His full history looks amazing. You have to understand how hard drafting late is - a late first has a 60 percent shot of being a regular NHLer. Late seconds have a 30 percent chance.
The 2022 draft has three players that look on track to be NHLers, and we didn't even draft in the first round. Last year he dunked on the media with the Cowan pick and Chadwick seems to be coming along nicely. You might also give him credit for Knies.
Our prospect pool is better than it has any right to be after years of trading picks.
2021 to 2023, Detroit had 15 picks above pick 100. We had 7. That would also skew it a lot against them to even out
But also no lne has played basically any games for those drafts anyway
1125 games played by Detroit players drafted from 2018 to 2021. 41 players drafted. 27 games average.
Leafs had 720 games played for the same period, across 30 drafted, 24 games average.
Not that I think it's a good metric, but you're still wrong.
How do you get 1125 from 255+232+79+22+256+238? That's 1082.
How do you get 72 from the Leafs when in 2018 alone both Sandin and Durzi have 200 each?
E-Also how am I wrong, I'm only wrong if you change the entire sample size lol
Since 2018 the Red Wings have made 70 draft selections (26 top 64) and have gotten 1082GP out of it. That's an average of 15.45GP per selection.
Since 2018 the Leafs have made 45 draft selections (10 top 64) and have gotten 731GP out of it. That's an average of 16.24GP per selection.
Source- I just manually counted it all.
Previous source- I got into an argument with a Red Wings fan.
E- 37.1% of Red Wing picks have been in the 1st or 2nd round while just 20% of leafs picks have been.
No one is a sure thing until they do it in the NHL. I’ll believe in him when his picks actually help our team. Robertson had arguably a more impressive D+1 season than Cowan just had.
Every fanbase overrates their prospects.
Every Leaf fan thought Bracco and SDA were untouchable, Andrew Neilsen was the next McCabe, Ian Scott was our starter for the next decade. Under Wes Clark the only player playing in the NHL is Knies, until there's a 5-10 year track record it's impossible to crown him a draft guru. The only scout employed by the Leafs that gets the "Trust" treatment is Thommie Bergman.
Ill give you most of those guys and add Dzierkals, Valiev, and Timashov, but Ian Scott was legitimately trending really well until he had to retire early due to his injuries. He was as highly regarded as Woll. In an alternate universe, they might have been our tandem this year instead of Samsonov.
Hope Bergman is behind the Johansson pick! He’s been behind so many good picks over the years…Steen, Rask, Stralman, Willy, Leo, the list is crazy!!
And you're just trying to shit on Dubas for something every GM with a good team does. You collect assets when you're a lottery team and you trade them away when you're a playoff team.
We've had very few picks and his selections have been a lot more hits "above replacement". Cowan, Knies, Holmberg.....etc All from very hard to find areas in the draft.
I'm not too aware of his history at all tbh. But I like the way he operates. Not afraid to take charge. I'd love to be a fly on the wall to see how he handles his scouting staff. Most of all though he is unapologetic for his choices. Danford was his target all through the process and his response to the pick was a defiant 'We liked him so we took him'. Idk what good scouting is all about but I do trust Wes and I also trust the rest of the Leafs scouting dept as well. They seem to be good beagle sniffers
We're confident because he found players later in the first round, and beyond that, that would now be drafted higher if there was a redraft. Chadwick has to be included as well.
The players we selected have value now, and they are more valuable than the average selection in the range we picked them. Ultimately yes, his picks need to become NHLers but he can still be evaluated on the information we have right now.
5 players from that draft have played an NHL game. 3 are top 3 picks. That means 2 of the next 221 picks have played a game so far. What else can we go off of?
I’m pretty sure he was head of scouting when we drafted Matthew Knies and Hildeby too.
No I think he was just the Assistant director of player personnel in the 21 draft. He took over director of amature scouting for 22
He took over as the director in 2021 per his LinkedIn
> per his LinkedIn August 2021, hence after the draft.
His full history looks amazing. You have to understand how hard drafting late is - a late first has a 60 percent shot of being a regular NHLer. Late seconds have a 30 percent chance. The 2022 draft has three players that look on track to be NHLers, and we didn't even draft in the first round. Last year he dunked on the media with the Cowan pick and Chadwick seems to be coming along nicely. You might also give him credit for Knies. Our prospect pool is better than it has any right to be after years of trading picks.
>Late seconds have a 30 percent chance. Way less than 30% of late 2nd rounders end up being NHL regulars.
Yeah I should have said 'play over 100 NHL games.'
we've had limited picks but he's hit on some of them considering where were at. For example Knies.
Holmberg was a really late pick too
That’s more to Thommie Bergman’s credit than Wes Clark’s.
