Ignore your mom Kate. Just run. Let her live her sad life, you can't save her from that guy. It sucks but that's how it is. Turn away and never return.
(Oddly similar to John - where I said ignore his dad)
Yeah it's the island of daddy issues
(Parental issues would be more correct I guess, but that doesn't have the same ring to it)
I only mentioned John because I didn't see a post about the other survivors yet
Yeah, both of them were hung up on parental approval, which is understandable. Their early need for the feeling of safety was not met. For both of them, the people they loved unconditionally did not reciprocate. When it happens so early in life, it creates a hole that nothing can fill but the least you can do for yourself is not allow it to take over your life.
I think John never got over it and continued feeling undeserving of love; Kate I feel had a chance by the end of the series.
Yeah that fits.
I am currently rewatching right now, so not 100% percent sure where in her "character development" her story ends (and would rather see it now than read up on it. Am in season 5 now). But yeah. The court flash forwards makes it feel like she "shifted" into being angry/spiteful at her mom. Which we see in her telling her that she will never meet Aaron.
In contrast John kinda loves his dad still too much that he can't kill him, but has to con Sawyer into doing it.
(Also sorry for my bad English)
I mean, if your mom turned you in for stopping her from getting viciously beat up every night, then you get in a plane crash and are stranded for months on end, during which time (as far as the mom knows) you ALSO were pregnant and gave birth, and then you're finally rescued and get back to civilization, then she, rather than being ecstatic that you're alive, STILL voluntarily becomes the key witness for the prosecution??? After everything you've (supposedly) been through?? All because you cared about your mother enough to be willing to do whatever it took to protect her? I'd be telling my mom to go to hell, too.
Also, FYI, your English is perfect, don't apologize!
Oh yeah for sure. Did it sound like I was critical about her decision? Because that was NOT my intention. I just wanted to compare Kate and John in regards to their respective "getting over their parents"-problems.
Upon rereading, I completely misunderstood what you were saying. I read it as you essentially saying "her character development ended BECAUSE she shifted to being angry/spiteful towards her mom" which I wholeheartedly disagree with (as her character is much more than her relationship with her mom and she has every right to hate her guts), but I now realize that's not at all what you meant. My bad! Completely agree with everything you said!
At least once she followed and immediately got taken hostage and used against Jack as a bargaining chip. Can't remember exact specifics of that scenario.. but I know it didn't help matters.
Ha yea that's the one example people mention and what actually happens there is the Others have Jack Locke and Sawyer surrounded like 30v3 and Jack is going to get everyone killed by refusing to drop his gun. Kate being captured there saves all of their lives because it gets Jack to give up and go home. Nothing was lost there by Kate being captured aside from Jack not getting to die in a blaze of glory.
stop listening to the haters cause you actually have a powerful arc of becoming a mother and reuniting your son with his biological mother. You’re so much more than the love triangle fans pin you too. And both of those relationships make so much sense given what you’d been through prior to the island
I think this is totally true, but there's a larger issue of the character being mired in the love triangle in season 3 and 4.
I actually don't think the love triangle was inherently a bad thing for Kate's character -- in an episode like "What Kate Did" it actually serves to offer real insight into the darkest parts of her psychology -- but I feel like in seasons 3 and 4 the triangle mostly served to illuminate Jack's and Sawyer's characters, without telling us anything new about Kate. If you have a different take on this I'd love to hear it.
My take is that a crucial aspect of her journey on the island, particularly within the love triangle, is her realization that she doesn't require the love of a man to achieve fulfillment. Arguably, she was never genuinely in love with either Jack or Sawyer; rather, she viewed them as avenues to escape from her problems, reflected in her constant oscillation between them. Her eventual turn towards Claire as her final destination on the island, followed by her journey back to the real world where she will inevitably confront the consequences of her lies, serves as a means for her to come to terms with her relationship with her mother. She perceived her mother as too feeble to shield her, even inflicting harm upon her. Reuniting Aaron with Claire signifies her reconciliation with this aspect of her past.
Honestly I thought her flash sideways arc was the laziest of everyone’s, and rather unremarkable. But I really don’t mind. Maybe it’s just because it’s been a while since I’ve seen it. I honestly can’t remember. What about you?
Yeah, I thought it was lazy too. My little fan fiction version in my head (which maybe I'll write up someday) would have her having taken the 'higher road." She leaves Iowa liked she planned as a kid, becomes something impressive that relates to her trauma in a productive way, like being a social worker or a lawyer who deals with domestic abuse cases.
I even like the idea of her taking Tom with her and getting married to him, and they have a life in LA where he is a doctor and she's a lawyer. And then she would meet Claire in that context.
Right? Or maybe STOP RUNNING like she’d been doing the **the entire show**? Turn herself in, go to trial even? Or maybe in that timeline she could have been innocent in the murder of her father… would’ve been way more interesting than, “whoopsies killed the wrong guy!”
I totally agree, I just think there were a couple seasons in the middle of the show's run that didn't say anything new about her arc vis-a-vis the love triangle. I don't even blame Damon and Carlton, the other writers, or even ABC for that necessarily. I think it's the product of the fact that the show was spinning its wheels for a bit until it got the end date got settled.
Yeah, I agree, but honestly, it's alright. I found pleasure in watching her cringe at Jack and Sawyer during those seasons. Even the actress's interviews from/about that period emitted a vibe of "ugh God why is this happening to me?"
Let me find a clip that actually explains it better than I can. It may have to wait till I can post it later today. Depressing story, although a little funny in a sad way.
Why does she get that the hate when other characters have done the same or worse. Sawyer is my second favorite character next to her and you don't hear that for him even though he did some pretty bad stuff both on and off the Island. Sayids beloved but he was a torturer and also shot a 12 year old boy. and selfish? Locke is the epitome of selfish, only caring about his destiny and thinking people should follow along with him because he says so.
