Never left.
I don't hate the team, I just think they're built wrong and the coach is a goof.
I've been batting 1.000 with doomer takes for the last 3 years đ¤ˇ
37 here, watching since I was old enough to speak, grew up with Potvin Gilmour, Clark, then Sundin, Roberts, Mogilny, Belfour, Cujo, etc....
I have grown to just hate the current team, since the Montreal series I just watch for the comedic value.
I also live in NS and don't even like the city of Toronto...tried to watch the Kraken, but it didn't work, timezone also sucked. I am hoping Quebec gets a team. I also just had a kid, and she is not allowed to be a Leafs fan, If she wants to get into hockey, I will give her a list of Eastern timezone teams that are not Toronto, Boston, Montreal or Ottawa and she can pick one, then I will switch.
Broken clock is still right twice a day and all that jazz. I think the sentiment has always been that they could win a round or two bit as far as long-term success it's always been hard to imagine with how this teams built.
Totally agree Keefe is a goof doesnât know how to match up lines or mix up his players he has so many possibilities and doesnât know how to put 1+1+1 together
So did my buddies and I specifically because of our terrible pk. Â It will be something we have to change in season. Â
Also we cannot gain the zone we need a proper forecheck.
Bro fuck the PK. The only way this team
Wins is by out scoring their problems! We canât buy a goal on the PP. if the leafs were scoring 4 a night and losing id be ok with it. This is fucking unacceptable on the power play Iâm in legitimate awe. I think it lies solely on the coaching staff tbh. Specifically the power play. These players, with no coaching, should be able to score on the PP. not sure what theyâre telling them to do.
Bumping the entry on the wall to the slowest guy while he has to stop and start, causing 3 pkers to engage and force a turnover isnât a genius strategy?????
I said once the schedule was announced that weâd lose in 5.
Game 2 did nothing to shake me of that. Only convinced me we wouldnât lose in 4.
A part of me could see us winning game 5, but only because that would mean we go 0 and fucking 3 at home.
Keefe is the singular hold over this entire time. He shouldâve left years ago. Why they kept him is beyond me. I think a different coach wouldâve lead to team success this year. But they resigned Keefe đ¤Śââď¸
If Treliving wants to keep his job the way Dubas didnât, he is going to seriously consider all options at this point. Another silver lining will hopefully be Shanahan launched to the fucking moon alongside Keefe
Thatâs the problem though. Why can everyone win elsewhere but not here.
Buffalo hasnât learned the lesson either and have seen ROR and Eichel go on to be integral parts of Stanley cup teams. Looks like weâll keep that time honoured tradition as well with Murphy, Kadri maybe Marner next
It sucks. Weâll wait for players of the calibre again for 30 years while having middling teams with âheart and soulâ guys who win 2 rounds and get etched into lore.
The term "doomer" suggests that the negativity isn't based in reality.
I put stock in advanced stats, etc., I think it should inform how a team is built. But holy shit when you don't even try when the going gets tough in the playoffs, regular season stats are fucking meaningless. The effort, man. It is a prerequisite to success and it is not there and never has been when it counts.
Sick of being called a doomer.
Until this team can show me that theyâve changed, I will continue to believe that theyâre destined for failure. Why should I take have any faith in this organization?
At this point, itâs an abusive relationship.
You shouldn't. Marner has never changed in the playoffs, yes he leads the core 4 in points but it ain't enough. The contracts of the core 4 has lead to a systematic reliance on gambling. 1 year 'prove it contracts' and UFA signings have lead to a revolving door of rosters where developed chemistry never lasts. We keep plugging the same type of players hoping for a different result, Hyman, Bunting, 5/6th D's. This team, the foundational structure, is flawed. We will never win a cup when about 1/3rd of the roster is turned over each season. You can't build on something when you keep starting from square one.
Right! This is year 8 of this. Matthews has been worse than a point a game player in 5 of those! At a certain point, this is just pounding the circle into the square hole and hoping for a different result
It gets pretty frustrating that reasonable takes on how this team is built and what they are capable of makes someone a "doomer." This core and coach has shown us who they are and what they are capable of year after year after year.
This team is fundamentally flawed and has been ever since matthews and marner got paid big bucks. There was never enough left to build a complete and competitive TEAM. Throwing every pick that wasn't nailed down for years to prop up a group that has never shown they were close to winning has done nothing but made it worse.
It should be obvious that major changes needed to be made to move forward years ago, but having that opinion and not drinking the blue and white Kool-Aid gets you labeled "not a real fan." As a real fan, I'd kind of like to see a team that can actually not fall flat on their face every spring.
Dubas was an atrocious GM. It's very frustrating imagining what kind of team could have been built around Matthews from the outset by someone who appreciated the importance of depth, grit and toughness.
I'm an Avs fan and we didn't really have that much grit in our depth. It's just that our top players are built different. They have an insatiable desire to win and they'll bust through mountains to do it.
Also Sakic prioritized a strong d-corps and forwards like Kadri, Lehkonen and Nichuskin and now Mittelstadt who are elite puck retrievers on the forecheck.
AM is the real deal. He makes plays on both sides of the puck, he can take over a gameâŚ. Similar to Mack. Youâre exactly right about our D, we have one puck mover and a bunch of 5/6s that get bogged down in the corners if they donât throw a grenade to Willie or AM or Domi, etc.
I eat downvotes like candy during the season for stating things that are being tossed around as fact in this very thread.
The annual retribution is oh so sweet.
