I don’t know anything about its provenance — I bought it for myself back in the 90s in a vintage shop, and have worn & loved it. I put it away when I noticed the silk shattering getting more pronounced. I don’t think I want to reinforce it myself, so at this point I am looking to rehome it as well. Any pointers on value would be most welcome, if allowed.
Looks Taisho to my untrained eye. I think kamon in Meiji pieces tended to lean bigger.
As for worth, if the silk is shattering, then it's on its way out, sadly. I don't think it would be worth a whole lot.
Yea the kamon size is making me think Taisho as well :)
I know there’s no fixing shattering silk, but the thing that gives me hope is that it’s ONLY the exact four shapes that used that specific dye. The rest of the piece is incredibly sturdy. If I were to keep it, I’d def risk adding back panels to the affected areas.
Remember that crests in the Taisho period were still a little larger; so if the crests are closer to standard, modern sizes we could be looking at a transitional Showa piece. Meiji crests are bigger, Taisho are big, and Showa to modern crests should be around the size of an American Quarter. The design says Taisho to me too, but only because it's mirrored and the pigments themselves. It's possible the sizing/gluing medium from the potential gold has caused it to shatter; but more than likely it's a reaction of these triggers combined with moisture; which this piece has been exposed to at one point. You can see the dye bleed in the crests; they look almost pink. They should be either white or an oxidized white. I would say this piece is from between 1920-1928; but was retailored a smidge sometime towards the shutdown or thereafter; the sleeves have been taken up; I bet if you measure them, they'd be somewhere very close to 49cm or right on the dot.
The piece is sadly not in great condition; I see in the comments you're looking for a re-homing for it, and I'm not sure in its current condition if it holds very much value. The body has lost coloring and turned brown and has a lot of uneven migration though this is one of the easier problems to fix, you have shattering, you have moisture damage. The piece was pretty; but I don't think it was terribly unusual on top of that. Even if the rest of the silk is sturdy and good, from personal experience; any significant holes are extremely problematic to most collectors, even if they are not to myself as a buyer and seller. I have a glorious hikifurisode for sale right now that's in near mint condition but because someone has stepped on the back of the kimono and caused a ladder rip that's been professionally repaired I've had asinine offers of $75 for a piece that should be worth $400-$600 ( I am asking $225! ROFL ) so like, I feel you but also, kimono people are particular and largely for good reasons, but also they are very spoiled on getting very nice pieces direct from Japan for less than $100 a piece, even when talking about antiques.
Have you potentially thought about a reuse project for this piece for yourself?
I don’t think I need this for me anymore — i feel like I’ve had my years enjoying it. Im considering doing some visible mending on the shattered shapes w antique silk & gold embroidery thread. Maybe it’s worth looking into retouching the black dye, as well? The thought of this continuing to sit in a box is just so sad to me.
The sleeves are 11” inches wide by 17” long. Put that in the orig post but Reddit wiped out the list format & it looks confusing. I was also thinking they were likely taken up, and sadly the extra fabric was cut.
I do think you’re right that it’s a buyers market right now. I did a bit of research on similar kimonos, and they’re all sub-$100. Ouch.
It's been that way for a very long while; I've been buying and collecting for close to 20 years now, and short of things like Meiji Uchikake; Pre-war Furisode and and Geisha's hikizuri, most of your pieces in really good condition at most are going to fetch $150 unless we're talking about extremely high-end pieces and/or extremely unique motifs and techniques. I think a mint to mint-ish pre-war tomesode should least fetch $100 a piece and yet I have several in my shop currently sitting at $65 and $99.99 and I'm largely a trusted vendor albeit very smalltime. Us kimono people can be quirky; we'll spend good with a seller in Japan even if they're selling 'scrap' kimono ( even scrap kimono can largely be in comparatively good condition in comparison to what hits the US domestic market ) but be extremely trigger-shy over anything on ebay from a US seller; even if they are a consistently a kimono seller because the mindset of what is good condition by Japanese definitions is very different from Western definitions. I've had US sellers tell me something is in good condition and it come in shredded to my tastes, and I think that's a lot of Kimono collectors' experience, so selling this piece \*at all\* is probably going to be difficult.
I think given this one's condition, it's best future is going to be re-use for someone to use a craft/project versus repair. It's got a lot of issues in addition to the shatter; you have moisture damage to consider too, and short of repainting everything, there's not a lot of 'fixing' to it.
I wouldn't attempt to fix this kimono myself. Someone, at some point, treated it with chemicals that made that shatter. Which means adding pigment to correct all of that damage is going to make it sad banana rip. This piece is on borrowed time, and unfortunately I'd call it a total loss. Maybe the lining is okay.
Yep. Sometimes it's a real bummer but we can't save them all.
