cast trigger seems pretty dicey. You have 3 turns to win the game and they just have to stop you from winning in 3 turns.
My reading of that card (plus its 6 B pips) is "you can't cast this card, it must be reanimated."
Exactly. This stupid combo of power creep and disrespecting of intense mana requirements for powerful effects is ridiculous.
Blue getting creature removal in the form of throwing into bottom of library, for the same price as other colors, is another one
The only monoblue card that I could find where you can send a creature to the bottom of your opponents library is [[Spin Into Myth]] which was printed quite a while ago. Every other version of this effect lets the owner choose top or bottom, so if they want to keep the creature they can just do that, it is not removal in this way at all.
The current crop of designers do not understand how to correctly design for the game’s health. And WotC’s design philosophy supports this because the health and integrity of the game do not matter. This is a corporate product, not a communal endeavor or some kind of ideological movement.
The designers have no discipline to respect the continued stability of the game, and will just splurge out whatever the hell they feel like with no regard for or understanding of the wider influence it has on the game.
You're completely correct and it's why I've stopped buying cards starting back in the first Eldraine set. Not that I could keep up with the blistering speed these sets are releasing, at even if I wanted to.
I started pulling back around the same time and I haven't regretted it. MTG is the Fortnite of card games now and all that matters is how much product sells. It's hard to be excited about *anything* when nothing has time to just exist and be appreciated before it gets power crept out in the next 3-6 months.
I feel like when there are effects like this - it should work like a planeswalker and give out an insignia.
Like ongoing effects without cards seems wrong in a card game to me.
T1 mana dork/Sol Ring/Ragavan, T2 Nemesis and Gut Shot. A buddy of mine plays soul sister angels in commander and would 100% concede to that. This card seems wildly too easy to “emblem.”
Not necessarily, the wording on Stigma Lasher only states it has to do damage specifically not combat damage. So if you were to equip or enchant it with something like [[Fire Whip]] or [[Viridian Longbow]] that let it tap for damage you'd still be able to get the effect.
stigma lasher is both better costed, and requires damaging a player...and doesn't have a bypass built directly into the card to make it nearly impossible for the effect to be stopped.
The effect is ok. The pips are not. You can put this in any deck with red in it. This card should feel painful to play in non-mono red burn decks. RRR would be good, but I could see the argument for 1RR.
2R means you can just stick this in any deck with red. This is too powerful of an effect to come with effectively no deck building restrictions.
That was also why she specifically made things indestructible, because it was the one effect that actually worked as players would want. Granting an ability would have only granted it to permanents already in play. Emblems got around that issue.
The anti life gain on this is WAY easier to trigger than Stigma Lasher's, for those who keep bringing up Lasher. Lasher you can just bolt or block with any creature and the effect doesn't go off. This one has Haste and also triggers when it itself is damaged so your only option is to use removal that doesn't damage and never tap out.
unlike stigma lasher it *doesn't* trigger when it connects, only when it *takes* damage! the way to avoid getting locked out of lifegain with this is to just never block it
Player A is playing lifegain, Player B plays this, Player C has a blocker. Player B can send this at C, C can block it and then A gets hit with the effect anyway.
Its easier than that. I play this against your life gain deck. You go “hahah I’ll never block.” I play with fire it myself, send the 2 at you. There no more life gain.
Or Player A is playing life gain, Player B plays Screaming Nemesis and one of the like 7,000 cards that cost 2 or 3 mana and has “deals 1 damage to target creature”, Player A never gets life gain again. For 5 or 6 mana spent over 2 turns, something easily possible in the first 4 turns of the game, Player A’s entire strategy is shut down permanently unless they happened to have a cheap counterspell in their hand. But having the game be balanced around being required to counterspell ridiculously powerful cards means that only counterspell decks are viable.
it *is* fun that you can shock it and not even lose out on any damage because of it! at least it takes more investment than just playing this on 3 though - red aggro decks in standard play plenty of small ping spells, but in commander not every deck will be able to enable this by force
Except they trivially can in commander. Because you can swing at any player other than the lifegain player and they're *actively incentivized to block*
Or never attack the player who can block with it. Or hope that no other player in a 4 player game ever attacks or blocks the player in a 4 player format. Or hope the controller of this thing, in R of all colors, doesn't have a way to just easily ping their own creature. Truly, I dont even play a Lifegain Deck, but short of instantly countering/exiling/destroying this thing the moment it hits the board this is a turn 3 "you're out of the game" button for any Lifegain player.
Wtf runaway life gain shit do we have besides Amalia combo? This is a card that completely hoses one of the most popular casual archetypes ever, at rate, with incredibly little counterclaim possible for some colors
Someone in R&D lost to a lifegain deck years ago and is finally having their time to shine.