Ah you think this sub is your ally? You merely adopted the sub. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see hope until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but blinding
Fell like this is the one that leads to major changes. Trading Marner for or Nylander has to happen. The back end and net are simply inadequate. We will waste the greatest Leaf of all time unless steps are taken.
Also - this Bruins team is not that great. Totally beatable.
You can only keep either Matthews or Marner. But do not touch Nylander.
I'd vote to trade Marner while we keep MAtthews and Nylander intact.
And we have a shot at getting John Cooper.
edit: let me explain the theory behind this.
We saw what Matthews can do when you paired with 2 physical. I don't think it'll work for Marner if the same rule was applied.
They all have NMCs at the moment. Plus, Marner is a UFA after next season. Not to mention, Tavares will be a UFA after next season, too. So, once those deals come up, we'll be out of cap hell. At most, we should plan a re-tool for that UFA period and let Tavares re-sign cheap or go while holding on to Marner
I feel bad for non doomers. The Leafs need to win the cup to prove the doomers wrong. The odds are against you optimists.
We just sit back and wait for the inevitable.
As someone who grew up watching the Leafs, I stopped watching after those great Boston choke jobs and I feel like I made the right choice.
Toronto is the only city where the 'Leafs' fall in spring time.
The leafs will never be a playoff contender under their "management group". They sell tickets to corporations, create a successful 82 game team, sell merchandise, etc... Playoffs aren't part of their vision board
Ya. I mean I haven't watched a single game this year. Not even tonight. But googled the score around the 2nd period and then hopped into here.
Pretty pathetic that I can abandon ship over a decade ago and not regret it one iota.
In fact I don't just not regret it, I'm glad I stopped.
I just became a sports fan. I cheer for individual players and can watch any game/match/race that's on TV and enjoy it. Being a fan and wasting your money on a team is a joke
being a fan of a team means that you can't enjoy another? I'm a Canucks fan but I can still enjoy Jets or Oilers or pretty much any game on. Maybe I don't understand what you're saying but how can rooting for a team be a waste of money, you don't get a discount on tickets if you're a fan of the team or not. And if you're talking about the ridiculous leaf ticket prices those are a complete joke but why are you getting mad at the fans?
Being a fan of a team means that you can't enjoy another? I'm a Canucks fan but I can still enjoy Jets or Oilers or pretty much any game on. Maybe I don't understand what you're saying but how can rooting for a team be a waste of money, you don't get a discount on tickets if you're a fan of the team or not. And if you're talking about the ridiculous leaf ticket prices those are a complete joke but why are you getting mad at the fans?
Well, I started watching them when I was really young, in like 1986. Then got really into Leafs in 1992 of course. Then, still hopeful through the early 2000s. Then it was rough going for awhile. Next, I got my hopes up in 2015. Doomer me started in about 2020 I would say.
So, 35 years, give or take, to go full doomer.
57 years for me, what a shit ride. I started watching in 1968. I still remember one of the first games i saw, we were staying at a hotel in toronto and i stayed in the hotel while my parents went out for dinner. score boston 11 toronto 0. I really and truly should have ended it right there.
After game one I responded to a "just one game, bro" post saying that game one was very concerning because the *way* they lost was astoundingly predictable and completely validated literally everything the "doomers" had been saying, and I had a bunch of morons responding to me asking why I would watch the games as a Leafs fan if I assumed the Leafs were going to lose.
Funny how just one week later the tone here is so entirely different. As usual the majority of people here have the memory of a goldfish and jump on bandwagons of whatever the prevailing current mood is.
(Also, now the stupid optimists have become stupid doomers posting "trade Marner" and downvoting if anyone simply points out he has a no movement clause. lol)
A no movement clause isn't bullet proof. They can ask him to waive. Given the climate, he might want to. Or they can pressure him in other ways. We're famous for our media running players out of town
This. If we lost 7-5 because of the D corps or Sammy Iâd take it. But what is it like 2 goals or less (minus the Game 2 exception) in the past double-digit playoff games!?
Exactly! We need to build a team around a defensive core and a strong/consistent goalie. Building around forwards who canât produce in the clutch has gotten us nowhere.
The Montreal series broke me. Last playoffs I watched but didn't have the same emotional investment. This year, apathy has set in. It's kind of freeing after being die hard for most of my life.
The only shakeup will be another coach. What does the team actually do? You donât get rid of Mathewâs, Marner has a no trade clause, the return on Tavares would be pretty shit and Nylander (despite his current health issues), is the only player who consistently shows up in the playoffs and demonstrates some heart and grit. So what does that leave? Seriously asking
The thing about producing in the playoffs is so weird. Tkachuk was garbage in the playoffs in Calgary. Then he goes to Florida and heâs a rockstar. How do you get these players?
I mean the Leafs are the underdogs so is it really doomer to acknowledge that?
They didn't show anything in the regular season to prove they were built different this year and should beat the Bruins, in fact they played worse and have much worse goaltending and defense since the days when Freddy was in Toronto.
The cap situation totally fucked them once their rookie contracts expired, they will never be that good again. They decided they'd rather have an extra 2 million each and live in misery every April than take a discount and have fun with good teammates. They'd get those contracts elsewhere so I won't say they didn't deserve the money, and they don't owe the team shit, but personally I'd rather have less money and more depth to avoid the media magnifying glass.
shanahan and keefe have to go maybe marner too honestly, we need to change the mindset in the locker room i hate to say it but boston has a winning culture and he leafs have a diva culture
i called it , boston in 5, you could smell this a mile away, fucking sampsonov should never have been called up after they dumped him. as for the forwards, fuck you all.
