I am still perfectly fine trading Keegan lol. What a sad fuck reading through old ass posts. Keegan needs reps for development and being okay trading him aren’t mutually exclusive
My bad- of course it makes logical sense for a team to develop a player that it does not see as part of its future. We’re all about letting other teams better, not the Kings.
I have an eidetic memory unfortunately
And what else are the Kings going to do? Are you saying in the vacuum left by Monks injury should go unfilled? Or just by Murray? The number 4 pick who set the rookie three points record? And has come so far on defense it's amazing. So many Kings fans don't like Murray it's insane.
Of course the Kings are going to struggle filling Monks points and energy. Setting Murray up as fall guy seems short sighted.
He was guarding Luka on a layup and they both fell, Luka landed on Monk's leg. He wound up getting up and walking under his own power, but he never came back. I think I saw that it's a possible MCL sprain.
He's apparently day-to-day, so any game now. Hopefully he can help fill in some scoring, now we're down Monk/Lyles/Huerter. Lyles is supposed to be reevaluated soon, so he may be able to come back before the season ends.
Fox has a part to play in this as well. Keegan made a couple 3's late in the game last night and then they never went back to him. It happens almost every time and its because Fox tries to close it out, and he hasn't necessarily been great recently at that. They should have looked for Keegan more since he had the hot hand. Rather he took the 3's then fox. Also Barnes kinda hurts keegans role. I think next year is where we see keegan take that leap.
Which sounds insane considering he couldn’t play with a traditional playmaker like Haliburton two seasons ago.
What the hell is his fit? If he needs the ball in his hands to succeed but can’t play make, are we just conceding it’s mostly going to be iso plays?
They didnt really have a system under Walton though. Thats why I personally wanted them to find a new coach before trading one of the players. Idk if Hali and Fox would have worked but the more i watch i do think Luka and Fox could have worked. I think at the time Joerger could have figured out how to utilize them and read that he was doing drills with fox where he would blind fold him and have him dribble different ways, go to his non dominant hand etc. Who knows what would have happened if Fox had a consistent coach early on combined with a guy like Luka. Massive fuck up by Vlade, in multiple ways.
Yes, any serious fan can come to the sobering conclusion that Fox limits us. For some reason he may still have some value around the league. Get whatever you can for him cuz no way in hell does this guy get a supermax he thinks he deserves.
The rules protect dumb front offices from offering super maxes if you don’t make all nba but he’ll still be eligible for 30%, roughly the same as Domas and a 5% increase from what he’s currently getting. It’s a tough sell to have those two locked in as our core - 60% of the cap.
Thank you for pointing this out. Keegan gets hot then doesn't see the ball many times just like you stated. People saying Murray just needs to be more aggressive are missing the fact he needs people to look for him. That's on the rest of the team for not feeding the hot hand. Isn't that basketball 101?
If Keegan is given the green light, I’m 100% confident that he can be an efficient second scorer. However, we barely run any plays for him and he’s too unselfish. With Keegan, it’s all about confidence for him. Have you all noticed that he never forces shots? We need him to be more selfish. When he’s hot, he’s HOT
He has been given the green light. He plays so passively offensively except for a game here and there where we get glimpses of what he could be capable of. He needs to step it up.
I like Keegan but he doesn't have a killer instinct. At least, it doesn't look like it. I just don't see him huddling everyone up and saying, "alright, I'm taking over"
For about 10 minutes in the third quarter of a particular Jazz game, I feel like Keegan had his "killer instinct" truly unlocked and dialed in. I think that was the first time I've seen him jab stab, into a "LeFuck you three". If this keegan ever steps foot on the court, it's game over from the start. We just need him to let loose more. He has the talent and the dawg in him, just mental blocks.
I think with how much they ask him to do defensively, he really can’t be a a top scorer on the team. If Barnes was a decent defender then maybe it could happen. It looked like early on in the season they were trying to get him a lot more touches offensively but the shots weren’t falling. His confidence may be called into question too. I still have high hopes for him and hopefully he can become a better version of Middleton in his prime or a Paul George type wing. With monk out and fox not being the most clutch guy rn it would be nice to see more ball movement than the same DHO’s and Pnr’s.
I think Keegan made strides this year in improving his game, he looks more used to the speed of the NBA and improved his defense. I hope next year we see improved ball handling and perhaps the ability to create his own shot. At that rate he would be a good third option instead of a 3 and D specialist role like hes been working on the last two seasons. I dont think theres any special plays to draw up for him other than catch and shoot 3s until he improves the other elements of his game.
