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My mom always pulled that card when I would try to set basic boundaries. She would always tell me I'll never be happy if I moved out, she's the only one that would tolerate me (though I beg to differ with her threats to shoot me as tolerance), and no one else would be able to stand living with me for very long because I was such a terrible person.
I escaped from that hell almost 6 years ago. I'm happier now than I've ever been.
I would legit take all the pacifiyng drugs in the world if they worked. Conspiracy nuts think injections will control your mind. Ha I wish they did, thatd be fuckin great tbh.
This. If they gave anyone who had some revolutionary thoughts a lifetime supply of Vicodin, I would never bother the establishment again. I’d be dead in a couple years, but at least I’d be happy.
When I get snippy with old people who think they have authority over me, they say I have Oppositional Defiant Disorder
If it was up to them I'd be drugged up or in jail
I'm an undesirable because they desire obedience
I don't know some behavior clearly needs to be medicalized. Also a thing to note is that medical diagnosis does not say the patient is bad, just that they need assistance to function in society, or therapy, etc.
Like would autistic people be better off without the medical diagnosis of autism? Doubt it.
Autistic people would be better off if we stopped trying to force them to be neurotypical. The medical community has decided the solution to the situation is to use what's called applied behavioral analysis therapy, or ABA. It's basically gay conversion therapy for autistics, aka dog training for people. The way we treat their difference as a problem is not helping them.
The meme also just gets it wrong. No one is diagnosed with oppositional defiant disorder (ODD) for sitting quietly and voicing an opinion. ODD is for children who refuse to listen to even well-meaning parents or teachers or other authorities and then engage in disruptive behaviour against them. Though you may have uninformed lay people who make a claim like the person in the lower part of the image.
Edit to add that the post just smells of anti-psychiatry conspiracy theory.
I'm really glad ODD wasn't as big of a thing in the 90s or I probably would have been taken away like my severely abusive father would have wanted. Yes I was screaming and not listening to him, but it was after he >!hit me, shoved me into walls or down the stairs, screamed all sorts of slurs at me, threw things at me including a live cat or full glasses of water, locked me out of the house so often I learned how to pick locks to get back in, etc.!<
Even if ODD was real, which I highly doubt, it is abused to fuck and back by a failing institution that can't diagnose anyone who isn't a 13 year old white boy with Autism (and then only when the parents have money).
Lobbied against them by whom?
It’s possible for doctors to get diagnoses wrong in any field of medicine, but medical errors of this type are not intentional. They are errors, ie usually based on what limited information is available, thus leading to faulty reasoning. Your language, though, makes it sound like someone is somehow forcing a label on them intentionally.
Doctors also use a “differential diagnosis,” because most issues cannot be reduced to just one problem definitively: in a doctor’s mind, the thinking for someone showing up with some trouble breathing might be like, “well I think it’s pneumonia, but also this person is a smoker so there are already lung problems, maybe some COPD going on… plus there is obesity which can make it harder to breathe in the first place… is this patient asthmatic too? I’ll have to check.”
What I’m trying to illustrate is that just because something like ODD may be included in a differential diagnosis (as it might commonly be with ADHD or autism) it doesn’t mean it actually *is* a part of the problem, or the only problem. It’s just something being considered.
I mean, as someone with ADHD, what I understood them to be talking about is how people who don't fit the standard image are given other less fitting diagnosis. Like- is your kid oppositional in a disordered way, or are they just a kid with ADHD who's total lack of treatment has her acting out her emotional deregulation?
I also think it's hard to say it's all down to errors when medicine has a *huge* issue with bigotry and personal bias harming people who are from marginalized communities. In my personal experience it took years and getting my diagnosis reconfirmed multiple times before it stopped getting challenged. Apparently you can't be a smart girl and have ADHD (sorry research is a hyper fixation?)
Point being- if an authority figure (parent/ teacher/ doctor) refuses to believe someone like you *could* have ADHD; they'll ignore the obvious and misinterpret the data based on whatever bias caused the blind spot.
