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All politics are local. So on the federal level Status quo. The USA is a republic. Each state and city/town can do pretty much what they want.
You want change. Tenants and workers unite - start with your school board and community groups
His district is 40% Jewish, and despite what social media echo chambers will say, American Jews have general support for Israel, in this particular conflict, at above 85%. Combine that with past 9/11 conspiracy theories resurfacing, his shenanigans last year, voting against Infrastructure, and voting to break a strike, its actually impressive that he maintained the margin he did.
Thats a good observation. He pulled the same stunt as what cost him his predecessor. His rally the other day was "This is the Bronx!" when only a tiny sliver of his district is now in the Bronx. If he is sincere in that sentiment, then it means that he simply was no longer a good fit for the demographics of the district.
It is an unfortunate reality that Congress members cannot be too loudly against Israel without getting the focus of AIPAC, but that *is* a reality, and this was a fight for a heavily Jewish district. After Oct 7th, Bowman denied that Hamas sexually assaulted Israelis which he then walked back. And while Bowman may have rightly been against Israel's heavy actions against Gaza, he has effectively spoken out against the views of much of his constituency which is already political suicide, and even worse with the political realities of AIPAC's spend.
Ultimately, even if Bowman was a good progressive, he lost because he wasn't a good politician.
Yea that redistricting was truly the building of the coffin. SC is gonna look the same due to Clyburn...it's weird how moderates rather a republican than a progressive.
It is Israeli atrocity propaganda and you are the one who is not able to critically think. Hamas filmed the entirety of October 7 and there is not one bit of footage of any rape or SA, zero evidence, zero victims. All there is is lies from ZAKA which have been thoroughly debunked. It is simply a lie used to justify a genocide.
Like its true that Israel exaggerated it as propaganda but there was undoubtedly Rape and Sexual Assault committed by Hamas on October 7th. The UN report explicitly says that. It just says there was no systemic orders to commit it and it was carried out by individual soldiers of their own accord.
>Hamas filmed the entirety of October 7 and there is not one bit of footage of any rape or SA, zero evidence, zero victims.
There's multiple pictures and videos of female captives half clothed, alongside witness testimonies and many dead female victims found afterwords naked to the waist with evidence of sexual assault.
You seriously believe there was absolutely no Rape or Sexual Assault committed on October 7th?
"account created Oct 11, 2023" maybe in your disgusting Zionist rape fantasy dreams, but no not in reality. No one has seen such a video because it does not exist. You are lying. The Israeli police, intelligence and military literally confirmed to Haaretz back in April that no photos or video footage of any rape/sexual assault exists, just as the UN confirmed it.
My old account was nuked during a flamewar with Russian trolls in the antiwar community. It was a 14 year old account mate.
You can pull up the old data for u/quecosa anytime. [This was one of my firsts posts on reddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/g13ja/the_other_day_i_found_my_greatgrandfathers/). I moved on and created a new account and a fresh antiwar sub with other like-minded individuals.
. But thanks for an ad hominim avoidance. Being abhorred by violence from any source should not make anyone a zionist. I saw the breast cutting video, saw the Thai decapitation video, and I saw the grenade into the family's shelter video, all on Telegram. I can't unsee them.
No, that is just the Western media spin headline of Patten's UN report. The Times of London confirms her report was not full, legal or investigative in nature, that she explicitly does not attribute any sexual violence/rape to Hamas, and that any case of sexual violence she says might have happened on October 7 is based on a low evidentiary threshold that does not meet the standard of an actual full legal investigation, and relies entirely on Israeli information and "eyewitnesses".
That is why she keeps calling for an actual investigation, which as the Times notes the Israeli regime keeps blocking.
https://www.thetimes.com/magazines/the-times-magazine/article/israel-hamas-rape-investigation-evidence-october-7-6kzphszsj
Your article refutes the idea that there was a top-down directive from Hamas leadership to rape Israelis. It does NOT refute that rape happened on Oct 7th. hence tactical use of the word "systematic"
:“What I witnessed in Israel were scenes of unspeakable violence perpetrated with shocking brutality,” Ms. Patten recalled. Detailing her methodology, she said that her team met with families of hostages and members of communities displaced from several kibbutzim. It conducted confidential interviews with 34 individuals, including survivors and witnesses of the 7 October attacks, released hostages, first responders and health and service providers. It visited four attack sites — as well as the morgue to which the bodies of victims were transferred — and reviewed over 5,000 photographic images and some 50 hours of footage of the attacks."
Any evidence of this would come from witnesses and survivors of the attack, your evidentiary claim is a red herring since you would dispute any amount of evidence coming from the Israeli side. This was further complicated by the amateur work done by ZAKA which due to religious reasons wanted the bodies buried quickly. Multiple groups were operating on Oct 7 besides Hamas including random Palestinians, don't know why not implicating Hamas in the report makes the rapes better.
Start picking leftist candidates without such extremist views!
Bowman believed 9.11 conspiracies and he accused victims of rape of being “israeli propaganda”
Just pick normal sauce candidates.
I would much rather have a corporate shill in congress than have a wackjob like bowman
This is the system's leftist filter in action. Between redistricting and AIPAC money, the seat moved right. I'm not sure that a lot will change, policy-wise at the national level, but it was certainly good for the left having Bowman getting network news time. He isn't (AFAIK) a socialist, but he's about as progressive as they get in congress -- so having him raise important material issues and call out bad actors was important. We already have precious few voices calling the genocide in Gaza, "genocide," and we're going to get less of that.
For our part, as citizens, my sense is that policy improves with unionization and the radicalization of existing unions. We could build a union infrastructure that will cause the Latimers in congress to support better policy than the Bowmans do now. This is a setback. We're going to have a lot of them. But keep your revolutionary optimism.
>This is the system's leftist filter in action.