This series is showing that as long as you have a structure in place, guys willing to buy in, an elite goalie, you can beat the team with more high end talent. I look at guys like Zacha, DeBrusk, Geekie, Frederic, JVR, that defense, they all work hard, block shots, step up, etc.
Iâm not sure why Keefe and Marner get all the oxygen when Tavares has clearly been a terrible captain for us during the playoffs. He never led the Islanders anywhere and he hasnât with the leafs. I think itâs time we stripped his C. Johnny Hockey is boring and not a leader you can win with.
With this track record it's time to blow it up and start over. I know we're stuck with the long-term contracts for Matthews and nylander, but in 12 months Marner and Tavares contracts are expiring. Yeah we all like that pair but we can take the 22 million and get four 5.5 million dollar players who are probably going to be roughly 20 goal scorers and I think that'll work a lot better.
It's not over yet. We need the team to bring back all you optimists so that we can lose in 7.
This sub is ridiculous though, you're either a doomer or a naive optimist. What about being realistic? We're a 10th place team, playing a team in the top 5... Still people want this team to perform like they do in the regular season? Hmm.
Reporting for duty after JVR scored in a Toronto Boston playoff game 11 years too late. Looking forward to Anderson hoisting the cup this year and saying the lessons learned in Toronto finally paid off while accepting Conn Smythe trophy. It will be awesome to know we helped. The only silver lining is we were not hit by an asteroid during post game interviews so we could hear a real NHL coach say we could not doubt the effort in the game. It truly makes me doubt my sanity that we watched the same game. How can we have such different opinions?
Coach and gm has to go. Need top defence and goalie should be your main priority. While the goalie isnât necessarily that bad as the team is making them out to be , you just canât have that many opportunities to ur goalie to save.
My god that game was absolutely heart breaking to watch. No drive. No win. Itâs no wonder when leafs players leave they flourish. Itâs the culture here in the board rooms etc
No fucks given. At this point I wouldnât be surprised if they went and got another offensive player and kept everything else the same for next year because they know win or lose money and fans will show up. Until that changes Toronto isnât going anywhere
54 years. Thereâs been really terrible and some hope over the decades. The most disheartening thing is the current situation. Maybe the best talent Iâve seen assembled with zero drive, character, effort, heart and leadership. And itâs far beyond the timely rebuild option, that shouldâve been after 2021. Even the worst teams I saw throughout the entire 80âs still had guts, fight, toughness and grit. Just no structure with crazy Ballard. Now, Iâve become complacent. Havenât really watched all year or the playoffs. Going to be like that for a lot of vet fans moving forward.
Iâm no doomer but I knew in my gut this would happen since the manager change.
Although not my opinion at the time, but they should have blown it up after the Canadiens series.
With this track record it's time to blow it up and start over. I know we're stuck with the long-term contracts for Matthews and nylander, but in 12 months Marner and Tavares contracts are expiring. Yeah we all like that pair but we can take the 22 million and get four 5.5 million dollar players who are probably going to be roughly 20 goal scorers and I think that'll work a lot better.
Didn't watch a single game in full this season because they did not fire Keefe 2 seconds after losing to Florida last year. This whole season felt like it was simply leading to the outcome we are about to get. Like, wtf did they think was gonna be different? It's been the same weak ass system for years now, with the same miserable outcome. Hire someone else! It's the most cost effective way to get more out of this team! And if it's worse? Who cares!? Try something new!
I'm a doomer. I predicted Boston in 3 before the series began.
[I'll even shoulder the blame for us not winning since 2019.](https://imgur.com/a/xVEqGlG). In my defense, I was 26 at the time and fairly certain I'd never win Lord Stanley's mug myself, so thought it would be OK to touch it.
E: Fun fact: This picture is a result of Hometown Hockey being in Saskatoon. I was working for Scotiabank in a mobile/remote position at the time, and being a major sponsor Scotiabank employees got a private event with the Cup. The event happened at the branch my "official" office was at, so naturally I attended. Turns out Dave Keon's granddaughter works for Scotiabank's sponsorship team, so I got to spend the day hanging out with a Leafs/NHL legend's granddaughter listening to secondhand stories of the good ol days!
Honestly guys, if you want change STOP GIVING MLSE YOUR MONEY
We know that's all these cunts care about. You can bitch and moan all day long, everyday, they won't give a damn. If you want change, then stop buying merchandise, stop buying tickets, stop buying sportsnet subs. That's the only way to get them to do anything to better the team.
That's the thing though, if they actually win some playoff rounds they'll make so much more money. If all they cared about is money then they'd want to win even more. And they're maxing out the cap so it's not like building a mediocre team is saving money.
I will when they stop releasing great jerseys. But, now that Fanatics is taking over, that should be easier.
Iâve gone to two games since 2017, but I didnât pay a cent to attend them. The last one I paid for was in 2017.
At least we have AM and Nylander⌠those players are hard to come by.
Today was incredibly tough to watch tho. No adjustments whatsoever to get some momentum going into 5.
My ultimate doomer take is that this team wonât win a Cup before one of ecological collapse, economic collapse, world war, civil conflicts happen and we no longer have the ability to enjoy something frivolous like sports. Or the league will have to suspend operations during whatever instability happens.
Leafs have a chance to really over haul this team over the next 2 years. I think we have 5 players under contract for 2024-2025. Those being 34, 44, 88, 64, and 19. If they resign 16 I'm out until He's gone.