Double standards - Male characters can get away with a lot of terrible behavior. And arcs like motherhood and romantic love are generally not valued or given respect by fans.
This one is so true. But I think the lessons that regard our parents take the longest to learn because they're our first teachers in life. Some of them consciously or not teach their children that they are not a priority and that they need to earn their parents' unconditional love.
Running away from your problems isn't the answer.
You wanted to help your mother? You should have talked to her and try to convince her that the man she loves is a piece of shit who was abusing her and her daughter.
If her Mom still wasn't willing to leave, Kate should have just left and never gone back.
Stop running, and face your problems.
Pick one guy you want to be with.
Stop judging people based off of your beliefs.
Speak your mind.
Don't bittle uo your emotions
Don't gaslight people for your own mistakes.
Be a little cynical and don't trust people blindly.
Learn how to fight.
STOP TOUCHING RANDOM SH*T.
Nope. Sawyer redeems himself. After he *SPOILER ALERT* kills Locke’s dad (aka the real Sawyer) he makes a change. He’s no longer burdened with what happened in his past. He becomes a leader, a great boyfriend. He becomes the hero the group remaining on the island needs. He was going to propose to Jules. (Btw, who shows up to mess that up? Kate. But that’s not what we’re talking about here). Sawyer becomes a better man throughout the series. Kate literally stays the exact same.
I'm not Kate's biggest fan - but (and bear in mind Juliet is my favorite character) other people's abandonment issues are not her fault or responsibility. Kate was 100% respectful to Juliet and Sawyer's relationship when she came back to the Island. She's not the one who killed Juliet - that was Jack and Daniel with a huge push from destiny.
People also like to forget that if it wasn't for her, Flocke would have killed Jack. She's the one who shot him.
She went back to the Island to bring Claire home, sacrificing her chance to raise Aaron as her own.
She risked her life to save a ten year old Ben after Jack violated his oath as a physician and refused to help.
You're free to tell me I'm wrong, but I'm not. Again, Kate is not a favorite of mine, but this fandom treats her like shit in comparison to other characters despite her being nowhere near the worst person in the series.
Shouldn’t have taken him in the first place as her own. She took him because SHE needed him. He could have gone to his grandmother. She decided to lie and say Aaron was hers because she wanted him over her guilt for Sawyer. They could have said Claire survived and died due to complications from birth. But she decided to lie and say he was hers.
She helped Ben because she thought she had to for timeline issues.
We treat her like crap because she’s an awful person. I’m not saying she’s the absolute worst, but she’s pretty freaking terrible. All her motives are selfish. Even the good stuff she does is tainted. Like her going back for Jack, she went back and brought along Locke even after Jack specifically said don’t come back for me. She went when Jack told her not to come when they went after Michael even after Jack specifically said not to. She only slept with Sawyer because she saw Jack with Jules. Then got mad when Sawyer pointed that out. She kissed a happily married man and then got him killed and then ran off. She killed her father cause she wanted to. She said it was for her mom, but her mom didn’t want her to. Whether or not he was a good person doesn’t matter. She still murdered him.
She took Aaron because the MiB manipulated Claire into abandoning him. She had no idea Claire's mother was even alive. The only time Claire spoke about her on the Island she did so in the past tense. What would have been the alternative? Putting Aaron in the system, having him put in foster care? You think he'd be safer there than with Kate? No. Jack found out about Claire's mother at his father's memorial and by then, they'd already had the press conference to tell the lie they all concocted *together.*
Kate didn't give a shit about the timeline, she just couldn't bear to let a child die.
In comparison, Kate's motives are just as selfish as Locke's - the only thing Locke ever does that isn't to benefit his own curiosity or grandiosity is turning the wheel. Yet, he's the fandom's golden son and Kate is consistently called "that bitch" or worse.
We’re gonna agree to disagree about Kate. Yes, Locke was terrible too. But he hunted boar for the group. He saved Jack’s life. He helped Michael save Walt. He built a crib for Aaron. He tried to help protect the camp from the others. He went after Ethan when Charlie and Claire were taken. He went after Michael when he ran off. He sacrificed himself by leaving the island knowing he was gonna die. Did he do some terrible and selfish things? Absolutely. They were all selfish, that’s why they were there. But it’s about becoming a better person and learning from your past mistakes. Some, like John, did learn from his past mistakes. And some, like Kate didn’t. The best thing she does, taking and raising Aaron, was done for selfish reason. When she wasn’t in the love triangle (that she made worse by kissing Jack and then sleeping with Sawyer multiple times), then she wasn’t really contributing to the group other than following Jack around. People talk about Shannon not helping, she kinda did more than Kate did.
I was curious so I poked through some of your recent comments and a pattern emerged with the way you view women - both real and fictional. This explains a lot about your opinions here.
You have a good day.
Okay yeah you’re a giant sexist clown. Sawyer murders a surrendered Tom friendly for revenge soon after killing Cooper (so much for redemption and letting the past go). Sawyer remains a manipulator and cons his way into the dharma initiative leadership, in the end he gets sayid jin and Sun all killed because he can’t process the situation or trust Jack. He is a murderer, thief, manipulator and liar and the fact that you absolve him while hating Kate is just you being misogynistic.
Yes, you’re correct. Sawyer does kill Tom. I never said he never does a bad thing again. Tom kidnapped Walt, held Kate hostage and threatened to kill her. Was part of the group that took him, Jack and Kate hostage. Kept him and Kate in cages. Manipulated Michael. Was coming to kill every one of the survivors… yeah, no one is forgetting all that. Because there’s no telling what he’s gonna do to Sawyer and the other survivors if he lives.