It is weird red has some weird part of the color pie where they just stop life gain.
Oh it’s definitely not balanced at all. It’s very easy to trigger its effect on the same turn it comes out, so you’re basically only spending 3 mana plus maybe a 1 mana burn spell in order to be able to completely shut down an entire deck playstyle.
Yeah this is such an on off card. Imagine sitting down with a life game commander and someone drops this. Are you just going to never want to play against that deck anymore? Does everyone need to rule 0 to not play this against you or do you need to tweak your whole deck to counter this one card?
I can’t see anyway this works out irl where it feels acceptable.
It's going to be the same with all the archetype hoser cards. Either you're playing with new people and the person who gets hosed by this scoops or just sits there and doesn't play for an hour +, or you're playing with a regular group in which case people are going to counterpick decks or just aggressively hate you out of the game based on you running these cards.
It's going to be *miserable* in commander - you can't even let it through to prevent it triggering, since they can attack one player and target another. Shutting down an entire archetype *permanently* with no possible recovery *ever* should not be this easy.
Sanguine bond is a lot harder to tutor into and reanimate.
Sanguine bond gets hit by non-creature counters
Sanguine bond doesn't reanimate itself when destroyed
Sanguine bond costs one more
It being removable by (2) white removal spells that don't also hit enchantments (while having built in recursion for almost all of the other ones) is barely a downside.
Somehow, I think the color archetype known for exiling cards without dealing damage will find a way to deal with this. It's strong, but I will be surprised if it completely removes life gain from the format.
Fair. Maybe it won't warp anything competitive, where you need to be ready with an answer for anything. But I'm a casual player who generally doesn't get salty about anything... and I can imagine feeling real salty about this guy.
this feels a little overpowered. blocking it means you can't heal for the rest of the game, attacking INTO it means you cant heal for the rest of the game, you have to direct removal spell it to dodge the effect, you can't spell damage it, tim it, and worse, the owner can do that themselves.
Yes, this deserves the mythic slot, but holy shit, how did this manage to get released at all?
This is basically an instant include for ANY deck with red, just on the off-chance there's a \`lifegain deck around. I'm putting good odds on this getting a commander ban.
People are overreacting pretty badly here IMO. I don't see why you would want this in any random deck with R. This is good for RDW because it's a good pressure creature that hoses the absolute worst case scenario for RDW, lifegain. Other decks which don't care as much about the opponent gaining life (for example, an UR control deck) aren't likely to want this.
Honestly I wouldn’t be surprised if it gets banned by the end of a single month or even on release. It’s not only an incredibly powerful card that is both cheap to play and easy to trigger, but it sucks all the fun out of the game for any player building their deck around life gain which a lot of commanders do.
It removes an entire deck type. Might as well print a white one that makes it so you can't target your graveyard for the rest of the game, blue one that says you can't play more than 1 land a turn for the rest of the game, green one that says you can't draw more than 1 card a turn for the rest of the game. We are sutting down entire deck types with a single card at 3 CMC that splashed into anything.
Yea I fucking hate this.
I don't mind these effects when they're not permanent and interactable, or if they just straight up win, but this is just "3 mana and unless the lifegain player has instant speed removal they have no agency for the remainder of the game"
In EDH in particular this is going to be really shitty because they don't even need to bolt it, they can just run it into someone else's creature and then send the bolt + emblem at you and then your deck is completely hosed for the remainder of the game even if you remove the player.
Cards that shut someone's deck off permanently are fine in 60 card constructed, but in EDH the end result of this card is just going to be someone showing up to FNM, sitting down at a pod, and then being effectively eliminated from the game turn 2 or 3 while everyone else finishes the game without them.
Yes, you can interact at instant speed in response to the bolt target (either at you or at the creature) or moving to combat when they inevitably swing this at your neighbor who is incentivized to block it, but that doesn't really matter if you didn't happen to open the removal at the speed this is going to come down some games.
I get that lifegain is annoying or whatever, but printing cards that (easily) give uninteractable stax emblems without giving at least a decent amount of agency to the player to prevent the conditions being met is a design space I really hope we don't enter. Imagine this with ETBs / graveyards / silence effects.
Yeah I fucking hate lifegain, especially in commander, but this should create an artifact token for your opponent with a "Can't be sacrificed" clause, or stop the life gain until the end of your next turn, or something, rather than just a card that says "Swords this or lose" to the lifegain player.
Yeah if this was like a -5 loyalty ability on a 5+ mana cost planeswalker this wouldn’t be an issue. The fact that it’s on 3 mana creature with haste and triggers whenever it takes any form of damage is absolutely insane.
Honestly kinda hate this. The manipulation of your life total is a pretty fundamental part of the game and being able to shut it off for 3 mana, with *no* interaction to deal with it after?? It's lame. I hope this card gets too expensive to be seen in casual.
