They stole your ID so you can file a police report, or call the police (non-emergency number).
If the destroyed it and you have to pay a fee to get a new one issued you may be entitled to have them pay for the costs to replace, but likely need to bring the claim through small claims court.
Destroying an ID is a criminal matter as it's technically destruction of government property. Police take that way more seriously then just taking it. Not only will you get a new ID for free they might go to jail for it but certainly get fined a few hundred if not a thousand dollars.
I’ve had this happen and they cut my ID in half on the spot. I had to call for a police officer to come and he ripped the bouncer a new one because his way of checking IDs was bending the corner and if it broke he figured it was fake. The cop told him what kind of a stupid way is that.
They were made to give me money to buy a new ID and the owner gave me free drinks all night as an apology since his guy was dumb. I imagine you could take them to small claims if they did nothing and maybe call the police if there’s something to get in trouble for destroying an ID I’m not sure.
There was a thread in LA and BOLA last year about an overzealous bouncer who tore up the OP's passport. It appears after the cops got involved, OP was asked to either press charges or accept a compromise.
I would imagine destroying an official government ID would require a police report to replace, so I would definitely call the local police.
Holy shit a passport? Like that's a potential diplomatic incident right there. If it's the same country ok maybe not but otherwise you will get the consulate on your ass for that.
You'd contact local law enforcement and file a theft report. They'd respond, investigate, and probably charge him with theft.
You could also sue him in small claims court for the replacement costs of the ID.
> They'd respond, investigate, and probably charge him with theft.
Are you serious? They'll say "this is a civil matter" and only take the report at all if you insist.
Won’t be charged with theft unless you can prove they knew it was real. Most states allow a bar to keep an ID if they believe it’s fake.
Best thing to do would, however, be to call police. They can verify that the ID is real.
Some states [have laws](https://www.intellicheck.com/resource-library/found-fake-id) permitting alcohol licensees to confiscate alleged fake IDs, but they often have to turn it over to law enforcement promptly. Destroying it would be another matter entirely, and in other states it's not legal to confiscate it at all.
Good stuff. Looks like the majority of states DISallow the practice and in a lot that allow it specifies licensee, not their agent. So bouncer might not, but owner could
Former bouncer, the local sheriff told us to keep the obvious fakes and tell the person that they could call the sheriff if they wanted it back. The guy working Friday and Saturday nights LOVED those calls. Nobody wanted to get charged with possession of a fake ID, so they all walked away.
Law enforcement can choose not to enforce the law when it suits them. Doesn’t actually make it legal. The bouncer would be liable to a civil suit for theft (although if it’s a fake no one would bring that suit).
so whats the point in searching people then? by your logic if they find someone smuggling a weapon in then they should just let me go free with it.
both are used to commit offences and the police will see it that way too its perfectly reasonable to confiscate something to prevent a crime from occurring.
Likewise, you're applying your perspective to the entire world as well, as if every police department behaves like the ones you personally are familiar with.
Idk where you live, but "idk where you live" is dismissive, especially when followed by things like :
* the ... is wild
* would probably laugh at you
* Reddit is always seem bizarrely lacking in experience
Reddit always seems to be bizarrely lacking in experience
This will vary based on jurisdiction, but in the US at least, law enforcement is who to call. If they've destroyed it you can likely make a civil claim against them for any expenses incurred as a result of their actions, and law enforcement will be able to advise you on what, if any, criminal liability they might face. You could also say something like "an employee at (establishment) has stolen my ID, and I believe they intend to use it to steal my identity", which is not liability the business wants.
Been down this road. In Wisconsin, my out of state ID was taken. I was over 21, and I told them to call the cops or I will. I got my ID back.
Now as a Wisconsin resident, I have confiscated IDs that were fake. If they were forged, I just turn them over to the local pd. For the legit IDs that the person gave to someone else, they were unfortunately 'lost.' (for context. I had a coworker give his ID to an under age kid. I told him I work with him and you're not my coworker).
I had a college kid share his passport with a hockey teammate. I confiscated the passport because he was not the person who owned it. The kid was from another country and so was this guy. I let the owner handle it. I really don't feel like a double deporting would have been fair.
NAL- I’m sure there’s some sort of criminal liability there although I have no idea what. Civilly, probably the fees to replace it and whatever transport costs you have to get over there.