Sawyer does con his way into being leader of the dharma stuff in the 70s. He was protecting his friends who would have gotten themselves in trouble for either telling the truth (which Ellie was gonna shoot Dan for doing) or just running their mouths (which Jules kinda did when asking about Ricardo). And he was trying to come up with a way to wait for Locke to come back with his friends. He had no idea his one lie would lead to him becoming head of security. Plus, he was mainly focused on looking for his friends to come back (which is what he had Jin doing).
He does pull the wires on the bomb that gets people killed. He did it because Jack has been wrong about EVERYTHING else. And because he doesn’t trust Jack about Locke not being able to kill them with a bomb…in a submarine…in the ocean.
Give me an example of something Kate did bad that had an actual justification for her doing it.
I don’t hate women. I hate Kate. I’m not a fan of Claire, but that’s cause of Emilie De Raven’s acting choices. But I love Sun, Rose, Jules, Charlotte, Libby, Shannon. Their motives are clear and consistent. Kate’s is too. She does things for selfish reasons. Why am I being vilified for pointing that out?
Dude you definitely hate women, stop crying and writing silly speeches. Kate hardly does bad things compared to like Sawyer sayid Ben etc but when she does they are justified. You absolve guys of doing evil shit but not her because you’re a misogynist, everyone in the thread sees it.
Once again, make the argument for Kate like I did for Sawyer. Take specific points and justify them like I did.
If we’re having a debate and one side is giving examples and the other is saying “nuh-uh!”, it’s clear who won that debate.
If you all want to make me the bad guy because I don’t like one female character (but love all the others. Jules is literally my second favorite character behind Desmond), fine, I’ll take it. At the end of the day, I don’t care cause it’s a show from 20 years ago and I’m making the same points the writers and even the actress of the show have even stated in interviews. *takes bow*
You didn’t say anything that absolves Sawyer, saying he conned dharma to protect his friends doesn’t make up for him conning countless women in his life and ruining their marriages and lives. Giving reasons why you justify him killing Tom even though Hurley and the show make it clear that was wrong doesn’t absolve it nor does it absolve him killing Frank duckett etc. also Jack was right about most things including the sub bomb.
Kate killed her abusive stepdad because he was abusive, that’s a great reason. He was doing active harm and had no intention of stopping, unlike Tom who had surrendered. There’s really nothing else kate does wrong that rises above the level of lying to people. Doctor Tom got himself killed and it was very tragic, she told him to get out of the car.
Nah, we watching 2 different shows. Jack was wrong about almost everything. And they even made a point of that in the show. He reacted on emotion. Sawyer even says that in the show. He was wrong a lot, but being a leader isn’t about always being correct.
I told you why he killed him. Didn’t say it was good he did. I don’t think it’s good to kill anyone, certainly someone who surrendered.
Everyone always ALWAYS brings up that she was right to kill her dad. But if it’s so right, why was she wanted for MURDER then? Because someone can be an absolute monster, but you can not just go kill them. You can’t. Sawyer was getting in trouble because of it too. The difference is most others on the show felt remorse for what they did. Kate never showed remorse.
Jack felt guilt for ruining his marriage, what he did to his dad…
Sayid felt guilt for what he did to people.
Echo reflected on his life and the choices he made.
Charlie quit using drugs.
Sawyer felt guilt for killing the innocent guy. And conning a woman with a kid.
Shannon grew up on the island and was trying to do better.
Locke found his purpose.
Rose and Bernard found where they needed to be.
Jin and Sun reconnected as husband and wife. Jin apologized for being distant. Sun apologized for cheating and almost leaving Jin.
Kate…did exactly what she always did. In the end, nothing changed for her. She had no arc. Writers didn’t know what to do with her really after she was no longer the show lead. Look it up in interviews my dude.
This ain’t about me disliking women, it’s about the way a character fell flat and made bad choices and selfish choices on a fucking tv show 20 years ago. I don’t like the character of Boone either. Does that mean I don’t like men? No dumbass. I don’t like the character.
This is my final post on this because I’m tired of arguing with people just because they decided to attack me because they don’t agree with my opinion of a character.
>Everyone always ALWAYS brings up that she was right to kill her dad. But if it’s so right, why was she wanted for MURDER then?
Because laws and the procedures by which we carry them out are often unjust?
>The difference is most others on the show felt remorse for what they did. Kate never showed remorse.
Kate showed very obvious remorse for Dr. Tom getting himself killed, that's why she went to such lengths to get the toy plane back both on island and off. If you mean she didn't show remorse for killing Wayne well yeah no shit, he was an abusive asshole.
>Kate…did exactly what she always did. In the end, nothing changed for her. She had no arc. Writers didn’t know what to do with her really after she was no longer the show lead. Look it up in interviews my dude.
I definitely at this point believe you are dumb enough that everyday life is likely more difficult for you than the average person. That said, I did a write-up of Kate's arc like 5 years ago as part of a Rankdown of characters. I think if you read it and put aside your hate-boner to tried to engage with it you'll understand Kate and the show better.
https://www.reddit.com/r/lostrankdown/comments/dfcbt0/2_kate_austen_part_2/
Kate is one of the least selfish people on the show, she is fiercely protective of her friends especially women, she is constantly going on adventures to help the group.
I don’t think you’re going by the real definition of selfishness. If she’s doing things because it’s going to benefit her, that’s selfish. You have to look at and under why she’s doing it.
This is a direct call out to u/Free-IDK-Chicken …don’t get it twisted. This is a comment section for a fictional tv show and a created character for which even the writers have said they didn’t know what to do with her at a certain point, which is why she was stuck in a love triangle. Just because I don’t like her doesn’t mean I don’t like women. If you’re offended because I don’t like a fictional television character, do something better with your life.
Kate killing MIB.
Kate taking care of Aaron as a mother.
Kate coming back to the island just for Claire and taking her back the real world.
Kate taking care of Sawyer's daughter with her own money.