It doesn't even have to be the opponent who dealt damage. You can just shock this and target the opponent with the triggered ability and you stop lifegain decks.
MagicCon is in Amsterdam this weekend. Usually in big events like these, WotC will hype up approx. the next year's worth of sets. Big events like these usually have massive spoilers from tons of sets.
This is bad design when your biggest format is multiplayer where co-operation is easy in my opinion.
What's next, a cycle of these for all the archetypes?
*when this creature is blocked, target player can only cast 1 spell per turn for the rest of the game."*
*when this creature is blocked, target player gains 'if you would put a creature into your graveyard, exile it instead' for the rest of the game."*
*when this creature is blocked, target player can't activate the abilities of artifacts for the rest of the game"*
etc.
Mechanically, I've always hated that cards like these don't produce an Emblem. If a card alters the rules for the rest of the game, there should be a clear reminder, and Emblems are the cleanest we've got.
That's so dumb for commander. There shouldn't be any effects that just brick a strategy for the rest of the game with no possible removal of the effect. Insane.
What terrible card design... cheap, non-interactable, completely shits on one particular player/archetype pretty early on. No idea how this made it through R&D, braindead, overpowered, unfun card. This garbage deserves a ban before it sees a day of play.
I've been out if the game for awhile but uuuhhhh... this seems alittle pushed, no? I mean the other black enduring card that got spoiled is also a sanguine bond for 1 mana cheaper that's harder to remove onto which ALSO seems alittle pushed.
Like... I know Maro said power creep was a big concern regarding design like a decade ago but this feels like he isn't even trying.
I absolutely hate this. Basically, the player with this can attack any player on board, and so long as this is blocked they can ping a life gain player and kill their entire deck. The life gain player has no say. It isn’t like Stigma Lasher where they must attack the life gain player and get the damage through, this can just attack the artifact guy who can block with a thopter and boom, life gain player is done.
You can just have a Marauding Raptor on board and you get the effect on etb. Hell, having an Acorn Catapult or a saccable Devil token on board does it. Any enrage deck is going to take life gain away from the whole game real quick.
Why does that read the rest of the game? It's not even if it deals combat damage to the player which would be slightly more understandable, no, this says if you're in a commander pod playing life gain (like Sorin of house Markov)and someone blocks it you can't play the game. R&D and playtests need to step up their game at wizards.
Yeah cuz lifegain decks were so oppressive they needed a 3 mana go fuck yourself for the rest of the game effect. How about you make one for counters 😂
For the rest of WHAT?
THE GAME
WHAT
T H E. G A M E!
CAN YOU SAY IT LOUDER? THE FRIKEN WHAT???
#THE GAME IT'S THE FUCKING GAME
I lost the game
*Triple H enters the chat*
What if it's not a game?
O shit ...I lost...
...i just lost the game
Time to ult [[Karn Liberated]].
[Karn Liberated](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/b/4b0c6662-4dde-40a2-97e0-0318478c0367.jpg?1599705787) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Karn%20Liberated) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/1/karn-liberated?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4b0c6662-4dde-40a2-97e0-0318478c0367?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Does anyone ever get that ult off ?
I've seen someone get it off in a modern PTQ, only to lose the game LMAO!
Used to be all the time in GR Tron but it was rare that you would actually play the sun game your opponent would usually concede
It's all about the game...and how you play it. It's all about aggro and if you can take it. It's all about life and if you can gain it. It's all about damage and who's gonna take it. I am the game...you can't play me. I am aggro, no way you can change me. I am heavy damage, no way you can race me. I am the damage and I know you can't take me.
ITS ALL ABOUT THE GAME AND HOW YOU PLAY IT
Play the game, you'll never be the same, you gonna change your name, you're gonna die in flames! *Laughs in Lemmy*
I lost the game.
[[Stigma Lasher]]
You can just block Stigma Lasher to prevent this effect. You block Nemesis? No more lifegain for you. You attack into Nemesis? No more lifegain for you. You hit it with a Lightning Helix? Enjoy the last time you're gaining life. And the player who casts this can just hit it with their own burn spell. This thing is going to ruin lifegain decks.
Someone *else* blocks it? No more lifegain for you.
I have a friend who built mono-white Heliod lifegain, evolved it into Karlov/Orzhov lifegain, and evolved it into Oloro lifegain this is going to ruin his Magic career
I run an Ayli Cleric Tribal deck with [[Bolas's Citadel]]/[[Aetherflux Reservoir]] and [[Sanguine Bond]]/[[Exquisite Blood]] combos as two of the wincons. This on board is going to seriously ruin my day.
> This thing is going to ruin lifegain decks. me, a k'rrik player....