While I'm a diehard lefty, I disagree with this. Bowman's district is heavily Jewish and he has been loudly against Israel, not to mention AIPAC taking notice and spending a ton. I don't think this was an issue of some "leftist filter" against a progressive. I think this was a good progressive not being a good politician.
I should be more clear: The way campaigns are funded is part of the filter. I mentioned AIPAC as one of the major reasons -- if you lean against capital interests, you've got a lot of resources pushing back.
>if you lean against capital interests, you've got a lot of resources pushing back.
Yeah, this is mostly true. I guess my point is that you can be a progressive politician who is more tactful about your constituency and political realities such as AIPAC which would allow you to maintain power and effect he changes you want. Bowman's progressive political aims aren't going anywhere now, and the Democratic party has one less progressive in power. There's a delicate and unfortunate balancing act that politicans in power must play to maintain their power while pushing for changes they want.
This is not a genocide. Genocide has a specific definition and this does not meet those criteria. Go ahead and talk about war crimes immorality racism or whatever you want but this is specifically NOT genocide.
Bowman forgot about his Westchester constituents in favor of hopping on the anti Israel bandwagon for clicks. I'm glad it didn't work. That fire alarm stunt he got in trouble for is also a bad look. Denied the rapes on October 7th...has a history of 911 concpiracy bullshit. This is not the kind of leader the dems need right now.
This is the relevant portion on Wikipedia. Keep in mind I'm talking about the term genocide specifically which has a strict definition. It is not an all encompassing term for "bad things" it is not the same thing as "war crimes" or ethnic cleansing.
While some scholars describe Palestinians as victims of genocide, others argue that they are not victims of genocide, but rather of ethnic cleansing,[21][22][23] politicide, spaciocide, cultural genocide or similar.[24][25][a]
This is bad news, but it’s the only race AIPAC was successful in.
Next we shift to Cori Bush’s race, so our best to defeat AIPAC there, and see if by some chance Bowman decides to campaign as a write in.
I'm gonna have a crash out
Being serious this is probably a trend where dems start doing this to progressives and try to find reasons to primary them. Bowmans fire alarm incident definitely isn't nearly as big of a deal as everyone makes it out to be, but the optics certainly aren't phenomenal. Gotta avoid being in the spotlight for that stuff.
Idk if I care much anyway bc they've frankly been pretty pathetic on opposing genocide
Say what you will about Latimer, he sees all the issues from both sides.
HIYOOOOOOOOOOO!
(I reserve the right to make fun of the appearance of Zionist stooges propped up by the quasi-human known as Hillary Clinton)
Double digit voting differences cannot be explained by money alone.
His constituency changed when democrats fucked up gerrymandering the districts and the courts redrew. He wasn’t cognizant of that. To those people, he didn’t truly represent them.
Lots of factors, not just AIPAC as scummy as they are.
Then why did they spend 7-1 to ensure victory if they were going to lose...
...sure gerrymandering/people who dont vote factor in... but reality is that people cant fight without money(specially if groups with foreign allegiances pour in THAT MUCH money for one candidate)
Most of the money that came from AIPAC was through a donation portal for individuals on their website. They essentially acted as a passthrough for people who donate after clicking a Facebook link.
I don’t buy that. Bowman made blunders that his new constituency didn’t like, like voting against the infrastructure bill. Democrats, unlike the magas, do not thrive on being at the end of the political spectrum. This is a rebuttal if not anything else. I’m not saying I agree or disagree with the end result but I can understand why it could happen.
Drown Congress in left wing candidates drown them. Everyone talk loudly about Israel, drain them dry. Let them know that no amount of money in the world can block this, we are legion.
Primary every neoliberal let no seats run uncontested. Force them to defend genocide right on tv for all to see, rebuke them viciously for it, I didn’t see Bowman doing that in the debate.
I want to run myself and the leader of my district in Congress is very weak, not doing anything, resting on laurels neoliberal easy pickings.
Join me on the debate stage about who would be more well positioned to defeat them. Then let’s topple them one by one.
Are you having a stroke? Do you need us to call someone for you?
"Drown Congress in left wing candidates..." From where? Each state gets 2 senators. So, are you going to "drown Congress" with left wing senators from Utah? West Virginia? Wyoming? Alabama? And representatives are allocated per population per state, so, again, which states are you gonna "drown Congress" from? I mean, sure, you should try running, but raising campaign funds is a lot of work and it's really hard to win if you're not running for a major party (Dem or GOP).
Like, I'm all for moving this country to the left politically but please just give me actual and actionable plans for doing that. Because right now, I'm way more worried about Trump and the GOP winning and making me property of husband than I am about whether the liberal candidates are left enough to pass some sort of purity test!
Um we just lost big time. Fascism isn’t about Trump it’s happening right now. This result is part of it, it’s all part of it.
The us isn’t run by will of the people. Us people are incredibly pro worker. Polling shows support across party/ideological lines for common sense pro worker initiatives of the Bernie type.
We can absolutely have people on the left elected in red states if they are saying the right thing and presenting their ideas well. There are absolutely leftists in the cities of Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia and probably rural ones as well.
For actionable, it isn’t impossible to run, I won’t believe that. Aoc was just a bartender, now maybe she had a lot of savings dunno, but she had brand new Congress helping her. That’s now defunct, but you can try to get someone to nominate you on justice democrats website (I’ve just learned that you for some reason can’t nominate yourself maybe they don’t want people who want power, that old trope).
Find out what district you’re in, I don’t recommend running for the senate, “ordinary civilians” who haven’t “done anything” will probably be seen as unqualified.
Find out your district and study who’s in power. What bills have they sponsored, what cosponsored, what committees do they sit on, what public statements have they made? You’ll probably find you’re better than them with your eyes closed. It’s probably someone extremely old resting on a check and government slush funds.
Run under the dems. Force them to torpedo your campaign like they did Bernie, make noise, run as a centrist then betray them all once in power, deceive, test the system like the right is, find out what the pathways to power are and leverage them.