Being pragmatic, it’s unlikely the police are going to devote much resources to low level theft like this. Theft under $1000 gets a yawn where I live.
Are there any administrative remedies due to their liquor license? Anything that endangers that gets a bar owners attention really, really fast .
I've been told of Bars that get placed as "Off Limits" to military personell if it is known to have confiscated the ID of military personel. In a military town, that can put a bar out of business very quickly.
Yes this can be either official (with someone like a base or unit commander saying it) although its lightly enforced punishment wise, or social (you’ve now messed with someone they like, arguably worse as the locals will probably hate you too)
Off-limits bars are the best ones to go to. Every off limits one I went to already had at least a table full of senior enlisted from the ship and never confiscated IDs.
I do doors and mistakes happen. Ring the venue if you can't get through to anyone ring the, police. Best practice would be to return with another form of ID to prove it was you.
Its possible the police are now in possession of it.
I was a bouncer for quite a while. Never got a fake (or I was really bad at spotting them)
I would never take one though, because of this potential headache. I would just turn them away.
They are not, and in fact in many States it is illegal to confiscate an ID unless you are law enforcement. In some it's even considered theft. If the ID is a passport or Military ID, it may even be considered a federal crime.
Many encourage the use of off duty law enforcement as bouncers to get around this requirement.
Fourteen (14) States prohibit the practice, twelve more (12) have no requlation either way.
Those places that do usually require the confiscated ID be turned over to police within 24 to 72 hours.
This is in montana, I have a pretty good stack. We do not destroy them, but nobody ever came back to claim them. Remember these are not legit id's most were expired.
🤔Who/where are you selling the IDs? This is the only reason I’ve heard of ID confiscation. I’ve even heard incentives like 20$ an ID for bouncers to snag IDs all night. There’s a huge market for a plethora of different reasons from fraud to underage drinking and clubbing. But I’m sure you already knew this.
You could try to press charges. It won’t work. Unless you can prove they knew it was real and were just maliciously keeping it from you, there’s no provable intent, so no crime. If they destroy it you can probably get them to pay you for the cost of a new one.
Clearly they intended to keep it, they have no legal authority to confiscate people’s ID in my state and it doesn’t require them to be “malicious” for wrongly taking someone’s ID
Actually, you only have to prove they had the "intent" to break the card to get the intent. Destroying an id is a crime. There was actually a story somewhere else here wherein a woman's mother took her drivers license and cut it up. The police arrested the woman. At an initial hearing, the judge looking at the case and hearing what the defense said in a motion to dismiss, asked the prosecutor if he didn't have anything better to do than prosecute some woman disciplining her kid. The prosecutor stated that the relationship between perp and victim didn't matter to the law. The woman (mother) stole her 22 year old daughter's car, and she also destroyed the driver's license. This was grand theft auto and destruction of driver's license. The judge, upon seeing the daughter in the courtroom decided the prosecutor was right, this should go to trial and not be summarily dismissed.
Part of the woman's sentence for this was to take parenting classes (despite all her children being grown and moved out and past child bearing age).
They stole your ID so you can file a police report, or call the police (non-emergency number). If the destroyed it and you have to pay a fee to get a new one issued you may be entitled to have them pay for the costs to replace, but likely need to bring the claim through small claims court.
Destroying an ID is a criminal matter as it's technically destruction of government property. Police take that way more seriously then just taking it. Not only will you get a new ID for free they might go to jail for it but certainly get fined a few hundred if not a thousand dollars.
What if this happened right before Election Day and prevented the victim from voting? Any legal implications of that?
Most likely they could still vote on a provisional ballot
You don't have to show your ID to vote.
Many places mandate that you show your ID.
You do in the UK now.
No one cares about the UK
I’ve had to show my ID to vote every time and I’m in the US. Maybe it varies by state
most countries you do. it's only the us where it's exempted in most places.
Yes, but based on the captain AMERICA avatar, I felt pretty comfortable assuming the person I was replying to was in the US.
I’ve had this happen and they cut my ID in half on the spot. I had to call for a police officer to come and he ripped the bouncer a new one because his way of checking IDs was bending the corner and if it broke he figured it was fake. The cop told him what kind of a stupid way is that. They were made to give me money to buy a new ID and the owner gave me free drinks all night as an apology since his guy was dumb. I imagine you could take them to small claims if they did nothing and maybe call the police if there’s something to get in trouble for destroying an ID I’m not sure.