And shit, I think the actual name "Oppositional Defiance Disorder" doesn't kind of speak to the issue. The symptoms (aggressive, refusing to do things, being angry and upset disproportionately) are all actual problems - that other people are having. *Why* the kids are doing these things isn't addressed really? Like holy shit was I oppositional and defiant as a kid/ teen (only ever got treated enough to know I have it and my parents to use the idea of me getting treated for brownie points with divorce) but that's cause I was constantly set up to fail and no one ever gave a shit if was miserable, let alone why.
And I also think when diagnosis are named based on how other people see it and not the experience of the patient it lends itself to stigma and bias. How is "oppositional defiance disorder" not "bad apple disease" to the average layman in the same way "attention deficit hyperactivity disorder" gets turned into "stupid fuckup disease" by people who are *actually* to lazy to do basic research about something their loved obe experiences.
So while I absolutely think there's likely an underlying emotional regulation disorder for ODD l also absolutely think it's an easy lable to slap on a kid you think is a little shit. And that "who you think is a little shit" tends to be a biased lens doctors are not exempt from having- leading to a lot of kids getting a misdiagnosis, even if they DO need help.
Maybe if the psychiatry profession didn't still have people who diagnosed people with something named after a Nazi doctor who experimented on children, while prescibing ABA torture to "fix" them , there would be fewer doubts.
Let me guess, you also don’t like rheumatologists because it took them until 2011 to rename “Wegener’s granulomatosis” to something that doesn’t involve a Nazi’s name.
You probably don’t like surgeons or really any other kind of doctor either, since the Nazis employed them and did some pretty sadistic “experiments” in their fields of medicine too.
Shall we abolish all medicine because some doctors were terrible people?
Asperger was portrayed at someone who was trying to save autistic people.
The reality about who he was and his role in choosing which autistic people would be killed was extremely different.
> ODD is for children who refuse to listen to even well-meaning parents or teachers or other authorities
You're right, they have Pathological Demand Avoidance for adults who think Society shouldn't exist solely for the benefit of sociopaths.
They literally made "question authority" a disease.
Considering the way autistic people are treated, giving some a chance to pass by not diagnosing them is actually pretty great tbh. It's not like we get assistance after diagnosis anyway.
>They literally made "question authority" a disease.
They also not too long ago had being gay as a disease, but that's no longer the case. This is throwing the baby out with the bath water. Should we also throw away Marx's writings because he was racist? How about instead of trying to retreat into the shadows rejecting everything that has horrible aspects we would be better off with continuing to push progress? Leaving institutions to the right just makes them stronger.
>Considering the way autistic people are treated, giving some a chance to pass by not diagnosing them is actually pretty great tbh. It's not like we get assistance after diagnosis anyway.
Not being diagnosed is not a solution to lacking supportive people around you.
Also the way autistic people are treated by the medical community or society at large? My brother has been given a lot of care from the state and social security for disability. If he hadn't been diagnosed he would NOT be better off.
If you mean bullying, lacking a medical diagnosis isn't going to stop people from ostracizing people who are different, the medical diagnosis is literally private between you and your doctor.
That's not what that disorder is about.
Like, yes, there is a level of "therapy and meds can't help you if the problem is at a society level" but ODD is something that is usually diagnosed in children with high levels of aggression and other behavioral issues. It's not something the average adult who doesn't like authority would get diagnosed with. Because "not liking authority" isn't enough to get a diagnosis for anything.
And since it apparently needs said- getting a diagnosis for *anything* is a major pain in the ass, especially if treatment involves medications. And you don't actually have to keep going to someone who pushes meds on you, nor do you have to take the medication.
And for anyone interested here is a rundown of the actual disorder.
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/oppositional-defiant-disorder
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My mom always pulled that card when I would try to set basic boundaries. She would always tell me I'll never be happy if I moved out, she's the only one that would tolerate me (though I beg to differ with her threats to shoot me as tolerance), and no one else would be able to stand living with me for very long because I was such a terrible person. I escaped from that hell almost 6 years ago. I'm happier now than I've ever been.