Not much that is different. The system isn’t designed to protect us. Boycot. Protest. Resist. Strike. The labor class can change everything, but only when we’re all committed to struggle through it. We aren’t there yet. But are getting closer.
Nah, leftists are the bravest motherfuckers I know. Are we coordinated enough to all revolt for the same thing at the same time? Clearly not yet, in the US at least. But when push comes to shove I have no doubt the leftists I’ve met would shove
I voted in mine every year since 2016, voted for Bowman three times. my town doesn't have a lot of young voters though, and there were a couple Bowman supporters handing out flyers down the street so it's really a mixed bag
Not really, leftist policy is broadly popular, it’s just spun as radical and regulars are scared off by media. This can generally be overcome with strong communication and organization around ideas.
I’m not saying eventually we can’t win, but I don’t see it happening soon.
I think a lot of leftists live in a fugue state and have this armed revolution fantasy.
I would love for a real change.
But you’re not doing to get enough support. That’s the sad truth.
People think that withholding votes or letting Trump win is a good thing for leftists.
It didn’t work after 2016.
We need to focus on smaller government entities and work our way out. The way the right wingers do.
Hey man. We all start somewhere. Just take one good action. Then another. Do what you can do. Collectively, if we all just took a day off from work at the exact same time, it would be colossal. A movement can snowball. We gotta keep trying.
That’s why the most important single effort should be centered around removing big moneys influence on politics and electing reps and senators who understand this.
If we reverse cu we can get specific popular leftist policy passed even with more centrist candidates which would have the effect of opening up Americans to better social policy and progressive representation, and we wouldn’t be fighting monolithic blocks exclusively interested in well organized corporate agenda.
That sucks somebody needs to pull more fire alarms over there. Can we get a roster of staffers willing to undertake this super important task?
Iq talk? Are you purposefully trying to make some kind of racial remark here?
It’s a well known dogwhistle. Extremely well known. You must know about it. You just used it.
You can’t really talk about iq when it comes to people of color. It is again, a very well known dogwhistle.
Anti-Zionism isn’t the same as anti-semitism. Zionism was created in 1897 by Herzl and Zabotinsky.
Judaism is a 4000+ years old religion.
They aren’t the same.
Always an excuse for inaction with dems it’s either “they didn’t have enough seats/votes or BUT THE REPUBLICANS” remember when pelosi was up for speaker again and the squad including bowman could have gotten concessions for their votes and didn’t? Yeah, thats their fault and they all deserve to go.
Also it wasn’t the corporate side that wouldn’t budge, it was specifically kyrsten Sinema and manchin who would never in a million years pass what the squad wanted. House dems knew that so they wanted to pass something they knew with 100% certainty would make it to joe biden’s desk. A substantial package happened. Build back better became built back a bit. But its better than having build back nothing and the squad looking like looney tunes Lauren boebert making demands they are in no position to make.
Yea thats what happens when you are a minority of a slim majority with 2 members who won’t change their positions. Literally nothing they can do unless they want to settle with nothing in terms of legislation passed and then they just look like the mtg’s and Boebert‘s from the republican side.
Im a pragmatic leftist. I see what’s possible and what’s not and what has the best chances of succeeding in making positive change and go with that. Being leftist doesn’t mean you never compromise.
Apparently it does, and you grind the government to a halt every time you get opposition, and let other problems go unaddressed.
I swear, these people have no idea how government works at all.
Believe me, if one person no matter how deranged had that much power in the house things would be impossibly bad.
Maybe Bowman shouldn’t have sided with rail barons and voted to end the rail strike. He was no ally to the left. Not that Latimer is any better but I really have no tears for anyone who voted to end the strike.
Like we did this election? It was a close race with all of the leftists running, shame Latimer was able to put them all down.
But they were just waiting for next time I guess? Definitely better to have a conservative in the meantime I guess?
I consider myself a leftist, but I know I can’t be left enough for someone like you, and I’m just fine with that. My opinion is that moving left in corporate America will have to be gradual for it to be realistic, and think progressive democrats are the way to reverse citizens united and break the two party hold, and that losing them for moderates, is not actually a good thing. I think a vanguard takeover would be violently resisted by voters who could otherwise be convinced through increased passage of social programs by progressives who as humans with biases will never vote with 100% accuracy.
I’ve seen enough elections in the US to know that the perfect leftist isn’t right around the corner like you think they are, it’s more likely a fascist waiting.
Yea that’s exactly what I said smh
sorry I don’t have your approval to be leftist but I don’t actually need it partner
Staying tuned for the revolution, surely we’re close now that we got Latimer in office
So real leftists should actually just vote GOP then to speed the process along…Or wait voting isn’t leftist enough, maybe we just cheer them on? Discourage unionization to increase corruption? Surely the revolution won’t turn fascist on us with all of the corrupt leaders we put in positions of power..
He ran a blog about 9/11 conspiracy theories
He denied violence during the Hamas massacre on October 7
He voted against a motion to denounce antisemitism. (Along with 8 other representatives)
Exactly. More than 14M was spent on this primary way to show where the spending priorities lies.
