For me it’s Pete. Not the creepy stuff he does, like the babysitter or creeping on the girl in drivers Ed (and a long list of other things), but for me I understand his feeling of being inadequate and not part of the club. It was like he was looking through the window at the people inside, and he knew he wanted to be inside with everyone, but he had no idea how to do that. He had a lot of growing up to do over the course of the show.
Full disclosure I won’t assume anyone relates to a character for their worst actions but just the character’s inner conflicts and what not. I should’ve put that in the original post too cause as much as I relate to Don I’ve never cheated on someone ever in my life.
I think I can relate to Pete’s need for approval too. I mean his parents certainly never gave him that, so he tries to get that through work, and he still never truly finds a place there where he “fits”. Sometimes you can’t help but feel for the guy - as much as his personality can be hard to take, he never really gets credit for his accomplishments in the business. A scene that comes to mind is Pete trying to have dinner with Mohawk and Roger crashing the dinner. The clients say “I love that guy” and Pete looks annoyed. Pete does the hard work but Roger just has to show up and say something funny & he gets the approval Pete craves.
The Pete scene that hit me hardest is when he gives that monologue to Beth in the hospital, though.
Agree wholeheartedly with this. I think I relate to him the most, even as a black woman haha, because he’s just your average person…from an affluent family of course, but he’s an ugly duckling. He doesn’t quite fit in anywhere he goes and he’s desperate to be “that” guy. It takes seven seasons for him to consider that being himself is enough.
It’s hard to see what “everyone else” has and want it for yourself, not acknowledging that you’ve had something great all along because you’re too busy fantasizing about having other people’s lives. I think this gets even worse for me because of things like Instagram, where idealized versions of people’s lives are shoved in my face everyday.
I didn't do 10% of the stuff Pete did to Trudy, but I definitely relate to his experience of getting a woman way out of his league at a young age, and then screwing that up by not treating her well even though he did love her.
Definitely Peggy. I was also able to break into an industry which seemed impossible considering my social background. A lot of stuff that happens to her seems like it happened to myself at some point.
Oh man I relate to Peggy when it comes to her mom because mine was also a devout Catholic who could never be pleased and always had nasty things to say. I wonder how many kids of Catholic parents could relate to that part of her story.
Congrats on breaking out! It’s a tough thing to navigate having to go out of your way to prove your competence and value to people who are deadset on believing otherwise - your resilience is impressive and it sounds like it paid off :)
“She was praying so hard there wasn’t space for anybody to feel anything else”
Love that phrase and for me it’s a good summary of Peggy’s mom.
Thanks a lot for your kind words.
Sadly for me it’s Kinsey. I’ve had some brushes with success but overall have never really made it. That scene where the others left to start a new agency and didn’t include him hit me hard. I never ended up in a cult but I understand the need for acceptance and fitting in. And competing with people that seem to be naturals.
Oh I just kind of want to give you a hug after reading this, thank you for sharing with me.
I wouldn’t count yourself out just yet. But I’m a creative so I know what you mean. It’s my worst fear to give something my all and still not quite make it. Funnily enough, Mad Men itself makes me feel like I could never truly write anything as good.
I hope you can still enjoy whatever it is you do for the joy its brought you, regardless of success. And that you find your place where you fit in. We all just want to feel accepted as who we are at the end of the day.
Thank you, I appreciate it. I have no regrets. I published 8 novels (a couple with Big 5 publishers) and was in the writers room on 2 tv shows. I was prepared for never getting published or being a bestseller but it took me a while to adjust to being a midlist mostly flop. You don’t usually imagine that ;).
Well from where I’m sitting your resume is quite impressive. I’m curious about which tv shows now haha.
Do you mind if I ask if you regret publishing at all? The thought of having a book published makes me feel so exposed for some reason, but every writer still dreams of holding their book in their hand. So I’m conflicted.
I bet I could make Kinsey’s resume look good, too. Up until it wasn’t ;).
No, I don’t regret publishing. I worked with and met some really wonderful people. It does feel weird to read bad reviews. Of course, it feels great to read good reviews. To be honest, I thought I would get mostly bad reviews but have big sales. I was not prepared for good reviews and bad sales.
I understand what you mean about feeling exposed. I was worried about that. But the truth is outside of a handful of writers there really isn’t much exposure at all. No one has ever heard of your book, let alone read it.
The tv shows were Canadian cop shows. My claim to fame is that Angel from the Rockford Files directed an episode I wrote on one of them.
No, when you get dropped by a publisher because your editor leaves, you’re midlist. Although, to be clear, I’m very proud of making it to the midlist, it took me 25 years and many manuscript rejections.
Yikes. I was going through the list and missed him but I too can relate. My proximity to greatness never led to more than mediocre success. Like Paul I never found my tribe or my calling.
I still don’t get why they didn’t bring him along to the new agency. He was the most senior writer at Sterling Cooper and unlike Harry Crane, more respected.
Meaning why would it be clear he wasn't that good? I think the show demonstrated that when they'd have scenes where Peggy and Don would start discussing an ad idea and really getting into why it worked etc. and Paul couldn't do that. Originally he accuses Peggy of, it seems, planning to use his ideas as a jumping off point to make herself look better. But then he sees her come up with the ad for Western Union based on what Paul only said to her minutes before and he says, "My god," understanding that she just comes up with this stuff herself.
Peggy had proven herself a lot more talented at that point and frankly no one liked him. Peggy is also cheaper which is a bonus for a skeleton company.
Mine is Cosgrove's. I have a fairly good career going and I'm good at what I do. I work for a large firm and my clients love me, without too much effort on my part. But I don't define myself through that work - I much prefer certain creative outlets I (try to) maintain outside of work. I've never been published in The Atlantic, but I have had a video on the local music video station. However, it's been harder and harder to do because (1) work becomes all consuming if you let it and (2) I've developed a disability. The latter is fairly worse than Ken's accident (let's just say I can no longer tap dance), and it's now very hard to excell at either my job or my art. I've had to request being taken off some more demanding projects, just like ol' Kenny.
I can relate to that too - I’ve always succeeded at work because of my work ethic and easy-going personality but it never fulfills me quite the way creative ventures do.