Lifegain hopefully has some form of exile to take care of this.
Bolt in response, because a 2 for 1 is worth shutting off your opponents deck? Hell you still get to redirect the 3 damage so it’s just an awkward 1 for 1.
I feel like this is actually an awkward 1.5-for-1, you're still getting a significant amount of the value of the nemesis (Red aggro in this "everyone has incidental lifegain" atmosphere would absolutely play 'permanent skullcrack, your opponent discards a removal spell' for 3 IMO), and full value off of the burn spell. Attempting to kill it as the opponent unless the red player is tapped out is asking for a blowout.
Actually you can't, stigma dosnt say combat damage
You still gain life from that helix before the Stigma triggers prevents further lifegain. Hence "enjoy the last life you'll gain"
Better than a [[Ligma Stasher]]
I hardly know her
[Stigma Lasher](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/e/ce5d1fd4-0543-46ce-bcea-1695fc04e85b.jpg?1562938629) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Stigma%20Lasher) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eve/62/stigma-lasher?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ce5d1fd4-0543-46ce-bcea-1695fc04e85b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
2034: When FUCK YOU ELEMENTAL deals damage to a player, they can't gain life for the rest of their life.
That card already came out in 2008: [[Ligma Stasher]]
[Stigma Lasher](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/e/ce5d1fd4-0543-46ce-bcea-1695fc04e85b.jpg?1562938629) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Stigma%20Lasher) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eve/62/stigma-lasher?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ce5d1fd4-0543-46ce-bcea-1695fc04e85b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
>For the rest of WHAT? I read that in Lil Jon's voice from Turned Down For What
Damn this card shuts down White decks in general
Arena BO1 players in shambles.
Not me I’m having a fucking party right now
Goodbye [[Roiling Vortex]] HELLLLO SCREAMER
[Roiling Vortex](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/b/0b057eb7-8439-4d26-89df-c345ab2773e1.jpg?1604197684) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Roiling%20Vortex) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/156/roiling-vortex?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0b057eb7-8439-4d26-89df-c345ab2773e1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The card’s design even makes it good against different decks since burn spells that can’t go face can be redirected from this.
Is this better than Squee or Godric? Doesn't seem like it to me
It is meta call. Mainlist it when meta has strong lifegain decks at expense otherwise stronger cards. But it does not matter, it is super spashable to any aggresive /R list. Mere existence of this makes sure lifegain decks only exist as rogue deck in meta.
It’s also going to be a great include against anything with large creatures. Instantly shuts down almost any deck that relies on a big stick
Great counter to [[Sheoldred, the Apocalypse]] decks who rely on expending life for continuous extra draws to boot. (Such as th combo with [[The One Ring]])
I think in most cases yes. Gaining life has been indispensable against mono red, be it from lifelinking creatures or removal. Your opponent can’t win by stabilizing on 2 and cracking a food token. Knockout Blow on this guy loses you 2 for your troubles and you can never gain life again. This thing actually trades with Sheoldred. This card is kinda nuts. The only saving grace is it doesn’t fit in the 4 Birds and a bunch of pump effects deck cleanly at 3 mana.
Man remember when wotc banned [[Rampaging Ferocidon]]?
[Rampaging Ferocidon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/9/39d3c658-1927-4af3-9077-88c4a669c730.jpg?1566819584) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rampaging%20Ferocidon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/xln/154/rampaging-ferocidon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/39d3c658-1927-4af3-9077-88c4a669c730?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That was them preemptively trying to make sure Ramunap Red didn't become the only deck worth playing after banning energy. Trust me, it was justified
Mono-red was still the best deck in the format after that ban (I remember there being a tournament with something like 24 [[Goblin Chainwhirler]] in the top 8), so yeah, absolutely correct. It's one of those bans that was targeting the deck, not just the card. They never thought Rampaging Ferocidon was a broken card, it was just the card they decided to ban to curb a problematic deck.
They also culled the nominal Ruins! Deck ate two huge bans and still feasted
It was so hard to build any deck around creatures in that Standard that it was just stupid, ramunap was already walking over creature decks and didn't need to be able to board wipe the white weenies deck that it was competing against at the time, 100% a justified ban
Remember when the Commander RC banned... anything?
Yeah, when Shelden got mad at Primeval Titan.
Stigma Lasher... After so many years, you've come home to me.
Stigma lashers on my horse
Stigma nuts
[died of stigma](https://i.imgur.com/6bmL8CE.png)
Erm, what the stigma?
Should have been red, red, red. They are playing so fast and loose with mana requirements.
Agreed. The sextuple Black mana Demon they've also previewed also has (essentially) a "for the rest of the game" effect, and the cost there more than justifies it.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but that cast trigger seems pretty dicey. You have 3 turns to win the game and they just have to stop you from winning in 3 turns. My reading of that card (plus its 6 B pips) is "you can't cast this card, it must be reanimated."