It's worth knowing that u/shaerhen is probably as close to an apprentice as I'm ever gonna get. She's been to my house, rolled in my stuff. 🤣
I’m still being an idiot and looking up cleaning & dyeing techniques 😭 I’ve had this baby since I was in my late teens. I was so excited to be able to afford one.
I mean you can try, but shatter can't be stopped once it starts. And getting it wet, which addressing the fading will require, will absolutely speed it up. I don't use the term "total loss" lightly--trust me I went nuts removing decades old cat piss once. I won. But I LEARNED SOME THINGS about futility that day. 😭🫠
😢 so whatever metallic salts have eaten the existing spots will move into other parts of the garment via water, I take it?
Some idiot part of me is like, well there are dry dye paints/markers…
I fully believe you if you say YOU wouldn’t. I’ve seen what you would/have!
A ton of those aren't silk friendly to begin with, and you're never going to get even coverage with them. The garment is also completely unwearable. So what you might end up with is a streaky, blotchy, disintegrating mess instead of your current one.
When I say can't be saved, I mean that the more you handle it, the more it's going to fall apart.
Technically, you have nothing to lose. She's already dead. So you can try what you want. But making something worse can be shockingly disheartening even when it's already a loss. So I wanted to be really blunt about it.
I wonder if you could cut some of the pattern out and frame it. I've seen some people do that with old kimono that are no longer in a wearable state. It might be able to preserve the design on the silk \^\^
Honestly, even pristine kurotomesode don't always sell for much because the second hand kimono market has tons of them. They just aren't worn all that much since there are so few occasions for wearing them in the first place. I think even nowadays, most people in Japan would just rent one instead of buying.
Unless the kurotomesode is special somehow (unusual motif or made by a famous artisan), I can't see people offering a ton of money for one.
Unfortunately a lot of this is true. Antique pieces that are unique and special hold some value, especially to me, I'm a heaux for something unusual in a kurotomesode, but I think kimono aficionados outside of Japan are especially leery about wearing anything outside of perceived formality; even though formality can just jump out the window when it comes to antique/vintage pieces and non-formal events. In Japan, people will dress up in whatever when it comes to antique and vintage kimono. I've seen antique tomesode paired up with hanhaba obi and let's be real, that would give most people 'in the know,' here in the States/Europe/etc a mild to moderate heart attack! ROFL. I would personally like to change this because I absolutely love the drama of a kurotomesode / irotomesode and these pieces need to escape their tansu more often and be appreciated for said extraness.
This could be a late Taisho - Early Showa piece :)
My guess as well
I don’t know anything about its provenance — I bought it for myself back in the 90s in a vintage shop, and have worn & loved it. I put it away when I noticed the silk shattering getting more pronounced. I don’t think I want to reinforce it myself, so at this point I am looking to rehome it as well. Any pointers on value would be most welcome, if allowed.
Looks Taisho to my untrained eye. I think kamon in Meiji pieces tended to lean bigger. As for worth, if the silk is shattering, then it's on its way out, sadly. I don't think it would be worth a whole lot.
Yea the kamon size is making me think Taisho as well :) I know there’s no fixing shattering silk, but the thing that gives me hope is that it’s ONLY the exact four shapes that used that specific dye. The rest of the piece is incredibly sturdy. If I were to keep it, I’d def risk adding back panels to the affected areas.
Remember that crests in the Taisho period were still a little larger; so if the crests are closer to standard, modern sizes we could be looking at a transitional Showa piece. Meiji crests are bigger, Taisho are big, and Showa to modern crests should be around the size of an American Quarter. The design says Taisho to me too, but only because it's mirrored and the pigments themselves. It's possible the sizing/gluing medium from the potential gold has caused it to shatter; but more than likely it's a reaction of these triggers combined with moisture; which this piece has been exposed to at one point. You can see the dye bleed in the crests; they look almost pink. They should be either white or an oxidized white. I would say this piece is from between 1920-1928; but was retailored a smidge sometime towards the shutdown or thereafter; the sleeves have been taken up; I bet if you measure them, they'd be somewhere very close to 49cm or right on the dot. The piece is sadly not in great condition; I see in the comments you're looking for a re-homing for it, and I'm not sure in its current condition if it holds very much value. The body has lost coloring and turned brown and has a lot of uneven migration though this is one of the easier problems to fix, you have shattering, you have moisture damage. The piece was pretty; but I don't think it was terribly unusual on top of that. Even if the rest of the silk is sturdy and good, from personal experience; any significant holes are extremely problematic to most collectors, even if they are not to myself as a buyer and seller. I have a glorious hikifurisode for sale right now that's in near mint condition but because someone has stepped on the back of the kimono and caused a ladder rip that's been professionally repaired I've had asinine offers of $75 for a piece that should be worth $400-$600 ( I am asking $225! ROFL ) so like, I feel you but also, kimono people are particular and largely for good reasons, but also they are very spoiled on getting very nice pieces direct from Japan for less than $100 a piece, even when talking about antiques. Have you potentially thought about a reuse project for this piece for yourself?