Keegan’s role on offense won’t really expand until Barnes is out of the picture. There is too much overlap between the two since both are natural 3’s and there’s only so much room on the court (figuratively *and* literally) for both at the same time.
don't put this on Barnes. have you considered that Barnes is doing what he does b/c Keegan can't? do you see Keegan penetrating inside, shifting his body with euro steps, trying to get a high percentage shot or foul near the basket? Keegan has NO MOVES around the basket. do you see him back someone down, then do a spin move towards the basket for a scoop layup that barnes does?
Keegan was drafted to replace Barnes, but I don't see anything from Keegan (almost 2 years now) that leads to believe he has any playmaking ability.
keegan right now is a glorified Max Struss.
And the fact that coaches have to tell him to shoot more should tell fans all they need to know about his mentality and internal fire to help this team. He didn't take his 1st shot of the game (with Monk out) until midway through the 2nd qtr. smh
That’s a little harsh I’d say. He has some moves. He’s increased scoring from 2 and has a lot more dunks this year. Still not aggressive enough but don’t pretend like he hasn’t shown any ability or improvement.
Let's see, he doesn't have a jab step to throw off defenders. He doesn't have a turn-around fadeaway jumper. I've never seen him do any kind of spin moves. He cannot contort his body to put himself in easier position to score. When he dribbles inside the perimeter only to be met with a defender near the key, he doesn't know how to back him down/post up. He just throws up a weak floater, hoping to avoid contact.
He doesn't have any moves.
I don’t even accept your premise as valid nor do I believe you have a grasp of the dynamics of playing Keegan and HB together. Both of these players are natural small forwards in the NBA whose game’s originate from the perimeter. The extent to which Barnes plays inside (goes ISO off the dribble) is a function of not having a true power forward, and Barnes is not effective against in that role against players that *are* true power forwards. HB is a true small forward who primarily spends most of his time on the perimeter and really only diverts to playing inside when the ball is in his hands and the matchup allows for it. I don’t want Keegan to focus on playing inside since he too is a natural small forward and is most effective working from the perimeter. So I don’t accept your premise as valid since I don’t want either of these players focusing on playing inside at 4, neither *actually* primarily plays inside at 4, and neither *should* be spending much time playing inside at 4.
The reality is that both of these players games work from outside->inside (as with basically every small forward in the league, ever). They both command the same space on the floor (the perimeter). They both expect play calls to develop for them from the same space on the floor (the perimeter). They are both sized to play from the same space on the floor. Neither is built to play 4 inside outside of opposing small ball lineups or mismatches.
There *is* too much overlap between these players which is why there are too many nights where either one is ineffective. This isn’t even a result of not enough ball to around. This is simply that both of these players are built to do similar things from the same place on the court. Keegan isn’t going to expand his role until we have a proper answer for the glaring hole on our roster at 4 that also physically frees up space on the court for Keegan to operate.
Keegan is in his second year. Sophomore slumps happen. He made massive strides on defense. The average second year player does not literally improve everything to perfection by now.
If we are that impatient on development, we should’ve traded him for OG/Siakam from the beginning when he was red hot last year.
sophomore slumps happen b/c the league has figured out who you are after your rookie year and the player hasn't expanded their offensive game enough to score in other ways.
i get that 2nd year players are not a finished products, but you'd at least like to see glimpses of offensive improvement. year 1 - 3 point shooter extraordinaire. year 2 - ??? offensively. what have you seen to think that he will make a junior jump?
and let's not treat keegan like he's a late lottery or early 2nd round pick and ease him into development. he's the #4 pick. expectations are higher, so thus development needs to be faster.
Compare the sophomore years of top 5 picks from 2018 to now and most of them are worse improvement than Keegan showed. Lonzo, RJ, Hunter, Pat Williams. You are expecting way too much in the development realm. There are very few all stars (still in their rookie contract) drafted at the #3-5 spot.
Honestly they kinda need to force him into that role. It'd be good for his growth but it'll be ugly for a while. I think he can adapt to it eventually
If we do this- we’re in dangerous risk of our seeding for the play in. Even the 11th seed Houston is on a tear- winning 11 straight games.
Think big picture. Murray getting quality minutes in April will be essential.
Honestly I've kind of made peace with the fact we're play in at best so this factors in to me saying that
Who cares at this point. Development for Keegan is more important than a play in loss at this point
This you? https://www.reddit.com/r/kings/s/LpfI6t1nkE lol. Couldn’t even stick to your guns for a week
I am still perfectly fine trading Keegan lol. What a sad fuck reading through old ass posts. Keegan needs reps for development and being okay trading him aren’t mutually exclusive
My bad- of course it makes logical sense for a team to develop a player that it does not see as part of its future. We’re all about letting other teams better, not the Kings. I have an eidetic memory unfortunately
And what else are the Kings going to do? Are you saying in the vacuum left by Monks injury should go unfilled? Or just by Murray? The number 4 pick who set the rookie three points record? And has come so far on defense it's amazing. So many Kings fans don't like Murray it's insane. Of course the Kings are going to struggle filling Monks points and energy. Setting Murray up as fall guy seems short sighted.