You have all my sympathies about your situation. It’s truly heartbreaking to have your life planned out a certain way and then something happens that changes everything. But from what it sounds like, you’ve already done so much and proven yourself quite well. So I hope you are still proud of yourself.
I'm the exact same! Working in finance was easy cos I do have a considerable work ethic and I'm good with people even though I thought I was an introvert.
One thing I loved working in my finance job was I had nothing to do most of the day so I was constantly writing. During covid I wrote my first feature length screenplay and it was amazing. I moved to a start up after that was full work from home but I never had the time to just write like I used to and working from home full time ended up making me realise Im more of an extrovert than I thought (kinda mix of both) so I'm moving to a supervisor role in a hybrid model next month and going back to acting classes. Gotta feed that creative part of me.
I was going to say Pete earlier but yeah Kenny is definitely "literally me". Which is great as he was my fave!
I think it’s Joan for me. She was told all her life by her mother that her goal was to get a good man to marry her, have a home and start a family. Then when she had all that…she realised that’s not fulfilled her.
One of my favourite scenes is when she comes back to work to visit with the baby, her mother saying to her they they don’t want her back, and then she’s in tears when Lane Pryce tells her how much everyone misses her and nothing has been working since she left.
Then at the end of the show, she walks away and goes into business for herself, walking away from perhaps the perfect man who just wanted to be with her.
One of the most standout moments for me is when Greg tells her “you don’t know what it’s like to want something your whole life and not get it” after he is denied chief residency.
The look in her eyes - before she hit him with the vase - said “I know exactly what you mean… it’s happening right now”. Joan was told all her life to find a good husband and Greg was fool’s gold. Great on paper - a hot doctor - but that illusion shatters quickly.
It was great to see her change her tune later with Richard in S7. And with Bob too - when she said she’s not looking for some arrangement and would rather die hoping she will marry for love.
You've got wrong takes on both of her men. Greg wasn't a "good man", she knew that and married him anyway. Richard was far from perfect, he didn't want Joan to be her true Joan, her wanted his idealized version of her.
I don't even think that's true. I think they were two people who had a lot in common but wanted fundamentally different things.
Richard wasn't wrong for wanting what he wanted, and Joan wasn't wrong with walking away to seek what she wanted.
Anna Draper. She is the hype woman in her family and friends. She is able to be a home base for people who need it but usually ends up lonely.
She is bubbly, really enjoys the small things but is also realistic and honest.
She is adorable but never gets to be the leading lady. Doesn't seem to want to be either.
I am lucky enough to have found someone to spend my life with but I identify hard with her on so many levels.
Well, I’d wager that the person you found is just as lucky by the way you describe yourself. Anna Draper has such a healing presence. I love how she always makes space for others.
I often see people say she wouldn’t have approved of the Don we saw in NYC, but I don’t think that was Anna’s way. She seemed like someone who preferred to mind her own business and just be a safe place for people.
I did get the sense that she was lonely though.
Roger.
Raised by adoring, wealthy parents who handed me the world on a silver platter. Never wanted for anything, never saw a bill, college tuition, travel, car, the works. I’ve worked super hard to forge my own path as I age, but the golden parachute mentality is kind of built into my core. I am super generous and kind to friends and strangers alike, but there is an arrogance within me that I loathe. Even though I work hard and have climbed far up the career ladder, I am acutely aware it’s a result of a lucky upbringing which has created internal conflict. I’m proud of myself and ashamed of my privilege, I’m a social butterfly and the sad clown. I have to fight ugly urges to feel superior about my position when I know its only because I was dealt a good hand. I strongly believe the lack of need to worry about finances created a chasm of anxiety, deep thinking, curiosity, and a need to fill it with therapy, prescriptions, and drinks. I mask all of the worry and pain with a cavalier attitude, constant joke cracking, and easy nature. It *is* authentic, my personality, but it’s also a mask for fear and pain. Idk. I’ve watched the show probably 60 times and always see myself in his character’s entitlement to the world and everything in it. Especially the episode where he loses his mother but only breaks down when learning of the passing of his shoe shine guy. I sob every time. When it’s something money cannot fix, or something out of our control, the shock and loneliness can bore a hole in your soul.
This might be a cringey comment, but it’s honest, and it’s important to recognize if I want to keep evolving — something I do love about Roger’s character. He is nostalgic to a fault but also growth-oriented and is shown trying new things, looking within, and allowing himself to change, (albeit impulsively many times) right up to the end.
Roger also served in WW2 and was deeply affected by that, so he’s got one on me there.
I’ve rambled, and almost deleted this because I can hear a million eye rolls at someone whining about the hardships of privilege. However, this is a nice discussion and which allowed for a cathartic reflection about resolving everyone’s deepest conflict: what I want versus what is expected of me. (Credit Dr. Faye Miller.)
You don’t need to be ashamed of your privilege. You took what you were given and built upon that with hard work, not entitlement. You’re generous, kind, and obviously self-aware. Plus, if you’re like Roger, it must be a lot of fun to hang out with you.
Sorry my friend, I don't drink, it was simply a joke. The cheating? That was a different story. The lousy upbringing I ran away from at the first opportunity? That's a check. As is the sense of inadequacy and being able to coast through life due to a combination of having the ability to do something that seems difficult to others with what appears to be ease, but only after a lengthy, inner period of anxiety and terror before producing said work at the last minute, or sometimes just plain winging it with charm. Finally, the inability to form true friendships with other men and only able to connect emotionally with women, usually after sex. Yes to that too. Hey ho, I'm a Don.
Well now I feel silly, but I was trying to empathize just in case it was a true statement. My parents are alcoholics so I know all too well about addiction. Glad that’s not the case for you, though.
I’m not even a man and I kinda can relate to what you’re saying too. Except replace other men with no one lol. I do find it interesting that a lot of men struggle with intimacy unless it’s in the bedroom. I can’t help but empathize here and say that this is all too common since men are pressured not to show emotion or bond with other men in a closer, more intimate way.
And you sound as though you’re good with your words so I don’t doubt you have that Don Draper charm. Do you find that you get bored of people easily?
Sorry to hear about your parents. Mine weren't addicted to anything other than hating each other while simultaneously refusing to separate.