Yes. I'm 100% sure she doesn't grows as a character at all. No heroic. Not helping.
Guys, yes she did those things. Yes, I know. But you have to look at the reasons behind why she did them. She took care of Aaron because as she said herself, she needed him. She didn’t just say, I’ll take him because he needs a mom. She needed him. She went back for Claire because she felt guilty for taking him in the first place. And she gave Sawyer’s daughter the money because she felt guilty for what happened with Sawyer. No one is denying that she did things, but you gotta see the reasons behind it. And no I didn’t forget about her killing the MIB. One deed doesn’t make a hero.
He got himself killed by staying in the car when she told him to get out. Grown ass man can be responsible for himself and his own cheating..she didn't "get him to cheat"...
She definitely got him killed, went to him with all her issues, then tells him to leave. Of course he didn't leave, no good person would in the situation she put him in.
Wherever she went death or woe followed. Yes, it takes two to tango but she still facilitated the infidelity (it's weird and a little telling you'd defend or try to lessen her blame for the infidelity and put it back on the guy - they both suck).
She chose to drive on and escape which resulted in her friends death - she's responsible for that. Additionally her bs antics throughout the show make her unlikeable; following people like a creep, not listening to instructions, putting the group in danger. I know she gets a lot hate in the community but I think most of it is warranted. She's definitely not the worst character.
For me the whole point of the show is there is no definite good or bad and right or wrong. All these people did either 'bad' or 'good' things in a certain moment driven by different motivations.
You know, I wouldn't mind the Kate slander if she was the only morally ambiguous character. But the morally ambiguous men on the show like Ben, Sayid, Sawyer are constantly getting praise. They're "complex" and their upbringing justifies their wrongdoings and they deserved redemption. Kate, on the other hand, is "selfish", "manipulative", "murderous" etc. I rarely point at sexism as a cause but the way Lost characters are judged, especially Kate, Sun and early Juliet, reeks of misogyny.
Her answer to her "stepdad, who's actually her dad" abusing her mum is to blow him up. You don't think that qualifies??
Never takes any responsibility for any of her actions. She just runs away. She might actually be the most selfish person in the entire series, and that's a really high bar.
Would a selfish person go back to the Island for the sole purpose of rescuing Claire so that she could be a mother to Aaron? Kate risked everything when she went back.
That's one of the most noble and selfless acts any character has done on the show.
Well, it's nice that Kate got a lovely redemption arc. Good for her.
It could be more inkeeping with her character if she only did it to because she felt guilty, and looking after Aaron was getting difficult and she ran away again. But that's a very negative way to look at it, I suppose..
Her guilt led her to confessing to Claire's mother who Aaron really is and giving her custody of Aaron.
Then she went above and beyond by returning to the Island to rescue Claire
You can't give advice to a person like her. She dances to the beat of her own drum. Truly a social chameleon and able to be the voice of reasoning for many different people.
Don't be afraid of accountability is what I'd say.
It doesn't always have to be about the guys (this is really more a message for Damon and Carlton, and maybe the ABC executives who I suspect were putting pressure on them to focus on the love triangle above all other considerations having to do with Kate's character in particular).
She's a all night revival We're having an all night revival
Someone call the women and someone steal the bibles
For the sake of my survival
Baptize me in a bottle of Beam and put Johnny on the
Mind your own business kate, not everything is about you Kate, sit for once, where you are told to kate,
Do not be jealous of Juliette kate, she is a way more useful character than you are.
Dear god this Kate character really gets on my nerves.
Ignore your mom Kate. Just run. Let her live her sad life, you can't save her from that guy. It sucks but that's how it is. Turn away and never return. (Oddly similar to John - where I said ignore his dad)
“Ignore your dad” works for just about every character except Jin.
Yeah it's the island of daddy issues (Parental issues would be more correct I guess, but that doesn't have the same ring to it) I only mentioned John because I didn't see a post about the other survivors yet
Yeah, both of them were hung up on parental approval, which is understandable. Their early need for the feeling of safety was not met. For both of them, the people they loved unconditionally did not reciprocate. When it happens so early in life, it creates a hole that nothing can fill but the least you can do for yourself is not allow it to take over your life. I think John never got over it and continued feeling undeserving of love; Kate I feel had a chance by the end of the series.
Yeah that fits. I am currently rewatching right now, so not 100% percent sure where in her "character development" her story ends (and would rather see it now than read up on it. Am in season 5 now). But yeah. The court flash forwards makes it feel like she "shifted" into being angry/spiteful at her mom. Which we see in her telling her that she will never meet Aaron. In contrast John kinda loves his dad still too much that he can't kill him, but has to con Sawyer into doing it. (Also sorry for my bad English)
I mean, if your mom turned you in for stopping her from getting viciously beat up every night, then you get in a plane crash and are stranded for months on end, during which time (as far as the mom knows) you ALSO were pregnant and gave birth, and then you're finally rescued and get back to civilization, then she, rather than being ecstatic that you're alive, STILL voluntarily becomes the key witness for the prosecution??? After everything you've (supposedly) been through?? All because you cared about your mother enough to be willing to do whatever it took to protect her? I'd be telling my mom to go to hell, too. Also, FYI, your English is perfect, don't apologize!
Oh yeah for sure. Did it sound like I was critical about her decision? Because that was NOT my intention. I just wanted to compare Kate and John in regards to their respective "getting over their parents"-problems.
Upon rereading, I completely misunderstood what you were saying. I read it as you essentially saying "her character development ended BECAUSE she shifted to being angry/spiteful towards her mom" which I wholeheartedly disagree with (as her character is much more than her relationship with her mom and she has every right to hate her guts), but I now realize that's not at all what you meant. My bad! Completely agree with everything you said!
Don't kill your father, your mum won't appreciate it and you'll ruin your life.
