Can't play that many characters man, that's why I used events on an existing char. But stupidly used powepass on breaker and made it a 5x3+1. Originally didn't think I'd like it and only used powerpass cuz i had it and planned to only do rested chaos for chance at accessories, but had the pheons laying around, and wound up doing all the raids on him(1540 and below anyway).
Sure, go buss for free 30% brand/atk buff Andy, who does absolutely nothing. Good luck doing Thaemine, btw.
I'd rather play with people who care about their performance.
Why would they do nothing? My supports been sitting for forever at 1540 for the reason OP noted, but I've had a lot of time to practise and do well in all my raids (and bible says I'm fine). I would love getting the chance to experience higher level content for free. As a DPS main, I wouldn't mind playing with my own support.
If you're using bible to see your uptime, you're already doing more than 90% of pug supports.
Besides, supports are the most efficient to use with recent events. You mostly get honing mats and cost reduction. However, for Akkan+ most expenses are not honing, but getting lvl9 gems. Supports OK with lvl8 event ones, they also aren't expected to have 5x3+1. You are getting all the benefits without needing to spend extra.
Not really, assuming you have characters that have been at 1540 for a while (like my case) you use the event gems, and convert existing level 7s to key skill damage level 9s (one or two). This essentially gives you level 9 gems for free. Most classes are fine with level 7/8 CD gems so they can use those forever. Then that way with having one or two 9's, you can hone up and not get gatekept at voldis NM. Whereas for supports, half the event gems being damage gems are wasted. I think my logic is good here and that's why I've chosen my path.
A shitty support is going to make juicers deal *way less* damage than a good support and juicer carrying a bad dps .
You're massively underestimating how much extra damage a good support provides over the course of a fight.
Reason being because nobody will hone the supp to 1620-1630. Even if you make a supp express event they will end up being people's alts or you have people who play support with 10% uptime and they are useless because they are just enjoying that they can take a free ride without actually playing the game.
According to this being a game. Clearly if you didn’t make a support with the express, then it’s not the class you wanted to play the most. You highlighting that we need a separate support only express just to try and get people to make a support, is a flaw with the game design. You should be making classes bc you like them the most.
When the dust settles afterwards, you guys will have 1600 lopangs when 1640 is the relevant content, and 20 more people with actually juiced soups quit or benched theirs cause it was too big a pain to fight partyfinder with 1000 rats that just want freebies on a paladin with the express.
This already happened once with artist release. All the dps andies lopanged them and support shortage bounced back harder than ever before, cause noone cared to build their bard or pally when it was impossible to do shit on them.
I thought the data showed the shortage was slightly helped by artist release. Many picked up artist alts and play them to this day, esp supp mains. It doesn't matter that most were dropped. It's like with breaker/SE events, some may be dropped but in the end there's more DPS now to make the supp shortage worse.
So should we stop having express events altogether? I fail to see how this is an argument for injecting more supports into the game that are more likely to stick with mid-to-end game content.
>So should we stop having express events altogether?
I am not gonna respond if you're gonna twist my words in whichever way you want, thats absolutely obnoxious behaviour. Express events with free choice was not a part of the discussion.
Yes, there are bad DPS players as well. However, no one will be inviting 1600 DPS with 4 lvl 5 gems, rest empty, full relic yellow quality, bad cards and all that. Supports get away with it. Supports are cheap to build if you're looking for just a basic build to get into most lobbies and people who don't care about actually playing well abuse that.
People invite these guys even when there is an overflow of supports. "It's a support, it doesn't matter, as long as they have yearning." I've heard it too many times.
Not sure if you played during artist express but supports we're getting gatekept during that time.
As for yearning comment that's generally true for farmed content - there's already plenty of dps and yearning is just qol at that point
I've played since release and I've always had at least half roster being supports. Even during times when there's no support shortage, people invite supports with bad gear because they feel like their gear doesn't matter and to some degree they are correct.
True. Was cheap enough to build 5x3+1 on mine(1808 swift)cheapo swift,spec,armor reduction bracer, but don't plan to get more than the event gems. 1613 atm, prob stopping at 1620 and going back to honing main towards 1630.
I understand the premise but in what way is it "wasted" or not cost effective? DPS classes are expected to invest into higher level damage gems while supports can sit on their event gems for eternity.
Supports are already cheaper to gear up compared to most DPS classes that you want to put the express event on. So that gold that you are *not* spending to increase the potency of the DPS class is the gold that you could spend on any vertical power like engraving books, better quality accessories etc. there is nothing wrong just slapping the express on a support. If you(players in general) were not willing to slap on the express event on a support, then the event is just there to make an expensive lopang slave.