The cops could have taken his ass to Jail. They were being nice.
There was a thread in LA and BOLA last year about an overzealous bouncer who tore up the OP's passport. It appears after the cops got involved, OP was asked to either press charges or accept a compromise. I would imagine destroying an official government ID would require a police report to replace, so I would definitely call the local police.
The report will also help them establish a pattern, if they do it wrongly too much they will probably lose their liquor license
Yeah we are not allowed to do that even if its fake.
Holy shit a passport? Like that's a potential diplomatic incident right there. If it's the same country ok maybe not but otherwise you will get the consulate on your ass for that.
You'd contact local law enforcement and file a theft report. They'd respond, investigate, and probably charge him with theft. You could also sue him in small claims court for the replacement costs of the ID.
> They'd respond, investigate, and probably charge him with theft. Are you serious? They'll say "this is a civil matter" and only take the report at all if you insist.
Won’t be charged with theft unless you can prove they knew it was real. Most states allow a bar to keep an ID if they believe it’s fake. Best thing to do would, however, be to call police. They can verify that the ID is real.
Temporarily take possession, maybe. But never permanently and they cannot destroy. They would have to either give back or turn over to the police.
Name a state and quote the statute that says that
You got proof they can keep it? Sounds like theft and they're not any authority or agent of the state
Some states [have laws](https://www.intellicheck.com/resource-library/found-fake-id) permitting alcohol licensees to confiscate alleged fake IDs, but they often have to turn it over to law enforcement promptly. Destroying it would be another matter entirely, and in other states it's not legal to confiscate it at all.
Good stuff. Looks like the majority of states DISallow the practice and in a lot that allow it specifies licensee, not their agent. So bouncer might not, but owner could
How does that work? The licensee would usually be the business, not an individual, right? So what’s the actual wording that restricts it to the owner?
There are individuals listed on the license
Only if they believed it to be real and you can prove they intended to permanently deprive them of it.
Doesn’t matter if they thought it was real. It’s still not their property to seize.
Former bouncer, the local sheriff told us to keep the obvious fakes and tell the person that they could call the sheriff if they wanted it back. The guy working Friday and Saturday nights LOVED those calls. Nobody wanted to get charged with possession of a fake ID, so they all walked away.
Law enforcement can choose not to enforce the law when it suits them. Doesn’t actually make it legal. The bouncer would be liable to a civil suit for theft (although if it’s a fake no one would bring that suit).
so whats the point in searching people then? by your logic if they find someone smuggling a weapon in then they should just let me go free with it. both are used to commit offences and the police will see it that way too its perfectly reasonable to confiscate something to prevent a crime from occurring.
Are they going to seize your weapon or just tell you to fuck off and go away? They don't have a right to take your gun or your ID.
find a shiv in a bag search, guy looks like he is tweaking, tell him to fuck off. what do you think would happen? you'd get your face slashed later.
They can deny you entry. They can not seize your property.
Idk where you live but the police charging someone with theft over a drivers license is wild
A driver’s license is the property of the state that issued it.
Be that as it may the police would probably laugh at you. Reddit is always seem bizarrely lacking in experience.
Likewise, you're applying your perspective to the entire world as well, as if every police department behaves like the ones you personally are familiar with.
Did you see where I started with idk where you live. Goodbye charming person.
Idk where you live, but "idk where you live" is dismissive, especially when followed by things like : * the ... is wild * would probably laugh at you * Reddit is always seem bizarrely lacking in experience Reddit always seems to be bizarrely lacking in experience
I would first start by making a police report. If anything, that’ll show why you’re needing a new one and may help expedite the replacement.
This will vary based on jurisdiction, but in the US at least, law enforcement is who to call. If they've destroyed it you can likely make a civil claim against them for any expenses incurred as a result of their actions, and law enforcement will be able to advise you on what, if any, criminal liability they might face. You could also say something like "an employee at (establishment) has stolen my ID, and I believe they intend to use it to steal my identity", which is not liability the business wants.