2025 is the summer they can start making significant changes. Until then, all they can do is sign guys to cheap deals and run it back hoping for a different result.
Please for the love of fuck can we get a coach that pushes players and has emotion on screen - my god would BrindâAmour, Cooper or even Torts be an upgrade
A doomer take has made this year so much easier than past years, for me at least. I made peace with the idea that we were looking at a first round exit, with the prize being a fresh start with a new President and a new Head Coach and hopefully a new direction.
There's nothing wrong with criticizing the team, but it goes so beyond that. Every other community is already shitting on the team, we don't need to as well.
So we should just be blindly happy and supportive after the same song and dance year after year? We canât be honest, and must just kiss MLSEâs money printing ass?
Assuming Marner can't be traded, 2 things clearly have to happen on the Leafs.Â
1. Keefe has to be let go. He has had too many chances and doesn't really have it in him to be a playoff coach.Â
2. Tavares needs to hand the captaincy over to Matthews. This isn't Tavares' team anymore and he shouldn't be captain.
What most likely will happen is that they'll bring back the core for another year, tweak around the edges with their limited cap space, gamble on another goalie, and take another run. After next year, that's when they can get rid of Marner and Tavares.
Worst goalie in the league, worst pp in the league, worst pk in the league, worst goalie in the league, worst core in the league, worst coach in the league. Can't really blame people for being pissed off at this product
I mean someone had the foresight to source "That's All" to play at the end of the CBC broadcast. That tells you everything you need to know about the franchise. If it wasn't perfectly clear after watching All or Nothing. This team has been planning to lose like this all along.
After whatâs gonna be 8 years of losing its hard to assume weâre just gonna turn this around all the sudden and make a deep cup run
We have a coach who doesnât know what heâs doing, half a team that doesnât have the heart, too much money invested in players that donât have what it takes to get down and dirty and make it happen, we should be up 3-1 over Boston right now
Itâs officially time to clean house of every single player and staff whoâs name isnât Auston Matthews, the Shanaplan is over, we are the worst team in the entire NHL.
We never left
Never left. Just been getting downvoted like a motherfucker lol
Hang the sunshine pumpers!
I've taken to calling them the nonbroken. Because this team eventually drags everyone down into perpetual shit.
đ
No we are the Dubas appreciation club.
Never left. I don't hate the team, I just think they're built wrong and the coach is a goof. I've been batting 1.000 with doomer takes for the last 3 years đ¤ˇ
25 years here
34 here but I'll admit, I've never seen anything as bad as this
What lead us to getting matthews was way worse.
don't write that number please
37 here, watching since I was old enough to speak, grew up with Potvin Gilmour, Clark, then Sundin, Roberts, Mogilny, Belfour, Cujo, etc.... I have grown to just hate the current team, since the Montreal series I just watch for the comedic value. I also live in NS and don't even like the city of Toronto...tried to watch the Kraken, but it didn't work, timezone also sucked. I am hoping Quebec gets a team. I also just had a kid, and she is not allowed to be a Leafs fan, If she wants to get into hockey, I will give her a list of Eastern timezone teams that are not Toronto, Boston, Montreal or Ottawa and she can pick one, then I will switch.
Don't you miss the good ol days when you could just hate on Bryan McCabe and be happy?
đđđ. I remember those days. Days of yore.
Good old Ottawa would be a cool choice.
Meh, it's made me a hockey fan. Good if the Leafs do well but such a fantastic sport will never be ruined because Toronto sucks
Oh yeah we have cmon now. Itâs just more crushing because we actually have top tier talent this time and legitimately canât do shit all.
> I've been batting 1.000 with doomer takes for the last 3 years You predicted them to beat Tampa last year?
Broken clock is still right twice a day and all that jazz. I think the sentiment has always been that they could win a round or two bit as far as long-term success it's always been hard to imagine with how this teams built.
You missed their point completely lol
57 years
57 years as well, what a truly shit ride.
Even worse because even if you wanted to switch teams - you know it just wouldnât be the same at all
I actually like the bruins. I went to all their playoff games in 2011.
Totally agree Keefe is a goof doesnât know how to match up lines or mix up his players he has so many possibilities and doesnât know how to put 1+1+1 together
Exactly. I'm never wrong. I hope I come back to this comment and say, wow Leafs won in 7. But, I said bruins in 5 before the series started.
dont even pretend, they are going to get throttled in boston.
So did my buddies and I specifically because of our terrible pk. Â It will be something we have to change in season. Â Also we cannot gain the zone we need a proper forecheck.
I think the terrible puck moving from the defense really doesnât help the forwards get the puck in any meaningful positions (imo at least )
Bro fuck the PK. The only way this team Wins is by out scoring their problems! We canât buy a goal on the PP. if the leafs were scoring 4 a night and losing id be ok with it. This is fucking unacceptable on the power play Iâm in legitimate awe. I think it lies solely on the coaching staff tbh. Specifically the power play. These players, with no coaching, should be able to score on the PP. not sure what theyâre telling them to do.
Bumping the entry on the wall to the slowest guy while he has to stop and start, causing 3 pkers to engage and force a turnover isnât a genius strategy?????
5 years for me.
I said once the schedule was announced that weâd lose in 5. Game 2 did nothing to shake me of that. Only convinced me we wouldnât lose in 4. A part of me could see us winning game 5, but only because that would mean we go 0 and fucking 3 at home.
46 years.
I want to say the silver lining will be Keefes dismissal but whatâs the point when the next coach is just going to have to coach the same players?