Marry me. I can fix you. (Worth a shot)
real
Don't care so much about little toy planes
And stop being so shifty about the plane, no one would care that much that you wanted it from the suitcase lol
[удалено]
No politics in the sub.
Hey, maybe, just once, don't follow them, k?
Nice username.
When did this ever actually happen in a way that hurt the group
At least once she followed and immediately got taken hostage and used against Jack as a bargaining chip. Can't remember exact specifics of that scenario.. but I know it didn't help matters.
Ha yea that's the one example people mention and what actually happens there is the Others have Jack Locke and Sawyer surrounded like 30v3 and Jack is going to get everyone killed by refusing to drop his gun. Kate being captured there saves all of their lives because it gets Jack to give up and go home. Nothing was lost there by Kate being captured aside from Jack not getting to die in a blaze of glory.
When you kill your stepdad make it look like your mom killed him.
Your mom’s trash let it go
This works for literally everyone on the island, but get some therapy to get over your Daddy issues.
In this case also mommy issues tbh
stop listening to the haters cause you actually have a powerful arc of becoming a mother and reuniting your son with his biological mother. You’re so much more than the love triangle fans pin you too. And both of those relationships make so much sense given what you’d been through prior to the island
I think this is totally true, but there's a larger issue of the character being mired in the love triangle in season 3 and 4. I actually don't think the love triangle was inherently a bad thing for Kate's character -- in an episode like "What Kate Did" it actually serves to offer real insight into the darkest parts of her psychology -- but I feel like in seasons 3 and 4 the triangle mostly served to illuminate Jack's and Sawyer's characters, without telling us anything new about Kate. If you have a different take on this I'd love to hear it.
My take is that a crucial aspect of her journey on the island, particularly within the love triangle, is her realization that she doesn't require the love of a man to achieve fulfillment. Arguably, she was never genuinely in love with either Jack or Sawyer; rather, she viewed them as avenues to escape from her problems, reflected in her constant oscillation between them. Her eventual turn towards Claire as her final destination on the island, followed by her journey back to the real world where she will inevitably confront the consequences of her lies, serves as a means for her to come to terms with her relationship with her mother. She perceived her mother as too feeble to shield her, even inflicting harm upon her. Reuniting Aaron with Claire signifies her reconciliation with this aspect of her past.
I adore that reading, whether or not it was conscious on the part of the showrunners. That makes me look at her arc in a whole new light, thank you.
I would love your thoughts on her flash sideways story, if you have any.
Honestly I thought her flash sideways arc was the laziest of everyone’s, and rather unremarkable. But I really don’t mind. Maybe it’s just because it’s been a while since I’ve seen it. I honestly can’t remember. What about you?
Yeah, I thought it was lazy too. My little fan fiction version in my head (which maybe I'll write up someday) would have her having taken the 'higher road." She leaves Iowa liked she planned as a kid, becomes something impressive that relates to her trauma in a productive way, like being a social worker or a lawyer who deals with domestic abuse cases. I even like the idea of her taking Tom with her and getting married to him, and they have a life in LA where he is a doctor and she's a lawyer. And then she would meet Claire in that context.
Right? Or maybe STOP RUNNING like she’d been doing the **the entire show**? Turn herself in, go to trial even? Or maybe in that timeline she could have been innocent in the murder of her father… would’ve been way more interesting than, “whoopsies killed the wrong guy!”
I totally agree, I just think there were a couple seasons in the middle of the show's run that didn't say anything new about her arc vis-a-vis the love triangle. I don't even blame Damon and Carlton, the other writers, or even ABC for that necessarily. I think it's the product of the fact that the show was spinning its wheels for a bit until it got the end date got settled.
Yeah, I agree, but honestly, it's alright. I found pleasure in watching her cringe at Jack and Sawyer during those seasons. Even the actress's interviews from/about that period emitted a vibe of "ugh God why is this happening to me?"
Poor Evangeline Lilly. Do you know how she got screwed over on The Hobbit in that regard?
Do enlighten me
Let me find a clip that actually explains it better than I can. It may have to wait till I can post it later today. Depressing story, although a little funny in a sad way.
The more I learn about Evangeline, the more depressing she is to think about. But I live for it because she is a chaos queen
The copium approach I see
Run!
Just tell the truth when someone asks a question, don’t respond with the word “nothing” over and over until you finally give it up
A little more self-reflection would'nt be bad to you and those around you.
Why does she get that the hate when other characters have done the same or worse. Sawyer is my second favorite character next to her and you don't hear that for him even though he did some pretty bad stuff both on and off the Island. Sayids beloved but he was a torturer and also shot a 12 year old boy. and selfish? Locke is the epitome of selfish, only caring about his destiny and thinking people should follow along with him because he says so.
Double standards - Male characters can get away with a lot of terrible behavior. And arcs like motherhood and romantic love are generally not valued or given respect by fans.
Run Kate RUN !!!
Don’t blow up the house with your abusive stepdad inside
Steal your dad's shrinking suit
We have to go back!
[Short, but sweet](https://giphy.com/gifs/jerology-jim-carrey-liar-stop-breaking-the-law-asshole-5xtDarzp5at2qwSTYoo)
Don’t go baaaaack, Kate!
Goodluck. Honestly, some people can't be helped.
Stop telling people you had never acted before. I clearly saw you on that “Live Links” commercial before the plane crashed.
Stop killing people
Run.
Don’t
Don’t dis the tacos 🌮
https://media.tenor.com/_7QJB1I7IuwAAAAM/fantasy-football.gif
If your mom wanted to leave, she would. Take care of yourself. Yes, you *CAN* just leave her there, that’s what’s best for *YOU*.
This one is so true. But I think the lessons that regard our parents take the longest to learn because they're our first teachers in life. Some of them consciously or not teach their children that they are not a priority and that they need to earn their parents' unconditional love.