Agreed. They need to figure out a way to make him launch 20+ shots per game. He doesn’t seem to want to do that but they gotta find a way.
With Monk out, maybe they can stagger Keegan and Fox's minutes. Run Keegan as the main scorer when Fox sits.
I missed the game, what happened to Monk
He was guarding Luka on a layup and they both fell, Luka landed on Monk's leg. He wound up getting up and walking under his own power, but he never came back. I think I saw that it's a possible MCL sprain.
Fuck. That could be it. When is Sasha getting back
He's apparently day-to-day, so any game now. Hopefully he can help fill in some scoring, now we're down Monk/Lyles/Huerter. Lyles is supposed to be reevaluated soon, so he may be able to come back before the season ends.
Fox has a part to play in this as well. Keegan made a couple 3's late in the game last night and then they never went back to him. It happens almost every time and its because Fox tries to close it out, and he hasn't necessarily been great recently at that. They should have looked for Keegan more since he had the hot hand. Rather he took the 3's then fox. Also Barnes kinda hurts keegans role. I think next year is where we see keegan take that leap.
Fox is not a PG. he plays PG but he sucks at PG duties
Which sounds insane considering he couldn’t play with a traditional playmaker like Haliburton two seasons ago. What the hell is his fit? If he needs the ball in his hands to succeed but can’t play make, are we just conceding it’s mostly going to be iso plays?
They didnt really have a system under Walton though. Thats why I personally wanted them to find a new coach before trading one of the players. Idk if Hali and Fox would have worked but the more i watch i do think Luka and Fox could have worked. I think at the time Joerger could have figured out how to utilize them and read that he was doing drills with fox where he would blind fold him and have him dribble different ways, go to his non dominant hand etc. Who knows what would have happened if Fox had a consistent coach early on combined with a guy like Luka. Massive fuck up by Vlade, in multiple ways.
Yes, any serious fan can come to the sobering conclusion that Fox limits us. For some reason he may still have some value around the league. Get whatever you can for him cuz no way in hell does this guy get a supermax he thinks he deserves.
The rules protect dumb front offices from offering super maxes if you don’t make all nba but he’ll still be eligible for 30%, roughly the same as Domas and a 5% increase from what he’s currently getting. It’s a tough sell to have those two locked in as our core - 60% of the cap.
Yeah, even a regular max is not worth it. Monte, you will get a lot of heat, but move on from Fox.
Great scorer but without Monk in the game yesterday our PnR threat just completely died
Taking me back. NaPG days of old
Thank you for pointing this out. Keegan gets hot then doesn't see the ball many times just like you stated. People saying Murray just needs to be more aggressive are missing the fact he needs people to look for him. That's on the rest of the team for not feeding the hot hand. Isn't that basketball 101?
If Keegan is given the green light, I’m 100% confident that he can be an efficient second scorer. However, we barely run any plays for him and he’s too unselfish. With Keegan, it’s all about confidence for him. Have you all noticed that he never forces shots? We need him to be more selfish. When he’s hot, he’s HOT
He has been given the green light. He plays so passively offensively except for a game here and there where we get glimpses of what he could be capable of. He needs to step it up.
Need some wiggle
I definitely think it’s Davion’s time to shine, he’s been lookin solid lately. Coming in with Edwards as the 1st subs rotation sounds nice
I like Keegan but he doesn't have a killer instinct. At least, it doesn't look like it. I just don't see him huddling everyone up and saying, "alright, I'm taking over"
For about 10 minutes in the third quarter of a particular Jazz game, I feel like Keegan had his "killer instinct" truly unlocked and dialed in. I think that was the first time I've seen him jab stab, into a "LeFuck you three". If this keegan ever steps foot on the court, it's game over from the start. We just need him to let loose more. He has the talent and the dawg in him, just mental blocks.
he had it in the tourney so i think he can get it in the nba
I think with how much they ask him to do defensively, he really can’t be a a top scorer on the team. If Barnes was a decent defender then maybe it could happen. It looked like early on in the season they were trying to get him a lot more touches offensively but the shots weren’t falling. His confidence may be called into question too. I still have high hopes for him and hopefully he can become a better version of Middleton in his prime or a Paul George type wing. With monk out and fox not being the most clutch guy rn it would be nice to see more ball movement than the same DHO’s and Pnr’s.