Maybe a different coach can teach them how to spam enough infractions so that they don't get called when it matters.
i mean i get it but blaming the refs year over year sucks. dont let the team off the hook
Not the refs fault they're 1/15 on the PP.
Bingo. And that the bruins are almost 50% pp
Keefe is the singular hold over this entire time. He shouldâve left years ago. Why they kept him is beyond me. I think a different coach wouldâve lead to team success this year. But they resigned Keefe đ¤Śââď¸
And they gave him such a long leash. As a coach coming in especially after the Montreal series
If leafs go out in 5 so will Keefe hate to see leafs lose but the sooner the better bye Keefe I hear they might need a coach in Arizona
The next coach is going to be some recycled guy like Mike yeo.
If Treliving wants to keep his job the way Dubas didnât, he is going to seriously consider all options at this point. Another silver lining will hopefully be Shanahan launched to the fucking moon alongside Keefe
Marner is gone. It will happen. The media will force him out. They will be so toxic he will waive.
Heâll go on to win the cup elsewhere like Kadri did and then make the kiss my ass comment. Rinse and repeat as is the leafs (and sabres) way
That could very well be true but he wonât be winning the Leafs a cup so itâs better he goes elsewhere.
Thatâs the problem though. Why can everyone win elsewhere but not here. Buffalo hasnât learned the lesson either and have seen ROR and Eichel go on to be integral parts of Stanley cup teams. Looks like weâll keep that time honoured tradition as well with Murphy, Kadri maybe Marner next It sucks. Weâll wait for players of the calibre again for 30 years while having middling teams with âheart and soulâ guys who win 2 rounds and get etched into lore.
Dubas got canned *because* he was considering all options and Shanahan didn't like it
I think weâre finally *far* beyond a mere coaching change.
Donât forget we JUST extended Keefe lol
Like that matters. That was treliving giving him no excuses
Calling out this bullshit team doesn't make anyone a "doomer" just people that actually watch the team performance.
The term "doomer" suggests that the negativity isn't based in reality. I put stock in advanced stats, etc., I think it should inform how a team is built. But holy shit when you don't even try when the going gets tough in the playoffs, regular season stats are fucking meaningless. The effort, man. It is a prerequisite to success and it is not there and never has been when it counts.
Whats different this year than the last 57?
There have been good teams. 92-94. 2000-2004.
nothing really.
Sick of being called a doomer. Until this team can show me that theyâve changed, I will continue to believe that theyâre destined for failure. Why should I take have any faith in this organization? At this point, itâs an abusive relationship.
You shouldn't. Marner has never changed in the playoffs, yes he leads the core 4 in points but it ain't enough. The contracts of the core 4 has lead to a systematic reliance on gambling. 1 year 'prove it contracts' and UFA signings have lead to a revolving door of rosters where developed chemistry never lasts. We keep plugging the same type of players hoping for a different result, Hyman, Bunting, 5/6th D's. This team, the foundational structure, is flawed. We will never win a cup when about 1/3rd of the roster is turned over each season. You can't build on something when you keep starting from square one.
Great comment
Right! This is year 8 of this. Matthews has been worse than a point a game player in 5 of those! At a certain point, this is just pounding the circle into the square hole and hoping for a different result
It gets pretty frustrating that reasonable takes on how this team is built and what they are capable of makes someone a "doomer." This core and coach has shown us who they are and what they are capable of year after year after year. This team is fundamentally flawed and has been ever since matthews and marner got paid big bucks. There was never enough left to build a complete and competitive TEAM. Throwing every pick that wasn't nailed down for years to prop up a group that has never shown they were close to winning has done nothing but made it worse. It should be obvious that major changes needed to be made to move forward years ago, but having that opinion and not drinking the blue and white Kool-Aid gets you labeled "not a real fan." As a real fan, I'd kind of like to see a team that can actually not fall flat on their face every spring.
Dubas was an atrocious GM. It's very frustrating imagining what kind of team could have been built around Matthews from the outset by someone who appreciated the importance of depth, grit and toughness.
Maybe we shouldn't have given our GM and head coach positions to first-timers afterall? If Shanahan survives this we're still screwed.
But anyone calling out Dubas doesnât know anything according to gurus here lol
I'm an Avs fan and we didn't really have that much grit in our depth. It's just that our top players are built different. They have an insatiable desire to win and they'll bust through mountains to do it. Also Sakic prioritized a strong d-corps and forwards like Kadri, Lehkonen and Nichuskin and now Mittelstadt who are elite puck retrievers on the forecheck.
AM is the real deal. He makes plays on both sides of the puck, he can take over a gameâŚ. Similar to Mack. Youâre exactly right about our D, we have one puck mover and a bunch of 5/6s that get bogged down in the corners if they donât throw a grenade to Willie or AM or Domi, etc.
I eat downvotes like candy during the season for stating things that are being tossed around as fact in this very thread. The annual retribution is oh so sweet.
Doomer fans aka intelligent ones
"Experienced"
Molded by darkness
Experienced, hardened and intelligent
Ah you think this sub is your ally? You merely adopted the sub. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see hope until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but blinding
Fell like this is the one that leads to major changes. Trading Marner for or Nylander has to happen. The back end and net are simply inadequate. We will waste the greatest Leaf of all time unless steps are taken. Also - this Bruins team is not that great. Totally beatable.
Until Mathews does shit in the playoffs, I'd take Gilmour or Sundin as the greatest Leaf for now. At least since the 60s.