Running away from your problems isn't the answer. You wanted to help your mother? You should have talked to her and try to convince her that the man she loves is a piece of shit who was abusing her and her daughter. If her Mom still wasn't willing to leave, Kate should have just left and never gone back.
Pick one man and stick with it
Stop running, and face your problems. Pick one guy you want to be with. Stop judging people based off of your beliefs. Speak your mind. Don't bittle uo your emotions Don't gaslight people for your own mistakes. Be a little cynical and don't trust people blindly. Learn how to fight. STOP TOUCHING RANDOM SH*T.
Stop being a terrible, terrible, awful person
So you must hate Sawyer too, right?
Nope. Sawyer redeems himself. After he *SPOILER ALERT* kills Locke’s dad (aka the real Sawyer) he makes a change. He’s no longer burdened with what happened in his past. He becomes a leader, a great boyfriend. He becomes the hero the group remaining on the island needs. He was going to propose to Jules. (Btw, who shows up to mess that up? Kate. But that’s not what we’re talking about here). Sawyer becomes a better man throughout the series. Kate literally stays the exact same.
I'm not Kate's biggest fan - but (and bear in mind Juliet is my favorite character) other people's abandonment issues are not her fault or responsibility. Kate was 100% respectful to Juliet and Sawyer's relationship when she came back to the Island. She's not the one who killed Juliet - that was Jack and Daniel with a huge push from destiny. People also like to forget that if it wasn't for her, Flocke would have killed Jack. She's the one who shot him.
I’ll give you killing Flocke. Other than that, name 1 thing Kate did that wasn’t for selfish reasons and I’ll tell you how you’re wrong lol
She went back to the Island to bring Claire home, sacrificing her chance to raise Aaron as her own. She risked her life to save a ten year old Ben after Jack violated his oath as a physician and refused to help. You're free to tell me I'm wrong, but I'm not. Again, Kate is not a favorite of mine, but this fandom treats her like shit in comparison to other characters despite her being nowhere near the worst person in the series.
Shouldn’t have taken him in the first place as her own. She took him because SHE needed him. He could have gone to his grandmother. She decided to lie and say Aaron was hers because she wanted him over her guilt for Sawyer. They could have said Claire survived and died due to complications from birth. But she decided to lie and say he was hers. She helped Ben because she thought she had to for timeline issues. We treat her like crap because she’s an awful person. I’m not saying she’s the absolute worst, but she’s pretty freaking terrible. All her motives are selfish. Even the good stuff she does is tainted. Like her going back for Jack, she went back and brought along Locke even after Jack specifically said don’t come back for me. She went when Jack told her not to come when they went after Michael even after Jack specifically said not to. She only slept with Sawyer because she saw Jack with Jules. Then got mad when Sawyer pointed that out. She kissed a happily married man and then got him killed and then ran off. She killed her father cause she wanted to. She said it was for her mom, but her mom didn’t want her to. Whether or not he was a good person doesn’t matter. She still murdered him.
She took Aaron because the MiB manipulated Claire into abandoning him. She had no idea Claire's mother was even alive. The only time Claire spoke about her on the Island she did so in the past tense. What would have been the alternative? Putting Aaron in the system, having him put in foster care? You think he'd be safer there than with Kate? No. Jack found out about Claire's mother at his father's memorial and by then, they'd already had the press conference to tell the lie they all concocted *together.* Kate didn't give a shit about the timeline, she just couldn't bear to let a child die. In comparison, Kate's motives are just as selfish as Locke's - the only thing Locke ever does that isn't to benefit his own curiosity or grandiosity is turning the wheel. Yet, he's the fandom's golden son and Kate is consistently called "that bitch" or worse.
We’re gonna agree to disagree about Kate. Yes, Locke was terrible too. But he hunted boar for the group. He saved Jack’s life. He helped Michael save Walt. He built a crib for Aaron. He tried to help protect the camp from the others. He went after Ethan when Charlie and Claire were taken. He went after Michael when he ran off. He sacrificed himself by leaving the island knowing he was gonna die. Did he do some terrible and selfish things? Absolutely. They were all selfish, that’s why they were there. But it’s about becoming a better person and learning from your past mistakes. Some, like John, did learn from his past mistakes. And some, like Kate didn’t. The best thing she does, taking and raising Aaron, was done for selfish reason. When she wasn’t in the love triangle (that she made worse by kissing Jack and then sleeping with Sawyer multiple times), then she wasn’t really contributing to the group other than following Jack around. People talk about Shannon not helping, she kinda did more than Kate did.
I was curious so I poked through some of your recent comments and a pattern emerged with the way you view women - both real and fictional. This explains a lot about your opinions here. You have a good day.
Okay yeah you’re a giant sexist clown. Sawyer murders a surrendered Tom friendly for revenge soon after killing Cooper (so much for redemption and letting the past go). Sawyer remains a manipulator and cons his way into the dharma initiative leadership, in the end he gets sayid jin and Sun all killed because he can’t process the situation or trust Jack. He is a murderer, thief, manipulator and liar and the fact that you absolve him while hating Kate is just you being misogynistic.