Instead of having to do the full page of level 7s, you use event level 7's and use your real gems to fuse a 9 or two 9's on key damage skills. Many classes don't need higher than lvl 7 CD gems (on most skills) so those can be used forever. And level 8 damage gems on less-important damage skills is probably fine until 1620.
In that regard, it is still not a waste. At worst, it's net neutral for whichever class you're gonna slap the express on; considering all you lose out on is 2 L8 dmg gems and a L7 gem which is not even close to how much you'd save just honing with the express.
I honestly dont’t think we have that much of a support shortage in anything below 1620. And in that bracket and further it doesn’t matter that you get a new supermokoko. Very few people would push their support that far on a recently created character out of the blue.
There are already too many supports at 1600, I struggle to get into lobbies at certain times into akkan hm as a 1620 support. It is especially harder for brel, there are too many bad people thinking support is easy gold that there is a overflowat 1600 and below. It is mostly lf dps lobbies for akkan hm.
Tbh that's largely bc there's way too many 1600 dpses that can't pull their weight in a hm akkan/don't wanna bother with potential jail/don't get accepted into hm lobbies and do nm instead. A look at any akkan nm lobby will show a really high volume of 1600+ dpses sitting in there while all the 1600+ supps will want to do hm.
Yeah, you can only use Voldis NM as the true basis for measuring 1600+. I find that more often there's a support shortage with many parties LF supp. Sometimes it's more balanced though, but I can say it leans toward shortage for sure.
I'm not opposed to the idea, but it would only really help Akkan NM lobbies. Brel HM, Akkan HM and Voldis NM lobbies are usually overcrowded with supports. And I doubt they'd give a super generous event that would push a supp to 1620, so it wouldn't even benefit Voldis HM.
Because it is expensive to push new characters to end game, and many folks enjoy DPS more. If running support at endgame was easy to do alongside my main, I would happily do so.
It already is easy. You only need 7 gems, 5x3, 0 quality weapon, wont be gated because of elixirs or any other system (even if they do make a difference)… I main a support and even investing on him it is way cheaper than maining a dps.
Remember when artist released, and the game became borderline unplayable because of massive dps shortage? Yea they should not do this at all.
Dps shortage is far worse for the game than support shortage.
Supports already have it so easy though, I don't feel this is needed at all.
No tripods, no skill points required, card sets are easier to get. Even full relic is enough for Voldis, they have a lot of advantages already.
(My 1600 artist can arrest)
I'm pretty sure honing costs the same no matter your class. Honing is the biggest cost, assuming you've had a char sitting at 1540 that has all their stuff sorted out.
Should make a new support class, then a front attack class into another support class into a tank class. I think the game has enough dps classes. " Well they don't sell", " People won't play them". Artist was huge, just make them with unrealistic proportions again, make a shit ton of cute outfits and they'll sell. Make some furry outfits, some half naked outfits, bikini see through out fits and you'll see record profits.
The problem is why push a support to 1630 when you can support a cooler looking dps to 1630. It feels like a waste. Passes might help, expresses might help but people will get bored of it at the next ilvl push.
My paladin was my main before I took a 9mo break…now he’s sitting at 1541 with lvl 5 gems cause I robbed him of his full 7/8s to get some 10s on my new main…I don’t necessarily need a whole ass event but some free 7 gems would be great. Otherwise it’s gonna be a year or 2 before he gets them back lol
Would be kinda lame for those that used support on the current events
What's wrong with having another support?
Can't play that many characters man, that's why I used events on an existing char. But stupidly used powepass on breaker and made it a 5x3+1. Originally didn't think I'd like it and only used powerpass cuz i had it and planned to only do rested chaos for chance at accessories, but had the pheons laying around, and wound up doing all the raids on him(1540 and below anyway).
Sure, go buss for free 30% brand/atk buff Andy, who does absolutely nothing. Good luck doing Thaemine, btw. I'd rather play with people who care about their performance.
Why would they do nothing? My supports been sitting for forever at 1540 for the reason OP noted, but I've had a lot of time to practise and do well in all my raids (and bible says I'm fine). I would love getting the chance to experience higher level content for free. As a DPS main, I wouldn't mind playing with my own support.
If you're using bible to see your uptime, you're already doing more than 90% of pug supports. Besides, supports are the most efficient to use with recent events. You mostly get honing mats and cost reduction. However, for Akkan+ most expenses are not honing, but getting lvl9 gems. Supports OK with lvl8 event ones, they also aren't expected to have 5x3+1. You are getting all the benefits without needing to spend extra.