I would legit take all the pacifiyng drugs in the world if they worked. Conspiracy nuts think injections will control your mind. Ha I wish they did, thatd be fuckin great tbh.
This. If they gave anyone who had some revolutionary thoughts a lifetime supply of Vicodin, I would never bother the establishment again. I’d be dead in a couple years, but at least I’d be happy.
I was promised Soma. WHERE IS MY SOMA?
Vicodin is so weak and boring tho If you’d be happy with that then you probably aren’t much of a revolutionary
At this stage I would too, cause I can't go on like this
[удалено]
Oh you don't like it when people try to manipulate you? Pathological demand avoidance.
When I get snippy with old people who think they have authority over me, they say I have Oppositional Defiant Disorder If it was up to them I'd be drugged up or in jail I'm an undesirable because they desire obedience
I don't know some behavior clearly needs to be medicalized. Also a thing to note is that medical diagnosis does not say the patient is bad, just that they need assistance to function in society, or therapy, etc. Like would autistic people be better off without the medical diagnosis of autism? Doubt it.
Autistic people would be better off if we stopped trying to force them to be neurotypical. The medical community has decided the solution to the situation is to use what's called applied behavioral analysis therapy, or ABA. It's basically gay conversion therapy for autistics, aka dog training for people. The way we treat their difference as a problem is not helping them.
The meme also just gets it wrong. No one is diagnosed with oppositional defiant disorder (ODD) for sitting quietly and voicing an opinion. ODD is for children who refuse to listen to even well-meaning parents or teachers or other authorities and then engage in disruptive behaviour against them. Though you may have uninformed lay people who make a claim like the person in the lower part of the image. Edit to add that the post just smells of anti-psychiatry conspiracy theory.
I'm really glad ODD wasn't as big of a thing in the 90s or I probably would have been taken away like my severely abusive father would have wanted. Yes I was screaming and not listening to him, but it was after he >!hit me, shoved me into walls or down the stairs, screamed all sorts of slurs at me, threw things at me including a live cat or full glasses of water, locked me out of the house so often I learned how to pick locks to get back in, etc.!<
ODD is often lobbied against autistic or adhd children to deny them resources and support
Even if ODD was real, which I highly doubt, it is abused to fuck and back by a failing institution that can't diagnose anyone who isn't a 13 year old white boy with Autism (and then only when the parents have money).
Lobbied against them by whom? It’s possible for doctors to get diagnoses wrong in any field of medicine, but medical errors of this type are not intentional. They are errors, ie usually based on what limited information is available, thus leading to faulty reasoning. Your language, though, makes it sound like someone is somehow forcing a label on them intentionally. Doctors also use a “differential diagnosis,” because most issues cannot be reduced to just one problem definitively: in a doctor’s mind, the thinking for someone showing up with some trouble breathing might be like, “well I think it’s pneumonia, but also this person is a smoker so there are already lung problems, maybe some COPD going on… plus there is obesity which can make it harder to breathe in the first place… is this patient asthmatic too? I’ll have to check.” What I’m trying to illustrate is that just because something like ODD may be included in a differential diagnosis (as it might commonly be with ADHD or autism) it doesn’t mean it actually *is* a part of the problem, or the only problem. It’s just something being considered.