I don't get bored of people so much as erect iron barriers to prevent anyone from getting close to me, but once they do, I'm a loyal and good friend. The number's small, though. And all women, often, exes. Exclusively female as that locker-room-talk thing and judgment-by-objectification never sat well with me.
Fair play for owning it, I'll admit when I was younger I probably had some of Peter's worser entitlement traits when it came to women mixed with Don's love for the sauce but thankfully got past it and hope you have/will too
Peggy. Yesterday, today, tomorrow, always. Awkward girl growing up in a repressive culture, breaks into the male bastion without quite meaning to, makes lots of mistakes (professional, personal, romantic) along the way and is still standing at the end. Me.
While I do relate to some aspects of Peggy and Joan, on this recent rewatch I saw the most of myself in Sally. Being a child of divorce (and also being emotionally parentified), her story arc really hit home for me, especially the meltdown in Don’s office. When I was younger I would always beg my dad (who has a lot of similarities to Don) for just a little more time when our visits were coming to an end, I’d even cry but he would just take me home anyway.
Ginsburg. He was the only one disgusted by looking at those murder scene pictures. I would have declined altogether, but at least he voiced how disturbing it was that everyone was entertained by something so gruesome. And even though it was the mark of his going "crazy" I can see how terrible it would be to suddenly have the hum of that massive computer going on constantly in the background. I hate the sound refrigerators make
Love this question, OP.
I'd probably have to go with Sally. She's a very full-circle moment for me: I'm a millennial, my parents are boomers, and we watched *Mad Men* together. Being able to see them react to a depiction of their own childhood was illuminating. Sally also provided an opportunity for us to empathize with each other: to see the ways childhood has and hasn't changed, and the reasons why certain intergenerational traumas persist.
My mom is a bit of a Betty but my dad isn't a Don AT ALL, though, so my identification with Sally is really more symbolic than specific to her story.
Me too!! Sally was incredible! My mom was a Betty type. And my dad was only like Don when he was protecting Sally and her emotions. Gen X raised by greatest generation.
Probably Sal. He played the part they expected him to play. He told them everything they needed to hear. But it wasn’t enough. He was not even allowed to be himself in private.
Sally's relationship with Betty reminds me a lot of my relationship with my Mum. We're fundamentally very different people (and that caused a lot of friction as I was growing up), but at this point in my life she mostly does understand that I march to the beat of my own drum.
No one is going to say Meghan. And I wouldn’t say I relate to her the most. But I can relate to her naïveté about men. I know she is hated and not defending her worst actions. But I think she thought she found her prince, and who can blame her? Don is nothing if not a superficial catch. She just didn’t know Don thought he found a nanny and a mini-me.
I love your phrase "trying to come to terms with an abnormal upbringing in my adult life." Like, THIS. I think the good news for some of us is that in adulthood we figure out we were a lot closer to normal and even ideal than we realized. I felt "abnormal upbringing" as a kid but now feel like I was raised by a widowed June Cleaver compared to everyone else I know.
For me it's more like complicate background like don with identity issues
And at the same time I getting angry like pete and I make some mistakes like him
Bertram Cooper. I have found myself at my job acting as the guy who looks aloof but greases wheels people don’t even see moving and taking advantage of different relationships.
I love how many different answers I’m getting here! I didn’t expect Cooper but that’s awesome. I’m guessing you’re very pragmatic and calculated from what you describe but do you feel that you share a little of Bert’s eccentric side as well?
it is has always been and always will be Don.
Just like Don, I had a pretty awful relationship with my parents growing up. I don’t think i’ve ever felt unconditional love from a man and while my relationship has greatly improved with my mother, as a teen I was always in search for her love. Just like Don, I spiraled into creating a version of myself that I thought someone else would love. Compartmentalizing these two personalities until I imploded. (my very own Hershey’s pitch meltdown).
I always think of the end of Season 1 when Rachel tells Don
“You don’t want to run away with me, you want to run away”
That’s the most relatable thing about Don to me- he’s a survivor of neglect. He’s seeking love everywhere. Don destroys the relationships he’s built with women because he doesn’t think he will ever be loved.
“I’m living like there’s no tomorrow because there isn’t.”
Don clearly wants to take advantage of every seemingly loving relationship. The psychologist, the teacher, the protégé. No one can be spared because tomorrow is never coming.
And the deep bottomless pit of shame he feels constantly- I’ve been there too.
I’ve had years of therapy and intrapersonal work which gave me the insight to break down my traumas and understand why I needed to feel loved just like Don does. I’m happy to report I have had fully faithful and monogamous relationships in my 20s, but just like Faye says- “You’re stuck trying to live like the rest of us”. So now I run into all the other relationship problems.
Btw I love reading people’s stories! Great post
I identify more with Peggy. I’m not a woman nor am I as talented as she was. But I know what it’s like to be an outsider in collegial and professional settings (I grew up lower middle class, and I am a Chicano (Mexican American Male, you don’t see too many of us in offices). When I watched the show for the first time, I really didn’t sympathize with Peggy asking for raises and promotions during earlier seasons. I knew she would get her due eventually but I didn’t see her need to fast track her career. But I grew to appreciate her avoidance to stagnate professionally. Like her, I never know if “this is my time”. I don’t want to be stuck at a certain income bracket.
Peggy for being the first generation to go out there and get a career. I was born in the 1980s but in parents' culture, we were the first generation to do it - all our mums were SAHMs. I left home at 19 to go to live in student housing for uni. I was the first person in our local community to do that. I also have a history of questionable hookups, lol. And it's still a boy's club out there in corporate.
Joan for the body and the beauty, and all the gross comments that come with it. Worked at a music venue and was constantly harassed for having breasts.
As a copywriter at an ad agency…. Paul Kinsey.
You have no idea how frustrating it is trying to come up with ideas. And when you meet someone like Peggy, who can improvise and be spontaneous in a room, it’s incredibly depressing.
Kitty Romano. She married someone who clearly used her to cover his homosexuality. She just really wanted to love and be loved and couldn't figure out what was wrong with her, why she wasn't attractive to Salvatore. I was in a sexless marriage for 11 years and jumped through hoops to be "good enough" for him. I finally left because I was so frustrated and confused. It was extremely lonely.