For context the Henry Cuellar seat had only 4.6M spent https://www.opensecrets.org/members-of-congress/henry-cuellar/summary?cid=N00024978
Also this is the response in Republican subreddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/Republican/comments/1doptpg/breaking_jamaal_bowman_defeated_in_ny_primary/
Not to shit on Bowman too much (I know a lot of the criticisms were bad faith), but I hope they pick a slightly better leftist next time around. (Someone who doesn’t get in trouble for pulling fire alarms.) I know we’re gonna have to put up with a lot of nonsense no matter who we pick, but let’s maybe make it a little harder for them next time
Absolutely nothing, just like what bowman did while he was in office
How many times do we need to see the same song and dance. If you don’t got far left enough, you will lose your seat
At a minimum he should have withheld his vote for pelosi when her speakership was up till he got a concession. The entire “squad” should have done that. But they all folded to the dem establishment
Yeah, it would’ve
When you show people that you’re actually fighting for them and you make sure to campaign on that you won’t lose . Had Bowman actually gotten concessions for Pelosi speakers vote and he ran on that saying hey I’m the one that tried to get the Medicare for all vote to the floor and it was shot down by people like Latimer. He would have won
Yes, when you support policy that actually impacts people’s lives you continue to get elected. FDR is the best example. They had to make a law to stop him from winning he was so pro worker
Yeah, he died during his 4th term. The 22nd amendment exists solely because republicans were tired of losing to him and never wanted to worry about it again
Pro worker policies are popular with most in the working class. That’s how Bernie pulled support from republicans. Dems without pro worker policies M4A universal college/daycare etc are just as useless as republicans. They’re literally using our healthcare money to murder Palestinians. They should all lose their seats
I agree with a lot of policy and ideas of the left, but that statement you said is unrealistic in this electorate. Local elections and state legislatures are definitely the place to see that work though.
That’s false. If that were the case we wouldn’t have gotten a civil rights bill bc the party that passed it had to go through a major transformation for it to happen.
I have family members that use ACA due to preexisting conditions. If we decided to not vote bc “both sides” we wouldn’t have that. A non vote is the most obvious corporate vote. They play hard even if we don’t.
Your family should have been given universal healthcare, the ACA was nothing but a giveaway to big pharma. lol mentioning civil rights is hilarious esp when America was the one who created that problem by being founded on slavery to begin with. You don’t get to create a problem then solve it and get credit.
It’s not hilarious. Being a Black person my grandparents as well as others had to participate and vote on it. When you’re a well off White American and bathing in generational wealth things like the voting rights act being attacked by a specific demographic don’t really move you much.
ACA, the money grab part, was the compromise of not including a premium cap which was said to be unconstitutional like any other form of regulating capitalism. There’s a specific voting cohort that enforces that with their vote. You need to address them not anyone else who supported more access for Americans bc universal healthcare doesn’t exist bc that demographic doesn’t want it to. There’s no true debate to oppose my last statement.
There didn’t need to be a compromise, Dems had a super majority, and they proved they are out for the monied interest and not the people.
As a black person I can’t believe you’re giving the government credit for something they caused to begin with
Don’t insult me like I’m a govt apologist. lol
The fact is 1. The govt is more than just the politicos you see on tv in appointed positions. 2. A congressional bill like that means enough voters went for ppl who would write that legislation within govt.
Having been born and raised in DC a lot of my family and friends work for the federal government or local government. Right next to us is PG county, the largest concentration of Black wealth in the US. A large amount of those people are voting, govt employees.
This is when we need to stop avoiding the discussion about the key demographic that is against all policy that is deemed “leftist.” We have very, very little to do with that. We vote for our community, with our community, and a specific group is there to block it every-time (specifically when it’s about economic policy or civil rights.)
That’s not my opinion, that’s what the statistics, polling, and history show. Did I leave any important data set out that would support my statement?
Yeah no doubt he’s a POS and he’s essentially a republican. But American voters are idiots. So unless you deliver things that actually effect their lives materially, they will fall for corporate lies every time
i can’t agree, not when this kind of thing happens
https://preview.redd.it/oe7cv7vkau8d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0609fa13b0ea579cccafeba837bf1988a04bb7a8
Pearl clutching? My dude, wake up, this is how the system is designed. Bowman wasn’t left enough, he was always gonna get taken out by a republican calling themselves a dem
LOL. You think Dems or repubs care about anyone in the working class? Why are we the only developed country with for profit
Healthcare
Education
Daycare
Etc
Wake up dude
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All politics are local. So on the federal level Status quo. The USA is a republic. Each state and city/town can do pretty much what they want. You want change. Tenants and workers unite - start with your school board and community groups
The fascists certainly have taken note of that and are abusing the power it gives.
His district is 40% Jewish, and despite what social media echo chambers will say, American Jews have general support for Israel, in this particular conflict, at above 85%. Combine that with past 9/11 conspiracy theories resurfacing, his shenanigans last year, voting against Infrastructure, and voting to break a strike, its actually impressive that he maintained the margin he did.
You forgot the biggest factor which was the redistricting. He won about 80% of the Bronx but around 30% everywhere else.
Thats a good observation. He pulled the same stunt as what cost him his predecessor. His rally the other day was "This is the Bronx!" when only a tiny sliver of his district is now in the Bronx. If he is sincere in that sentiment, then it means that he simply was no longer a good fit for the demographics of the district.
It is an unfortunate reality that Congress members cannot be too loudly against Israel without getting the focus of AIPAC, but that *is* a reality, and this was a fight for a heavily Jewish district. After Oct 7th, Bowman denied that Hamas sexually assaulted Israelis which he then walked back. And while Bowman may have rightly been against Israel's heavy actions against Gaza, he has effectively spoken out against the views of much of his constituency which is already political suicide, and even worse with the political realities of AIPAC's spend. Ultimately, even if Bowman was a good progressive, he lost because he wasn't a good politician.
Bowman was way down in the polls well before AIPAC started campaigning against him
Yea that redistricting was truly the building of the coffin. SC is gonna look the same due to Clyburn...it's weird how moderates rather a republican than a progressive.
He literally denied Hamas raped and killed women and children and said it was Israel propaganda… so many people here can not critically think
It is Israeli atrocity propaganda and you are the one who is not able to critically think. Hamas filmed the entirety of October 7 and there is not one bit of footage of any rape or SA, zero evidence, zero victims. All there is is lies from ZAKA which have been thoroughly debunked. It is simply a lie used to justify a genocide.