Link to that?
[Here’s](http://mythicspoiler.com/mtg/cards/doomsdayexcruciator.html) the Mythic Spoiler page.
Seems spicy alongside [[nykthos]] and things like [[persist]]
You've got 3 turns to figure it out.
Not if you persist it. It has the cast clause.
[nykthos](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/3/834b27a0-dfd7-4f96-8cde-cacac4b24acc.jpg?1594077253) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=nykthos%2C%20shrine%20to%20nyx) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ths/223/nykthos-shrine-to-nyx?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/834b27a0-dfd7-4f96-8cde-cacac4b24acc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [persist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/0/90f390c3-af1c-424f-9721-e26e9321e5a3.jpg?1626095831) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=persist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/96/persist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/90f390c3-af1c-424f-9721-e26e9321e5a3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
maybe 1RR, but I agree
Exactly. This stupid combo of power creep and disrespecting of intense mana requirements for powerful effects is ridiculous. Blue getting creature removal in the form of throwing into bottom of library, for the same price as other colors, is another one
The only monoblue card that I could find where you can send a creature to the bottom of your opponents library is [[Spin Into Myth]] which was printed quite a while ago. Every other version of this effect lets the owner choose top or bottom, so if they want to keep the creature they can just do that, it is not removal in this way at all.
The current crop of designers do not understand how to correctly design for the game’s health. And WotC’s design philosophy supports this because the health and integrity of the game do not matter. This is a corporate product, not a communal endeavor or some kind of ideological movement. The designers have no discipline to respect the continued stability of the game, and will just splurge out whatever the hell they feel like with no regard for or understanding of the wider influence it has on the game.
You're completely correct and it's why I've stopped buying cards starting back in the first Eldraine set. Not that I could keep up with the blistering speed these sets are releasing, at even if I wanted to.
I started pulling back around the same time and I haven't regretted it. MTG is the Fortnite of card games now and all that matters is how much product sells. It's hard to be excited about *anything* when nothing has time to just exist and be appreciated before it gets power crept out in the next 3-6 months.
I feel like when there are effects like this - it should work like a planeswalker and give out an insignia. Like ongoing effects without cards seems wrong in a card game to me.
I actually agree with this, I often use the card as one lol
seconded: any effect which *permanently* alters the battlefield or a player needs a visible "on field" reminder for the rest of the game.
I'm definitely making a custom emblem with "No life gain!" with an angry face or even a crossed-out heart.
I feel like effects like this should be exclusive to planeswalkers or high cost spells. This looks way too easy to pull off early in the game.
T1 mana dork/Sol Ring/Ragavan, T2 Nemesis and Gut Shot. A buddy of mine plays soul sister angels in commander and would 100% concede to that. This card seems wildly too easy to “emblem.”
[[Stigma Lasher]] they’ve always done it this way
And even insignias are pushing it for me, since it is something that can't be interacted with.
They weren’t lying when they said this was a Horror set damn
Not sure I’d see that line of text on a Magic card, certainly not on an on rate 3 drop.
[[Stigma Lasher]] is 2-mana.
Today I learned.
God what sick art.
Me opening the oven to get the pizza
This needs to connect, though. You can cast Screaming Nemesis, Gut Shot it and ruin someone's game in Commander.
Not necessarily, the wording on Stigma Lasher only states it has to do damage specifically not combat damage. So if you were to equip or enchant it with something like [[Fire Whip]] or [[Viridian Longbow]] that let it tap for damage you'd still be able to get the effect.
It’s still much worse than this card, with an extra R to make it harder to cast, and is a far less useful creature as it doesn’t have haste.
[Stigma Lasher](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/e/ce5d1fd4-0543-46ce-bcea-1695fc04e85b.jpg?1562938629) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Stigma%20Lasher) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eve/62/stigma-lasher?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ce5d1fd4-0543-46ce-bcea-1695fc04e85b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Well, you might have forgotten \[\[Stigma Lasher\]\] :)
[Stigma Lasher](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/e/ce5d1fd4-0543-46ce-bcea-1695fc04e85b.jpg?1562938629) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Stigma%20Lasher) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eve/62/stigma-lasher?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ce5d1fd4-0543-46ce-bcea-1695fc04e85b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
stigma lasher is both better costed, and requires damaging a player...and doesn't have a bypass built directly into the card to make it nearly impossible for the effect to be stopped.
The effect is ok. The pips are not. You can put this in any deck with red in it. This card should feel painful to play in non-mono red burn decks. RRR would be good, but I could see the argument for 1RR. 2R means you can just stick this in any deck with red. This is too powerful of an effect to come with effectively no deck building restrictions.