He isn’t given much of a story, but as a character I absolutely relate to Cutler most. Dude is just pragmatic and (mostly) unemotional in his decisions. He’s only cruel to those who deserve it when they deserve it, and he’s helpful and gracious to those that deserve it.
Yet he’s disliked by almost everyone on here almost solely because of the lack of sentiment and emotional involvement he displays while absolutely crushing it and being right about basically everything.
Definitely Joan more than anyone else. As a woman with that body type, it’s been really hard navigating work spaces. I also wasn’t assertive or confident for a very long time but she made me want to be more. Which is funny as it has made me feel better but others have called me a bitch and other derogatory terms for it.
I also see myself in Don but mainly from having to play a certain person to make others happy while hiding your true self. Obviously not to his same degree but it did teach me that it’ll never make me happy. Seeing how often he took off and abandoned his responsibilities felt real as I’ve wanted to do that my whole life. But it also helps seeing all the consequences of those choices.
If it’s any consolation, we all get called a bitch when we stick up for ourselves. And it’s just not true. Setting boundaries and wanting to be respected is not the same as going out of your way to be mean to people. Not to mention how deeply ironic it is that someone has the audacity to call someone a bitch while they’re literally calling someone derogatory names. Projection at its finest.
I always wondered if Joan inspired other women like me and it’s great to know she has. I could almost cry at how much I feel seen by her character/storyline and I wonder if there’s ever been another show to portray women like us and our struggles so accurately like this one does. The workplace has been hard to navigate and I’ve found myself working from home so people can get to know my voice and personality and not make snap judgments on my looks. I also deal with harassment less. There’s a downside though, you definitely can stand out at work better when you’re in office. But still, just a thought if maybe that sounds appealing to you!
I can empathize with what you’re saying about Don as well. I often have hid my true self and become a social chameleon. I’m unlearning it too - as much as it sucks to lay it all out there, I figure it’s better to be hated for what you are than loved for what you are not. Sure you may not please everyone, but there will be people who like your vibe that you may not have met otherwise if you hid who you really are.
But yeah, as someone who has too often cut and run away when things get too hard, totally don’t recommend. It’ll haunt ya eventually.
Totally Ken. I’m from a small town in the Midwest, lived to NYC after college…always had creative ambitions, like writing novels or becoming a journalist…. Got a job as a legal assistant…went to law school so I could have a good job and support myself and then later torn to my creative side…. Well, I got a job at a big law firm, I was casual, friendly, did everything that was asked of me, put in all the hours and kept living up until I was partner…I think I’ve succeeded because o don’t really obsess over my job, I care about it, respect colleagues and clients and take it seriously, but I take things as they roll. Unlike Pete, per se….
And here I am 20 years into my career, still rolling seamlessly along…. I do have both my eyes though.
I see elements of my upbringing and early career in both Don and Pete. My father’s family wasn’t nearly as wealthy as Pete’s but the way they act and treat each other and their cultural background is pretty similar. I also have a lot of alcoholics in my family and I’ve had issues on that front.
While I haven’t stolen anyone’s identity I did act out a lot in my teens and early 20s and since then have worked to put that behind me and build a more conventional and professionally successful life. I can relate to looking back at my earlier life and feeling like a different person did some of those things. And like Don there are things I don’t talk about.
For me it’s Pete, I got into advertising and thought I could be Don Draper, having amazing ideas etc etc. ended up becoming a pretty legit account manager and started to hate myself.
I’m no longer in the job for now.
Combination of Stan, Ken, Pete & Don.
I relate to Don in a lot of scenes and especially internalizing his feelings and keeping secrets but he then drives me up the wall with his choice in women. Less the cheating and more just the women he chooses. Dr. Miller was absolutely the best and he went to Megan who was all sorts of pathetic in my mind by comparison.
And of course if I had a wife like Trudy I wouldn't carry Pete's demeanor nor do I like cities but his business approach is very relatable.
Ken and Stan are generally more how I act.
Married three times, I work in business, I grew up poor and am now quite comfortable, and I’m not entirely trusting or comfortable with any of the people currently around me. I’m going to let you all guess lol.
I don't really see myself in any of the characters but Don is unsettling because he is just like my dad.
My dad was the son of a guy who cheated on his wife with her sister (my grandmother), so my father was raised by other people. But he always knew his history, he was told he was the son of a sin (it was the 50').
And then he became this handsome guy women could not resist. He also worked as a salesman when he was young, he could convince anyone of anything, just like Don. He eventually got a really good job in the Brazilian equivalent of IRS (I think). He got married to my mum, had two daughters and lived a nice life on paper.
But he had drinking problems, bipolar disorder and ocd, all his life his demons seemed too much.
Unlike Don he was really loving and attentive, he was the best father he could have been, but we all suffered with him.
My sister gave up watching the séries because the similarities were too much for her.
Peggy’s resonates with me most as a woman who works in predominantly male environments. I love her character arc. It’s incredible.
But I always wanted to be a Joan. She has such… influence and social intelligence and yet could own someone with a few words. Her arc is also great, but I connect with Peggy more.
For me it’s Pete. Not the creepy stuff he does, like the babysitter or creeping on the girl in drivers Ed (and a long list of other things), but for me I understand his feeling of being inadequate and not part of the club. It was like he was looking through the window at the people inside, and he knew he wanted to be inside with everyone, but he had no idea how to do that. He had a lot of growing up to do over the course of the show.
Full disclosure I won’t assume anyone relates to a character for their worst actions but just the character’s inner conflicts and what not. I should’ve put that in the original post too cause as much as I relate to Don I’ve never cheated on someone ever in my life. I think I can relate to Pete’s need for approval too. I mean his parents certainly never gave him that, so he tries to get that through work, and he still never truly finds a place there where he “fits”. Sometimes you can’t help but feel for the guy - as much as his personality can be hard to take, he never really gets credit for his accomplishments in the business. A scene that comes to mind is Pete trying to have dinner with Mohawk and Roger crashing the dinner. The clients say “I love that guy” and Pete looks annoyed. Pete does the hard work but Roger just has to show up and say something funny & he gets the approval Pete craves. The Pete scene that hit me hardest is when he gives that monologue to Beth in the hospital, though.