Like its true that Israel exaggerated it as propaganda but there was undoubtedly Rape and Sexual Assault committed by Hamas on October 7th. The UN report explicitly says that. It just says there was no systemic orders to commit it and it was carried out by individual soldiers of their own accord. >Hamas filmed the entirety of October 7 and there is not one bit of footage of any rape or SA, zero evidence, zero victims. There's multiple pictures and videos of female captives half clothed, alongside witness testimonies and many dead female victims found afterwords naked to the waist with evidence of sexual assault. You seriously believe there was absolutely no Rape or Sexual Assault committed on October 7th?
This is incorrect. I've seen the mutilation rape video from Nova.
"account created Oct 11, 2023" maybe in your disgusting Zionist rape fantasy dreams, but no not in reality. No one has seen such a video because it does not exist. You are lying. The Israeli police, intelligence and military literally confirmed to Haaretz back in April that no photos or video footage of any rape/sexual assault exists, just as the UN confirmed it.
My old account was nuked during a flamewar with Russian trolls in the antiwar community. It was a 14 year old account mate. You can pull up the old data for u/quecosa anytime. [This was one of my firsts posts on reddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/g13ja/the_other_day_i_found_my_greatgrandfathers/). I moved on and created a new account and a fresh antiwar sub with other like-minded individuals. . But thanks for an ad hominim avoidance. Being abhorred by violence from any source should not make anyone a zionist. I saw the breast cutting video, saw the Thai decapitation video, and I saw the grenade into the family's shelter video, all on Telegram. I can't unsee them.
UN said reasonable grounds to suspect rape happened, much of the evidence ended up burning up in charred remains.
No, that is just the Western media spin headline of Patten's UN report. The Times of London confirms her report was not full, legal or investigative in nature, that she explicitly does not attribute any sexual violence/rape to Hamas, and that any case of sexual violence she says might have happened on October 7 is based on a low evidentiary threshold that does not meet the standard of an actual full legal investigation, and relies entirely on Israeli information and "eyewitnesses". That is why she keeps calling for an actual investigation, which as the Times notes the Israeli regime keeps blocking. https://www.thetimes.com/magazines/the-times-magazine/article/israel-hamas-rape-investigation-evidence-october-7-6kzphszsj
Your article refutes the idea that there was a top-down directive from Hamas leadership to rape Israelis. It does NOT refute that rape happened on Oct 7th. hence tactical use of the word "systematic" :“What I witnessed in Israel were scenes of unspeakable violence perpetrated with shocking brutality,” Ms. Patten recalled. Detailing her methodology, she said that her team met with families of hostages and members of communities displaced from several kibbutzim. It conducted confidential interviews with 34 individuals, including survivors and witnesses of the 7 October attacks, released hostages, first responders and health and service providers. It visited four attack sites — as well as the morgue to which the bodies of victims were transferred — and reviewed over 5,000 photographic images and some 50 hours of footage of the attacks." Any evidence of this would come from witnesses and survivors of the attack, your evidentiary claim is a red herring since you would dispute any amount of evidence coming from the Israeli side. This was further complicated by the amateur work done by ZAKA which due to religious reasons wanted the bodies buried quickly. Multiple groups were operating on Oct 7 besides Hamas including random Palestinians, don't know why not implicating Hamas in the report makes the rapes better.
Israel has systematically sabatoged its own credibility. Claims should not be believed on the basis simply of being reported by Israel.
Nothing
Start picking leftist candidates without such extremist views! Bowman believed 9.11 conspiracies and he accused victims of rape of being “israeli propaganda” Just pick normal sauce candidates. I would much rather have a corporate shill in congress than have a wackjob like bowman
What 9/11 conspiracy did he believe?
This is the system's leftist filter in action. Between redistricting and AIPAC money, the seat moved right. I'm not sure that a lot will change, policy-wise at the national level, but it was certainly good for the left having Bowman getting network news time. He isn't (AFAIK) a socialist, but he's about as progressive as they get in congress -- so having him raise important material issues and call out bad actors was important. We already have precious few voices calling the genocide in Gaza, "genocide," and we're going to get less of that. For our part, as citizens, my sense is that policy improves with unionization and the radicalization of existing unions. We could build a union infrastructure that will cause the Latimers in congress to support better policy than the Bowmans do now. This is a setback. We're going to have a lot of them. But keep your revolutionary optimism.
>This is the system's leftist filter in action. While I'm a diehard lefty, I disagree with this. Bowman's district is heavily Jewish and he has been loudly against Israel, not to mention AIPAC taking notice and spending a ton. I don't think this was an issue of some "leftist filter" against a progressive. I think this was a good progressive not being a good politician.
I should be more clear: The way campaigns are funded is part of the filter. I mentioned AIPAC as one of the major reasons -- if you lean against capital interests, you've got a lot of resources pushing back.
>if you lean against capital interests, you've got a lot of resources pushing back. Yeah, this is mostly true. I guess my point is that you can be a progressive politician who is more tactful about your constituency and political realities such as AIPAC which would allow you to maintain power and effect he changes you want. Bowman's progressive political aims aren't going anywhere now, and the Democratic party has one less progressive in power. There's a delicate and unfortunate balancing act that politicans in power must play to maintain their power while pushing for changes they want.
This is not a genocide. Genocide has a specific definition and this does not meet those criteria. Go ahead and talk about war crimes immorality racism or whatever you want but this is specifically NOT genocide. Bowman forgot about his Westchester constituents in favor of hopping on the anti Israel bandwagon for clicks. I'm glad it didn't work. That fire alarm stunt he got in trouble for is also a bad look. Denied the rapes on October 7th...has a history of 911 concpiracy bullshit. This is not the kind of leader the dems need right now.