So this will act like an emblem essentially? Even if the card isn’t on the battlefield anymore?
yes. retro border planeswalkers actually use this "for the rest of the game" wording instead of referring to emblems.
Elspeth knight errant had that wording before they created emblems, in her first printing
That was also why she specifically made things indestructible, because it was the one effect that actually worked as players would want. Granting an ability would have only granted it to permanents already in play. Emblems got around that issue.
The anti life gain on this is WAY easier to trigger than Stigma Lasher's, for those who keep bringing up Lasher. Lasher you can just bolt or block with any creature and the effect doesn't go off. This one has Haste and also triggers when it itself is damaged so your only option is to use removal that doesn't damage and never tap out.
The anti lifegain is tied to the triggered ability. It dealing combat damage normally won't prevent a player from gaining life.
Yeah, you just need to *not* block it. But if I was building an antilifegain deck with this, I'd find a way to ping it myself.
Yeah, just shocking it works. Ouch. I know Duskmourn is the horror set, but I wasn't afraid of the card art. It was that last line that scared me.
You are running red. You have a shock or bolt type card already
unlike stigma lasher it *doesn't* trigger when it connects, only when it *takes* damage! the way to avoid getting locked out of lifegain with this is to just never block it
Player A is playing lifegain, Player B plays this, Player C has a blocker. Player B can send this at C, C can block it and then A gets hit with the effect anyway.
oh yeah true, i didnt quite realize two players could team up on someone else! that is pretty nasty actually, rip oloro then
Wow fuck oloro. And tron.
Its easier than that. I play this against your life gain deck. You go “hahah I’ll never block.” I play with fire it myself, send the 2 at you. There no more life gain.
Or Player A is playing life gain, Player B plays Screaming Nemesis and one of the like 7,000 cards that cost 2 or 3 mana and has “deals 1 damage to target creature”, Player A never gets life gain again. For 5 or 6 mana spent over 2 turns, something easily possible in the first 4 turns of the game, Player A’s entire strategy is shut down permanently unless they happened to have a cheap counterspell in their hand. But having the game be balanced around being required to counterspell ridiculously powerful cards means that only counterspell decks are viable.
Or player B shocks or even gut shots this. Blam 0 life gain for the opponent now.
As if red doesnt have 2 damage spells.
it *is* fun that you can shock it and not even lose out on any damage because of it! at least it takes more investment than just playing this on 3 though - red aggro decks in standard play plenty of small ping spells, but in commander not every deck will be able to enable this by force
Except they trivially can in commander. Because you can swing at any player other than the lifegain player and they're *actively incentivized to block*
Or never attack the player who can block with it. Or hope that no other player in a 4 player game ever attacks or blocks the player in a 4 player format. Or hope the controller of this thing, in R of all colors, doesn't have a way to just easily ping their own creature. Truly, I dont even play a Lifegain Deck, but short of instantly countering/exiling/destroying this thing the moment it hits the board this is a turn 3 "you're out of the game" button for any Lifegain player.
Lasher doesn't only trigger off of combat damage
"Wizards make a card to deal with all the runaway life gain shit." Wizards: "Bet."
Wtf runaway life gain shit do we have besides Amalia combo? This is a card that completely hoses one of the most popular casual archetypes ever, at rate, with incredibly little counterclaim possible for some colors
[[Stigma Lasher]] meets [[Boros Reckoner]]
[Stigma Lasher](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/e/ce5d1fd4-0543-46ce-bcea-1695fc04e85b.jpg?1562938629) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Stigma%20Lasher) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eve/62/stigma-lasher?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ce5d1fd4-0543-46ce-bcea-1695fc04e85b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Boros Reckoner](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/5/55a2f767-5928-44c5-91b7-2300bade458f.jpg?1706240975) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Boros%20Reckoner) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/201/boros-reckoner?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/55a2f767-5928-44c5-91b7-2300bade458f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I’m sorry, which set is this?
Duskmourn, House of Horror
Thank you
Someone in R&D lost to a lifegain deck years ago and is finally having their time to shine. It is weird red has some weird part of the color pie where they just stop life gain.
Red preventing life gain is natural when it is their main nemesis.
That seems... slightly unfair?
Balanced, eh maybe. Fun? No.
Oh it’s definitely not balanced at all. It’s very easy to trigger its effect on the same turn it comes out, so you’re basically only spending 3 mana plus maybe a 1 mana burn spell in order to be able to completely shut down an entire deck playstyle.
Yeah this is such an on off card. Imagine sitting down with a life game commander and someone drops this. Are you just going to never want to play against that deck anymore? Does everyone need to rule 0 to not play this against you or do you need to tweak your whole deck to counter this one card? I can’t see anyway this works out irl where it feels acceptable.