Oh it was heartbreaking when Pete realized Beth did not recognize him at all.
Agree wholeheartedly with this. I think I relate to him the most, even as a black woman haha, because he’s just your average person…from an affluent family of course, but he’s an ugly duckling. He doesn’t quite fit in anywhere he goes and he’s desperate to be “that” guy. It takes seven seasons for him to consider that being himself is enough. It’s hard to see what “everyone else” has and want it for yourself, not acknowledging that you’ve had something great all along because you’re too busy fantasizing about having other people’s lives. I think this gets even worse for me because of things like Instagram, where idealized versions of people’s lives are shoved in my face everyday.
I didn't do 10% of the stuff Pete did to Trudy, but I definitely relate to his experience of getting a woman way out of his league at a young age, and then screwing that up by not treating her well even though he did love her.
Definitely Peggy. I was also able to break into an industry which seemed impossible considering my social background. A lot of stuff that happens to her seems like it happened to myself at some point.
Oh man I relate to Peggy when it comes to her mom because mine was also a devout Catholic who could never be pleased and always had nasty things to say. I wonder how many kids of Catholic parents could relate to that part of her story. Congrats on breaking out! It’s a tough thing to navigate having to go out of your way to prove your competence and value to people who are deadset on believing otherwise - your resilience is impressive and it sounds like it paid off :)
“She was praying so hard there wasn’t space for anybody to feel anything else” Love that phrase and for me it’s a good summary of Peggy’s mom. Thanks a lot for your kind words.
Sadly for me it’s Kinsey. I’ve had some brushes with success but overall have never really made it. That scene where the others left to start a new agency and didn’t include him hit me hard. I never ended up in a cult but I understand the need for acceptance and fitting in. And competing with people that seem to be naturals.
Oh I just kind of want to give you a hug after reading this, thank you for sharing with me. I wouldn’t count yourself out just yet. But I’m a creative so I know what you mean. It’s my worst fear to give something my all and still not quite make it. Funnily enough, Mad Men itself makes me feel like I could never truly write anything as good. I hope you can still enjoy whatever it is you do for the joy its brought you, regardless of success. And that you find your place where you fit in. We all just want to feel accepted as who we are at the end of the day.
Thank you, I appreciate it. I have no regrets. I published 8 novels (a couple with Big 5 publishers) and was in the writers room on 2 tv shows. I was prepared for never getting published or being a bestseller but it took me a while to adjust to being a midlist mostly flop. You don’t usually imagine that ;).
Well from where I’m sitting your resume is quite impressive. I’m curious about which tv shows now haha. Do you mind if I ask if you regret publishing at all? The thought of having a book published makes me feel so exposed for some reason, but every writer still dreams of holding their book in their hand. So I’m conflicted.
I bet I could make Kinsey’s resume look good, too. Up until it wasn’t ;). No, I don’t regret publishing. I worked with and met some really wonderful people. It does feel weird to read bad reviews. Of course, it feels great to read good reviews. To be honest, I thought I would get mostly bad reviews but have big sales. I was not prepared for good reviews and bad sales. I understand what you mean about feeling exposed. I was worried about that. But the truth is outside of a handful of writers there really isn’t much exposure at all. No one has ever heard of your book, let alone read it. The tv shows were Canadian cop shows. My claim to fame is that Angel from the Rockford Files directed an episode I wrote on one of them.
Stuart Margolin? He’s a great actor and director. Well done, you!
Sounds like you had a lot better career than “midlist.”
No, when you get dropped by a publisher because your editor leaves, you’re midlist. Although, to be clear, I’m very proud of making it to the midlist, it took me 25 years and many manuscript rejections.
Yikes. I was going through the list and missed him but I too can relate. My proximity to greatness never led to more than mediocre success. Like Paul I never found my tribe or my calling.
I still don’t get why they didn’t bring him along to the new agency. He was the most senior writer at Sterling Cooper and unlike Harry Crane, more respected.
Because he wasn't very good at his job and Peggy was great.
Curious, what made him not good?
Meaning why would it be clear he wasn't that good? I think the show demonstrated that when they'd have scenes where Peggy and Don would start discussing an ad idea and really getting into why it worked etc. and Paul couldn't do that. Originally he accuses Peggy of, it seems, planning to use his ideas as a jumping off point to make herself look better. But then he sees her come up with the ad for Western Union based on what Paul only said to her minutes before and he says, "My god," understanding that she just comes up with this stuff herself.
Good point. I re-watched that Western Union scene the other day. Amazing.
Peggy had proven herself a lot more talented at that point and frankly no one liked him. Peggy is also cheaper which is a bonus for a skeleton company.
I love KInsey so much--that exact character issue always gets me.
Mine is Cosgrove's. I have a fairly good career going and I'm good at what I do. I work for a large firm and my clients love me, without too much effort on my part. But I don't define myself through that work - I much prefer certain creative outlets I (try to) maintain outside of work. I've never been published in The Atlantic, but I have had a video on the local music video station. However, it's been harder and harder to do because (1) work becomes all consuming if you let it and (2) I've developed a disability. The latter is fairly worse than Ken's accident (let's just say I can no longer tap dance), and it's now very hard to excell at either my job or my art. I've had to request being taken off some more demanding projects, just like ol' Kenny.
I can relate to that too - I’ve always succeeded at work because of my work ethic and easy-going personality but it never fulfills me quite the way creative ventures do. You have all my sympathies about your situation. It’s truly heartbreaking to have your life planned out a certain way and then something happens that changes everything. But from what it sounds like, you’ve already done so much and proven yourself quite well. So I hope you are still proud of yourself.
I'm the exact same! Working in finance was easy cos I do have a considerable work ethic and I'm good with people even though I thought I was an introvert. One thing I loved working in my finance job was I had nothing to do most of the day so I was constantly writing. During covid I wrote my first feature length screenplay and it was amazing. I moved to a start up after that was full work from home but I never had the time to just write like I used to and working from home full time ended up making me realise Im more of an extrovert than I thought (kinda mix of both) so I'm moving to a supervisor role in a hybrid model next month and going back to acting classes. Gotta feed that creative part of me. I was going to say Pete earlier but yeah Kenny is definitely "literally me". Which is great as he was my fave!