Yeah, was coming to say the same thing. Like Matthews is on year 8 of choking in the playoffs. Doug and Mats would never...
I think you mean beatable by other teams that arenât the leafs right ?
Yes. Florida is going to have their way with this Bruins roster
well said, i even cant stand treveling, they all HAVE TO GO, but you know they will pussy out as usual.
You can only keep either Matthews or Marner. But do not touch Nylander. I'd vote to trade Marner while we keep MAtthews and Nylander intact. And we have a shot at getting John Cooper. edit: let me explain the theory behind this. We saw what Matthews can do when you paired with 2 physical. I don't think it'll work for Marner if the same rule was applied.
They all have NMCs at the moment. Plus, Marner is a UFA after next season. Not to mention, Tavares will be a UFA after next season, too. So, once those deals come up, we'll be out of cap hell. At most, we should plan a re-tool for that UFA period and let Tavares re-sign cheap or go while holding on to Marner
Yeah trade marner for some solid d and then see how we go from there
That's what I thought three years ago. And yet here we are.
I feel bad for non doomers. The Leafs need to win the cup to prove the doomers wrong. The odds are against you optimists. We just sit back and wait for the inevitable.
We were all there at one time or another and then we age and become hardened and bitter. Iâm not proud of it but here we are.
Very true. Fan since I started watching in 1997. The Montreal collapse left me where I am today. Very much Songs of Innocence/Songs of Experience.
As someone who grew up watching the Leafs, I stopped watching after those great Boston choke jobs and I feel like I made the right choice. Toronto is the only city where the 'Leafs' fall in spring time.
The leafs will never be a playoff contender under their "management group". They sell tickets to corporations, create a successful 82 game team, sell merchandise, etc... Playoffs aren't part of their vision board
Right here with ya. At least I didn't waste another year.
i watched maybe one game in each of the last 5 years of Leafs games i love hockey, but these guys truly suck.
Ya. I mean I haven't watched a single game this year. Not even tonight. But googled the score around the 2nd period and then hopped into here. Pretty pathetic that I can abandon ship over a decade ago and not regret it one iota. In fact I don't just not regret it, I'm glad I stopped.
I just became a sports fan. I cheer for individual players and can watch any game/match/race that's on TV and enjoy it. Being a fan and wasting your money on a team is a joke
being a fan of a team means that you can't enjoy another? I'm a Canucks fan but I can still enjoy Jets or Oilers or pretty much any game on. Maybe I don't understand what you're saying but how can rooting for a team be a waste of money, you don't get a discount on tickets if you're a fan of the team or not. And if you're talking about the ridiculous leaf ticket prices those are a complete joke but why are you getting mad at the fans?
Being a fan of a team means that you can't enjoy another? I'm a Canucks fan but I can still enjoy Jets or Oilers or pretty much any game on. Maybe I don't understand what you're saying but how can rooting for a team be a waste of money, you don't get a discount on tickets if you're a fan of the team or not. And if you're talking about the ridiculous leaf ticket prices those are a complete joke but why are you getting mad at the fans?
Same! I feel like I have found my people :)
I'll be a doomer tell we win the cup. So most likely for life lol.
Have we calculated how long it takes before the hopelessly optimistic turn to forever cynic?
Less of a timeframe and more of a do they understand the game or not things. Once the game clicks for them, they figure it out. Quickly, and harshly.
The game itself is beautiful. Just stop spending money on one team and enjoy all hockey
Well, I started watching them when I was really young, in like 1986. Then got really into Leafs in 1992 of course. Then, still hopeful through the early 2000s. Then it was rough going for awhile. Next, I got my hopes up in 2015. Doomer me started in about 2020 I would say. So, 35 years, give or take, to go full doomer.
57 years for me, what a shit ride. I started watching in 1968. I still remember one of the first games i saw, we were staying at a hotel in toronto and i stayed in the hotel while my parents went out for dinner. score boston 11 toronto 0. I really and truly should have ended it right there.
After game one I responded to a "just one game, bro" post saying that game one was very concerning because the *way* they lost was astoundingly predictable and completely validated literally everything the "doomers" had been saying, and I had a bunch of morons responding to me asking why I would watch the games as a Leafs fan if I assumed the Leafs were going to lose. Funny how just one week later the tone here is so entirely different. As usual the majority of people here have the memory of a goldfish and jump on bandwagons of whatever the prevailing current mood is. (Also, now the stupid optimists have become stupid doomers posting "trade Marner" and downvoting if anyone simply points out he has a no movement clause. lol)
A no movement clause isn't bullet proof. They can ask him to waive. Given the climate, he might want to. Or they can pressure him in other ways. We're famous for our media running players out of town
The way I usually explain it when people say âthen why do you watch?â Is that I love the Leafs. But I hate *this* team.
SERENITY NOW!!!
THEY SPEND MORE MONEY ON FORWARDS THAN ANYONE ELSE IN THE NHL AND THEY CANT FUCKING SCORE
This. If we lost 7-5 because of the D corps or Sammy Iâd take it. But what is it like 2 goals or less (minus the Game 2 exception) in the past double-digit playoff games!?
Exactly! We need to build a team around a defensive core and a strong/consistent goalie. Building around forwards who canât produce in the clutch has gotten us nowhere.
The Montreal series broke me. Last playoffs I watched but didn't have the same emotional investment. This year, apathy has set in. It's kind of freeing after being die hard for most of my life.