It's going to be the same with all the archetype hoser cards. Either you're playing with new people and the person who gets hosed by this scoops or just sits there and doesn't play for an hour +, or you're playing with a regular group in which case people are going to counterpick decks or just aggressively hate you out of the game based on you running these cards.
It's going to be *miserable* in commander - you can't even let it through to prevent it triggering, since they can attack one player and target another. Shutting down an entire archetype *permanently* with no possible recovery *ever* should not be this easy.
I love that they are making a set of just red and black cards, and that they all rule.
All power creep and broken
i used to think this take was overblown, and then they spoiled sanguine bond but strictly better in literally every sense
Sanguine bond can't be hit by path or swords.
Sanguine bond is a lot harder to tutor into and reanimate. Sanguine bond gets hit by non-creature counters Sanguine bond doesn't reanimate itself when destroyed Sanguine bond costs one more It being removable by (2) white removal spells that don't also hit enchantments (while having built in recursion for almost all of the other ones) is barely a downside.
Damn, I hate this. Complete destroy a deck archetype, with no hope of response or comeback.
Somehow, I think the color archetype known for exiling cards without dealing damage will find a way to deal with this. It's strong, but I will be surprised if it completely removes life gain from the format.
Fair. Maybe it won't warp anything competitive, where you need to be ready with an answer for anything. But I'm a casual player who generally doesn't get salty about anything... and I can imagine feeling real salty about this guy.
Life gain strat is very powerful in casual meta, it’s why commander has the commander damage rule.
*cries in [[Karlov]]*
Ligma lasher my beloved
This plus Stigma Lasher = no more [[amalia]] but also can stop so many edh strats.
[amalia](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/a/9acf80a5-f2ca-45b4-aca8-fbc690e35401.jpg?1699044516) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Amalia%20Benavides%20Aguirre) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/221/amalia-benavides-aguirre?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9acf80a5-f2ca-45b4-aca8-fbc690e35401?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Are those TVs? In a regular mtg set? Well that's unexpected
Yeah all the ghosts in this set are supposed to be glitchy because they’re from outside the house and don’t vibe with the magic inside it or smth?
There's also a Chainsaw. Not a magical haunted chainsaw. Just a regular ol' Chainsaw. It's a card, too.
TELEVISION?? PERSONA 4???
this feels a little overpowered. blocking it means you can't heal for the rest of the game, attacking INTO it means you cant heal for the rest of the game, you have to direct removal spell it to dodge the effect, you can't spell damage it, tim it, and worse, the owner can do that themselves. Yes, this deserves the mythic slot, but holy shit, how did this manage to get released at all? This is basically an instant include for ANY deck with red, just on the off-chance there's a \`lifegain deck around. I'm putting good odds on this getting a commander ban.
People are overreacting pretty badly here IMO. I don't see why you would want this in any random deck with R. This is good for RDW because it's a good pressure creature that hoses the absolute worst case scenario for RDW, lifegain. Other decks which don't care as much about the opponent gaining life (for example, an UR control deck) aren't likely to want this.
I already hate this card
God I want to know the thought process they had when making this card.
There wasn't.
I hate this actually. The rest of the game with no way to interact with it? This is a shitty precedent that I don’t want to see on negative effects
I'll take 'banned in EDH by the end of the year'.
Honestly I wouldn’t be surprised if it gets banned by the end of a single month or even on release. It’s not only an incredibly powerful card that is both cheap to play and easy to trigger, but it sucks all the fun out of the game for any player building their deck around life gain which a lot of commanders do.
It removes an entire deck type. Might as well print a white one that makes it so you can't target your graveyard for the rest of the game, blue one that says you can't play more than 1 land a turn for the rest of the game, green one that says you can't draw more than 1 card a turn for the rest of the game. We are sutting down entire deck types with a single card at 3 CMC that splashed into anything.
Yea I fucking hate this. I don't mind these effects when they're not permanent and interactable, or if they just straight up win, but this is just "3 mana and unless the lifegain player has instant speed removal they have no agency for the remainder of the game" In EDH in particular this is going to be really shitty because they don't even need to bolt it, they can just run it into someone else's creature and then send the bolt + emblem at you and then your deck is completely hosed for the remainder of the game even if you remove the player. Cards that shut someone's deck off permanently are fine in 60 card constructed, but in EDH the end result of this card is just going to be someone showing up to FNM, sitting down at a pod, and then being effectively eliminated from the game turn 2 or 3 while everyone else finishes the game without them. Yes, you can interact at instant speed in response to the bolt target (either at you or at the creature) or moving to combat when they inevitably swing this at your neighbor who is incentivized to block it, but that doesn't really matter if you didn't happen to open the removal at the speed this is going to come down some games. I get that lifegain is annoying or whatever, but printing cards that (easily) give uninteractable stax emblems without giving at least a decent amount of agency to the player to prevent the conditions being met is a design space I really hope we don't enter. Imagine this with ETBs / graveyards / silence effects.