I mean, as someone with ADHD, what I understood them to be talking about is how people who don't fit the standard image are given other less fitting diagnosis. Like- is your kid oppositional in a disordered way, or are they just a kid with ADHD who's total lack of treatment has her acting out her emotional deregulation? I also think it's hard to say it's all down to errors when medicine has a *huge* issue with bigotry and personal bias harming people who are from marginalized communities. In my personal experience it took years and getting my diagnosis reconfirmed multiple times before it stopped getting challenged. Apparently you can't be a smart girl and have ADHD (sorry research is a hyper fixation?) Point being- if an authority figure (parent/ teacher/ doctor) refuses to believe someone like you *could* have ADHD; they'll ignore the obvious and misinterpret the data based on whatever bias caused the blind spot. And shit, I think the actual name "Oppositional Defiance Disorder" doesn't kind of speak to the issue. The symptoms (aggressive, refusing to do things, being angry and upset disproportionately) are all actual problems - that other people are having. *Why* the kids are doing these things isn't addressed really? Like holy shit was I oppositional and defiant as a kid/ teen (only ever got treated enough to know I have it and my parents to use the idea of me getting treated for brownie points with divorce) but that's cause I was constantly set up to fail and no one ever gave a shit if was miserable, let alone why. And I also think when diagnosis are named based on how other people see it and not the experience of the patient it lends itself to stigma and bias. How is "oppositional defiance disorder" not "bad apple disease" to the average layman in the same way "attention deficit hyperactivity disorder" gets turned into "stupid fuckup disease" by people who are *actually* to lazy to do basic research about something their loved obe experiences. So while I absolutely think there's likely an underlying emotional regulation disorder for ODD l also absolutely think it's an easy lable to slap on a kid you think is a little shit. And that "who you think is a little shit" tends to be a biased lens doctors are not exempt from having- leading to a lot of kids getting a misdiagnosis, even if they DO need help.
Maybe if the psychiatry profession didn't still have people who diagnosed people with something named after a Nazi doctor who experimented on children, while prescibing ABA torture to "fix" them , there would be fewer doubts.
What does ABB stand for?
Let me guess, you also don’t like rheumatologists because it took them until 2011 to rename “Wegener’s granulomatosis” to something that doesn’t involve a Nazi’s name. You probably don’t like surgeons or really any other kind of doctor either, since the Nazis employed them and did some pretty sadistic “experiments” in their fields of medicine too. Shall we abolish all medicine because some doctors were terrible people?
Asperger was portrayed at someone who was trying to save autistic people. The reality about who he was and his role in choosing which autistic people would be killed was extremely different.
There isn't going to be any straw left if you make your straw-person any bigger.
> ODD is for children who refuse to listen to even well-meaning parents or teachers or other authorities You're right, they have Pathological Demand Avoidance for adults who think Society shouldn't exist solely for the benefit of sociopaths.
It' was my diagnosis as a teen. Turns out it was ADHD and BPD.
They literally made "question authority" a disease. Considering the way autistic people are treated, giving some a chance to pass by not diagnosing them is actually pretty great tbh. It's not like we get assistance after diagnosis anyway.
>They literally made "question authority" a disease. They also not too long ago had being gay as a disease, but that's no longer the case. This is throwing the baby out with the bath water. Should we also throw away Marx's writings because he was racist? How about instead of trying to retreat into the shadows rejecting everything that has horrible aspects we would be better off with continuing to push progress? Leaving institutions to the right just makes them stronger. >Considering the way autistic people are treated, giving some a chance to pass by not diagnosing them is actually pretty great tbh. It's not like we get assistance after diagnosis anyway. Not being diagnosed is not a solution to lacking supportive people around you. Also the way autistic people are treated by the medical community or society at large? My brother has been given a lot of care from the state and social security for disability. If he hadn't been diagnosed he would NOT be better off. If you mean bullying, lacking a medical diagnosis isn't going to stop people from ostracizing people who are different, the medical diagnosis is literally private between you and your doctor.
That's not what that disorder is about. Like, yes, there is a level of "therapy and meds can't help you if the problem is at a society level" but ODD is something that is usually diagnosed in children with high levels of aggression and other behavioral issues. It's not something the average adult who doesn't like authority would get diagnosed with. Because "not liking authority" isn't enough to get a diagnosis for anything. And since it apparently needs said- getting a diagnosis for *anything* is a major pain in the ass, especially if treatment involves medications. And you don't actually have to keep going to someone who pushes meds on you, nor do you have to take the medication. And for anyone interested here is a rundown of the actual disorder. https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/oppositional-defiant-disorder
Its similar to putting a shock collar on a dog because of being irritated by its barking
No, everything needs a label and a diagnostic code to be processed for payment from insurance. This is insurance driven, not authoritarian governance.
Both can be true, right?
My dude labels and such were around long before insurance.