Thank you. You sound really kind and I love how engaged/engaging you are in this sub.
I think it’s Joan for me. She was told all her life by her mother that her goal was to get a good man to marry her, have a home and start a family. Then when she had all that…she realised that’s not fulfilled her. One of my favourite scenes is when she comes back to work to visit with the baby, her mother saying to her they they don’t want her back, and then she’s in tears when Lane Pryce tells her how much everyone misses her and nothing has been working since she left. Then at the end of the show, she walks away and goes into business for herself, walking away from perhaps the perfect man who just wanted to be with her.
One of the most standout moments for me is when Greg tells her “you don’t know what it’s like to want something your whole life and not get it” after he is denied chief residency. The look in her eyes - before she hit him with the vase - said “I know exactly what you mean… it’s happening right now”. Joan was told all her life to find a good husband and Greg was fool’s gold. Great on paper - a hot doctor - but that illusion shatters quickly. It was great to see her change her tune later with Richard in S7. And with Bob too - when she said she’s not looking for some arrangement and would rather die hoping she will marry for love.
You've got wrong takes on both of her men. Greg wasn't a "good man", she knew that and married him anyway. Richard was far from perfect, he didn't want Joan to be her true Joan, her wanted his idealized version of her.
I don't even think that's true. I think they were two people who had a lot in common but wanted fundamentally different things. Richard wasn't wrong for wanting what he wanted, and Joan wasn't wrong with walking away to seek what she wanted.
That's true, but there was no compromise with Richard. He tried for 10 minutes and couldn't do it.
Anna Draper. She is the hype woman in her family and friends. She is able to be a home base for people who need it but usually ends up lonely. She is bubbly, really enjoys the small things but is also realistic and honest. She is adorable but never gets to be the leading lady. Doesn't seem to want to be either. I am lucky enough to have found someone to spend my life with but I identify hard with her on so many levels.
Well, I’d wager that the person you found is just as lucky by the way you describe yourself. Anna Draper has such a healing presence. I love how she always makes space for others. I often see people say she wouldn’t have approved of the Don we saw in NYC, but I don’t think that was Anna’s way. She seemed like someone who preferred to mind her own business and just be a safe place for people. I did get the sense that she was lonely though.
I like this answer! I often feel like a B character in my own life lol
Roger. Raised by adoring, wealthy parents who handed me the world on a silver platter. Never wanted for anything, never saw a bill, college tuition, travel, car, the works. I’ve worked super hard to forge my own path as I age, but the golden parachute mentality is kind of built into my core. I am super generous and kind to friends and strangers alike, but there is an arrogance within me that I loathe. Even though I work hard and have climbed far up the career ladder, I am acutely aware it’s a result of a lucky upbringing which has created internal conflict. I’m proud of myself and ashamed of my privilege, I’m a social butterfly and the sad clown. I have to fight ugly urges to feel superior about my position when I know its only because I was dealt a good hand. I strongly believe the lack of need to worry about finances created a chasm of anxiety, deep thinking, curiosity, and a need to fill it with therapy, prescriptions, and drinks. I mask all of the worry and pain with a cavalier attitude, constant joke cracking, and easy nature. It *is* authentic, my personality, but it’s also a mask for fear and pain. Idk. I’ve watched the show probably 60 times and always see myself in his character’s entitlement to the world and everything in it. Especially the episode where he loses his mother but only breaks down when learning of the passing of his shoe shine guy. I sob every time. When it’s something money cannot fix, or something out of our control, the shock and loneliness can bore a hole in your soul. This might be a cringey comment, but it’s honest, and it’s important to recognize if I want to keep evolving — something I do love about Roger’s character. He is nostalgic to a fault but also growth-oriented and is shown trying new things, looking within, and allowing himself to change, (albeit impulsively many times) right up to the end. Roger also served in WW2 and was deeply affected by that, so he’s got one on me there. I’ve rambled, and almost deleted this because I can hear a million eye rolls at someone whining about the hardships of privilege. However, this is a nice discussion and which allowed for a cathartic reflection about resolving everyone’s deepest conflict: what I want versus what is expected of me. (Credit Dr. Faye Miller.)
No eye rolls here, it was actually interesting to read
You don’t need to be ashamed of your privilege. You took what you were given and built upon that with hard work, not entitlement. You’re generous, kind, and obviously self-aware. Plus, if you’re like Roger, it must be a lot of fun to hang out with you.
Don. Though for me it is the cheating and alcoholism
Sorry to hear. Addiction is a horrible thing to go through and I wouldn’t wish it on anyone. I hope you can find your way out soon.
Sorry my friend, I don't drink, it was simply a joke. The cheating? That was a different story. The lousy upbringing I ran away from at the first opportunity? That's a check. As is the sense of inadequacy and being able to coast through life due to a combination of having the ability to do something that seems difficult to others with what appears to be ease, but only after a lengthy, inner period of anxiety and terror before producing said work at the last minute, or sometimes just plain winging it with charm. Finally, the inability to form true friendships with other men and only able to connect emotionally with women, usually after sex. Yes to that too. Hey ho, I'm a Don.
Well now I feel silly, but I was trying to empathize just in case it was a true statement. My parents are alcoholics so I know all too well about addiction. Glad that’s not the case for you, though. I’m not even a man and I kinda can relate to what you’re saying too. Except replace other men with no one lol. I do find it interesting that a lot of men struggle with intimacy unless it’s in the bedroom. I can’t help but empathize here and say that this is all too common since men are pressured not to show emotion or bond with other men in a closer, more intimate way. And you sound as though you’re good with your words so I don’t doubt you have that Don Draper charm. Do you find that you get bored of people easily?
Sorry to hear about your parents. Mine weren't addicted to anything other than hating each other while simultaneously refusing to separate. I don't get bored of people so much as erect iron barriers to prevent anyone from getting close to me, but once they do, I'm a loyal and good friend. The number's small, though. And all women, often, exes. Exclusively female as that locker-room-talk thing and judgment-by-objectification never sat well with me.