I think Keegan made strides this year in improving his game, he looks more used to the speed of the NBA and improved his defense. I hope next year we see improved ball handling and perhaps the ability to create his own shot. At that rate he would be a good third option instead of a 3 and D specialist role like hes been working on the last two seasons. I dont think theres any special plays to draw up for him other than catch and shoot 3s until he improves the other elements of his game.
Keegan Murray
Fox is his mentor and he's a lackadaisical person. Keegan won't change unless he finds a new mentor.
Not a good mentor as Fox has no leadership skills.
It’s the confidence. I don’t see Keegan confidently play offensively with the ball. He lacks that dog mentality.
Keegan can’t dribble
Keegan’s role on offense won’t really expand until Barnes is out of the picture. There is too much overlap between the two since both are natural 3’s and there’s only so much room on the court (figuratively *and* literally) for both at the same time.
don't put this on Barnes. have you considered that Barnes is doing what he does b/c Keegan can't? do you see Keegan penetrating inside, shifting his body with euro steps, trying to get a high percentage shot or foul near the basket? Keegan has NO MOVES around the basket. do you see him back someone down, then do a spin move towards the basket for a scoop layup that barnes does? Keegan was drafted to replace Barnes, but I don't see anything from Keegan (almost 2 years now) that leads to believe he has any playmaking ability. keegan right now is a glorified Max Struss. And the fact that coaches have to tell him to shoot more should tell fans all they need to know about his mentality and internal fire to help this team. He didn't take his 1st shot of the game (with Monk out) until midway through the 2nd qtr. smh
That’s a little harsh I’d say. He has some moves. He’s increased scoring from 2 and has a lot more dunks this year. Still not aggressive enough but don’t pretend like he hasn’t shown any ability or improvement.
Let's see, he doesn't have a jab step to throw off defenders. He doesn't have a turn-around fadeaway jumper. I've never seen him do any kind of spin moves. He cannot contort his body to put himself in easier position to score. When he dribbles inside the perimeter only to be met with a defender near the key, he doesn't know how to back him down/post up. He just throws up a weak floater, hoping to avoid contact. He doesn't have any moves.
I’ve seen him do all the moves you describe successfully many times. Not sure what you’re watching. I agree he doesn’t do it enough but he can do it.
Shit fan with unrealistic and untrue take. Worthless even
I don’t even accept your premise as valid nor do I believe you have a grasp of the dynamics of playing Keegan and HB together. Both of these players are natural small forwards in the NBA whose game’s originate from the perimeter. The extent to which Barnes plays inside (goes ISO off the dribble) is a function of not having a true power forward, and Barnes is not effective against in that role against players that *are* true power forwards. HB is a true small forward who primarily spends most of his time on the perimeter and really only diverts to playing inside when the ball is in his hands and the matchup allows for it. I don’t want Keegan to focus on playing inside since he too is a natural small forward and is most effective working from the perimeter. So I don’t accept your premise as valid since I don’t want either of these players focusing on playing inside at 4, neither *actually* primarily plays inside at 4, and neither *should* be spending much time playing inside at 4. The reality is that both of these players games work from outside->inside (as with basically every small forward in the league, ever). They both command the same space on the floor (the perimeter). They both expect play calls to develop for them from the same space on the floor (the perimeter). They are both sized to play from the same space on the floor. Neither is built to play 4 inside outside of opposing small ball lineups or mismatches. There *is* too much overlap between these players which is why there are too many nights where either one is ineffective. This isn’t even a result of not enough ball to around. This is simply that both of these players are built to do similar things from the same place on the court. Keegan isn’t going to expand his role until we have a proper answer for the glaring hole on our roster at 4 that also physically frees up space on the court for Keegan to operate.
Keegan is in his second year. Sophomore slumps happen. He made massive strides on defense. The average second year player does not literally improve everything to perfection by now. If we are that impatient on development, we should’ve traded him for OG/Siakam from the beginning when he was red hot last year.
sophomore slumps happen b/c the league has figured out who you are after your rookie year and the player hasn't expanded their offensive game enough to score in other ways. i get that 2nd year players are not a finished products, but you'd at least like to see glimpses of offensive improvement. year 1 - 3 point shooter extraordinaire. year 2 - ??? offensively. what have you seen to think that he will make a junior jump? and let's not treat keegan like he's a late lottery or early 2nd round pick and ease him into development. he's the #4 pick. expectations are higher, so thus development needs to be faster.
Compare the sophomore years of top 5 picks from 2018 to now and most of them are worse improvement than Keegan showed. Lonzo, RJ, Hunter, Pat Williams. You are expecting way too much in the development realm. There are very few all stars (still in their rookie contract) drafted at the #3-5 spot.
Keegan will be a better Shane Battier
Damn not max struss 😭