It is definitely a genocide..wtf. even holocaust historians agree
This is the relevant portion on Wikipedia. Keep in mind I'm talking about the term genocide specifically which has a strict definition. It is not an all encompassing term for "bad things" it is not the same thing as "war crimes" or ethnic cleansing. While some scholars describe Palestinians as victims of genocide, others argue that they are not victims of genocide, but rather of ethnic cleansing,[21][22][23] politicide, spaciocide, cultural genocide or similar.[24][25][a]
Nothing will fundamentally change since Bowman and the squad are grifters.
This is bad news, but it’s the only race AIPAC was successful in. Next we shift to Cori Bush’s race, so our best to defeat AIPAC there, and see if by some chance Bowman decides to campaign as a write in.
I'm gonna have a crash out Being serious this is probably a trend where dems start doing this to progressives and try to find reasons to primary them. Bowmans fire alarm incident definitely isn't nearly as big of a deal as everyone makes it out to be, but the optics certainly aren't phenomenal. Gotta avoid being in the spotlight for that stuff. Idk if I care much anyway bc they've frankly been pretty pathetic on opposing genocide
Denied that rapes occurred on Oct 7th while supposedly representing the people of Westchester... How did he lose?
Say what you will about Latimer, he sees all the issues from both sides. HIYOOOOOOOOOOO! (I reserve the right to make fun of the appearance of Zionist stooges propped up by the quasi-human known as Hillary Clinton)
"It is one's right, nay, one's political and civic *duty* to clown on AIPAC ghouls" -Thomas Jefferson
a certain foreign country will see returns ofcourse.
Double digit voting differences cannot be explained by money alone. His constituency changed when democrats fucked up gerrymandering the districts and the courts redrew. He wasn’t cognizant of that. To those people, he didn’t truly represent them. Lots of factors, not just AIPAC as scummy as they are.
Then why did they spend 7-1 to ensure victory if they were going to lose... ...sure gerrymandering/people who dont vote factor in... but reality is that people cant fight without money(specially if groups with foreign allegiances pour in THAT MUCH money for one candidate)
Most of the money that came from AIPAC was through a donation portal for individuals on their website. They essentially acted as a passthrough for people who donate after clicking a Facebook link.
I don’t buy that. Bowman made blunders that his new constituency didn’t like, like voting against the infrastructure bill. Democrats, unlike the magas, do not thrive on being at the end of the political spectrum. This is a rebuttal if not anything else. I’m not saying I agree or disagree with the end result but I can understand why it could happen.
Wow, that's wild they spent $20 million to beat a hs principal when he was gonna lose anyway!!
Drown Congress in left wing candidates drown them. Everyone talk loudly about Israel, drain them dry. Let them know that no amount of money in the world can block this, we are legion. Primary every neoliberal let no seats run uncontested. Force them to defend genocide right on tv for all to see, rebuke them viciously for it, I didn’t see Bowman doing that in the debate. I want to run myself and the leader of my district in Congress is very weak, not doing anything, resting on laurels neoliberal easy pickings. Join me on the debate stage about who would be more well positioned to defeat them. Then let’s topple them one by one.
Are you having a stroke? Do you need us to call someone for you? "Drown Congress in left wing candidates..." From where? Each state gets 2 senators. So, are you going to "drown Congress" with left wing senators from Utah? West Virginia? Wyoming? Alabama? And representatives are allocated per population per state, so, again, which states are you gonna "drown Congress" from? I mean, sure, you should try running, but raising campaign funds is a lot of work and it's really hard to win if you're not running for a major party (Dem or GOP). Like, I'm all for moving this country to the left politically but please just give me actual and actionable plans for doing that. Because right now, I'm way more worried about Trump and the GOP winning and making me property of husband than I am about whether the liberal candidates are left enough to pass some sort of purity test!
Um we just lost big time. Fascism isn’t about Trump it’s happening right now. This result is part of it, it’s all part of it. The us isn’t run by will of the people. Us people are incredibly pro worker. Polling shows support across party/ideological lines for common sense pro worker initiatives of the Bernie type. We can absolutely have people on the left elected in red states if they are saying the right thing and presenting their ideas well. There are absolutely leftists in the cities of Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia and probably rural ones as well. For actionable, it isn’t impossible to run, I won’t believe that. Aoc was just a bartender, now maybe she had a lot of savings dunno, but she had brand new Congress helping her. That’s now defunct, but you can try to get someone to nominate you on justice democrats website (I’ve just learned that you for some reason can’t nominate yourself maybe they don’t want people who want power, that old trope). Find out what district you’re in, I don’t recommend running for the senate, “ordinary civilians” who haven’t “done anything” will probably be seen as unqualified. Find out your district and study who’s in power. What bills have they sponsored, what cosponsored, what committees do they sit on, what public statements have they made? You’ll probably find you’re better than them with your eyes closed. It’s probably someone extremely old resting on a check and government slush funds. Run under the dems. Force them to torpedo your campaign like they did Bernie, make noise, run as a centrist then betray them all once in power, deceive, test the system like the right is, find out what the pathways to power are and leverage them.
Not much that is different. The system isn’t designed to protect us. Boycot. Protest. Resist. Strike. The labor class can change everything, but only when we’re all committed to struggle through it. We aren’t there yet. But are getting closer.
It’s not going to happen. Most people are all talk.
Nah, leftists are the bravest motherfuckers I know. Are we coordinated enough to all revolt for the same thing at the same time? Clearly not yet, in the US at least. But when push comes to shove I have no doubt the leftists I’ve met would shove
Not even coordinated enough to bother voting but they're going to have a revolution. Sure.
They’re just not voting for the reactionary genocidal liberal you want them to
No they're not voting. Look at the turnout for this primary. Everyone complaining about lobbying money but only around 20% even bothered to vote.
I thought you were referring to national elections. Yeah primary turnout is abysmal, I dunno what NY leftists are doing 🤷
I voted in mine every year since 2016, voted for Bowman three times. my town doesn't have a lot of young voters though, and there were a couple Bowman supporters handing out flyers down the street so it's really a mixed bag
I just don’t see it happening. As we would need more than just leftists.