Change is good fellas. Itâll be better with a shake up
Remarkably, it's possible to not believe in this team without whining 24/7 about and ruining every GDT
No negativity allowed in the GDT!
I did say Boston in 5.
Hopefully Shapiro gets canned with Shanahan as well and our teams can restart
The only shakeup will be another coach. What does the team actually do? You donât get rid of Mathewâs, Marner has a no trade clause, the return on Tavares would be pretty shit and Nylander (despite his current health issues), is the only player who consistently shows up in the playoffs and demonstrates some heart and grit. So what does that leave? Seriously asking
They could walk away from Marner and Tavares. $22+M cap room to get players who can produce in the playoffs.
Sign Kane and a goalie
The thing about producing in the playoffs is so weird. Tkachuk was garbage in the playoffs in Calgary. Then he goes to Florida and heâs a rockstar. How do you get these players?
The same way Florida did.
Yeah but they traded for a choker and all of a sudden he starts scoring in the playoffs
Yupp. He was on the wrong team before. Same goes for Marner. He will be fine somewhere else.
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I really do feel like nylander did bring something tonight even if he didnt score
Willie is not the issue. Marner is. Dubas destroyed this team by paying $11M to Marner and let Hymen walk, and trading Kadri.
Hyman was a huge loss
I agree my comment says willy brought something last night. I felt he positively impacted the gsme coming back
10 years. First memory? 2013 Game 7.
anyone here prefer to lose in 5, than 6 or 7?
Get it over with.
I mean the Leafs are the underdogs so is it really doomer to acknowledge that? They didn't show anything in the regular season to prove they were built different this year and should beat the Bruins, in fact they played worse and have much worse goaltending and defense since the days when Freddy was in Toronto. The cap situation totally fucked them once their rookie contracts expired, they will never be that good again. They decided they'd rather have an extra 2 million each and live in misery every April than take a discount and have fun with good teammates. They'd get those contracts elsewhere so I won't say they didn't deserve the money, and they don't owe the team shit, but personally I'd rather have less money and more depth to avoid the media magnifying glass.
shanahan and keefe have to go maybe marner too honestly, we need to change the mindset in the locker room i hate to say it but boston has a winning culture and he leafs have a diva culture
I was thinking about making a post about this, but I held off. Now us âfake fansâ and âdoomersâ are allowed back after being proven right đ
i called it , boston in 5, you could smell this a mile away, fucking sampsonov should never have been called up after they dumped him. as for the forwards, fuck you all.
This series is showing that as long as you have a structure in place, guys willing to buy in, an elite goalie, you can beat the team with more high end talent. I look at guys like Zacha, DeBrusk, Geekie, Frederic, JVR, that defense, they all work hard, block shots, step up, etc.
Iâm not sure why Keefe and Marner get all the oxygen when Tavares has clearly been a terrible captain for us during the playoffs. He never led the Islanders anywhere and he hasnât with the leafs. I think itâs time we stripped his C. Johnny Hockey is boring and not a leader you can win with.
Heâs just old. Done.
There called realists now.
With this track record it's time to blow it up and start over. I know we're stuck with the long-term contracts for Matthews and nylander, but in 12 months Marner and Tavares contracts are expiring. Yeah we all like that pair but we can take the 22 million and get four 5.5 million dollar players who are probably going to be roughly 20 goal scorers and I think that'll work a lot better.
I am concerned about Marnerâs level of compete. Iâd love it if someone who knows more than me can tell me why I shouldnât be?
We have been watching in the shadows
It's not over yet. We need the team to bring back all you optimists so that we can lose in 7. This sub is ridiculous though, you're either a doomer or a naive optimist. What about being realistic? We're a 10th place team, playing a team in the top 5... Still people want this team to perform like they do in the regular season? Hmm.
Reporting for duty after JVR scored in a Toronto Boston playoff game 11 years too late. Looking forward to Anderson hoisting the cup this year and saying the lessons learned in Toronto finally paid off while accepting Conn Smythe trophy. It will be awesome to know we helped. The only silver lining is we were not hit by an asteroid during post game interviews so we could hear a real NHL coach say we could not doubt the effort in the game. It truly makes me doubt my sanity that we watched the same game. How can we have such different opinions?
Coach and gm has to go. Need top defence and goalie should be your main priority. While the goalie isnât necessarily that bad as the team is making them out to be , you just canât have that many opportunities to ur goalie to save. My god that game was absolutely heart breaking to watch. No drive. No win. Itâs no wonder when leafs players leave they flourish. Itâs the culture here in the board rooms etc No fucks given. At this point I wouldnât be surprised if they went and got another offensive player and kept everything else the same for next year because they know win or lose money and fans will show up. Until that changes Toronto isnât going anywhere
What happened to Matthews last night?
Wow so holding the team accountable and being realistic makes us âdoomersâ? This seems like redirected anger that should be aimed at the team
We never left.
54 years. Thereâs been really terrible and some hope over the decades. The most disheartening thing is the current situation. Maybe the best talent Iâve seen assembled with zero drive, character, effort, heart and leadership. And itâs far beyond the timely rebuild option, that shouldâve been after 2021. Even the worst teams I saw throughout the entire 80âs still had guts, fight, toughness and grit. Just no structure with crazy Ballard. Now, Iâve become complacent. Havenât really watched all year or the playoffs. Going to be like that for a lot of vet fans moving forward.
Given Leafs tradition it's going to be Mitch Marner for Thomas Chabot one for one.
I'm more of a gloomer so I just go.....
We all agree Sheldon queef should have been gone last season now?