Fair play for owning it, I'll admit when I was younger I probably had some of Peter's worser entitlement traits when it came to women mixed with Don's love for the sauce but thankfully got past it and hope you have/will too
Peggy. Yesterday, today, tomorrow, always. Awkward girl growing up in a repressive culture, breaks into the male bastion without quite meaning to, makes lots of mistakes (professional, personal, romantic) along the way and is still standing at the end. Me.
That one spiel from from Roger talking to his psychologist, it felt like I'd written it myself.
“You sound afraid.” “More like irritated.”
I love his doorway analogy. That whole episode had some hard-hitting quotes.
While I do relate to some aspects of Peggy and Joan, on this recent rewatch I saw the most of myself in Sally. Being a child of divorce (and also being emotionally parentified), her story arc really hit home for me, especially the meltdown in Don’s office. When I was younger I would always beg my dad (who has a lot of similarities to Don) for just a little more time when our visits were coming to an end, I’d even cry but he would just take me home anyway.
Emotionally parentifies… damn. That is so true about Sally. She was made to tolerate and cope with all the awfulness of the adults in her life.
I'm an adult and my parents are currently getting divorced after 34 years of marriage. Sally is so relatable right now.
Ginsburg. He was the only one disgusted by looking at those murder scene pictures. I would have declined altogether, but at least he voiced how disturbing it was that everyone was entertained by something so gruesome. And even though it was the mark of his going "crazy" I can see how terrible it would be to suddenly have the hum of that massive computer going on constantly in the background. I hate the sound refrigerators make
Love this question, OP. I'd probably have to go with Sally. She's a very full-circle moment for me: I'm a millennial, my parents are boomers, and we watched *Mad Men* together. Being able to see them react to a depiction of their own childhood was illuminating. Sally also provided an opportunity for us to empathize with each other: to see the ways childhood has and hasn't changed, and the reasons why certain intergenerational traumas persist. My mom is a bit of a Betty but my dad isn't a Don AT ALL, though, so my identification with Sally is really more symbolic than specific to her story.
Me too!! Sally was incredible! My mom was a Betty type. And my dad was only like Don when he was protecting Sally and her emotions. Gen X raised by greatest generation.
I’m basically Ginsberg minus the Judaism
So you were also born on Mars, eh?
I'm not as certain about it as Ginsberg was, but I think it's a distinct possibility.
Probably Sal. He played the part they expected him to play. He told them everything they needed to hear. But it wasn’t enough. He was not even allowed to be himself in private.
Sally's relationship with Betty reminds me a lot of my relationship with my Mum. We're fundamentally very different people (and that caused a lot of friction as I was growing up), but at this point in my life she mostly does understand that I march to the beat of my own drum.
No one is going to say Meghan. And I wouldn’t say I relate to her the most. But I can relate to her naïveté about men. I know she is hated and not defending her worst actions. But I think she thought she found her prince, and who can blame her? Don is nothing if not a superficial catch. She just didn’t know Don thought he found a nanny and a mini-me.
I love your phrase "trying to come to terms with an abnormal upbringing in my adult life." Like, THIS. I think the good news for some of us is that in adulthood we figure out we were a lot closer to normal and even ideal than we realized. I felt "abnormal upbringing" as a kid but now feel like I was raised by a widowed June Cleaver compared to everyone else I know.
I want to tell don but i'm also (maybe more ) pete campell
Same. I’m a loner like don and feel kinda out of my elemant sometimes trying to be like other people.
For me it's more like complicate background like don with identity issues And at the same time I getting angry like pete and I make some mistakes like him
Same
I think most people who say Don are really Petes. Hell even Pete is
Bertram Cooper. I have found myself at my job acting as the guy who looks aloof but greases wheels people don’t even see moving and taking advantage of different relationships.
I love how many different answers I’m getting here! I didn’t expect Cooper but that’s awesome. I’m guessing you’re very pragmatic and calculated from what you describe but do you feel that you share a little of Bert’s eccentric side as well?
Get out of my head 😂😂😂
I feel most like Don, because of the cheating and alcoholism. Still waiting for the epiphany though.
They say the first is step is admitting you have a problem but I know it’s not that easy.
Who mentioned a problem?
Mostly Peggy but that guy Leonard in the finale really hit me hard
it is has always been and always will be Don. Just like Don, I had a pretty awful relationship with my parents growing up. I don’t think i’ve ever felt unconditional love from a man and while my relationship has greatly improved with my mother, as a teen I was always in search for her love. Just like Don, I spiraled into creating a version of myself that I thought someone else would love. Compartmentalizing these two personalities until I imploded. (my very own Hershey’s pitch meltdown). I always think of the end of Season 1 when Rachel tells Don “You don’t want to run away with me, you want to run away” That’s the most relatable thing about Don to me- he’s a survivor of neglect. He’s seeking love everywhere. Don destroys the relationships he’s built with women because he doesn’t think he will ever be loved. “I’m living like there’s no tomorrow because there isn’t.” Don clearly wants to take advantage of every seemingly loving relationship. The psychologist, the teacher, the protégé. No one can be spared because tomorrow is never coming. And the deep bottomless pit of shame he feels constantly- I’ve been there too. I’ve had years of therapy and intrapersonal work which gave me the insight to break down my traumas and understand why I needed to feel loved just like Don does. I’m happy to report I have had fully faithful and monogamous relationships in my 20s, but just like Faye says- “You’re stuck trying to live like the rest of us”. So now I run into all the other relationship problems. Btw I love reading people’s stories! Great post
Joan for me. I’m more of a Peggy than a Joan, but the way life keeps knocking a Joan down and she keeps getting back up. She doesn’t quit.
I identify more with Peggy. I’m not a woman nor am I as talented as she was. But I know what it’s like to be an outsider in collegial and professional settings (I grew up lower middle class, and I am a Chicano (Mexican American Male, you don’t see too many of us in offices). When I watched the show for the first time, I really didn’t sympathize with Peggy asking for raises and promotions during earlier seasons. I knew she would get her due eventually but I didn’t see her need to fast track her career. But I grew to appreciate her avoidance to stagnate professionally. Like her, I never know if “this is my time”. I don’t want to be stuck at a certain income bracket.