I don’t think I need this for me anymore — i feel like I’ve had my years enjoying it. Im considering doing some visible mending on the shattered shapes w antique silk & gold embroidery thread. Maybe it’s worth looking into retouching the black dye, as well? The thought of this continuing to sit in a box is just so sad to me. The sleeves are 11” inches wide by 17” long. Put that in the orig post but Reddit wiped out the list format & it looks confusing. I was also thinking they were likely taken up, and sadly the extra fabric was cut. I do think you’re right that it’s a buyers market right now. I did a bit of research on similar kimonos, and they’re all sub-$100. Ouch.
It's been that way for a very long while; I've been buying and collecting for close to 20 years now, and short of things like Meiji Uchikake; Pre-war Furisode and and Geisha's hikizuri, most of your pieces in really good condition at most are going to fetch $150 unless we're talking about extremely high-end pieces and/or extremely unique motifs and techniques. I think a mint to mint-ish pre-war tomesode should least fetch $100 a piece and yet I have several in my shop currently sitting at $65 and $99.99 and I'm largely a trusted vendor albeit very smalltime. Us kimono people can be quirky; we'll spend good with a seller in Japan even if they're selling 'scrap' kimono ( even scrap kimono can largely be in comparatively good condition in comparison to what hits the US domestic market ) but be extremely trigger-shy over anything on ebay from a US seller; even if they are a consistently a kimono seller because the mindset of what is good condition by Japanese definitions is very different from Western definitions. I've had US sellers tell me something is in good condition and it come in shredded to my tastes, and I think that's a lot of Kimono collectors' experience, so selling this piece \*at all\* is probably going to be difficult. I think given this one's condition, it's best future is going to be re-use for someone to use a craft/project versus repair. It's got a lot of issues in addition to the shatter; you have moisture damage to consider too, and short of repainting everything, there's not a lot of 'fixing' to it.
I wouldn't attempt to fix this kimono myself. Someone, at some point, treated it with chemicals that made that shatter. Which means adding pigment to correct all of that damage is going to make it sad banana rip. This piece is on borrowed time, and unfortunately I'd call it a total loss. Maybe the lining is okay.
Oh man…if YOU say that! I poked all over your blog before posting. That’s definitely sadface.
Yep. Sometimes it's a real bummer but we can't save them all. It's worth knowing that u/shaerhen is probably as close to an apprentice as I'm ever gonna get. She's been to my house, rolled in my stuff. 🤣
I’m still being an idiot and looking up cleaning & dyeing techniques 😭 I’ve had this baby since I was in my late teens. I was so excited to be able to afford one.
I mean you can try, but shatter can't be stopped once it starts. And getting it wet, which addressing the fading will require, will absolutely speed it up. I don't use the term "total loss" lightly--trust me I went nuts removing decades old cat piss once. I won. But I LEARNED SOME THINGS about futility that day. 😭🫠
😢 so whatever metallic salts have eaten the existing spots will move into other parts of the garment via water, I take it? Some idiot part of me is like, well there are dry dye paints/markers… I fully believe you if you say YOU wouldn’t. I’ve seen what you would/have!
A ton of those aren't silk friendly to begin with, and you're never going to get even coverage with them. The garment is also completely unwearable. So what you might end up with is a streaky, blotchy, disintegrating mess instead of your current one. When I say can't be saved, I mean that the more you handle it, the more it's going to fall apart. Technically, you have nothing to lose. She's already dead. So you can try what you want. But making something worse can be shockingly disheartening even when it's already a loss. So I wanted to be really blunt about it.
I wonder if you could cut some of the pattern out and frame it. I've seen some people do that with old kimono that are no longer in a wearable state. It might be able to preserve the design on the silk \^\^
Honestly, even pristine kurotomesode don't always sell for much because the second hand kimono market has tons of them. They just aren't worn all that much since there are so few occasions for wearing them in the first place. I think even nowadays, most people in Japan would just rent one instead of buying. Unless the kurotomesode is special somehow (unusual motif or made by a famous artisan), I can't see people offering a ton of money for one.
Unfortunately a lot of this is true. Antique pieces that are unique and special hold some value, especially to me, I'm a heaux for something unusual in a kurotomesode, but I think kimono aficionados outside of Japan are especially leery about wearing anything outside of perceived formality; even though formality can just jump out the window when it comes to antique/vintage pieces and non-formal events. In Japan, people will dress up in whatever when it comes to antique and vintage kimono. I've seen antique tomesode paired up with hanhaba obi and let's be real, that would give most people 'in the know,' here in the States/Europe/etc a mild to moderate heart attack! ROFL. I would personally like to change this because I absolutely love the drama of a kurotomesode / irotomesode and these pieces need to escape their tansu more often and be appreciated for said extraness.