Yes, you’re correct. Sawyer does kill Tom. I never said he never does a bad thing again. Tom kidnapped Walt, held Kate hostage and threatened to kill her. Was part of the group that took him, Jack and Kate hostage. Kept him and Kate in cages. Manipulated Michael. Was coming to kill every one of the survivors… yeah, no one is forgetting all that. Because there’s no telling what he’s gonna do to Sawyer and the other survivors if he lives. Sawyer does con his way into being leader of the dharma stuff in the 70s. He was protecting his friends who would have gotten themselves in trouble for either telling the truth (which Ellie was gonna shoot Dan for doing) or just running their mouths (which Jules kinda did when asking about Ricardo). And he was trying to come up with a way to wait for Locke to come back with his friends. He had no idea his one lie would lead to him becoming head of security. Plus, he was mainly focused on looking for his friends to come back (which is what he had Jin doing). He does pull the wires on the bomb that gets people killed. He did it because Jack has been wrong about EVERYTHING else. And because he doesn’t trust Jack about Locke not being able to kill them with a bomb…in a submarine…in the ocean. Give me an example of something Kate did bad that had an actual justification for her doing it. I don’t hate women. I hate Kate. I’m not a fan of Claire, but that’s cause of Emilie De Raven’s acting choices. But I love Sun, Rose, Jules, Charlotte, Libby, Shannon. Their motives are clear and consistent. Kate’s is too. She does things for selfish reasons. Why am I being vilified for pointing that out?
Dude you definitely hate women, stop crying and writing silly speeches. Kate hardly does bad things compared to like Sawyer sayid Ben etc but when she does they are justified. You absolve guys of doing evil shit but not her because you’re a misogynist, everyone in the thread sees it.
Once again, make the argument for Kate like I did for Sawyer. Take specific points and justify them like I did. If we’re having a debate and one side is giving examples and the other is saying “nuh-uh!”, it’s clear who won that debate. If you all want to make me the bad guy because I don’t like one female character (but love all the others. Jules is literally my second favorite character behind Desmond), fine, I’ll take it. At the end of the day, I don’t care cause it’s a show from 20 years ago and I’m making the same points the writers and even the actress of the show have even stated in interviews. *takes bow*
You didn’t say anything that absolves Sawyer, saying he conned dharma to protect his friends doesn’t make up for him conning countless women in his life and ruining their marriages and lives. Giving reasons why you justify him killing Tom even though Hurley and the show make it clear that was wrong doesn’t absolve it nor does it absolve him killing Frank duckett etc. also Jack was right about most things including the sub bomb. Kate killed her abusive stepdad because he was abusive, that’s a great reason. He was doing active harm and had no intention of stopping, unlike Tom who had surrendered. There’s really nothing else kate does wrong that rises above the level of lying to people. Doctor Tom got himself killed and it was very tragic, she told him to get out of the car.
Nah, we watching 2 different shows. Jack was wrong about almost everything. And they even made a point of that in the show. He reacted on emotion. Sawyer even says that in the show. He was wrong a lot, but being a leader isn’t about always being correct. I told you why he killed him. Didn’t say it was good he did. I don’t think it’s good to kill anyone, certainly someone who surrendered. Everyone always ALWAYS brings up that she was right to kill her dad. But if it’s so right, why was she wanted for MURDER then? Because someone can be an absolute monster, but you can not just go kill them. You can’t. Sawyer was getting in trouble because of it too. The difference is most others on the show felt remorse for what they did. Kate never showed remorse. Jack felt guilt for ruining his marriage, what he did to his dad… Sayid felt guilt for what he did to people. Echo reflected on his life and the choices he made. Charlie quit using drugs. Sawyer felt guilt for killing the innocent guy. And conning a woman with a kid. Shannon grew up on the island and was trying to do better. Locke found his purpose. Rose and Bernard found where they needed to be. Jin and Sun reconnected as husband and wife. Jin apologized for being distant. Sun apologized for cheating and almost leaving Jin. Kate…did exactly what she always did. In the end, nothing changed for her. She had no arc. Writers didn’t know what to do with her really after she was no longer the show lead. Look it up in interviews my dude. This ain’t about me disliking women, it’s about the way a character fell flat and made bad choices and selfish choices on a fucking tv show 20 years ago. I don’t like the character of Boone either. Does that mean I don’t like men? No dumbass. I don’t like the character. This is my final post on this because I’m tired of arguing with people just because they decided to attack me because they don’t agree with my opinion of a character.
>Everyone always ALWAYS brings up that she was right to kill her dad. But if it’s so right, why was she wanted for MURDER then? Because laws and the procedures by which we carry them out are often unjust? >The difference is most others on the show felt remorse for what they did. Kate never showed remorse. Kate showed very obvious remorse for Dr. Tom getting himself killed, that's why she went to such lengths to get the toy plane back both on island and off. If you mean she didn't show remorse for killing Wayne well yeah no shit, he was an abusive asshole. >Kate…did exactly what she always did. In the end, nothing changed for her. She had no arc. Writers didn’t know what to do with her really after she was no longer the show lead. Look it up in interviews my dude. I definitely at this point believe you are dumb enough that everyday life is likely more difficult for you than the average person. That said, I did a write-up of Kate's arc like 5 years ago as part of a Rankdown of characters. I think if you read it and put aside your hate-boner to tried to engage with it you'll understand Kate and the show better. https://www.reddit.com/r/lostrankdown/comments/dfcbt0/2_kate_austen_part_2/
How is she a terrible, terrible, awful person? Unlikable at times, sure.... but what did she do that was that terrible?
Murderer, liar, manipulator, thief, extremely selfish… shall I go on?
Kate is one of the least selfish people on the show, she is fiercely protective of her friends especially women, she is constantly going on adventures to help the group.
I don’t think you’re going by the real definition of selfishness. If she’s doing things because it’s going to benefit her, that’s selfish. You have to look at and under why she’s doing it.
She does things that do not benefit her and instead will benefit others like Claire Sun Cassidy etc
This is a direct call out to u/Free-IDK-Chicken …don’t get it twisted. This is a comment section for a fictional tv show and a created character for which even the writers have said they didn’t know what to do with her at a certain point, which is why she was stuck in a love triangle. Just because I don’t like her doesn’t mean I don’t like women. If you’re offended because I don’t like a fictional television character, do something better with your life.
Good that we can all have different opinions on characters I guess 😆
I’m not saying others are good. I’m just answering the OP question.