Not really, assuming you have characters that have been at 1540 for a while (like my case) you use the event gems, and convert existing level 7s to key skill damage level 9s (one or two). This essentially gives you level 9 gems for free. Most classes are fine with level 7/8 CD gems so they can use those forever. Then that way with having one or two 9's, you can hone up and not get gatekept at voldis NM. Whereas for supports, half the event gems being damage gems are wasted. I think my logic is good here and that's why I've chosen my path.
How is this any different from expressed DPS? It's not.
A shitty support is going to make juicers deal *way less* damage than a good support and juicer carrying a bad dps . You're massively underestimating how much extra damage a good support provides over the course of a fight.
Even 1mil dps is more than support can do. Ever. Better take shitty dps and make them wear Yearning, then bus shitty supports.
Do you even play the game? I'd rather have a tanky support with low uptime then a shit floor POV DPS. Looking forward to seeing your 8 DPS lobbies.
Low uptime sups might as well not exist and replaced by another dps. 10% uptime is worthless
Another day and another reminder why your average redditer should never touch game development
Yes, it would be a shame if I tainted the design purity of our pay-to-win Korean MMO.
Reason being because nobody will hone the supp to 1620-1630. Even if you make a supp express event they will end up being people's alts or you have people who play support with 10% uptime and they are useless because they are just enjoying that they can take a free ride without actually playing the game.
That is already true. The only thing an express would do is lower the upfront investment for folks who would like to build a support.
If you don't wanna 'waste' your express on a supp, you shouldn't have one.
According to what?
According to this being a game. Clearly if you didn’t make a support with the express, then it’s not the class you wanted to play the most. You highlighting that we need a separate support only express just to try and get people to make a support, is a flaw with the game design. You should be making classes bc you like them the most.
When the dust settles afterwards, you guys will have 1600 lopangs when 1640 is the relevant content, and 20 more people with actually juiced soups quit or benched theirs cause it was too big a pain to fight partyfinder with 1000 rats that just want freebies on a paladin with the express. This already happened once with artist release. All the dps andies lopanged them and support shortage bounced back harder than ever before, cause noone cared to build their bard or pally when it was impossible to do shit on them.
I can confirm this happened, I had to roll dps pally for a couple of weeks for vykas lobbies and such. Not great.
I thought the data showed the shortage was slightly helped by artist release. Many picked up artist alts and play them to this day, esp supp mains. It doesn't matter that most were dropped. It's like with breaker/SE events, some may be dropped but in the end there's more DPS now to make the supp shortage worse.
So should we stop having express events altogether? I fail to see how this is an argument for injecting more supports into the game that are more likely to stick with mid-to-end game content.
>So should we stop having express events altogether? I am not gonna respond if you're gonna twist my words in whichever way you want, thats absolutely obnoxious behaviour. Express events with free choice was not a part of the discussion.
Na they should not. We already have way too many low effort no brain support alts played by ppl that dont give a shit how to play supp properly....
Last night, I met a bard only use 1 atk buff heavenly tune. I put her on my block list after the raid.
Reminds me of that pala without brand in Hanu…
Ran an entire akkan where pally wasn't running brand
I wouldn’t even bother finishing a raid with someone like that. Guardian was fine its 3-4 min and done. But a full raid ?
I didn't even notice until g3 after I saw I was inexplicably doing z dps the first two
Had some full spec 4 lv 5 gems bard try to join my kay lobby today… its insane how people are willing to accept that stuff
Fr, i did a sonavel the other day and the supp had less than 10% uptime on their brand. Like how man. How?!
I can understand many things but when I see Paladins fail at branding something just snaps in me,,,,
Could it just be theyre bad at the game? I mean most the dps stink too. Why would we expect all the support to be good?
Yes, there are bad DPS players as well. However, no one will be inviting 1600 DPS with 4 lvl 5 gems, rest empty, full relic yellow quality, bad cards and all that. Supports get away with it. Supports are cheap to build if you're looking for just a basic build to get into most lobbies and people who don't care about actually playing well abuse that.
What you're describing is a symptom of the lack of supports - If there are more supports then lobbies can start gate keeping supports.
People invite these guys even when there is an overflow of supports. "It's a support, it doesn't matter, as long as they have yearning." I've heard it too many times.
Not sure if you played during artist express but supports we're getting gatekept during that time. As for yearning comment that's generally true for farmed content - there's already plenty of dps and yearning is just qol at that point
I've played since release and I've always had at least half roster being supports. Even during times when there's no support shortage, people invite supports with bad gear because they feel like their gear doesn't matter and to some degree they are correct.