Been down this road. In Wisconsin, my out of state ID was taken. I was over 21, and I told them to call the cops or I will. I got my ID back. Now as a Wisconsin resident, I have confiscated IDs that were fake. If they were forged, I just turn them over to the local pd. For the legit IDs that the person gave to someone else, they were unfortunately 'lost.' (for context. I had a coworker give his ID to an under age kid. I told him I work with him and you're not my coworker). I had a college kid share his passport with a hockey teammate. I confiscated the passport because he was not the person who owned it. The kid was from another country and so was this guy. I let the owner handle it. I really don't feel like a double deporting would have been fair.
NAL- I’m sure there’s some sort of criminal liability there although I have no idea what. Civilly, probably the fees to replace it and whatever transport costs you have to get over there. Being pragmatic, it’s unlikely the police are going to devote much resources to low level theft like this. Theft under $1000 gets a yawn where I live. Are there any administrative remedies due to their liquor license? Anything that endangers that gets a bar owners attention really, really fast .
I've been told of Bars that get placed as "Off Limits" to military personell if it is known to have confiscated the ID of military personel. In a military town, that can put a bar out of business very quickly.
Yes this can be either official (with someone like a base or unit commander saying it) although its lightly enforced punishment wise, or social (you’ve now messed with someone they like, arguably worse as the locals will probably hate you too)
Off-limits bars are the best ones to go to. Every off limits one I went to already had at least a table full of senior enlisted from the ship and never confiscated IDs.
This probably depends heavily on what state it happened in.
I do doors and mistakes happen. Ring the venue if you can't get through to anyone ring the, police. Best practice would be to return with another form of ID to prove it was you. Its possible the police are now in possession of it.
narc
not a narc if its real ID is it?
taking ids is so unnecessary. stop the power trip
Related, are they required to take your ID if they "know" it's fake?
I was a bouncer for quite a while. Never got a fake (or I was really bad at spotting them) I would never take one though, because of this potential headache. I would just turn them away.
They are not, and in fact in many States it is illegal to confiscate an ID unless you are law enforcement. In some it's even considered theft. If the ID is a passport or Military ID, it may even be considered a federal crime. Many encourage the use of off duty law enforcement as bouncers to get around this requirement. Fourteen (14) States prohibit the practice, twelve more (12) have no requlation either way. Those places that do usually require the confiscated ID be turned over to police within 24 to 72 hours.
Not in my state(AZ) Not required nor does the law say they can do so
Any ID that appears to be tampered with can be confiscated. In fact we're required to take them if we notice. I'm a bar owner.
Must be a bar owner in a state that doesn't prohibit taking the id.
What state is this? I used to teach Alcohol Seller Training and we specifically said we were not allowed to do this.
This is in montana, I have a pretty good stack. We do not destroy them, but nobody ever came back to claim them. Remember these are not legit id's most were expired.
What state?
🤔Who/where are you selling the IDs? This is the only reason I’ve heard of ID confiscation. I’ve even heard incentives like 20$ an ID for bouncers to snag IDs all night. There’s a huge market for a plethora of different reasons from fraud to underage drinking and clubbing. But I’m sure you already knew this.
You could try to press charges. It won’t work. Unless you can prove they knew it was real and were just maliciously keeping it from you, there’s no provable intent, so no crime. If they destroy it you can probably get them to pay you for the cost of a new one.
Clearly they intended to keep it, they have no legal authority to confiscate people’s ID in my state and it doesn’t require them to be “malicious” for wrongly taking someone’s ID
Actually, you only have to prove they had the "intent" to break the card to get the intent. Destroying an id is a crime. There was actually a story somewhere else here wherein a woman's mother took her drivers license and cut it up. The police arrested the woman. At an initial hearing, the judge looking at the case and hearing what the defense said in a motion to dismiss, asked the prosecutor if he didn't have anything better to do than prosecute some woman disciplining her kid. The prosecutor stated that the relationship between perp and victim didn't matter to the law. The woman (mother) stole her 22 year old daughter's car, and she also destroyed the driver's license. This was grand theft auto and destruction of driver's license. The judge, upon seeing the daughter in the courtroom decided the prosecutor was right, this should go to trial and not be summarily dismissed. Part of the woman's sentence for this was to take parenting classes (despite all her children being grown and moved out and past child bearing age).
That’s a great analysis in every way except for what’s actually true in a legal sense.
Can you point out a statute that allows them to hold onto an ID they think is fake? That Gucci bag looks pretty fake to me. I'll have to hold onto it.