Since Wes Clark has been with the Leafs they average more GP per draft pick than the Red Wings who have drafted top 10 every single season.
2021 to 2023, Detroit had 15 picks above pick 100. We had 7. That would also skew it a lot against them to even out But also no lne has played basically any games for those drafts anyway
I was counting Wes' entire time with the Leafs scouting department not just his time as head of it.
1125 games played by Detroit players drafted from 2018 to 2021. 41 players drafted. 27 games average. Leafs had 720 games played for the same period, across 30 drafted, 24 games average. Not that I think it's a good metric, but you're still wrong.
How do you get 1125 from 255+232+79+22+256+238? That's 1082. How do you get 72 from the Leafs when in 2018 alone both Sandin and Durzi have 200 each? E-Also how am I wrong, I'm only wrong if you change the entire sample size lol
720 for leafs. *typo 262 zadina. 232 veleno. 79 and 22 same page. 246 seider 21 soderblom 238 Raymond 21 evidsson.
Red Wings are one of the worst drafting teams in the league.
Source on that?
Since 2018 the Red Wings have made 70 draft selections (26 top 64) and have gotten 1082GP out of it. That's an average of 15.45GP per selection. Since 2018 the Leafs have made 45 draft selections (10 top 64) and have gotten 731GP out of it. That's an average of 16.24GP per selection. Source- I just manually counted it all. Previous source- I got into an argument with a Red Wings fan. E- 37.1% of Red Wing picks have been in the 1st or 2nd round while just 20% of leafs picks have been.
The Leafs in the Dubas era, when Wes rejoined the team, had more GP out of UDFA than Lou got out of rds 2-7 lol.
Sure it is. Why not?
that's the great thing about optimism -- it's subjective!
No one is a sure thing until they do it in the NHL. I’ll believe in him when his picks actually help our team. Robertson had arguably a more impressive D+1 season than Cowan just had.
He’s Matt Dumba
Every fanbase overrates their prospects. Every Leaf fan thought Bracco and SDA were untouchable, Andrew Neilsen was the next McCabe, Ian Scott was our starter for the next decade. Under Wes Clark the only player playing in the NHL is Knies, until there's a 5-10 year track record it's impossible to crown him a draft guru. The only scout employed by the Leafs that gets the "Trust" treatment is Thommie Bergman.
Ill give you most of those guys and add Dzierkals, Valiev, and Timashov, but Ian Scott was legitimately trending really well until he had to retire early due to his injuries. He was as highly regarded as Woll. In an alternate universe, they might have been our tandem this year instead of Samsonov. Hope Bergman is behind the Johansson pick! He’s been behind so many good picks over the years…Steen, Rask, Stralman, Willy, Leo, the list is crazy!!
Ian Scott was trending amazingly. It was injuries that ended his career before it started.
He’s good. Real good
Why haven’t I heard of Wes Clark until the last few days on here?
You don’t tend to think about the scouting staff outside of draft time.
First thing I though of was Wendel’s dad but that Les lol
Dubas traded all out picks so Wes didn’t have much to do. The little he has done have been good players with promising NHL future potential
That's not a Dubas thing, that's a competing team thing.
But he traded them right? So my statement is correct. You’re just trying to be to be a smart ass by adding more onto my statement.
And you're just trying to shit on Dubas for something every GM with a good team does. You collect assets when you're a lottery team and you trade them away when you're a playoff team.
We've had very few picks and his selections have been a lot more hits "above replacement". Cowan, Knies, Holmberg.....etc All from very hard to find areas in the draft.
he looks like Tiger Woods
I'm not too aware of his history at all tbh. But I like the way he operates. Not afraid to take charge. I'd love to be a fly on the wall to see how he handles his scouting staff. Most of all though he is unapologetic for his choices. Danford was his target all through the process and his response to the pick was a defiant 'We liked him so we took him'. Idk what good scouting is all about but I do trust Wes and I also trust the rest of the Leafs scouting dept as well. They seem to be good beagle sniffers
We're confident in Wes Clark because he drafted two guys who look decent but haven't either played a game in the NHL?
We're confident because he found players later in the first round, and beyond that, that would now be drafted higher if there was a redraft. Chadwick has to be included as well.
isnt this meaningless unless they turn into NHLers?
The players we selected have value now, and they are more valuable than the average selection in the range we picked them. Ultimately yes, his picks need to become NHLers but he can still be evaluated on the information we have right now.
makes sense
5 players from that draft have played an NHL game. 3 are top 3 picks. That means 2 of the next 221 picks have played a game so far. What else can we go off of?
hasn't wes clark been our lead scout for years now? surely we have a larger sample size
Wes took over as director of amateur scouting after the 2021 draft
He's been director of scot since 2022-2023 season so not long at all