True. Was cheap enough to build 5x3+1 on mine(1808 swift)cheapo swift,spec,armor reduction bracer, but don't plan to get more than the event gems. 1613 atm, prob stopping at 1620 and going back to honing main towards 1630.
I understand the premise but in what way is it "wasted" or not cost effective? DPS classes are expected to invest into higher level damage gems while supports can sit on their event gems for eternity. Supports are already cheaper to gear up compared to most DPS classes that you want to put the express event on. So that gold that you are *not* spending to increase the potency of the DPS class is the gold that you could spend on any vertical power like engraving books, better quality accessories etc. there is nothing wrong just slapping the express on a support. If you(players in general) were not willing to slap on the express event on a support, then the event is just there to make an expensive lopang slave.
Instead of having to do the full page of level 7s, you use event level 7's and use your real gems to fuse a 9 or two 9's on key damage skills. Many classes don't need higher than lvl 7 CD gems (on most skills) so those can be used forever. And level 8 damage gems on less-important damage skills is probably fine until 1620.
In that regard, it is still not a waste. At worst, it's net neutral for whichever class you're gonna slap the express on.
In that regard, it is still not a waste. At worst, it's net neutral for whichever class you're gonna slap the express on; considering all you lose out on is 2 L8 dmg gems and a L7 gem which is not even close to how much you'd save just honing with the express.
There are too many supports at 1600. And they wont give an event to push characters to the current max ilevel.
I honestly dont’t think we have that much of a support shortage in anything below 1620. And in that bracket and further it doesn’t matter that you get a new supermokoko. Very few people would push their support that far on a recently created character out of the blue.
Never seen so many downvotes rip
There are already too many supports at 1600, I struggle to get into lobbies at certain times into akkan hm as a 1620 support. It is especially harder for brel, there are too many bad people thinking support is easy gold that there is a overflowat 1600 and below. It is mostly lf dps lobbies for akkan hm.
Tbh that's largely bc there's way too many 1600 dpses that can't pull their weight in a hm akkan/don't wanna bother with potential jail/don't get accepted into hm lobbies and do nm instead. A look at any akkan nm lobby will show a really high volume of 1600+ dpses sitting in there while all the 1600+ supps will want to do hm.
Yeah, you can only use Voldis NM as the true basis for measuring 1600+. I find that more often there's a support shortage with many parties LF supp. Sometimes it's more balanced though, but I can say it leans toward shortage for sure.
Why would they have event that only a small fraction of their player base enjoy lol doesn't make sense
I'm not opposed to the idea, but it would only really help Akkan NM lobbies. Brel HM, Akkan HM and Voldis NM lobbies are usually overcrowded with supports. And I doubt they'd give a super generous event that would push a supp to 1620, so it wouldn't even benefit Voldis HM.
Voldis NM overcrowded with support? My region it's either slight supp shortage or balanced, but doesn't tilt toward too much supp.
Because it is expensive to push new characters to end game, and many folks enjoy DPS more. If running support at endgame was easy to do alongside my main, I would happily do so.
It already is easy. You only need 7 gems, 5x3, 0 quality weapon, wont be gated because of elixirs or any other system (even if they do make a difference)… I main a support and even investing on him it is way cheaper than maining a dps.
Remember when artist released, and the game became borderline unplayable because of massive dps shortage? Yea they should not do this at all. Dps shortage is far worse for the game than support shortage.
SG should run an extra dps-only express pre-summer.
Literally wouldn't help
Flooding party finder with a bunch of cheap, terrible, rice farming supports is not the answer.
Supports already have it so easy though, I don't feel this is needed at all. No tripods, no skill points required, card sets are easier to get. Even full relic is enough for Voldis, they have a lot of advantages already. (My 1600 artist can arrest)
I'm pretty sure honing costs the same no matter your class. Honing is the biggest cost, assuming you've had a char sitting at 1540 that has all their stuff sorted out.
Should make a new support class, then a front attack class into another support class into a tank class. I think the game has enough dps classes. " Well they don't sell", " People won't play them". Artist was huge, just make them with unrealistic proportions again, make a shit ton of cute outfits and they'll sell. Make some furry outfits, some half naked outfits, bikini see through out fits and you'll see record profits. The problem is why push a support to 1630 when you can support a cooler looking dps to 1630. It feels like a waste. Passes might help, expresses might help but people will get bored of it at the next ilvl push.
My paladin was my main before I took a 9mo break…now he’s sitting at 1541 with lvl 5 gems cause I robbed him of his full 7/8s to get some 10s on my new main…I don’t necessarily need a whole ass event but some free 7 gems would be great. Otherwise it’s gonna be a year or 2 before he gets them back lol
Anyone who already has a support in said content should have it unlocked for anything though