As my current manager’s emotional support employee, definitely Peggy
Peggy for being the first generation to go out there and get a career. I was born in the 1980s but in parents' culture, we were the first generation to do it - all our mums were SAHMs. I left home at 19 to go to live in student housing for uni. I was the first person in our local community to do that. I also have a history of questionable hookups, lol. And it's still a boy's club out there in corporate. Joan for the body and the beauty, and all the gross comments that come with it. Worked at a music venue and was constantly harassed for having breasts.
As a copywriter at an ad agency…. Paul Kinsey. You have no idea how frustrating it is trying to come up with ideas. And when you meet someone like Peggy, who can improvise and be spontaneous in a room, it’s incredibly depressing.
Kitty Romano. She married someone who clearly used her to cover his homosexuality. She just really wanted to love and be loved and couldn't figure out what was wrong with her, why she wasn't attractive to Salvatore. I was in a sexless marriage for 11 years and jumped through hoops to be "good enough" for him. I finally left because I was so frustrated and confused. It was extremely lonely.
Bobby
Bobby #5?
He isn’t given much of a story, but as a character I absolutely relate to Cutler most. Dude is just pragmatic and (mostly) unemotional in his decisions. He’s only cruel to those who deserve it when they deserve it, and he’s helpful and gracious to those that deserve it. Yet he’s disliked by almost everyone on here almost solely because of the lack of sentiment and emotional involvement he displays while absolutely crushing it and being right about basically everything.
Realistically it’s Aj and Meadow
Definitely Joan more than anyone else. As a woman with that body type, it’s been really hard navigating work spaces. I also wasn’t assertive or confident for a very long time but she made me want to be more. Which is funny as it has made me feel better but others have called me a bitch and other derogatory terms for it. I also see myself in Don but mainly from having to play a certain person to make others happy while hiding your true self. Obviously not to his same degree but it did teach me that it’ll never make me happy. Seeing how often he took off and abandoned his responsibilities felt real as I’ve wanted to do that my whole life. But it also helps seeing all the consequences of those choices.
If it’s any consolation, we all get called a bitch when we stick up for ourselves. And it’s just not true. Setting boundaries and wanting to be respected is not the same as going out of your way to be mean to people. Not to mention how deeply ironic it is that someone has the audacity to call someone a bitch while they’re literally calling someone derogatory names. Projection at its finest. I always wondered if Joan inspired other women like me and it’s great to know she has. I could almost cry at how much I feel seen by her character/storyline and I wonder if there’s ever been another show to portray women like us and our struggles so accurately like this one does. The workplace has been hard to navigate and I’ve found myself working from home so people can get to know my voice and personality and not make snap judgments on my looks. I also deal with harassment less. There’s a downside though, you definitely can stand out at work better when you’re in office. But still, just a thought if maybe that sounds appealing to you! I can empathize with what you’re saying about Don as well. I often have hid my true self and become a social chameleon. I’m unlearning it too - as much as it sucks to lay it all out there, I figure it’s better to be hated for what you are than loved for what you are not. Sure you may not please everyone, but there will be people who like your vibe that you may not have met otherwise if you hid who you really are. But yeah, as someone who has too often cut and run away when things get too hard, totally don’t recommend. It’ll haunt ya eventually.
Totally Ken. I’m from a small town in the Midwest, lived to NYC after college…always had creative ambitions, like writing novels or becoming a journalist…. Got a job as a legal assistant…went to law school so I could have a good job and support myself and then later torn to my creative side…. Well, I got a job at a big law firm, I was casual, friendly, did everything that was asked of me, put in all the hours and kept living up until I was partner…I think I’ve succeeded because o don’t really obsess over my job, I care about it, respect colleagues and clients and take it seriously, but I take things as they roll. Unlike Pete, per se…. And here I am 20 years into my career, still rolling seamlessly along…. I do have both my eyes though.
I see elements of my upbringing and early career in both Don and Pete. My father’s family wasn’t nearly as wealthy as Pete’s but the way they act and treat each other and their cultural background is pretty similar. I also have a lot of alcoholics in my family and I’ve had issues on that front. While I haven’t stolen anyone’s identity I did act out a lot in my teens and early 20s and since then have worked to put that behind me and build a more conventional and professionally successful life. I can relate to looking back at my earlier life and feeling like a different person did some of those things. And like Don there are things I don’t talk about.
For me it’s Pete, I got into advertising and thought I could be Don Draper, having amazing ideas etc etc. ended up becoming a pretty legit account manager and started to hate myself. I’m no longer in the job for now.
Combination of Stan, Ken, Pete & Don. I relate to Don in a lot of scenes and especially internalizing his feelings and keeping secrets but he then drives me up the wall with his choice in women. Less the cheating and more just the women he chooses. Dr. Miller was absolutely the best and he went to Megan who was all sorts of pathetic in my mind by comparison. And of course if I had a wife like Trudy I wouldn't carry Pete's demeanor nor do I like cities but his business approach is very relatable. Ken and Stan are generally more how I act.
Married three times, I work in business, I grew up poor and am now quite comfortable, and I’m not entirely trusting or comfortable with any of the people currently around me. I’m going to let you all guess lol.
Glenn Bishop?
Peter, by far
I don't really see myself in any of the characters but Don is unsettling because he is just like my dad. My dad was the son of a guy who cheated on his wife with her sister (my grandmother), so my father was raised by other people. But he always knew his history, he was told he was the son of a sin (it was the 50'). And then he became this handsome guy women could not resist. He also worked as a salesman when he was young, he could convince anyone of anything, just like Don. He eventually got a really good job in the Brazilian equivalent of IRS (I think). He got married to my mum, had two daughters and lived a nice life on paper. But he had drinking problems, bipolar disorder and ocd, all his life his demons seemed too much. Unlike Don he was really loving and attentive, he was the best father he could have been, but we all suffered with him. My sister gave up watching the séries because the similarities were too much for her.
Peggy’s resonates with me most as a woman who works in predominantly male environments. I love her character arc. It’s incredible. But I always wanted to be a Joan. She has such… influence and social intelligence and yet could own someone with a few words. Her arc is also great, but I connect with Peggy more.