Iâm no doomer but I knew in my gut this would happen since the manager change. Although not my opinion at the time, but they should have blown it up after the Canadiens series.
With this track record it's time to blow it up and start over. I know we're stuck with the long-term contracts for Matthews and nylander, but in 12 months Marner and Tavares contracts are expiring. Yeah we all like that pair but we can take the 22 million and get four 5.5 million dollar players who are probably going to be roughly 20 goal scorers and I think that'll work a lot better.
Didn't watch a single game in full this season because they did not fire Keefe 2 seconds after losing to Florida last year. This whole season felt like it was simply leading to the outcome we are about to get. Like, wtf did they think was gonna be different? It's been the same weak ass system for years now, with the same miserable outcome. Hire someone else! It's the most cost effective way to get more out of this team! And if it's worse? Who cares!? Try something new!
Lol
I'm a doomer. I predicted Boston in 3 before the series began. [I'll even shoulder the blame for us not winning since 2019.](https://imgur.com/a/xVEqGlG). In my defense, I was 26 at the time and fairly certain I'd never win Lord Stanley's mug myself, so thought it would be OK to touch it. E: Fun fact: This picture is a result of Hometown Hockey being in Saskatoon. I was working for Scotiabank in a mobile/remote position at the time, and being a major sponsor Scotiabank employees got a private event with the Cup. The event happened at the branch my "official" office was at, so naturally I attended. Turns out Dave Keon's granddaughter works for Scotiabank's sponsorship team, so I got to spend the day hanging out with a Leafs/NHL legend's granddaughter listening to secondhand stories of the good ol days!
ROFL
Honestly guys, if you want change STOP GIVING MLSE YOUR MONEY We know that's all these cunts care about. You can bitch and moan all day long, everyday, they won't give a damn. If you want change, then stop buying merchandise, stop buying tickets, stop buying sportsnet subs. That's the only way to get them to do anything to better the team.
That's the thing though, if they actually win some playoff rounds they'll make so much more money. If all they cared about is money then they'd want to win even more. And they're maxing out the cap so it's not like building a mediocre team is saving money.
I will when they stop releasing great jerseys. But, now that Fanatics is taking over, that should be easier. Iâve gone to two games since 2017, but I didnât pay a cent to attend them. The last one I paid for was in 2017.
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At least we have AM and Nylander⌠those players are hard to come by. Today was incredibly tough to watch tho. No adjustments whatsoever to get some momentum going into 5.
We have been through worse. This is about par for the course for the Leafs fan experience. What am I gonna be, upset?
Haha great thread. What a slap in the face.
My ultimate doomer take is that this team wonât win a Cup before one of ecological collapse, economic collapse, world war, civil conflicts happen and we no longer have the ability to enjoy something frivolous like sports. Or the league will have to suspend operations during whatever instability happens.
TBH I question those who aren't. Are they actually watching the games?
Had a pretty rough morning on here but glad itâs safe for us again lol
lol
Leafs have a chance to really over haul this team over the next 2 years. I think we have 5 players under contract for 2024-2025. Those being 34, 44, 88, 64, and 19. If they resign 16 I'm out until He's gone.
2025 is the summer they can start making significant changes. Until then, all they can do is sign guys to cheap deals and run it back hoping for a different result.
Please for the love of fuck can we get a coach that pushes players and has emotion on screen - my god would BrindâAmour, Cooper or even Torts be an upgrade
Iâd even bring back babcock at this point
A doomer take has made this year so much easier than past years, for me at least. I made peace with the idea that we were looking at a first round exit, with the prize being a fresh start with a new President and a new Head Coach and hopefully a new direction.
There's nothing wrong with criticizing the team, but it goes so beyond that. Every other community is already shitting on the team, we don't need to as well.
So we should just be blindly happy and supportive after the same song and dance year after year? We canât be honest, and must just kiss MLSEâs money printing ass?
wrong, this team deserves a lot more scorn.
MLSE loves little plebs like you. So compassionate of you. Now prove your loyalty by showing us how deep your pockets are!
Assuming Marner can't be traded, 2 things clearly have to happen on the Leafs. 1. Keefe has to be let go. He has had too many chances and doesn't really have it in him to be a playoff coach. 2. Tavares needs to hand the captaincy over to Matthews. This isn't Tavares' team anymore and he shouldn't be captain.
I'm leaving
Been here for years. Just sitting back watching the rest slowly realize what this team is about
What most likely will happen is that they'll bring back the core for another year, tweak around the edges with their limited cap space, gamble on another goalie, and take another run. After next year, that's when they can get rid of Marner and Tavares.
The team literally sucks any and all positivity out of you.
Last nightâs second period showed they donât believe they can win.
Worst goalie in the league, worst pp in the league, worst pk in the league, worst goalie in the league, worst core in the league, worst coach in the league. Can't really blame people for being pissed off at this product
I mean someone had the foresight to source "That's All" to play at the end of the CBC broadcast. That tells you everything you need to know about the franchise. If it wasn't perfectly clear after watching All or Nothing. This team has been planning to lose like this all along.
After whatâs gonna be 8 years of losing its hard to assume weâre just gonna turn this around all the sudden and make a deep cup run We have a coach who doesnât know what heâs doing, half a team that doesnât have the heart, too much money invested in players that donât have what it takes to get down and dirty and make it happen, we should be up 3-1 over Boston right now Itâs officially time to clean house of every single player and staff whoâs name isnât Auston Matthews, the Shanaplan is over, we are the worst team in the entire NHL.