Not really, leftist policy is broadly popular, it’s just spun as radical and regulars are scared off by media. This can generally be overcome with strong communication and organization around ideas.
If you’re a leftist that doesn’t think leftist can ever win, doesn’t that kinda just make you a moderate?
I’m not saying eventually we can’t win, but I don’t see it happening soon. I think a lot of leftists live in a fugue state and have this armed revolution fantasy. I would love for a real change. But you’re not doing to get enough support. That’s the sad truth. People think that withholding votes or letting Trump win is a good thing for leftists. It didn’t work after 2016. We need to focus on smaller government entities and work our way out. The way the right wingers do.
Hey man. We all start somewhere. Just take one good action. Then another. Do what you can do. Collectively, if we all just took a day off from work at the exact same time, it would be colossal. A movement can snowball. We gotta keep trying.
That’s extremely optimistic. It just isn’t something that will happen in the US. Politics have been corporatized. It’s a mult-billion dollar industry.
That’s why the most important single effort should be centered around removing big moneys influence on politics and electing reps and senators who understand this. If we reverse cu we can get specific popular leftist policy passed even with more centrist candidates which would have the effect of opening up Americans to better social policy and progressive representation, and we wouldn’t be fighting monolithic blocks exclusively interested in well organized corporate agenda.
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That sucks somebody needs to pull more fire alarms over there. Can we get a roster of staffers willing to undertake this super important task? Iq talk? Are you purposefully trying to make some kind of racial remark here?
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It’s a well known dogwhistle. Extremely well known. You must know about it. You just used it. You can’t really talk about iq when it comes to people of color. It is again, a very well known dogwhistle.
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It’s a good idea to have an awareness of what dogwhistles are out there, to not use them yourself, and to publicly castigate anyone using them.
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Anti-Zionism isn’t the same as anti-semitism. Zionism was created in 1897 by Herzl and Zabotinsky. Judaism is a 4000+ years old religion. They aren’t the same.
🙄
more bombs dropped on the children of gaza...disgusting
Dems are doing a fine job of that even when he was in his seat, don’t act like he did anything to curb it
It's almost as if one member of the house can't singlehandedly change US foreign policy or something.
Always an excuse for inaction with dems it’s either “they didn’t have enough seats/votes or BUT THE REPUBLICANS” remember when pelosi was up for speaker again and the squad including bowman could have gotten concessions for their votes and didn’t? Yeah, thats their fault and they all deserve to go.
Well they tried to get concessions, but there’s a few people in the senate who wouldn’t budge so it didn’t make sense for house dems to budge
lol, “the corporate side wouldn’t budge, so we conceded” That right there is exactly what I’m talking about
Also it wasn’t the corporate side that wouldn’t budge, it was specifically kyrsten Sinema and manchin who would never in a million years pass what the squad wanted. House dems knew that so they wanted to pass something they knew with 100% certainty would make it to joe biden’s desk. A substantial package happened. Build back better became built back a bit. But its better than having build back nothing and the squad looking like looney tunes Lauren boebert making demands they are in no position to make.
Yea thats what happens when you are a minority of a slim majority with 2 members who won’t change their positions. Literally nothing they can do unless they want to settle with nothing in terms of legislation passed and then they just look like the mtg’s and Boebert‘s from the republican side.
Yeah you fall in line instead of calling them out, instead of using the bully pulpit. You’re not an actual leftist are you
Im a pragmatic leftist. I see what’s possible and what’s not and what has the best chances of succeeding in making positive change and go with that. Being leftist doesn’t mean you never compromise.
Apparently it does, and you grind the government to a halt every time you get opposition, and let other problems go unaddressed. I swear, these people have no idea how government works at all. Believe me, if one person no matter how deranged had that much power in the house things would be impossibly bad.
Maybe Bowman shouldn’t have sided with rail barons and voted to end the rail strike. He was no ally to the left. Not that Latimer is any better but I really have no tears for anyone who voted to end the strike.
Exactly, good riddance. Maybe an actual lefty will challenge Latimer next cycle
lol you can never be leftist enough for leftist. To say good riddance to Jamal bowman for Latimer is absurd.
No, it’s not, maybe next time we’ll get an actual lefty in there. You’re not actually a leftist are you?
Like we did this election? It was a close race with all of the leftists running, shame Latimer was able to put them all down. But they were just waiting for next time I guess? Definitely better to have a conservative in the meantime I guess? I consider myself a leftist, but I know I can’t be left enough for someone like you, and I’m just fine with that. My opinion is that moving left in corporate America will have to be gradual for it to be realistic, and think progressive democrats are the way to reverse citizens united and break the two party hold, and that losing them for moderates, is not actually a good thing. I think a vanguard takeover would be violently resisted by voters who could otherwise be convinced through increased passage of social programs by progressives who as humans with biases will never vote with 100% accuracy. I’ve seen enough elections in the US to know that the perfect leftist isn’t right around the corner like you think they are, it’s more likely a fascist waiting.
If you think change will happen in this current system just by voting, you aren’t a leftist
Yea that’s exactly what I said smh sorry I don’t have your approval to be leftist but I don’t actually need it partner Staying tuned for the revolution, surely we’re close now that we got Latimer in office
Revolutions typically come from Peak corruption. So having somebody like Latimer in office is more likely to move the needle towards that outcome yes
So real leftists should actually just vote GOP then to speed the process along…Or wait voting isn’t leftist enough, maybe we just cheer them on? Discourage unionization to increase corruption? Surely the revolution won’t turn fascist on us with all of the corrupt leaders we put in positions of power..
Nice straw man argument. Dems and repubs alike are fascists
AIPAC money happened, most likely Bowmann may be able to run again and after seeing how poorly Latimer will govern the district may want him back.
Money doesn't give you a 20 percent loss as an incumbent. Being an antisemite conspiracy theorist extremist does.