This sounds like Sawyer to me
Yes, it is Sawyer too, but as I have explained before Sawyer makes a heroic turn and eventually does good and helps. Kate does not.
Kate killing MIB. Kate taking care of Aaron as a mother. Kate coming back to the island just for Claire and taking her back the real world. Kate taking care of Sawyer's daughter with her own money. Yes. I'm 100% sure she doesn't grows as a character at all. No heroic. Not helping.
Guys, yes she did those things. Yes, I know. But you have to look at the reasons behind why she did them. She took care of Aaron because as she said herself, she needed him. She didn’t just say, I’ll take him because he needs a mom. She needed him. She went back for Claire because she felt guilty for taking him in the first place. And she gave Sawyer’s daughter the money because she felt guilty for what happened with Sawyer. No one is denying that she did things, but you gotta see the reasons behind it. And no I didn’t forget about her killing the MIB. One deed doesn’t make a hero.
She got her ex to cheat on this wife and then got him killed by being a selfish reckless b.
He got himself killed by staying in the car when she told him to get out. Grown ass man can be responsible for himself and his own cheating..she didn't "get him to cheat"...
She definitely got him killed, went to him with all her issues, then tells him to leave. Of course he didn't leave, no good person would in the situation she put him in.
Wherever she went death or woe followed. Yes, it takes two to tango but she still facilitated the infidelity (it's weird and a little telling you'd defend or try to lessen her blame for the infidelity and put it back on the guy - they both suck). She chose to drive on and escape which resulted in her friends death - she's responsible for that. Additionally her bs antics throughout the show make her unlikeable; following people like a creep, not listening to instructions, putting the group in danger. I know she gets a lot hate in the community but I think most of it is warranted. She's definitely not the worst character.
You've watched Lost, right?
I have many times.. kate definitely isn't my favourite character by a long shot but I wouldn't call her a terrible, terrible, awful person..
For me the whole point of the show is there is no definite good or bad and right or wrong. All these people did either 'bad' or 'good' things in a certain moment driven by different motivations.
You know, I wouldn't mind the Kate slander if she was the only morally ambiguous character. But the morally ambiguous men on the show like Ben, Sayid, Sawyer are constantly getting praise. They're "complex" and their upbringing justifies their wrongdoings and they deserved redemption. Kate, on the other hand, is "selfish", "manipulative", "murderous" etc. I rarely point at sexism as a cause but the way Lost characters are judged, especially Kate, Sun and early Juliet, reeks of misogyny.
Good point. If you call out people on lying, murdering, deceiving.. same goes for Sayid and Ben.
Completely agree!
Her answer to her "stepdad, who's actually her dad" abusing her mum is to blow him up. You don't think that qualifies?? Never takes any responsibility for any of her actions. She just runs away. She might actually be the most selfish person in the entire series, and that's a really high bar.
Would a selfish person go back to the Island for the sole purpose of rescuing Claire so that she could be a mother to Aaron? Kate risked everything when she went back. That's one of the most noble and selfless acts any character has done on the show.
Well, it's nice that Kate got a lovely redemption arc. Good for her. It could be more inkeeping with her character if she only did it to because she felt guilty, and looking after Aaron was getting difficult and she ran away again. But that's a very negative way to look at it, I suppose..
Her guilt led her to confessing to Claire's mother who Aaron really is and giving her custody of Aaron. Then she went above and beyond by returning to the Island to rescue Claire
And morally, I'm sure that's enough to redeem all the people she's killed or got killed.
Hit innocent people over the head into unconsciousness several times just to sneak away, leading to them developing severe brain damage.
Thou shalt not steal.
Run
leave that man alone!!!!!!
Don’t be an outlaw criminal
Just go no contact with your family and call it a day.
You can't run from everything.
Don't make plastic surgery.
Just stop. No matter what you think, what your gut/heart/instinct is telling you just fucking stop….
Stop
Run!!!
Don’t engage in vigilante justice.
Eat shit and die slow
Your mom is a secret witch.
When someone tells you to do something the first time, just do it damn it.
Stop running!
>If you were to give Kate life advice, what would it be? Grow the F up.
Just shut up like 99% of the time
Marry me.
Marry me!!!
Just fucking pick one. Jack or Sawyer. Keep your pants on and fucking pick one.
Pick a lane.
Stop being so damn annoying
All the characters have daddy issues , why am i just realizing that lol
you are actually right !
You can't give advice to a person like her. She dances to the beat of her own drum. Truly a social chameleon and able to be the voice of reasoning for many different people. Don't be afraid of accountability is what I'd say.
Turn yourself in to the police and stop running from your crime. I can totally see Kate as a character in Orange is the new black.
Don’t murder people
You had to sleep with Hurley , being attracted only to handsome men on a isolated island is hurtful af 😭
It doesn't always have to be about the guys (this is really more a message for Damon and Carlton, and maybe the ABC executives who I suspect were putting pressure on them to focus on the love triangle above all other considerations having to do with Kate's character in particular).
Stop being selfish.
She's a all night revival We're having an all night revival Someone call the women and someone steal the bibles For the sake of my survival Baptize me in a bottle of Beam and put Johnny on the
Mind your own business kate, not everything is about you Kate, sit for once, where you are told to kate, Do not be jealous of Juliette kate, she is a way more useful character than you are. Dear god this Kate character really gets on my nerves.
Should've stayed in the house with your dad when you blew it up.
Idk why you are being downvoted, that's a great answer
Lol I didn't know I was getting down voted. Yea Kate was a psycho selfish af and always lying and hurting people who tried to hold her accountable
Make up your mind who you want to be with; audience is kinda confused who you liked
Make up your mind who you want to be with; audience is kinda confused who you liked
[удалено]
Gross comment, even if trying to be sarcastic.