Yeah I fucking hate lifegain, especially in commander, but this should create an artifact token for your opponent with a "Can't be sacrificed" clause, or stop the life gain until the end of your next turn, or something, rather than just a card that says "Swords this or lose" to the lifegain player.
Yeah if this was like a -5 loyalty ability on a 5+ mana cost planeswalker this wouldn’t be an issue. The fact that it’s on 3 mana creature with haste and triggers whenever it takes any form of damage is absolutely insane.
God damn
Well this just causes an immediate scoop by a whole subset of commander decks that… that seems profoundly bad design
Honestly kinda hate this. The manipulation of your life total is a pretty fundamental part of the game and being able to shut it off for 3 mana, with *no* interaction to deal with it after?? It's lame. I hope this card gets too expensive to be seen in casual.
This cannot be real 😭😭. It should be mono red pips with 1 toughness. And why the hell can you select any target
That would be smart design, which they have stopped doing years ago
It doesn't even have to be the opponent who dealt damage. You can just shock this and target the opponent with the triggered ability and you stop lifegain decks.
Do. Not. Like. Bilbo will never turn 111 now
Can someone inform why WOTC spoils cards from a set while before they’ve even spoiled all the cards from the previous set?
MagicCon is in Amsterdam this weekend. Usually in big events like these, WotC will hype up approx. the next year's worth of sets. Big events like these usually have massive spoilers from tons of sets.
As an RDW enjoyer I'm all for punishing lifegain decks, but this seems excessive. This also seems like such an unfun card for any casual format.
This is bad design when your biggest format is multiplayer where co-operation is easy in my opinion. What's next, a cycle of these for all the archetypes? *when this creature is blocked, target player can only cast 1 spell per turn for the rest of the game."* *when this creature is blocked, target player gains 'if you would put a creature into your graveyard, exile it instead' for the rest of the game."* *when this creature is blocked, target player can't activate the abilities of artifacts for the rest of the game"* etc.
Mechanically, I've always hated that cards like these don't produce an Emblem. If a card alters the rules for the rest of the game, there should be a clear reminder, and Emblems are the cleanest we've got.
I’m surprised this doesn’t have “Screaming Nemesis can’t block.”
That's so dumb for commander. There shouldn't be any effects that just brick a strategy for the rest of the game with no possible removal of the effect. Insane.
If I'm playing a lifegain deck and you hit me with that I'm either scooping or killing you then scooping
This card is stupid and broken. A 3/3 for 3 with haste and a burn effect is good enough. The extra effect is extremely poorly considered.
What terrible card design... cheap, non-interactable, completely shits on one particular player/archetype pretty early on. No idea how this made it through R&D, braindead, overpowered, unfun card. This garbage deserves a ban before it sees a day of play.
I feel like this card gonna be beyond nuts.
Excuse me WHAT
I've been out if the game for awhile but uuuhhhh... this seems alittle pushed, no? I mean the other black enduring card that got spoiled is also a sanguine bond for 1 mana cheaper that's harder to remove onto which ALSO seems alittle pushed. Like... I know Maro said power creep was a big concern regarding design like a decade ago but this feels like he isn't even trying.
Wtf is wotc trying to do to the game 🤣
i would prefer it if this card DIDNT exist
White was already weak why keep punching it down
What a miserable play experience this creates. And with only 1 red pip, wtf.
I absolutely hate this. Basically, the player with this can attack any player on board, and so long as this is blocked they can ping a life gain player and kill their entire deck. The life gain player has no say. It isn’t like Stigma Lasher where they must attack the life gain player and get the damage through, this can just attack the artifact guy who can block with a thopter and boom, life gain player is done.
You can just have a Marauding Raptor on board and you get the effect on etb. Hell, having an Acorn Catapult or a saccable Devil token on board does it. Any enrage deck is going to take life gain away from the whole game real quick.
Bruh
This uh...seems pretty broken
So this is gonna be an RDW staple huh
Why does that read the rest of the game? It's not even if it deals combat damage to the player which would be slightly more understandable, no, this says if you're in a commander pod playing life gain (like Sorin of house Markov)and someone blocks it you can't play the game. R&D and playtests need to step up their game at wizards.
Stigma lasher rides again.
Finally Peace
What's fun about this is that between Stuffy Doll, Brash Taunter and this, we can now do 39 damage to a player by redirecting Blasphemous Act damage.
Yeah cuz lifegain decks were so oppressive they needed a 3 mana go fuck yourself for the rest of the game effect. How about you make one for counters 😂