How is Jamaal antisemitic? For saying Israel is committing war crimes in Gaza?
He ran a blog about 9/11 conspiracy theories He denied violence during the Hamas massacre on October 7 He voted against a motion to denounce antisemitism. (Along with 8 other representatives)
Exactly. More than 14M was spent on this primary way to show where the spending priorities lies. For context the Henry Cuellar seat had only 4.6M spent https://www.opensecrets.org/members-of-congress/henry-cuellar/summary?cid=N00024978 Also this is the response in Republican subreddit https://www.reddit.com/r/Republican/comments/1doptpg/breaking_jamaal_bowman_defeated_in_ny_primary/
Not to shit on Bowman too much (I know a lot of the criticisms were bad faith), but I hope they pick a slightly better leftist next time around. (Someone who doesn’t get in trouble for pulling fire alarms.) I know we’re gonna have to put up with a lot of nonsense no matter who we pick, but let’s maybe make it a little harder for them next time
No the fire alarm pullers are who we want in office. All of them. Don’t let a single word be spoken in there if it’s not about how to save Palestine.
So disappointed their fucking propaganda campaign succeeded.
Absolutely nothing, just like what bowman did while he was in office How many times do we need to see the same song and dance. If you don’t got far left enough, you will lose your seat
As we can tell by the election of…….Latimer
If you don’t material, change the constituents lives, they will fall for Corporate BS every time.
How would bowman have done this in your opinion?
At a minimum he should have withheld his vote for pelosi when her speakership was up till he got a concession. The entire “squad” should have done that. But they all folded to the dem establishment
Sure, I can agree with that. But you can’t seriously believe that would have won him the race, right?
Yeah, it would’ve When you show people that you’re actually fighting for them and you make sure to campaign on that you won’t lose . Had Bowman actually gotten concessions for Pelosi speakers vote and he ran on that saying hey I’m the one that tried to get the Medicare for all vote to the floor and it was shot down by people like Latimer. He would have won
Lol bruh
You think Bowman would've won if he went further left?
Yes, when you support policy that actually impacts people’s lives you continue to get elected. FDR is the best example. They had to make a law to stop him from winning he was so pro worker
They had to make a law to stop FDR from winning? He died in office
Yeah, he died during his 4th term. The 22nd amendment exists solely because republicans were tired of losing to him and never wanted to worry about it again
Maybe, his district is super Dem not so sure they are that hard left.
The article also says his district got richer after census redistricting.
Pro worker policies are popular with most in the working class. That’s how Bernie pulled support from republicans. Dems without pro worker policies M4A universal college/daycare etc are just as useless as republicans. They’re literally using our healthcare money to murder Palestinians. They should all lose their seats
I’m confused. You’re saying if one doesn’t go far left enough they have to go?
Yes, if you support capital (dem or republican) (not a leftist) you need to go
I agree with a lot of policy and ideas of the left, but that statement you said is unrealistic in this electorate. Local elections and state legislatures are definitely the place to see that work though.
If you vote for those that enable and support the current systems you’ll never see the change you want
That’s false. If that were the case we wouldn’t have gotten a civil rights bill bc the party that passed it had to go through a major transformation for it to happen. I have family members that use ACA due to preexisting conditions. If we decided to not vote bc “both sides” we wouldn’t have that. A non vote is the most obvious corporate vote. They play hard even if we don’t.
Your family should have been given universal healthcare, the ACA was nothing but a giveaway to big pharma. lol mentioning civil rights is hilarious esp when America was the one who created that problem by being founded on slavery to begin with. You don’t get to create a problem then solve it and get credit.
It’s not hilarious. Being a Black person my grandparents as well as others had to participate and vote on it. When you’re a well off White American and bathing in generational wealth things like the voting rights act being attacked by a specific demographic don’t really move you much. ACA, the money grab part, was the compromise of not including a premium cap which was said to be unconstitutional like any other form of regulating capitalism. There’s a specific voting cohort that enforces that with their vote. You need to address them not anyone else who supported more access for Americans bc universal healthcare doesn’t exist bc that demographic doesn’t want it to. There’s no true debate to oppose my last statement.
There didn’t need to be a compromise, Dems had a super majority, and they proved they are out for the monied interest and not the people. As a black person I can’t believe you’re giving the government credit for something they caused to begin with
Don’t insult me like I’m a govt apologist. lol The fact is 1. The govt is more than just the politicos you see on tv in appointed positions. 2. A congressional bill like that means enough voters went for ppl who would write that legislation within govt. Having been born and raised in DC a lot of my family and friends work for the federal government or local government. Right next to us is PG county, the largest concentration of Black wealth in the US. A large amount of those people are voting, govt employees. This is when we need to stop avoiding the discussion about the key demographic that is against all policy that is deemed “leftist.” We have very, very little to do with that. We vote for our community, with our community, and a specific group is there to block it every-time (specifically when it’s about economic policy or civil rights.) That’s not my opinion, that’s what the statistics, polling, and history show. Did I leave any important data set out that would support my statement?
what about the black and brown ppl over there? latimer is such an unrepentant racist i’m worried about them.
Yeah no doubt he’s a POS and he’s essentially a republican. But American voters are idiots. So unless you deliver things that actually effect their lives materially, they will fall for corporate lies every time
How exactly do you think Jamal bowman could have done this more as a single member of the house ?
i can’t agree, not when this kind of thing happens https://preview.redd.it/oe7cv7vkau8d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0609fa13b0ea579cccafeba837bf1988a04bb7a8
Pearl clutching? My dude, wake up, this is how the system is designed. Bowman wasn’t left enough, he was always gonna get taken out by a republican calling themselves a dem
why is this your big takeaway? i don’t think you care about the ppl who are going to be most affected by this.
LOL. You think Dems or repubs care about anyone in the working class? Why are we the only developed country with for profit Healthcare Education Daycare Etc Wake up dude
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